Physical Immortality made possible by Alex Chiu
alex...@my-deja.com
The other day I stumbled on a site that seemed to do some outrageous
claims. It's set up by Alex Chiu who says he invented a device that can
give eternal life! Wow... that's long!
To achieve "eternal life" he says all that one should do is daily wear
some rings he has made when you sleep. These are not just normal rings:
they hold some magnets. These magnets are supposed to correct the
magnetic flow through the body which has for effect that the body is
healed and the aging process "reversed" (or countered). He explains
exactly how this works on his site.
Obviously, it could take a while to see if he could be right about
it... But on his site he has tons of testimonials that seem quite
genuine. If the rings don't give eternal life, then they sure seem to
do A LOT of good for ones health. People do seem to get in better shape
starting within 24 hrs, and feel notably better in just 2 weeks. The
rings seem to cause all sorts of healing and really improve people's
lifes.
Now I know for a fact that the best identified reason why the body ages
is because the telomers of body cells shorten and the telomerase (an
enzyme that is supposed to counter the shortening of the telomers) gets
used up over the years. One of the ways to counter this is by avoiding
to drain the body from its enzymes (and consume enzyme supplements if
necessary), and have a sufficient intake of minerals and vitamins. This
means f.i. that one should avoid eating cooked and processed food (as
when cooked or processed, food takes more enzymes from the body to be
digested).
So if the rings really heal body tissues, like f.i. scars (as some have
testified), then they might also heal the telomers, and then (maybe, as
this is an unverified speculation) THIS COULD WORK!
Anyway, I haven't tried them myself yet, but I will soon. To me the guy
doesn't seem to be a hustler, especially if you consider the fact that
on his site he even explains how to make the rings yourself, for those
who don't want to (or can't) buy it!
If you like to look for yourself, go to
http://www.alexchiu.com/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=albert2
Don't miss the testimonial page for some interesting stories!
Peace and health.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Jeff Dee
>
> The way to eternal life?
>
> The other day I stumbled on a site that seemed to do some outrageous
> claims. It's set up by Alex Chiu who says he invented a device that can
> give eternal life! Wow... that's long!
It takes a very special kind of idiot to "stumble on" his
own web site.
-Jeff Dee
--
"It is as morally bad not to care whether a thing is true
or not, so long as it makes you feel good, as it is not to
care how you got your money as long as you have got it."
-Edmund Way Teale, "Circle of the Seasons", 1950
unig...@io.com * http://www.io.com/unigames/index.html
* * * AA #1355 - Knight of the BAAWA since 10/26/99 * * *
Sumo Platter
> Anyway, I haven't tried them myself yet, but I will soon.
This is my favorite bit.
--
"We forbid any course that says we restrict free speech."
Kathleen Dixon, director of women's studies, Bowling Green State University
Jeff Dee
>
> <alex...@my-deja.com> wrote...
>
> > The way to eternal life?
>
> > The other day I stumbled on a site that seemed to do some outrageous
> > claims. It's set up by Alex Chiu who says he invented a device that can
> > give eternal life! Wow... that's long!
> > Anyway, I haven't tried them myself yet, but I will soon.
>
> This is my favorite bit.
And he has the gall to criticize ME for not trying them?
By the way, in case ANYONE out there wasn't already
convinced that Alex Chiu is a con man, this is proof. He
creates new email addresses on Deja just so he can pretend
to be an unbiased stranger. Sure, he didn't have the
presence of mind to give his made-up email address a
DIFFERENT NAME, but that's because he's a really DUMB
con man!
Damaeus
news:alt.immortal, which said:
> alex...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > The way to eternal life?
> >
> > The other day I stumbled on a site that seemed to do some outrageous
> > claims. It's set up by Alex Chiu who says he invented a device that can
> > give eternal life! Wow... that's long!
>
> It takes a very special kind of idiot to "stumble on" his
> own web site.
ROTFLMAO... I thought the same thing when I read his message and when I opened
the thread and saw your post, I found exactly what I thought I would find!
LOL!!!
Damaeus
phys_g...@my-deja.com
Jeff Dee <unig...@io.com> wrote:
>
> By the way, in case ANYONE out there wasn't already
> convinced that Alex Chiu is a con man, this is proof. He
> creates new email addresses on Deja just so he can pretend
> to be an unbiased stranger. Sure, he didn't have the
> presence of mind to give his made-up email address a
> DIFFERENT NAME, but that's because he's a really DUMB
> con man!
>
> -Jeff Dee
>
LOL!!!! Really dumb con man, that's awesome! You almost expect him
to have finished his post....
>Don't miss the testimonial page for some interesting stories!
>Peace and health.
>Sincerely,
>Um ... Al ... Alec ... Alex ... Alexi .... Um ... Alexi Ch ...
>Alexi Chooo ... Alexi Choo-Choo ... ya ... Alexi Choo-Choo ...
alex...@my-deja.com
Now I have a web ring for the users of Immortality Device. If people
don't believe the testimonials on my site, go check out the web ring
and visit other people's site. Other people be writing testimonials on
their own sites.
Jeff Dee is a complete asshole, so don't listen to him. He never tried
my device. He could build it himself. All he does is discredit other
people's work for NO REASON. If you don't believe me, you got to have
a good reason not to. I know what Jeff Dee is going to say
next. "Alex. You made up those sites that testified for you. You're
the one who's writing the daily journals posted on other people's
site." Well, Jeff, Fuck U and your stubbornness. Go die.
In article <947ut8$4s3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
rjk3
arthritus (and other conditions) but there is none that it improves the
physical condition. It is a bit of a stretch from there to immortality.
Do take a look at Alex's testimonials, some are funny, if a bit lewd.
In article <949hif$ci5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Jeff Dee
>
> People, visit http://www.alexchiu.com
>
> Now I have a web ring for the users of Immortality Device. If people
> don't believe the testimonials on my site, go check out the web ring
> and visit other people's site. Other people be writing testimonials on
> their own sites.
>
> Jeff Dee is a complete asshole, so don't listen to him. He never tried
> my device. He could build it himself. All he does is discredit other
> people's work for NO REASON.
The good reason is that you haven't presented a single shred
of evidence in support of your wild claim. All you've done
is point to "testimonials", none of which are from anyone
who's lived longer than a normal human life span. Not that
testimonials are evidence anyway, especially considering the
fact that you've been caught pretending to be one of your
own customers!
