Best WWW Server for High Schools
Tobin Fricke
Hello, all. I am in the position of recommending hardware for an
internet server (www only to begin with) for our high school. We plan
on running Linux or possibly WinNT or OS/2.
I am looking for suggestions for hardware for this server. It must be
fairly inexpensive, prefrebly under $3000.
Thanks,
Tobin Fricke
fri...@roboben.engr.ucdavis.edu
Kyle Dennis
You should be able to buy:
a Pentium 133(maybe even a 166) w/triton chipset & 256 burst cache
32 megs of ram
2gig scsi Baracuda HD
floppy drive
scsi controller
2-4meg video card
17"-20" monitor
for that kind of cash-
If you can't let me know and I'll point you in the right direction. A
great source for hardware is Computer Shopper. I highly reccommend you
pick up the latest issue. (Blow off the Linux and run NT)(I use BSDI and
like it though)
Life's a fish, then you fry.....
... .---.
\ '-....\ ''''''''''''''''€'-...
> _... ( _. _.-' ____
.' ' / /------------/_/-~~ ________________/;;;/ ..
~~' ...-'€'; - - - - - - - - -/...-' /
Kyle Dennis '-._ ;;) - - - - - - - - -.-.._ <
Data Technologies ~~~-\_\~~~~~~~~~~~~\..\ '..
ky...@montanamall.com '~~
Rob Stout
> > Hello, all. I am in the position of recommending hardware for an
> > internet server (www only to begin with) for our high school. We plan
> > on running Linux or possibly WinNT or OS/2.
> >
> > I am looking for suggestions for hardware for this server. It must be
> > fairly inexpensive, prefrebly under $3000.
> 2-4meg video card
> 17"-20" monitor
You actually don't need these for a server, you'd rather use your personal
workstation for administration. For an effecient solution you should most
certainly not run NT: it eats resources _and_ costs about as much as 8 Mb
RAM. Furthermore it disables remote administration.
Apache running on Linux or freeBSD performs very well, for FREE!!
Bye,
Rob.
Jorgen Nilsson
>
> In article <4jfjqf$e...@news.snni.com>, fri...@roboben.engr.ucdavis.edu wrote:
>
> > Hello, all. I am in the position of recommending hardware for an
> > internet server (www only to begin with) for our high school. We plan
> > on running Linux or possibly WinNT or OS/2.
> >
> > I am looking for suggestions for hardware for this server. It must be
> > fairly inexpensive, prefrebly under $3000.
> >
> > Tobin Fricke
> > fri...@roboben.engr.ucdavis.edu
>
> You should be able to buy:
>
> a Pentium 133(maybe even a 166) w/triton chipset & 256 burst cache
> 32 megs of ram
> 2gig scsi Baracuda HD
> floppy drive
> scsi controller
> 17"-20" monitor
>
>
(Blow off the Linux and run NT)(I use BSDI and
I suggest you stay with Linux and run Apache or the NCSA server
on it. Why woould you go for NT where most of the scripts or
programmes cost money, in the UNIX world there is so much for
free. And Linux does a hell of a lot better virtual hosting
than NT do.
/Jorgen
John Lucas
>
>Hello, all. I am in the position of recommending hardware for an
>internet server (www only to begin with) for our high school. We plan
>on running Linux or possibly WinNT or OS/2.
>
>I am looking for suggestions for hardware for this server. It must be
>fairly inexpensive, prefrebly under $3000.
>
In your place I would run FreeBSD or Linux, but then I have experience
administering Unix. For the web server, I would choose Apache or Spinner.
Whoever admins this box will have to be (or become) familiar with the
operating system as well as with TCP/IP networking on whatever platform is
used. What is the computing background of the putative administrators of this
box?
I have no experience with OS/2, but I have (experimentally) run an NT v3.51
server and the FolkWeb WWW server. Nothing "wrong" with it, but coming from a
Unix background here are my objections to this setup:
1. Nearly everything for NT costs money.
2. No effective remote administration (costs mucho bucks).
3. Requires more hardware for same service.
For use with FreeBSD, Linux or WinNT, the hardware would be the same:
1. Intel Motherboard with Triton chipset and fast Pentium
256k (min) L2 cache, AMI BIOS.
