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Craig Dikken

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Apr 2, 2002, 8:13:21 AM4/2/02
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Just out of curiosity, what does your system consist of? I see a lot of
opinions, and bashing going on, but never hear mention of your own
Hi-Fi.....c'mon George, Arny, Howard, Dave, Stewart. I'm curious to see who
follows their own advice (not sure if George qualifies, as I've never quite
seen him give advice). Please George, just tell us what your Hi-Fi is, and
not resort to name calling, or the sort.


Craig Dikken

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Apr 2, 2002, 8:15:57 AM4/2/02
to
Just thought I should correct my typo before I heard about it.....
"Craig Dikken" <craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:i6iq8.161$XR3.1...@rdr1.wms.teleglobe.net...

Craig Dikken

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Apr 2, 2002, 1:24:05 PM4/2/02
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Oh come on now....here's your chance to tell everyone about your audiophile
system....what makes your system, "your system"?


"Craig Dikken" <craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:K8iq8.165$XR3.1...@rdr1.wms.teleglobe.net...

Arny Krueger

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Apr 2, 2002, 2:39:10 PM4/2/02
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"Craig Dikken" <craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:i6iq8.161$XR3.1...@rdr1.wms.teleglobe.net...

> Just out of curiosity, what does your system consist of? I see a

Not much has changed for my systems in the last year or so, since I
previously posted an inventory of my systems.

My main listening room system is still based on NHT 2.5i's driven by
QSC amplifiers and Rane equalizers and crossover drawn from the world
of pro audio, augmented by NHT S1s and S0s for center and surrounds.
The custom 18" Cerwin-Vega "Earthquake" subwoofer, is now over a
quarter-century old and still very adequate. A Pioneer DV-525 spins
the discs and a Sony SDP-E800 or Technics SHAC-500 decodes them. A
Phillips 32" TV handles the video. This system's connection to a
computer was severed because it just wasn't ever used that way.

I still have a NHTPro A10 Studio monitor system augmented by a custom
12" DV-12 subwoofer connected to a computer in the next room, for
high-resolution PCABXing, and other listening and measurement
experiments. The 60 GB P2-500 computer still uses a Card Deluxe for
recording and playback. The NHT-A10-based system also functions as
the monitor system for recording and transcription work. A Rega
Planar 2 with a variety of Shure and Grado cartridges and Apt/Holman
or Conrad-Johnson preamp is used for transcribing LPs. B&K and MXL
microphones are used with Benchmark Media and Rane microphone
preamps.

My office/lab still has two systems. One is hooked to my office
computer via a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card, and is based on a
pair of KEF Q15's driven by a Pioneer RX-255. The other system across
the room is based on some old Paradigm Phantoms driven by a passive
controller, Sony carsound amp and an old Pioneer TX-9100 tuner. The
Paradigm-based system also provides monitoring for the 3/4 GB RAM,
60 GB disk, Athlon 1700+ computer dual-booting Win98 and WinXP, which
I use for my most intensive equipment measurements with a LynxTWO
sound card.


dave weil

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Apr 2, 2002, 3:47:59 PM4/2/02
to

I have a couple of systems:

Living Room:

Denon 2802
Klipsch Cornwalls/Klipsch/KS1/Merak Center Channel
Theta ProGen3/EAD 7000 Transport
Sony CX250 200 Disc changer
Thorens 321/Rega RB250 alternating with Luxman PD121 with the same
arm/Cheap Grado cart for the time being - arm is still being checked
out
Panasonic RV31 DVD player
Pioneer CLD 3070 Laser Disc Player with Hovland Caps
Yamaha T-80 Tuner
Optional SAE 2900 Preamp (used for parametric EQ)
AMD 650 with Turtle Beach Santa Cruz (can be connected to either
system using 30 ft. a run of Symphonic Line AS1 cables)
Various interconnects including Kimber PBJ, Symphonic Line, Discovery
Plus 4s, custom made Discovery cables (unnamed), Radio Shack optical
interconnect, Discovery 1,2,3 speaker cables

Bedroom:

