WARNING: The newsgroup [...] is heavily infiltrated by [..] secret service
un6...@genius.embnet.dkfz-heidlebrg.de
"Kirchheimer Stadthorn"! <<<
"The newsgroup soc.culture.yugoslavia is heavily infiltrated
by yugoslavian and
NATO secret service." (23.4.1999)
Watch out what you post: >80% of the messages are posted by
secret service and
only to discover who is enemy by the two oppossing side!
- c - c
honorius
That some posters are not individuals is perfectly evident.So what?
Voices about Internet being monitored by secret services have been
around for years, and they are probably true.But the same can be said
for newspapers, and any other media. Out of contrasting lies truth can
be deducted.
Thomas Berger
unsafe.
Tom
--
******************************************
* Tom Berger
* ber...@architektur.uni-kassel.de
******************************************
* Universität Gh Kassel
* FB Architektur - Entwerfen + CAD
* Henschelstr. 2
* D-34127 Kassel / Germany
******************************************
moniker4tom
Thomas Berger <ber...@architektur.uni-kassel.de> wrote:
> It is necessary to point out that even some anonymizers are quite
> unsafe.
If you are worried about it, the best way is to go through three different
anonymizers, from different neutral countries (finland, swiss, etc). This is
a long-respected counter-intelligence measure. Spy-paranoia has been around
for a long time, as well as the tools to counter it. Info abounds on the web.
Personally, I could care less. I don't know the fear. I enjoy (indeed, demand)
the freedom to ridicule all sides! :-) If you are afraid to speak your mind,
then you have some changes to make in the world.
I hope the spies are listening... gives me a chance to change their minds.
-tom
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Akhkharu
un6...@genius.embnet.dkfz-heidlebrg.de wrote in message
<372450A7...@genius.embnet.dkfz-heidlebrg.de>...
>>>> WARNING: as appeared in leading German newspaper
>"Kirchheimer Stadthorn"! <<<
>
>"The newsgroup soc.culture.yugoslavia is heavily infiltrated
>by yugoslavian and
>NATO secret service." (23.4.1999)
>Watch out what you post: >80% of the messages are posted by
>secret service and
>only to discover who is enemy by the two oppossing side!
So you are saying that the western newspapers _do_ tell the truth.
art
sites
Mar...@webtv.net
Bret
Jonathan Bazemore
> >I hope the spies are listening... gives me a chance to change their minds.
>
> Not unless you pay them.
How much?
amigocabal
un6...@genius.embnet.dkfz-heidlebrg.de wrote:
> >>> WARNING: as appeared in leading German newspaper
> "Kirchheimer Stadthorn"! <<<
>
> "The newsgroup soc.culture.yugoslavia is heavily infiltrated
> by yugoslavian and
> NATO secret service." (23.4.1999)
> Watch out what you post: >80% of the messages are posted by
> secret service and
> only to discover who is enemy by the two oppossing side!
YOU ARE REALLY FULL OF SHIT, OR IS IT SCHEISE, BECAUSE NO MADMAN IN THE WHOLE
BLOODY WORLD WOULD BE SO STUPID AS TO WRITE MORE THAN A 20 MILLION MESSAGES A
DAY ON THIS NET, AND TO READ THEM???? ARE YOU KIDDING!
>
>
--
You can lie to some of the people, all the time, all the people some of
the time, but you can never lie to all the people all the time!
Abraham Lincoln, father of Free America
netpal2u
un6...@genius.embnet.dkfz-heidlebrg.de wrote:
> >>> WARNING: as appeared in leading German newspaper
> "Kirchheimer Stadthorn"! <<<
>
> "The newsgroup soc.culture.yugoslavia is heavily infiltrated
> by yugoslavian and
> NATO secret service." (23.4.1999)
> Watch out what you post: >80% of the messages are posted by
> secret service and
> only to discover who is enemy by the two oppossing side!
>
>
>
Well a good point is that we have the freedom of speech here!
We are not afraid of the NSA..
CLINTON SUCK! (or is it MoniKa?)
and we are in a deep shit... with this stupid Allied farce ..
In Jugoslavia they have also the freedom of speech..
They can also say " CLINTON SUCK " and stop the bombing ;-)
Anyway I wonder when this allied farce is going to end..
We need to be ready when the "real" crisis will start in ASIA.. real soon.
and this stupidity (all this operation) is not going to help to make us more
credible..
