'My Moveon Ad Ticked Off The RNC'

[Tazmanian Devil]

'My Moveon Ad Ticked Off The RNC'

Todd Mattson writes, "I think my Moveon.org ad was one of them that
ticked off the RNC and boy does that make my day. Thing is, I didn't
really state that Bush is Hitler, nor do I believe that. I do, however,
know that he has said some rather scary stuff, and his administration is
hell bent on turning America into a police state. Here's the copy from
my ad... 'There ought to be limits to freedom.' - George W. Bush... 'If
this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so
long as I'm the dictator.' - George W. Bush... Don't let George W. Bush
run roughshod over our constitutional freedoms.' So George, if you don't
want to be compared to Hitler, then quit saying crap like that, learn
what patriotism REALLY means and quit mixing up nationalism with it, and
call off Ashcroft and his anti-freedom dogs. Otherwise, we Americans are
going to get the idea that you have other motives in addition to being
the most corrupt president ever."
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/01/con04003.html

GOP Scrubs Moveon's Bush-Hitler Ads

On Monday, RNC chair Ed Gillespie went berserk over an ad produced by a
Moveon volunteer drawing parallels between two statements by Bush and
Hitler. The RNC was so thrilled with its "find" that it copied the ad
onto its server and made it available for the world to watch.
Democrats.com linked to this page so readers could watch the ad and
judge for themselves. Obviously Web users must have found the ad very
persuasive! Why else would the RNC have SCRUBBED the video? They
replaced it with a boring page that only includes the ad text
(http://www.rnc.org/moveonvideo.htm) We can't show you the video, but we
can show you Google's cached copy the RNC press release, with the now-
scrubbed link to http://www.rnc.org/moveon2.mov. We will preserve this
RNC-scrubbed page for history's sake. Goebbels would be ,most proud of
his Republican descendants.
http://democrats.com/scrub/RNC-Moveon/

[Steven Litvintchouk]

Tazmanian Devil wrote:

> 'My Moveon Ad Ticked Off The RNC'
>
> Todd Mattson writes, "I think my Moveon.org ad was one of them that
> ticked off the RNC and boy does that make my day.

It also ticked off a lot of Jews including the Anti-Defamation League,
because as they correctly pointed out, comparing Bush to Hitler doesn't
revile Bush so much as it ends up trivializing what Hitler was really
like and what Hitler really did.

I wonder if that made his day too?

-- Steven L.

[zepp]

Except the ad made no direct comparison. It merely quoted some of
Putsch's more totalitarian utterances and left the viewer to draw
their own conclusions.

I think Putsch much more strongly resembles Mussolini: a strutting,
pretentious clown in a military costume with delusions of adequacy.
>
>
>
>-- Steven L.

-
"...too many whites are getting away with drug use."
-- Rush Limbaugh, on his short lived TV show
October 5, 1995

Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
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[Winston Smith, American Patriot]

Steven Litvintchouk <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in inimitable
style:

I see. So tell me that the comparisons between Saddam and Hitler made
unceasingly in these groups and in the media also did not trivialize what
Hitler did??

Did the ADL criticize THOSE comparisons???

The fact is, the actions of Hitler and Bush AND Saddam are comparable in
many of the important matters:

* All three invaded and occupied nations in wars of aggression

* ALL WARS OF AGGRESSION are unnecessary and thus criminal wars; and
therefore, all three are guilty of crimes against the peace

* The lives of innocents ("non-combatants") were taken, either incidentally
or intentionally, and those guilty of creating the chaos/war that created
the situation in which those lives were taken are ALSO responsible
criminally for the deaths of those innocents

When I see the ADL criticize all comparisons of Hitler and ANY-MONSTER-ON-
THE-PLANET, then your response will have more meaning.

Perhaps you'd like to cite the link where the ADL criticizes Saddam/Hitler
comparisons.

--

The world is too dangerous to live in---not because of the people
who do evil, but because of the people who sit and let it happen."

--- attributed to Albert Einstein

[Server 13]

Cleopatra wrote:

> Steven Litvintchouk <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message news:<AEVKb.31091$IM3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

> Great observation, Steven. When leftists start in with this Hitler and
> tyranny business the second a republican is elected president,

You mean the second a republican starts calling critics unpatriotic.

they
> not only trivialize real evil

Nope. evil is as evil does.

but debase the language.

Nope. Calling critics unamerican debases the language, and the nation.

Most of these
> twits have absolutely no conception of what real evil is,

Nope. most of us twits go to church.

where people
> are actually jailed, beaten, tortured and killed en masse, so that
> when the real thing does come along they'll be bereft of language
> adequate to the task of describing what is REALLY going on.

Sorry, compare the vocabularies of the average dem to the average repub to
see how stupid this one is.

Like the
> little boy who cried wolf once too often, they'll have not a shred of
> credibility left and will be devoured by *real* wolves when those
> events come to pass.

You want to talk about losing credibility?

Bush asks Daschle to limit Sept. 11 probes (And now we know why)

http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/01/29/inv.terror.probe/

WASHINGTON (CNN) --President Bush personally asked Senate Majority
Leader Tom Daschle Tuesday to limit the congressional investigation into
the events of September 11, congressional and White House sources told
CNN.

The request was made at a private meeting with congressional leaders
Tuesday morning. Sources said Bush initiated the conversation.

He asked that only the House and Senate intelligence committees look
into the potential breakdowns among federal agencies that could have
allowed the terrorist attacks to occur, rather than a broader inquiry
that some lawmakers have proposed, the sources said

Tuesday's discussion followed a rare call to Daschle from Vice President
Dick Cheney last Friday to make the same request.

"The vice president expressed the concern that a review of what happened
on September 11 would take resources and personnel away from the effort
in the war on terrorism," Daschle told reporters.

But, Daschle said, he has not agreed to limit the investigation.

"I acknowledged that concern, and it is for that reason that the
Intelligence Committee is going to begin this effort, trying to limit
the scope and the overall review of what happened," said Daschle,
D-South Dakota.

"But clearly, I think the American people are entitled to know what
happened and why," he said.

Cheney met last week in the Capitol with the chairmen of the House and
Senate intelligence committees and, according to a spokesman for
Senate Intelligence Chairman Bob Graham, D-Florida, "agreed to cooperate
with their effort."

The heads of both intelligence committees have been meeting to map out a
way to hold a bipartisan House-Senate investigation and hearings.

They were discussing how the inquiry would proceed, including what would
be made public, what would remain classified, and how broad the
probe would be.

Graham's spokesman said the committees will review intelligence matters
only.

"How ill prepared were we and why? We are looking towards the
possibility of addressing systemic problems through legislation," said
spokesman Paul Anderson.

Some Democrats, such as Sens. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut and Robert
Torricelli of New Jersey, have been calling for a broad inquiry looking
at various federal government agencies beyond the intelligence
community.

"We do not meet our responsibilities to the American people if we do not
take an honest look at the federal government and all of its agencies
and let the country know what went wrong," Torricelli said.

"The best assurance that there's not another terrorist attack on the
United States is not simply to hire more federal agents or spend more
money. It's to take an honest look at what went wrong. Who or what
failed? There's an explanation owed to the American people," he said.

Although the president and vice president told Daschle they were worried
a wide-reaching inquiry could distract from the government's war on
terrorism, privately Democrats questioned why the White House feared a
broader investigation to determine possible culpability.

"We will take a look at the allocation of resources. Ten thousand
federal agents -- where were they? How many assets were used, and what
signals were missed?" a Democratic senator told CNN.

-----------------------------

Bush Quashed FBI bin Laden Probe. Why did Bush block FBI investigator
John O' Neil from entering Yemen in August 2001 to investigate the
"USS Cole" bombing?

The US ambassador to Yemen, Ms Barbara Bodine, forbade O'Neill and his
team of so- called Rambos (as the Yemeni authorities called them) from
entering Yemen. In August 2001, O'Neill resigned in frustration and
took up a new job as head of security at the World Trade Centre. He
died in the September 11th attack.

O'Neill:...clear evidence in Yemen of bin Laden's guilt in the
bombing of the USS Cole...State Department prevented him from
getting it."

O'Neill investigated the bombings of the World Trade Centre in 1993, a
US base in Saudi Arabia in 1996, the US embassies in Nairobi and
Dar-Es-Salaam in 1998, and the USS Cole last year.

Laila Helms, the part Afghan niece of the former CIA director and
former US ambassador to Tehran Richard Helms, is described as the
Mata-Hari of US-Taliban negotiations

Ms Helms brought Sayed Rahmatullah Hashimi, an adviser to Mullah Omar,
to Washington for five days in March 2001 - after the Taliban had
destroyed the ancient Buddhas of Bamiyan. Hashimi met the directorate
of Central Intelligence at the CIA and the Bureau of Intelligence and
Research at the State Department.

In negotiations which continued until July, the US then took a more
discreet position, letting the UN envoy Francesc Vendrell do most of
the work and appointing a former US ambassador to Pakistan, Thomas
Simons, to represent the US at informal meetings in Berlin.

The last direct US contact with the Taliban was on August 2nd, 2001,
when Christina Rocca, the director of Asian affairs at the State
Department, met the Taliban ambassador in Islamabad. Ms Rocca was
previously in charge of contacts with Islamist guerrilla groups at the
CIA, where in the 1980s, she oversaw the delivery of Stinger missiles
to Afghan mujaheddin.

The last direct US contact with the Taliban was on August 2nd, 2001.

"At one moment during the negotiations, the U.S. representatives told
the Taliban, 'either you accept our offer of a carpet of gold, or we
bury you under a carpet of bombs'," Brisard said in an interview in
Paris."
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/world/2001/1119/wor8.htm

----------------------------

http://www.earthisland.org/project/newsPage2.cfm?newsID=491&pageID=177&subSiteID=4

America's Ministry of Propaganda Exposed

By Gar Smith / The-Edge

November 7, 2003

A Strategy of Lies: How the White House Fed the Public a Steady Diet
of Falsehoods

Colonel Sam Gardiner (USAF, Ret.) has identified 50 false news stories
created and leaked by a secretive White House propaganda apparatus.

Bush administration officials are probably having second thoughts
about their decision to play hardball with former US Ambassador Joseph
Wilson. Joe Wilson is a contender.

When you play hardball with Joe, you better be prepared to deal with
some serious rebound.

After Wilson wrote a critically timed New York Times essay exposing as
false George W. Bush's claim that Iraq had purchased uranium from
Niger, high officials in the White House contacted several Washington
reporters and leaked the news that Wilson's wife was a CIA agent.

Wilson isn't waiting for George W. Bush to hand over the perp.

In mid-October, the former ambassador began passing copies of an
embarrassing internal report to reporters across the US.

The-Edge has received copies of this document.

The 56-page investigation was assembled by USAF Colonel (Ret.) Sam
Gardiner.

"Truth from These Podia: Summary of a Study of Strategic Influence,
Perception Management, Strategic Information Warfare and Strategic
Psychological Operations in Gulf II" identifies more than 50 stories
about the Iraq war that were faked by government propaganda artists in
a covert campaign to "market" the military invasion of Iraq.

Gardiner has credentials.

He has taught at the National War College, the Air War College and the
Naval Warfare College and was a visiting scholar at the Swedish
Defense College.

According to Gardiner, "It was not bad intelligence" that lead to the
quagmire in Iraq, "It was an orchestrated effort [that] began before
the war" that was designed to mislead the public and the world.

Gardiner's research lead him to conclude that the US and Britain had
conspired at the highest levels to plant "stories of strategic
influence" that were known to be false.

The Times of London described the $200-million-plus US operation as a
"meticulously planned strategy to persuade the public, the Congress,
and the allies of the need to confront the threat from Saddam
Hussein."

The multimillion-dollar propaganda campaign run out of the White House
and Defense Department was, in Gardiner's final assessment
"irresponsible in parts" and "might have been illegal."

"Washington and London did not trust the peoples of their democracies
to come to the right decisions," Gardiner explains.

Consequently, "Truth became a casualty. When truth is a casualty,
democracy receives collateral damage."

For the first time in US history, "we allowed strategic psychological
operations to become part of public affairs... [W]hat has happened is
that information warfare, strategic influence, [and] strategic
psychological operations pushed their way into the important process
of informing the peoples of our two democracies."

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld announced plans to create an Office
of Strategic Influence early in 2002.

At the same time British Prime Minister Tony Blair's Strategy Director
Alastair Campbell was setting up an identical operation in London.

As soon as Pvt. Jessica Lynch was airlifted from her hospital bed, the
first call from her "rescue team" went, not to military officials but
to Jim Wilkinson, the White House's top propaganda official stationed
in Iraq.

White House critics were quick to recognize that "strategic influence"
was a euphemism for disinformation.

Rumsfeld had proposed establishing the country's first Ministry of
Propaganda.

The criticism was so severe that the White House backed away from the
plan.

But on November 18, several months after the furor had died down,
Rumsfeld arrogantly announced that he had not been deterred.

"If you want to savage this thing, fine: I'll give you the corpse.
There's the name. You can have the name, but I'm gonna keep doing
every single thing that needs to be done -- and I have."

Gardiner's dogged research identified a long list of stories that
passed through Rumsfeld's propaganda mill.

According to Gardiner, "there were over 50 stories manufactured or at
least engineered that distorted the picture of Gulf II for the
American and British people."

Those stories include:

The link between terrorism, Iraq and 9/11

Iraqi agents meeting with 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta

Iraq's possession of chemical and biological weapons.

Iraq's purchase of nuclear materials from Niger.

Saddam Hussein's development of nuclear weapons.

Aluminum tubes for nuclear weapons

The existence of Iraqi drones, WMD cluster bombs and Scud missiles.

Iraq's threat to target the US with cyber warfare attacks.

The rescue of Pvt. Jessica Lynch.

The surrender of a 5,000-man Iraqi brigade.

Iraq executing Coalition POWs.

Iraqi soldiers dressing in US and UK uniforms to commit atrocities.

The exact location of WMD facilities

WMDs moved to Syria.

Every one of these stories received extensive publicity and helped
form indelible public impressions of the "enemy" and the progress of
the invasion.

Every one of these stories was false.

"I know what I am suggesting is serious. I did not come to these
conclusions lightly," Gardiner admits.

"I'm not going to address why they did it. That's something I don't
understand even after all the research."

But the fact remained that "very bright and even well-intentioned
officials found how to control the process of governance in ways never
before possible."

A Battle between Good and Evil

Gardiner notes that cocked-up stories about Saddam's WMDs "was only a
very small part of the strategic influence, information operations and
marketing campaign conducted on both sides of the Atlantic."

The "major thrust" of the campaign, Gardiner explains, was "to make a
conflict with Iraq seem part of a struggle between good and evil.
Terrorism is evil... we are the good guys.

"The second thrust is what propaganda theorists would call the 'big
lie.' The plan was to connect Iraq with the 9/11 attacks. Make the
American people believe that Saddam Hussein was behind those attacks."

The means for pushing the message involved: saturating the media with
stories, 24/7; staying on message; staying ahead of the news cycle;
managing expectations; and finally, being prepared to "use information
to attack and punish critics."

Audition in Afghanistan

The techniques that proved so successful in Operation Iraqi Freedom
were first tried out during the campaign to build public support for
the US attack on Afghanistan.

Rumsfeld hired Rendon Associates, a private PR firm that had been
deeply involved in the first Gulf War.

Founder John Rendon (who calls himself an "information warrior")
proudly boasts that he was the one responsible for providing thousands
of US flags for the Kuwaiti people to wave at TV cameras after their
"liberation" from Iraqi troops in 1991.

The White House Coalition Information Center was set up by Karen
Hughes in November 2001.

(In January 2003, the CIC was renamed the Office for Global
Communications.)

The CIC hit on a cynical plan to curry favor for its attack on
Afghanistan by highlighting "the plight of women in Afghanistan."
CIC's Jim Wilkinson later called the Afghan women campaign "the best
thing we've done."

Gardiner is quick with a correction.

The campaign "was not about something they did. It was about a story
they created... It was not a program with specific steps or funding to
improve the conditions of women."

The coordination between the propaganda engines of Washington and
London even involved the respective First Wives.

On November 17, 2001, Laura Bush issued a shocking statement:

"Only the terrorists and the Taliban threaten to pull out women's
fingernails for wearing nail polish."

Three days later, a horrified Cherie Blaire told the London media, "In
Afghanistan, if you wear nail polish, you could have your nails torn
out."

Misleading via Innuendo

Time and again, US reporters accepted the CIC news leaks without
question.

Among the many examples that Gardiner documented was the use of the
"anthrax scare" to promote the administration's pre-existing plan to
attack Iraq.

In both the US and the UK, "intelligence sources" provided a steady
diet of unsourced allegations to the media to suggest that Iraq and Al
Qaeda terrorists were behind the deadly mailing of anthrax-laden
letters.

It wasn't until December 18, that the White House confessed that it
was "increasingly looking like" the anthrax came from a US military
installation.

The news was released as a White House "paper" instead of as a more
prominent White House "announcement."

As a result, the idea that Iraq or Al Qaeda were behind the anthrax
plot continued to persist.

Gardiner believes this was an intentional part of the propaganda
campaign.

"If a story supports policy, even if incorrect, let it stay around."

In a successful propaganda campaign, Gardiner wrote, "We would have
expected to see the creation [of] stories to sell the policy; we would
have expected to see the same stories used on both sides of the
Atlantic. We saw both. The number of engineered or false stories from
US and UK stories is long."

The US and Britain: The Axis of Disinformation

Before the coalition invasion began on March 20, 2003, Washington and
London agreed to call their illegal pre-emptive military aggression an
"armed conflict" and to always reference the Iraqi government as the
"regime."

Strategic communications managers in both capitols issued lists of
"guidance" terms to be used in all official statements.

London's 15 Psychological Operations Group paralleled Washington's
Office of Global Communications.

In a departure from long military tradition, the perception managers
even took over the naming of the war.

Military code names were originally chosen for reasons of security.

In modern US warfare, however, military code names have become "part
of the marketing."

There was Operation Nobel Eagle, Operation Valiant Strike, Operation
Provide Comfort, Operation Enduring Freedom, Operation Uphold
Democracy and, finally, Operation Iraqi Freedom.

The "Rescue" of Jessica Lynch

The Pentagon's control over the news surrounding the capture and
rescue of Pfc. Jessica Lynch receives a good deal of attention in
Gardiner's report.

"From the very beginning it was called an 'ambush'," Gardiner noted.

But, he pointed out, "If you drive a convoy into enemy lines, turn
around and drive back, it's not an ambush. Military officers who are
very careful about how they talk about operations would normally not
be sloppy about describing this kind of event," Gardiner complained.

"This un-military kind of talk is one of the reasons I began doing
this research."

One of the things that struck Gardiner as revealing was the fact that,
as Newsweek reported:

"as soon as Lynch was in the air, [the Joint Operations Center] phoned
Jim Wilkinson, the top civilian communications aide to CENTCOM Gen.
Tommy Franks."

It struck Gardiner as inexplicable that the first call after Lynch's
rescue would go to the Director of Strategic Communications, the White
House's top representative on the ground.

On the morning of April 3, the Pentagon began leaking information on
Lynch's rescue that sought to establish Lynch as "America's new
Rambo."

The Washington Post repeated the story it received from the Pentagon:
that Lynch "sustained multiple gunshot wounds" and fought fiercely and
shot several enemy soldier... firing her weapon until she ran out of
ammunition."

Lynch's family confused the issue by telling the press that their
daughter had not sustained any bullet wounds.

