CIA Terrorism
William Langston
theories are made of. Just EXACTLY what does direct and indirect support
mean? It could mean anything but from the entire posting it implies that
they were the ones that killed everyone and are the bad evil CIA that
you always claim them to be.
Yours truly, Bill langston.
Ralph McGehee wrote:
>
The commission found the
> "government of the United States, through various agencies including
> the CIA, provided direct and indirect support for some state operations."
rmcg...@igc.org
than I suggest you get a copy of the report and
apply your energies to commenting on it.
Ralph McGehee
http://come.to/CIABASE
In article <36D705B4...@iosa.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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rmcg...@igc.org
support comment was mine.
Direct support -- the Phoenix program in Vietnam was established,
funded, and directed by the CIA. A CIA Phoneix officer credited
this program with approximately 35,000 assassinations in
about a seven year period.
Indirect support -- the composition of Watch Lists, and passing them
authorities supporting Death squads -- as I said a universal a
practice of CIA.
Ralph
Joe Schlatter
--
Regards,
Joe Schlatter
j...@schlatter.org
http://www.schlatter.org/
http://www.miafacts.org/
http://www.asphome.org/
Amateur radio callsign W4HH
rmcg...@igc.org wrote in message <7b8jvv$5e6$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
William Langston
your assessment of the CIA but I do admit that they have made serious
blunders, we all have.
The thing that frosts my balls, and it started when I was in the NSA and
saw things in the newspapers that I new for a fact to be outright lies,
was how the whole country can form an opinion based on an implied
statement. That is why when I read your simple paragraph stating 'direct
and indirect' support, I said to myself that could mean anything. You
see, it's just like Klinton's meaning of what 'is' is. It could mean
99.9 percent indirect support and .1 percent direct and still be true
but the implication from reading your post was more like they were 99.9
percent involved and .1 percent indirectly involved.
I believe that you only want to make the CIA better, I just don't agree
with you on your assessment of how bad they are. I was on the 'inside'
too so I look at some things with a slightly different perspective than
the other vets here.
Semper Fi, Bill Langston.
Ted Gittinger
>support comment was mine.
>
>Direct support -- the Phoenix program in Vietnam was established,
>funded, and directed by the CIA. A CIA Phoneix officer credited
>this program with approximately 35,000 assassinations in
>about a seven year period.
Your figures are subject to severe questioning, but in any case, it was a
*war*, was it not? And the Phoenix program went after the NLF
infrastructure, and its methods and results have been debated ad infinitum.
So what is the supposedly new point you are bringing up here? I mean, we
have been going over the Phoenix Program for over twenty years, and Colby et
al have been largely exonerated. Or do you disagree?
I bet I know the answer to that one.
Warm regards,
ted gittinger
the Dave
Ted Gittinger <te...@redbud.lbjlib.utexas.edu> wrote:
> I mean, we have been going over the Phoenix Program for over twenty
> years, and Colby et al have been largely exonerated. Or do you
> disagree?
Colby and friends were "exonerated" by their own government. This is
the judicial equivalent of Nazis judging other Nazis innocent at
Nuremburg. (Notice I said "judicial", not "moral"--I'm not implying
that the Phoenix Program was as bad as the death camps in WWII.) The
result can't be taken seriously unless the judgement is rendered by
a disinterested third party.
Bill Clarke
Ted Gittinger wrote in message <7ba5m7$gvu$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>...
>
>
>Your figures are subject to severe questioning, but in any case, it was a
>*war*, was it not? And the Phoenix program went after the NLF
>infrastructure, and its methods and results have been debated ad infinitum.
>have been going over the Phoenix Program for over twenty years, and Colby
et
>al have been largely exonerated. Or do you disagree?
>
>
>Warm regards,
>
>ted gittinger
>
My question is, why did we wait so long to begin the Phoenix Program?
Bill Clarke
F Troop, 17th Cav
Ted Gittinger
the Dave wrote in message <7ba6f7$952$1...@hiram.io.com>...
>>
>Colby and friends were "exonerated" by their own government. This is
>the judicial equivalent of Nazis judging other Nazis innocent at
>Nuremburg. (Notice I said "judicial", not "moral"--I'm not implying
>that the Phoenix Program was as bad as the death camps in WWII.) The
>result can't be taken seriously unless the judgement is rendered by
>a disinterested third party.
The Pike Committee et al. were hardly a bunch of friendly back-slapping good
old boys where intelligence abuses were concerned. Still, there are those
who would have preferred Bertrand Russell's group, I reckon.
Warm regards,
ted
Ted Gittinger
Ted Willies wrote in message <7bcp5a$r6c$1...@nw003t.infi.net>...
>>ted, I must be having a "senior moment" as far as the Pike Committee is
>concerned. Could you help me out? I do remember the Church Committee.
>
>Regards, Ted Willies
>
And just wotinell gives you exclusive rights to senior moments?
You mean there wasn't a Pike Committee, too? And as I am at home I got no
references--well, Pike, Church, take your pick; it was the same scenario,
prettymuch. Sigh.
Warm regards,
ted
Lee
Ted Gittinger <te...@redbud.lbjlib.utexas.edu> wrote
>references--well, Pike, Church, take your pick; it was the same
scenario,
>prettymuch. Sigh.
I duuno about Pike, but don't *even* get me started on Frank Church!
Lee
Ted Willies
rmcg...@igc.org
articles indexes for information on this.
Do these constitute conspiracy theories?
Ralph McGehee
Ted Willies
Mr. McGegee: Would you please let us know why a newspaper article rehashing
well-known information on the CIA involvement in Guatemala in 1954 constitutes
further evidence of a CIA conspiracy to randomly murder, rape and pillage
around the world, as you would have us believe?
Your constant postings of ancient history do nothing to enhance your claim that
the CIA is evil incarnate. You merely serve to solidify your position as a
disgruntled former employee.
And please don't refer me to your letters of commendation. I read them on your
web site. I have written too many of those to give them any credence whatever.
Regards, Ted Willies
rmcg...@igc.org
a dozen more. The information has little to do with Guatemala
in 54 rather in the 80s. The information is based on declassified
documents from the CIA, the State department and others.
Ralph Mcgehee
http://come.to/CIABASE
In article <7beeo7$ga0$1...@nw001t.infi.net>,
William Langston
referred to. I still stand by what I said, nothing in that article
changed it.
rmcg...@igc.org
U.S. government documents. If you do not believe those sources, please
advise what would you believe. The same information was given in the
New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and many others. If none
of these sources can impact on your views then?
Ralph McGehee
http://come.to/CIABASE
As statedIn article <36DAE6F3...@iosa.com>,
William Langston
respect the free press just like I respect the right of that shit head
in California to put up his pictures of Uncle Ho. It's just that I feel
that the stuff we read and the actual facts can be somewhat different
and we, the populace, form our opinions from a one-sided base. That's
all.
Yours truly, Bill Langston.
P.S. It's just not my crusade, Ralph, it's yours.\
Ted Willies
Bill, it's just that this guy is willing to believe that anything even remotely
critical of the CIA is tantamount to revealed truth, while any defense of the
Agency is evidence that the writer is part of some conspiracy. It is clear to
me why McGehee got fired. He is a lousy analyst. He accepts newspaper
articles as gospel rather than looking at the documents on which they were
based. Why doesn't he post the originals? If his sources are as pervasive as
he wants us to believe, then he certainly could get them. Until he starts
showing a little more professionalism in his reporting, no serious person will
accept his theories.
Regards, Ted Willies
Edward Combs Jr.
could hope for is jail. As you say you will discuss anything except "Methods
and Sources" . Two reasons pop to mind . One, you love your country and two,
your debriefing says it you do you go to jail.