Oh, and you also posted a link to an article about you that
makes fun of you, which just goes to show how blinded you
are by your own smug sense of self-importance.
> If you don't believe me, you got to have
> a good reason not to.
Extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence. You've
made the claims, but haven't provided the evidence. That's
sufficient reason to reject your claim.
> I know what Jeff Dee is going to say
> next. "Alex. You made up those sites that testified for you.
We've all seen proof that you post letters praising your
dumb magic bracelets under your own name. So clearly
you're not above faking endorsements, but clearly you're
too stupid to do it anonymously.
And THIS is the person we're expected to believe has
discovered a cure for aging? Give me a break.
> You're
> the one who's writing the daily journals posted on other people's
> site." Well, Jeff, Fuck U and your stubbornness. Go die.
Go ahead and post the addresses of some of these sites,
Alex. It will be fun to see how many of them are
actually making fun of you without you realizing it ;-)
Earl Colby Pottinger
site on life extension. The text ade it clear that you were trying to past
yourself off as a third party how discovered this site when in fact it was
your own site. That does not put in in a good light. And yes, I too think
you are planning to fake a bunch of sites. After, it is interesting that
none of these sites exist right now. Usually when a product is good people
put up site talking about it without needed the original creator asking for
backup.
Earl Colby Pottinger
> .
--
Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, BePrint, BePrinter, RAMDISK, Cabin Raising,
Camping, BoatBuilding, Girlfriend. What happened to the time?
http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp
Earl Colby Pottinger
site on life extension. The text made it clear that you were trying to past
yourself off as a third party who discovered this site when in fact it was
your own site. That does not put you in a good light. And yes, I too think
you are planning to fake a bunch of sites. After all, it is interesting that
none of these sites exist right now. Usually when a product is good people
backup.
Earl Colby Pottinger
alex...@my-deja.com :
> People, visit http://www.alexchiu.com
alex...@my-deja.com
So what I pass the essay that my affiliate member wrote on to this
group? None of your business. I m not against the law. The object is
to let people see my site. None of your business. I can advertise my
site which ever way I want. And you said I made up those sites?
You're fucken low ass human! You ain't shit. Okay. So I made up
those sites? Then I must have bought a few domains too because some of
those sites have private domains? For example
http://www.luck4all.com The webmaster is the one who personally
testified for me. And for example www.cgiguru.com Again, the
webmaster is the one who testified for me. Now you probably say I paid
them money for them to do this. Earl Colby Pottinger. Fuck U! You
ain't shit. And I can say that again. You yourself can't do shit. U
ain't half the human I am. So shut your God damn mouth cauz you spew
nothing but shit out of your mouth.
hagb...@my-deja.com
put such a hostile flavor in the messages posted
here. After all I'm sure that you can see how
the message was posted appears to be a deception
I'm sure that you did not intend for your E-mail
address to show with the message. I can however
agree with you that before someone wishes to
brand you as a con man they should first try the
product which I intend to through giveing a
donation to one of the charity's named on your
web sight and then sending you the recipt. It
must be admitted that this hardly seem the usual
method for a con man.
I will admit that I sympathetic to this cause
because it is my current belief that one of the
possible solutions for stopping the ageing
process can come from manpulation of the magnetic
fields of the body. To be more specific the
magnetic codeing that surronds DNA. TO those
others reading this think to yourself it has been
proven and it is relativily common knoledge in
the scitentfic community that there is an enegery
field that surrounds the body which would make
more sence that it is some fluffy random cloud or
that it contains detaled information that is part
of our material body? now regarding your claims
about the rings granting immortality: How can you
seem to be sure, how long have you had there
design perfected? This is not an admonishment
but a true question.
Thank You Hagb...@altavista.com
tint...@my-deja.com
there?
Jeff Dee
>
> Dear Alex I'm wondering why you are wanting to
> put such a hostile flavor in the messages posted
> here. After all I'm sure that you can see how
> the message was posted appears to be a deception
> I'm sure that you did not intend for your E-mail
> address to show with the message. I can however
> agree with you that before someone wishes to
> brand you as a con man they should first try the
> product which I intend to through giveing a
> donation to one of the charity's named on your
> web sight and then sending you the recipt. It
> must be admitted that this hardly seem the usual
> method for a con man.
A crucial part of any con is the appearance of
respectability. Sure, *some* people will follow through
on his "free" offers, but as long as he's fooling people
into believing that he's not simply a money-grubbing con
man is maintained, many *more* potential customers will
trust him enough to really send him money.
So the question is not "can a person get one of Alex
Chiu's magical bracelets without paying him". The
REAL question is, "what evidence is Alex Chiu offering
that justifies taking his claims seriously AT ALL?"
And the answer to that question is: none.
> I will admit that I sympathetic to this cause
> because it is my current belief that one of the
> possible solutions for stopping the ageing
> process can come from manpulation of the magnetic
> fields of the body. To be more specific the
> magnetic codeing that surronds DNA. TO those
> others reading this think to yourself it has been
> proven and it is relativily common knoledge in
> the scitentfic community that there is an enegery
> field that surrounds the body
Please cite any scientific studies which have shown that
a) such a field exists b) what *kind* of "energy" it is and
b) that this energy has anything at all to do with our
ability to function. I have never heard a reputable
scientist claim any such thing, but I *have* heard many
New-Age charlatans say it.
> now regarding your claims
> about the rings granting immortality: How can you
> seem to be sure, how long have you had there
> design perfected? This is not an admonishment
> but a true question.
HE can't. He has no idea how to conduct a valid
scientific experiment, or even that such an experiment
would be a worthwhile thing to do. He was recently asked
to submit his device for such testing, but the mistook the
request for a demand for more advertising and PR.
In Alex' mind, saying something (advertising) is the SAME
as proving that it's true (testing). He makes this mistake
every time he talks about all his "testimonials".
Damaeus
news:alt.immortal, which said:
> I can however agree with you that before someone wishes to brand you as
> a con man they should first try the product which I intend to through
> giveing a donation to one of the charity's named on your web sight and
> then sending you the recipt. It must be admitted that this hardly seem
> the usual method for a con man.
He wants the original receipt so he can deduct it the amount shown from his
income taxes on his 1040 form at the end of the year.
Damaeus
S. MacNeil
"Damaeus" <tribal...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:0qho6t0vi9fsiho3o...@4ax.com...