Lynch's parents subsequently refused to talk to the press, explaining
that they had been "told not to talk about it."

(Weeks later, the truth emerged. Lynch was neither stabbed nor shot.
She was apparently injured while falling from her vehicle.)

Rumsfeld and Gen. Myers let the story stand during an April 3 press
conference although both had been fully briefed on Lynch's true
condition.

"Again, we see the pattern," Gardiner observed.

"When the story on the street supports the message, it will be left
there by a non-answer. The message is more important than the truth.
Even Central Command kept the story alive by not giving out details."

Gardiner saw another break with procedure.

The information on the rescue that was released to the Post "would
have been very highly classified" and should have been closely
guarded. Instead, it was used as a tool to market the war.

"This was a major pattern from the beginning of the marketing campaign
throughout the war," Gardiner wrote.

"It was okay to release classified information if it supported the
message."

------------------------

US Soldiers to America: Bring Us Home Now
Monday, 13 October 2003, 10:29 am
Article: Jay Shaft
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0310/S00105.htm

US Soldiers to America: ''Bring us home now; we’re dying for oil and corporate
greed!''

Part 1 in a 5 part series
Interviews by Jay Shaft
Coalition For Free Thought In Media
12th October 2003

I had the unique opportunity to interview five US military servicemen who
just got back from Iraq, or in the case of two men, corresponded with their
wives so that I could ask questions of these soldiers by mail. When the two I
corresponded with came back just last week, I was able to complete the
interviews I started several months ago with some new details on how the war is
actually going.

I was shocked and angered when I found out how many of the service men hate
being in Iraq and want nothing to do with rebuilding and policing the devastated
nation. From the conversations I had, many soldiers never wanted to go over to
Iraq and fight, and the ones who had were now convinced of the awful crime that
had been committed against Iraq and our own troops. I was told very few soldiers
now believe in staying in Iraq, or want to stay in the country and serve any
more days.

The following interview was with an enlisted man, but someone very high up
in the enlisted ranks, with over 20 years of military service. I have promised
not to reveal his identity for reasons that he has a family and has been told
not to speak to journalists. He told me the Army had put a gag order on him
while he was home, and told him they would give him twenty years in prison if he
spoke out in any manner against the US or the government.

I took several weeks to finish this interview because of not being able to
safely be seen with this individual out of his fears of being caught speaking out.

He asked me to call him USA in all the transcripts of these interviews. I
have followed his wishes and tried to write what he said in the manner it was
said so as not to lose any impact. At times the interview was very rough and the
grammar is not perfect, but I tried to write this in his voice so that he can
tell the world how bad it is in Iraq. I truly want you to feel what he has
experienced in some way if possible.

CFTM-- “How are you today? Resting I hope?”

USA-- “Can’t sleep for sh..t and I have horrible nightmares when I do sleep.
I might be lucky to catch an hour at a time before the nightmares wake me up. I
slept easier in the combat then now that I’m away from there. Most awful place
I’ve ever been or served duty and I didn’t want to leave my guys. That was the
hardest part was leaving the guys I had been leading around and trying to keep
out of trouble and alive.”

CFTM-- “Did you see a lot of your buddies get killed? How did it affect you?”

USA-- “How the hell do you think it affected me? I saw over 30 of the men I
had to keep safe die, and over 100 get wounded and not come back. I still don’t
know if some of the wounded men made it or not. I was never told before I came
back home.”

CFTM-- “So it really was awful and as bad as some returning troops have
claimed?”

USA-- “It was like a long trip to hell that you knew you might return from.
Of course it is as bad as the soldiers say it is. Hell it’s even worse if the
truth has to come out. It’s a constant fu..ing nightmare trying to figure out
where the guerillas are going to hit, how to keep the civilians calm, and also
getting enough water and food to eat. That is one thing the media never really
told the Americans about, how bad it was when our convoys weren’t getting
through. We had to go to some Iraqi people and trade socks and underwear for
some food and a little water.”

CFTM-- “You really did get that desperate because I saw it in the foreign
media that the Iraqi civilians had stepped in and fed a whole bunch of troops
that had been days without food.”

USA-- -“Yeah, that ain’t no joke about getting help from the civilians right
after the invasion. We had a pretty good laugh about that and how the army owed
them some money for reimbursement. We would not have starved probably, but when
we got the food from the people it made sure we could still operate as a
functioning unit. It was a near thing that several guys almost died of
dehydration because we ran out of clean water for a few days.”

CFTM-- “Just keep going, I want to hear more about the hardships the
military and Bush made you go through. I want the American people to know what a
nightmare this war has become and what it’s doing to our service men over there.”

USA-- “Okay, well I can bitch about the problems like food being short and
water going bad, but I want to tell people about how bad the attacks on US and
coalition forces have gotten in the last month. In the last two weeks I was
there we were attacked at least 20 times a day if you count all the shots we
heard from random sniper or opportunity attacks. We were losing at least five
men a day to injuries and there was at least one of our unit killed every twenty
four hours.”

CFTM-- -“So you were getting one a day killed and at least five injured? Did
you know many of the guys killed?”

USA-- -“That’s a real dumb fu..ing question to ask me. You know what my rank
is, of course I knew them, I was the head NCO for years in our unit. I knew most
of the guys who died and I held a lot of hands as they were dying. You tell me
that’s not gonna to give you nightmares!”

“I had one guy tell me all he wanted was to see his little daughter; she was
born three days after the war started. He died in the sand holding my hand and
crying because his daughter would never know him. Tell me that’s fu..ing right.
Where was George Bush when this kid was gasping for air and spitting his blood
on foreign soil?”

CFTM-- -“I talked to you about this the other day. Do you think George Bush
is the wrong man to order troops into battle when he ducked it himself?”

USA-- -“That asshole went AWOL and never showed up for duty and then he has
the nerve to take us into two different wars that will be going on for years. I
do not believe he should be president of this country, he’s a complete idiot and
he’s controlled by madmen with a drive for only profits and getting oil.”

CFTM-- -“I just have to get this straight for the public, you are well
educated are you not? I mean you have had years of leadership training and
schools right? You sound very well informed and aware of the current lies and
manipulations, which I have not found in some other soldiers.”

USA-- -“I have a four year degree in the economics field and I am not a
soldier all the time. I am Reservist who just keeps getting caught on long duty
assignments. Believe it or not I read authors like Noam Chomsky, Gore Vidal, and
Jim Hightower, and went through three copies of ‘Stupid White Men’ by Michael
Moore while I was over there. I let people read parts of Mike’s book and they
were irate that Bush had screwed us so hard. I had parts of ‘Best Democracy
Money Can Buy’ mailed to me because I knew if I had the whole book it would get
stolen in a heartbeat.”

CFTM-- -“So you might be quite a bit more aware and well informed about the
real reasons for the war that others did not know. I don’t know of many line
soldiers reading Greg Palast or Noam Chomsky.”

USA-- -“I guess you’re right and that might be why I am trying to speak out
and let the Americans know that they are sending us to be slaughtered. If you
don’t mind I am going to cut through all the niceties and get down to why I am
going against every oath I took and giving you this interview. I am doing it for
the guys still over there and for the ones who are going. If I’m not careful
I’ll end up back there for another six months.”

CFTM-- -“Alright tell me what it was really like and don’t skip the gory
details. I want people to be shocked and offended enough to realize why you
spoke out and what it is doing to our military by sending them over there with
blind flag waving and cheers of false victory”

USA-- -“Well the first thing I would like to thank Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld,
and Congress for is that nice huge cut they made to Veterans Benefits as soon as
the war started. I am in the Reserves after years of active duty and now I
cannot get PTSD counseling or many medical benefits I used to take for granted.
I knew I would have the benefits because I was laying my life down for my
country. Now my benefits are cut by around 2/3 and I have to go to either group
therapy or pay for a private counselor out of my own pocket. What happens when
someone like me has been through enormous battle stress and combat fatigue and
then comes home to no counseling?”

“I’ll tell you what is going to happen, he will either kill himself or take
a bunch of people with him. Some of the guys coming back are going to have gone
through the worst time of their lives with their buddies dying and getting hurt,
and then they’ll find out they got screwed out of any counseling. It is the
greatest disservice America is committing against soldiers who fought for this
country and may come back wounded or horribly scarred. Medical services, school
aid to dependents, school aid for the vets, all slashed to the bare bones;
mental health and drug and alcohol counseling are being eliminated or the
waiting lists will be years long for whatever services manage to survive.”

“That is one thing the American people still have not really caught on to is
the fact that while they were screaming out ‘Support Our Troops’ the current
regime makers were fu..ing the military and veterans out of almost every social
program and non essential service that would make life easier.”

“Bush really fu..ked us while we were gone. We found out about after being
in the middle of heavy fighting for several weeks. It was one of the first
things I read in Stars and Stripes, and I thought it was a joke because it was
just to hard to believe Congress and our leaders would screw us that bad while
we were fighting and dying.”

CFTM-- -“Glad you brought that up about counseling because I wasn’t even
aware of it. Are you alright to talk about some of the civilian casualties you
witnessed and some of the horrifying images you told me about when we first
started talking?”

USA-- -“I want to talk about some of the children I saw killed for no
reason, maybe it will wake someone up who doesn’t believe it was happening, or
that it was very bad. I can tell you I will never forget the screams of the
wounded or orphaned kids, or the wailing of the parents who lost their kids. The
Iraqis and most Muslims have a very vocal way of mourning the dead by lamenting
and wailing for the dead. There is no mistaking a mother or father crying out in
pain for the loss of a child. They don’t cry like that unless there has been a
death. Sometimes after a bombing raid or an artillery attack you could here
hundreds of people wiling and weeping.”

“I have several grown children with grand kids about the age of most of the
dead children I saw in Iraq. I also have several kids who are about half grown
and I saw a lot of Iraqi children that age wandering around in charge of three
or four little ones because their parents were dead.”

“Let me tell you about the cluster bomb raid we saw wipe out a whole bunch
of little kids. It looked like they had already lost their parents and were
trying to salvage food from a destroyed Iraqi convoy by the side of the road we
were on. The kids were way off to the side about half a mile away by then when
we got the word that the Iraqi column was going to be hit with cluster bombs and
we had to clear the area. We got on the radio and tried to get the air strike
stopped but we were told it was too late to get it stopped.”

“We could see the body parts flying up into the air after the bombs hit. It
was terrible and we could not do a damn thing but watch it happen and scream
into the radio at the dumb sh.t pilot that was dropping the bombs. After the
strike was over we went to see if there were any survivors and all we found was
bits and pieces of little kids and here and there an arm or leg you could still
identify.”

CFTM-- -“Pretty rough stuff to have to see. Did that kind of thing happen a
lot?”

USA-- -“More than you can imagine until you’ve seen it over and over again.
Man I don’t want to talk about this sh.t anymore. It doesn’t help to talk about
it because it just makes me think about it again. I can’t even get any
counseling without having to pay for it.”

“Let all those people who support our troops in on that nice surprise that
Bush gave us. That’s how much we really mean to Bush, the Department of Defense
and all those other stupid assholes who keep saying how good we’re doing over
there. Let those patriotic morons go and fight and die for our country. Let them
leave their families behind for months and maybe come back home in a box. I’ll
be the first one to salute them or honor them when they die.”

“It’s just like Nam was in the beginning. I was twelve when my dad got back
and I’ll never forget the pain and agony he lived with the rest of his life. Its
kind of what I feel now, I suppose. I never thought I would ever serve in some
stuff that’s so much like Nam it isn’t funny. Now I really see what my pop went
through, and if I could I would go back in the past a few months, I would go
AWOL or turn conscientious objector on them, but it’s too late for that now.”

“I damn sure will not go back over there even if they throw me in
Leavenworth. I never could understand how a guy could be a conscientious
objector until what I just went through. I wish more guys would stand up and
tell Bush and the Pentagon they will not fight their war for oil. We should not
have to die for these rich bastards profits and enrichment.”

CFTM-- -“Thank you for taking the risk and talking to me. I know there will
be other soldiers who can’t speak out who will thank you for having the courage.”

USA-- -“It isn’t about courage it’s a matter of what’s right. This war is
killing the poor or middle class American men and women who went in the armed
forces to have college or some kind of better future. You don’t see the rich
kids joining up or any Senator’s kid dying in Iraq. It’s us little guys who are
dying over there or getting disabled for life. Where are the leaders that are
supposed to be looking out for the little man? They are elected to look after
out interests not the interests of Cheney and Halliburton, or any of the rest of
the fat cats piling up the profits while the blood of our soldiers flows over
their hands.”

CFTM-- -“Anything else you want to say to America? Any final thoughts or
words?”

USA-- -“Yeah! Wake up America! Your sons and daughters are dying for
nothing! This war is not about freedom or stopping terrorism. Bring us home now!
We are dying for oil and corporate greed!”

------------------------
PART 2:

US Soldiers to America: Bring Us Home Now
Tuesday, 14 October 2003, 11:35 am
Article: Jay Shaft
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0310/S00116.htm

US Soldiers to America: ''Bring Us Home Now! We’re dying for oil and corporate
greed!''

Interviews by Jay Shaft Part 2 of 5
Coalition For Free Thought In Media
10/13/03

The following interview was with a Sergeant First Class in the United
States Army. He has been deployed both in Afghanistan and most recently in Iraq
in Falujah and in Kirkuk, which have been the heart of Iraqi resistance and
attacks on US forces.

He tells an especially heartrending story of being ordered to fire on Iraqis
who were demonstrating against US occupation and were throwing rocks out of
anger and frustration. He also tells a story of watching his best fiend die
under hostile fire and not being able to do anything about it.

This interview is written in his own words and I have tried to leave it as
intact as possible so that his pain and anger can come through to you the
reader. I will warn you that the language is very rough and the grammar is not
always correct.

He has asked to be called Trooper 1 in all transcripts of these interviews.
I have taken as much caution as possible to preserve his identity so that he is
not punished, and so that his family will not feel any reprisals from the US
government. His biggest fear is that his family and friends will consider him
unpatriotic and not supportive of the US as a country.

I have changed some minor details in his story to futher ensure that the
military does not try to find him.

He still believes in the dream this country used to stand for and is torn
about saying anything bad about it and it’s leaders out of a beaten in loyalty
to the military and a repeatedly reinforced sense of duty to this nation above
all else.

CFTM-- “Hey how’s it going today? You feeling any better since I talked to
you the last time?” (CFTM Editors note: The first time I tried to get this
interview he broke down in tears and could not compose himself enough to talk
about what he had gone through. It is a very humbling experience to have a grown
man put his head on your shoulder and cry like a small child. I have had this
happen almost every time I have started to have these soldiers talk about the
horrors of Iraq and relieve some of the built up pain, hostility, and sense of
loss. This fact alone should convince anyone with doubts about how bad the
troops have it over there.)

Trooper 1-- “I think I can make it through this time. I really had it
finally hit me the other day about how many of my friends I saw die, and all the
other terrible sh*t I saw. I am starting to cry right now thinking about it all
over again. You must think I’m a big fu**ing baby breaking down like this.”

CFTM-- “Man there is no shame in feeling pain and hurt. I don’t think any
less of you for it. In fact you might need to cry it out and get rid of some of
the hurt. No matter what you say or how much you cry, I will not think any less
of you. This is what I want people to read about, the fact that a battle
hardened soldier is so devastated by what he has gone through.”

Trooper 1-- “Thanks man, you don’t know how much it means that you don’t
laugh at me or think I’m a pu..y. I had a fu..ing combat support REMF (rear
echelon mother fu..er ) laugh at me when I was coming home. I was on a MAC
(Military Airlift Command) flight and this asshole that had been in Doha, Qatar
and not even seen any combat was making fun of me. I almost killed him, if it
hadn’t been for the loadmaster I probably would have strangled him with my bare
hands or stuck him with my knife. I was not in any mood to take some non-combat,
skate duty piece of shits harassment or laughing. I put my life on the line and
this fu..er was gaming on me.”

CFTM-- “So he actually had the nerve to make fun of you when you cried over
all the buddies you lost? Wow that took a lot of guts on his part. Did that
happen to you more than once?”

Trooper 1-- “No that was the only time, but it really pissed me off and I
still am kinda ma at that jerk. But everyone else was real supportive and I was
flying with a bunch of guys who had been in some serious firefights and been
ambushed and attacked a whole bunch of times. That one guy almost got his ass
kicked by about 30 hard ass, salty dogs. Hey let’s change the subject. You want
me to talk about how bad it was there and I got to get it off my chest.”

CFTM-- “My first question is whether you are going to be able to get any
counseling if you need it? I have been told by several guys that it has been cut
off for all reservists. Have you been offered any therapy services or PTSD
counseling?”

Trooper 1-- “Well I am in a real weird situation because I am still
considered active duty even though I am home right now. I am only going to be
here for a month or so and I think I will either be training guys about to go
over, or else return to Iraq or Afghanistan myself. I have tons of combat
experience and training and there is a shortage of cadre that can train the
reservists that have just been reactivated. Some of those units haven’t been
fully activated since Desert Storm.”

“I think I can be of better use to those guys than going back over to fight
again. I had my share of that and I don’t know if I can handle it again. I lost
it a couple times and if it hadn’t been for my bro who gave me some good
tranquilizers I might have lost it completely. I want to make sure the new
reserves are ready for the fight and know exactly what they are in for.”

CFTM-- “Not to put to much stress on it, but do you think you will need
counseling or therapy? I think it is important for Americans to know just how
bad it is mentally for the troops.”

Trooper 1-- “Yeah I think I will need some kind of PTSD support or seasons.
I am having terrible nightmares and I have flashbacks when I hear loud noises,
and if a car back fires or I hear a firecracker, I am down on the ground in
combat cover ready to shoot a rifle I still think I am carrying. I was in combat
situations for over two years without any break except for a two week R and R at
Christmas. I am not ready to be back stateside, but here I am.”

“There are going to be a lot of guys coming back home who are used to being
on high alert 24-7. It is hard to stand down after being shot at everyday for
months on end. There really is no moment in Iraq where there is a relaxation
time. It is impossible to get even an hours time to be stress free. You always
have to be on alert or guard mount because the Iraqis will attack you when you
least expect it.”

“Hell they caught us with our pants down a few times at first, but we got
wise to that and never let our guard down after the first few ambushes and
rocket attacks. Even on full alert they still killed a bunch of us and wounded a
god awful number of our soldiers.”

CFTM-- “How many guys did you lose in Iraq and how many did you have wounded
and evacuated? Also did you ever here about the wounded dying after they were
airlifted to Germany or a hospital ship? The reason I ask is that an officer
with a MASH unit said if the soldier died outside of Iraq they weren’t counting
it as a combat death. I heard that is one way they are keeping the combat death
count down and hiding some battle deaths after they are airlifted.”

Trooper 1-- “God man you really ask the painful questions don’t you. If I
didn’t know you were doing this to expose the real truth and try to bring us
home, I would have to kick your ass for making me feel the hurt all over again.”

“Man we lost so many I started losing track. I didn’t want to think about it
after a while and I pushed it out of my mind when I didn’t have to make out
reports or change our strength maintenance figures. We lost over 300 guys to
death or severe injury when I was there, and that is only the ones I know about.
There were times when I was out on some scout missions and we lost guys from the
main battle group and the reports would be done by the time I got back to the
unit.”

“I was there when my best friend got it though. I almost wish I had been out
on a patrol or scout mission because I wouldn’t have had to hold his head up
while he coughed up his own guts. He took three 7.62s(AK-47 rounds) to the
abdomen and it took him a long time to die. It felt like hours, but it was
probably only ten or fifteen minutes at the most. It just felt like an eternity
while he fought for his life. We couldn’t get a dust off (evac chopper) vectored
in in enough time, he died about a minute before the chopper landed. That almost
blew my mind right out. It took me a week before I could stop shaking and
freezing up.”

