No JMS for third season of Jerimiah?
Hank Arnold
I read it to say that if it doesn't get renewed for a 3rd season, he won't
try later to revive/continue it......
QUESTION: What's going on with Jeremiah?
JMS: If Jeremiah doesn't continue for a third season, I won't return to it.
Showtime has been great, but I'm tired of dealing with MGM.
From: "Monica Hübinette" <ab...@hubbe.net>
Subject: Re: Attn. JMS: No JMS for third season of Jeremiah? Revisit to
the B5 universe?
Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:44 PM
Peter Schuller <peter.s...@infidyne.com> wrote ...
> "-Lyta... bad news about Jeremiah... ( I can't believe I forgot to say
> this...) IF there is a third season, JMS won't be attached. Seems he's
> having a bit o' problems with MGM, which leads him to the "life's too
> short" argument...."
BTW, I am Lyta on the B5TV boards. ;)
Here is a con report from THE PULSE who had a run down of the
questions asked and JMS' answers to them:
http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubbget_topic&f6&t 1223
I know I (and probably a lot of other fans) would be very disappointed
if Jeremiah continued without JMS. :(
--
Monica Hübinette, owner of THE ABYSS
http://abyss.hubbe.net/b5/ | http://abyss.hubbe.net/jeremiah/
Jeremiah Newsletter - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jeremiah-news/
ABYSS Forums - http://abyss.hubbe.net/echo/ (Win Jeremiah & B5 Stuff!)
I do what I love doing. The money is secondary. The funny thing is, if
you approach life that way, oddly you can often make a good living at
it. --JMS
Jms at B5
things were misphrased, two different sentences were put into one, sections are
wholly incomprehensible...it's just a train wreck of a piece.
However, even though the article totally misstated the sentence so it didn't
make any sense, the last phrase is correct, in that I have zero desire to
return to a third season of Jeremiah. Showtime was great, no mistake, but MGM
has overall been the most heinous, difficult and intrusive studio I've ever
worked for. I've worked for, and had great relations with, Viacom, Universal,
Warner Bros., and a bunch more. But I will never, ever, work for the present
administration at MGM.
I didn't know why so many other writers had a problem there and never wanted to
go back. Now I do.
jms
(jms...@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2003 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
and don't send me story ideas)
Patty Winter
>
>However, even though the article totally misstated the sentence so it didn't
>make any sense, the last phrase is correct, in that I have zero desire to
>return to a third season of Jeremiah.
Joe, could there even *be* a third season of "Jeremiah" without you?
I don't know how this works--i.e., whether MGM owns the show and
could conceivably bring in someone else to keep it going.
Patty
John Behling
> I have zero desire to
> return to a third season of Jeremiah. Showtime was great, no mistake, but MGM
> has overall been the most heinous, difficult and intrusive studio I've ever
> worked for.
::::sob::::
I was very, very curious as to how this particular story would turn
out.
But I must say, Joe, that I respect your integrity and admire your
dedication to your creative vision. To stay in a bad situation makes
no sense and I imagine that it would only compromise the work.
I must thank you for Season 1 of Jeremiah -- it helped me put some
things in perspective and for that alone, it will stand as one of my
favorites.
-John
Jan
>... the last phrase is correct, in that I have zero desire to
>return to a third season of Jeremiah. Showtime was great, no mistake, but
>MGM
>has overall been the most heinous, difficult and intrusive studio I've ever
>worked for. I've worked for, and had great relations with, Viacom,
>Universal,
>Warner Bros., and a bunch more. But I will never, ever, work for the present
>administration at MGM.
Darn. Sorry to hear about the trouble you had, Joe. I've enjoyed the Jeremiah
episodes that had your name on them immensly and have been looking forward to
an 'almost all JMS' season since last October.
A couple of purely selfish questions, if I may... Did MGM's intrusiveness
affect the Jeremiah story the way that TNT tried to affect Crusade?
Did/does/will the second season end with a cliffhanger?
And the rhetorical question of the day....Why, when they've got somebody who's
proven that he can tell a whopping good story _and_ handle their money
responsibly, can't the studios just leave him alone to *do* it??? Go away,
studio, repress somebody else!
Jan
Thunder 03
to their bosses and need to make it look like they're doing something
"useful". (I know, it was rhetorical, but...)
t.k.
Jms at B5
>I don't know how this works--i.e., whether MGM owns the show and
>could conceivably bring in someone else to keep it going.
Sure, they could definitely do so. At the end of their day, it's their show,
and if there should be a season three, they would have no choice but to bring
someone else in.