Fisher X202-B tube integrated amp tubed with NOS RCA 7199s and Gold
Aero tubes
SAE 8000 tuner
Turntable borrowed from other system when desired
Nakamichi MB-8 5 disc CD changer
Allison CD8s (recently refoamed and new tweeters installed)
Audiodyne "High Definition Speaker cables", Symphonic Line AS1s)

Music Lab:

Korg DW8000 synthesizer
Chinese made Fender "Tele"
Epiphone Sheraton (first year of remanufacture - 1988 I think)
Yamaha RX5 Drum Machine
Revox B-77 1/2 track reel to reel
TASCAM Porta03 4 track cassette recorder/mixer
Shure SM57, Sennheiser 421 (I think), EV mic (can't remember the model
number)
Fender Deluxe 85 and Sunn SR-25 guitar amps
dbx 400X patch panel
Cakewalk Professional Digital recording program

Unused at the moment:

Pair of Dynaco MK3 monoblocks tubed with matched Gold Aero KT-99s
Dynaco PAS3 Preamp
EICO tube tuner
Merlin EXL111 Speakers (tweeters are blown)
4 Large Advents that need to be rebuilt
dbx Subharmonic sythesizer (currently on loan, as is an old Philips
turntable with the optitouch controls and a homebrew
12AX7/Hovland/ALPS/milspec components)
A prototype Gold Aero phono preamp which needs repair - was going to
be called DP-60 and was a hybrid design
A prototype Gold Aero 2 box linestage, tubed with matched 12AX7s

Assorted software:

2500 LPs, including some 50 half-speed masters and assorted goodies
like the Classic Records release of Ansermet's Royal Ballet
performance of Swan Lake and The Nutcracker Suite. 300-400 classical
titles, the rest rock, jazz, blues, etc.

600 CDs, not including some 100 homemade ones.

A box of cassettes recorded over 30 years, including a smattering of
pre-recorded ones.

A couple of hundred VCR tapes, 50 laserdiscs, and 1 DVD <g>.

5 or 6 10 inch reels, one of which was recorded by Steve Hoffman.

Hope that this satisfies your curiousity.

George M. Middius

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Apr 2, 2002, 3:54:24 PM4/2/02
to

Craig Dikken said:

Hi Mr. Dickin'. So nice of you to include me in your troll.
Reviewing your past contributions on the subject of me, I find
the temperature to be quite hot.

"How about you try to add something of significance to this
NG...."

"I definitely think it's time for an upgrade..."

"I have a feeling that if this were offline, and only Arny, etc.
would see your posts, that it wouldn't be nearly as tantalizing
for you."

"Is this thread from rec.mydaddycanbeatupyourdaddy.opinion ??"

Since you're obviously one of my biggest fans, why do you let
Krooger cum in your mouth?

dave weil

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Apr 2, 2002, 3:59:17 PM4/2/02
to

Oh yeah, forgot the AR 112 powered subwoofer...

...and the 5 or 6 harmonicas <g>

ScottW

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Apr 2, 2002, 4:05:00 PM4/2/02
to

George, You gotta get over this penis envy issue of yours.

ScottW

Arny Krueger

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Apr 2, 2002, 4:26:22 PM4/2/02
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"ScottW" <scot...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3caa1bff.967476281@news...

I don't know if George is more envious of people who have a penis or
people who are still able to cum.

;-)

Eric Kniager

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Apr 2, 2002, 4:44:41 PM4/2/02
to
I'm not a regular yet, but I'll play!

NAD Monitor Series 7600 receiver
a/d/s 1290 speakers
Denon DCD-1500 CD player

Not sure it qualifies as audophile by the standards in this newsgroup, but
heck, it has served me well for the past 15+ years.

Stewart Pinkerton

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Apr 2, 2002, 5:00:28 PM4/2/02
to

Since you seem not to have been paying attention on the dozen or so
previous occasions:

Main System -

Sony CDP715E CD player
Sony ST-S505ES tuner
Michell GyroDec/RB300/A-T OC9
Home-brewed phono headamp, ICs with shunt feedback and passive HF EQ
Home-brewed passive controller using Pickering ruthenium-tipped
relays, a 10kohm Penny & Giles potentiometer and Neutrik XLR
connectors.
Home-brewed 30-0-30 volt smooth dc supply driving relays and headamp
Krell KSA-50 mkII power amp
Apogee Duetta Signature speakers
Interconnects are home-brewed unshielded twisted pair made from 0.6mm
solid-core teflon-coated silver-plated OFHC copper (standard MIL-spec
hookup wire), connectors are Neutrik XLR or Deltron teflon RCA jacks.
Speakers are biwired with Naim NAC-A5 in the bass and the same twisted
pair in the treble, using the resistance of the wire to bypass an
internal switch and resistor in the treble ribbon signal path.
Connectors are gold-clad spades.