“I had been in the same unit as him from the beginning of my first permanent
party assignment. I had served in different units for a while, but we ended up
in the same brigade in Afghanistan. He was in another company as a platoon
sergeant and we fought side by side across Afghanistan and Iraq. I can’t believe
he caught it like that. I mean this war is really meaningless and all about oil.
So my best friend bought it for some rich guy like Dick Cheney or George Shultz!”

(George Shultz is the former President of Bechtel Corp,. and still a serving
board member, and former U.S. Secretary of State under Ronald Reagan. For some
real dirt on Bechtel’s connections to the Pentagon and State Department check
this out-- Bechtel's Friends in High Places
http://www.corpwatch.org/issues/PID.jsp?articleid=6548 )

“I know it is supposed to be our duty to fight for this country and die if
necessary, but this Iraq war is total bullshit. A bunch of Bush’s buddies, and
even Bush himself are getting rich as hell off of us dying and getting hurt. I
could see the reasons we are in Afghanistan and I did my duty there, but this is
completely different. Iraq is not safer or any freer under our rule. The people
hate us and want us to get the fu.k out of their country and leave them alone.”

“For every one of us that dies for no reason the whole country ought to get
out and protest and riot. That is one thing I’ve seen the Iraqis do very well.
When we kill some of their people they come out by the thousands and make it
known that they are pissed and won’t tolerate it any more.”

“That is what all the American people need to do. Every time the Pentagon
gets one of us killed they need to riot and protest in the streets. If they did
that maybe Rumsfeld and those assholes like Wolfowitz and Perle would think
twice about letting another one of our troops die in combat. Maybe they would
bring us home. Until the American people stand up and say ‘NO MORE DEAD
SOLDIERS!’ they will keep butchering us like sheep!”

CFTM-- “Okay, well I guess that answers any questions I was going to ask
about how you feel about the current regime lining their pockets at the expense
of our troops lives. One thing I was going to ask is how you feel about the fact
that there is only one US Senator or Congressman that has a son or daughter
serving in Iraq or Afghanistan?”

Trooper 1-- “I think every godda.. senator’s son or daughter that is serving
military age ought to be forced to go over to Iraq and serve in a front-line
unit. If the leaders of America are going to send us over to die for oil and a
bunch of fat cats to profit from our deaths, then they should send their own
fu..in sons and daughters. No one should be able to get their kid an exemption
or enable their child to get out of doing what they say is our duty.”

“If it’s our duty to die in Iraq ,Afghanistan, or any where there is a
battle against US forces, then their children have a duty to serve and die too.
I don’t think it’s fair that none of the sliver spoon in mouth fu..in little
spoiled brats are dying for this country. Everyone of the guys I was with came
form either a poor or middle class working background. None of them had the
colleges and trust funds given to them. I don’t think a lot of our guys would be
serving right now except for the lack of any other future that looked brighter.”

“Most of them got sucked in when they were in high school and knew they
couldn’t afford to pay for college or just didn’t want to go. Some guys knew
they weren’t smart enough to go to college, but the Army can always find a place
for you.”

CFTM-- “You had told me about an incident where you were told to fire on
Iraqi protesters who were throwing rocks at your unit during a hug
demonstration. Can you give me some details about that and who ordered you to
fire into the crowd?”

Trooper 1-- “ I will talk about this a little bit, but I don’t really want
to. There was more than one time we were told to fire into a crowd of protesters
or during demonstrations. I will tell you about the one time I talked about
already and you can make it out any way you want. I just watched a show about
something like we went through, I think it was Frontline(it was Frontline) and
really got the picture of how bad it must have been for the Iraqis that have
been fired on during protests.”

“I don’t want to go into to much detail about this because it is still being
investigated by the Army. The situation briefly was that there was a large crowd
of demonstrators gathered to protest an incident from the day before when
another unit had shot into a crowd of protesters. There had been about 20 killed
the day before, but we never heard a total body count just some reasonably
accurate sounding numbers.”

“We were on the ground on one side of a large square where the main body of
the protesters had gathered. They were yelling and screaming at one of the
appointed Iraqi council members and getting very out of control. They were mad
at the fact the council had not denounced the Americans and told them to leave
Iraq. It was getting very ugly and I was spit on and struck in the helmet and
about the head and shoulders by a small group of women. Let me emphasize that
again, we were being attacked by a group of women and maybe three or four men.”

“As far as I could see they had no firearms or bombs. They did have rocks
and pieces of paving stones and asphalt. As the crowd got more and more
outraged, more US troops started arriving , which seemed to anger the civilians
even more. We were a real living symbol of all their hurts and injuries that had
been inflicted on them by our bombs ,missiles, tanks, artillery, and guns. For
the first time since the war started they had a target for all their hate and
anger right there in front of them. I don’t know who started the rock throwing
but after the first one was thrown the whole crowd started throwing their rocks
and whatever scraps and trash they could find in the vicinity.”

“I got hit by several rocks in the face and head and then the rest of my
body was hit a bunch of times. As far as I could tell the first gunshot was from
an American M-16. I know the sound of our rifles very well and I can tell the
sound even in a full scale firefight so the sound of one shot was very clear to
me. I know it was not an AK-47 or 74. There is no way it could have been a
7.62mm round. They have a much lower sound and the Kalashnikov rifles make a
distinctive clack as they are fired.”

“I have heard those rifles fired so many times I know the sound in my sleep.
It was one of our guys that got nervous and cranked off a round. After the first
shot we heard someone screaming on the radio to open fire. A few of our guys
started firing and then most of the rest of us started shooting. At some point
in the confusion I heard an AK open up and then another one. It didn’t sound
close, but we couldn’t really tell.”

“That is all the details I really feel right giving you. I know one thing
though. The commanders later claimed we were fired on from the crowd. That’s
bullshit and a bunch of us know it. It started with a bunch of angry women and
some men throwing rocks, and it ended with at least 15 dead and over 30 wounded.
I saw a small girl laying on the ground with a hole in her head and some more
wounds in her back and side. She did not have anything to do with the crowd, she
was down the street trying to find food or something.”

“That’s all I’ll give you on that. I don’t want to get in any trouble or
have anyone think I helped kill innocent people.”

CFTM-- “Well I think I got enough for this interview. I really want to thank
you for doing this, I know how much they have tried to stop you from speaking
out. I know about the threats and intimidations they have used to keep you guys
quiet.”

“ Anything else you want to say as a final statement to America?”

Trooper 1-- “Yeah I really want to make sure they don’t think I am
unpatriotic or a traitor. I did this because of how bad it is over there. We are
getting slaughtered and wasted for nothing. If there was a real reason to be
over there anymore I would go right back. There is no reason right now, they say
we are rebuilding Iraq, but I didn’t see it.”

“Every time I hear Bush or Rumsfeld or anyone else like Paul Bremer talk
about all the progress we have made I picture all the Iraqi kids going hungry.
They would mob our convoys trying to get our M.R.E.s or the emergency relief
food packs we carry for them. Iraq is going to hell and all the little kids are
starving and dying from their injuries they got during the war.”

“There is not enough medicine or antibiotics to keep them form getting
gangrene or stop the diarrhea they get from bad water. Most of the people are
drinking sewage or water contaminated with shit or oil. Months later and they
still haven’t fixed the water supply or helped them get parts to fix the pumps.
I saw kids dying everyday because they had the shits so bad they wasted away to
nothing.”

“My best friend is dead and so are a whole bunch of my friends and fellow
soldiers. I just want to say one more thing to America.”

“Get us the fu.. out of Iraq! Don’t let another one of us die or get
injured. How many disabled vets and dead fathers and mothers do you want on your
conscience? How much more blood can you get on your hands George Bush??? How
many more Iraqis do we have to kill and then live with their blood on our hands?”

“Bring us home now!!! Tell your Senators to stop giving Bush money for this
carnage. If you demand that we come home they will have to listen. At least I
hope they would, they are supposed to have our best interest at heart!”

“Fuck you George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, Paul
Wolfowitz, Paul Bremer, and all then rest of you sorry assholes! Why don’t you
come fight this war if you think it’s right?”

---------------------------

ZNet -- Iraq

A Saddam Chronology
by Stephen R. Shalom

December 15, 2003

Saddam Hussein is one of the world's great monsters. Nothing would
be more welcome than to have him put on trial, a trial which could
offer Iraqis and the world an honest accounting of his many crimes.
However, as so often happens, when a trial is organized by those
who are themselves guilty of serious crimes, truth is not the goal.
Instead the historical record is falsified to make the one monster
seem uniquely blameworthy and the ones running the show above
criticism.

We saw this pattern in the Tokyo trials following World War II,
where the crimes of Japanese officials were documented in gruesome
detail (except for the biological warfare programs, which
Washington wanted to use for itself, and except for the involvement
of the emperor, who was to serve U.S. purposes during the
occupation), while the crimes of the victors, such as the horrific
fire-bombing raids and the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
were disregarded. Likewise, Panamanian ruler Manual Noriega was a
thug who certainly belonged in the dock. But when the U.S. military
invaded Panama in violation of international law and seized him for
trial in the United States, there was no intention by the
kidnappers that the trial be a forum for revealing the long-time
ties between Noriega and the U.S. government, and particularly
between Noriega and former CIA director George H. W. Bush.

It is a matter of principle in Washington that Americans not be
held to the same international standards as others. Thus, the U.S.
refuses to endorse the International Criminal Court and demands
that its allies give up their right to invoke the jurisdiction of
the court when U.S. citizens are involved. But those of us who
truly care about justice ought to demand that Saddam Hussein be
tried before a court that is in no way subject to U.S. control or
manipulation. Only in that way can the real truth come out.

Already, however, much of the media is falling into line in framing
the crimes of Saddam Hussein. For example, the Washington Post
website offered a summary of "Events in the Life of Saddam Hussein"
from the Associated Press. But the chronology was seriously
incomplete. Below is that chronology, corrected to include --
indented and in brackets -- some of the most serious omissions.

Sunday, December 14, 2003; 8:34 AM

A glance at the life of former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein:

April 28, 1937 -- Born in village near desert town of Tikrit, north
of Baghdad.

1957 -- Joins underground Baath Socialist Party.

1958 -- Arrested for killing his brother-in-law, a Communist,
spends six months in prison.

Oct. 7, 1959 -- On Baath assassination team that ambushes Iraqi
strongman Gen. Abdel-Karim Kassem in Baghdad, wounding him. Saddam,
wounded in leg, flees to Syria then Egypt.

[This was not the only attempt to assassinate Kassem. In April
1960, the CIA approved using a poisoned handkerchief to kill
Kassem. The "handkerchief was duly dispatched to Kassem, but
whether or not it ever reached him, it certainly did not kill him."
(Thomas Powers, "The Man Who Kept the Secrets: Richard Helms and the
CIA", New York: Knopf, 1979, p. 130.)]

Feb. 8, 1963 -- Returns from Egypt after Baath takes part in coup
that overthrows and kills Kassem. Baath ousted by military in
November.

[The coup was backed by the CIA.

"As its instrument the C.I.A. had chosen the authoritarian and
anti-Communist Baath Party, in 1963 still a relatively small
political faction influential in the Iraqi Army. According to the
former Baathist leader Hani Fkaiki, among party members colluding
with the C.I.A. in 1962 and 1963 was Saddam Hussein....

"According to Western scholars, as well as Iraqi refugees and a
British human rights organization, the 1963 coup was accompanied by
a bloodbath. Using lists of suspected Communists and other leftists
provided by the C.I.A., the Baathists systematically murdered
untold numbers of Iraq's educated elite -- killings in which Saddam
Hussein himself is said to have participated. No one knows the
exact toll, but accounts agree that the victims included hundreds
of doctors, teachers, technicians, lawyers and other professionals
as well as military and political figures." (Roger Morris, "A
Tyrant 40 Years in the Making," New York Times, March 14, 2003, p.
A29.)]

July 17, 1968 -- Baathists and army officers overthrow regime.

["Again, this coup, amid more factional violence, came with C.I.A.
backing. Serving on the staff of the National Security Council
under Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon in the late 1960's, I often
heard C.I.A. officers -- including Archibald Roosevelt, grandson of
Theodore Roosevelt and a ranking C.I.A. official for the Near East
and Africa at the time -- speak openly about their close relations
with the Iraqi Baathists." (Morris, "A Tyrant 40 Years in the
Making," p. A29.)]

July 30, 1968 -- Takes charge of internal security after Baath
ousts erstwhile allies and authority passes to Revolutionary
Command Council under Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr, Saddam's cousin.

[From 1973-75, the United States, Iran, and Israel supported a
Kurdish insurgency in Iraq. Documents examined by the U.S. House
Select Committee on Intelligence "clearly show that the President,
Dr. Kissinger and the [Shah] hoped that our clients [the Kurds]
would not prevail. They preferred instead that the insurgents
simply continue a level of hostilities sufficient to sap [Iraqi]
resources. This policy was not imparted to our clients, who were
encouraged to continue fighting. Even in the context of covert
action, ours was a cynical enterprise." Then, in 1975, the Shah and
Saddam Hussein of Iraq signed an agreement giving Iran territorial
concessions in return for Iran's closing its border to Kurdish
guerrillas. Teheran and Washington promptly cut off their aid to
the Kurds and, while Iraq massacred the rebels, the United States
refused them asylum. Kissinger justified this U.S. policy in closed
testimony: "Covert action should not be confused with missionary
work." (U.S. House of Representatives, Select Committee on
Intelligence, 19 Jan. 1976 [Pike Report] in Village Voice, 16 Feb.
1976, pp. 85, 87n465, 88n471. The Pike Report attributes the last
quote only to a "senior official"; William Safire, "Safire's
Washington", New York: Times Books, 1980, p. 333, identifies the
official as Kissinger.)]

July 16, 1979 -- Takes over as president from al-Bakr, launches
massive purge of Baath.

[In the late 1970s, Saddam also purged the Iraqi Communist Party
and other oppositionists. (Marion Farouk-Sluglett and Peter
Sluglett, "Iraq Since 1958", London: I. B. Tauris, 1990, pp. 182-87)
"We see no fundamental incompatibility of interests between the
United States and Iraq," declared U.S. National Security adviser
Zbigniew Brzezinski in April 1980. (Quoted in Barry Rubin, "The
United States and Iraq: From Appeasement to War," in "Iraq's Road to
War", ed. Amatzia Baram and Barry Rubin, New York: St. Martin's
1993, p. 256.)]

Sept. 22, 1980 -- Sends forces into Iran; war last eight years.

[When Iraq invaded Iran, the United Nations Security Council waited
four days before holding a meeting. On September 28, it passed
Resolution 479 calling for an end to the fighting, but which
significantly did not condemn (nor even mention) the Iraqi
aggression and did not demand a return to internationally
recognized boundaries. As Ralph King, who has studied the UN
response in detail, concluded, "The Council more or less
deliberately ignored Iraq's actions in September 1980." The U.S.
delegate noted that Iran, which had itself violated Security
Council resolutions on the U.S. embassy hostages, could hardly
complain about the Council's lackluster response. (R.P.H. King,
"The United Nations and the Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1986,"
in "The United Nations and the Iran-Iraq War", ed. Brian
Urquhart and Gary Sick, New York: Ford Foundation, August 1987.)

Despite the fact that Iraq had been the aggressor in this war and
that Iraq was the first to use chemical weapons, the first to
launch air attacks on cities, and the initiator of the tanker war,
the United States tilted toward Iraq. The U.S. removed Iraq from
its list of terrorist states in 1982, sent Donald Rumsfeld to
Baghdad as Reagan's envoy to meet with Saddam Hussein in 1983 and
1984 to discuss economic cooperation, re-established diplomatic
relations in November 1984, made available extensive loans and
subsidies, provided intelligence information, encouraged its allies
to arm Iraq, and engaged in military actions in the Persian Gulf
against Iran. The United States also provided dual-use equipment
that it knew Iraq was using for military purposes. (See Joyce
Battle, ed., "Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein: The U.S. Tilts
toward Iraq, 1980-1984," National Security Archive Electronic
Briefing Book No. 82, Feb. 25, 2003,
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/.)]

March 28, 1988 -- Uses chemical weapons against Kurdish town of
Halabja, killing estimated 5,000 civilians.

[From Iraq's first use of chemical weapons in 1983, the U.S. took a
very restrained view. When the evidence of Iraqi use of these
weapons could no longer be denied, the U.S. issued a mild
condemnation, but made clear that this would have no effect on
commercial or diplomatic relations between the United States and
Iraq. Iran asked the Security Council to condemn Iraq's chemical
weapons use, but the U.S. delegate to the U.N. was instructed to
try to prevent a resolution from coming to a vote, or else to
abstain. An Iraqi official told the U.S. that Iraq strongly
preferred a Security Council presidential statement to a resolution
and did not want any specific country identified as responsible for
chemical weapons use. On March 30, 1984, the Security Council
issued a presidential statement condemning the use of chemical
weapons, without naming Iraq as the offending party. (Battle,
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/.)

At the same time that the U.S. government had knowledge that the
Iraqi military was using chemical weapons, it was providing
intelligence and planning assistance to the Iraqi armed forces.
(Patrick Tyler, "Officers Say U.S. Aided Iraq In War Despite Use Of
Gas," New York Times, Aug. 18, 2002, p. 1.)

When Iraq used chemical weapons in March 1988 against Halabja,
there was no condemnation from Washington. (Dilip Hiro, "When US
turned a blind eye to poison gas," The Observer, September 1, 2002,
p. 17.) "In September 1988, the House of Representatives voted 388
to 16 in favor of economic sanctions against Iraq, but the White
House succeeded in having the Senate water down the proposal. In
exchange for Export-Import Bank credits, Iraq merely had to promise
not to use chemical weapons again, with agricultural credits
exempted even from this limited requirement." (Rubin, "The United
States and Iraq: From Appeasement to War," p. 261.)]

Aug. 2, 1990 -- Invades Kuwait.

[The chronology omits one of Saddam Hussein's most egregious
atrocities, his Anfal campaign against the Kurds from 1987-89, in
which at least 50,000 and possibly 100,000 Kurds were
systematically slaughtered. (Middle East Watch, "Genocide in Iraq:
The Anfal Campaign Against the Kurds", New York: Human Rights Watch,
1993.)

The response of the new Bush administration was to increase Iraq's
commodity credits from half a billion to a billion dollars, making
it the second largest user of the credit program in the world. As
late as April 1990, the administration was opposing sanctions
against Iraq ("They would hurt U.S. exporters and worsen our trade
deficit," said the State Department). (Guy Gugliotta, Charles R.
Babcock, and Benjamin Weiser, "At War, Iraq Courted U.S. Into
Economic Embrace," Washington Post, Sept. 16, 1990, p. A1.) The
administration also blocked efforts to cut back high-tech exports
to Iraq with obvious military applications. (Douglas Frantz and
Murray Waas, "Bush insisted on aiding Iraq until war's onset,"
Chicago Sun-Times, Feb. 23, 1992, p. 17.) And the United States was
providing intelligence data to Iraq until three months before the
invasion. (Murray Waas, Douglas Frantz, "U.S. shared intelligence
with Iraq until 3 months before invasion of Kuwait," Houston
Chronicle, March 10, 1992, p. A6.)]

Jan. 17, 1991 -- Attacked by U.S.-led coalition; Kuwait liberated
in a month.