As an aside...none of this should be taken as a diss of the coming season. I
honestly think that the second season is miles better than our first season.
It's more consistent, takes more chances, it's really a very strong season.
Thing of it is, you look at the quality of the work, and the amount of blood on
the floor in getting to that point, and have to decide if the one is worth the
other. The process is hard enough without others making it even harder than it
has to be.
And there we are.
Jms at B5
>affect the Jeremiah story the way that TNT tried to affect Crusade?
No, but not through lack of trying.
>Did/does/will the second season end with a cliffhanger?
Yes and no.
>Why, when they've got somebody who's
>proven that he can tell a whopping good story _and_ handle their money
>responsibly, can't the studios just leave him alone to *do* it???
It's not something I understand either.
Jan
Jan wrote:
>>Did/does/will the second season end with a cliffhanger?
>
>Yes and no.
AAaaarrrrggghhhh! JOE! Sigh...I don't know why I didn't see that answer
coming...<g>
Jan
Kurt Ullman
>
>>Why, when they've got somebody who's
>>proven that he can tell a whopping good story _and_ handle their money
>>responsibly, can't the studios just leave him alone to *do* it???
>
>It's not something I understand either.
>
job wasn't really all that necessary.
--
"Congress is just a place where we send mediocre men to be
Earl Scheib'ed into looking kinda vaguely consequential."
-Dennis Miller
David Chapple
"Jan" <janmsc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030725192719...@mb-m01.aol.com...
It has always been there.
; )
Dave Chapple
Tlsmith1963
>>proven that he can tell a whopping good story _and_ handle their money
>>responsibly, can't the studios just leave him alone to *do* it???
>
>It's not something I understand either.
>
> jms
>
>(jms...@aol.com)
>(all message content (c) 2003 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
>permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
>and don't send me story ideas)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Entertainment-execs. are totally fixated on money, anyway.
Tammy
Mac Breck
news:f0jUa.21834$Mc.16...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> In article <20030725191522...@mb-m19.aol.com>, jms...@aol.com
> (Jms at B5) wrote:
> >
> >>Why, when they've got somebody who's
> >>proven that he can tell a whopping good story _and_ handle their money
> >>responsibly, can't the studios just leave him alone to *do* it???
> >
> >It's not something I understand either.
> >
> Heck that the easiest. If they left you alone someone might notice
their
> job wasn't really all that necessary.
Hmm. they could make a positive impact by asking JMS how they could *help*.
--
Mac Breck
http://www.scifi.com/babylon5/
http://www.scifi.com/crusade/
http://www.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/1521 (Brimstone)
Kurt Ullman
>"Kurt Ullman" <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:f0jUa.21834$Mc.16...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>> In article <20030725191522...@mb-m19.aol.com>, jms...@aol.com
>> (Jms at B5) wrote:
>> >
>> >>Why, when they've got somebody who's
>> >>proven that he can tell a whopping good story _and_ handle their money
>> >>responsibly, can't the studios just leave him alone to *do* it???
>> >
>> >It's not something I understand either.
>> >
>> Heck that the easiest. If they left you alone someone might notice
>their
>> job wasn't really all that necessary.
>
>Hmm. they could make a positive impact by asking JMS how they could *help*.
>
come performance review time.
Kurt (Cynics R Us) Ullman
macthe...@yahoo.com
snip
> Thing of it is, you look at the quality of the work, and the amount of blood on
> the floor in getting to that point, and have to decide if the one is worth the
> other. The process is hard enough without others making it even harder than it
> has to be.
>
> And there we are.
> jms
>
> (jms...@aol.com)
> (all message content (c) 2003 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
> permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
> and don't send me story ideas)
Sounds like shades of TNT-Atlanta.
KoshN
Jan
>It has always been there.
>
>; )
::sigh:: I know...I know....but understanding is a three-edged sword.
Since I seem to have volunteered for straight-line delivery...<g>
Jan
Check out my auctions of rare Dark Shadows and Babylon 5 scripts and
memorabilia at http://tinyurl.com/bhkk
Jan
>But I will never, ever, work for the present
>administration at MGM.
>
>I didn't know why so many other writers had a problem there and never wanted
>to
>go back. Now I do.
Am I reading too much into this or does it sound like this situation was much
more than some mid-level sort trying to make a 'name' for himself?
'Administration' generally connotes the head of an organization.
Joe, did you have to have the meaning of the word 'No' explained to the Emperor
this time?
Andrew Swallow
Does the studios configuration change control procedures do the job
properly and collect the additional cost and time before the change is
approved? Approval should come with the additional money and timescales.
