Wimp2 website now online
ne...@my-dejanews.com
an online presence which shall remain its web-based home.
The address is http://www.nedprod.com/programs/RISC-OS/Wimp2. Many Acorn
browsers will not be able to render this page properly - ArcWeb is known to
produce something readable anyway, and I have heard Acorn Browse doesn't do
too bad a job either. Try different browsers and see.
The expected release date for Wimp2 is the 20th January 1999. Until then, the
web site above contains API and other documentation for your interest.
Yours,
Niall Douglas.
10th January 1999.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Paul L. Allen
ne...@my-dejanews.com writes:
> The address is http://www.nedprod.com/programs/RISC-OS/Wimp2. Many Acorn
> browsers will not be able to render this page properly - ArcWeb is known to
> produce something readable anyway, and I have heard Acorn Browse doesn't do
> too bad a job either. Try different browsers and see.
That makes me very confident. Oh yes indeed. It is easy to create pages
that work in all browsers - as long as you avoid pointless gimmicks. But
these pages are so full of pointless gimmicks that they won't work in
some browsers - the very browsers most likely to be used by the target
audience. But he wants us to believe that the actual product will be
largely compatible with most apps. If he had a clue about making stuff
compatible, his web pages would work with all Acorn browsers and Lynx
too.
Oh look, he's using a dejanews address - not a good sign. And posting
using IE 4.01 running on Win95. Yep, I'm *really* convinced now...
--Paul
David Courtney
So if ArcWeb and Browse are okay what's the problem.
Just looking forward to your release of Wimp2.
--
_______________________
http://www.jinksies.com I demand the right to know what is on my web site
Justin Fletcher
p...@sktb.demon.co.uk (Paul L. Allen) wrote:
> In article <77922h$d46$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
> ne...@my-dejanews.com writes:
>
> > The address is http://www.nedprod.com/programs/RISC-OS/Wimp2. Many Acorn
> > browsers will not be able to render this page properly - ArcWeb is known
> > to produce something readable anyway, and I have heard Acorn Browse
> > doesn't do too bad a job either. Try different browsers and see.
>
> That makes me very confident. Oh yes indeed. It is easy to create pages
> that work in all browsers - as long as you avoid pointless gimmicks. But
> these pages are so full of pointless gimmicks that they won't work in
> some browsers - the very browsers most likely to be used by the target
> audience. But he wants us to believe that the actual product will be
> largely compatible with most apps. If he had a clue about making stuff
> compatible, his web pages would work with all Acorn browsers and Lynx
> too.
You've got to admit that however his pages are much better than just saying
'Bog off', haven't you ?
Aside from the minor detail of the tables not rendering in quite the same
way in a browser with them disabled. I wouldn't say that the pages were in
any particular way unreadable.
> Oh look, he's using a dejanews address - not a good sign. And posting
Agreed. But we all know Niall anyhow.
> using IE 4.01 running on Win95. Yep, I'm *really* convinced now...
What's wrong with that ? Or are you commenting on something without checking
about the other stuff he's working on ? Look at the Tornado work he's doing
and you'll see that he is taking his original RISC OS work over to Windows.
And in anycase there is nothing inherently wrong with using Win '95.
--
Gerph {djf0-.3w6e2w2.226,6q6w2q2,2.3,2m4}
URL: http://www.thevillage.ndirect.co.uk/justin/
... What's the difference between a worm hole and a black hole ?
One's a giant imploded star and the other is a air hole in grass.
Paul L. Allen
Justin Fletcher <ge...@innocent.com> writes:
> In message <f0CSv...@sktb.demon.co.uk>
> p...@sktb.demon.co.uk (Paul L. Allen) wrote:
>
> > In article <77922h$d46$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
> > ne...@my-dejanews.com writes:
> >
> > > The address is http://www.nedprod.com/programs/RISC-OS/Wimp2. Many Acorn
> > > browsers will not be able to render this page properly - ArcWeb is known
> > > to produce something readable anyway, and I have heard Acorn Browse
> > > doesn't do too bad a job either. Try different browsers and see.
> >
> > That makes me very confident. Oh yes indeed. It is easy to create pages
> > that work in all browsers - as long as you avoid pointless gimmicks. But
> > these pages are so full of pointless gimmicks that they won't work in
> > some browsers - the very browsers most likely to be used by the target
> > audience. But he wants us to believe that the actual product will be
> > largely compatible with most apps. If he had a clue about making stuff
> > compatible, his web pages would work with all Acorn browsers and Lynx
> > too.
>
> You've got to admit that however his pages are much better than just saying
> 'Bog off', haven't you ?
Much better in what respect? In using valid HTML? In working with all
browsers including Lynx? In whether or not the author has to warn people
that the pages won't be able to render the page properly? In communicating
something (for instance, Paul Allen's attitude to those who think he has a
duty to put up web pages to entertain them) effectively and concisely?
> Aside from the minor detail of the tables not rendering in quite the same
> way in a browser with them disabled. I wouldn't say that the pages were in
> any particular way unreadable.
You might not. *He* did. It's not hard to produce pages that work in all
browsers. Most HTML constructs from w3c can be used in a way which degrades
well on browsers that don't support them. It's not hard to check that pages
are going to work on all browsers - there are plenty of good validators and
compatibility testers around, like <URL:http://valsvc.webtechs.com> and
<URL:http://www.cast.org/bobb/> as well as telnettable Lynx clients like
<URL:telnet://lynx.bob.bofh.org>.
He's producing something which is going to have major compatibility problems
unless he does it right. That means he needs the right attitude and
methodoloy in the first place. His pages, which either don't work on
Acorn browsers or he thinks won't work BECAUSE HE COULDN'T BE ARSED TO
CHECK do not fill me with confidence that he has the right attitude. Do
you understand what I'm getting at?
> > Oh look, he's using a dejanews address - not a good sign. And posting
>
> Agreed. But we all know Niall anyhow.
We *all* know him, do we? Until you mentioned Tornado, I didn't have a clue
who it was.
> > using IE 4.01 running on Win95. Yep, I'm *really* convinced now...
>
> What's wrong with that ?
It's not an Acorn machine. Which means he's not using an Acorn machine
for Internet access. Try to figure out the implications of that for
yourself - like how strongly he feels a need to improve Acorn machines
when he's using a different box anyway.
> Or are you commenting on something without checking about the other stuff
> he's working on ?
I might consider stuff he has successfully *completed* in the past as a
guide to future performance. If all he has is stuff he's working on,
without ever completing it, I don't consider that a useful indicator (except
that he has a lot of *unfinished* stuff, so maybe he won't finish this
either).