[As part of the U.S.-led attack, the civilian infrastructure of
Iraq was intentionally targeted (Barton Gellman, "Allied Air War
Struck Broadly in Iraq; Officials Acknowledge Strategy Went Beyond
Purely Military Targets," Washington Post, 23 June 1991, p. A1;
Thomas J. Nagy, "The Secret Behind the Sanctions," Progressive,
Sept. 2001), which together with more than a decade of economic
sanctions would lead to hundreds of thousands of excess deaths.
(See Richard Garfield, "Morbidity and Mortality Among Iraqi
Children From 1990 through 1998: Assessing the Impact of the Gulf
War and Economic Sanctions," March 1999,
http://www.fourthfreedom.org/php/t-si-index.php?hinc=garf-index.hin
c.)]

March, 1991 -- Crushes Shiite revolt in south and Kurd revolt in
north.

[After urging Iraqis to rise up against Saddam Hussein, the U.S.
denied the rebels access to captured Iraqi weapons and allowed
Saddam Hussein to use his helicopters to slaughter the insurgents
as U.S. aircraft circled overhead. (Andrew Cockburn and Patrick
Cockburn, "Out of the Ashes: The Resurrection of Saddam Hussein", New
York: Harperperennial. 1999, chap. 1)]

April 17, 1991 -- Complying with U.N. Resolution 687, starts
providing information on weapons of mass destruction, but accused
of cheating.

Feb. 20, 1996 -- Orders killing of two sons-in-law who in 1995
defected to Jordan and had just returned to Baghdad after receiving
guarantees of safety.

Dec. 16, 1998 -- Weapons inspectors withdrawn from Iraq. Hours
later, four days of U.S.-British air and missile strikes begin as
punishment for lack of cooperation.

[The bombing was conducted without Security Council approval and
without consultations with allies. The withdrawal of the inspectors
was ordered by Richard Butler, the head of UNSCOM. "France was also
annoyed with Washington for getting Mr. Butler to pull out his
inspectors from Iraq without discussion with the Security Council."
U.S. Secretary of State "Albright did not speak with Secretary
General Kofi Annan at the United Nations, officials said. Mr. Annan
issued a personal statement, calling this 'a sad day' for the world
and 'me personally,' because of his failure to avert the use of
force." (Steven Erlanger, "U.S. Decision to Act Fast, and Then
Search for Support, Angers Some Allies," New York Times, Dec. 17,
1998, p. A14.)]

Nov. 8, 2002 -- Threatened with "serious consequences" if he does
not disarm in U.N. Security Council resolution.

Nov. 27, 2002 -- Allows U.N. experts to begin work in Iraq for
first time since 1998.

Dec. 7, 2002 -- Delivers to United Nations declaration denying Iraq
has weapons of mass destruction; later, United States says
declaration is untruthful and United Nations says it is incomplete.

March 1, 2003 -- United Arab Emirates, at an Arab League summit,
becomes first Arab nation to propose publicly that Saddam step
down.

March 7 -- United States, Britain and Spain propose ordering Saddam
to give up banned weapons by March 17 or face war; other nations
led by France on polarized U.N. Security Council oppose any new
resolution that would authorize military action.

March 17 -- United States, Britain and Spain declare time for
diplomacy over, withdraw proposed resolution. President Bush gives
Saddam 48 hours to leave Iraq.

[Actually, U.S. officials made clear that U.S. troops would enter
Iraq whether or not Saddam and his sons left the country. (Michael
R. Gordon, "Allies Will Move In, Even if Saddam Hussein Moves Out,"
New York Times, March 18, 2003, p. A16.)]

March 18 -- Iraq's leadership rejects Bush's ultimatum.

["On the eve of war, Iraq publicly offered unlimited access for
American and British weapons hunters." (David Rennie, "Saddam
'offered Bush a huge oil deal to avert war'," Daily Telegraph
[London], Nov. 7, 2003, p. 17) And privately Iraq went well beyond
this. In several back-channel contacts with U.S. officials, Iraq
offered the U.S. "direct U.S. involvement on the ground in
disarming Iraq," oil concessions, the turn-over of a wanted
terrorist, cooperation on the Israeli-Palestinian peace-process,
and even internationally-supervised elections within two years.
(James Risen, "Iraq Said to Have Tried to Reach Last-Minute Deal to
Avert War," New York Times, Nov. 6, 2003, p. A1) One doesn't know
where these offers may have led, since they were rejected by the
U.S.: "A US intelligence source insisted that the decision not to
negotiate came from the White House, which was demanding complete
surrender. According to an Arab source, [a U.S. intermediary] sent
a Saudi official a set of requirements he believed Iraq would have
to fulfill. Those demands included Saddam's abdication and
departure, first to a US military base for interrogation and then
into supervised exile, a surrender of Iraqi troops, and the
admission that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction." (Julian
Borger, Brian Whitaker, and Vikram Dodd, "Saddam's desperate offers
to stave off war," Guardian, Nov. 7, 2003, p. 3.)]

March 20 -- U.S. forces open war with military strike on Dora
Farms, a target south of Baghdad where Saddam and his sons are said
to be. Saddam appears on Iraqi television later in the day.

April 4 -- Iraqi television shows video of Saddam walking a Baghdad
street.

April 7 -- U.S. warplanes bomb a section of the Mansour district in
Baghdad where Saddam and his sons were said to be meeting.

April 9 -- Jubilant crowds greet U.S. troops in Baghdad, go on
looting rampages, topple 40-foot statue of Saddam.

July 22 -- Saddam's sons, Qusai and Odai, killed in gunbattle with
U.S. troops. American forces then raid the northern city of Mosul
and later say they missed Saddam "by a matter of hours."

July 27 -- U.S. troops raid three farms in Tikrit. Again, officials
later say they missed Saddam by 24 hours.

July 31 -- Two of Saddam's daughters, Raghad and Rana, and their
nine children are given asylum by Jordan's King Abdullah II.

[That they would need asylum follows from the U.S. policy of
detaining family members of those they are seeking, in violation of
elementary standards of justice. ("The arrest of close relatives of
fugitive regime members has been used by US forces in the past both
as a way to gather intelligence -- through interrogation -- and to
put emotional pressure on the hunted men to surrender." Colin
Nickerson, "US Troops Detain Wife, Daughter Of Key Hussein Aide
Ex-Deputy Suspected Of Plotting Attacks In Iraqi Insurgency,"
Boston Globe, Nov. 27, 2003, p. A40.)]

Sept. 5 -- Maj. Gen. Ray Odierno of the 4th Infantry Division says
his troops have captured several of Saddam's former bodyguards in
the Tikrit area in the past month and may be closing in on the
deposed Iraqi dictator.

Nov. 16 -- The last of nine tapes attributed to Saddam Hussein
since he was removed from power is released. It tells Iraqis to
step up their resistance to the U.S.-led occupation, saying the
United States and its allies misjudged the difficulty of occupying
Iraq.

[It didn't take a genius to note that "the United States and its
allies misjudged the difficulty of occupying Iraq."]

Dec. 13 -- Saddam is captured at 8:30 p.m. in the town of Adwar, 10
miles south of Tikrit. He is hiding in a specially prepared "spider
hole."

-----------------------------------

[Agathena]

Cleopatra wrote:

> Steven Litvintchouk <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message news:<AEVKb.31091$IM3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
>

> Great observation, Steven. When leftists start in with this Hitler and

> tyranny business the second a republican is elected president, they
> not only trivialize real evil but debase the language. Most of these
> twits have absolutely no conception of what real evil is, where people

> are actually jailed, beaten, tortured and killed en masse, so that
> when the real thing does come along they'll be bereft of language

> adequate to the task of describing what is REALLY going on. Like the

> little boy who cried wolf once too often, they'll have not a shred of
> credibility left and will be devoured by *real* wolves when those

> events come to pass. *Cleopatra*

Don't forget while self-righeous sermonizing,
that 'evil' came into being with the Judaic/Christian era.
The pagans would have none of it and "the ancient Greeks did
not trouble themselves much about evil."

Today,
God is absent.
Nature is indifferent.
AND evil is as man made as
the motor car.

_______________________________________

paraphrased from William H. Gass

"ON EVIL
The ragged core of a sweet apple"

Review of
"Evil in Modern Thought:
An Alternative History of Philosophy"
by Susan Neiman

Harper's Jan.04

[Fan]

> Perhaps you'd like to cite the link where the ADL criticizes Saddam/Hitler
> comparisons.
>

Don't hold your breath. Republicans like to scurry into the shadows and
hide when they have no rebuttal.

[Steven Litvintchouk]

Cleopatra wrote:

> Steven Litvintchouk <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message news:<AEVKb.31091$IM3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
>

> Great observation, Steven. When leftists start in with this Hitler and
> tyranny business the second a republican is elected president, they
> not only trivialize real evil but debase the language. Most of these
> twits have absolutely no conception of what real evil is, where people

> are actually jailed, beaten, tortured and killed en masse, ....

It's actually worse than that, I'm afraid. They don't believe in the
philosophical/religious concept of absolute evil. The left-wing
philosophy is to believe in world-historical economic and social forces.
Their reaction to 9-11 was not to regard it as an abomination but to
try to find rationalizations for it.

Whenever I've brought up things like 9-11 and the Gulag, versus the
*relatively* mild reaction the U.S. had to 9-11, the reaction I get from
lefties is that there are no absolutes, only shades of gray. But I
point out to them that even so, certain shades of gray are so different
in brightness that one can still make a qualitative distinction. After
all, how many lefties would rather paint the rooms of their house
charcoal gray rather than off-white?

-- Steven L.

[Don W. McCollough]

Steven Litvintchouk <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message news:<AEVKb.31091$IM3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

So now even making analogies which contain indirect references to the
historical plight of jew amounts to a form of anti-semitism and needs
to be censured. Jews are perhaps the biggest whiners on the face of
the earth.
Meanwhile, say anything remotely negative about them, aka Pat
Buchanon, and they demonize your character because, of course, they
are beyond reproach.

Fuck the ADL. They are themselves Racist.

[fair_and_balanced_hyco-limbaugh_fart_detector]

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 15:32:48 GMT, Steven Litvintchouk
<sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:

who cares what the ADL thinks?

Comparing Bush's agression to Hitler's is accurate.

Comparing Hitler's moustache to Charlie Chaplin's is accurate.

Neither of these trivialized killing Jews. The argument is ludicrous.

[fair_and_balanced_hyco-limbaugh_fart_detector]

On 7 Jan 2004 11:18:13 -0800, Rock_...@yahoo.com (Cleopatra) wrote:

>Steven Litvintchouk <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message news:<AEVKb.31091$IM3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

>Great observation, Steven. When leftists start in with this Hitler and
>tyranny business the second a republican is elected president, they
>not only trivialize real evil but debase the language. Most of these
>twits have absolutely no conception of what real evil is, where people

>are actually jailed, beaten, tortured and killed en masse, so that
>when the real thing does come along they'll be bereft of language
>adequate to the task of describing what is REALLY going on. Like the
>little boy who cried wolf once too often, they'll have not a shred of
>credibility left and will be devoured by *real* wolves when those
>events come to pass. *Cleopatra*

There's some conservatives named "Hitlery" and "KKKlinton" who might
benefit from your lecture, as well as those who claim Hitler was a
liberal, as well as those who claim that the Democratic Party is the
same as Stalin.

[Tempest]

"Don W. McCollough" wrote:
>
> Steven Litvintchouk <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message news:<AEVKb.31091$IM3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> > Tazmanian Devil wrote:
> >
> > > 'My Moveon Ad Ticked Off The RNC'
> > >
> > > Todd Mattson writes, "I think my Moveon.org ad was one of them that
> > > ticked off the RNC and boy does that make my day.
> >
> > It also ticked off a lot of Jews including the Anti-Defamation League,
> > because as they correctly pointed out, comparing Bush to Hitler doesn't
> > revile Bush so much as it ends up trivializing what Hitler was really
> > like and what Hitler really did.

Hitler didn't start out by killing Jews.

He worked his way up to it.

Just like Bush.

> So now even making analogies which contain indirect references to the
> historical plight of jew amounts to a form of anti-semitism and needs
> to be censured. Jews are perhaps the biggest whiners on the face of
> the earth.
> Meanwhile, say anything remotely negative about them, aka Pat
> Buchanon, and they demonize your character because, of course, they
> are beyond reproach.
>
> Fuck the ADL. They are themselves Racist.
>
>
> > I wonder if that made his day too?
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Steven L.

--
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a
revolutionary act.
- George Orwell

[Mr. N]

"Steven Litvintchouk" <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message

news:a51Lb.32400$IM3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...

> It's actually worse than that, I'm afraid. They don't believe in the
> philosophical/religious concept of absolute evil.

Sure we do.

We saw it in action on 9/11 perpetrated by the Saudi mass murderers, and
we've seen it every day since in action in the White House.

--
-My Real Name

[Ashland Henderson]

Steven Litvintchouk <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message news:<a51Lb.32400$IM3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

> Cleopatra wrote:
>
> > Steven Litvintchouk <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message news:<AEVKb.31091$IM3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> >
> >>Tazmanian Devil wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>'My Moveon Ad Ticked Off The RNC'
> >>>
> >>>Todd Mattson writes, "I think my Moveon.org ad was one of them that
> >>>ticked off the RNC and boy does that make my day.
> >>
> >>It also ticked off a lot of Jews including the Anti-Defamation League,
> >>because as they correctly pointed out, comparing Bush to Hitler doesn't
> >>revile Bush so much as it ends up trivializing what Hitler was really
> >>like and what Hitler really did.
> >>
> >>I wonder if that made his day too?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-- Steven L.
> >
> >
> > Great observation, Steven. When leftists start in with this Hitler and
> > tyranny business the second a republican is elected president, they
> > not only trivialize real evil but debase the language. Most of these
> > twits have absolutely no conception of what real evil is, where people
> > are actually jailed, beaten, tortured and killed en masse, ....
>
> It's actually worse than that, I'm afraid. They don't believe in the
> philosophical/religious concept of absolute evil. The left-wing
> philosophy is to believe in world-historical economic and social forces.
> Their reaction to 9-11 was not to regard it as an abomination but to
> try to find rationalizations for it.

Now that's an interesting piece of pure crap. But then I doubt that you
are smart enough to know the difference between finding out why something
happened so as to help prevent it as opposed to rationalizing something.

> Whenever I've brought up things like 9-11 and the Gulag, versus the
> *relatively* mild reaction the U.S. had to 9-11, the reaction I get from
> lefties is that there are no absolutes, only shades of gray. But I
> point out to them that even so, certain shades of gray are so different
> in brightness that one can still make a qualitative distinction. After
> all, how many lefties would rather paint the rooms of their house
> charcoal gray rather than off-white?

Sheesh. You are certainly modifiying the opinions I have seen here through
some pretty strong filters. But then I expected nothing else of you.

[Agathena]

Mr. N wrote:

> "Steven Litvintchouk" <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
> news:a51Lb.32400$IM3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>
>>It's actually worse than that, I'm afraid. They don't believe in the
>>philosophical/religious concept of absolute evil.

God is absent.
Nature is indifferent.
And evil is as man-made
as the motor car.
(from William H. Gass)

"Evil" is a construct of Judaic/Christian mono-theistic
religion. Can it be an absolute when only half the world
accepts it?

[George]

Fuck Todd Mattson. Fuck YOU.

"It serves to diminish the suffering of the victims of the Holocaust," said
Cominsky. "There's no way you can compare anything Bush has done with a
calculated plan to slaughter 6 million Jews. ... At some point it just
cheapens the level of political discourse. People begin to be desensitized
to the pain and anguish of the Holocaust." "

[Houston Chronicle Editorial, "BEYOND THE PALE: Hitler has no place in U.S.
political discourse," 1/6/2004,
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/editorial/2339171]

"Tazmanian Devil" <my...@biteme.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a65dcdc1...@news.vgernet.net...

[George]

"Cleopatra" <Rock_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d81ac9f.04010...@posting.google.com...

> Steven Litvintchouk <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message

news:<AEVKb.31091$IM3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

> Great observation, Steven. When leftists start in with this Hitler and
> tyranny business the second a republican is elected president, they
> not only trivialize real evil but debase the language. Most of these
> twits have absolutely no conception of what real evil is, where people

> are actually jailed, beaten, tortured and killed en masse, so that
> when the real thing does come along they'll be bereft of language
> adequate to the task of describing what is REALLY going on. Like the
> little boy who cried wolf once too often, they'll have not a shred of
> credibility left and will be devoured by *real* wolves when those
> events come to pass. *Cleopatra*

"This is something that has baffled me for years. How people can shrug at
the over 100 million killed by Communism in the 20th century (in China,
Cambodia, Russia and elsewhere) and still think the worst thing you can call
someone is a "Nazi" is an utter mystery."

[Toren Smitn, "The Safety Valve: The invisible dead," 8/28/2003,
http://www.thesafetyvalve.com/archives/000372.html]

This ugly, evil comparison of Bush to Hitler is going to be remembered by
Americans in November. I believe that this has the potential to ignite
violence down the road. And that frightens me.

The denials of moveon.org are nonsense. It's their website and they
control the content. Those "ads" appeared there because they WANTED them to
appear there. It is as simple as that. Moveon.org probably left these
"ads" online as a trial balloon to see the reaction and to obtain
validation.

They got a firestorm. One that they deserved.

Remember, moveon.org was founded by and run by current and former Democratic
Party officials. It is a practical, wholly-owned subsidary of the
Democratic Party. So when moveon.org (with the funding supplied by George
Soros) makes a comparison of Bush to Hitler, the DEMOCRATIC PARTY is doing
so as well. Make no mistake about that.

I have NEVER seen such rabid thougths uttered by the national Democratic
Party before. They have let their hatred go over the top and cross the line
into pure hate speech.

This must not be tolerated.

If the Democratic Party has any concept of civility, or fair play, or even
plain human decency, the PARTY and the CANDIDATES for the nomination will
promptly and strongly disavow these two "ads" and moveon.org for putting
them on their web site.

[George]

"Fan" <S2...@atxe2.com> wrote in message
news:3ffc45cb$1...@newspeer2.tds.net...

[George]

"Fan" <S2...@atxe2.com> wrote in message
news:3ffc45cb$1...@newspeer2.tds.net...
>

I'm not a Republican, but I'll reply for them.

_
| |
| |
_ | |
/ /_______
| | | | |
| | | | |
\ /
\ /

[George]

"Tempest" <tem...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3FFCBF0A...@hotmail.com...

>
>
> "Don W. McCollough" wrote:
> >
> > Steven Litvintchouk <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:<AEVKb.31091$IM3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> > > Tazmanian Devil wrote:
> > >
> > > > 'My Moveon Ad Ticked Off The RNC'
> > > >
> > > > Todd Mattson writes, "I think my Moveon.org ad was one of them that
> > > > ticked off the RNC and boy does that make my day.
> > >
> > > It also ticked off a lot of Jews including the Anti-Defamation League,
> > > because as they correctly pointed out, comparing Bush to Hitler
doesn't
> > > revile Bush so much as it ends up trivializing what Hitler was really
> > > like and what Hitler really did.
>
> Hitler didn't start out by killing Jews.
>
> He worked his way up to it.
>
> Just like Bush.

"It serves to diminish the suffering of the victims of the Holocaust," said

Cominsky. "There's no way you can compare anything Bush has done with a
calculated plan to slaughter 6 million Jews. ... At some point it just
cheapens the level of political discourse. People begin to be desensitized
to the pain and anguish of the Holocaust." "

[Houston Chronicle Editorial, "BEYOND THE PALE: Hitler has no place in U.S.
political discourse," 1/6/2004,
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/editorial/2339171]

Eat shit and die, cocksucker.