If no additional money is available then any changes to the script, props
etc should be rejected by the accounts department.
Andrew Swallow
macthe...@yahoo.com
> In article <ZvwUa.585$603....@iad-read.news.verio.net>, "Mac Breck"
> <macb...@access995.com> wrote:
> >"Kurt Ullman" <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:f0jUa.21834$Mc.16...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >> In article <20030725191522...@mb-m19.aol.com>, jms...@aol.com
> >> (Jms at B5) wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>Why, when they've got somebody who's
> >> >>proven that he can tell a whopping good story _and_ handle their money
> >> >>responsibly, can't the studios just leave him alone to *do* it???
> >> >
> >> >It's not something I understand either.
> >> >
> >> Heck that the easiest. If they left you alone someone might notice
> their
> >> job wasn't really all that necessary.
> >
> >Hmm. they could make a positive impact by asking JMS how they could *help*.
> >
> Yeah but then JMS would get the credit for the changes. Can't have that
> come performance review time.
Isn't a successful show in *everybody's* best interests?
KoshN
Jon Biggar
>> Yeah but then JMS would get the credit for the changes. Can't have that
>>come performance review time.
>
>
> Isn't a successful show in *everybody's* best interests?
I think it's sort of a prisoner's dilema situation. If the show is
successful, most of the studio suits don't stand out, and in fact it may
not be to their personal advantage because the top brass at the stduio
may begin to think that these folks aren't necessary for successful shows.
Instead, if these guys are difficult, and keep pointing out "ways to
fix" the show, and the show tanks, they've got a paper trail to say,
"see, we told you the show was flawed", and they get to keep their job
and torture the next set of producers.
--
Jon Biggar
Floorboard Software
j...@floorboard.com
j...@biggar.org
Mac Breck
news:8GXUa.161320$ye4.108804@sccrnsc01...
> macthe...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> Yeah but then JMS would get the credit for the changes. Can't have
that
> >>come performance review time.
> >
> >
> > Isn't a successful show in *everybody's* best interests?
>
> I think it's sort of a prisoner's dilema situation. If the show is
> successful, most of the studio suits don't stand out, and in fact it may
> not be to their personal advantage because the top brass at the stduio
> may begin to think that these folks aren't necessary for successful shows.
....*unless* they took a personal interest in making some shows a success,
and stood out *that* way. However, that would entail honest work, being
CONstructive. It's much easier to be DEstructive, to pick something apart,
to drag something down.
> Instead, if these guys are difficult, and keep pointing out "ways to
> fix" the show, and the show tanks, they've got a paper trail to say,
> "see, we told you the show was flawed", and they get to keep their job
> and torture the next set of producers.
So, team players get let go, and jerks keep their jobs. I'm familiar with
that.
David Hedden
"Hank Arnold" <ras...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5%NTa.111432$ye5.20...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
This is the quote from the article/ How does it equate to JMS not doing S3?
I read it to say that if it doesn't get renewed for a 3rd season, he won't
try later to revive/continue it......
============
QUESTION: What's going on with Jeremiah?
JMS: If Jeremiah doesn't continue for a third season, I won't return to it.
Showtime has been great, but I'm tired of dealing with MGM.
============
From: "Monica Hübinette" <ab...@hubbe.net>
Subject: Re: Attn. JMS: No JMS for third season of Jeremiah? Revisit to
the B5 universe?
Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:44 PM
Peter Schuller <peter.s...@infidyne.com> wrote ...
> "-Lyta... bad news about Jeremiah... ( I can't believe I forgot to say
> this...) IF there is a third season, JMS won't be attached. Seems he's
> having a bit o' problems with MGM, which leads him to the "life's too
> short" argument...."
BTW, I am Lyta on the B5TV boards. ;)
Here is a con report from THE PULSE who had a run down of the
questions asked and JMS' answers to them:
http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=t_topic&f6&t1223
I know I (and probably a lot of other fans) would be very disappointed
if Jeremiah continued without JMS. :(
--
Monica Hübinette, owner of THE ABYSS
http://abyss.hubbe.net/b5/ | http://abyss.hubbe.net/jeremiah/
Jeremiah Newsletter - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jeremiah-news/
ABYSS Forums - http://abyss.hubbe.net/echo/ (Win Jeremiah & B5 Stuff!)
I do what I love doing. The money is secondary. The funny thing is, if
you approach life that way, oddly you can often make a good living at
it. --JMS
The quote from above is interesting:
JMS: If Jeremiah doesn't continue for a third season, I won't return to it.