P.S. I would be in the "secret service" I would not waste my time here.. I am
still looking for the date of the ground invasion.. and I will not find it
here anyway..
Charlie Chan
"Chips off the Old Chopstick..."
Bodys...@gone.forever
>
> >>> WARNING: as appeared in leading German newspaper
> "Kirchheimer Stadthorn"! <<<
>
> "The newsgroup soc.culture.yugoslavia is heavily infiltrated
> by yugoslavian and NATO secret service." (23.4.1999)
> Watch out what you post: 80% of the messages are posted by
> secret service and only to discover who is enemy by the two
> oppossing side!
And what else is NEW? Them poor slobs have to write what
they are 'told' to write so they already hate all of us
free spirits anyway.
Personally I don't 'give'. We have limited freedom of speech
where I am, but I HAVE heard of one Serb who may have benefitted
from the severest form of 'censure' only because he had not
learned to use mixmaster properly.
--
My opinion is not necessarily shared by any of the people
burried in my back yard, nor does it suffer from political
correctness, that most worrisome of all attributes, nor is
it prejudiced since I indiscriminately attack everything I
hate and espouse what I like without regard for the topic
or the protagonists in the debate.
Thomas Berger
Akhkharu wrote:
>
> So you are saying that the western newspapers _do_ tell the truth.
you are terribly misled. The important thing about western media is that
they are free, and this immediately implies that they never tell the
truth. They are allowed to tell you any lie they like, and they
certainly do.
In western countries every person is responsible to construct its own
truth from watching different media covering the same event. It turned
out that this is a much better way to find the truth than any other way
were the truth is controlled by an authority (be it good or bad).
Anyhow: truth is a very relative thing, and in most cases it has not
very much to do with reality. Truth is a matter of religion, and may be
a result of our perception of reality. The problem is - and any
scientist can confirm this - we don't have the slightest idea what
reality really is and if there is any at all. All we have is our
perception, and this is heavily influenced by the "truth" we already
have.
Don't think that Yugoslavian people have no access to free media - they
have satellite TV, can see TV stations from many different countries,
and have uncensored access to the Internet. So why do they still believe
the absolutely ridiculous propaganda lies from their criminal regime?
Because they face another truth as we do. Being bombed and having the
whole world against them obviosly changes the perception of reality
quite a bit.
Did you get the news from Draskovic last night. He openly told on
Yugoslavian TV that the Yugoslavian people are not told the truth about
what's going on. He agreed to have armed forces (even NATO forces under
UN mandate) in Kosovo. Does he want to commit suicide, or was his
statement in accordance with Milosevic? If so, does Milosevic plan to
sacrifice Draskovic and give him the role of the traitor of the
Yugoslavian people?
Hugh W
Hugh W
On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:40:23 +0200,
un6...@genius.embnet.dkfz-heidlebrg.de wrote:
>>>> WARNING: as appeared in leading German newspaper
>"Kirchheimer Stadthorn"! <<<
>
>"The newsgroup soc.culture.yugoslavia is heavily infiltrated
>by yugoslavian and
>NATO secret service." (23.4.1999)
>Watch out what you post: >80% of the messages are posted by
>secret service and
>only to discover who is enemy by the two oppossing side!
>
>- c - c
>
Akhkharu
Thomas Berger wrote in message
<3725700A...@architektur.uni-kassel.de>...
>
>
>Akhkharu wrote:
>>
>> So you are saying that the western newspapers _do_ tell the truth.
>
>you are terribly misled. The important thing about western media is that
>they are free, and this immediately implies that they never tell the
>truth. They are allowed to tell you any lie they like, and they
>certainly do.
>In western countries every person is responsible to construct its own
>truth from watching different media covering the same event. It turned
>out that this is a much better way to find the truth than any other way
>were the truth is controlled by an authority (be it good or bad).
<snip>
You really misunderstood what I said. It was a sarcastic comment aimed at
those who claim that western media is always lying, but then believe
anything that fits their view. It creates a paradox.
???
: you are terribly misled. The important thing about western media is that
: they are free, and this immediately implies that they never tell the
: truth.
There is no implication--at all. This statement is your construction. In
fact, I'd suggest that the news *has* to be truthful. First, note that I
didn't say it *IS* truthful. Indeed, there will be rare cases
where a lie (typically a fabrication) is told. However, the news media
MUST tell the truth and is compelled to do so by the very economic forces
that you might claim to pollute it. Why? There are immediate and severe
repercussions for being caught in a lie. Period. Would you like to
discuss the money NBC lost when they were caught wiring Trucks with
explosives? In that case, technically they weren't lying; they were just
impatient and wanted a dramatic demonstration of what was otherwise
factual. however, the public felt duped and THEY PAID. BAD.