[George]

<Fair and Balanced Hyco-Limbaugh Fart Detector> wrote in message
news:3ffcb096....@news.supernews.com...

> On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 15:32:48 GMT, Steven Litvintchouk
> <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Tazmanian Devil wrote:
> >
> >> 'My Moveon Ad Ticked Off The RNC'
> >>
> >> Todd Mattson writes, "I think my Moveon.org ad was one of them that
> >> ticked off the RNC and boy does that make my day.
> >
> >It also ticked off a lot of Jews including the Anti-Defamation League,
> >because as they correctly pointed out, comparing Bush to Hitler doesn't
> >revile Bush so much as it ends up trivializing what Hitler was really
> >like and what Hitler really did.
> >
> >I wonder if that made his day too?
> >
> >
> >
> >-- Steven L.
> >
> who cares what the ADL thinks?
>
> Comparing Bush's agression to Hitler's is accurate.

Bullshit, you ugly jagoff.

"It serves to diminish the suffering of the victims of the Holocaust," said
Cominsky. "There's no way you can compare anything Bush has done with a
calculated plan to slaughter 6 million Jews. ... At some point it just
cheapens the level of political discourse. People begin to be desensitized
to the pain and anguish of the Holocaust." "

[Houston Chronicle Editorial, "BEYOND THE PALE: Hitler has no place in U.S.
political discourse," 1/6/2004,
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/editorial/2339171]

>

[zepp]

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 03:32:16 -0600, "George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv>
wrote:

Is it nice and dark where you're hiding, George?

[R West]

Steven Litvintchouk <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in

news:AEVKb.31091$IM3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

> trivializing

trivializing? I think most of us take this (our country) very seriously.
Maybe this will wake up a few to the reality of what is going on.

--
Regards,
R West
_____________________________________________

http://www.endtimesdg.org/
_____________________________________________

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784), quoted in Boswell's Life of Johnson
- More quotations on: [Patriotism]

[George Spelvin]

The lying, right-wing hypocrites are at it again. This time they are
misleading the public by falsely accusing MoveOn.org of utilizing the
favorite tactics of the RNC.
___________________________________________
Monday, Jan. 5, 2004

ADS ATTACKED BY RNC CHAIRMAN
ARE NOT MOVEON.ORG VOTER FUND ADS
MoveOn.org Voter Fund Regrets Screening Process Allowed Ads to Slip
Through

Statement by Wes Boyd, Founder of MoveOn.org Voter Fund:

The Republican National Committee and its chairman have falsely accused
MoveOn.org of sponsoring ads on its website which compare President Bush
to Adolf Hitler. The claim is deliberately and maliciously misleading.

During December the MoveOn.org Voter Fund invited members of the public
to submit ads that purported to tell the truth about the President and
his policies. More than 1,500 submissions from ordinary Americans came
in and were posted on a web site, bushin30seconds.org, for the public to
review.

None of these was our ad, nor did their appearance constitute
endorsement or sponsorship by MoveOn.org Voter Fund. They will not
appear on TV. We do not support the sentiment expressed in the two
Hitler submissions. They were voted down by our members and the public,
who reviewed the ads and submitted nearly 3 million critiques in the
process of choosing the 15 finalist entries.

We agree that the two ads in question were in poor taste and deeply
regret that they slipped through our screening process. In the future,
if we publish or broadcast raw material, we will create a more effective
filtering system.

Contrast this with the behavior of the RNC and its allies when
supporters of President Bush used TV ads morphing the face of Sen. Max
Cleland (D-GA) into that of Osama Bin Laden during the 2002 Senate race.

MoveOn.org and the MoveOn.org Voter Fund exist to bring the public into
the political process and produce a more fact-based election process. We
regret that the RNC doesn’t seem to embrace the same goals.
_____________________________________________

Not only did the RNC endorse Chambliss' disgusting ad against a man who
risked his life and lost 3 limbs while fighting for his country, but the
RNC itself released an ad falsely accusing opponents of Bush's foreign
policy as terrorist sympathizers: http://slate.msn.com/id/2091666/

The head of the Club for Growth, Stephen Moore, continued the hypocrisy
of the right-wing when he stated on CNN's Crossfire that he found
"nothing offensive" in the Chambliss attack on Max Cleland. Moore also
echoed the RNC's lie that MoveOn.org was responsible for the Bush/Hitler
ad (apparently comparing Bush to Hitler is outrageous, but comparing a
war hero to bin Laden and Saddam is not offensive).

The lying, right-wing hypocrites are so transparent it is a wonder
anyone continues to pay attention to them. Their hate for America is
pathetic.

[Tempest]

"George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message news:<btj96c$6rb$0...@pita.alt.net>...

> "Tempest" <tem...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3FFCBF0A...@hotmail.com...
> >
> >
> > "Don W. McCollough" wrote:
> > >
> > > Steven Litvintchouk <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
> news:<AEVKb.31091$IM3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> > > > Tazmanian Devil wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 'My Moveon Ad Ticked Off The RNC'
> > > > >
> > > > > Todd Mattson writes, "I think my Moveon.org ad was one of them that
> > > > > ticked off the RNC and boy does that make my day.
> > > >
> > > > It also ticked off a lot of Jews including the Anti-Defamation League,
> > > > because as they correctly pointed out, comparing Bush to Hitler
> doesn't
> > > > revile Bush so much as it ends up trivializing what Hitler was really
> > > > like and what Hitler really did.
> >
> > Hitler didn't start out by killing Jews.
> >
> > He worked his way up to it.
> >
> > Just like Bush.
>
> "It serves to diminish the suffering of the victims of the Holocaust," said
> Cominsky. "There's no way you can compare anything Bush has done with a
> calculated plan to slaughter 6 million Jews. ... At some point it just
> cheapens the level of political discourse. People begin to be desensitized
> to the pain and anguish of the Holocaust." "

Did the Holocaust start right after Hitler assumed control of Germany?

No.

> [Houston Chronicle Editorial, "BEYOND THE PALE: Hitler has no place in U.S.
> political discourse," 1/6/2004,
> http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/editorial/2339171]
>
> Eat shit and die, cocksucker.

I'm in awe of your ability to repeat old, tired insults.

Go away little boy.

[Tempest]

"George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message news:<btj96c$6rb$0...@pita.alt.net>...

Where is the Outrage over MurdochRag's Comparison of Dean to Hitler?

MediaChannel.org writes, "While there continues to be widespread and
negative media attention - orchestrated in large part by the
Republican National Committee and Anti-Defamation League - in response
to the two 30-second segments on MoveOn, there as yet exists no
response to, or coverage of, The New York Post's decision to publish
Peters' hate-filled invective. In case you've missed it, here's a
sample: 'Howard Dean and his Deanie-weenies do all they can to
restrict the free speech of others. I can predict with certainty that
Dean's Internet Gestapo will pounce on this column, twisting the facts
and vilifying the writer, just as they do when anyone challenges
Howard the Coward.'... As of 5:00pm EST Wednesday, a Google News
search returned more than 100 stories on
the MoveOn.org fiasco, with the bulk of coverage casting a negative
light on MoveOn.org. A similar search on Peters' Dean-Nazi comparison
returns only one story - The New York Post column itself."
http://www.mediachannel.org/views/dissector/affalert128.shtml

> Eat shit and die, cocksucker.

Fucking hypocrite.

[Mr. N]

"Agathena" <nos...@thisaddress.com> wrote in message
news:1fbe02e726e14e54...@grapevine.islandnet.com...

> "Evil" is a construct of Judaic/Christian mono-theistic
> religion.

Disagree. It's a concept that fits well even in humanist philosophy, which
is not at all morally relativistic.

--
-My Real Name

[Richard Hutnik]

One thing that is REALLY bothering me about this is that, I believe
moveon.org accepted independent submissions from people to do
anti-Bush ads. TWO of the 15,000 submitted compared Bush to Hitler.
People were to vote on which ones they wanted. The right to free
speech IS being threatened here. The ads ARE in poor taste, and
inaccurate, but they were done independently.

Oh my gosh, what is next? Is the Secret Service going to go up and
lock anyone away who says Bush is like Hitler now?

Did either of these 2 ads end up making the top 15 and were pulled?
- Richard Hutnik

Tazmanian Devil <my...@biteme.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.1a65dcdc1...@news.vgernet.net>...

> 'My Moveon Ad Ticked Off The RNC'
>
> Todd Mattson writes, "I think my Moveon.org ad was one of them that

[Ruben Rodriguez]

George Spelvin <spe...@everywhere.edu> wrote in message news:<3FFD9ACC...@everywhere.edu>...

But instead of cramming this up the Republlcians asses and rubbing the
press' nose in their own hypocricy, they apologized. (the Houston
Chronicle reportedly ran an editorial criticizing the ads. Their
editorial page is where I saw the Ramirez cartoon showing Daschle
crashing a plane into the White House shortly after 9-11) Which is
why the only Democrat who has my support for president is Ted Kennedy.

> regret that the RNC doesn?t seem to embrace the same goals.

> _____________________________________________
>
> Not only did the RNC endorse Chambliss' disgusting ad against a man who
> risked his life and lost 3 limbs while fighting for his country, but the
> RNC itself released an ad falsely accusing opponents of Bush's foreign
> policy as terrorist sympathizers: http://slate.msn.com/id/2091666/
>
> The head of the Club for Growth, Stephen Moore, continued the hypocrisy
> of the right-wing when he stated on CNN's Crossfire that he found
> "nothing offensive" in the Chambliss attack on Max Cleland. Moore also
> echoed the RNC's lie that MoveOn.org was responsible for the Bush/Hitler
> ad (apparently comparing Bush to Hitler is outrageous, but comparing a
> war hero to bin Laden and Saddam is not offensive).
>
> The lying, right-wing hypocrites are so transparent it is a wonder
> anyone continues to pay attention to them. Their hate for America is
> pathetic.

--
"By the time he returns to the White House in early September, Bush
will have spent almost two months of his presidency at the ranch."
-Houston Chronicle, 8/8/01

08 May 2001

President Bush May 8 directed Vice President Dick Cheney to coordinate
development of U.S. government initiatives to combat terrorist attacks
on the United States...

Cheney will lead a new task force to address terrorist threats and
will report to Congress by October 1, after a review by the National
Security Council.

http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/01050878.htm

"In his final budget request for the fiscal year 2003 submitted on
Sept. 10 to the budget director, Mitchell E. Daniels Jr., the attorney
general called for spending increases in 68 programs, none of which
directly involved counterterrorism. Upgrading the F.B.I.'s computer
system, one of the areas in which he sought an increase, is relevant
to combating terrorism, though Mr. Ashcroft did not defend it on that
ground.

But in his Sept. 10 submission to the budget office, Mr. Ashcroft did
not endorse F.B.I. requests for $58 million for 149 new
counterterrorism field agents, 200 intelligence analysts and 54
additional translators.

Mr. Ashcroft proposed cuts in 14 programs. One proposed $65 million
cut was for a program that gives state and local counterterrorism
grants for equipment, including radios and decontamination suits and
training to localities for counterterrorism preparedness."
-New York Times, 2/28/02

[Peacenik]

"George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message

news:btj709$1a0$0...@pita.alt.net...

> Fuck Todd Mattson. Fuck YOU.

Can't handle the truth, eh?

[George]

"zepp" <zeppn...@finestplanet.com> wrote in message
news:h6pqvvsut1q8jbnj8...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 03:32:16 -0600, "George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Fan" <S2...@atxe2.com> wrote in message
> >news:3ffc45cb$1...@newspeer2.tds.net...
> >>
> >> > Perhaps you'd like to cite the link where the ADL criticizes
> >Saddam/Hitler
> >> > comparisons.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Don't hold your breath. Republicans like to scurry into the shadows
and
> >> hide when they have no rebuttal.
> >
> >I'm not a Republican, but I'll reply for them.
> >
> > _
> > | |
> > | |
> > _ | |
> > / /_______
> > | | | | |
> > | | | | |
> > \ /
> > \ /
> >
>
> Is it nice and dark where you're hiding, George?

Nope.

I've got a 300,000 candle power aircraft landing light shining on you
cockroaches -- and you're scurrying for the baseboards like there is no
tomorrow.

[George]

"Tempest" <mordacp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2df29c5c.04010...@posting.google.com...

Actually, it did.

>
> > [Houston Chronicle Editorial, "BEYOND THE PALE: Hitler has no place in
U.S.
> > political discourse," 1/6/2004,
> > http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/editorial/2339171]
> >
> > Eat shit and die, cocksucker.
>
> I'm in awe of your ability to repeat old, tired insults.

I'm in awe that your mommy let you use her keyboard, toad.

>
> Go away little boy.

Go fuck yourself, cum-spot.

[George]

"Tempest" <mordacp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2df29c5c.04010...@posting.google.com...

Good question.

Note, I didn't read it until you posted it.

>
> MediaChannel.org writes, "While there continues to be widespread and
> negative media attention - orchestrated in large part by the
> Republican National Committee and Anti-Defamation League - in response
> to the two 30-second segments on MoveOn, there as yet exists no
> response to, or coverage of, The New York Post's decision to publish
> Peters' hate-filled invective. In case you've missed it, here's a
> sample: 'Howard Dean and his Deanie-weenies do all they can to
> restrict the free speech of others. I can predict with certainty that
> Dean's Internet Gestapo will pounce on this column, twisting the facts
> and vilifying the writer, just as they do when anyone challenges
> Howard the Coward.'... As of 5:00pm EST Wednesday, a Google News
> search returned more than 100 stories on
> the MoveOn.org fiasco, with the bulk of coverage casting a negative
> light on MoveOn.org. A similar search on Peters' Dean-Nazi comparison
> returns only one story - The New York Post column itself."
> http://www.mediachannel.org/views/dissector/affalert128.shtml

Dean is STUPID and VICIOUS. And a liberal ASSHOLE. [Like you]

But I personally don't think he is "Hitler."

But Rupert Murdoch doesn't work for me, otherwise I'd give him a good
talking to.

Do you people understand the consequences of making such claims? First of
all, almost every American thinks you people are stupid and crazy. Second
of all, most Americans are repulsed at people who make such claims without
any proof, and only out of hatred and invective. Third -- and best of
all -- it will guarantee a sympathy vote for Bush who *IS* being seen as the
target of defamation and unfair commentary.

Come back, asshole, when you have evidence that Bush has sent 6 Million Jews
to the gas chambers, as well as an additional 4 to 6 million OTHER
"undesirables" (Greeks, Poles, Serbs, Bosnians, Gypsies, Russians, etc.) to
the same death camps.

>
> > Eat shit and die, cocksucker.
>
> Fucking hypocrite.

Cocksucking asshole. Stupid, lying pig.

[George]

"Peacenik" <crisk...@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:7eJLb.10765$xy6.26431@attbi_s02...

Then why did the COCKSUCKER make a video comparing him to a mass murderer
who -- with malice aforethougth -- sent 6 million Jews (and another 4-6
million other "undersireables") to gas chambers?

Why didn't that Felcher Mattson make one about comparing him to Stalin,
ordered the deaths of 20 million Kulaks? Oh, Wait! Then he'd be your
hero, wouldn't he?

[George]

"George Spelvin" <spe...@everywhere.edu> wrote in message
news:3FFD9ACC...@everywhere.edu...

> The lying, right-wing hypocrites are at it again. This time they are
> misleading the public by falsely accusing MoveOn.org of utilizing the
> favorite tactics of the RNC.

Moveon.org are lying cocksuckers.

These fuckers OWN that website.

These fucking asslickers TOTALLY control what appears on that website.
NOBODY BUT THEM CONTROLS IT!

These cocksucking, fucking, cunts deliberately displayed what is clearly
hate speech appear on their website.

THEY and only THEY are responsible for saying that Bush is Hitler.

And come next November, the people are going to remember this. I promise
you!

> ___________________________________________
> Monday, Jan. 5, 2004
>
> ADS ATTACKED BY RNC CHAIRMAN
> ARE NOT MOVEON.ORG VOTER FUND ADS
> MoveOn.org Voter Fund Regrets Screening Process Allowed Ads to Slip
> Through
>
> Statement by Wes Boyd, Founder of MoveOn.org Voter Fund:
>

Fuck this lying Bush-hating asshole with a hot branding iron up the ass.

[George]

"Ruben Rodriguez" <WhereWa...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:a8e21b37.04010...@posting.google.com...

> George Spelvin <spe...@everywhere.edu> wrote in message
news:<3FFD9ACC...@everywhere.edu>...
>
> But instead of cramming this up the Republlcians asses and rubbing the
> press' nose in their own hypocricy, they apologized.

No, you sack of Bush-hating shit.

They got their heads handed to them when their Soros funded, hate-speech
trial balloon blew up in their faces.

And they are going to get even more next November.

[George]

"Richard Hutnik" <richar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:37bc9e37.04010...@posting.google.com...

> One thing that is REALLY bothering me about this is that, I believe
> moveon.org accepted independent submissions from people to do
> anti-Bush ads. TWO of the 15,000 submitted compared Bush to Hitler.
> People were to vote on which ones they wanted. The right to free
> speech IS being threatened here. The ads ARE in poor taste, and
> inaccurate, but they were done independently.

Moveon.org is totally responsible for EVERYTHING that appears on their
website.

THEY ADMITTED THEY LET THEM THROUGH!

>
> Oh my gosh, what is next? Is the Secret Service going to go up and
> lock anyone away who says Bush is like Hitler now?

What's next is that you fucking democraps are going to be destroyed at the
polls next November.

[eric davis]

George <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message

news:btoi2n$g1d$0...@pita.alt.net...

whoaaa!!, take a stress tablet, Adolf

eric.

[caerbannog]

Cool off, boy -- you'll tip your trailer off its blocks!

[Steveo]

George wrote:
> "George Spelvin" <spe...@everywhere.edu> wrote in message
> news:3FFD9ACC...@everywhere.edu...
>
>>The lying, right-wing hypocrites are at it again. This time they are
>>misleading the public by falsely accusing MoveOn.org of utilizing the
>>favorite tactics of the RNC.
>
>
> Moveon.org are lying cocksuckers.
>
> These fuckers OWN that website.
>
> These fucking asslickers TOTALLY control what appears on that website.

Conservospeak.

> NOBODY BUT THEM CONTROLS IT!
>
> These cocksucking, fucking, cunts deliberately displayed what is clearly

Conservospeak at its best.

> hate speech appear on their website.
>
> THEY and only THEY are responsible for saying that Bush is Hitler.
>
> And come next November, the people are going to remember this. I promise
> you!
>
>
>>___________________________________________
>>Monday, Jan. 5, 2004
>>
>>ADS ATTACKED BY RNC CHAIRMAN
>>ARE NOT MOVEON.ORG VOTER FUND ADS
>>MoveOn.org Voter Fund Regrets Screening Process Allowed Ads to Slip
>>Through
>>
>>Statement by Wes Boyd, Founder of MoveOn.org Voter Fund:
>>
>
>
> Fuck this lying Bush-hating asshole with a hot branding iron up the ass.

Not quite up to the normal Conservospeak level.

[Richard Hutnik]

"George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message news:<btoi9a$gal$0...@pita.alt.net>...

Apparently, anyone who doesn't like Bush, or feels that that this
moveon.org issue is a question of free speech is a democrap to you. I
am not a democrap. I am an independent the last I checked. I recall
registering as such when I went into a new voting district.