Showtime has been great, but I'm tired of dealing with MGM.
The quote does NOT say that JMS won't do season 3 (assuming Jeremiah gets
renewed). Does the information from the other quote above (and repeated
below) have any support from the first-hand source (JMS)?
> "-Lyta... bad news about Jeremiah... ( I can't believe I forgot to say
> this...) IF there is a third season, JMS won't be attached. Seems he's
> having a bit o' problems with MGM, which leads him to the "life's too
> short" argument...."
>From all I've seen, it was the distillation of information from one fan to
another. I would prefer to see the "Lyta" quote substantiated by JMS before
believing that "IF there is a third season, JMS won't be attached."
-David
Svetislav Soldat
[ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
Joe, What happens if Jeremiah returns for a third season without you? I mean
i guess a replacement could be find (i know hard to imagine but in this
weird world anything seems to be possieble :) ), but the series would
certainly have a different kind of feeling, who knows maybe even a different
direction. It'd certainly suck to end the series with a big cliffhanger like
last season, but to get a mediocre end-rpoduct doesn't also feel right. Does
those questions make any sense?
Neil Ottenstein
> However, even though the article totally misstated the sentence so it didn't
> make any sense, the last phrase is correct, in that I have zero desire to
> return to a third season of Jeremiah.
I don't get Showtime, but I was planning on buying the first season on
DVD and then the second season should that be offered.
Did you approach parts of the second season finale knowing that you
wouldn't be doing the third season? My question is whether there will
be some sense of closure at the end of the second season. Will people
be able to look on the first two seasons as some sort of whole
project and enjoy it as such? Or will we be left hanging and
wondering what might have been?
Thanks,
Neil
profengs
POWER
Many of these so called execs are on power kicks. They must prove that they can
exercise the power of their will over those "little people" that work for them.
Read little people as anyone who is not an exec. They know best because their
ego will not allow them to believe otherwise. This is why I have said for
years, the best way to influence networks is to use the power modulation device
on the TV. Let them know you will not watch the show. They them know you will
not support the advertisers, then write the advertisers and let them know. The
execs may be on a power trip, but nothing is more powerful than money.
CJW
Monica Hübinette
> But I will never, ever, work for the present administration at MGM.
>
> I didn't know why so many other writers had a problem there and never wanted
> to go back. Now I do.
I am not sure this has been asked anywhere else but I have noticed a
few people on other forums speculating that the troubles you have been
having with the Top Cow/Atlas Entertainment/MGM Rising Stars movie
script are related to the troubles with MGM and Jeremiah. I wonder if
they two entirely different beasts but perhaps the combination of the
two pushed you over the edge?
In any case, any light that can be shed on these two "MGM" issues
would be greatly appriciated!
Pelzo63
one of the more friendly(to you) co-producers, would you give them any last
second "this is what i had in mind" things, nothing specific of course, just a
general mood and direction? or is it just...willie nelson time....know when to
walk away.
...Chris
jehanne
"profengs" wrote
> Many of these so called execs are on power kicks. They must prove that
they can
> exercise the power of their will over those "little people" that work for
them.
> Read little people as anyone who is not an exec. They know best because
their
> ego will not allow them to believe otherwise
How many of them have you met and/or interacted with on a regular basis? Is
this information from personal experience or secondhand from the nets?
'Cause that's an awfully harsh accuration to level against someone you
haven't dealt with... of course, if you have deal with these execs, I think
we'd all be curious to hear a few anecdotes from your personal experience.
jehanne
The Nuclear Marine
news:3F2281CA...@ixpres.com:
> That one I think I can answer.
>
> POWER
>
> Many of these so called execs are on power kicks. They must prove that
> they can exercise the power of their will over those "little people"
> that work for them. Read little people as anyone who is not an exec.
> They know best because their ego will not allow them to believe
> otherwise. This is why I have said for years, the best way to
> influence networks is to use the power modulation device on the TV.
> Let them know you will not watch the show. They them know you will not
> support the advertisers, then write the advertisers and let them know.
> The execs may be on a power trip, but nothing is more powerful than
> money.
>
There are many essays about the difference between a leader and a boss. As
in most groups where one must lead a large group of alpha males, one has to
put ego aside otherwise you get one big ass pissing contest. Best way to
deal with micromanagers is to give them more than they can manage, and make
sure the word empowerment does not come out of their mouth.
Nuke
--
Listen to the Black Atheist Avenger: www.InfidelGuy.com
It's been lonely in the saddle since my horse died.