...................
Ted Willies wrote in message <7bh3fv$jv$1...@nw003t.infi.net>...
Ted Willies
Let me try to keep this simple.
1. McGehee is relying on an article that appeared in (among other places) the
Washington Post. The article said it was based on "a report". There is no
reference to who wrote the report, what it was based on, or anything else. The
Post article was clearly labeled as an Editorial. As with most editorials, it
makes no attempt at balance. The events in question happened in the late
1950's. There is very little, if anything, about those events in Guatemala
that are not in the public domain. If McGehee is the analyst that he professes
to be, then he knows that he should not accept a newspaper editorial as "proof"
of CIA perfidity.
2. In the reference I made to discussing anything except sources and methods, I
think you will find that I was refering to my own service in the intelligence
business, not anything else. I also excluded discussion of capabilities, if
you will recall. I know what my debriefing said. I also know how long the HAG
was for. (Do you know what yours was?) I also know what the National Security
Act says in this regard.
3. If you want to believe this guy, fine with me. It's a free country. Even
conspiracy theorists have First Amendment rights.
Regards, Ted Willies
Edward Combs Jr.
while working there and if I passed a former co-worker I was not to
acknowledge them. The SIOPS information was ...not discuss for ten years for
ten year and then in only generalities...i.e., There were a bunch of SAMs
around the lower part of Sakhalin to protect the submarine base, but not
types and locations(even if I could remember).
I don't think McGehee can quote from even his own reports. Like many of us
I'm sure McGehee has an agenda, but like I told a CIA man in the CORDs Club
in Can Tho(I don't if his name was Mr. White or Mr. Black or Mr. Brown or
Mr. Greens), anyway he was saying that military Intel. units collected stuff
from "paper mills" and it took the Agency a lot time to sourt it all out. He
felt that the military should not be in the collection of intelligence. I
said; "Yes! But with the military all the lairs are on the other side." He
got up and walked off. The other Agency man sitting with turned Green and
left).
..................
Ted Willies wrote in message <7bhhjt$vvg$1...@nw001t.infi.net>...
Ted Willies
says...
>
>Part of my debriefing said that I was to never contact any one I had known
>while working there and if I passed a former co-worker I was not to
>acknowledge them. The SIOPS information was ...not discuss for ten years for
>ten year and then in only generalities...i.e., There were a bunch of SAMs
>around the lower part of Sakhalin to protect the submarine base, but not
>types and locations(even if I could remember).
>I don't think McGehee can quote from even his own reports. Like many of us
>I'm sure McGehee has an agenda, but like I told a CIA man in the CORDs Club
>in Can Tho(I don't if his name was Mr. White or Mr. Black or Mr. Brown or
>Mr. Greens), anyway he was saying that military Intel. units collected stuff
>from "paper mills" and it took the Agency a lot time to sourt it all out. He
>felt that the military should not be in the collection of intelligence. I
>said; "Yes! But with the military all the lairs are on the other side." He
>got up and walked off. The other Agency man sitting with turned Green and
>left).
>..................
>
(Where to begin..?) Ed, remember the Lt and the Circle Sportif? Obviously,
that was not the only time your chain was jerked. Ah, well, enough. I retire
from this area. I leave it to Combs and McGehee. Good Luck.
Best Regards, Ted Willies
Edward Combs Jr.
Not just everybody could get into the CORDS IV Commissary and recreation
Association(read Bar & Grill. My card # was 000090, signed Lt. McKay Jr.).
I told this once in another post, but being old I will tell it again.
We had a project where we needed a means of recording the source without him
knowing it. We requested a briefcase from THE AGENCY. They sent us a
briefcase that looked like something from an old 1937 Charlie Chan movie,
but that was not all the mic. was in the latch and if you were not very
careful it would let out a loud noise(like a stage mic.). This was 1970 so I
am fairly sure that there were better devices for loan.
Of course what you think......is what you think!
..........................
Ted Willies wrote in message <7bhto3$iol$1...@nw001t.infi.net>...
rmcg...@igc.org
Pls see my web site for details.
Ralph McGehee
http://come.to/CIABASE
In article <7bh3fv$jv$1...@nw003t.infi.net>,
ewil...@norfolk.infi.net (Ted Willies) wrote:
> In article <36DC0C73...@iosa.com>, l...@iosa.com says...
>
> Bill, it's just that this guy is willing to believe that anything even
remotely
> critical of the CIA is tantamount to revealed truth, while any defense of the
> Agency is evidence that the writer is part of some conspiracy. It is clear to
> me why McGehee got fired. He is a lousy analyst. He accepts newspaper
> articles as gospel rather than looking at the documents on which they were
> based. Why doesn't he post the originals? If his sources are as pervasive
as
> he wants us to believe, then he certainly could get them. Until he starts
> showing a little more professionalism in his reporting, no serious person will
> accept his theories.
>
> Regards, Ted Willies
>
> >
> >Okay Ralph, I told you before I'm getting real cynical in my old age. I
> >respect the free press just like I respect the right of that shit head
> >in California to put up his pictures of Uncle Ho. It's just that I feel
> >that the stuff we read and the actual facts can be somewhat different
> >and we, the populace, form our opinions from a one-sided base. That's
> >all.
> >
> >Yours truly, Bill Langston.
> >
> >P.S. It's just not my crusade, Ralph, it's yours.\
> >
> >
> >rmcg...@igc.org wrote:
> >>
> >> As stated the article was based on events drawn from declassified
> >> U.S. government documents. If you do not believe those sources, please
> >> advise what would you believe. The same information was given in the
> >> New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and many others. If none
> >> of these sources can impact on your views then?
> >>
> >> Ralph McGehee
> >> http://come.to/CIABASE
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
rmcg...@igc.org
the National Security Archives in D.C. They may be able to produce the
actual documents or should be able to advise re the details. Phone
number 202 994 7219.
Herb F.
was told by a salt and pepper team that I was known to the "enemy," and
they might contact me at some future time. I was warned to immediately
notify them at a number I was given if any attempt was made to befriend
me by a stranger. All this was done in a locked room. It was all I could
do to keep from laughing.
I thought it was total BS, and in a way it was. I am still waiting for
some "Natasha" to make a move on me, but unfortunately, Like Ed and
McGehee, I guess we are just old news now.
Ted Willies
says...
Laughing would probably have been the best response. I don't know what you (or
Ed Combs) did over there, but I strongly suspect that you were being jerked
around by the debriefers. Debriefing is a pretty boring job and the temptation
is strong to spice it up a bit. I have debriefed 3-star Generals, who had
pretty good access, and nothing of the sort was said to those guys. I only
know of one military type who had a real future exposure problem, and he was
sent back to the states for debriefing. Of course, some of the civilian types
were another matter.
Regards, Ted Willies
Edward Combs Jr.
SAC and one by LC when I left the Special Actives Group....No one debriefed
me when I retired as NCOIC of Dinning hall #3 at Lackland AFB Texas.
.....................
Ted Willies wrote in message <7bjpun$ars$1...@nw003t.infi.net>...
johne
pissed off his neighbor because his pigs ate the betel nut crop, so they
turned him in to the local village chief who told the local QC Commander who
told the regional QC Commander who told the regional CORDS guy, who put the
poor schlep on the local VC register, and one night some Phoenix guys showed
up and offed him because his pigs ate the betel nut crop? There have been
very reliable estimates that more than half of all the actions by Phoenix
were done on some poor schlep who pissed off his neighbors, not because he
was a VC. Of course you can't prove these estimates because the guys who
ran the Phoenix program classified everything to protect their butts and
their reputations, not to insure real national security issues or to protect
sources.