> Look at the Tornado work he's doing
Still? I heard about that years ago. Big fanfare. To be finished soon.
Even more unfinished than most Doggysoft products. At least they issued a
working (sort of) version of most of their stuff and it was the subsequent
releases that never happened.
> and you'll see that he is taking his original RISC OS work over to Windows.
Yep, so now it's unfinished on two platforms.
> And in anycase there is nothing inherently wrong with using Win '95.
Except for it being a broken, bloated, buggy pile of steaming crap that's
a pain in the arse to use, no.
Nope, I'm still not convinced. I shan't hold my breath for this stuff
any more than I held my breath for Tornado.
--Paul
Jochen Lueg
> Many Acorn
> browsers will not be able to render this page properly - ArcWeb is known
> to
> produce something readable anyway, and I have heard Acorn Browse doesn't
> do
> too bad a job either.
So what is the point? If you have a website aimed at Acorn users, why not
write it so that we can all see it?
Jochen
--
------------------------------------------------------------
Margaret and/or Jochen Lueg (ZFC B) tu...@argonet.co.uk
http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/tudor
------------------------------------------------------------
Both working in: Limavady College lim.c...@argonet.co.uk
http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/lim.college
Vincent Lefevre
> The address is http://www.nedprod.com/programs/RISC-OS/Wimp2. Many Acorn
> browsers will not be able to render this page properly - ArcWeb is known to
Is it another way to say that you don't know how to write standard HTML? :)
At least, Acorn browsers render standard HTML (almost) correctly, which
is not the case of Netscrape 3 or 4 (which can make a page unreadable).
--
Vincent Lefevre <Vincent...@ens-lyon.fr> - PhD stud. in Computer Science
Web: http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vlefevre/ - 100% validated HTML - Acorn Risc PC,
Yellow Pig 17, Championnat International des Jeux Mathematiques et Logiques,
TETRHEX, Faits divers insolites, etc...
ne...@my-dejanews.com
p...@sktb.demon.co.uk wrote:
> In article <77922h$d46$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
> ne...@my-dejanews.com writes:
>
> > browsers will not be able to render this page properly - ArcWeb is known to
>
> That makes me very confident. Oh yes indeed. It is easy to create pages
> that work in all browsers - as long as you avoid pointless gimmicks. But
> these pages are so full of pointless gimmicks that they won't work in
> some browsers - the very browsers most likely to be used by the target
> audience.
Have you actually gone to look at the pages before coming out with this? As it
happens, I write HTML 1.0 compatible pages using (of all things) FrontPage 98.
These web pages are viewable using everything from the original CERN web
browser, www, to more modern browsers like the upcoming IE5. Go to
http://www.nedprod.com/compatibility.html for the nedprod.com browser
compatibility guide which lists what is missing for whichever of the top 20
browsers which visit nedprod.com. Acorn ones don't feature here BTW.
However, on those browsers with support for later technology, that technology
is used. Hence extensive use is made of javascript, tables and stylesheets.
If your browser doesn't understand any of these things, it won't matter to
what content you're shown if that browser is written and tested properly.
Unfortunately, Acorn browsers aren't often up to the par (although I will
admit I'm still using the same ArcWeb Justin Fletcher gave me when I called
to his house about two years ago, so I may be wrong now).
I don't use my Acorn much anymore. I certainly don't browse the web with it -
a PC with IE4 is a far better tool with which to do this. Hence I haven't
tried looking at my website with my Acorn, and so I couldn't say whether
they'll work or not. That's all. It isn't my fault - it's the relevent Acorn
browsers.
> But he wants us to believe that the actual product will be
> largely compatible with most apps. If he had a clue about making stuff
> compatible, his web pages would work with all Acorn browsers and Lynx
> too.
It *is* *fully* compatible with Lynx. I never said it wasn't.
And BTW, I've never claimed Wimp2 will be "largely compatible with most
apps". Wimp2 itself isn't at all - they will need to be rewritten. The patch
OTOH will work with around half of existing apps from what I have tested it
against.
> Oh look, he's using a dejanews address - not a good sign. And posting
> using IE 4.01 running on Win95. Yep, I'm *really* convinced now...
I use dejanews because I don't have access to usenet any other way. I use IE4
because it's the best web browser available. I use Win95 for games and
internet stuff, I use WinNT for all my development and other work. I use my
Acorn for some contract work and tinkering with when I'm bored. No other use
for it anymore :(
Cheers,
Niall
Justin Fletcher
p...@sktb.demon.co.uk (Paul L. Allen) wrote:
> In article <b6e53c248%Jus...@helen.winsley.org>
> Justin Fletcher <ge...@innocent.com> writes:
>
> > In message <f0CSv...@sktb.demon.co.uk>
> > p...@sktb.demon.co.uk (Paul L. Allen) wrote:
> >
> > > In article <77922h$d46$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
> > > ne...@my-dejanews.com writes:
> > >
> > > > The address is http://www.nedprod.com/programs/RISC-OS/Wimp2. Many
> > > > Acorn browsers will not be able to render this page properly - ArcWeb
> > > > is known to produce something readable anyway, and I have heard Acorn
> > > > Browse doesn't do too bad a job either. Try different browsers and
> > > > see.
> > >
> > > That makes me very confident. Oh yes indeed. It is easy to create
> > > pages that work in all browsers - as long as you avoid pointless
> > > gimmicks. But these pages are so full of pointless gimmicks that they
> > > won't work in some browsers - the very browsers most likely to be used
> > > by the target audience. But he wants us to believe that the actual
> > > product will be largely compatible with most apps. If he had a clue
> > > about making stuff compatible, his web pages would work with all Acorn
> > > browsers and Lynx too.
> >
> > You've got to admit that however his pages are much better than just
> > saying 'Bog off', haven't you ?
>
> Much better in what respect? In using valid HTML? In working with all
In the respect of thinking that the author has something worthwhile to say.
> browsers including Lynx? In whether or not the author has to warn people
> that the pages won't be able to render the page properly? In communicating
> something (for instance, Paul Allen's attitude to those who think he has a
> duty to put up web pages to entertain them) effectively and concisely?
Erm... am I confused ? I'm /replying/ to Paul Allen and yet you're talking
in the third party... Has this message been imported badly.
> > Aside from the minor detail of the tables not rendering in quite the same
> > way in a browser with them disabled. I wouldn't say that the pages were in
> > any particular way unreadable.
>
> You might not. *He* did. It's not hard to produce pages that work in all
> browsers. Most HTML constructs from w3c can be used in a way which degrades
Agreed!