Prison Sex - Silent but Violent
Dave Thomer
does return . . .,' as JMS clarified in a post here on the newgroup. (I was
at the panel in question, too, so I can cofirm that the PULSE report is in
error.)
--
Dave Thomer
This Is Not News - www.notnews.org
Philosophy, public affairs and pop culture
"David Hedden" <david...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:bfqcmg$itk$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
Wendy of NJ
The Nuclear Marine wrote:
one has to
> put ego aside otherwise you get one big ass pissing contest.
boy, did *I* parse that wrong the first time thru! LOL
(very glad I've never witness an "ass pissing contest")
Jms at B5
>wouldn't be doing the third season?
Yes. That thought was pretty much all that kep me going at the end.
>My question is whether there will
>be some sense of closure at the end of the second season. Will people
>be able to look on the first two seasons as some sort of whole
>project and enjoy it as such? Or will we be left hanging and
>wondering what might have been?
No, it actually does have some closure to it. So if that were to be the last
season, it would have a good end to it.
Jms at B5
>i guess a replacement could be find (i know hard to imagine but in this
>weird world anything seems to be possieble :) ), but the series would
>certainly have a different kind of feeling, who knows maybe even a different
>direction.
True. And who knows, it could be better or worse evenly, depending on who they
get. We'll just have to see.
Monica Hübinette
> Did you approach parts of the second season finale knowing that you
> wouldn't be doing the third season? My question is whether there will
> be some sense of closure at the end of the second season. Will people
> be able to look on the first two seasons as some sort of whole
> project and enjoy it as such? Or will we be left hanging and
> wondering what might have been?
I believe that has been answered here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20030725191522.02982.00000475%40mb-m19.aol.com
----------
>Did/does/will the second season end with a cliffhanger?
Yes and no.
----------
Monica Hübinette
> From all I've seen, it was the distillation of information from one fan to
> another. I would prefer to see the "Lyta" quote substantiated by JMS before
> believing that "IF there is a third season, JMS won't be attached."
That is true, a fan who attended Comic-Con reported back what he heard
at the JMS panels and replied directly to my question, "What about
Jeremiah?" Go to the b5tv.com forums if you want to read the whole
report.
JMS has since clarified that "rumor" if you will in a post earlier in
this thread:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20030725013032.04994.00000477%40mb-m26.aol.com
----------
However, even though the [PULSE] article totally misstated the
sentence so it didn't make any sense, the last phrase is correct, in
that I have zero desire to return to a third season of Jeremiah.
I will never, ever, work for the present administration at MGM.
----------
That sounds pretty substantiated to me since MGM owns Jeremiah and I
don't think they will ever sell it to another studio. Maybe if the
administration changes at MGM he might consider staying on with
Jeremiah? However, I don't know how likely that would ever happen.
Aaron Sherman
> JMS has since clarified that "rumor" if you will in a post earlier in
> this thread:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20030725013032.04994.00000477%40mb-m26.aol.com
>
> ----------
> However, even though the [PULSE] article totally misstated the
> sentence so it didn't make any sense, the last phrase is correct, in
> that I have zero desire to return to a third season of Jeremiah.
>
> I will never, ever, work for the present administration at MGM.
> ----------
I respect JMS' work, and I loved B5, but... I honestly have to wonder
is it just him?
I wonder that for about 10 minutes, and then I remember shows like
Andromeda, The West Wing, Firefly and Whitchblade, where a great
story, created and brought kicking and screaming into the world by one
or a small number of folks is canceled or ripped out of their creative
hands because the studio felt that the goose wasn't laying the golden
eggs fast enough, and perhaps a blender would help :-(
Whitchblade was perhaps the saddest example. The first season was a
little schticky, but had a good central story that IMHO was far better
than the comic's rather thin excuse to draw a half-naked bubble-babe,
cloaked in weaponry. The last episode had me reeling... it was all at
once the cliche "psyche, it didn't happen" combined with a very modern
(a opposed to post-modern) opportunity to re-examine itself with a new
perspective.
Then a couple of buildings got knocked over and a whole lot of police
and firefighters died.... suddenly it was no longer "cool" to poke fun
at the idea (true or false) of corrupt New York Cops. I can see the
network going into note-overdrive without even having to have heard
that it happened.
The problem with that sort of process is that it doesn't have an
off-switch. Once the suits think you need "help", they keep going...
and going. I saw it all through the second season. Characters were
introduced that made no sense, other than to re-align the demographic.
Characters were tossed asside suddenly, without explanation and
"replacements" magically appeared (the replacement bad-guy for Sarah's
twin in the final episode was a perfect example).