Being caught in a lie is the death penalty for the career of a western
journalist... whereas it seems to be a sport for Yugoslavian media.
Of course, you MAY be confusing opinion with statement of fact. The
western media has a lot of opinion oriented programs. They ask "experts"
or otherwise relevant people to discuss a current event. Just because
those people are on TV, you shouldn't necessarily believe them. They're
asses aren't on the line like a journalist..
: They are allowed to tell you any lie they like, and they
: certainly do.
They are allowed to say ALMOST anything. Of course, slander can be a
crime. Inciting riots can be a crime. Fraud can be a crime....
Actually, it seems that there are legal reasons for them to watch what
they say--besides the potential economic dangers.
: In western countries every person is responsible to construct its own
: truth from watching different media covering the same event.
You confuse opinion for truth.
: It turned
: out that this is a much better way to find the truth than any other way
: were the truth is controlled by an authority (be it good or bad).
The best way for find truth is to reward the telling of truth... and to
punish the telling of lies.
: Anyhow: truth is a very relative thing, and in most cases it has not
: very much to do with reality.
Bullshit. The truth is the truth. You can have your opinions...but black
is black, white is white. The sun rises to East. Serbian security forces
are burning homes in Kosovo. The truth.
: Truth is a matter of religion, and may be
: a result of our perception of reality.
You confuse faith for truth.
: The problem is - and any
: scientist can confirm this - we don't have the slightest idea what
: reality really is and if there is any at all. All we have is our
: perception, and this is heavily influenced by the "truth" we already
: have.
Incorrect. Once the cat dies, the cat is dead. That is true.
An indeterminate state does not affect truth; it only suggests that the
truth is not known. Once the state is resolved, truth is known. The cat
cannot be dead for some and alive for others. It is dead, alive, or
unknown...
And, btw, perhaps you should ask MATHEMATICIANS what *they* think about
truth.
: Don't think that Yugoslavian people have no access to free media - they
: have satellite TV, can see TV stations from many different countries,
: and have uncensored access to the Internet. So why do they still believe
: the absolutely ridiculous propaganda lies from their criminal regime?
Because no one wants to believe they are the "bad guy." Period. I
believe that most of the Germans from WWII would tell you this; they
wouldn't believe what was happening at the camps. it was just too
horrible... even if they KNOW it to be true.
: Because they face another truth as we do. Being bombed and having the
: whole world against them obviously changes the perception of reality
: quite a bit.
They do not face a different reality. The world is as it is. The serbian
security forces are on a rampage in Kosovo. Period. Now, if you were to
say to me that they did not have ACCESS to other media, then I'd
understand their position! Of course they hate NATO; they'd have every
reason to believe we are barbaric bastards. They wouldn't know better.
Even if they saw some of our media, I'd still understand. Certainly they
would rather believe THEY are on the side of right and without CLEAR,
BLINDING evidence, they would back their government...
But you just told me they have access to all sorts of our media... What
am I to think? Welp, here are my choices.
1- They are bastards--the lot of them. Let them burn in hell.
2- They can't conceive the evil things at work in Kosovo, so they choose
not to believe it.
3- They believe it, but they dare not do or say anything about it. they
fear their government and rightfully so considering the happenings in
Kosovo.
I'm inclined to believe most people in Serbia fall in 2) and 3). And I
understand this and I sympathize. Alas, around here we hear mostly from
the 1) category... this does not do much to foster a conciliatory
attitude.
: Did you get the news from Draskovic last night. He openly told on
: Yugoslavian TV that the Yugoslavian people are not told the truth about
: what's going on. He agreed to have armed forces (even NATO forces under
: UN mandate) in Kosovo. Does he want to commit suicide, or was his
: statement in accordance with Milosevic?
Yup. Milosevic is looking for a way out. Can you blame him? any victory
would be rather fruitless. His country is in shambles. his people are
poor. His neighbors are armed and angry. He's better off just trying to
"settle out of court." it only gets worse for him from here...
: If so, does Milosevic plan to
: sacrifice Draskovic and give him the role of the traitor of the
: Yugoslavian people?
No. I'm thinking he just wants to settle everything down...