> well on browsers that don't support them. It's not hard to check that
> pages are going to work on all browsers - there are plenty of good
> validators and compatibility testers around, like
This is true.
> He's producing something which is going to have major compatibility
> problems unless he does it right. That means he needs the right attitude
> and methodoloy in the first place. His pages, which either don't work on
> Acorn browsers or he thinks won't work BECAUSE HE COULDN'T BE ARSED TO
> CHECK do not fill me with confidence that he has the right attitude. Do
> you understand what I'm getting at?
I understand that he doesn't use Acorn computers as his main platform and
therefore has no reason to own Browse, WebsterXL or Fresco which are
commercial products, but does have access to ArcWeb and maybe Webster, plus
feedback from other users.
It is not unreasonable in that case I feel. It's odd; I'll give him that,
but I don't think that he's someone I would like to question the technical
competance of by a long way. That, however is from knowing him more than
from just looking at his site. I guess I was wrong to suggest that you should
think differently after only having read the page and not knowing about
him in general.
> > > Oh look, he's using a dejanews address - not a good sign. And posting
> >
> > Agreed. But we all know Niall anyhow.
>
> We *all* know him, do we? Until you mentioned Tornado, I didn't have a
> clue who it was.
Maybe I made a rash assumption there. I assumed that Niall was a known
quantity and that people would remember him relatively well. I was mistaken,
for which I apologise.
> > > using IE 4.01 running on Win95. Yep, I'm *really* convinced now...
> >
> > What's wrong with that ?
>
> It's not an Acorn machine. Which means he's not using an Acorn machine
> for Internet access. Try to figure out the implications of that for
I struggle to find your point here.
> yourself - like how strongly he feels a need to improve Acorn machines
> when he's using a different box anyway.
Well, maybe if this is the reception he's going to get in trying to help
the cause he'll go back to his PC with a feeling of relief that he can
simply make money.
> > Or are you commenting on something without checking about the other stuff
> > he's working on ?
>
> I might consider stuff he has successfully *completed* in the past as a
> guide to future performance. If all he has is stuff he's working on,
> without ever completing it, I don't consider that a useful indicator
You may be right.
> (except that he has a lot of *unfinished* stuff, so maybe he won't finish
> this either).
Well, if we reckon he's not going to finish it then we may just write him
off I guess. Pity because it looked like a good idea. Sad really.
Pity that Fresco hasn't gone through a version without crashing at some
point. I shall never bother using it again because I know from that that
ANT have a bad track record. Pity I couldn't get Netscape to compile under
SunOS, well obviously the company didn't put enough effort into developing
it to make it work. Pity I haven't found a girlfriend I can stay with yet.
Obviously I shouldn't bother with girls as it's obviously not worthwhile.
[snip]
> > And in anycase there is nothing inherently wrong with using Win '95.
>
> Except for it being a broken, bloated, buggy pile of steaming crap that's
> a pain in the arse to use, no.
You and Dave Kingdon would get on just famously, I think.
> Nope, I'm still not convinced. I shan't hold my breath for this stuff
> any more than I held my breath for Tornado.
Fair enough.
Maybe I defend him because I feel he's a friend. Maybe because I feel
your comments were unjustified.
Vincent Lefevre
<ne...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> However, on those browsers with support for later technology, that technology
> is used. Hence extensive use is made of javascript, tables and stylesheets.
> If your browser doesn't understand any of these things, it won't matter to
> what content you're shown if that browser is written and tested properly.
> Unfortunately, Acorn browsers aren't often up to the par (although I will
> admit I'm still using the same ArcWeb Justin Fletcher gave me when I called
> to his house about two years ago, so I may be wrong now).
But ArcWeb is very old, thus not a very good example (try a very old
browser on a PC... you'll have similar problems). Concerning JS, even
when I use Netscrape, I disable it, because it isn't secure and has
annoying bugs. Concerning the tables, any recent RISC OS browser can
display them. Concerning the stylesheets, the document should be still
readable and keep its structure (titles, etc.).
In the fr.* announce newsgroup for web pages, users say, e.g., if JS
is not used / optional / needed and things like that, but not if the
page works with given browsers.
Darren Salt
> In article <b6e53c248%Jus...@helen.winsley.org>
> Justin Fletcher <ge...@innocent.com> writes:
>> In message <f0CSv...@sktb.demon.co.uk>
>> p...@sktb.demon.co.uk (Paul L. Allen) wrote:
[snip]
>>> If [Niall] had a clue about making stuff compatible, his web pages would
>>> work with all Acorn browsers and Lynx too.
>> You've got to admit that however his pages are much better than just
>> saying 'Bog off', haven't you ?
> Much better in what respect? In using valid HTML? In working with all
> browsers including Lynx? In whether or not the author has to warn people
> that the pages won't be able to render the page properly?
Well... it could be worse. He could be using lots of Javascript and saying
"if you can't view it, that's your problem; use M$IE or Netscrape 4" and
refusing to alter it to work without Javascript (and if you've been reading
comp.sys.sinclair over the last few weeks, you'll know who I mean).
> In communicating something (for instance, Paul Allen's attitude to those
> who think he has a duty to put up web pages to entertain them) effectively
> and concisely?
Well, you do, don't you? ;->
[snip]
> His pages, which either don't work on Acorn browsers or he thinks won't
> work BECAUSE HE COULDN'T BE ARSED TO CHECK do not fill me with confidence
> that he has the right attitude. [...]
Of course, one of the things that he hasn't checked for is bound to happen
almost immediately to *somebody*, most likely (given the nature of the
software) to cause a lockup, be it constant data aborts, a total freeze or
whatever. Said person will then complain (posting to .apps, possibly .misc
too), you'll say "I told you so", and we'll all nod in agreement.
[snip]
>>> And posting using IE 4.01 running on Win95. Yep, I'm *really* convinced
>>> now...
>> What's wrong with that ?
> It's not an Acorn machine. Which means he's not using an Acorn machine for
> Internet access. Try to figure out the implications of that for yourself -
> like how strongly he feels a need to improve Acorn machines when he's using
> a different box anyway.
There are people who post using Winbloats machines simply because they happen
to have 'free' access on those machines (work or whatever). But he isn't
necessarily one of these...
[snip more reasoned rant ;-) ]
>> And in anycase there is nothing inherently wrong with using Win '95.
> Except for it being a broken, bloated, buggy pile of steaming crap that's a
> pain in the arse to use, no.
Or you could s/nothing/quite a lot/g s/ using//g :-)
> Nope, I'm still not convinced. I shan't hold my breath for this stuff any
> more than I held my breath for Tornado.