All things considered it was a mess, and it ruined one of the best
arc-driven stories I had ever seen on television :-( Did they not
realize that these were talented and creative people, and that simply
asking them to re-work the second season to avoid the corrupt cop
angle would have been sufficient?
I presume that the same will go for The West Wing now that Sorkin has
quit / been fired for being late with scripts (can you imagine telling
the creator of The West Wing that he has to do a BETTER job?! -- that
the cost of actors standing around for a day or two when a script is
late is A BUDGET PROBLEM?! -- that one of the most critically
acclaimed series ever put to television needs to hire NEW WRITERS?!).
I really, really hope that the show's ratings die this season and it's
cancelled soon after. Perhaps this "f**k with the writer, lose the
show" idea will sink in....
It was the same for Andromeda. Andromeda was actually a tad more
ambitious than B5 in a couple of ways in the second season. Then the
suits decided it was too dark, so they fired the lead writer. Next
episode everyone gets a makeover and not it's "attitude patrol: the
next generation"!
No, I don't think it's JMS, I think that no sane person would work in
television right now. The pervasive "writers suck, if they talk back
fire 'em and get a new one that comes with fries" attitude of the
movies is starting to gain far too much of a foothold in television
(not that it was ever totally absent). I guess I just have to start
reading self-published fiction on the Net and ignoring centrally
published junk all together. How Joss Whedon managed to pull off 7
seasons of Buffy and 4 seasons (so far!) of Angel is way beyond me.
All I can guess is that the networks he was working for were so young
that the executives actually had to spend their working hours... you
know... working.
SamusekTDS
>
> No, it actually does have some closure to it. So if that were to be the last
> season, it would have a good end to it.
>
> jms
Well, I'm glad to hear *that* at least. It is of some consolation.
---
Sam.
Deathwalker
>
>
> > POWER
> >
> > Many of these so called execs are on power kicks. They must prove that
> they can
> > exercise the power of their will over those "little people" that work
for
> them.
> > Read little people as anyone who is not an exec. They know best because
> their
> > ego will not allow them to believe otherwise. This is why I have said
for
> > years, the best way to influence networks is to use the power modulation
> device
> > on the TV. Let them know you will not watch the show. They them know you
> will
> > not support the advertisers, then write the advertisers and let them
know.
> The
> > execs may be on a power trip, but nothing is more powerful than money.
>
writing
> about his memories (though subconscious) and they keep ignoring him and
> saying things like " 3 shots disintegrates? Man thats the stupidest
thing
> i ever heard"
>
Art imitating life? Some disgruntled writer slipped that under the radar
though I heard Richard Dean Andersons sense of humour would allow it.
Ian Lincoln
I am dyslexia of borg your ass will be laminated
"Deathwalker" <ian-l...@blueyonder.co.uk
Iain Clark
It was their hundredth episode (or something like that), so the whole
plot was a big opportunity to do in-jokes and meta-comments about the
show. They showed someone making a terrible low budget SF show about
a Stargate :-) Throwaway lines about why do all the aliens speak
English, etc.
Iain
--
"Goddamn your confusion
She's got pretty persuasion"
Brian O'Neill
> It was their hundredth episode (or something like that), so the whole
> plot was a big opportunity to do in-jokes and meta-comments about the
> show. They showed someone making a terrible low budget SF show about
> a Stargate :-) Throwaway lines about why do all the aliens speak
> English, etc.
>
It was a great episode with a lot of in-jokes, if the true plot wasn't
that great.
The "director" of the show ("Wormhole X-treme") was Peter DeLuise (from
"21 Jump Street" and one of Dom DeLuise's sons), who is in fact a
frequent director, co-producer and creative consultant (and even extra)
for Stargate SG-1 and even did a couple of Jeremiah episodes. He was the
one that kept wanting the explosions "bigger".
His brother Michael was the "star" of the show.
They even had fun showing "outtakes" from the pseudo-show. I forget the
exact lines, but the guy who played the doctor character explained that
he was so-and-so playing so-and-so who was Dr. Daniel Jackson, played by
Michael Shanks but played by James Spader in the movie, while showing
clips of him being repeatedly buried by foam rocks...
-Brian
Deathwalker
--
I.A.N.L.I.N.C.O.L.N.: Intelligent Android Normally for Logical
Infiltration/Networked Construct Optimized for Learning and Nullification
"Brian O'Neill" <one...@oinc.net> wrote in message
news:788Xa.9335$iZ4....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
My favourite one was "if i can walk through walls how come i don't fall
through the floor?" obviously in serious world they don't have an answer for
that on any level so pointed it out and made fun of it.