2. At least 32MB (16MB min for Unix) EDO Ram
3. Adaptec 2940 PCI SCSI host adapter
4. Sony 4x CD-ROM
5. Seagate Barracuda 2.1GB HD (st32550)
6. HP JetStore 4mm SCSI tape drive.
7. DEC 21041 based PCI ethernet card (SMC EtherPower).
You will probably want to stay with the "narrow" SCSI if you run CD, tape and
HD on the same Host adapter (Adaptec 2940N, Seagate st32550n); run a second
SCSI host adapter and use "wide" SCSI HD (st32550w).
Having the slickest hardware, OS and web software does not guarantee the best
operating web site. It requires people that are familiar (and comfortable)
with the tools.
| John Lucas jlu...@uvi.edu |
| Academic Computing NIC Handle: JL423 |
| University of the Virgin Islands (809) 693-1216 |
| St. Thomas, VI 00802 http://www.uvi.edu/jlucas.html |
Larry Doolittle
: In article <4jfjqf$e...@news.snni.com>, fri...@roboben.engr.ucdavis.edu wrote:
: >
: >Hello, all. I am in the position of recommending hardware for an
: >internet server (www only to begin with) for our high school. We plan
: >on running Linux or possibly WinNT or OS/2.
: >
: >I am looking for suggestions for hardware for this server. It must be
: >fairly inexpensive, prefrebly under $3000.
: In your place I would run FreeBSD or Linux, but then I have experience
: administering Unix. For the web server, I would choose Apache or Spinner.
: Whoever admins this box will have to be (or become) familiar with the
: operating system as well as with TCP/IP networking on whatever platform is
: used. What is the computing background of the putative administrators of this
: box?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
agree agree agree agree agree
: For use with FreeBSD, Linux or WinNT, the hardware would be the same:
: 1. Intel Motherboard with Triton chipset and fast Pentium
: 256k (min) L2 cache, AMI BIOS.
: 2. At least 32MB (16MB min for Unix) EDO Ram
: 3. Adaptec 2940 PCI SCSI host adapter
: 4. Sony 4x CD-ROM
: 5. Seagate Barracuda 2.1GB HD (st32550)
: 6. HP JetStore 4mm SCSI tape drive.
: 7. DEC 21041 based PCI ethernet card (SMC EtherPower).
That is certainly a good way to spend $3000. On the other hand,
there is no problem providing quality web service for half that money.
A fast '486, 8M RAM (no X for a server, remember), NCR SCSI, ATAPI CD-ROM,
1Gig SCSI drive, no tape, and a DEC 21041 based PCI ethernet card
(SMC EtherPower) should cost ... umm ... US$1300 or so, including
12" B&W monitor. Except for big CGI scripts, you probably won't
notice the difference for www service. Practice running this system
will carry over to whatever other hardware you try to use. I do
recommend you stick to PCI and SCSI, otherwise you will tend to
obsolete your hardware too fast as you upgrade. Of course, this
smaller system is probably useless for WinNT, but as other people
have pointed out you can get 8M RAM for the money you would have to
spend on WinNT. WinNT looks like a lose-lose situation from where
I stand.
- Larry Doolittle ldoo...@cebaf.gov
Thomas Vincent
>
> John Lucas (jlu...@uvi.edu) wrote:
> : In article <4jfjqf$e...@news.snni.com>, fri...@roboben.engr.ucdavis.edu wrote:
> : >
> : >Hello, all. I am in the position of recommending hardware for an
> : >internet server (www only to begin with) for our high school. We
Actually, I would look at who is going to end up being the main sysop
for the server. If your just using it for the internet. A Macintosh
makes a great choice. Especially if the person doesn't know how to use
the intracies of Unix. There is nothing more secure then Mac connected
to the internet. Web Star also has a repuation of being the easiest to
maintain and use. As long as your not expecting a Yahoo type load. The
Macintosh makes a fine WWW server. Apple gives massive discounts to
schools, and has many preconfigured solutions. We used one doing WWW as
well as a +300 person mail server. It worked fine. With the addition of
Open Transport, the Macs network speed is supposed to have been
increased four full.