I also have Tandberg and Nagra open-reel tape decks which are not
normally hooked up to the system.

The main listening room is 25 x 18 feet with a split-level floor
giving 8 and 9 foot heights. Construction is concrete floor, 13" thick
brick and block walls and heavily joisted ceiling with plasterboard
covering There are four six-foot windows in the long walls with
full-length lined velvet drapes and a heavy wool carpet with thick
rubber underlay. The room is fairly 'dead' with virtually no slap echo
when the drapes are pulled. The speakers are placed five feet from the
end wall and three feet from the side walls, the listening position
being around ten feet from the speakers. I'd describe it as a good
listening room with the necessary symmetry to develop a convincing
stereo image.

AV System -

Sony KV-X2972U TV
Sony SLV-E80 VCR
Pioneer DV-515 DVD player
Home-brewed passive controller with 20kohm ALPS pot hardwired to
Deltron DGS-1 coax cable and Deltron metal-bodied teflon RCA jacks,
with a passive equaliser giving +10dB at 20-30Hz and flat above 90Hz
Audiolab 8000P power amp
Tannoy 633 speakers
Speaker cable is QED 79-strand with gold-clad spades

The TV is placed in a room corner with the speakers about five feet
from the corner and about one foot from the wall. Combined with the
bass boosting equaliser, this gives good 'slam and rumble' for movie
FX but avoids boominess on speech and music, thanks to the sealed box
bass alignment and good power handling of the speakers. Don't try this
with any old speaker unless you want to pop the cones out on the
floor! The system keeps the soundfield reasonably focused on the
screen, avoiding the distractions of surround sound (in my opinion)
while proving surprisingly effective with some 'phase enhanced'
surround effects. It's VERY strange hearing the Enterprise 'woosh'
overhead when you KNOW there are no rear speakers! :-)

Kitchen System -

Sony KVM 1400U TV
Denon TU-260L tuner
Denon DCD-825 CD player
Denon PMA350II amp
Mordaunt-Short MS20 speakers with acoustic resistance in the ports

The kitchen is 24 x 15 feet with a 7'3" beamed ceiling and tiled
floor, so it's horribly live. The speakers are mounted on rigid wall
brackets just below the ceiling and have their ports lightly stuffed
to avoid boom, bass level being restored with some bass lift on the
amp tone controls. Definitely not what I'd call great sound but about
the best I can get in this room!

Computer System -

Soundblaster Live
Rotel RA920AX
Wall-mounted KEF Q15s with lightly stuffed ports.

Surprisingly good sound, and the Uni-Q construction of the KEFs makes
them excellent imaging near-field monitors.

==============================

Now, since you are the one whining about 'discovery' - what's in
*your* system?


p.s. Note how many of the 'subjectivists' give honest replies to your
enquiry, and weight your opinions accordingly.......................

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

trotsky

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Apr 2, 2002, 5:35:51 PM4/2/02
to

Ah yes, the good Christian humor. With the joke being on the Accord.

trotsky

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Apr 2, 2002, 5:41:18 PM4/2/02
to

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:13:21 -0500, "Craig Dikken"
> <craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Just out of curiosity, what does your system consist of? I see a lot of
> >opinions, and bashing going on, but never hear mention of your own
> >Hi-Fi.....c'mon George, Arny, Howard, Dave, Stewart. I'm curious to see who
> >follows their own advice (not sure if George qualifies, as I've never quite
> >seen him give advice). Please George, just tell us what your Hi-Fi is, and
> >not resort to name calling, or the sort.
>
> Since you seem not to have been paying attention on the dozen or so
> previous occasions:
>
> Main System -
>
> Sony CDP715E CD player

crap


> Sony ST-S505ES tuner

crap


> Michell GyroDec/RB300/A-T OC9

decent, made into crap by:

> Home-brewed phono headamp, ICs with shunt feedback and passive HF EQ

Would never pass the DBTs.