My biggest reason for referring to it was cos the way they treated the
writer which from what i've read should have touched a raw nerve for a lot
of writers.
Kurt Tappe
> I wonder that for about 10 minutes, and then I remember shows like
Perhaps Witchblade went away due to stiff wooden acting and
boilerplate scriptwriting? I tried to watch it--I really tried. But
JMS quality it definitely was not.
> I presume that the same will go for The West Wing now that Sorkin has
> quit / been fired for being late with scripts (can you imagine telling
> the creator of The West Wing that he has to do a BETTER job?! -- that
> the cost of actors standing around for a day or two when a script is
> late is A BUDGET PROBLEM?!
Um, how is the situation of actors being paid to sit around and
twiddle their thumbs NOT a budget problem?? Now that the WW is
popular, its actors demand significant salaries. Paying them not to
work can very easily cause budget overruns. What if an episode ends
up being late, and the network has to put a filler in its place?
That's BIG money lost.
If you're going to compare Sorkin to JMS, then let's take the
comparison all the way. I have no recollection of the B5 actors
chronically being forced to wait on the set for JMS to come rushing in
with the latest few pages of his scripts. He works (admittedly very
long hours) to keep this from happening. He works closely with the
studios to know what his deadlines are and he makes those deadlines.
And I don't recall any reports of JMS having problems with drugs, the
likely cause of Sorkin's downfall.
So, yes, Sorkin did need to do a better job. No script is ever truly
finished, but part of being a good writer is knowing when enough is
enough. At some point, making a deadline is more important than
getting that one last line of dialogue juuuust right. Due to either
the drugs or his stubbornness, Sorkin seems to not have been willing
to accept this. As much as it pains to say it (WW was my favorite
current show), the studio seems to have had a good point in this case.
-Kurt
Wendy of NJ
Kurt Tappe wrote:
> a...@ajs.com (Aaron Sherman) wrote
>
>>I wonder that for about 10 minutes, and then I remember shows like
>>Andromeda, The West Wing, Firefly and Whitchblade (sic)
>
>
> Perhaps Witchblade went away due to stiff wooden acting and
> boilerplate scriptwriting? I tried to watch it--I really tried. But
> JMS quality it definitely was not.
>
>
>>I presume that the same will go for The West Wing now that Sorkin has
>>quit / been fired for being late with scripts (can you imagine telling
>>the creator of The West Wing that he has to do a BETTER job?! -- that
>>the cost of actors standing around for a day or two when a script is
>>late is A BUDGET PROBLEM?!
>
>
> Um, how is the situation of actors being paid to sit around and
> twiddle their thumbs NOT a budget problem?? Now that the WW is
> popular, its actors demand significant salaries. Paying them not to
> work can very easily cause budget overruns. What if an episode ends
> up being late, and the network has to put a filler in its place?
> That's BIG money lost.
What about the episode or 2 that the networks were too chicken to air at
all? (It was right when the Iraq invasion was immanent, and WW was going
into an African country - all of a sudden, we had 2 or 3 weeks of double
"Law & Order" and no WW at all and then WW comes back on, and that whole
thread is OVER.)
Jms at B5
>chronically being forced to wait on the set for JMS to come rushing in
>with the latest few pages of his scripts. He works (admittedly very
>long hours) to keep this from happening. He works closely with the
>studios to know what his deadlines are and he makes those deadlines.
I have this kind of antiquated notion that if someone gives you x-million bucks
to make a show, it behooves you to act *responsibly*. So really it's just a
matter of being responsible in how you run a show.
As a result, in every season of every show I've run, we always came in under
budget, anywhere from $100K to $500K. When I said I'd do that on Jeremiah,
they kind of laughed at me, 'cause it was a big show, big names, big production
values...we came in about $300K under in year 1, and about $200K under in year
2.
On B5, Crusade and Jeremiah, we never had a forced call on an actor, never had
actors waiting around for pages to arrive on stage. We stay 5-6 scripts ahead
at all times, so directors can prep efficiently. And in 5 years of B5 plus
Crusade, we had maybe 20 days of any serious overtime. On Jeremiah I think we
had a total of 18 over two seasons.
Just a matter of being responsible with other people's money.
David C.
A very old-fashioned philosophy, and one that I wish would make a
bigger comeback in today's society.
-- David
Andrew Swallow
news:20030816235147...@mb-m26.aol.com...