So... have you fallen unconscious due to oxygen deprivation while waiting for
either? ;-)
--
| Darren Salt anti-UCE | ds@youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | nr. Ashington,
| Risc PC, Spectrum +3, | ds@zap,uk,eu,org | Northumberland
| A3010, BBC Master 128 | arcsalt@spuddy,mew,co,uk | Toon Army
| <URL:http://www.youmustbejoking.demon.co.uk/> (PGP key here)
Reserve the apostrophe for it's proper use and omit it when its not needed.
Paul L. Allen
ne...@my-dejanews.com writes:
> In article <f0CSv...@sktb.demon.co.uk>,
> p...@sktb.demon.co.uk wrote:
> > In article <77922h$d46$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
> > ne...@my-dejanews.com writes:
> >
> > > The address is http://www.nedprod.com/programs/RISC-OS/Wimp2. Many
> > > Acorn browsers will not be able to render this page properly - ArcWeb
> > > is known to produce something readable anyway, and I have heard Acorn
> > > Browse doesn't do too bad a job either. Try different browsers and see.
> >
> > That makes me very confident. Oh yes indeed. It is easy to create pages
> > that work in all browsers - as long as you avoid pointless gimmicks. But
> > these pages are so full of pointless gimmicks that they won't work in
> > some browsers - the very browsers most likely to be used by the target
> > audience.
>
> Have you actually gone to look at the pages before coming out with this?
Why should I bother wasting my time on pages the author tells me will
not be rendered properly on browsers I use?
> As it happens, I write HTML 1.0 compatible
There is no such thing as HTML 1.0. There's HTML level 1 and level 2
defined in RFC 1866, there's no such thing as HTML 1.0.
> pages using (of all things) FrontPage 98.
Front page doesn't produce stuff which is compatible with HTML 3.2 or
HTML 4.0. Most FP-produced pages will fail validation not just because
of all the proprietary crap they add but because they will also contain
HTML which is broken.
> These web pages are viewable using everything from the original CERN web
> browser, www, to more modern browsers like the upcoming IE5. Go to
> http://www.nedprod.com/compatibility.html for the nedprod.com browser
> compatibility guide which lists what is missing for whichever of the top 20
> browsers which visit nedprod.com. Acorn ones don't feature here BTW.
So why say Acorn browsers will have problems with it? All the Acorn
browsers I've used do a better job of HTML level 2 than Netscape and IE
did.
> However, on those browsers with support for later technology, that technology
> is used. Hence extensive use is made of javascript, tables and stylesheets.
Sigh. You claimed you wrote stuff for HTML 1.0 (which doesn't exist).
Tables did not appear until HTML 3.0 (which was never released) and
weren't in any official spec until HTML 3.2.
> If your browser doesn't understand any of these things, it won't matter to
> what content you're shown if that browser is written and tested properly.
Tables tend not to show up all that well.
> Unfortunately, Acorn browsers aren't often up to the par (although I will
> admit I'm still using the same ArcWeb Justin Fletcher gave me when I called
> to his house about two years ago, so I may be wrong now).
You're using HTML 4.0 features and calling it HTML 1.0 (which doesn't
exist). Worse, you're writing pages for people using Acorn machines without
much thought or testing as to whether or not they work.
> I don't use my Acorn much anymore.
Precisely. It shows. What worries me is that your same cavalier lack
of concern about web page compatibility will also appear in your attitude
to making your pre-emptive multi-tasker compatible - you won't make the
effort because you don't use your Acorn much any more.
> > But he wants us to believe that the actual product will be
> > largely compatible with most apps. If he had a clue about making stuff
> > compatible, his web pages would work with all Acorn browsers and Lynx
> > too.
>
> It *is* *fully* compatible with Lynx. I never said it wasn't.
Lynx ignores tablem mark-up. You use tables.
> And BTW, I've never claimed Wimp2 will be "largely compatible with most
> apps". Wimp2 itself isn't at all - they will need to be rewritten. The patch
> OTOH will work with around half of existing apps from what I have tested it
> against.
So do they need to be rewritten as well as being patched?
> > Oh look, he's using a dejanews address - not a good sign. And posting
> > using IE 4.01 running on Win95. Yep, I'm *really* convinced now...
>
> I use dejanews because I don't have access to usenet any other way.
Not heard of freenet?
> I use IE4 because it's the best web browser available.
Bwahahahaha.
> I use Win95 for games and internet stuff, I use WinNT for all my
> development and other work. I use my Acorn for some contract work and
> tinkering with when I'm bored. No other use for it anymore :(
So what you're offering is something you tinkered with when you were bored
on a machine you have no use for any more. Doesn't sound particularly
encouraging to me. Do we know that your multi-tasker won't screw up
Internet usage? Apparently not...
--Paul
Paul L. Allen
Justin Fletcher <ge...@innocent.com> writes:
In that context it expresses my contempt for vanity homepages and those
who insist on having them. Also my contempt for those who think it is
necessary to see somebody's homepages in order to evaluate what they write
on usenet rather than taking it on its own merits.
I do have other worthwhile things to say, I just choose not to use
homepages to say them.
> > browsers including Lynx? In whether or not the author has to warn people
> > that the pages won't be able to render the page properly? In communicating
> > something (for instance, Paul Allen's attitude to those who think he has a
> > duty to put up web pages to entertain them) effectively and concisely?
>
> Erm... am I confused ? I'm /replying/ to Paul Allen and yet you're talking
> in the third party... Has this message been imported badly.
Nope. You saw pages that comminunicated something effectively. In that
case, my attitude to certain people. For those who understand English,
it was clearer to refer to myself by name in order to emphasise the
generic nature of what I wrote in that paragraph.
> > He's producing something which is going to have major compatibility
> > problems unless he does it right. That means he needs the right attitude
> > and methodoloy in the first place. His pages, which either don't work on
> > Acorn browsers or he thinks won't work BECAUSE HE COULDN'T BE ARSED TO
> > CHECK do not fill me with confidence that he has the right attitude. Do
> > you understand what I'm getting at?
>
> I understand that he doesn't use Acorn computers as his main platform and
> therefore has no reason to own Browse, WebsterXL or Fresco which are
> commercial products, but does have access to ArcWeb and maybe Webster, plus
> feedback from other users.
>
> It is not unreasonable in that case I feel. It's odd; I'll give him that,
> but I don't think that he's someone I would like to question the technical
> competance of by a long way.