It's real easy to protect yourself and to hide your stupidity if you
classify everything, which is the CIA's main way to deceive the American
People. It's been my experience with spooks that they basically hate the
American People, and the Constitution of the United States. So they insure
that they can get away with their crimes by classifying everything, then
lying about it. The Phoenix program is just one example of the stupidity of
the CIA, and the lies and deceits they foisted on the American People.
--
The truth will make you free, if you survive long enough.
rmcg...@igc.org wrote in message <7b8jvv$5e6$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>My just posted article was inaccurate -- the direct - indirect
>support comment was mine.
>
>Direct support -- the Phoenix program in Vietnam was established,
>funded, and directed by the CIA. A CIA Phoneix officer credited
>this program with approximately 35,000 assassinations in
>about a seven year period.
>
>Indirect support -- the composition of Watch Lists, and passing them
>authorities supporting Death squads -- as I said a universal a
>practice of CIA.
>
>Ralph
>http://come.to/CIABASE
>
>In article <36D705B4...@iosa.com>,
> William Langston <l...@iosa.com> wrote:
>> Excuse me Ralph but this kind of shit is the stuff that conspiracy
>> theories are made of. Just EXACTLY what does direct and indirect support
>> mean? It could mean anything but from the entire posting it implies that
>> they were the ones that killed everyone and are the bad evil CIA that
>> you always claim them to be.
>>
>> Yours truly, Bill langston.
>>
>> Ralph McGehee wrote:
>> >
>> The commission found the
>> > "government of the United States, through various agencies including
>> > the CIA, provided direct and indirect support for some state
operations."
>>
>
Al Zeller
>
> How many of those 35,000 were real VC and NVA, not some poor schlep who
> pissed off his neighbor because his pigs ate the betel nut crop, so they
> turned him in to the local village chief who told the local QC Commander who
> told the regional QC Commander who told the regional CORDS guy, who put the
> poor schlep on the local VC register, and one night some Phoenix guys showed
> up and offed him because his pigs ate the betel nut crop? There have been
> very reliable estimates that more than half of all the actions by Phoenix
> were done on some poor schlep who pissed off his neighbors, not because he
> was a VC. Of course you can't prove these estimates because the guys who
> ran the Phoenix program classified everything to protect their butts and
> their reputations, not to insure real national security issues or to protect
> sources.
>
Ah, another figure you pulled out of your ass. The VC admit the Phoenix
program started to really hurt them, so one of two thing emerge from
your statment: 1) There were very few VC in the RVN or 2) Most of those
were, in fact, VC.
Care to explain?
Al Zeller
WarLib'yUK
types? I would hazard a guess you have never met neither.
Nigel Brooks
johne <la...@javanet.com> wrote in message news:7bkc47
johne
about your "daring do" as a Customs Agent (most of the ones I know sit in
little offices at border crossing stations and listen to the radio to pass
the time, or poke around in woman's underwear at airports) but I don't have
to brag about what I post. If you don't like what I post, don't read it. I
sure as hell don't read your trash.
--
The truth will make you free, if you survive long enough.
WarLib'yUK wrote in message ...
johne
of your target group. You stated a very good factual statement in a very
oblique way. There really weren't a lot of true VC in vietnam. There were
a lot of sympathizers, because of the way the civilian populous was treated
by the south Vietnamese government and by the Americans. Even the most
liberal estimates said there were never more than 250,000 true VC in the
population of vietnam during the entire war. That means that in any give
year there were only about 75,000 to 100,000 active VC. If you kill 35,000
people, and you target a specific population group, you're bound to kill
some of the people you target, by pure chance. And that's pretty much what
happened. The VC was targeted, and a bunch of them were killed. No doubt
about that. But so were a lot of innocents who just happened to piss off
the village chief or the provincial chief and who got put on the list to be
killed for revenge purposes.
Of course we'll never know what the real statistics were/are. The real
figures are all classified and, most likely, distorted to protect the asses
of the spooks who started the whole mess, in the first place. And who are
now running from their complacency.
--
The truth will make you free, if you survive long enough.
Al Zeller wrote in message <36DDC004...@nscl.msu.edu>...
Ted Gittinger
johne wrote in message <7bkvil$s4u$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>...
>. Even the most
>liberal estimates said there were never more than 250,000 true VC in the
>population of vietnam during the entire war.
Ever hear of Sam Adams, CBS, and the Westmoreland controversy? Adams, who
was a CIA analyst, thought there were over six hundred thousand VC at any
given moment from 1967 on.
ted gittinger
Gregory G. Petersen
You may be wrong about the drug dudes -- often Johne sounds like he used
too many of them to know that though.
Greg
William Langston
forgot about him, now I remember why I put him there in the first place.
Let him go live in his imaginary world.
Semper Fi, Bill Langston.
William Langston
ever say anything to anybody. Never deny or affirm anything. You can say
you were in communications, period.
Now that's extremely simple, to the point and effective.
Semper Fi, Bill Langston.
"Edward Combs Jr." wrote:
>
> Part of my debriefing said that I was to never contact any one I had known
> while working there and if I passed a former co-worker I was not to
> acknowledge them. The SIOPS information was ...not discuss for ten years for
> ten year and then in only generalities...i.e., There were a bunch of SAMs
> around the lower part of Sakhalin to protect the submarine base, but not
> types and locations(even if I could remember).
> I don't think McGehee can quote from even his own reports. Like many of us
> I'm sure McGehee has an agenda, but like I told a CIA man in the CORDs Club
> in Can Tho(I don't if his name was Mr. White or Mr. Black or Mr. Brown or
> Mr. Greens), anyway he was saying that military Intel. units collected stuff
> from "paper mills" and it took the Agency a lot time to sourt it all out. He
> felt that the military should not be in the collection of intelligence. I
> said; "Yes! But with the military all the lairs are on the other side." He
> got up and walked off. The other Agency man sitting with turned Green and
> left).
> ..................
>
> >>Ted Willies wrote in message <7bh3fv$jv$1...@nw003t.infi.net>...
Ted Willies
>ever say anything to anybody. Never deny or affirm anything. You can say
>you were in communications, period.
>
>Now that's extremely simple, to the point and effective.
>
>Semper Fi, Bill Langston.
>
>
Of course, Bill. That's not only the way it should be done, it's the most
effective way to make the point. NSA and SCA people are professionals and
conduct themselves in a professional manner. Only the people who have a need to
impress embellish what should be a straightforward activity.
The only thing that needs to be added to what you said above is to give the
subject a mechanism to report any attempt to get the person to disclose
information or to report any other security breach, intentional or not. I used
to tell people that if all else fails, notify the local FBI office. They are
in every phone book.
As an aside, one thing that has always bothered me is the habit of referring to
these things as "debriefings". A debriefing is an activity in which the
debriefer attempts to elicit information about some past activity or knowledge
of the subject. What we are talking about is the process of "reading off" a
person who has had access to sensitive information and no longer has that
access. It is an attempt to impress on the individual the need to follow
certain rules in any subsequent discussion/disclosure of the sensitive
information.