By the way, nice reply that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the
topic of moveon.org

- Richard Hutnik

[Unknown]

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:08:17 -0500, Tazmanian Devil <my...@biteme.com>
wrote:

>'My Moveon Ad Ticked Off The RNC'
>
>Todd Mattson writes, "I think my Moveon.org ad was one of them that

>ticked off the RNC and boy does that make my day. Thing is, I didn't
>really state that Bush is Hitler, nor do I believe that. I do, however,
>know that he has said some rather scary stuff, and his administration is
>hell bent on turning America into a police state.

Just about every American regime since Andrew Jackson has been "hell
bent on turning America into a police state." The turning point event
was the creation of a national bank because, as the godfather of
modern banking once correctly observed:

"Let me control a nation's currency and I care not who makes their
laws." -- Baron M. Rothschild.

[remaining silliness flushed]

[Ruben Rodriguez]

"George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message news:<btoi63$g7a$0...@pita.alt.net>...

The very same Soros who said the Bush administration's secrecy and
attacks on the Constituion reminded him of the Nazi era he grew up in?

> And they are going to get even more next November.

Wesley Clark came THIS close to calling your monkey a liar. Be sure
to watch 60 Minutes. You might discover that the search for Saddam's
WMD on Mars is pointless.

--
"A lot of Jews are great friends of mine. They swarm around me and are
friendly to me. Because they know that I am friendly to Israel and so
forth. But they don't know how I really feel about what they're doing
to this country, and I have no power and no way to handle them". --The
Rev. Billy Graham

"Fuck the Jews. They didn't vote for us." -James A. Baker III

[zepp]

On 11 Jan 2004 01:19:41 -0800, WhereWa...@netscape.net (Ruben
Rodriguez) wrote:

>"George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message news:<btoi63$g7a$0...@pita.alt.net>...
>> "Ruben Rodriguez" <WhereWa...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>> news:a8e21b37.04010...@posting.google.com...
>> > George Spelvin <spe...@everywhere.edu> wrote in message
>> news:<3FFD9ACC...@everywhere.edu>...
>> >
>> > But instead of cramming this up the Republlcians asses and rubbing the
>> > press' nose in their own hypocricy, they apologized.
>>
>> No, you sack of Bush-hating shit.
>>
>> They got their heads handed to them when their Soros funded, hate-speech
>> trial balloon blew up in their faces.
>
>The very same Soros who said the Bush administration's secrecy and
>attacks on the Constituion reminded him of the Nazi era he grew up in?
>
>> And they are going to get even more next November.
>
>Wesley Clark came THIS close to calling your monkey a liar. Be sure
>to watch 60 Minutes. You might discover that the search for Saddam's
>WMD on Mars is pointless.

Just the Paul Allen interview alone will make 60 Minutes worth
watching tonight. What kind of leader meets with his economic
advisers and never asks any questions?

[George Spelvin]

George wrote:
>
> "George Spelvin" <spe...@everywhere.edu> wrote in message
> news:3FFD9ACC...@everywhere.edu...
> > The lying, right-wing hypocrites are at it again. This time they are
> > misleading the public by falsely accusing MoveOn.org of utilizing the
> > favorite tactics of the RNC.
>
> Moveon.org are lying cocksuckers.
>
> These fuckers OWN that website.
>
> These fucking asslickers TOTALLY control what appears on that website.
> NOBODY BUT THEM CONTROLS IT!
>
> These cocksucking, fucking, cunts deliberately displayed what is clearly
> hate speech appear on their website.
>
> THEY and only THEY are responsible for saying that Bush is Hitler.

You are a liar and not a very good one at that. I'm not surprised by
this post . . . it's typical "wit" from a right-winger.

> And come next November, the people are going to remember this. I promise
> you!
>
> > ___________________________________________
> > Monday, Jan. 5, 2004
> >
> > ADS ATTACKED BY RNC CHAIRMAN
> > ARE NOT MOVEON.ORG VOTER FUND ADS
> > MoveOn.org Voter Fund Regrets Screening Process Allowed Ads to Slip
> > Through
> >
> > Statement by Wes Boyd, Founder of MoveOn.org Voter Fund:
> >
>
> Fuck this lying Bush-hating asshole with a hot branding iron up the ass.

This is the kind of hatred that will be remembered in November.

--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001

[Leland Milton Goldblatt PhD]

My family was one of Hitler's victims. We lost a lot under the Nazi
occupation, including an uncle who died in the camps and a cousin
killed by a booby trap. I was terrified when my father went ballistic
after finding my brother and me playing with a hand grenade. (I was
only 12 at the time, and my brother insisted the grenade was safe.) I
remember the rubble and the hardships of 'austerity' - and the bomb
craters from Allied bombs. As late as the 1980s, I had to take detours
while bombs were being removed - they litter the countryside, buried
under parking lots,buildings, and in the canals and rivers to this
day. Believe me, I learned a lot about Hitler while I was growing up,
both in Europe and here in the US - both my parents were in the war
and talked about it constantly, unlike most American families. I spent
my earliest years with the second-hand fear that trickled down from
their PTSD - undiagnosed and untreated in those days.

So why, now, when I hear GWB's speeches, do I think of Hitler? Why
have I drawn a parallel between the Nazis and the present
administration? Just one small reason -the phrase 'Never forget'.
Never let this happen again. It is better to question our government -
because it really can happen here - than to ignore the possibility.

So far, I've seen nothing to eliminate the possibility that Bush
is on the same course as Hitler. And I've seen far too many analogies
to dismiss the possibility. The propaganda. The lies. The rhetoric.
The nationalism. The flag waving. The pretext of 'preventive war'. The
flaunting of international law and international standards of justice.
The disappearances of 'undesirable' aliens. The threats against
protesters. The invasion of a non-threatening sovereign nation. The
occupation of a hostile country. The promises of prosperity and
security. The spying on ordinary citizens. The incitement to spy on
one's neighbors - and report them to the government. The arrogant
triumphant pride in military conquest. The honoring of soldiers. The
tributes to 'fallen warriors. The diversion of money to the military.
The demonization of government appointed 'enemies'. The establishment
of 'Homeland Security'. The dehumanization of 'foreigners'. The total
lack of interest in the victims of government policy. The
incarceration of the poor and mentally ill. The growing prosperity
from military ventures. The illusion of 'goodness' and primacy. The
new einsatzgrupen forces. Assassination teams. Closed extralegal
internment camps. The militarization of domestic police. Media
blackout of non-approved issues. Blacklisting of protesters -
including the no-fly lists and photographing dissenters at rallies.

"Bush feels that on September 11th he was anointed by God," Prof.
Goldblatt Said "He's leading the U.S. and the world toward a vicious
circle of escalating violence."

Shalom,
---Prof. Leland Milton Goldblatt, Ph.D. ®
Copyright © 2003

http://www.prof.faithweb.com
http://drgoldblatt.blogspot.com/
(773) 731-1100

HAIL to the THIEF! Not my president. IMPEACH HE SUPREME COURT!

The Bush administration has managed to appropriate $87 billion for,
among other things, building new schools in Iraq, they're cutting
costs at home by closing schools for the children of American
servicepeople.
For the Bush (appointed by the United States Supreme Court)
administration to make these cuts in the first place is awful (so much
for Republicans supporting the military) but to make them during a
time of war, while American soldiers are fighting and dying on a daily
basis, is simply disgraceful.

[George]

"George Spelvin" <spe...@everywhere.edu> wrote in message

news:40016C68...@everywhere.edu...

> George wrote:
> >
> > "George Spelvin" <spe...@everywhere.edu> wrote in message
> > news:3FFD9ACC...@everywhere.edu...
> > > The lying, right-wing hypocrites are at it again. This time they are
> > > misleading the public by falsely accusing MoveOn.org of utilizing the
> > > favorite tactics of the RNC.
> >
> > Moveon.org are lying cocksuckers.
> >
> > These fuckers OWN that website.
> >
> > These fucking asslickers TOTALLY control what appears on that website.
> > NOBODY BUT THEM CONTROLS IT!
> >
> > These cocksucking, fucking, cunts deliberately displayed what is clearly
> > hate speech appear on their website.
> >
> > THEY and only THEY are responsible for saying that Bush is Hitler.
>
> You are a liar and not a very good one at that.

Are you claiming that www.bushin30seconds.org is NOT their website?

The onwners of a website are legally, morally, and ethically responsible for
WHAT EVER is posted. And that piece of filth that equated Bush with Hitler
could have only been published with the approval of their webmaster.

> I'm not surprised by
> this post . . . it's typical "wit" from a right-winger.

Translation: "Moveon.org has been caught playing the Nazi card."

Fuck you, George, you God damned apologist for hate-speakers.

[George]

"Ruben Rodriguez" <WhereWa...@netscape.net> wrote in message

news:a8e21b37.04011...@posting.google.com...

> "George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message
news:<btoi63$g7a$0...@pita.alt.net>...
> > "Ruben Rodriguez" <WhereWa...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:a8e21b37.04010...@posting.google.com...
> > > George Spelvin <spe...@everywhere.edu> wrote in message
> > news:<3FFD9ACC...@everywhere.edu>...
> > >
> > > But instead of cramming this up the Republlcians asses and rubbing the
> > > press' nose in their own hypocricy, they apologized.
> >
> > No, you sack of Bush-hating shit.
> >
> > They got their heads handed to them when their Soros funded, hate-speech
> > trial balloon blew up in their faces.
>
> The very same Soros who said the Bush administration's secrecy and
> attacks on the Constituion reminded him of the Nazi era he grew up in?

Yeah, the very same asshole who paid moveon.org to publish a video morphing
Hitler into Bush. Yeah, that Bush-hating bastard George Soros.

>
> > And they are going to get even more next November.
>
> Wesley Clark came THIS close to calling your monkey a liar. Be sure
> to watch 60 Minutes. You might discover that the search for Saddam's
> WMD on Mars is pointless.

And the America people are very close to swinging a baseball bat to beat the
shit you call brains out of your entire Party for being part of that filth.

[George]

"zepp" <zeppn...@finestplanet.com> wrote in message

news:4hq200hangnp90qei...@4ax.com...

> On 11 Jan 2004 01:19:41 -0800, WhereWa...@netscape.net (Ruben
> Rodriguez) wrote:
>
> >"George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message
news:<btoi63$g7a$0...@pita.alt.net>...
> >> "Ruben Rodriguez" <WhereWa...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> >> news:a8e21b37.04010...@posting.google.com...
> >> > George Spelvin <spe...@everywhere.edu> wrote in message
> >> news:<3FFD9ACC...@everywhere.edu>...
> >> >
> >> > But instead of cramming this up the Republlcians asses and rubbing
the
> >> > press' nose in their own hypocricy, they apologized.
> >>
> >> No, you sack of Bush-hating shit.
> >>
> >> They got their heads handed to them when their Soros funded,
hate-speech
> >> trial balloon blew up in their faces.
> >
> >The very same Soros who said the Bush administration's secrecy and
> >attacks on the Constituion reminded him of the Nazi era he grew up in?
> >
> >> And they are going to get even more next November.
> >
> >Wesley Clark came THIS close to calling your monkey a liar. Be sure
> >to watch 60 Minutes. You might discover that the search for Saddam's
> >WMD on Mars is pointless.
>
> Just the Paul Allen interview alone will make 60 Minutes worth
> watching tonight. What kind of leader meets with his economic
> advisers and never asks any questions?

What kind of people equate any American with the man who ordered the
deliberate murder of 6 million Jews and several more million "undesirables?"

What kind of people DO NOT RISE UP IN OUTRAGE at such filthy nonsense?

YOU.

People like YOU!

People like you who cross the line beyond the pale every day in your hatred
of George W. Bush.

[George]

You ugly bastard.

You have no right to compare the man who ordered the deliberate murder of
TEN MILLION PEOPLE to any American President.

You may not like his speeches. You may not like his policies. You may not
even like him as a human being. But NOTHING he has DONE comes anywhere near
ordering the murder of 6 million Jews -- for simply being Jews -- or for
ordering the murder of another 4 or so million "undesirables" (Gypsies,
mentally ill, terminally ill, old, political enemies).

How dare you make that claim -- you who claimed to survived the Holocaust!
You should be ashamed.

In case you forgot -- it is people like YOU who support the murder unborned
babies, not Bush who is against abortion. You are a lot closer to Hitler
(with a dead baby count of almost 2 million) that Bush will ever be.
Remember that!

"Leland Milton Goldblatt PhD" <lelandmilt...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:e87f6743.04011...@posting.google.com...

[George]

"Steveo" <ste...@endwar.com> wrote in message
news:7A%Lb.59721$m83.34271@fed1read01...

>
>
> George wrote:
> > "George Spelvin" <spe...@everywhere.edu> wrote in message
> > news:3FFD9ACC...@everywhere.edu...
> >
> >>The lying, right-wing hypocrites are at it again. This time they are
> >>misleading the public by falsely accusing MoveOn.org of utilizing the
> >>favorite tactics of the RNC.
> >
> >
> > Moveon.org are lying cocksuckers.
> >
> > These fuckers OWN that website.
> >
> > These fucking asslickers TOTALLY control what appears on that website.
>
> Conservospeak.

Translation: "It's the truth."

>
>
> > NOBODY BUT THEM CONTROLS IT!
> >
> > These cocksucking, fucking, cunts deliberately displayed what is clearly
>
>
> Conservospeak at its best.

Translation: "It's the truth."

[EagleEye]

"George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message

news:btte2a$sic$0...@pita.alt.net...

I think the parallel is being made to the Reichstag fire, and the subsequent
assault on civil liberties in the name of security within a climat of fear,
which only the state can protect you from. That is how Hitler rose to power.
That is how Bush gained a mandate to wage war. There IS a parellel there,
that is if you believe that Bush had foreknowledge of 9/11 and gave it his
blessing, if only by a permissive will. Here's some evidence that that is
actually the case. Read it and weap.

Related stories:

1. NY Times: Bush Warned bin Laden Would Hijack Planes
"The White House said tonight that President Bush had been warned by
American intelligence agencies in early August that
Osama bin Laden was seeking to hijack aircraft..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/16/politics/16INQU.html

2. CNN: Bush briefed on hijacking threat before 9-11
"President Bush's daily intelligence briefings in the weeks leading up to
the September 11 terror attacks included a
warning of the possibility that Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network would
attempt to hijack a U.S.-based airliner, senior
administration officials said Wednesday"
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/05/15/bush.sept.11/index.html

3. UK Guardian: Bush knew terrorists would hijack planes
"George Bush received specific warnings in the weeks before 11 September
that an attack inside the United States was
being planned by Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, US government sources
said yesterday.. The memo received by Bush on
6 August contained unconfirmed information passed on by British intelligence
in 1998 revealing that al-Qaeda operatives
had discussed hijacking a plane to negotiate the release of Sheikh Omar
Abdel Rahman, the Muslim cleric imprisoned in
America for his part in a plot to blow up the World Trade Centre in 1993."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,11209,718312,00.html

4. Sunday Herald: Britain warned Bush to expect 9-11 al-Qaeda hijackings
"Britain gave President Bush a categorical warning to expect multiple
airline hijackings by the al-Qaeda network a month
before the September 11 attacks which killed nearly 3000 people and
triggered the international war against terrorism."
http://www.sundayherald.com/24822

5. Village Voice: Officials Warned of Plans to Attack DC, NY with Planes
"The U.S. government had received repeated warnings of impending attacks-and
attacks using planes directed at New York
and Washington-for several years. The government never told us about what it
knew was coming."
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0332/mondo4.php

6. AP: 9/11 report, Rice conflict; Bush got specific data on threats
"...the briefing given to the president a month before the suicide
hijackings included recent intelligence that al-Qaida
was planning to send operatives to the United States to carry out an attack
using high explosives."
http://www.sunspot.net/business/nationworld/bal-te.rice29jul29,0,2620591.sto
ry?coll=bal-business-headlines

7. MSNBC: White House Briefed on Imminent bin Laden Attack
"One such CIA briefing, in July 2001, was particularly chilling and
prophetic. It predicted that Osama bin Laden was
about to launch a terrorist strike 'in the coming weeks,' the congressional
investigators found. The intelligence
briefing went on to say: 'The attack will be spectacular and designed to
inflict mass casualties against U.S. facilities
or interests. Attack preparations have been made. Attack will occur with
little or no warning.'"
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3067907/

8. MSN: Condoleezza Rice's False Statement
A: "The overwhelming bulk of the evidence was that this was an attack that
was likely to take place overseas."
- White House National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, in a May 16 news
briefing.

B: "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S."
- Title of the CIA's Aug. 6 briefing memo to President Bush . . .
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2066154

9. Newsweek: Day before 9-11, Pentagon Generals Cancelled Flights
"On Sept. 10, NEWSWEEK has learned, a group of top Pentagon officials
suddenly canceled travel plans for the next
morning, apparently because of security concerns."
http://www.msnbc.com/news/629606.asp (link dead)

10. SF Gate: Mayor got 8-hour warning Before 9-11 Attacks - September 12,
2001
For Mayor Willie Brown, the first signs that something was amiss came late
Monday when he got a call from what he
described as his airport security - - a full eight hours before yesterday's
string of terrorist attacks -- advising him
that Americans should be cautious about their air travel.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/09/12
/MN229389.DTL

11. Florida State: Jeb Bush Declares Martial Law 9-7-01
"Based on the potential massive damage to life and property that may result
from an act of terrorism at a Florida port,
the necessity to protect life and property from such acts of terrorism..."
http://www.state.fl.us/eog_new/eog/orders/2001/september/eo2001-261-09-07-01
.html

12. CBS News: Ashcroft Avoided Commercial Travel Prior to 9-11
"In response to inquiries from CBS News over why Ashcroft was traveling
exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of
commercial airlines, the Justice Department cited what it called a "threat
assessment" by the FBI, and said Ashcroft has
been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/07/26/national/printable303601.shtml

13. UK Independent: Taliban Mole Warning Ignored
"Weeks before the terrorist attacks on 11 September, the United States and
the United Nations ignored warnings from a
secret Taliban emissary that Osama bin Laden was planning a huge attack on
American soil."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=331115

14. NY Times: "President Mubarek Warned US of Al Qaeda Plot"
"Egyptian intelligence warned American officials about a week before Sept.
11 that Osama bin Laden's network was in the
advance stages of executing a significant operation against an American
target, President Hosni Mubarak said in an
interview on Sunday."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30D16F73B5E0C778CDDAF0894DA4
04482

15. Village Voice: US Ignored France Warnings
"A key point in unraveling why the FBI failed to follow up leads on Al Qaeda
terrorism now centers on the Bureau's
contemptuously brushing aside warnings from French intelligence a few days
before 9-11."
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0222/ridgeway2.php

16. Intl. Herald Tribune: White House Ignored Arab Warnings
"When the hubbub about what the White House did or didn't know before Sept.
11 dies down, Congressional or other
investigators should consider the specific warnings that friendly Arab
intelligence services sent to Washington in the
summer of 2001." http://www.iht.com/articles/58269.html

17. UK News-Telegraph: Israel issued urgent warning of large-scale terror
attacks
Israeli intelligence officials say that they warned their counterparts in
the United States last month that large-scale
terrorist attacks on highly visible targets on the American mainland were
imminent."
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$52PMOXQAADW5PQFIQMGSF
FOAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2001/09/16/wcia16.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/09/16/ixhome

18. NY Post: FBI Warned D.C. It Was A Target
"A Minnesota FBI agent investigating Zacarias Moussaoui testified yesterday
that he notified the Secret Service weeks
before Sept. 11 that a terror team might hijack a plane and 'hit the
nation's capital.'"
http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/57848.htm