[snip]
>
> As a result, in every season of every show I've run, we always came in
under
> budget, anywhere from $100K to $500K. When I said I'd do that on
Jeremiah,
> they kind of laughed at me, 'cause it was a big show, big names, big
production
> values...we came in about $300K under in year 1, and about $200K under in
year
> 2.
>
Lets see how long it takes for the new management to
make Jeremiah come in over budget and actors waiting
for scripts. Unless the producers and directors were
trained by JMS.
Andrew Swallow
The Nuclear Marine
jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote in
news:20030816235147...@mb-m26.aol.com:
>
> On B5, Crusade and Jeremiah, we never had a forced call on an actor,
> never had actors waiting around for pages to arrive on stage. We stay
> 5-6 scripts ahead at all times, so directors can prep efficiently.
> And in 5 years of B5 plus Crusade, we had maybe 20 days of any
> serious overtime. On Jeremiah I think we had a total of 18 over two
> seasons.
>
It was noted again in the S3 cast commentaries that they never had a late
work day (mentioned on S2 also). You'd think a production company that
treated actors like regular employees with definate hours would be a rule
and not an exception.
So like B5 and Jeremiah, did Crusade, Captain Power and your run during
Murder She Wrote also have these oddities called steady hours? I know, you
hate producing (or as you're bumper sticker says "I'd Rather Be Writing")
but damned if you don't treat it respectfully.
Nuke - joking about the Bumper Sticker, don't even know if Joe can drive.
--
With greater understanding comes deeper satisfaction
Gaps and dead ends in my understanding discomfort me
If I'm afraid, further seeking reveals misunderstanding
I believe it will always be thus.
I seek truth not for fear of loss, nor want of gain, nor need of words
I pursue truth no matter what it is, who says it or what I already believe
C W CHAN
>So like B5 and Jeremiah, did Crusade, Captain Power and your run during
>Murder She Wrote also have these oddities called steady hours? I know, you
>hate producing (or as you're bumper sticker says "I'd Rather Be Writing")
^^^^^^
>but damned if you don't treat it respectfully.
Not really a nitpick.
I have seen you're written as your before, but this is the first time
I've seen it the other way (unless Joe is really a bumper sticker
pretending to be a writer <g>).
Chuen Chan c.c...@uq.NOSPAM.net.au
---------------------------------------------------------------------
'You can prove anything you want by coldly logical reason - if you pick
the proper postulates... Postulates are based on assumption and adhered
to by faith. Nothing in the Universe can shake them.'
Gregory Powell in Robots series by I. Asimov
LK
CHAN) wrote:
>The Nuclear Marine <Nuke-...@cox.net> writes:
>
>>So like B5 and Jeremiah, did Crusade, Captain Power and your run during
>>Murder She Wrote also have these oddities called steady hours? I know, you
>>hate producing (or as you're bumper sticker says "I'd Rather Be Writing")
> ^^^^^^
>>but damned if you don't treat it respectfully.
>
>Not really a nitpick.
>I have seen you're written as your before, but this is the first time
>I've seen it the other way (unless Joe is really a bumper sticker
>pretending to be a writer <g>).
>
>Chuen Chan c.c...@uq.NOSPAM.net.au
Oh, that is so good :-> !
Especially for the California recall election.
_________ is a bumper sticker pretending to be a politician.
LK
The Nuclear Marine
zzcw...@fox.uq.net.au (C W CHAN) wrote in
news:bhpqoj$jkd$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au:
> The Nuclear Marine <Nuke-...@cox.net> writes:
>
>>So like B5 and Jeremiah, did Crusade, Captain Power and your run
>>during Murder She Wrote also have these oddities called steady hours?
>>I know, you hate producing (or as you're bumper sticker says "I'd
>>Rather Be Writing")
> ^^^^^^
>>but damned if you don't treat it respectfully.
>
> Not really a nitpick.
> I have seen you're written as your before, but this is the first time
> I've seen it the other way (unless Joe is really a bumper sticker
> pretending to be a writer <g>).
>
Doh! I's be silly dat time. Use caught me good.
Nuke
deathwalker
> I have this kind of antiquated notion that if someone gives you x-million
bucks
> to make a show, it behooves you to act *responsibly*. So really it's just
a
> matter of being responsible in how you run a show.
>
> As a result, in every season of every show I've run, we always came in
under
> budget, anywhere from $100K to $500K.
Well you'll never make it as a manager or an accountant.
You see if you make it under budget by X. Then next years budget is same as
last years minus X. Therefore have to waste the last bit on anything.
Like bigger computers to do the rendering on. 500K is a fair bit of
computing power. By season 5 you would have been rendering in real time ;)