Regards, Ted Willies
rmcg...@igc.org
killed due to their physical closeness to the target, or the
target was not really a VC, and, as stated, may have been a political
or other enemy of a high official. As someone pointed out
the Phoenix Program probably ended in about 1972 whereas the figure of
those killed reflected only those casualities to the end of 1968. The
totals may have been much larger. In any event why was the CIA running an
assassination program in Vietnam? What does that say about future
situations and operations of this "intelligence" Agency
Ralph McGehee
http://come.to/CIABASE
In article <7bkc47$q1u$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>,
"johne" <la...@javanet.com> wrote:
> How many of those 35,000 were real VC and NVA, not some poor schlep who
> pissed off his neighbor because his pigs ate the betel nut crop, so they
> turned him in to the local village chief who told the local QC Commander who
> told the regional QC Commander who told the regional CORDS guy, who put the
> poor schlep on the local VC register, and one night some Phoenix guys showed
> up and offed him because his pigs ate the betel nut crop? There have been
> very reliable estimates that more than half of all the actions by Phoenix
> were done on some poor schlep who pissed off his neighbors, not because he
> was a VC. Of course you can't prove these estimates because the guys who
> ran the Phoenix program classified everything to protect their butts and
> their reputations, not to insure real national security issues or to protect
> sources.
>
> It's real easy to protect yourself and to hide your stupidity if you
> classify everything, which is the CIA's main way to deceive the American
> People. It's been my experience with spooks that they basically hate the
> American People, and the Constitution of the United States. So they insure
> that they can get away with their crimes by classifying everything, then
> lying about it. The Phoenix program is just one example of the stupidity of
> the CIA, and the lies and deceits they foisted on the American People.
>
> --
>
> The truth will make you free, if you survive long enough.
>
Edward Combs
Speaking of the FBI reminds me of the USAF OSI(Office of Special
investigations). While in Taiwan I got a 5 piece, hand carved bedroom suite
from Hong Kong for $105US.
The Taiwan police had a very strict way of handling stuff from Hong Kong.
You rented a truck and driver. Then drove to the port and at the port gate
you and the driver got out and a guard with the letter you had received from
the port authorities and went to the ship , un-crated your stuff and came
back with the furniture in the truck.
All you ever saw was the gate and your furniture.
Several weeks after I got the furniture I got a call from the OSI. The agent
said that there was a lot of smuggling stuff into Taiwan from Hong Kong. He
asked what my stuff was packed in.
I said ;"I'm sure you know the process for inporting private stuff into
Taiwan" and I went through the process from him.
Well! he said anything could have been in those crates. The things could
have been packed with $20 bills for all I know. I never saw anything except
the truck; the driver; the Gate and the furniture.
I said I don't see any prouble fro me because yoiu can check out the
procedure any time you want. He said if we need you we will call yoiu. I
said fine and left.
The Learning Channel or CNN or A&E or The History Channel has put out more
than I ever knew.
...........
Ted Willies wrote in message <7bm1dt$6sl$1...@nw003t.infi.net>...
Edward Combs
"you are going to be debriefed now and you will have to sign that you
understand the section of US Code 18 where this applies. WE used to get
security briefings from USAF Manual 105 or 125...some such thing and US
Code 18 came up many times. Maybe MISTERFIXIT can say what he got(I don't
Dave likes to get involved in these "discussions".
William Langston
just like 'window of opportunity'. I just used it in passing.
Thinking about something else, every now and then we would get bulletins
sent to us about certain books being published and not to comment on
them.
Semper Fi, Bill Langston.
ted gittinger
Edward Combs <edwc...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article the
> The Learning Channel or CNN or A&E or The History Channel has put out
more
> than I ever knew.
Heh. A couple of years ago A&E ran an hour-long "documentary" which proved
that FDR not only knew about Pearl Harbor in advance, he positively invited
the attack as well.
Which is more than I ever knew, too.
Warm regards,
ted gittinger
Ted Gittinger
rmcg...@igc.org wrote in message <7bmh0l$o77$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>I believe some of those killed by the Phoenix program were either
>killed due to their physical closeness to the target, or the
>target was not really a VC, and, as stated, may have been a political
>or other enemy of a high official.
Okay, Ed. Let's come at it from the other end. How many of the Phoenix
targets which were "neutralized" were legitmate targets?
Warm regards,
ted gittinger
Edward Combs
p...@gte.net
"ted gittinger" <te...@redbud.lbjlib.utexas.edu> wrote:
> Heh. A couple of years ago A&E ran an hour-long "documentary" which proved
> that FDR not only knew about Pearl Harbor in advance, he positively invited
> the attack as well.
>
> Which is more than I ever knew, too.
At that point your eduction took a giant leap...backwards.
World War II Resources Page: http://metalab.unc.edu/pha
Pearl Harbor Attack Hearings: http://metalab.unc.edu/pha/pha
Myths of Pearl Harbor: http://metalab.unc.edu/pha/pha
Larry J
"Dedicated to combatting 'history by sound bite'."
--
Larry W. Jewell, P...@GTE.NET; Pearl Harbor Working Group Webmaster.
WWII Primary Source Documents: http://metalab.unc.edu/pha
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden
and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting
all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41
William Langston
W.W.II. The hardest thing we ever had to do was to not tell some of the
things we knew because it would have compromised the source, knowing
that some good men would die because of it. The only thing close I could
say to you would be say, you had to put artillery onto an area knowing
that some of your own guys would get killed. War is hell, no doubt about
it. That's been said so many times that it's become trite and I wish
that were not so.
Semper Fi, Bill Langston.
ted gittinger wrote:
>
> Edward Combs <edwc...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article the
> > The Learning Channel or CNN or A&E or The History Channel has put out
> more
> > than I ever knew.
>
> Heh. A couple of years ago A&E ran an hour-long "documentary" which proved
> that FDR not only knew about Pearl Harbor in advance, he positively invited
> the attack as well.
>
> Which is more than I ever knew, too.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> ted gittinger
johne
anyone they thought could, would or might be a VC into that number. Of
course there were millions of VC sympathizer because of the rotten way the
government treated the people. Some were more vocal than others. They were
lumped into that number. They also lumped all the Saigon Cowboys and all
the draft dodgers into that number. They and they lumped all the villagers
who were in the VC controlled areas into that number, even if the villager
just happened to be a rice farmer who wanted to tend his crop and didn't
want to get involved, one way or the other. When you add all these
subgroups together, you probably get 650,000, even if the number is skewed
to support the statistical data base they wanted it to support, for their
own reasons. And what reasons were those? Think about all the spooks who
lost their jobs when the war in SE Asia was over. The more bad guys who
needed to be eliminated to save democracy, the longer the spook kept his
job.
--
The truth will make you free, if you survive long enough.
Ted Gittinger wrote in message <7bl0ss$2ts$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>...
kregg jorgenson
Don't trash Customs Officers, Inspectors or Agents until you learn
that they do a hell of a lot more than 'sit in little offices at the
border and listen to the radio to pass the time' or 'poke around in
women's underwear at the airports'. They're the frontline law
enforcement agency who arrest murderers, rapists, terrorists, child
molestors, and various scum trying to make it through those borders.
Customs revenues are also responsible for paying for the Florida
Purchase, The Louisiana Purchase, Alaska, the Military Academies, and
adding billions of foreign dollars to the Treasury, which helps keep
down your taxes.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing so don't blow away any
argument you have with stupidty.
Keep up the good work, Nigel!
Ted Gittinger
johne wrote in message <7bpnsj$jrl$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>...
>That's a very dubious figure, by all estimates. They
Who is "they?" MACV order of battle folks, or CIA? They disagreed rather
violently about how many VC to count. You knew that, however, being privy
to all that classified stuff you used to read whilst manning your bulldozer,
right?
>conveniently lumped
>anyone they thought could, would or might be a VC into that number. Of
>course there were millions of VC sympathizer because of the rotten way the
>government treated the people. Some were more vocal than others. They
were
>lumped into that number. They also lumped all the Saigon Cowboys and all
>the draft dodgers into that number. They and they lumped all the villagers
>who were in the VC controlled areas into that number, even if the villager
>just happened to be a rice farmer who wanted to tend his crop and didn't
>want to get involved, one way or the other.