Hey, if this is deductible, I wonder if it can be depreciated over x-number
of years.
However, that would then pose a further problem, since the giver would be
immortal, how would one work out the depreciation, as you would think that
the magic beans... I mean magnetic bracelets would APpreciate in value, the
longer the giver lived, no?
And since the give will live forever, conceivably, there would be a year in
which the turning point would be such that (s)he would never have to pay
taxes again, and would indeed be paid an incrementally larger amount of
money on a tax return...
Any accountants in the houuuuse??
S.
Earl Colby Pottinger
> So what I pass the essay that my affiliate member wrote on to this
> group? None of your business. I m not against the law. The object is
> to let people see my site. None of your business. I can advertise my
> site which ever way I want. And you said I made up those sites?
> You're fucken low ass human! You ain't shit. Okay. So I made up
> those sites? Then I must have bought a few domains too because some of
> those sites have private domains? For example
> http://www.luck4all.com The webmaster is the one who personally
> testified for me. And for example www.cgiguru.com Again, the
> webmaster is the one who testified for me. Now you probably say I paid
> them money for them to do this. Earl Colby Pottinger. Fuck U! You
> ain't shit. And I can say that again. You yourself can't do shit. U
> ain't half the human I am. So shut your God damn mouth cauz you spew
> nothing but shit out of your mouth.
>
> http://www.deja.com/
The above message is Alex's reply to my message below. Now he claims an
affiliate member who was never mentioned before. No matter, could be true,
however the rest of his reply does not show the type of person I want to buy
anything from.
Yeee, right! You had posted a message using DejaNews claiming to find a new
site on life extension. The text made it clear that you were trying to past
yourself off as a third party who discovered this site when in fact it was
your own site. That does not put you in a good light. And yes, I too think
you are planning to fake a bunch of sites. After all, it is interesting that
none of these sites exist right now. Usually when a product is good people
put up sites talking about it without needing the original creator asking for
backup.
Earl Colby Pottinger
--
hagb...@my-deja.com
> > I will admit that I sympathetic to this cause
> > because it is my current belief that one of the
> > possible solutions for stopping the ageing
> > process can come from manpulation of the magnetic
> > fields of the body. To be more specific the
> > magnetic codeing that surronds DNA. TO those
> > others reading this think to yourself it has been
> > proven and it is relativily common knoledge in
> > the scitentfic community that there is an enegery
> > field that surrounds the body
>
> Please cite any scientific studies which have shown that
> a) such a field exists
Quote from:http://www.vxm.com/21R.43.html
Walter Kilner - Interest in the HEF was mounting in the medical
community in the 1900's. In 1911. Walter Kilner, M.D., from St. Thomas
Hospital in London, reported on seeing the HEF, or aura, as he called
it. Looking through glass screens stained with dicyanin dye, he saw a
glowing mist around the body in three distinct zones:
1. A 1/4 inch layer closest to skin;
2. A more vaporous layer, 1 inch wide, streaming perpendicularly from
the body;
3. A delicate exterior luminosity with indefinite contours, about 6
inches wide.
b) what *kind* of "energy" it is
A very good question I dont know but from the research I've done it
seems to reside mostly on the higher end of the electromagnetic
spectrum I am certenly not an expet in this area I am merely trying to
bring you the reasearch that others have done on this matter
and
> b) that this energy has anything at all to do with our
> ability to function. I cannot prove nor do I think that there is
anyone that has but there is a certen amount of common sence that comes
into play here look at it this way: a live power line has an energy
field around it (if you want me to prove that I'll ask you to go to
your local hardware store and buy a device that is able to detect power
lines in your wall by looking for the field it creates) in order to
remove this field you must remove the power from the line.
Quote from:http://www.reiki.org/reikinews/ScienceMeasures.htm
mapping the magnetic fields in the space around the body often provides
a more accurate
indication of physiology and pathology than traditional electrical
measurements.
I have never heard a reputable
> scientist claim any such thing, but I *have* heard many
> New-Age charlatans say it.
It looks like if you wish to use lables such as this then it is easy to
turn a what seemed to be a "reputable scientist" into a "New-Age
charlatans" meerely by what they say or claim. There are insturments
sensative enough to mesure this enegry.
some of the sources I used:
http://www.trans4mind.com/psychotechnics/energyfield.html
http://www.reiki.org/reikinews/ScienceMeasures.htm
http://www.psy.aau.dk/bioelec/
http://www.vxm.com/21R.43.html
Thank you for asking these questions I had a great deal of fun looking
them up. Let me know if you would like more.
alex...@my-deja.com
What the fuck do you mean none of these sites exist? Click on the
links stupid ass!!!!
Jeff Dee
>
> > > I will admit that I sympathetic to this cause
> > > because it is my current belief that one of the
> > > possible solutions for stopping the ageing
> > > process can come from manpulation of the magnetic
> > > fields of the body. To be more specific the
> > > magnetic codeing that surronds DNA. TO those
> > > others reading this think to yourself it has been
> > > proven and it is relativily common knoledge in
> > > the scitentfic community that there is an enegery
> > > field that surrounds the body
> >
> > Please cite any scientific studies which have shown that
> > a) such a field exists
>
> Quote from:http://www.vxm.com/21R.43.html
>
> Walter Kilner - Interest in the HEF was mounting in the medical
> community in the 1900's. In 1911. Walter Kilner, M.D., from St. Thomas
> Hospital in London, reported on seeing the HEF, or aura, as he called
> it. Looking through glass screens stained with dicyanin dye, he saw a
> glowing mist around the body in three distinct zones:
I didn't think I'd have to specify scientific studies
that aren't almost a century out of date. Not that
what you quoted refers to a "scientific study" in the
first place. People report seeing things all the time;
a *scientific study* is a laboratory experiment,
carried out under strict methodological controls,
reviewed by the scientists' peers, and published in a
reputable scientific journal. I see nothing on the
entire page you quoted from which meets those criteria.
> b) what *kind* of "energy" it is
>
> A very good question I dont know but from the research I've done it
> seems to reside mostly on the higher end of the electromagnetic
> spectrum I am certenly not an expet in this area I am merely trying to
> bring you the reasearch that others have done on this matter
> and
I certainly appreciate your efforts. I suppose you can't
be blamed for the fact that the only "research" you can
cite is little more than baseless speculation.