> Home-brewed passive controller using Pickering ruthenium-tipped
> relays, a 10kohm Penny & Giles potentiometer and Neutrik XLR

horseshit

> connectors.


XLRs on a passive device--what kind of an idiot would do that?

> Home-brewed 30-0-30 volt smooth dc supply driving relays and headamp

cheesy

> Krell KSA-50 mkII power amp

sux

> Apogee Duetta Signature speakers

better known as Apologees

> Interconnects are home-brewed unshielded twisted pair made from 0.6mm
> solid-core teflon-coated silver-plated OFHC copper (standard MIL-spec
> hookup wire), connectors are Neutrik XLR or Deltron teflon RCA jacks.

would never pass the DBTs

> Speakers are biwired with Naim NAC-A5 in the bass and the same twisted
> pair in the treble, using the resistance of the wire to bypass an
> internal switch and resistor in the treble ribbon signal path.

lame


<snip>

just thought I'd add my two cents

Yustabe Slim

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Apr 2, 2002, 6:45:42 PM4/2/02
to

"Craig Dikken" <craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:K8iq8.165$XR3.1...@rdr1.wms.teleglobe.net...

> Just thought I should correct my typo before I heard about it.....
> "Craig Dikken" <craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:i6iq8.161$XR3.1...@rdr1.wms.teleglobe.net...
> > Just out of curiosity, what does your system consist of? I see a
lot of
> > opinions, and bashing going on, but never hear mention of your own
> > Hi-Fi.....c'mon George, Arny, Howard, Dave, Stewart. I'm curious
to see
> who
> > follows their own advice


Main system:
Fisher 400C PreAmp (tube)
HH Scott 350B tuner (tube)
Jolida JD 603 cd player (tube)
FONS turntable
Grace 707 arm
Grado XTZ cartridge
Pioneer RT 707 reel to reel
Sony 700ES cassette deck
Vandersteen active crossover
Pair of RadioCraftsman 500A monoblocks (tube)
Fisher SA300 power amp (tube)
Vandersteen 4 speakers
A variety of interconnects, from typical generic cables to lower level
Audioquest to homemade (by friends)
Audioquest Digital Interconnect
Audioquest Type 4 speaker cable, w/ spade lugs.


Second system:
Magnavox 650 cd player
Theta Pro Generation DAC
Scott 299D tube integrated amp (tube)
Two pairs of Large Advents (stacked, top one inverted)
generic interconnects
Audioquest (forgot the line name) speaker cable.

Stereo for my tv/VHS/DVD:
Recent cheap run of mill Sony VHS
Magnavox DVD
Magnavox 36" TV
HH Scott 233 integrated amp (tube)
interconnects (homemade by friends)
Audioquest Type 4 speaker cable
one pair of Large Advents


-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Ulimited downloads - 19 servers ==-----

George M. Middius

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Apr 2, 2002, 7:40:25 PM4/2/02
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Yustabe Slim said:

> Fisher 400C PreAmp (tube)
> HH Scott 350B tuner (tube)
> Jolida JD 603 cd player (tube)
> FONS turntable
> Grace 707 arm
> Grado XTZ cartridge

Excellent 'borg-proofing, Art.

Yustabe Slim

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Apr 2, 2002, 7:44:11 PM4/2/02
to

"George M. Middius" <Glan...@ipo.net> wrote in message
news:rqjkau0qp0iiu1hut...@4ax.com...

They are all oriented to the northwest,
to ward off evil spirits.

JW

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Apr 2, 2002, 7:50:47 PM4/2/02
to

"Craig Dikken" <craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:i6iq8.161$XR3.1...@rdr1.wms.teleglobe.net...

I've been *lurking* daily for 5+ years, does that make me a regular?


George M. Middius

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Apr 2, 2002, 8:41:12 PM4/2/02
to

JW said:

> I've been *lurking* daily for 5+ years, does that make me a regular?