Sam Adams of the CIA claimed his estimates of VC streingth, which differed
byseveral orders of magnitude from those of MACV, were based on VC
membership lists.
>When you add all these
>subgroups together, you probably get 650,000, even if the number is skewed
>to support the statistical data base they wanted it to support, for their
>own reasons. And what reasons were those? Think about all the spooks who
>lost their jobs when the war in SE Asia was over. The more bad guys who
>needed to be eliminated to save democracy, the longer the spook kept his
>job.
Ah. You are saying there was a direct correlation between the reputed
strength of the VC and the actual strength of the "spooks." The more VC,
the more spooks. No doubt you have something to back up this thesis. And
since all authorities agree that VC strength declined rather precipitately
after Tet, spook strength would have gone down as well. Correct?
A fine analysis. I defy anyone to find a flaw in it. (No, Grandson, you
are not eligible to try. You are above nine years of age. Wouldn't be
fair.)
Warm regards,
ted gittinger
Bill Clarke
Ted Gittinger wrote in message <7bq839$5e3$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>...
>
>Who is "they?" MACV order of battle folks, or CIA? They disagreed rather
>violently about how many VC to count. You knew that, however, being privy
>to all that classified stuff you used to read whilst manning your
bulldozer,
>right?
>
There you go with that “bulldozer” bullshit again ted. <Big Grin>
Actually, my assignment as an armored cav trooper was just a cover for my
real assignment in Vietnam. I really ran a unit of CIA sponsored bulldozers
in Vietnam. They were all painted black and we were air lifted into North
Vietnam and other surrounding countries to bring pee to the yellow communist
dogs. No, you can’t look this up, it is still “classified”, but you might
find smug references to “Operation Black Track”.
Bill Clarke
F Troop, 17th Cav
Ken Burington
I assume this operation was performed in conjunction with our sincere if
eventually futile effort to put the entire country in sandbags.
Ken Burington
Assistant Librarian for Maryland
War Library Canada
CWL #79
Bill Clarke wrote in message ...
Ted Gittinger
Ken Burington wrote in message <7brlr2$jpc$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>...
>Bill,
>
>I assume this operation was performed in conjunction with our sincere if
>eventually futile effort to put the entire country in sandbags.
AND onvert the entire populace to Catholicism,. That's why the biggest of
those 'dozers were known as Rome plows.
Really. You can look 'em up.
Warm regards,
ted
Misterfixit
It was right there in front of us all this time! "ROME" Plows .....
Plowing, of course is used in the bible with reference to sowing the seeds
of religious fervor (unlike Onan who Plowed his Seeds in another direction).
And of course the Catholics got aholt of it all and started in. Jeeze
Louise! First JFK and the other Kennedy clan in league with the Vatican,
and then the Rome Plows!
Naturally, we all know that the acronym "CIA" means "Catholics In America"
and is only a front organization for the Black Pope, the Head Jesuit over at
Georgetown University (just a hop, skip, and two genuflects down the road
from Langley and "CIA" headquarters).
But I digress.
In Patrius Verdis et Fecundu Trellis!!
Mann
Southern Baptist
Ted Gittinger wrote in message <7bs14b$k50$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>...
Bill Clarke
Ken Burington wrote in message <7brlr2$jpc$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>...
>Bill,
>
>I assume this operation was performed in conjunction with our sincere if
>eventually futile effort to put the entire country in sandbags.
>
>Assistant Librarian for Maryland
>War Library Canada
>CWL #79
>
You are half right there Ken, ted nailed the other half. After the McNamara
Line or Trace failed to achieve the desired results, Robert Strange decided
that he would put the whole damn country in sand bags. He was quoted as
saying “see if you can infiltrate this, you yellow running communist dog”.
For some reason he didn’t mention Operation Black Track in his book, still
classified I think.
Bill Clarke
>>Bill,
>>
>>I assume this operation was performed in conjunction with our sincere if
>>eventually futile effort to put the entire country in sandbags.
>
>those 'dozers were known as Rome plows.
>
>Really. You can look 'em up.
>
>Warm regards,
>
>ted
>
>
converting the natives to Catholicism. The white man’s burden you know. As
a failed (my poor mother tried) Southern Baptist my cover was perfect for
this assignment.
The ROME Plows were shipped from Italy under cover of darkness to Cedartown,
Ga., and from there to Vietnam. Until ted spilled the beans, no one ever
suspected the Pope was involved. Not with the plows anyway. The Pope
maintained his interest in ROME plows and you can buy one today in
Cedartown.
Ted Gittinger
Misterfixit wrote in message <7bs7ms$k...@chronicle.concentric.net>...
>
>But I digress.
No sweat. Ego te absolvo, in nomine patris, et fillii, et espirtu sancti,
amen.
>
>In Patrius Verdis et Fecundu Trellis!!
Et cum spiritu tuo.
>
>Mann
>Southern Baptist
>
Warm regards,
ted gittinger
practicing Roman C.
with six children to prove it
Mokieman
I know you want to play with that word mastered, "Don't go for that gun
Charlie"
Charles Gillen <gil...@his.com> wrote in message
news:36e1f...@news4.his.com...
>"Ted Gittinger" <te...@redbud.lbjlib.utexas.edu> wrote:
>
>>Warm regards,
>>ted gittinger
>>practicing Roman C.
>>with six children to prove it
>
>OK, you proved you learned how to do it right, and can stop practicing.
>
>----
>Gil...@His.Com -- Reston, VA USA
>Home Page: http://www.his.com/gillen
>MX-700 pix: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=12769&a=34246
Ted Gittinger
Mokieman wrote in message <7bt0b4$qco$1...@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>LOL you call six children pracitcing, think he has it mastered. Don't do
it,
>I know you want to play with that word mastered, "Don't go for that gun
>Charlie"
>
that isn't literally true.
Why do we have six?
Didn't want seven.
Warm regards,
ted
Mokieman
wonder if.......naw that's how that Chenoweth thing got started,
Shhhhhhhhhhhhh there are Mormons everywhere, if you start seeing men in
black suits, with sunglasses, driving yellow Camarro Convertibles, leave the
country, or see if you can find booking on the Space Shuttle.<G>
Charles Gillen <gil...@his.com> wrote in message
news:36e1f...@news4.his.com...
>"Misterfixit" <miste...@loveable.com> wrote:
>
>>Naturally, we all know that the acronym "CIA" means "Catholics In America"
>
>Actually, it means "Catholic Intelligence Agency." Not to be confused
>with the Mormon-infested FBI. Hey, at least Catholics have celestial
>dispensation to drink wine :^)
Charles Gillen
Charles Gillen
>Warm regards,
>ted gittinger
>practicing Roman C.
>with six children to prove it
OK, you proved you learned how to do it right, and can stop practicing.
----
johne
they, MACV the State Department, USARV, etc could have told me there were
800,000,000,000 VC, and I would have believed them, just like everyone else.
Its taken 25 years for the lies and the deceptions of the come out, lies and
deceptions that were promoted by a bunch of spooks and fellow travelers who
were/more interested in keeping their jobs and their daring do way of life,
damn the truth, and damn the Constitution of the United States.
--
The truth will make you free, if you survive long enough.
Ted Gittinger wrote in message <7bq839$5e3$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>...
>
>johne wrote in message <7bpnsj$jrl$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>...
>>That's a very dubious figure, by all estimates. They
>
>Who is "they?" MACV order of battle folks, or CIA? They disagreed rather
>violently about how many VC to count. You knew that, however, being privy
>to all that classified stuff you used to read whilst manning your
bulldozer,
>right?