But why are YOU doing research in an area that you clearly
know little or nothing about? You can't even give me a
straight answer about what sort of energy you're referring
to.
> > b) that this energy has anything at all to do with our
> > ability to function.
>
> I cannot prove nor do I think that there is
> anyone that has but there is a certen amount of common sence that comes
> into play here look at it this way: a live power line has an energy
> field around it (if you want me to prove that I'll ask you to go to
> your local hardware store and buy a device that is able to detect power
> lines in your wall by looking for the field it creates) in order to
> remove this field you must remove the power from the line.
I don't deny the existence of electromagnetic fields. I
asked you to cite any scientific studies which have shown
that any energy fields emanating from human beings have
anything at all to do with our ability to function.
> Quote from:http://www.reiki.org/reikinews/ScienceMeasures.htm
>
> mapping the magnetic fields in the space around the body often provides
> a more accurate indication of physiology and pathology than traditional
> electrical measurements.
That is a quote from an article. It is not a scientific
study, which is what I asked for.
> > I have never heard a reputable
> > scientist claim any such thing, but I *have* heard many
> > New-Age charlatans say it.
>
> It looks like if you wish to use lables such as this then it is easy to
> turn a what seemed to be a "reputable scientist" into a "New-Age
> charlatans" meerely by what they say or claim. There are insturments
> sensative enough to mesure this enegry.
Again, I am not denying that magnetic fields exist or
that humans have them. I am asking for valid
scientific studies which show that these fields have
anything at all to do with our ability to function.
Power lines have magnetic fields because there is
electricity moving through them. That's all there is
to it. It's not an indication of the power line's
"health" or "aura". Perhaps that's all there is to
human magnetic fields, too?
> some of the sources I used:
> http://www.trans4mind.com/psychotechnics/energyfield.html
>
> http://www.reiki.org/reikinews/ScienceMeasures.htm
>
> http://www.psy.aau.dk/bioelec/
>
> http://www.vxm.com/21R.43.html
>
> Thank you for asking these questions I had a great deal of fun looking
> them up. Let me know if you would like more.
I don't want "more", because you haven't given me ANY
of what I asked for yet.
hagb...@my-deja.com
on our hands so I have taken the liberty of starting a new fourm you
can find it under SCI.MED: Is there an energy field surrounding the
human body?
I will be posting my reply there thankx.
Jeff Dee
> Jeff thank you for your prompt reply it seems that we have a new debate
> on our hands so I have taken the liberty of starting a new fourm you
> can find it under SCI.MED: Is there an energy field surrounding the
> human body?
>
> I will be posting my reply there thankx.
I'm sure the professional medical scientists there will be
delighted to correct your misconceptions. Personally, I've
already got enough to do combating pseudo science here in
alt.immortal.
hagb...@my-deja.com
Jeff Dee <unig...@io.com> wrote:
> hagb...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Jeff thank you for your prompt reply it seems that we have a new
debate
> > on our hands so I have taken the liberty of starting a new fourm you
> > can find it under SCI.MED: Is there an energy field surrounding the
> > human body?
> >
> > I will be posting my reply there thankx.
>
> I'm sure the professional medical scientists there will be
> delighted to correct your misconceptions. Personally, I've
> already got enough to do combating pseudo science here in
> alt.immortal.
starting to have fun. I also wanted to know what you had to say about
the pictures. Oh well Jeff there's nothing for you to learn here
because you know I'm wrong.
>
> -Jeff Dee
>
> --
> "It is as morally bad not to care whether a thing is true
> or not, so long as it makes you feel good, as it is not to
> care how you got your money as long as you have got it."
> -Edmund Way Teale, "Circle of the Seasons", 1950
>
> unig...@io.com * http://www.io.com/unigames/index.html
> * * * AA #1355 - Knight of the BAAWA since 10/26/99 * * *
>
Jeff Dee
>
> In article <3A6DEF1C...@io.com>,
> Jeff Dee <unig...@io.com> wrote:
> > hagb...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > > Jeff thank you for your prompt reply it seems that we have a new
> debate
> > > on our hands so I have taken the liberty of starting a new fourm you
> > > can find it under SCI.MED: Is there an energy field surrounding the
> > > human body?
> > >
> > > I will be posting my reply there thankx.
> >
> > I'm sure the professional medical scientists there will be
> > delighted to correct your misconceptions. Personally, I've
> > already got enough to do combating pseudo science here in
> > alt.immortal.
> You mean you dident read my reply I'm so dissappointed I was just
> starting to have fun. I also wanted to know what you had to say about
> the pictures. Oh well Jeff there's nothing for you to learn here
> because you know I'm wrong.
All I know is that you didn't respond to my first request
for valid evidence. I'm sure the medical scientists in
sci.med will ask for the same thing. And when you fail to
provide it again, I suppose you'll cop this same attitude:
blaming US for YOUR inability to support your beliefs.
Denis Loubet
and post a subject header like "Alex Cheui. U ain't shit!"
It'll happen.
Denis Loubet
dlo...@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
tribal...@spamarolaids.earthlink.net
message in news:alt.immortal, which said:
> All I know is that you didn't respond to my first request for valid
> evidence. I'm sure the medical scientists in sci.med will ask for the
> same thing. And when you fail to provide it again, I suppose you'll cop
> this same attitude: blaming US for YOUR inability to support your
> beliefs.
It's impossible to provide evidence supporting the kind of immortality I
believe in because it's faith-based. I'm not talking about Bible-thumping
Jesus immortality, but "help yourself" immortality -- "Nature's Way"
immortality. In your eyes, however, there probably isn't much difference.
I have conceeded in the past that I would be willing to use life extension
technologies such as genetic therapies, if for no other reason than to have
more time to figure out how I can contemplate my way to independent,
physical immortality.
Vocabulary Class:
independent immortality - the ability to live forever free of man-made
devices and procedures.
dependent immortality - the ability to live forever with the aid of man-made
devices and procedures.
The way I see it, neither independent immortality nor dependent immortality
are in full practice at this moment, so as far as I'm concerned, it's no
waste of time to play around with alternative ideas about immortality. I'm
no scientist, therefore the best I could do is read more about dependent
immortality AND independent immortality. If I can't figure out independent
immortality between now and the time dependent immortality becomes a
reality, then perhaps I'll consider becoming part human, part android.