I give you permission to post either your system or mine.

MiNe109

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Apr 2, 2002, 8:52:18 PM4/2/02
to
In article <i6iq8.161$XR3.1...@rdr1.wms.teleglobe.net>,
"Craig Dikken" <craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:

LP-12 (Cirkus, Valhalla, Arkiv, Ittok); AR PH3
AR CD1
Linn Majik (preamp only by dealer mod)
LK-100s
Linn Kabers Aktiv

Other stuff:

Nak cassette
H/K CDR 2
Sansui 551
RS LX-4
GE Superadio
NHT A10
AMC CD8
Marantz 2215B as tuner

Stephen

trotsky

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Apr 2, 2002, 11:19:27 PM4/2/02
to

I think "constipated" might be a more apt description.

dave weil

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Apr 2, 2002, 11:42:30 PM4/2/02
to

Oh yeah, forgot the Micromega Stage 5 in the bedroom.

Yustabe Slim

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Apr 3, 2002, 12:11:44 AM4/3/02
to

"dave weil" <dw...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ts6kau8lsik96jb9h...@4ax.com...

Play the blues?

dave weil

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Apr 3, 2002, 12:20:36 AM4/3/02
to
On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 00:11:44 -0500, "Yustabe Slim"
<yusta...@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"dave weil" <dw...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:ts6kau8lsik96jb9h...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:15:57 -0500, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:
>>
>> >Just thought I should correct my typo before I heard about it.....
>> >"Craig Dikken" <craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:i6iq8.161$XR3.1...@rdr1.wms.teleglobe.net...
>> >> Just out of curiosity, what does your system consist of? I see a
>lot of
>> >> opinions, and bashing going on, but never hear mention of your
>own
>> >> Hi-Fi.....c'mon George, Arny, Howard, Dave, Stewart. I'm curious
>to see
>> >who
>> >> follows their own advice (not sure if George qualifies, as I've
>never
>> >quite
>> >> seen him give advice). Please George, just tell us what your
>Hi-Fi is, and
>> >> not resort to name calling, or the sort.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> Oh yeah, forgot the AR 112 powered subwoofer...
>>
>> ...and the 5 or 6 harmonicas <g>
>
>Play the blues?

Why yes I do. I'm a pretty decent harp player. But I'm rusty.

Jason Kau

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Apr 3, 2002, 12:41:27 AM4/3/02
to

I'm not a regular on rec.audio.opinion, but I do post on
rec.audio.high-end fairly often. Here is the list of equipment my
brother, my dad, and I share (we swap around quite a bit).

Loudspeakers:
=============
EPI 202
Hsu Research HSRSW12Va subwoofer
Magneplanar MG-3.3/R
Magneplanar MG-IIA
Paradigm Reference Studio/100 v2
Paradigm Mini-Monitor v3
ProAc Tablette
PSB Century 600i

Amps:
=====
Acurus A200
Dynaco Mrk III's
NAD 2600A
Parasound HCA-1200II
Threshold 400A

Pre-amps:
=========
Audio Research LS-9
Audio Research SP-3
NAD 1300
Parasound PL/D-1500
Threshold SL-10

CD/DVD players:
===============
3xApex AD-600A's
Toshiba SD-2200
Marantz CD-17
Marantz CD-67SE
Yamaha CDC-565
Sony ES model I've forgotten

--
Jason Kau
http://www.cnd.gatech.edu/~jkau

Yustabe Slim

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Apr 3, 2002, 1:09:15 AM4/3/02
to

"dave weil" <dw...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:c74lauofkb1affufq...@4ax.com...

I play bass and sing.
Mostly blues, some r&b and roots rock.
I stay away from standard repertoire.
So many people do it, and most of them
do it better than me. I like doing songs
hardly anyone else does.

Joseph Oberlander

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Apr 3, 2002, 1:20:35 AM4/3/02
to
Yustabe Slim wrote:

> I play bass and sing.
> Mostly blues, some r&b and roots rock.
> I stay away from standard repertoire.
> So many people do it, and most of them
> do it better than me. I like doing songs
> hardly anyone else does.