I can only judge going by his attitude to constructing web pages. It's
easy enough to produce pages that work on just about any browser without
having particular browsers to hand. OK, you might hit a bug of one
particular browser by accident, but nobody's going to blame you for
that. Constructing pages using stuff which you have no idea whether
it will work or not on browsers used by your target audience is silly,
especially if you have no way of testing it. It indicates to me an
insufficient concern with compatibility. His multi-tasker is going to
cause a lot of compatibility problems unless he gives matters a lot of
thought and does a lot of testing - his attitude towards web pages does
not convince me that he will.
> > > > using IE 4.01 running on Win95. Yep, I'm *really* convinced now...
> > >
> > > What's wrong with that ?
> >
> > It's not an Acorn machine. Which means he's not using an Acorn machine
> > for Internet access. Try to figure out the implications of that for
>
> I struggle to find your point here.
Will his multi-tasker work with various Acorn IP stacks? He won't know -
he doesn't use his Acorn machine for that. Will his multi-tasker work
with various other apps? He won't know - he doesn't use his Acorn machine
for much at all.
> > yourself - like how strongly he feels a need to improve Acorn machines
> > when he's using a different box anyway.
>
> Well, maybe if this is the reception he's going to get in trying to help
> the cause he'll go back to his PC with a feeling of relief that he can
> simply make money.
Maybe.
> > (except that he has a lot of *unfinished* stuff, so maybe he won't finish
> > this either).
>
> Well, if we reckon he's not going to finish it then we may just write him
> off I guess. Pity because it looked like a good idea. Sad really.
It looked like a good idea. So did a lot of other things we've seen in
the past from commercial companies that ended up with a lot of people
feeling ripped off.
> Pity that Fresco hasn't gone through a version without crashing at some
> point. I shall never bother using it again because I know from that that
> ANT have a bad track record.
At least they released various versions...
> Pity I haven't found a girlfriend I can stay with yet. Obviously I
> shouldn't bother with girls as it's obviously not worthwhile.
Sounds like you should stick to inflatable sheep...
> Maybe I defend him because I feel he's a friend. Maybe because I feel
> your comments were unjustified.
I call 'em as I see 'em. I was not impressed by his attitude to web pages.
I've wanted pre-emptive multi-tasking for a long time. With a different
attitude from him about web design (and if you hadn't reminded me he was
behind Tornado) I might have have been eagerly waiting for the first
beta release and given it a try despite the risks. Now I know, I'll wait
for a *lot* of other people to try it and give favourable comments before
I risk it.
--Paul
ne...@my-dejanews.com
messages exchanged with you, and I really don't know where you get your
attitude from. But TBH csa.*, this type of message is why I left the Acorn
world for the past two-three years. It is arrogant ignorant dickheads in here
like you Mr. Allen who make writing for Acorns a chore, not a joy.
During the death of tornado during 96, I got a whole world load of abuse off
people in these newsgroups. Fair enough, much of it was deserved and I was and
am rightly apologetic. But twats like Mr. Allen here made it go all personal
and stuff back then and I feeling so sorry already never bothered to stand up
for myself.
Well, it's two years on now. I'm not that same person of then, and I sure as
hell am not going to put up with the shit arseholes like Mr. Allen here might
throw at me. I did wrong with tornado, I've apologised, I feel I've done my
time. Enough is enough.
So from now on, whenever Mr. Allen or anyone else who gives me the total toss
I received in this message, I'll simply tell them to go fuck themselves cos I
ain't bothered answering such drivel. Mr. Allen patently doesn't have a clue
about anything and I really couldn't waste time on people like him anymore.
So Mr. Allen, please accept the honour of being the first person here to be
told to ...
GO FUCK YOURSELF
... in these newsgroups. And same goes to anyone else who wants to write
drivel like this to or about me.
There we go. Apologies to all for the language, but I refuse to tone this
down. If you don't want my software, don't use it. But by God stop beating me
with this. Forgive and forget for crying out loud!
Cheers,
Niall
--- the toss & wank of Mr. Allen follows ... ---
> > > That makes me very confident. Oh yes indeed. It is easy to create pages
> > > that work in all browsers - as long as you avoid pointless gimmicks. But
> > > these pages are so full of pointless gimmicks that they won't work in
> > > some browsers - the very browsers most likely to be used by the target
> > > audience.
> >
> > > But he wants us to believe that the actual product will be
> > > largely compatible with most apps. If he had a clue about making stuff
> > > compatible, his web pages would work with all Acorn browsers and Lynx
> > > too.
> >
> > It *is* *fully* compatible with Lynx. I never said it wasn't.
>
> Lynx ignores tablem mark-up. You use tables.
>
> > And BTW, I've never claimed Wimp2 will be "largely compatible with most
> > apps". Wimp2 itself isn't at all - they will need to be rewritten. The patch
> > OTOH will work with around half of existing apps from what I have tested it
> > against.
>
> So do they need to be rewritten as well as being patched?
>
> > > Oh look, he's using a dejanews address - not a good sign. And posting
> > > using IE 4.01 running on Win95. Yep, I'm *really* convinced now...
> >
> > I use dejanews because I don't have access to usenet any other way.
>
> Not heard of freenet?
>
> > I use IE4 because it's the best web browser available.
>
> Bwahahahaha.
>
> > I use Win95 for games and internet stuff, I use WinNT for all my
> > development and other work. I use my Acorn for some contract work and
> > tinkering with when I'm bored. No other use for it anymore :(
>
> So what you're offering is something you tinkered with when you were bored
> on a machine you have no use for any more. Doesn't sound particularly
> encouraging to me. Do we know that your multi-tasker won't screw up
> Internet usage? Apparently not...
>
> --Paul
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Dickon Hood
ne...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
: Look Mr. Allen, I don't know you nor have I ever had any dealings or even
: messages exchanged with you, and I really don't know where you get your
: attitude from.
At a guess, people like you...
: But TBH csa.*, this type of message is why I left the Acorn world for the
: past two-three years. It is arrogant ignorant dickheads in here like you
: Mr. Allen who make writing for Acorns a chore, not a joy.
I don't think you could fairly call him 'ignorant'. Unpleasant at times,
yes, abrupt, yes, ignorant, no.
: During the death of tornado during 96, I got a whole world load of abuse
: off people in these newsgroups. Fair enough, much of it was deserved and I
: was and am rightly apologetic. But twats like Mr. Allen here made it go all
: personal and stuff back then and I feeling so sorry already never bothered
: to stand up for myself.
: Well, it's two years on now. I'm not that same person of then, and I sure
: as hell am not going to put up with the shit arseholes like Mr. Allen here
: might throw at me. I did wrong with tornado, I've apologised, I feel I've
: done my time. Enough is enough.