Damaeus
Jeff Dee
>
> Jeff Dee <unig...@io.com> said:
>
> > All I know is that you didn't respond to my first request for valid
> > evidence. I'm sure the medical scientists in sci.med will ask for the
> > same thing. And when you fail to provide it again, I suppose you'll cop
> > this same attitude: blaming US for YOUR inability to support your
> > beliefs.
>
> It's impossible to provide evidence supporting the kind of immortality I
> believe in because it's faith-based. I'm not talking about Bible-thumping
> Jesus immortality, but "help yourself" immortality -- "Nature's Way"
> immortality. In your eyes, however, there probably isn't much difference.
There could be a *lot* of difference, but if there is
you haven't made it clear yet. The words "faith based
belief" appear to mean "belief based on belief", which
is circular and therefor irrational. But when you go
on to say "Nature's Way", you appear to be talking
about the observable, physical processes of nature -
which leaves me wondering why you think they're
impossible to support with evidence. Science has made
a remarkable amount of headway in that area so far.
> I have conceeded in the past that I would be willing to use life extension
> technologies such as genetic therapies, if for no other reason than to have
> more time to figure out how I can contemplate my way to independent,
> physical immortality.
>
> Vocabulary Class:
>
> independent immortality - the ability to live forever free of man-made
> devices and procedures.
>
> dependent immortality - the ability to live forever with the aid of man-made
> devices and procedures.
Wouldn't any effort toward guiding the evolutionary
process into making us be immortal require aid from
a "man made procedure"? Again, evolution simply WILL
NOT make us immortal on its own. There are no natural
selection pressures to weed out the mortal humans
before they breed and pass on their genes.
> The way I see it, neither independent immortality nor dependent immortality
> are in full practice at this moment, so as far as I'm concerned, it's no
> waste of time to play around with alternative ideas about immortality.
Fine, but don't expect anyone else to take those
ideas seriously unless you can support them with
evidence.
> I'm
> no scientist, therefore the best I could do is read more about dependent
> immortality AND independent immortality. If I can't figure out independent
> immortality between now and the time dependent immortality becomes a
> reality, then perhaps I'll consider becoming part human, part android.
That seems reasonable.
tint...@my-deja.com
http://www.healthmall.com/newsletter.cfm?type=article&id=1043&a=
In article <93mjlk$vnj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
alex...@my-deja.com wrote:
> The way to eternal life?
>
> The other day I stumbled on a site that seemed to do some outrageous
> claims. It's set up by Alex Chiu who says he invented a device that
can
> give eternal life! Wow... that's long!
>
> To achieve "eternal life" he says all that one should do is daily wear
> some rings he has made when you sleep. These are not just normal
rings:
> they hold some magnets. These magnets are supposed to correct the
> magnetic flow through the body which has for effect that the body is
> healed and the aging process "reversed" (or countered). He explains
> exactly how this works on his site.
>
> Obviously, it could take a while to see if he could be right about
> it... But on his site he has tons of testimonials that seem quite
> genuine. If the rings don't give eternal life, then they sure seem to
> do A LOT of good for ones health. People do seem to get in better
shape
> starting within 24 hrs, and feel notably better in just 2 weeks. The
> rings seem to cause all sorts of healing and really improve people's
> lifes.
>
> Now I know for a fact that the best identified reason why the body
ages
> is because the telomers of body cells shorten and the telomerase (an
> enzyme that is supposed to counter the shortening of the telomers)
gets
> used up over the years. One of the ways to counter this is by avoiding
> to drain the body from its enzymes (and consume enzyme supplements if
> necessary), and have a sufficient intake of minerals and vitamins.
This
> means f.i. that one should avoid eating cooked and processed food (as
> when cooked or processed, food takes more enzymes from the body to be
> digested).
>
> So if the rings really heal body tissues, like f.i. scars (as some
have
> testified), then they might also heal the telomers, and then (maybe,
as
> this is an unverified speculation) THIS COULD WORK!
>
> Anyway, I haven't tried them myself yet, but I will soon. To me the
guy
> doesn't seem to be a hustler, especially if you consider the fact that
> on his site he even explains how to make the rings yourself, for those
> who don't want to (or can't) buy it!
>
> If you like to look for yourself, go to
> http://www.alexchiu.com/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=albert2
>
> Don't miss the testimonial page for some interesting stories!
>
> Peace and health.
>
Jeff Dee
>
> A point for Alex, or more voodoo?
>
> http://www.healthmall.com/newsletter.cfm?type=article&id=1043&a=
It's impossible to tell without knowing whether her studies
have been subjected to peer review, replicated by skeptical
scientists, etc. Of course that's the very sort of thing
these "alternative medicine" folks constantly seek to avoid.
It's much easier to take people's money when you don't have
to prove you're actually doing them any good.
hagb...@my-deja.com
pictures? Have you looked? Are you afraid to look? Have you given up
on me? Or do you not want to leave the imortal realm? You still
havent told me what you argument is. Are you saying it is common
scientific knoledge that there is no energy field around the human body?
Denis Loubet
<alex...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94isla$rou$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <Qd6b6.3808$9v2....@quark.idirect.com>,
(SNIP)
> What the fuck do you mean none of these sites exist? Click on the
> links stupid ass!!!!
Hey, Alex, I got some questions for you.
1. Does your bracelet make all of me immortal, or just my wrist?
2. How about my intestinal flora? Are you promoting immortal echoli?
3. Are all my cells rendered immortal? What will the mites around my
eyelashes eat?
4. If my cells are all immortal, will they stop dividing? If they don't,
won't I grow to gigantic proportions?
5. Will I be infested with immortal diseases and cancers that were present
when I started using the bracelet?
6. If you put it on a dead person, will it embalm them?
7. What if you made a really big bracelet that circled the globe like
Saturn's rings? Would everything on earth be immortal then?
I can't sleep!
cheui
Jeff Dee
> This a very reasonable Jeff, tell me what do you think about the
> pictures? Have you looked?
No.
> Are you afraid to look?
No.
> Have you given up on me?
Yes.
> Or do you not want to leave the imortal realm?
You mean the alt.immortal newsgroup? Yes, I prefer to
limit the number of newsgroups I participate in to a
manageable few, including this one.
> You still
> havent told me what you argument is.
I haven't got an argument, because you haven't presented
anything worth arguing with. I'm still waiting for
answers to my questions.