>
johne
the war and the cost of actually leveling the entire country, filling
everything in and making the place into the parking lot for all of SE Asia.
It would have been cheaper to just level it and pave it than it was to fight
the war.
--
The truth will make you free, if you survive long enough.
Ken Burington wrote in message <7brlr2$jpc$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>...
>Bill,
>
>I assume this operation was performed in conjunction with our sincere if
>eventually futile effort to put the entire country in sandbags.
>
>Ken Burington
>Assistant Librarian for Maryland
>War Library Canada
>CWL #79
>
>Bill Clarke wrote in message ...
>>
>>Ted Gittinger wrote in message <7bq839$5e3$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>...
>>>
>>>Who is "they?" MACV order of battle folks, or CIA? They disagreed
rather
>>>violently about how many VC to count. You knew that, however, being
privy
>>>to all that classified stuff you used to read whilst manning your
>>bulldozer,
>>>right?
>>>
>>
>>
>>There you go with that “bulldozer” bullshit again ted. <Big Grin>
>>Actually, my assignment as an armored cav trooper was just a cover for my
>>real assignment in Vietnam. I really ran a unit of CIA sponsored
>bulldozers
>>in Vietnam. They were all painted black and we were air lifted into North
>>Vietnam and other surrounding countries to bring pee to the yellow
>communist
>>dogs. No, you can’t look this up, it is still “classified”, but you might
>>find smug references to “Operation Black Track”.
>>
johne
and Nationalization Service, organizations that I do have much, much first
hand knowlege about. Customs is responsible for enforcing the Customs Laws,
ie collecting dutys and stopping smuggling. The Border Patrol and the
Immigration and Nationalization Service actually patrol the borders,
stopping the illegal's and the bad guys.
--
The truth will make you free, if you survive long enough.
kregg jorgenson wrote in message
<15016-36...@newsd-104.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
johne
one know what they're doing, or who they're responsible to. They then keep
the records classified forever, not to protect vital national security
secrets and sources, but to protect their butts from the regulatory
agencies, Congress and the American People. Then they do the same thing
over and over and over. Classifying everything gives them real job
security, and a wonderful retirement, all at the expense of the American
People and the Constitution, two institutions that spooks despise and
disdain.
--
The truth will make you free, if you survive long enough.
rmcg...@igc.org wrote in message <7bmh0l$o77$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>I believe some of those killed by the Phoenix program were either
>killed due to their physical closeness to the target, or the
>target was not really a VC, and, as stated, may have been a political
>or other enemy of a high official. As someone pointed out
>the Phoenix Program probably ended in about 1972 whereas the figure of
>those killed reflected only those casualities to the end of 1968. The
>totals may have been much larger. In any event why was the CIA running an
>assassination program in Vietnam? What does that say about future
>situations and operations of this "intelligence" Agency
>
>Ralph McGehee
>http://come.to/CIABASE
>
>
>
>
>
>In article <7bkc47$q1u$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>,
> "johne" <la...@javanet.com> wrote:
>> How many of those 35,000 were real VC and NVA, not some poor schlep who
>> pissed off his neighbor because his pigs ate the betel nut crop, so they
>> turned him in to the local village chief who told the local QC Commander
who
>> told the regional QC Commander who told the regional CORDS guy, who put
the
>> poor schlep on the local VC register, and one night some Phoenix guys
showed
>> up and offed him because his pigs ate the betel nut crop? There have
been
>> very reliable estimates that more than half of all the actions by Phoenix
>> were done on some poor schlep who pissed off his neighbors, not because
he
>> was a VC. Of course you can't prove these estimates because the guys who
>> ran the Phoenix program classified everything to protect their butts and
>> their reputations, not to insure real national security issues or to
protect
>> sources.
>>
>> It's real easy to protect yourself and to hide your stupidity if you
>> classify everything, which is the CIA's main way to deceive the American
>> People. It's been my experience with spooks that they basically hate the
>> American People, and the Constitution of the United States. So they
insure
>> that they can get away with their crimes by classifying everything, then
>> lying about it. The Phoenix program is just one example of the stupidity
of
>> the CIA, and the lies and deceits they foisted on the American People.
>>
>> --
>>
>> The truth will make you free, if you survive long enough.
>>
>> rmcg...@igc.org wrote in message <7b8jvv$5e6$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>> >My just posted article was inaccurate -- the direct - indirect
>> >support comment was mine.
>> >
>> >Direct support -- the Phoenix program in Vietnam was established,
>> >funded, and directed by the CIA. A CIA Phoneix officer credited
>> >this program with approximately 35,000 assassinations in
>> >about a seven year period.
>> >
>> >Indirect support -- the composition of Watch Lists, and passing them
>> >authorities supporting Death squads -- as I said a universal a
>> >practice of CIA.
>> >
>> >Ralph
>> >http://come.to/CIABASE
>> >
>> >In article <36D705B4...@iosa.com>,
>> > William Langston <l...@iosa.com> wrote:
>> >> Excuse me Ralph but this kind of shit is the stuff that conspiracy
>> >> theories are made of. Just EXACTLY what does direct and indirect
support
>> >> mean? It could mean anything but from the entire posting it implies
that
>> >> they were the ones that killed everyone and are the bad evil CIA that
>> >> you always claim them to be.
>> >>
>> >> Yours truly, Bill langston.
>> >>
>> >> Ralph McGehee wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> The commission found the
>> >> > "government of the United States, through various agencies including
>> >> > the CIA, provided direct and indirect support for some state
>> operations."
johne
were legitimate, the rest were not.
--
The truth will make you free, if you survive long enough.
Ted Gittinger wrote in message <7bn5f5$lju$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>...
>
>rmcg...@igc.org wrote in message <7bmh0l$o77$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>>I believe some of those killed by the Phoenix program were either
>>killed due to their physical closeness to the target, or the
>>target was not really a VC, and, as stated, may have been a political
>>or other enemy of a high official.
>
Bill Clarke
johne wrote in message <7btp2p$64f$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>...
>There was a real study done one time. They compared the cost of conducting
>the war and the cost of actually leveling the entire country, filling
>everything in and making the place into the parking lot for all of SE Asia.
>It would have been cheaper to just level it and pave it than it was to
fight
>the war.
>
>--
& Root he would damn sure do it. However the Pope, who we all know was
REALLY running the war, wanted his outfit the ROME Plow Co. to have a much
larger piece of the contract. Seems the Pope and LBJ couldn’t work it out
so parking for a Honda 70 is still at a premium in Vietnam today.
Bill Clarke
F Troop, 17th Cav
>
>The truth will make you free, if you survive long enough.
>
Bill Clarke
Ted Gittinger wrote in message <7bt2vb$f8k$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>...
>
>It's like doctors. They say they are "in practice," but you hope to hell
>that isn't literally true.
>
>Why do we have six?
>
>Didn't want seven.
>
>Warm regards,
>
>ted
My mother and daddy raised six kids. My mother’s mother and daddy raised
six kids. I think it takes a brave person to take on the awesome
responsibility of raising a young’un, especially multiplied by six. I
salute you and Mrs G..
A less humorous note on the ROME plow. The timber companies, who own most
of East Texas, are clearing the hardwood river and creek bottoms to replant
in pines. The cat squirrel (not to be confused with the fox squirrel) is
feeling the loss of habitat and their days are probably numbered. I hope
you got to hunt the cat while in East Texas.
Ted Gittinger
johne wrote in message <7btouf$5gu$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>...
>I sure as hell didn't know it at the time, but I know it now. At the time
>they, MACV the State Department, USARV, etc could have told me there were
>800,000,000,000 VC, and I would have believed them, just like everyone
else.