: So from now on, whenever Mr. Allen or anyone else who gives me the total
: toss I received in this message, I'll simply tell them to go fuck
: themselves cos I ain't bothered answering such drivel. Mr. Allen patently
: doesn't have a clue about anything and I really couldn't waste time on
: people like him anymore.
Ummm, that post seemed a reasonable summary to me. You obviously got a
number of things wrong, and failed to address them in this followup,
preferring instead to slag him off with personal abuse. Drivel? I'd say so.
: So Mr. Allen, please accept the honour of being the first person here to be
: told to ...
: GO FUCK YOURSELF
: ... in these newsgroups. And same goes to anyone else who wants to write
: drivel like this to or about me.
I suggest he's not the first, but we do tend to like these groups to be
polite.
: There we go. Apologies to all for the language, but I refuse to tone this
: down. If you don't want my software, don't use it. But by God stop beating me
: with this. Forgive and forget for crying out loud!
So we're all supposed to 'forgive and forget' about this personal attack on
PLA? Erm, that's a touch hypocritical, no?
--
Dickon Hood
Due to binaries posted to non-binary newsgroups, my .sig is
temporarily unavailable. Normal service will be resumed as soon as
possible. We apologise for the inconvenience in the mean time.
Martyn Fox
<ne...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> GO [snip] YOURSELF
I usually feel that messages of this sort say more about the person
sending them than the person to whom they are directed.
Martyn
--
_
|\/| _ _ -+- _ |_ _ Windsor, Berks. UK mf...@argonet.co.uk
| | (_| | | (_| | ) | (_) )( G3SID@GB7WIR
ZFC Te _| Acorn Risc Pc with StrongARM - a Wintel-free zone!
Paul L. Allen
ne...@my-dejanews.com writes:
> Look Mr. Allen, I don't know you nor have I ever had any dealings
You're wrong. You posted to this group, I read what you posted.
> or even messages exchanged with you,
You're wrong. I responded to your posts. You responded to mine.
> and I really don't know where you get your attitude from.
It matters not one jot where my attitude comes from or even what my attitude
is but whether or not what I write is correct.
> But TBH csa.*, this type of message is why I left the Acorn
> world for the past two-three years. It is arrogant ignorant dickheads
> in here like you Mr. Allen who make writing for Acorns a chore, not a joy.
Ah, let me translate this into honest English: you don't like being
criticised. Few people do. But if the criticism is wrong then you
can shrug it off and ignore it. If the criticism is right then you
ought to do something about it other than complain.
> During the death of tornado during 96, I got a whole world load of abuse off
> people in these newsgroups.
None from me, you'll note.
> Fair enough, much of it was deserved and I was and am rightly apologetic.
You could have fooled me when you launch into your tirade against me. Some
people would have learned from experience. Although I frequently attacked
the Doggysoft crew in the past, one thing that impressed me about them was
that they always learned from experience. They never made the same mistake
twice (or at least not for the same reasons). Occasionally they didn't
understand why people were getting so upset with them but changed their ways
accordingly anyway on the principle that it's never a good idea if your
potential customers spend all their time slagging you off even if you
don't understand why.
> But twats like Mr. Allen here made it go all personal and stuff
Nope, I didn't get personal, you fucking cretin. You got personal, and
now I'm responding in kind, you moronic fuckwit. Now, shit-for-brains,
do you understand the difference between an objective criticism and a
personal attack? Probably not, because you seem to be too fucking
stupid to comprehend such subtleties.
Hint: the paragraph above was a personal attack constructed especially
so you could see the difference between objective criticism and a personal
attack.
> back then and I feeling so sorry already never bothered to stand up
> for myself.
Probably for the best, if this is an example of how you stand up for
yourself.
> Well, it's two years on now. I'm not that same person of then,
Do you think the person you are now is an improvement?
> and I sure as hell am not going to put up with the shit arseholes like
> Mr. Allen here might throw at me.
You seem to be rather hard of thinking, so let me explain something to you.
This is Usenet - we can each post what we like. You don't get to dictate
what I post and I don't get to dictate what you post. You can certainly
respond to the "shit" I "throw at you" but that won't stop me "throwing" it
so you'll still have to put up with it, unless you learn how to use a
killfile.
> I did wrong with tornado, I've apologised, I feel I've done my
> time. Enough is enough.
Have you ever heard of "learning from experience" or do you feel that it
is sufficient to repeat the same mistakes over and over?
> So from now on, whenever Mr. Allen or anyone else who gives me the total
> toss I received in this message, I'll simply tell them to go fuck
> themselves cos I ain't bothered answering such drivel.
Telling people to "fuck themselves" is answering them. It doesn't give
them the answer they might wish for, and it may give others the impression
that you have no defense for the criticisms levelled against you, but it
is an answer.
> Mr. Allen patently doesn't have a clue about anything
You mean I was wrong when I pointed out that you couldn't have written
your pages to conform to "HTML 1.0" as there was no such thing and that
you'd actually produced pages that used features of HTML 4.0? I think
not. You mean I was wrong to worry about how your multi-tasker would
interact with Internet applications when you don't use your Acorn on the
Internet so would have no incentive to make those work? I think not.
> and I really couldn't waste time on people like him anymore.
You just did.
> So Mr. Allen, please accept the honour of being the first person here to be
> told to ...
>
> GO FUCK YOURSELF
I'll take that as an admission that my criticisms of you were correct and
you couldn't come up with any refutations of them.
> There we go. Apologies to all for the language, but I refuse to tone this
> down. If you don't want my software, don't use it. But by God stop beating me
> with this. Forgive and forget for crying out loud!
This is Usenet. You get to post what you want; I get to post what I want...
> --- the toss & wank of Mr. Allen follows ... ---
You mean the criticisms you couldn't refute. People already saw those
in my post so you wasted bandwidth by quoting it all without putting in
any responses. They can thread back if they want to see my criticisms of
you again. If they want to see your reasoned refutations of those
criticisms, they'll have to take hallucinogenic drugs or travel to a
parallel universe because you didn't manage to come up with any.
--Paul
Julian Brown
Martyn Fox <mf...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <77ec9d$qjh$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> <ne...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
> > GO [snip] YOURSELF
>
> I usually feel that messages of this sort say more about the person
> sending them than the person to whom they are directed.