> Are you saying it is common
> scientific knoledge that there is no energy field around the human body?
No. If you recall, I said:
"I don't deny the existence of electromagnetic fields. I
asked you to cite any scientific studies which have shown
that any energy fields emanating from human beings have
anything at all to do with our ability to function."
Photos of "auras" do nothing to address this question.
-Jeff Dee
--
"It is as morally bad not to care whether a thing is true
or not, so long as it makes you feel good, as it is not to
care how you got your money as long as you have got it."
-Edmund Way Teale, "Circle of the Seasons", 1950
unig...@io.com * http://www.io.com/unigames/index.html
* * * AA #1355 - Knight of the BAAWA since 10/26/99 * * *
Randall Parker
discussions may be interesting but they are off-topic for sci.life-
extension.
I realize that someone else selling snake oil originally started the
cross-post. So I'm not ragging on you. Just asking politely.
On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:44:23 GMT esteemed Jeff Dee did'st hold forth
thusly:
tribal...@spamarolaids.earthlink.net
message in news:alt.immortal, which said:
> 2. How about my intestinal flora? Are you promoting immortal echoli?
hahahaah
> 3. Are all my cells rendered immortal? What will the mites around my
> eyelashes eat?
ROTFLMAO!
> 7. What if you made a really big bracelet that circled the globe like
> Saturn's rings? Would everything on earth be immortal then?
Now that's a good idea. If Alex is the prophet of the messiah, surely they
would have the power to build a giant ring around the planet!
Praise be to Alex Chiu!
Olah saleemah!
Salami baloney!
Baloney salami!
Damaeus
tribal...@spamarolaids.earthlink.net
<rgpa...@west.net> posted a message in news:alt.immortal,
which said:
> Could you folks stop cross-posting in
> sci.life-extension then? Your discussions may be
> interesting but they are off-topic for sci.life-
> extension.
Perhaps you'd care to explain for my entertainment, and for
Jeff Dee's information, the difference between life
extension and immortality. I believe immortality is life
without end. To be immortal, one would have to have no
doubts about his ability to continue living under ANY
circumstance. If one dies just because he walks on the
surface of the sun, then he was never immortal to begin
with.
I believe life extension is the result of medicine, genetic
engineering and the integration of robotics and humans. One
who has lived beyond a major heart attack is not immortal
just because he's received a pacemaker. His life has simply
been extended. Similarly, just because one has a mechanical
heart implanted to keep his blood pumping past the age of
120, doesn't necessarily mean that he will not die at some
point in the future, perhaps from walking on the sun. If he
fears walking on the sun because he fears death, then he
fears death because he realizes he is not truly immortal.
Damaeus
alex...@my-deja.com
anything we want. Im Alex Chiu, the immortal man. Who the hell are
u?
In article <MPG.14da21d34...@news.onlynews.com>,
John 'De Man'
news:949nh1$i8u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <949hif$ci5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> alex...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > People, visit http://www.alexchiu.com
> > Now I have a web ring for the users of Immortality Device. If people
> > don't believe the testimonials on my site, go check out the web ring
> > and visit other people's site. Other people be writing testimonials
> > on their own sites.
> > Jeff Dee is a complete asshole, so don't listen to him. He never
> > tried ...
Well, I see that even sci.life-extension is NOT immune from 'Mindlessly
Barking Dog Syndrome?'
Gee, ... So Called Scientists: ... Which is worst ... the Disease or the
Cure for Spam?
Ever notice how Dogs often run barking mindlessly after cars down the
highway?
All you guys are living at the level of the Dog who runs mindlessly barking
after cars on the highway. You have my condolences. :-(
--
John Gohde,
Achieving good health is an Art, NOT a Science!
Introducing www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com -- a simple health program that
really works!
The informational content has been finalized.
A "Highlight" section now provides the major points of each webpage.
Jeff Dee
>
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:42:56 GMT, Randall Parker said:
>
> > Could you folks stop cross-posting in
> > sci.life-extension then? Your discussions may be
> > interesting but they are off-topic for sci.life-
> > extension.
(sci.life-extension group deleted as per Randall's request)
> Perhaps you'd care to explain for my entertainment, and for
> Jeff Dee's information, the difference between life
> extension and immortality. I believe immortality is life
> without end. To be immortal, one would have to have no
> doubts about his ability to continue living under ANY
> circumstance. If one dies just because he walks on the
> surface of the sun, then he was never immortal to begin
> with.
>
> I believe life extension is the result of medicine, genetic
> engineering and the integration of robotics and humans. One
> who has lived beyond a major heart attack is not immortal
> just because he's received a pacemaker. His life has simply
> been extended. Similarly, just because one has a mechanical
> heart implanted to keep his blood pumping past the age of
> 120, doesn't necessarily mean that he will not die at some
> point in the future, perhaps from walking on the sun. If he
> fears walking on the sun because he fears death, then he
> fears death because he realizes he is not truly immortal.
Every bit of evidence we have indicates that consciousness
requires a physical processor. Physical objects are subject
to destruction by sufficient physical force. So if you're
saying that it's inappropriate to use the term "immortal"
for anything that's destructible, then you can't reasonably
use that term for ANYTHING conscious.
As a matter of fact, MY dictionary at least makes the word
"immortal" synonymous with "enduring" - and uses the
Pyramids in Egypt in a sample sentence showing how the
word is used. I think you will agree that with sufficient
physical force, the pyramids could be destroyed. Apparently
that's immortal enough to suit the good folks at Webster's.
Instead of clinging to a limited definition of immortality
that PRECLUDES any reasonable application to conscious
beings, why not accept the broader definition that
describes something which actually may be possible?
tribal...@spamarolaids.earthlink.net
<De...@NaturalHealthPerspective.com> posted message
http://www.deja.com/msgid.xp?MID=<1X7c6.139$OR1....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
in news:alt.immortal, which said:
> Ever notice how Dogs often run barking mindlessly after cars down the
> highway?
>
> All you guys are living at the level of the Dog who runs mindlessly barking
> after cars on the highway. You have my condolences. :-(
Dogs do that because it's fun. I do it because it's fun. If you've lost the
ability to have fun, then YOU have *MY* condolences.