20. Yahoo News: FBI Warnings Ignored
"An FBI supervisor, sounding a prophetic pre-Sept. 11 alarm, warned FBI
headquarters that student pilot Zacarias
Moussaoui was so dangerous he might 'take control of a plane and fly it into
the World Trade Center,' a congressional
investigator said in a report Tuesday."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=512&ncid=716&e=4&u=/ap/2002
0924/ap_on_go_co/attacks_intelligence

21. Independent: America had 12 warnings of aircraft attack
"American intelligence received many more clues before the 11 September
attacks than previously disclosed, that
terrorists might hijack planes and turn them into weapons, a joint
congressional committee was told yesterday."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=334633

22. Washington Post: 9/11 Probe Says Agencies Failed to Heed Attack Signs
"U.S. intelligence agencies received many more indications than previously
disclosed that Osama bin Laden's terrorist
network was planning imminent "spectacular" attacks in the summer of 2001
aimed at inflicting mass casualties."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36754-2002Sep18.html

23. Yahoo News: Spy Agencies Had Pre-9/11 Threats on U.S. Soil
"U.S. intelligence agencies picked up threats of attacks inside the United
States and of using airplanes as weapons
during the spring and summer before last year's Sept. 11 attacks, but were
more focused on the possibility of an assault
overseas, a congressional source said on Tuesday."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=578&ncid=578&e=1&u=/nm/2002
0917/ts_nm/attack_congress_intelligence_dc

24. Vanity Fair: Bin Laden Relatives Secretly Evacuated From NY
"Patrick Tyler of the New York Times is reporting from Washington: 'In the
first days after the attacks on Sept. 11, the
Saudi Arabian ambasador to Washington, Prince Bandar ibn Sultan, supervised
the urgent evacuation of 24 members of Osama
bin Laden's extended family from the United States fearing they might be
subjected to violence.'"
http://www.guerrillanews.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=gnn&N
umber=204363&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&part=all

25. Sydney Morning Herald: Administration Told US agents "Back off bin
Ladens"
"US special agents were told to back off the bin Laden family and the Saudi
royals soon after George Bush became
president, although that has all changed since September 11, it was reported
today."
http://www.old.smh.com.au/news/0111/07/world/world100.html

26. Ha'aretz Daily: CEO Says Workers Warned Hours Before World Trade Center
Hit -- FBI Investigating
"Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received
messages two hours before the Twin Towers
attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company
has been cooperating with Israeli and
American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original
sender of the message predicting the
attack." http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=77744

27. NY Times: White House Approved Secret Evacuation of Bin Ladens After
9-11
"Richard Clarke, who ran White House crisis team after Sept 11 terror
attacks, says top White House officials personally
approved evacuation of dozens of influential Saudis, including relatives of
Osama bin Laden, from United States in days
after Sept 11, when most flights were grounded."
http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/090503A.shtml

28. Tampa Tribune: Bodyguards tell of Secret Bin Laden Flight
"The hastily arranged flight out of Raytheon Airport Services, a private
hangar on the outskirts of Tampa International
Airport, was anything but ordinary. It lifted off the tarmac at a time when
every private plane in the nation was
grounded due to safety concerns after the Sept. 11 attacks. "
http://www.dirtybush.com/connectthesedots.html

29. UK Minister: "Bush had Foreknowledge of 9-11 attacks"
"...it is not surprising that some have seen the US failure to avert the
9/11 attacks as creating an invaluable pretext
for attacking Afghanistan in a war that had clearly already been well
planned in advance."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,11209,1036588,00.html

[George]

"EagleEye" <eagl...@omega.org> wrote in message
news:2brMb.3335$1K1....@news20.bellglobal.com...

Are you one of those assholes who thinks that Bush ordered the attack on
9/11 the way Hitler order the burning of the Reichstadt?

>There IS a parellel there,
> that is if you believe that Bush had foreknowledge of 9/11 and gave it his
> blessing, if only by a permissive will. Here's some evidence that that is
> actually the case. Read it and weap.

Jesus!

Are you full of shit.

You have no evidence that BUSH willingly and knowlingly ordered or allowed
the attack on the United States of America on 9/11/2001.

Clinton was warned about bin Laden -- and was offered him *3* times -- and
did nothing!

Does that mean the CLINTON knowingly or willfully ordered the attack on the
Kobahr Towers, the 2 African embassies, and the USS Cole? Does that mean
the CLINTON allowed the attack to occur?

YOU ARE SIMPLY FULL OF SHIT!

[EagleEye]

"EagleEye" <eagl...@omega.org> wrote in message
news:2brMb.3335$1K1....@news20.bellglobal.com...
>

And didn't Bush when recently asked in a Whitehouse press briefing by a
reporter he referred to as "Big Stretch" about Howard Dean's allusion to his
having foreknowledge of 9/11, repond, after some embarrasing stumbling
around, "it's an absurd insinuation".

Op, I found it! You can watch it here
http://www.gulufuture.com/blair-mass-distraction.htm
Just click the picture of Bush under the heading TRANSATLANTIC FUMBLING.

Now, go back up and review the links, and then determine for yourself just
how absurd it actually is.

[EagleEye]

"EagleEye" <eagl...@omega.org> wrote in message

news:7lrMb.3336$1K1....@news20.bellglobal.com...

Now, shall we post the video showing how Bush reacted, and what he did, when
told by Andrew Card that hyjacked terrorist planes had impacted the World
Trade Center and that America was under attack?

Or how about the one at the town meeting where he claimed to have seen the
first plane strike on a TV monitor just before he went into the Sarasota
classroom, and concluded that whoever it was "must be a bad pilot".

I tell you, it's not looking good for
Bush/Cheney/Rove/Feith/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Abrams/Ashcroft/Tenet/Rice/Powell,
and whoever heads the FBI.

[EagleEye]

"George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message

news:bttfsf$vp0$0...@pita.alt.net...

I'm sure about all of those, but yes, I do believe that Clinton had
foreknowledge of and allowed at least SOME of those attacks to occur.

He most certainly was aware that there were multiple bombs found in the
Oklahoma City Federal Murrah Building, which could not have been destroyed
as it was by a single truck with fertilizer. The FBI hushed that one up, and
carted away the evidence. Shortly thereafter, Clinton passed a new piece of
anti-Terror legislation authorizing the death penalty for acts of terrorism.

The other WTC bombing also has a veil of suspicion around it.

And I guess the best evidence for 9/11 is the demolition of the towers,
particularly WTC7 which was not hit by any plane, and which even FEMA
concluded was highly unlikely to have collapsed as a result of fire.

There is just SOOOOOO much evidence that frankly, it's hard to know where to
start.

Did you know the FBI willfully quashed any further investigation into those
Arabs who were taking flying lessons, and that shortly after taking office,
Bush passed a Presidential Directive prohibiting any investigation into Bin
Laden or alQuaeda operatives identified on US soil, under threat of
imprisonment?

Did you know that Bush Sr. was meeting with Osama's brother when the attacks
were occuring, or that General Ahmed, head of the ISI - ahh never mind.

In one ear and out the other. You simply cannot allow yourself to be open
minded enough to even consider the possibility that your government could do
such things, and that they play both sides of the fence, good AND evil at
the same time.

[George]

Clearly, you are one of the tinfoil-hat set.

"EagleEye" <eagl...@omega.org> wrote in message

news:OMrMb.3339$1K1....@news20.bellglobal.com...

[Eagle Eye]

In article <bttmin$bbj$0...@pita.alt.net>

George <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:
>Clearly, you are one of the tinfoil-hat set.
>
>"EagleEye" <eagl...@omega.org> wrote in message
>news:OMrMb.3339$1K1....@news20.bellglobal.com...

[crackpot nonsense snipped]

At least that nutjob from omega.org knows not to top-post
one line, leaving a hundred lines of quoted text.

But, if you can convince him to change his pseudonym, I'll forgive
you. (I was using the nickname "Eagle Eye" for years before he
came along, spewing his kooky bullshit.)

=====
EE

Latine loqui coactus sum.

[Ruben Rodriguez]

"George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message news:<bttdru$s7q$0...@pita.alt.net>...

> "Ruben Rodriguez" <WhereWa...@netscape.net> wrote in message

> news:a8e21b37.04011...@posting.google.com...

> > Wesley Clark came THIS close to calling your monkey a liar. Be sure
> > to watch 60 Minutes. You might discover that the search for Saddam's
> > WMD on Mars is pointless.
>
> And the America people are very close to swinging a baseball bat to beat the
> shit you call brains out of your entire Party for being part of that filth.

You're not CRYING, are you? There's no crying in politics. Sheesh.

--
"By the time he returns to the White House in early September, Bush
will have spent almost two months of his presidency at the ranch."
-Houston Chronicle, 8/8/01

08 May 2001

President Bush May 8 directed Vice President Dick Cheney to coordinate
development of U.S. government initiatives to combat terrorist attacks
on the United States...

Cheney will lead a new task force to address terrorist threats and
will report to Congress by October 1, after a review by the National
Security Council.

http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/01050878.htm

"In his final budget request for the fiscal year 2003 submitted on
Sept. 10 to the budget director, Mitchell E. Daniels Jr., the attorney
general called for spending increases in 68 programs, none of which
directly involved counterterrorism. Upgrading the F.B.I.'s computer
system, one of the areas in which he sought an increase, is relevant
to combating terrorism, though Mr. Ashcroft did not defend it on that
ground.

But in his Sept. 10 submission to the budget office, Mr. Ashcroft did
not endorse F.B.I. requests for $58 million for 149 new
counterterrorism field agents, 200 intelligence analysts and 54
additional translators.

Mr. Ashcroft proposed cuts in 14 programs. One proposed $65 million
cut was for a program that gives state and local counterterrorism
grants for equipment, including radios and decontamination suits and
training to localities for counterterrorism preparedness."
-New York Times, 2/28/02

[George Spelvin]

You are the only hate-speaker around here. MoveOn.org did not run the
ad as the RNC lied about (and you enthusiastically believed). Facts are
a bitch George. Deal with it.

[George Spelvin]

George wrote:
>
> You ugly bastard.
>
> You have no right to compare the man who ordered the deliberate murder of
> TEN MILLION PEOPLE to any American President.

You have no right to tell a victim of Hitler anything (actually you do
have the right--as does everyone, but not any moral credibility)!

No one is equating Bush with the genocidal behavior of a Hitler.
However, if you study war and propaganda THOSE comparisons are
alarmingly similar.

Your hatred for all who speak the truth is putrid.

[schumy]

"George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message news:<btoi2n$g1d$0...@pita.alt.net>...

> "George Spelvin" <spe...@everywhere.edu> wrote in message
> news:3FFD9ACC...@everywhere.edu...
> > The lying, right-wing hypocrites are at it again. This time they are
> > misleading the public by falsely accusing MoveOn.org of utilizing the
> > favorite tactics of the RNC.
>
> Moveon.org are lying cocksuckers.
>
> These fuckers OWN that website.
>
> These fucking asslickers TOTALLY control what appears on that website.
> NOBODY BUT THEM CONTROLS IT!
>
> These cocksucking, fucking, cunts deliberately displayed what is clearly
> hate speech appear on their website.
>
> THEY and only THEY are responsible for saying that Bush is Hitler.
>

> And come next November, the people are going to remember this. I promise
> you!
>
> > ___________________________________________
> > Monday, Jan. 5, 2004
> >
> > ADS ATTACKED BY RNC CHAIRMAN
> > ARE NOT MOVEON.ORG VOTER FUND ADS
> > MoveOn.org Voter Fund Regrets Screening Process Allowed Ads to Slip
> > Through
> >
> > Statement by Wes Boyd, Founder of MoveOn.org Voter Fund:
> >
>
> Fuck this lying Bush-hating asshole with a hot branding iron up the ass.

hMMM - SO angry......

you're a spoiled brat- like most conservatives.

[Ashland Henderson]

Interesting to see what passes for rational thought on the far right.

[Leland Milton Goldblatt PhD]

George Bush is a satanic, sadistic, brutal monster. Compared to George
Bush, Adolf Hitler was a true gentleman! George W. Bush in the year
2000, coupled with the invasion of Iraq, changed all that, revealing
how easily Americans can be manipulated, how willing they are to be
lied to, and how vacuous the freedoms of speech and press have become
when the bulk of information is filtered through corporate-controlled
media that profit from jingoism, propaganda and dishonesty. But,
perhaps most disturbingly, these events demonstrated that even though
the words "freedom, democracy and human rights" are chanted like
mantras by political leaders, many Americans have apparently welcomed,
or at the very least are blissfully unconcerned about, the erosion of
freedom, the abuse of human rights, and the nation"s growing
transformation from a democracy into a neo-fascist dictatorship.

this phenomenon in the context of American efforts to allegedly
install "democracy" in Iraq (Iraqi Democracy or Our Iraqi Democracy,
12/1/03) by pointing out that the majority of Iraq"s population are
from the Shiite sect of Islam, and a truly democratic vote would
undoubtedly place their representatives into power. This could,
Bourke explains, eventually lead to the establishment of a
"fundamentalist Islamic state." Yet, despite all the Bush
dictatorship"s pretensions about the Iraqi war bringing "democracy to
the region," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has flatly stated that
no government in Iraq, even a democratically elected one, will be
permitted to install an Islamic state.

After Rumsfeld revealed that the desire to promote democracy in Iraq
was basically a lie, another "justification" for the war became the
need to defend "human rights." Clearly Saddam Hussein was a brutal
dictator who maintained power through the use of fear, torture,
disappearances and mass murders. But he was just one of many such
dictators, some of whom are still in power and supported by the United
States.
The reality is that it was not the violation of human rights that
disturbed the neo-fascist ideologies of the Bush dictatorship, but the
fact that Hussein had simply exhausted his usefulness. It is
particularly revealing that the demonization of Hussein came after he
was no longer needed as an American ally, just as, under the first
Bush regime, the demonization of dictator Manuel Noriega, and the
subsequent invasion of Panama, occurred only after Noriega was no
longer needed as an American ally. Prior to this, the human rights
violations committed by both these men were routinely ignored, and
sometimes welcomed. As I reported in a previous PRAVDA article
(Politics of Assassination, 10/2/03), the CIA had on at least one
occasion even turned over to Hussein a list of suspected communists
with the knowledge that those on the list would be brutally tortured
and executed.

It was also revealing that the invasion of Panama conveniently came at
a time when Americans were outraged about the billions of tax dollars
they would be forced to pay to bail out defunct "savings and loans"
companies, whose financial practices had resulted in the unjust
enrichment of the few, and the loss of life savings for the many. It
is equally revealing that the invasion of Iraq came while many, if not
the majority of, Americans, felt that the corrupt appointment of
George W. Bush to the presidency had undermined democracy, and that
his inept handling of the economy was resulting in massive job losses
for the poor and middle-class, while the rich were benefitting from
"tax cuts."

In addition, America's alleged "respect" for human rights continues to
be a lie, since one of the largest terrorist training camps in the
world, the School of the Americas, which is located within the
boundaries of the United States, still trains murderers, torturers and
rapists whose atrocities, primarily throughout Central and South
America, make the number of people killed by Al-Qaeda and other
terrorist groups pale in comparison. Ironically (or perhaps not
ironically) Manuel Noriega was a graduate of this "school."

Of course all of the issues and facts discussed above are not "deep,
dark secrets." But they also are not items Americans are likely to
see or hear while watching or listening to news broadcasts from
corporate-controlled media. These media are still licking their
collective lips over the ratings and profits windfall sired by the
Iraqi war, and are certainly not going to report upon anything that
will prevent the Bush dictatorship from engaging in more wars and
invasions in the future. So it has become the province of
fictionalized dramas to expose what the jingoistic "news" media want
hidden.

One example is the medical drama ER (short for "Emergency Room"). In
recent episodes an American doctor traveled to a war-torn African
country to provide medical services for the humanitarian organization
Doctors Without Borders. When asked why the American government's
alleged concern for human rights did not extend to Africa, he sadly
remarked, "They've got no oil." Another aid worker later remarked
that she was astonished that Americans were not "rioting in the
streets" in protest of the deceptions that led to the Iraqi war.

Although "rioting in the streets" would undoubtedly bring more
political repression, courtesy of America's megalomaniacal Attorney
General John Ashcroft and his so-called "Justice Department" (those
who saw the videotaped abuses inflicted on post 9/11 detainees clearly
know what this means), the lack of outrage in America against the
lies, hypocrisy and bloodlust of the Bush dictatorship, and those who
support it, is frightening. It would seem that all Americans, but
particularly those with children

Shalom,
---Prof. Leland Milton Goldblatt, Ph.D. ®

Reverend Chancellor Leland Milton Goldblatt Ph.D. ED.D. M.F.A, D.Div.
M.Theo .
Copyright © 2004

http://www.prof.faithweb.com
http://drgoldblatt.blogspot.com/
http://www.voxfux.com
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
http://www.bushflash.com/nazi.html
(773) 731-1100

"George Bush is a satanic, sadistic, brutal monster.
Compared to George Bush, Adolf Hitler was a true gentleman."

[Chris the Liberal]

"George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message

<trivia deleted>

George, you forget that Asshole Republicans scream
TREASON whenver anyone does not bend over to kiss GWB's ass.
So who's spreading hate.
And Hitler???
When GWB implements his "airline information plan" he will have
more personal information about everyone than Hitler EVER HAD.
This is just another move toward thought control. Just like
Hitler, he lies to the people, feels no necessity whatsoever
to tell the truth to the public. Come to think about it, now
that you've brought it up, the comparison is not too inaccurate.
Course I can understand why you would go bannanas...

[George]

"George Spelvin" <spe...@everywhere.edu> wrote in message

news:40033537...@everywhere.edu...

>
>
> George wrote:
> >
> > You ugly bastard.
> >
> > You have no right to compare the man who ordered the deliberate murder
of
> > TEN MILLION PEOPLE to any American President.
>
> You have no right to tell a victim of Hitler anything (actually you do
> have the right--as does everyone, but not any moral credibility)!

I have every right to tell that asshole what I think of him.

>
> No one is equating Bush with the genocidal behavior of a Hitler.
> However, if you study war and propaganda THOSE comparisons are
> alarmingly similar.

YES YOU ARE. Did you see the videos in question? I did.

>
> Your hatred for all who speak the truth is putrid.

ESAD.

[George]

Even stupid Pravda-contributing assholes like you are entitled to your
opinion. However, your post has been archived and will be forwarded to the
appropriate organizations that track hate speech and defamation in public
forums. The world at large needs to know that vicious, hate-filled clowns
like you exist.

And I also see why your three ex-wives dumped you. You must be impossible
to live with. What's the betting pool for when your current wife kicks your
skinny ass out of her house?

You (with this hate-speech rant) are the perfect example of why liberals are
not-qualified to lead this country. Thank you for proving Bob Just right.

"Members and front organizations must continually embarrass, discredit and
degrade our critics. When obstructionists become too irritating, label them
as fascist, or Nazi or anti-Semitic .... The association will, after enough
repetition, become "fact" in the public mind."
--Communist Party, Moscow Central Committee 1943

PS - About that fake picture of you with George Ryan (indicted crook) and
Fidel Castro (certified communist monster).... You fit right in! With
either!

"Leland Milton Goldblatt PhD" <lelandmilt...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:e87f6743.04011...@posting.google.com...

[George]

"George Spelvin" <spe...@everywhere.edu> wrote in message

news:4003344A...@everywhere.edu...

Guffaw.

