identity of the Witch-King
Mark Crispin
Witch-King than "Murazor", one that fits within the Tolkien canon.
The Iron Crown chronology has "Murazor" being given the ring at the young
age of 178 (a stripling for a Numenorean), and fading into a Nazgul after
only 252 years of possessing it (aged 430, a typical lifespan). These are
entirely too short intervals for someone of the Line of Elros to have
"continued until every last moment is a weariness."
I believe instead that the Witch-King was Isilmo, son of Tar-Surion and
father of Tar-Minastir.
It was never explained why Isilmo did not inherit the scepter instead of
Tar-Telperien, or why his son Tar-Minastir inherited the scepter from her.
There is the mystery of how Tar-Minastir sent a navy to Lindon in 1700
while Tar-Telperien was still was Queen (until 1731). You decided to cut
40 years from her life to solve the problem. But another explanation is
that Tar-Minastir had acted as crown prince.
Assuming that Isilmo was intentionally passed over 1556 and departed in a
huff for Middle-Earth, he would have arrived at about the time when the
Gwaith-i-Mirdain were forging the Rings of Power.
The War of the Elves and Sauron would not necessarily send off alarm bells
in Isilmo's mind. Sauron could easily have portrayed it as the greedy
Noldor stirring up more rebellion, and thus a decision by the Lord of
Gifts to redistribute the Rings to other, more deserving peoples. Isilmo,
as the rightful (but denied) King of Numenor, would certainly be a
deserving recipient of the chief of the Nine.
Assuming that Isilmo received it shortly after its seizure in 1697 (and
before Sauron's defeat in 1700), he would have been about 350 years old,
which matches his reported age and appearance in LotR. It then took
another 550 or so years for him to fade into a Nazgul, which is an
appropriate interval to overcome someone of the Line of Elros.
A final clue is his name. Note that the Witch-King ends up as the lord of
Minas Morgul, and his city's livery is a "moon disfigured with a ghastly
face of death." This is not merely in mockery of Isildur and Minas Ithil.
It also stands for Isilmo.
Jim Webster
Conrad Dunkerson
news:Pine.WNT.4.50.02061...@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU.
..
> The Iron Crown chronology has "Murazor" being given the ring at the
> young age of 178 (a stripling for a Numenorean), and fading into a
> Nazgul after only 252 years of possessing it (aged 430, a typical
> lifespan). These are entirely too short intervals for someone of
> the Line of Elros to have "continued until every last moment is a
> weariness."
While ICE's character of 'Murazor' can be dismissed out of hand I
don't think his presumed age would have much to do with it. It is
possible that no one would ever become a wraith before the end of
their natural lifespan, but that seems unlikely to me. In any case,
430 years was a longer lifespan than any of the rulers of Numenor
save Elros - hardly typical.
> It was never explained why Isilmo did not inherit the scepter
> instead of Tar-Telperien,
Christopher notes in that passage that there is an indication of
simple primogeniture in LotR itself. This is at variance with the
text of UT (which indicates that a daughter can inherit only if there
are no sons), but as the 'line of rulers' was done along with the work
that became the LotR appendices it makes sense that it would follow
the same rules.
> or why his son Tar-Minastir inherited the scepter from her.
She refused to wed and therefor had no children. Why the scepter
didn't go directly to Isilmo then is not stated, but he could have
been dead and was almost certainly too old to just be starting a
reign (and hence might well have refused the sceptre in favor of his
son).
> There is the mystery of how Tar-Minastir sent a navy to Lindon in
> 1700 while Tar-Telperien was still was Queen (until 1731). You
> decided to cut 40 years from her life to solve the problem. But
> another explanation is that Tar-Minastir had acted as crown prince.
"You"? Just copied from the last time this topic went around?
There are other examples of Numenoreans OTHER than the ruler taking
military action, and as Minastir WAS the apparent heir to the throne
it would not be unreasonable for his aunt to allow (or ASSIGN) him to
lead a fleet.
> A final clue is his name. Note that the Witch-King ends up as the
> lord of Minas Morgul, and his city's livery is a "moon disfigured
> with a ghastly face of death." This is not merely in mockery of
> Isildur and Minas Ithil. It also stands for Isilmo.
Most of this fits neatly together (with a bit of stretching here and
there), but ultimately Tolkien never told us who the WK was and there
is nothing to indicate he even considered Isilmo for the post.
Tamim
snip
> While ICE's character of 'Murazor' can be dismissed out of hand I
> don't think his presumed age would have much to do with it. It is
> possible that no one would ever become a wraith before the end of
> their natural lifespan, but that seems unlikely to me. In any case,
> 430 years was a longer lifespan than any of the rulers of Numenor
> save Elros - hardly typical.
Tar-Telperien lived for 511 years, which is longer than even Elros.
But she was a female so it's not necessarily relevant.
snip
Tamim
snip
> While ICE's character of 'Murazor' can be dismissed out of hand I
> don't think his presumed age would have much to do with it. It is
> possible that no one would ever become a wraith before the end of
> their natural lifespan, but that seems unlikely to me. In any case,
> 430 years was a longer lifespan than any of the rulers of Numenor
> save Elros - hardly typical.
Tar-Telperien lived for 511 years, which is longer than even Elros.
But she was a female so it's not necessarily relevant.
Oops 411. The UT speaks about her exceptionally long life and mentions
that females lived longer. 411 years isn't that long, there were men
apart from Elros who lived longer.