>
> Martyn
>
Far from being the friendly community Acorn users pride themselves on being,
it seems to me that many people are far too quick to criticise the work of
others. I, for one, would love to see pre-emptive multitasking support under
RISC OS, but from the largely sceptical reception that Niall has got (plus
the petty bickering about his HTML), I wouldn't be too surprised if he didn't
want to continue with the project. I hope this isn't the case.
You may like to know that an attempt to find out what Mr. Paul Allen has
contributed to the Acorn platform by playing 'guess-the-URL' on his Demon
account resulted in being told to "Bog Off", and not much else. Make of that
what you will (and don't forget his comments about web design }:-> )
Jules
(I resisted saying "can't we all just be nice to each other" all the way
through this post. Consider it implied.)
--
._________________________________________________.
| |
| Julian Brown, Queens' College Cambridge |
| <jt...@cam.ac.uk> http://jtb20.quns.cam.ac.uk |
|_________________________________________________|
Can't think of a funny tagline right now.
Rob Kendrick
I know I should /really/ stay out of this, but I couldn't resist.
In message <f1Doa...@sktb.demon.co.uk>
p...@sktb.demon.co.uk (Paul L. Allen) wrote:
> In article <77ec9d$qjh$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
> ne...@my-dejanews.com writes:
<snip>
> > and I really couldn't waste time on people like him anymore.
^^^^^^^
future tense
> You just did.
^^^
past tense
<snip>
Now can both of you stop wasting out bandwidth, and either discontinue
this 'discussion' or continue it over private email.
Cheers,
Rob Kendrick
--
E28F0018 E5D02000 E232202A E4C02001 1AFFFFFB E28F0004 EF020002
EF020011 445D456E 5E435D0A 43670A42 59455849 0B5E4C45 0000002A
http://www.kiwisoftware.demon.co.uk
Remove NOTSPAM to email personally.
10 REPEAT PRINT "Hello world!":UNTIL FALSE
Paul L. Allen
Julian Brown <jt...@cam.ac.uk> writes:
> You may like to know that an attempt to find out what Mr. Paul Allen has
> contributed to the Acorn platform by playing 'guess-the-URL' on his Demon
> account resulted in being told to "Bog Off", and not much else. Make of that
> what you will (and don't forget his comments about web design }:-> )
Indeed, make of that what you will. Firstly, you don't have to be an
alcoholic who knows how to drive in order to criticise drunk drivers.
Secondly, you'll find my contributions to the Acorn platform in
acknowledgements in the help files of various apps - nothing major, though.
Thirdly, what I write here stands or falls on its own merits - not what
I've done elsewhere, not what my web pages don't say, etc. - either what
I write is right or it is wrong.
I thought it was only c.s.a.misc which had the attitude that you're not
allowed to pick faults with what somebody posts if that person is warm and
cuddly and fwendly. It used to be the case that most people here used
better criteria for evaluating what people had to say...
--Paul
Rhodri James
Julian Brown <jt...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> Far from being the friendly community Acorn users pride themselves on
> being, it seems to me that many people are far too quick to criticise
> the work of others. I, for one, would love to see pre-emptive
> multitasking support under RISC OS, but from the largely sceptical
> reception that Niall has got (plus the petty bickering about his HTML),
> I wouldn't be too surprised if he didn't want to continue with the
> project. I hope this isn't the case.
I too would rather like to see PMT support beyond taskwindows, since I'm
basically lazy as a programmer. It has to be said that the elucidations
extracted from Niall without anaesthetic do not encourage me to believe
that Wimp2 will supply this feature without adding a great deal of grief
to my life. The devil is in the details, as they say, and the details
aren't terribly convincing.
--
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste herder to the masses
If you don't know who I work for, you can't misattribute my words to them
... Yes, I'll do another Light Stuff soon, honest
ne...@my-dejanews.com
Rhodri James <rho...@wildebst.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I too would rather like to see PMT support beyond taskwindows, since I'm
> basically lazy as a programmer. It has to be said that the elucidations
> extracted from Niall without anaesthetic do not encourage me to believe
> that Wimp2 will supply this feature without adding a great deal of grief
> to my life. The devil is in the details, as they say, and the details
> aren't terribly convincing.
Fair enough I guess. The best proof I can give you though (other than
releasing a beta which wouldn't be up to the high standards I produce) is
give you the API documentation, which is below. I'd also see first the
Tornado II support module demo on Acornet from whose codebase Wimp2 comes.
The tornado II support module is available on acornet at:
http://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/packages/archimedes/collections/uni-stuttgart/acorne
t/long/development/tornado/t2demo010a1.zip
Cheers,
Niall
--- APIs.txt ---
Wimp enhancer module API details (v0.25):
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The Wimp enhancer module provides kernel and wimp extensions and
enhancements for RISC-OS. This API documentation is split into several
sections: SWIs, Service Calls and the 17, 18 & 19 codes handler.
SWIs:
-=-=-
Wimp2_Version (&C0040)
On entry: Nothing
On exit:
R0=version of this module * 100
R1=version of RISC-OS present * 100
R2=version of floating point emulator * 100
R3=number of Wimp2 processes currently running
R4=base of Wimp2 heap
R5=number of dynamic area used by Wimp2 (if on RO3.5+). Zero otherwise.
Use:
This call returns useful information about Wimp2 and its internals.
Wimp2_ReadMonotonicTime (&C0041)
On entry: Nothing
On exit:
R0=low word of timer
R1=high word of timer
Use:
This call returns the value of a timer incremented 1000 times a second.
Wimp2_CallAfter (&C0042)
On entry:
R0=time from now to call routine in ms
R1=addr of routine
R2=R12 on entry
On exit: All preserved
Use:
This call calls the specified code at R1 after R0 milliseconds have
elapsed with R12 set to R2 on entry.
Your code is called in supervisor mode with interrupts enabled and so you
should take the usual precautions for calling SWIs and such. Note that you
should not take time when called by this method as the system is
effectively hung while you are in this call. You may corrupt R0, R1 and R12
if you wish.
Wimp2_StopCallAfter (&C0043)
On entry:
R0=addr of routine
R1=R12 on entry
On exit: All preserved
Used:
This call stops the scheduled call set up by Wimp2_CallAfter.
Wimp2_Initialise (&C0044)
On entry:
R0=version of module expected * 100
R1=ptr to name of this program instance
R2=ptr to routine to handle poll codes 17, 18 & 19
On exit:
R0=version of this support module * 100
R1=version of the RO Wimp * 100
R2=Wimp2 task handle of this app
R3=RO Wimp task handle of this app
Use:
This call begins the preemptive multitasking of your task.
NOTE: the routine for handling 17, 18 & 19 return codes is *immediately*
valid and may be started at any time - so make sure it's valid.