>Its taken 25 years for the lies and the deceptions of the come out, lies
and
>deceptions that were promoted by a bunch of spooks and fellow travelers who
>were/more interested in keeping their jobs and their daring do way of life,
Er, p'arm me, but you have not answered a single inquiry I have made. If
this is because you do not consider my queries worthy of comment, kindly say
so, and I will not trouble you again.
Who lied?
Who constructed deceptions?
What precisely were the lies and deceptions? This is especially important.
It has entered into the popular culture that the government lied, lied,
*lied* us into, during, and getting out of Vietnam. Now either put up or
shut up. What were the lies? If you can't be specific, don't bother
replying. Don't recite tired cliches. I only skin freshly killed animals.
Warm regards,
ted gittinger
Ted Gittinger
johne wrote in message <7btpqg$9rq$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>...
>Not nearly as many as the spooks say were legitimate. Probably about half
>were legitimate,
the rest were not.
[those killed under the Phoenix Program]
Upon what do you base that judgment? The number of cleats on your D-7?
Warm regards,
ted
Al Zeller
>
> Not nearly as many as the spooks say were legitimate. Probably about half
> were legitimate, the rest were not.
>
>
>
And the proof of this statement is?
Or is this another of those "trust me" statements?
Al Zeller
kregg jorgenson
correct because I also work for them. I spent a number of years as an
Inspector, served on the Contraband Enforcement Team and later as a K-9
officer where I arrested or assisted in arresting numerous bad guys.
Customs enforces 400 laws for 40 different agencies and we do the best
we can with the manpower and resources available. Like any profession we
have our good folks and bad and the bad we try to weed out. Most of us
are professional so when you trash us with a broad brush the swipes you
take cover a lot of us and maybe paint the wrong picture as well.
BTW, on my off duty hours I help teach long range patrolling to SWAT
teams with rural areas, defensive tactics (Arnis or Filipino stick and
knife fighting as well as real world Jujitsu to other officers), and
occasionally help out at a local police academy. Recently to keep from
becoming stale I've taken up tracking studying with some of the best in
the business. BTW, many of them are former Marines, Army Rangers, SF,
Air Force pukes, Navy or Coast Guardsmen who, like myself, believe
there's always room for improvement and always a need to better
ourselves.
It's my belief too that the truth will only set you free if you' learn
from your ignorance. Then you also have to be man enough to get back up
after you been knocked down, dust yourself off and give it another try.
Kregg Jorgenson,
1st CAV 69/70
Recon and Long Range Recon
Ted Gittinger
Bill Clarke wrote in message ...
>
>A less humorous note on the ROME plow. The timber companies, who own most
>of East Texas, are clearing the hardwood river and creek bottoms to replant
>in pines. The cat squirrel (not to be confused with the fox squirrel) is
>feeling the loss of habitat and their days are probably numbered. I hope
>you got to hunt the cat while in East Texas.
>
>Bill Clarke
>F Troop, 17th Cav
>
I did indeed. We called 'em cane squirrels, and they were tough shooting and
damn fine eating.
>
>
Bill,let's you and I go down into South Texas, along the Nueces, where you
never see another human bean for weeks on end. We will eat catfish in
butter everyday. You, of course, will bring the beer.
Warm regards
ted
>
WarLib'yUK
But it will be lost on the likes of him.
Nigel Brooks
kregg jorgenson <kre...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:19775-36...@newsd-104.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Bill Clarke
Ted Gittinger wrote in message <7bv5pq$1pi$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>...
>
>
>I did indeed. We called 'em cane squirrels, and they were tough shooting
and
>damn fine eating.
>Bill,let's you and I go down into South Texas, along the Nueces, where you
>never see another human bean for weeks on end. We will eat catfish in
>butter everyday. You, of course, will bring the beer.
>
>Warm regards
>
>ted
>>
>
increase it for said trip. Before the lake came in, I could take my Beagle
Hounds up Rocky Creek and never see a soul. Now houses are side by side
like Houston. We had to stop running hounds 15 years ago, another East
Texas tradition gone to hell.
Bill Clarke,
PS, what if we don’t catch no fish on our trip??
Bruce in Maine
Ted Gittinger wrote:
>
> johne wrote in message <7btpqg$9rq$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>...
> >Not nearly as many as the spooks say were legitimate. Probably about half
> >were legitimate,
>
> the rest were not.
> [those killed under the Phoenix Program]
>
> Upon what do you base that judgment? The number of cleats on your D-7?
>
I think he got it from the local lobstermen, Ted. The same ones who
gave him his education on the physics of "sonic booms". I mean, we have
some absolute *geniuses* among the members of our lobster fishing fleet.
Ted Gittinger
Bill Clarke wrote in message ...
>Before the lake came in, I could take my Beagle
>Hounds up Rocky Creek and never see a soul. Now houses are side by side
>like Houston. We had to stop running hounds 15 years ago, another East
>Texas tradition gone to hell.
>
>Bill Clarke,
>
>PS, what if we don’t catch no fish on our trip??
I just finished a series of oral history interviews with a local who works
at a living history exhibit, a pioneer farm. He was and is a sharecropper,
and he and his twin brother used to cast hounds.
(Don't worry, everybody, Bill will understand that last reference.)
When a dog caught a scent and raised his/her voice, the boys around the fire
would exclaim,
"He put his foot thar!" meaning the varmint which the hound had scented.
And then the race was on.
Damn, Bill. Puts me in mind.
Warm regards,
ted
PS: I ain't never been on no fishing trip that didn't produce. Not to
worry. The real question is, what do we keep 'em in?
Bill Clarke
Ted Gittinger wrote in message <7c1log$rti$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>...
>I just finished a series of oral history interviews with a local who works
>at a living history exhibit, a pioneer farm. He was and is a sharecropper,
>and he and his twin brother used to cast hounds.
>
>(Don't worry, everybody, Bill will understand that last reference.)
>
>When a dog caught a scent and raised his/her voice, the boys around the
fire
>would exclaim,
>
>"He put his foot thar!" meaning the varmint which the hound had scented.
>And then the race was on.
>
>Damn, Bill. Puts me in mind.
>
>Warm regards,
>
>ted
>
>PS: I ain't never been on no fishing trip that didn't produce. Not to
>worry. The real question is, what do we keep 'em in?
>
>
And when the hounds had jumped (that means they had geared up from
cold-trailing to hot pursuit) a kid (me) would hear things like, “Damn, old
Rangers’ slinging slobber up that coon’s ass” and then the men might holler
a bit, depending on how much whiskey had been passed around the fire.
I think things like that helped to keep me from straying too far from trying
to be a decent person. Those old men wouldn’t have let me hunt with them
had I been a stealing dope head or draft dodger and I still value their
respect.
I had a long eared Black & Tan that not only was a thing of beauty but when
she cold-trailed it was the prettiest music I have ever heard, and I’ve
heard most of the female folk singers.
Misterfixit
some fool from the revenue sniffin' fer that shine ... Ma! Gimme thet old
faithful (a Model 97 pump 12-gauge with bayonet lug brought back from the
Meuse-Argonne in 1918) ... we gonna put a SHINE on His Ass for shure!"
But then, we did come from a different part of Tennessee .....
Axiomatically,
Mann
Bill Clarke wrote in message ...
>
Mokieman
Bill Clarke <cla...@livingston.net> wrote in message
news:61kF2.2362$Py.246...@dca1-nnrp1.news.digex.net...
>
>johne wrote in message <7btp2p$64f$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>...