If your expecting to use this server for a internet server, as well as
say a 1,000 plus person mail box I would go with Windows NT. It is
easier to administer then a Unix Box but not as powerfull as say Linux.
IBM is not porting OS/2 to the CHRP Platform. Which probably means that
give it five years, and they will can it. Also I have seen very little
for OS/2 as a WWW platform.
The cheapest solution is BYOB (build your own Box) Linux Box, or a used,
or discounted Apple Macintosh. The Macintosh is my personal
recomendation. Out of all the platforms I have used. It is the most
stable, and easiest to maintain.
Cheers,
Tom
--
Thomas Vincent
ba...@sfbayrun.com
SF Bay Area Running Pages| National HS Track and Field Cross Country
Pages
http://www.sfbayrun.com/ | http://www.sfbayrun.com/scholar/
Sean Harper
> Larry Doolittle wrote:
> >
> > John Lucas (jlu...@uvi.edu) wrote:
> > : In article <4jfjqf$e...@news.snni.com>,
fri...@roboben.engr.ucdavis.edu wrote:
> > : >
> > : >Hello, all. I am in the position of recommending hardware for an
> > : >internet server (www only to begin with) for our high school. We
>
> Actually, I would look at who is going to end up being the main sysop
> for the server. If your just using it for the internet. A Macintosh
> makes a great choice. Especially if the person doesn't know how to use
> the intracies of Unix. There is nothing more secure then Mac connected
> to the internet. Web Star also has a repuation of being the easiest to
> maintain and use. As long as your not expecting a Yahoo type load. The
> Macintosh makes a fine WWW server. Apple gives massive discounts to
> schools, and has many preconfigured solutions. We used one doing WWW as
> well as a +300 person mail server. It worked fine. With the addition of
> Open Transport, the Macs network speed is supposed to have been
> increased four full.
I have had very different experiences. I LOVE the Mac, I have two of
them, I program for them, they are great machines. However, the WGS8150
that my high school uses is completely inadequite. It loses my mail, it
crashes if someone tries to send too large of an attachment. It strips
out the attatchments sent to me. THe web server is slow, writing CGI's
for it is an incredible pain. I have preache UNIX, UNIX, we must have
UNIX. I finally had hope when I found that we would be networking the
other (windows) lab into the all Mac network. Unfortuantly the school
seems to have too much money, they insist that they must spend thousands
on a NT server and a router. Now can't we just run gated on a nice linux
machine and save $$$$$$k? Well, the school doesn't think so. ANyways, I
am being an ass for writing this much. Unix is the best, the only OS to
use for a server.
> If your expecting to use this server for a internet server, as well as
> say a 1,000 plus person mail box I would go with Windows NT. It is
> easier to administer then a Unix Box but not as powerfull as say Linux.
> IBM is not porting OS/2 to the CHRP Platform. Which probably means that
> give it five years, and they will can it. Also I have seen very little
> for OS/2 as a WWW platform.
> The cheapest solution is BYOB (build your own Box) Linux Box, or a used,
> or discounted Apple Macintosh. The Macintosh is my personal
> recomendation. Out of all the platforms I have used. It is the most
> stable, and easiest to maintain.
NONONO! Get a linux box, it will serve you much better. I am no unix
wiz, I've only had my linux computer for 4 months and it only took my 2
hours to set up Apache. For my trouble I get a stable, robust web server
that will not crash.
BTW we have at least one crash a day on our 8150.
> Cheers,
> Tom
Sean
===================================================================
Thomas Vincent
> NONONO! Get a linux box, it will serve you much better. I am no unix
> wiz, I've only had my linux computer for 4 months and it only took my 2
> hours to set up Apache. For my trouble I get a stable, robust web server
> that will not crash.
>
> BTW we have at least one crash a day on our 8150.
That sounds more like a gateway, internet transport of large files
problem. That is one thing I use AOL mail for. I can transport large
(2mb+) files assuring they will arrive at there destination.
As for a Mac server crashing. Well, all I can say is that isn't perfect.