They ADMITTED it, you dolt!

[George]

"Chris the Liberal" <Cogni...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5d75753.04011...@posting.google.com...

> "George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message
>
> <trivia deleted>
>
> George, you forget that Asshole Republicans scream

I forget nothing. I certainly do not forget the hate speech that pours out
of the yaps of liberal Democrats.

> TREASON whenver anyone does not bend over to kiss GWB's ass.

You are a traitor if you supported an enemy government. You are a traitor
if you gave him aid and comfort, and adhered to his cause. FOR WHAT EVER
THE REASON, even if the reason is that you didn't like the results of the
last election.

So, as the shoe fits, WEAR IT!

> So who's spreading hate.

You are.

> And Hitler???
> When GWB implements his "airline information plan" he will have
> more personal information about everyone than Hitler EVER HAD.

Has Bush sent anybody to Auschwitz?

> This is just another move toward thought control.

Has Bush sent anybody to Treblinka?

>Just like
> Hitler, he lies to the people, feels no necessity whatsoever
> to tell the truth to the public. Come to think about it, now
> that you've brought it up, the comparison is not too inaccurate.

Has Bush sent SIX MILLION JEWS to death camps?

> Course I can understand why you would go bannanas...

Seeya on the barricades, stupid....

[George]

"schumy" <sch...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:6a2ad276.04011...@posting.google.com...

Damn straight!

>
> you're a spoiled brat- like most conservatives.

You eat shit, like most liberals.

[George]

"Ashland Henderson" <macea...@astound.net> wrote in message
news:441d41d1.04011...@posting.google.com...

Yawn.

Up yours, Henderson.

[Harry Selby]

That is a flat out lie. MoveOn.org issued a statement calling the RNC
on its lie.

So you can only make a point by lying? How pathetic.

Here is their response, proving that they admitted no such thing:

Monday, Jan. 5, 2004

ADS ATTACKED BY RNC CHAIRMAN
ARE NOT MOVEON.ORG VOTER FUND ADS
MoveOn.org Voter Fund Regrets Screening Process Allowed Ads to Slip
Through

Statement by Wes Boyd, Founder of MoveOn.org Voter Fund:

The Republican National Committee and its chairman have falsely accused
MoveOn.org of sponsoring ads on its website which compare President Bush
to Adolf Hitler. The claim is deliberately and maliciously misleading.

During December the MoveOn.org Voter Fund invited members of the public
to submit ads that purported to tell the truth about the President and
his policies. More than 1,500 submissions from ordinary Americans came
in and were posted on a web site, bushin30seconds.org, for the public to
review.

None of these was our ad, nor did their appearance constitute
endorsement or sponsorship by MoveOn.org Voter Fund. They will not
appear on TV. We do not support the sentiment expressed in the two
Hitler submissions. They were voted down by our members and the public,
who reviewed the ads and submitted nearly 3 million critiques in the
process of choosing the 15 finalist entries.

We agree that the two ads in question were in poor taste and deeply
regret that they slipped through our screening process. In the future,
if we publish or broadcast raw material, we will create a more effective
filtering system.

Contrast this with the behavior of the RNC and its allies when
supporters of President Bush used TV ads morphing the face of Sen. Max
Cleland (D-GA) into that of Osama Bin Laden during the 2002 Senate race.

MoveOn.org and the MoveOn.org Voter Fund exist to bring the public into
the political process and produce a more fact-based election process. We
regret that the RNC doesn’t seem to embrace the same goals.

[George]

"Harry Selby" <hse...@mail.edu> wrote in message
news:40040C88...@mail.edu...

Question: Did moveon.org have a video on their website that morphed Hitler
into Bush?

Yes. They admitted it:

"We agree that the two ads in question were in poor taste and deeply regret
that they slipped through our screening process."

>

> So you can only make a point by lying? How pathetic.

Hey! They admitted that their website had two ads morphing Hitler into
Bush.

>
> Here is their response, proving that they admitted no such thing:

You can't read it, apparently...

> We agree that the two ads in question were in poor taste and deeply
> regret that they slipped through our screening process. In the future,
> if we publish or broadcast raw material, we will create a more effective
> filtering system.

CASE CLOSED!

[George]

"Ruben Rodriguez" <WhereWa...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:a8e21b37.04011...@posting.google.com...
> "George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message
news:<bttdru$s7q$0...@pita.alt.net>...
> > "Ruben Rodriguez" <WhereWa...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:a8e21b37.04011...@posting.google.com...
> > > Wesley Clark came THIS close to calling your monkey a liar. Be sure
> > > to watch 60 Minutes. You might discover that the search for Saddam's
> > > WMD on Mars is pointless.
> >
> > And the America people are very close to swinging a baseball bat to beat
the
> > shit you call brains out of your entire Party for being part of that
filth.
>
>
> You're not CRYING, are you? There's no crying in politics. Sheesh.

There is only the harsh reality that you democrats are going to have the
shit beat out of you at the polls next November.

[Jack Nichols]

According to the media, Howard Dean is the epitome of the Democratic
activist -he has mobilized the peace movement and he has single-handedly
managed to control the Internet -a delusion which is extremely serious,
compared to past efforts to ridicule a Democrat through the silly suggestion
that Al Gore invented the Internet. Howard Dean's media profile is an
absolute joke and it is safe to say that the only thing that his "peace
activist" Internet savvy profile inspires --on the count of three now --one,
two three...gag!

Reality:
Howard Dean is the biggest con artist in American history since Richard
Nixon. He has promised to take the government out of the hands of special
interest groups and give it back to ordinary voters, yet Howard Dean has
also indicated that it is futile to try to reform the health care system
because Congress will not let him do it. Anybody who takes this idiot
seriously should be in therapy. Clearly, if Howard Dean cannot even reform
the health care system what makes him think that he is in a position to take
the government out of the hands of special interest groups? Perhaps, Howard
Dean ought to define what he means by special interest groups because if he
continues to dole out silly rhetoric through both sides of the mouth, George
Bush will ask him to be his running mate, and Dick Cheney will finally be
able to retire.

First and foremost, the notion that Howard Dean is a peace activist is
absolutely fraudulent. To be sure, Howard Dean publicly opposed attacking
Iraq to set him apart from fellow Democratic, but this feigned opposition
has been repeatedly contradicted by the war hawk that Dean has conveniently
repressed, for the sake of political expediency. Despite the popular
misrepresentation that Howard Dean is a peace activist who opposes war, Dean
even endorsed the Bush doctrine of preemptive war, saying that he would not
rule out using military force to disarm either North Korea or Iran, and that
makes him the biggest warmonger of all. In fact, Howard Dean is as crafty as
Richard Nixon was. Have all the so called, peace activists forgotten Richard
Nixon, the crafty warmonger who wrote The Real Peace to claim John Lennon's
"constituency" after he was assassinated. To be sure, Lennon was not even an
American, but he was the face of the peace movement, and Richard Nixon, the
former master of the hostile takeover, believed that real peace was about
waging and winning wars.

If you are a peace activist and you think that Howard Dean is your man,
watch your back. Like Nixon before him, Howard Dean understands the
distraction that peace advocates can potentially impose, and he thinks he
has discovered a way to hijack their political influence. In particular,
Senator John Kerry is the Democrat with a balanced view about war and peace,
and Howard Dean's effort to create the impression that he is in fact the
architect of the real peace reflects the very same, manifest delusion that
preoccupied Richard Nixon. If you want to know who the real Howard Dean is,
you have to compare his record to that of John Kerry, and then you will
clearly understand the difference between a Democrat and a crafty, political
opportunist.

Who is the real, Howard Dean? The real Howard Dean is best understood
through his regressive and draconian view of the criminal justice system. As
Governor, he underfunded public defense, and poured money into state's
attorneys, police, and corrections. Dean managed to fill the prisons, not
because crime increased, but because the public was treated like it was
always wrong and the state was always right. Howard Dean is one of those
arrogant extremists who thinks that he has the right to be judge, jury and
executioner, and the climate he creates is best described by famed Attorney,
Gerry Spense, who speaks from experience when he says;

"There is a presumption of innocence, not a presumption of guilt, and
everybody in this country has lost his presumption of innocence and goes
into the courtroom, presumed guilty. People who do not have first hand
experience with the justice system might be surprised to note that the
problem appears to be so widespread that anybody who is oblivious to the
fact that miscarriages of justice are very common, is promoting the myth
rather than the reality. The average American in this country cannot get a
fair trial. Ninety-seven per cent of the people charged eventually get
convicted --now that is a frightening statistic. And I will tell you that a
fair trial in this country is the biggest myth that's been laid out on the
American people since the beginning of time."

Howard Dean espouses the philosophy that the government is always right and
ordinary people are always wrong and he is so extreme that he even thinks
that George Bush is a moderate. To use own words, Howard Dean said that, "in
his soul" Bush is a moderate, and that is not at all surprising, because "in
his soul" Howard Dean is John Ashcroft.

Clearly, the campaign of this would-be tyrant who thinks that he is entitled
to control the Democratic Party because the Internet can easily be used to
launder the money of special interest groups, has peaked and is about to
crash. The Iowa caucus is just one week away, and although the conventional
wisdom claims that Howard Dean is still the front-runner, it is only a
matter of time...

Indeed, Howard Dean does not have very much to say lately because he is too
busy trying to deflect one gaffe after another, and the temper of this
wanabe dictator is beginning to show. "I'm a little tired of the 'gotcha'
politics of this campaign," Dean fumed on CNN as his campaign went into full
defense mode, and this is just the beginning. If he is tired now, how does
he expect to survive a race against George Bush? Needless to say, when the
Democrats discover the real Howard Dean, he will not have to, because John
Kerry and John Edwards will re-inherit the votes that belong to them.

As Governor, Howard Dean endorsed the National Governors Association policy
opposing the Kyoto Protocol and recommending that the United States "not
sign or ratify any agreement that would result in serious harm to the US
economy." For environmentalists, EP, under Dean's leadership, came to mean
"Expedite Permits", rather than Environmental Protection and business
leaders were impressed with the way Dean went to bat for them against
Vermont's stringent environmental regulations. Why is Al Gore supporting
this guy?

Dean is supposed to be so popular that he has allegedly raised over $40
million, and the average donation, it is frequently pointed out, is well
under $100. The zeal to create the impression that everybody except Howard
Dean is influenced by special interests, is absolutely preposterous. Special
interest groups are not morons, they use the Internet to direct money to the
candidate of their choice, and they are better at it than anybody else
because they let their money do all the talking. The claim that the people
who are funding Dean's campaign do not expect anything in return, is an
obscene fraud. Howard Dean's entire campaign is based on well orchestrated
lies, distortions and deceptions and they are clearly too deliberate to fail
to betray the pattern and the conduct of lobbyists who spend millions of
dollars, to distort the truth. The claim that Howard Dean's campaign is
driven by grass-root supporters is clearly a desperate fraud, and the
exuberant enthusiasm of those who have taken the bait, is based on the
failure to recognize the real Howard Dean.

According to popular misconception, Howard Dean has used the Internet to
prove that the Republican and Democratic parties are no longer the most
effective ways to organize like-minded people to achieve political ends.
Clearly, the suggestion that Howard Dean has single-handedly upstaged the
Democratic Party is the wet dream of crafty political operatives who have
generated the perception that Howard Dean is essentially a third-party
candidate who has used Internet technology to achieve a takeover of the
Democratic Party. But perception is not reality. Like Richard Nixon, who
collected million dollar, cash donations in brown paper bags to bribe
eyewitnesses who were in a position to expose corruption, Howard Dean should
not brag about the size of his war chest, because if all of his fans are
correct, then the Internet has the power to take away that which it has so
generously granted --the false perception that Howard Dean is John Kerry and
John Edwards, rolled into a single candidate. Howard Dean claims that he is
the only distinct candidate when John Edwards is the only Democratic
candidate who has not spend his entire adult life in politics and John Kerry
is the Democrat with the progressive record that Howard Dean is trying to
hijack, through his so called ability to upstage the Democratic party.

The media loves to promote the wonderful delusion that Howard Dean has used
the Internet to create his own party, his own hierarchy, his own lists, his
own money, and his own organization, but that does not make any sense at
all, Indeed, if that were true, Howard Dean would not even need the
Democratic Party, he could simply use all his so called Internet resources
to run as an Independent.

Howard Dean is on his way out because he has used the resume of Senator John
Kerry to create the false perception that he deserves to be the Democratic
front-runner, and that is clearly counterproductive because a hostile
takeover demands more complicity than Howard Dean has managed to secure.
Gore and Bradley are not enough.

Make no mistake about it, the Internet is not Dr. Frankenstein. The
Republican and the Democratic parties still dominate and the Internet is
merely the docile recipient of Republican and Democratic resources. If the
Republicans, who are always obsessed by the effort to control the media,
think that Dean's hostile takeover of the Democratic party will enhance
George Bush's re-election prospects, they are correct. If they have filled
Dean's head with the fantasy that he can use the Internet to subvert the
will of the entire Democratic party, the arrogance is understood. But a
democracy is not about creating your own party, it's about joining or
leading the party, and Howard Dean is not even a player, in either capacity.

While governor of Vermont, Howard Dean accepted personal pay from special
interests at least five times for speeches and also received at least
$60,000 in checks and pledges from insurers who benefited from a state tax
break,

In 1993, the two insurers sent the governor a gift, described only as a
"package" after Dean met with them to discuss a bill that would provide new
tax breaks and Dean signed the bill into law later that year. Is this the
guy who uses the Internet, to by-pass special interest groups, or are
special interest groups financing dean's campaign?

Despite the fact that Howard Dean spent 2 years trying to manipulate the
people of Iowa, the Des Moines Register endorsed John Edwards and three
other Iowa newspapers endorsed Massachusetts Senator John Kerry. Al Gore was
successfully conned into thinking that Howard Dean is a Democrat like John
Kerry and John Edwards, but the people of Iowa are evidently beginning to
appreciate the difference.

http://www.geocities.com/bobeshope/kerry.htm

[Republican Double Standard]

jacknic...@yahoo.com (Jack Nichols) wrote in
news:2de1f58e.04011...@posting.google.com:

Vote Wesley Clark!

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas,
probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on -
shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again."

-George WMD Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

"Don't be fooled again"
-Me, August 1, 2003.

[Tempest]

Jack Nichols wrote:

The question I have for you, Jack, is: Are you going to support Dean if
he wins the nomination?

--
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a
revolutionary act.
- George Orwell

[Ashland Henderson]

"George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message news:<bu0ti1$3ns$0...@pita.alt.net>...

See above quote. Thanks for confirming your lack of rational thought.

[Ruben Rodriguez]

"George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message news:<bu14b2$f4m$0...@pita.alt.net>...

> "Ruben Rodriguez" <WhereWa...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:a8e21b37.04011...@posting.google.com...
> > "George" <spam...@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message
> news:<bttdru$s7q$0...@pita.alt.net>...
> > > "Ruben Rodriguez" <WhereWa...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > > news:a8e21b37.04011...@posting.google.com...
> > > > Wesley Clark came THIS close to calling your monkey a liar. Be sure
> > > > to watch 60 Minutes. You might discover that the search for Saddam's
> > > > WMD on Mars is pointless.
> > >
> > > And the America people are very close to swinging a baseball bat to beat
> the
> > > shit you call brains out of your entire Party for being part of that
> filth.
> >
> >
> > You're not CRYING, are you? There's no crying in politics. Sheesh.
>
> There is only the harsh reality that you democrats are going to have the
> shit beat out of you at the polls next November.

Here's a tissue. Now dry your eyes, princess.

[Mike Walton]

Howard Dean's "organization" fails to manipulate Iowa voters

The media, especially Republican mouthpiece, Judy Woodruff is
repeatedly claiming that "organization" is going to make the
difference in Iowa, as if the organized plot to steal the election
from John Kerry is still a secret. LOL

The streets in Iowa are teeming with youths and not-so-youths in
orange caps and knapsacks, who have come in from out of state to try
to muscle Dr. Dean to victory. Sounds like the same GOP "love-in," the
angry mob that stopped the counting of votes by rushing the doors
outside the office of the Miami-Dade supervisor of elections to steal
the election from Al Gore.

http://www.geocities.com/bobeshope/kerry.htm

[Mr P]

"Mike Walton" <mikewa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d2701d5a.04011...@posting.google.com...

> Howard Dean's "organization" fails to manipulate Iowa voters
>

Asshole Republicans think everybody who disagees with them is hitler ?

So do asshole liberals.

In another thread on alt.impeach.bush, (mini hitler) one of your fellow nut
cases (Roedy Green) wrote:

"Many people and I have shown many parallels with the way Hitler does
things and the way Bush does. Bush seems to have a hard-on hero
worship for the fuhrer, but is not quite up to his hero's level yet."

P

[Republican Double Standard]

"Mr P" <nospam...@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:fkMOb.19138$zj7....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

There is a difference between simply calling someone hitler (as the
conservatives do at every opportunity) and showing actual parallels
between Hitler and Bush (of which there are too many to count).

--
"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed...
managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units...Of the
many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as
the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and
owe equal allegiance to their country." (Colin Powell’s autobiography,
My American Journey, p. 148)

[zepp]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 08:12:59 GMT, "Mr P" <nospam...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

You're putting the cart before the horse there. People disagree with
Putsch because he reminds them of Hitler, not the other way around.
>
>P
>
>

-
"The Seven Deadly Sins:
Wealth without work
Pleasure without conscience
Knowledge without character
Commerce without morality
Science without humanity
Worship without sacrifice
Politics without principle."
- Mahatma Gandhi

Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
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[Republican Double Standard]

zepp <zeppn...@finestplanet.com> wrote in
news:nrrn009s58ank84it...@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 08:12:59 GMT, "Mr P" <nospam...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Mike Walton" <mikewa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:d2701d5a.04011...@posting.google.com...
>>> Howard Dean's "organization" fails to manipulate Iowa voters
>>>
>> Asshole Republicans think everybody who disagees with them is hitler
>> ?
>>
>>So do asshole liberals.
>>
>>In another thread on alt.impeach.bush, (mini hitler) one of your
>>fellow nut cases (Roedy Green) wrote:
>>
>>"Many people and I have shown many parallels with the way Hitler does
>>things and the way Bush does. Bush seems to have a hard-on hero
>>worship for the fuhrer, but is not quite up to his hero's level yet."
>
> You're putting the cart before the horse there. People disagree with
> Putsch because he reminds them of Hitler, not the other way around.
>>

Is this true. I disagreed with Bush long before he started reminding me
of Hitler.

[Julian D.]

On 18 Jan 2004 21:21:44 -0800, mikewa...@yahoo.com (Mike Walton)
wrote:

Never happened.

>http://www.geocities.com/bobeshope/kerry.htm

JD

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence
reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his
chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile
delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also
given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists,
including Al Qaeda members..."
---- Hillary Clinton, Oct 10, 2002

"Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and
tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike?
If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words and all recriminations
would come too late."
-President George W. Bush
January 28, 2003
(Another liberal lie exposed.)

"Members and front organizations must continually embarrass, discredit and degrade our critics.
When obstructionists become too irritating, label them as fascist, or Nazi or anti-Semitic
.... The association will, after enough repetition, become "fact" in the public mind."
--Communist Party, Moscow Central Committee 1943

"This time, I think the Americans are serious.
Bush is not Clinton. I think this is the end."
-Uday Hussein

[Jack Nichols]

Republican Double Standard <bio_dud...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns946FA708A9527bi...@130.133.1.4>...

Howard Dean has faded:

http://reelnews.2ya.com