I like 1920-1940's old-school myself - stuff that never gets played
either. :)

Oh - I am more into singing and playing(woodwinds and reeds). I love
Alto Clarinet for jazz - it just sounds so much better than Alto Sax
IMO. My great love, though is my flute - hook me up to an amplifier
and a couple of effects boxes(at very low settings - just enough to
widen the sound for jazz work and complete with bass and the like)
and I'm happy :)

Yustabe Slim

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Apr 3, 2002, 1:26:51 AM4/3/02
to

"Joseph Oberlander" <josephob...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3CAA9EE2...@earthlink.net...

> Yustabe Slim wrote:
>
> > I play bass and sing.
> > Mostly blues, some r&b and roots rock.
> > I stay away from standard repertoire.
> > So many people do it, and most of them
> > do it better than me. I like doing songs
> > hardly anyone else does.
>
> I like 1920-1940's old-school myself - stuff that never gets played
> either. :)
>

My favorite is Sleepy John Estes

I also like Charlie Patton and the Mississippi Sheiks.

I saw the Mississippi Sheiks, with some of the Chatmans'
still around, in the early 70's.

I like the sound of the old string bands.

Stewart Pinkerton

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Apr 3, 2002, 1:44:56 AM4/3/02
to


Or stuck in an early '70s time warp - depends how you look at it!

Tom

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Apr 3, 2002, 2:03:48 AM4/3/02
to
dave weil wrote:
>
> Music Lab:
>
> Korg DW8000 synthesizer
> Chinese made Fender "Tele"
> Epiphone Sheraton (first year of remanufacture - 1988 I think)
> Yamaha RX5 Drum Machine
> Revox B-77 1/2 track reel to reel
> TASCAM Porta03 4 track cassette recorder/mixer
> Shure SM57, Sennheiser 421 (I think), EV mic (can't remember the model
> number)
> Fender Deluxe 85 and Sunn SR-25 guitar amps
> dbx 400X patch panel
> Cakewalk Professional Digital recording program

Dave - you fucking guitar stud!
Let's hear some of your stuff!
Any mp3's of you wailing on the Tele backed up by your buddy,
Mr. Yamaha?

Tom

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Apr 3, 2002, 2:12:00 AM4/3/02
to
ScottW wrote:
>
> On Tue, 02 Apr 2002 15:54:24 -0500, George M. Middius

> >Since you're obviously one of my biggest fans, why do you let


> >Krooger cum in your mouth?
>
> George, You gotta get over this penis envy issue of yours.


It's not penis envy.


Mouth envy.

Tom

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Apr 3, 2002, 2:13:52 AM4/3/02
to
Eric Kniager wrote:
> a/d/s 1290 speakers


I don't have any 1290's, but I have two pair of 690's.

Tom

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Apr 3, 2002, 2:19:07 AM4/3/02
to
trotsky wrote:
>
> crap

> crap


>
> decent, made into crap by:
>

> horseshit

> cheesy
>
> sux

> better known as Apologees
>
> lame
>

What kind of system does your mommy let you keep in your bedroom,
Mr. DBT Passer ?

Tom

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 2:20:47 AM4/3/02
to
trotsky wrote:

>
> JW wrote:
> > I've been *lurking* daily for 5+ years, does that make me a regular?
>
> I think "constipated" might be a more apt description.


Oh - now when I say that was clever, I'm actually not being sarcastic.

trotsky

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Apr 3, 2002, 7:40:03 AM4/3/02
to

Why, do you want to discuss living arrangements? Or family members?
How about posting a picture of your wife so we can comment on that. Are
you afraid now, Smurfies?

dave weil

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 8:19:14 AM4/3/02
to
On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 01:26:51 -0500, "Yustabe Slim"
<yusta...@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"Joseph Oberlander" <josephob...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:3CAA9EE2...@earthlink.net...
>> Yustabe Slim wrote:
>>
>> > I play bass and sing.
>> > Mostly blues, some r&b and roots rock.
>> > I stay away from standard repertoire.
>> > So many people do it, and most of them
>> > do it better than me. I like doing songs
>> > hardly anyone else does.
>>
>> I like 1920-1940's old-school myself - stuff that never gets played
>> either. :)
>>
>
>My favorite is Sleepy John Estes
>
>I also like Charlie Patton and the Mississippi Sheiks.
>
>I saw the Mississippi Sheiks, with some of the Chatmans'
>still around, in the early 70's.
>
>I like the sound of the old string bands.