Wimp2_Closedown (&C0045)
On entry:
R0=wimp task handle (0 for current task)
On exit: Nothing
Use:
This call stops preemptively multitasking your task. Normally you now exit
using OS_Exit as per normal - or if you wish you can continue execution.
Wimp2_Poll (&C0046)
On entry:
R1=ptr to 256 bytes to have poll data returned into
On exit:
R0=wimp poll reason code
R1=preserved
R2=second timer
Use:
Use this call to fetch wimp messages sent to you by other wimp tasks.
Note however that if you have not called Wimp2_Poll recently that the
messages returned may be significantly out of date. Therefore you should
examine R2 against the last time you called Wimp2_Poll and if deemed
necessary, throw away messages returned. You should not need to throw away
redraw messages as these are collated for you anyway.
Messages returned are identical in format to Wimp_Poll: except that of
the redraw window request message (1) which is returned as the following
format instead:
+00: window handle
+04: work area min x
+08: work area min y
+12: work area max x
+16: work area max y
+20: base x of window work area
+24: base y of window work area
This message upon being received should be passed to Wimp2_RedrawWindow -
see its entry for details.
Finally, please note that if preemption has been halted using
Wimp2_HaltPreemption, Wimp2_Poll does an implicit Wimp2_RestartPreemption.
Wimp2_RedrawWindow (&C0047)
On entry:
R1=ptr to redraw block
On exit:
R0=flag on whether to continue
Use:
This call is very similar to Wimp_UpdateWindow except that when called
preemption is halted. Tornado_GetRectangle should then be called as
necessary in the same fashion as Wimp_GetRectangle.
As said above, preemption is halted during the redraw cycle. Therefore
you should try to make the redraw as quick as possible.
Unlike Wimp_RedrawWindow, this call may also be called at any time to
update a window.
Wimp2_GetRectangle (&C0048)
On entry:
R1=as for Wimp_GetRectangle
On exit:
R0 & R1 as for Wimp_GetRectangle
Use:
Use this call like Wimp_GetRectangle.
Wimp2_HaltPreemption (&C0049)
On entry: Nothing
On exit: Nothing
Use:
Use this call to suspend preemption. Internally the module sets the same
flag set by Wimp2_RedrawWindow.
NOTE: Not working correctly yet, please do not use.
Wimp2_RestartPreemption (&C004A)
On entry: Nothing
On exit: Nothing
Use:
Use this call to reenable preemption after its suspension by
Wimp2_HaltPreemption.
NOTE: Not working correctly yet, please do not use.
Wimp2_NeedReset (&C004B)
On entry: Nothing
On exit:
R0=zero if everything alright,
ptr to error blk of error if reset required
Use:
Use this call to check if your error handler was called through an error
occuring during the execution of the module's preemption handlers.
If R0 returns a non zero result, you can check the error code to see what
you should do. For example, if it is a fairly transient error (eg; Not a
block) which indicates data corruption of the module's lists then a restart
will more than likely work so you should shut yourself down using
Wimp2_Closedown and restart with Wimp2_Initialise.
Finally, note that memory full errors get dealt with internally by the
preemptor routine and you should not receive these. If you do, something is
seriously wrong and you should quit rather than restart.
Wimp2_SetPollMask (&C004C)
On entry:
R0=mask to be passed from hence to wimp poll
On exit:
R0=previous mask
Use:
Use this call to set what mask should be passed to Wimp_Poll when
the module calls it for you - this obviously affects what codes then will be
returned to you via Wimp2_Poll but do remember there may be a "stack" of
codes still waiting to be processed that will be unaffected by the mask
change. One useful use of this call is to enable or disable background
processing ie; that usually done when Wimp_PollIdle returns zero.
Wimp2_EnumerateTasks (&C004D)
On entry:
R0=0 for first call
On exit:
R0=updated to internal pointer, becomes <0 when finished enumeration
R1=Wimp2 task handle
R2=RO task handle
R3=name of task
R4=maximum slice in ms this task can have
R5=actual time in ms taken by this task so far
R6=threads running in this task
Use:
Use this call to see what tasks are currently being preempted by the Wimp2
module.
Wimp2_SetTaskData (&C004E)
On entry:
R1=Wimp2 task handle
R4=maximum slice in ms to give to this whole task (0=leave the same)
R5=new actual time taken
On exit:
R0-R3=preserved
R4=former max slice
Use:
Use this call to set the maximum slice and time taken for this Wimp2
task.
Service Calls:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Wimp2_PreWimpPoll (&C0040)
On entry:
R1=&C0040, this service call's number
R2=Wimp2 task handle of the task about to have Wimp_Poll called for it
On exit:
Ensure all registers are the same ie; do not claim this call
Use:
This service call is issued by the Wimp2 module just prior to the call to
Wimp_Poll made by Wimp2 on the behalf of the preempted task.
Wimp2_PostWimpPoll (&C0041)
On entry:
R1=&C0041, this service call's number
R2=Wimp2 task handle of the task which has just received control
On exit:
Ensure all registers are the same ie; do not claim this call
Use:
This service call is issued by the Wimp2 module just after Wimp_Poll,
called by Wimp2 on the behalf of the preempted task, has returned. Also, if
poll code number two was returned by Wimp_Poll, suitable Wimp_RedrawWindow
and Wimp_GetRectangle calls will have been made to collect the necessary
bounding rectangles prior to this call.
17, 18 & 19 poll code API
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
In C, your routine will be called as follows:
int routine(int msgno, int msgblk)
In assembler, this goes to:
R0=poll code number
R1=message block attached to poll code number
You should return in R0 a value to indicate what should be done with this
message:
0: This causes the message to be placed in the normal message queue to be
handled by Wimp2_Poll called by the main process.
1: This tells the module that the message has been dealt with and to take no
further action.
2: This tells the module to halt preemption and feed the message to the next
Wimp2_Poll called, and thereafter restart preemption on the next after that
Wimp2_Poll called. This is intended for the wimp patch ONLY.
Other return values are currently reserved.
Note that any changes you make to the message block pointed to by R1 are
permanent ie; it is directly the message block that will be put in the
message queue if R0=0 on exit. This can be advantageous or not.
Note also that this routine is NOT preempted. Therefore you should be fast to
finish your business. Also be aware that your have 256 bytes of stack
available and currently no more - if you extend over that you will invoke the
C stack extender and then things will become very nasty indeed as in fact the
stack resides in 'limbo' in RMA. So *ensure* this doesn't happen.
Please see the enclosed C example for how to implement this.