But for a teacher who knows little and wants an easily configurable
solution I would go with a Mac. If I wanted a server to handle four high
schools I would go with Unix. Mac has the lowest tech support costs of
any platform. Also ranks 1 in customer satisfaction and reliablity. Unix
is the no. 1 server on the internet. Macintosh is no. 2. I believe it
all depends on the server load. I wouldn't use a Mac to host over a
thousand mailbox's. But I have hosted 350 over a Localtalk network. For
your sever problems I would say upgrade to 7.5.3 it should eliminate
most if not all problems your having. If the school wants to host the
whole district on one server, I would go with a Unix box. I have heard
Dartmouth hosts 11,000 mailbox's using Blitzmail off of three Next Step
OS Motorola based servers. Preety good wouldn't you say?
George Henry C. Daswani
: In article <316D97...@ix.netcom.com>, runn...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
:
: other (windows) lab into the all Mac network. Unfortuantly the school
: seems to have too much money, they insist that they must spend thousands
: on a NT server and a router. Now can't we just run gated on a nice linux
: machine and save $$$$$$k? Well, the school doesn't think so. ANyways, I
: am being an ass for writing this much. Unix is the best, the only OS to
: use for a server.
IMHO, for a High School that doesn't want to pay for a Full TIME UNIX
administrator, they should go the direction of NT. Especially with the
new Microsoft Exchange Server for mailing. It's quite a nice combination
and makes a good internet/intranet machine. Digital Odyssey networks high
schools and we simply found that NT is the best way to go. We found that
we can make a good internet server even with dialup lines for a high school.
An NT box coupled with an ISDN Router makes a good combination.
As for Linux, all our machines at our site runs under Linux. We don't use
NT machines for our service, but NT is indeed nice as an internet server.
Especially with IIS being free with the package. IIS is a no-brainer to
install compared to Apache.
: > say a 1,000 plus person mail box I would go with Windows NT. It is
: > easier to administer then a Unix Box but not as powerfull as say Linux.
I found NT even more powerfull than Linux in terms of load. But it doesn't
have all the tools needed for our service to make it a good internet
server, (Sendmail, virtual domains and etc) but it does make a good
corporate internet/intranet server. We might push the Caldera Network Desktop
to our customers instead of NT if they want a more flexible machine. We
found that Caldera Network Desktop 1.0 is a nice product. We use a heavily
modified RedHat 3.03 for our servers.
: > The cheapest solution is BYOB (build your own Box) Linux Box, or a used,
: > or discounted Apple Macintosh. The Macintosh is my personal
Actually, it's the cheapest solution in the short term. But if you look at
it in a way of Administration costs and etc, it's not so cheap. Unless
of course you have a few UN*X teacher/administrators around the school.
: hours to set up Apache. For my trouble I get a stable, robust web server
: that will not crash.
We have used Linux extensively at this site, it does crash.
George Daswani
CIO - Digital Odyssey
Carl Joel Kuzmich
Forget all this crap and get a copy of WebStar, it's "free" for
educational institutions and runs on a Mac, which I'm sure you have if
your a school. They have a web site with all the details and their
staff will actually "talk" to you if your from a school!!! I spent an
hour on the phone with their techinical support staff and feel that
every question I asked received a "good" answer.
If you want to see an example of sites running WebStar on a mac go
checkout the BMW site or the PlayBoy site both are using WebStar on
Macs....
You could have your web server up and running in 15-minutes and could
use something as low-end as a 6300 with 8-MB of RAM and be way ahead of
the game.
Think of all the thinks you could do with the money you save !!!!!! :)
In article <4l65jf$6...@holocron.odc.net>, gdas...@odc.net (George
Henry
--
Carl Joel Kuzmich (412) 648-1099 | Love is a better teacher than duty |
University of Pittsburgh | - Albert Einstein |
Office of Medical Education
Pittsburgh, PA 15261
Oori Hasson
in a school environment. We run many CGI's, access Databases,
Use HARVEST Software, use NetForum, all with the NCSA 1.5 .
It hasn't crashed on me yet.
BTW for proxying I use the Harvest cache system which is very
efficient.
Look at
http://www.gilo.jlm.k12.il
--
Oori Hasson. | "Not waking up is probably
System. Webmaster. | one of the main reasons people
http://www.gilo.jlm.k12./~oori | die in their sleep" (Intro to
psychology)