I'm a big fan of Mississippi Fred McDowell. A voice like buttah!

dave weil

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 8:26:08 AM4/3/02
to
On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 07:03:48 GMT, Tom <ma...@netsurfshop.com> wrote:

>dave weil wrote:
>>
>> Music Lab:
>>
>> Korg DW8000 synthesizer
>> Chinese made Fender "Tele"
>> Epiphone Sheraton (first year of remanufacture - 1988 I think)
>> Yamaha RX5 Drum Machine
>> Revox B-77 1/2 track reel to reel
>> TASCAM Porta03 4 track cassette recorder/mixer
>> Shure SM57, Sennheiser 421 (I think), EV mic (can't remember the model
>> number)
>> Fender Deluxe 85 and Sunn SR-25 guitar amps
>> dbx 400X patch panel
>> Cakewalk Professional Digital recording program
>
>
>
>Dave - you fucking guitar stud!

Hardly. More like a guitar dud.

>Let's hear some of your stuff!

I just fuck around. I've really just assembled most of this equipment
in the last year and and still learning.

I *have* had the Epiphone since it was brand new though.

>Any mp3's of you wailing on the Tele backed up by your buddy,
>Mr. Yamaha?

Nope. And you don't want to hear it either, or *you'll* be the one
wailing. I'm really only a rudimentary guitarist (or keyboard player
for that matter). I play a pretty mean mouth harp though. It's the one
thing that I can do fairly well.

I think my problem with the guitar is that I'm left-handed, but I play
guitar right-handed. I think that there's a problem with putting hand
and brain together because of it. I chalk up the keyboard problem to
being an unwilling child being forced to take 8 years of piano. I
never liked it and I was never good at it either.

Oh yeah, I'm a lousy singer as well...

Howard Ferstler

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 9:53:43 AM4/3/02
to
"Craig Dikken" <craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<i6iq8.161$XR3.1...@rdr1.wms.teleglobe.net>...

> Just out of curiosity, what does your system consist of? I see a lot of
> opinions, and bashing going on, but never hear mention of your own
> Hi-Fi.....c'mon George, Arny, Howard, Dave, Stewart. I'm curious to see who
> follows their own advice (not sure if George qualifies, as I've never quite
> seen him give advice). Please George, just tell us what your Hi-Fi is, and
> not resort to name calling, or the sort.

Hi, Craig,

I have listed my gear on a number of occasions, both here and in my
magazine writings, and am not squeamish in the least about doing so.
However, I do make both small and large changes at times, with some
being near permanent and others being only temporary (review loaners),
and so it is kind of hard for me to pinpoint exactly what my various
systems actually sound like at any given moment. Here is a rundown.

Main system:

Allison IC-20 speakers (left/right)
Custom speaker, using 4 RDL AV-1 minispeakers (center)
Allison Model Four speakers (four surrounds)
Velodyne F1800RII sub (main, surround, LFE channels)
Hsu TN1220 subwoofer (center channel)
Sharp LCD projector (ceiling mounted)
Bretford 8 x 4.5 foot pull-down screen
Onkyo 939 DVD-A player (a review loaner)
Sony 360 DVD player
Pioneer DVL-700 super-combi player
Yamaha DSP-A1 processor amp
AudioControl Phase Coupled Activator (bass synthesizer)
DBX 3BX dynamic-range expander
Rane THX-22 equalizer (main channels)
AudioControl C-131 equalizer (center channel)
Hsu 250-watt power amp (for TN1220)
Carver M500 power amp (main channels)

The main amps on the DSP-A1 power each panel of the center speaker,
while the M500 powers the left and right main speakers. The Yamaha
unit has pre-out connections that allow for this. Various speakers
have replaced the big Allison models at times, including Dunlavy
Cantatas and the Waveform MC/MC.1 combination that also replaced the
big Velodyne sub. Also at times, the Yamaha processor has been
replaced by Lexicon DC-1 and Parasound AVC-2500 processors, using both
the Yamaha amps and an outboard AudioSource Amp One to drive the
speakers. For a while, a Paradigm Servo 15 replaced the big Velodyne,
and I had a B&W ASW2000 working in there for a shorter while, too. Not
too long ago, a Velodyne HGS-15 also temporarily replaced the F1800,
and a Hsu VTF-3 will be doing so in short order. Subs get rotated in
and out on a regular basis. The bass synthesizer and dynamic range
expander are only used with certain pop compact discs and non DD/DTS
movies with weak soundtracks. The Carver M500 is a pre T-Mod unit, by
the way and is now 19 years old. Still works fine.