>>There was a real study done one time. They compared the cost of
conducting
>>the war and the cost of actually leveling the entire country, filling
>>everything in and making the place into the parking lot for all of SE
Asia.
>>It would have been cheaper to just level it and pave it than it was to
>fight
>>the war.
>>
>>--
>For decades now I have heard this "it would have been cheaper to pave the
>damn country. I have put together some conservative estimates of what it
>would cost to pave one square mile back in 1970.
>
>1. Clearing and grubbing; with the ROME plow, of course.
> 640 acres @ $500.00 per acre $ 320,000
>
>2. Cut & Fill, grading and compaction; I used an average cut of 15 feet.
>Not near enough for the Central Highlands.
>15,488,000 cubic yard @ 1.50 per cubic yard $23,232,000
>
>3. Limestone base material, 6 inches thick.
>929,280 tons @ $13.50 per ton $ 12,545,280
>
>4. Asphalt Paving. 2 inch thickness.
>340,736 tons @ $20.00 $ 6,814,720
>
>For a ball park wild ass guess of $42,912,000 per square mile. If some
>kind soul will supply the number of square miles in Vietnam and the dollar
>amount that the war cost I would be most appreciative.
Bill Clarke
Ken Burington
My 1994 World Factbook shows the land area of Vietnam to be 325,360 square
kilometers, or 125,620 square miles. Using your conservative figures this
would run to $5,390,636,337,000.00. That's 5.39 trillion. Not sure what
the war cost, and there's no real way to account for it, but perhaps someone
(ted?) might have a ballpark figure for appropriations made to cover the
war.
Whenever you see "they" used as an authority or reference, it's fair to be
suspicious. Real "they's" have names.
Ken Burington
C Co., 2/5 Cav
1st Cav Div 67-68
CWL #79
Bill Clarke wrote in message
<61kF2.2362$Py.246...@dca1-nnrp1.news.digex.net>...
Benfica Bob
Boy your ....No. 10 Cheap G.I ! ...lol... we have to lay down 4inches maybe
3 if we can, here in Montreal....City laws require!
Herb F.
with the problems of hauling garbage, dumps filling up etc., the answer
was to take all the garbage and drop it over Hanoi. I would think that
within a year or two they would have been about three feet deep in
refuse, which should have brought their military and commercial movement
to a dead halt.
WarLib'yUK
Ken Burington <kburi...@erols.com> wrote in message
>Whenever you see "they" used as an authority or reference, it's fair >to
be suspicious. Real "they's" have names.
Ken,
Are you sure about that? I've been hearing that "they" have decreed, or
"they" said this and that for the past 27 years (usually in connection with
a particularily unpleasant task that need to be performed). I just thought
that "they" were a bunch of aged dinosaurs that had long passed retirement,
but stuck around just to screw with everyone.
Nigel Brooks
Ted Gittinger
Herb F. wrote in message <28920-36...@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net>...
Well, it worked in Saigon.
Warm regards,
ted gittinger
Bill Clarke
Ken Burington wrote in message <7c786g$2s9$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>...
>Bill,
>
>My 1994 World Factbook shows the land area of Vietnam to be 325,360 square
>kilometers, or 125,620 square miles. Using your conservative figures this
>would run to $5,390,636,337,000.00. That's 5.39 trillion. Not sure what
>the war cost, and there's no real way to account for it, but perhaps
someone
>(ted?) might have a ballpark figure for appropriations made to cover the
>war.
>
>suspicious. Real "they's" have names.
>
>C Co., 2/5 Cav
>1st Cav Div 67-68
>CWL #79
>
Ken,
Thanks so much for the information and math work. Aggies can’t count that
high.
I am very familiar with “they” and this was the reason I posted this thread.
I had hoped that Johnee or the “they” in Johnee’s post would show us their
report on the cost of paving vs the war. As usual, “They” remain unseen. I
think we have also shown “They” to be wrong as hell again.
Thanks,
Bill Clarke
Bill Clarke
Benfica Bob wrote in message ...
>4. Asphalt Paving. 2 inch thickness?
>
>Boy your ....No. 10 Cheap G.I ! ...lol... we have to lay down 4inches maybe
>3 if we can, here in Montreal....City laws require!
>
>
Not so cheap, just poor southern boys without funds. The freezing weather
up north requires a thicker layer of hot-mix.
Gregory G. Petersen
DT1942
>The freezing weather
>up north requires a thicker layer of hot-mix.
>
I'm always amazed that the streets in my home town in Indiana where the winters
are freeze-thaw-freeze-thaw are in better shape than those in the much bigger,
much richer city of Austin, Texas where 40 degrees is a cold snap.
Regards,
David Travis
Red Fox
concentrate salt water. Even cheaper!
Gregory G. Petersen wrote in message <36EA0F04...@LawNet.Com>...
>Hell -- use gravel only!
>
>
>
>Bill Clarke wrote:
>
>> Benfica Bob wrote in message ...
>> >4. Asphalt Paving. 2 inch thickness?
>> >
>> >Boy your ....No. 10 Cheap G.I ! ...lol... we have to lay down 4inches
maybe
>> >3 if we can, here in Montreal....City laws require!
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Not so cheap, just poor southern boys without funds. The freezing
weather
>> up north requires a thicker layer of hot-mix.
>>
Bill Clarke
DT1942 wrote in message <19990313034254...@ng118.aol.com>...
>
>I'm always amazed that the streets in my home town in Indiana where the
winters
>are freeze-thaw-freeze-thaw are in better shape than those in the much
bigger,
>much richer city of Austin, Texas where 40 degrees is a cold snap.
>Regards,
>David Travis
A simple explanation David. Austin suffers from a much higher traffic count
of heavier vehicles than does your hometown. This is due to the steady flow
of 18 wheeler beer trucks coming into Austin to keep ted G. in his basic
load of beer.
City streets aside, Texas is known to take what money is available and
building the most miles of road instead of the best road. It is easier to
get maintaince and reconstruction money than it is to get money for new
construction. It is the way of the bureaucracy. In the 1950s it did get
the farmer out of the mud so he could get his produce to market, and where
my daddy had to put 2 teams of mules together to get to town we now drive on
a paved Farm to Market road. If it is a little bumpy, at least we aren’t
getting stuck.
Have you ever seen the roads in Louisiana? Ha
johne
I don't give a damn what you do for a living or anything else you do or
don't do. So what?
--
The truth will make you free, if you survive long enough.
kregg jorgenson wrote in message
<19775-36...@newsd-104.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
johne
answering. If I did, I'd answer them.
--
The truth will make you free, if you survive long enough.
Ted Gittinger wrote in message <7bugqo$erm$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>...
Bruce in Maine
johne wrote:
>
> I don't consider any of your questions, inquiries or comments worth
> answering. If I did, I'd answer them.
>
Ah! A scholar of the "Phill Coleman School of Obfuscation and
Dissimulation"!
Ted Gittinger
johne wrote in message <7cefen$rup$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>...
>I don't consider any of your questions, inquiries or comments worth
>answering. If I did, I'd answer them.
Heh. Must have hit a nerve.
Or is that "pain receptor," in modern medical parlance? Never mind
answering that one, either; it's purely rhetorical.
ted gittinger
Ken Burington
Do you stand in front of a mirror and practice being nasty or were you just
born reptilian?
Looks like the letters may have saved some lives. Haven't killed anybody in
the last week or so? Is that why you're in such a foul mood?
Ken Burington
CWL #79
johne wrote in message <7cefjt$t3b$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>...
>And in your spare time you walk on water and change water into wine, right?
>
>I don't give a damn what you do for a living or anything else you do or
>don't do. So what?
>
>--
>
>The truth will make you free, if you survive long enough.
>