Damaeus
tribal...@spamarolaids.earthlink.net
http://www.deja.com/msgid.xp?MID=<3A7111E9...@io.com> in
news:alt.immortal, which said:
> tribal...@spamarolaids.earthlink.net wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:42:56 GMT, Randall Parker said:
> >
> > > Could you folks stop cross-posting in
> > > sci.life-extension then? Your discussions may be
> > > interesting but they are off-topic for sci.life-
> > > extension.
>
> (sci.life-extension group deleted as per Randall's request)
sci.life-extension added back since this is a new topic that deals with both
life extension and immortality, and the differences thereof.
> > Perhaps you'd care to explain for my entertainment, and for
> > Jeff Dee's information, the difference between life
> > extension and immortality. I believe immortality is life
> > without end. To be immortal, one would have to have no
> > doubts about his ability to continue living under ANY
> > circumstance. If one dies just because he walks on the
> > surface of the sun, then he was never immortal to begin
> > with.
> >
> > I believe life extension is the result of medicine, genetic
> > engineering and the integration of robotics and humans. One
> > who has lived beyond a major heart attack is not immortal
> > just because he's received a pacemaker. His life has simply
> > been extended. Similarly, just because one has a mechanical
> > heart implanted to keep his blood pumping past the age of
> > 120, doesn't necessarily mean that he will not die at some
> > point in the future, perhaps from walking on the sun. If he
> > fears walking on the sun because he fears death, then he
> > fears death because he realizes he is not truly immortal.
>
> Every bit of evidence we have indicates that consciousness
> requires a physical processor. Physical objects are subject
> to destruction by sufficient physical force. So if you're
> saying that it's inappropriate to use the term "immortal"
> for anything that's destructible, then you can't reasonably
> use that term for ANYTHING conscious.
Therefore immortality does not exist.
> As a matter of fact, MY dictionary at least makes the word
> "immortal" synonymous with "enduring" - and uses the
> Pyramids in Egypt in a sample sentence showing how the
> word is used.
The pyramids in Egypt are not immortal. Yes, they've been around for a long
time, but over the ages, the surfaces of the pyramids have deteriorated.
Eventually they will be gone, though it may take another 10,000 years. They
are not immortal.
I think you will agree that with sufficient
> physical force, the pyramids could be destroyed. Apparently
> that's immortal enough to suit the good folks at Webster's.
At www.m-w.com there are two noun definitions and one adjective definition for
"immortal". One's fame can be immortal, but that does not mean he will not be
forgotten in, say, 200,000 years. Jesus' fame is immortal in a symbolic
sense, but one day, he, too, could be forgotten.
> Instead of clinging to a limited definition of immortality
> that PRECLUDES any reasonable application to conscious
> beings, why not accept the broader definition that
> describes something which actually may be possible?
Now who has lost touch with reality? The reality is, immortality is not
possible at this time, in the way you're describing. Life extension IS
possible. Replacing life extension with immortality does not make it so. You
can call it immortality until the moon turns to green cheese and it still
won't be true immortality.
Damaeus
Jeff Dee
>
> Jeff Dee <unig...@io.com> said:
>
> > tribal...@spamarolaids.earthlink.net wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:42:56 GMT, Randall Parker said:
> > >
> > > > Could you folks stop cross-posting in
> > > > sci.life-extension then? Your discussions may be
> > > > interesting but they are off-topic for sci.life-
> > > > extension.
> >
> > (sci.life-extension group deleted as per Randall's request)
>
> sci.life-extension added back since this is a new topic that deals with both
> life extension and immortality, and the differences thereof.
(sci.life-extension deleted again because I'm not
a discourteous cross-posting troll).
To be precise, immortal conscious beings cannot exist,
by your unnecessarily limited definition of the word.
They can only exist by the broader, equally legitimate
definition which *I* use.
> > As a matter of fact, MY dictionary at least makes the word
> > "immortal" synonymous with "enduring" - and uses the
> > Pyramids in Egypt in a sample sentence showing how the
> > word is used.
>
> The pyramids in Egypt are not immortal. Yes, they've been around for a long
> time, but over the ages, the surfaces of the pyramids have deteriorated.
> Eventually they will be gone, though it may take another 10,000 years. They
> are not immortal.
Then send a letter of complaint to Webster's. I am not
in charge of making up definitions, and neither are you.
> I think you will agree that with sufficient
> > physical force, the pyramids could be destroyed. Apparently
> > that's immortal enough to suit the good folks at Webster's.
>
> At www.m-w.com there are two noun definitions and one adjective definition for
> "immortal". One's fame can be immortal, but that does not mean he will not be
> forgotten in, say, 200,000 years. Jesus' fame is immortal in a symbolic
> sense, but one day, he, too, could be forgotten.
BINGO. There is nothing wrong with calling something
that lasts an extraordinarily long time "immortal"
in that symbolic sense. That's what Webster's meant
when they called the Pyramids immortal, and that's
what *I* mean when I call a physical being with no
built-in obsolescence an immortal. Sure, he could be
vaporized when the sun goes nova. So what?
> > Instead of clinging to a limited definition of immortality
> > that PRECLUDES any reasonable application to conscious
> > beings, why not accept the broader definition that
> > describes something which actually may be possible?
>
> Now who has lost touch with reality? The reality is, immortality is not
> possible at this time, in the way you're describing.
What I'm describing is not only possible, it exists. There
are already microorganisms that do not wear out on their
own, and continue to live until some outside force
destroys them. Your refusal to use the word "immortality"
to describe that is your own problem.
> Life extension IS possible.
It's not only possible, it's been done. Caloric restriction
has doubled the average life expectancy of mice, for
example.
> Replacing life extension with immortality does not make it so.
I'm not. I'm calling anything with no built-in expiration
date an immortal. In a symbolic sense, the same way you
just called Jesus' fame "immortal".
> You
> can call it immortality until the moon turns to green cheese and it still
> won't be true immortality.
Since you just agreed that there's no such thing as "true"
immortality, symbolic immortality is as close as we're
going to get. You can complain until YOU turn into green
cheese, and I still won't stop using the word. Its symbolic
meaning is entirely valid, and too useful to throw away.
hagb...@my-deja.com
Jeff Dee <unig...@io.com> wrote:
> hagb...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > This a very reasonable Jeff, tell me what do you think about the
> > pictures? Have you looked?
>
> No.
>
> > Are you afraid to look?
>
> No.
>
> > Have you given up on me?
>
> Yes.
>
> > Or do you not want to leave the imortal realm?
>
> You mean the alt.immortal newsgroup? Yes, I prefer to
> limit the number of newsgroups I participate in to a
> manageable few, including this one.
> > You still
> > havent told me what you argument is.
>
> I haven't got an argument, because you haven't presented
> anything worth arguing with. I'm still waiting for
> answers to my questions.
>
> > Are you saying it is common
> > scientific knoledge that there is no energy field around the human
body?
>
> No. If you recall, I said:
>
> "I don't deny the existence of electromagnetic fields. I
> asked you to cite any scientific studies which have shown
> that any energy fields emanating from human beings have
> anything at all to do with our ability to function."
>
> Photos of "auras" do nothing to address this question.
evidence of such an energy field existing. Comon tell me you have
looked havent you. Tell me what you think are they a fake? I sent
real time on this Jeff what have you done besides take 3Min to type
something about unfounded claims I've made? Comon jeff havent you
learned anything I sure have.
Jeff Dee
> > hagb...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > > Are you saying it is common
> > > scientific knoledge that there is no energy field around the human
> > > body?
> >
> > No. If you recall, I said:
> >
> > "I don't deny the existence of electromagnetic fields. I
> > asked you to cite any scientific studies which have shown
> > that any energy fields emanating from human beings have
> > anything at all to do with our ability to function."
> >
> > Photos of "auras" do nothing to address this question.
> You had questions Jeff I think the first of which was be to provide
> evidence of such an energy field existing.
My questions, again, were:
> > Please cite any scientific studies which have shown that
> > a) such a field exists
To which you responded by citing a "report" (not a
scientific study) from 1911!
> > b) what *kind* of "energy" it is
To which you replied:
> I dont know but from the research I've done it seems
> to reside mostly on the higher end of the electromagnetic
> spectrum I am certenly not an expet in this area
In other words, you couldn't give me a straight answer.
> > c) that this energy has anything at all to do with our
> > ability to function.
To which you replied:
> I cannot prove nor do I think that there is anyone that
> has but there is a certen amount of common sence that
> comes into play here look at it this way: a live power
> line has an energy field around it (if you want me to
> prove that I'll ask you to go to your local hardware
> store and buy a device that is able to detect power
> lines in your wall by looking for the field it creates)
> in order to remove this field you must remove the power
> from the line.
Of course the magnetic fields around power lines have
NOTHING to do with my question, and it was at this point
that I happily conceded the existence of magnetic fields.
> Comon tell me you have looked havent you.
No. I simply assumed, once you mentioned "pictures", that
you were parroting back the same tired old nonsense that
every other believer in this stuff brings up.
> Tell me what you think are they a fake?
"Fake"? Well, I don't think anybody painted them by hand.
I just think you're misinterpreting what they show.
> I sent
> real time on this Jeff what have you done besides take 3Min to type
> something about unfounded claims I've made?
I've been listening to these claims for decades, and
checking to see what the actual facts are.
> Comon jeff havent you learned anything I sure have.
Really? Then what's on this web page shouldn't surprise
you:
http://www.skepdic.com/kirlian.html
rjk3
Jeff Dee <unig...@io.com> wrote:
Jeff- Why are you, a rationalist, wasting your time debating someone
whose psyche dwells in the mythological dreamtime of our neolithic
forebearers?
There is an old saying: Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes
your time, and it annoys the pig.
That goes for Trybaldoldballgame too.
> tribal...@spamarolaids.earthlink.net wrote:
> >
> > Jeff Dee <unig...@io.com> said:
> >
> > > tribal...@spamarolaids.earthlink.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:42:56 GMT, Randall Parker said:
> > > >
blah blah blah deleted.
Jeff Dee
>
> Jeff Dee <unig...@io.com> wrote:
>
> Jeff- Why are you, a rationalist, wasting your time debating someone
> whose psyche dwells in the mythological dreamtime of our neolithic
> forebearers?
>
> There is an old saying: Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes
> your time, and it annoys the pig.
>
> That goes for Trybaldoldballgame too.
Because he's not a pig, and because he's not alone. If it
was just one lone kook who believed this stuff, then I
wouldn't bother.
rjk3
Jeff Dee <unig...@io.com> wrote:
> rjk3 wrote:
> >
> > Jeff Dee <unig...@io.com> wrote:
> >
> > Jeff- Why are you, a rationalist, wasting your time debating someone
> > whose psyche dwells in the mythological dreamtime of our neolithic
> > forebearers?
> >
> > There is an old saying: Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes
> > your time, and it annoys the pig.
> >
> > That goes for Trybaldoldballgame too.
>
> Because he's not a pig, and because he's not alone. If it
> was just one lone kook who believed this stuff, then I
> wouldn't bother.
>
> -Jeff Dee
>
But if you teach an ass to sing, the braying will drive you mad.
hagb...@my-deja.com
Jeff Dee <unig...@io.com> wrote:
> rjk3 wrote:
> >
> > Jeff Dee <unig...@io.com> wrote:
> >
> > Jeff- Why are you, a rationalist, wasting your time debating someone
> > whose psyche dwells in the mythological dreamtime of our neolithic
> > forebearers?
> >
> > There is an old saying: Never try to teach a pig to sing. It
wastes
> > your time, and it annoys the pig.
> >
> > That goes for Trybaldoldballgame too.
>
> Because he's not a pig, and because he's not alone. If it
> was just one lone kook who believed this stuff, then I
> wouldn't bother.
>
> -Jeff Dee
>
alone, however I also am not "someone whose psyche dwells in the
mythological dreamtime of our neolithic forebearers" or a kook because
those are labels and I am not a lable. I'm not sure why you feel it
nessarry to insult me,have I done something to offend you persanally?
hagb...@my-deja.com
new information there for me though (moisture relateing to size).
I also followed several of the links there, some good arguments
they make a lot of sence. They still fail to debunk a few of the things
I have seen assocated with kirlian photos.
The weakest point that I found in the arguments there was there
explanation for the "fantom limb", which was eather from resdue
moisture left from when the leaf was whole or just outright fruad.
Seems weak to me.
The thing I dont understand Jeff is that the only claim I have made
was that it was common scientific knoledge that there was an energy
field around the human body (which by the way I retract, there is to
much assocation bewtween this and spiruatilty for mainstream science to
approach objectivly), when you have admitted in your postings here that
there is. The rest of what I wrote was speculation.