Middle system:

Modified Allison AL-125 speakers (left/right)
NHT VS-1.2 speaker (center)
Radio Shack minispeakers (four surrounds)
Mitsubishi 45-inch rear-projector TV monitor
SV 16-46PC subwoofer
RCA DVD player
Toshiba VCR
Panasonic VCR
Pioneer 503 combi player
Yamaha DSP-A3090 processor amp
DBX 120 subharmonic bass synthesizer
Hsu optimizer subwoofer equalizer
AudioControl Ten Series III equalizer (main channels)

The components in the middle system will vary, depending upon what
products are on hand to review at the time. For a while, the main
speakers were NHT SB3 models and for a while before that they were
Waveform MC satellites. For a while before that they were Polk RT-35
models and also Atlantic Technology 271 units, as well as a pair of
Coincident Technology Triumph Signatures. I even had a pair of Tannoy
Mercury M2 models doing main-channel duty for a couple of weeks. Prior
to the SV sub, the system had Velodyne HGS-15, HGS-12, FSR-12, and
CT-150 models, plus an Atlantic Technology 272PBM. A Yamaha RX-V3000
replaced the DSP-A3090 for some time, also, and at that time I was
also using a Velodyne CT speaker as a center-rear unit.

Living Room System:

NHT ST4 speakers (left/right)
NHT SC1 speaker (center)
Atlantic Technology T70 speakers (two surrounds)
Samsung 27 inch TV monitor
Panasonic 320 DVD player
Panasonic VCR
Onkyo TX-DS787 receiver (a review loaner)
Velodyne FSR-12 subwoofer

The Velodyne sub was replaced by a Hsu VTF-2 for some time, and will
soon be replaced by a very new VTF-3 test unit. I also had a Velodyne
CT-120 in there for a while. A very nice Yamaha DVD-A player replaced
the Panasonic player for a while, also. Spare units are rotated in and
out of my office at the back of the house, with test items eventually
sent back to the manufacturer, or sometimes purchased. Prior to the
ST4 systems doing work on the left and right channels, I had a pair of
AR Phantom 8.3 systems on duty. I still intend to rotate the systems
occasionally, since I own both and intend to use them as mid-priced
reference units.

I also have a 13-inch Sharp TV in the kitchen.

Howard Ferstler

George M. Middius

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 10:04:29 AM4/3/02
to

Howard "Out of the crypt" Ferstler said:

> I have listed my gear on a number of occasions, both here and in my
> magazine writings, and am not squeamish in the least about doing so.

Where is your consideration for the rest of us, though?



> Allison IC-20 speakers (left/right)
> Custom speaker, using 4 RDL AV-1 minispeakers (center)
> Allison Model Four speakers (four surrounds)

Speakers are 22 years old, note.

> Velodyne F1800RII sub (main, surround, LFE channels)

Ridicously overpriced. Plenty of excellent subs go for under $1K, but
Harold sports one that costs almost $3K.

[automated response from Clerkie attesting to his great shopping
acumen and/or ability to scam manufacturers]

> Hsu TN1220 subwoofer (center channel)
> Sharp LCD projector (ceiling mounted)

Harold, this is a video-centric system. You don't listen to music,
you surround yourself with distortion.


trotsky

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 10:28:59 AM4/3/02
to


What makes it a "super-combi" player, Howie? Why do you describe
equipment as if you were living inside of a comic book?

Tom

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 1:18:27 PM4/3/02
to
trotsky wrote:
>
> Why, do you want to discuss living arrangements? Or family members?
> How about posting a picture of your wife so we can comment on that. Are
> you afraid now, Smurfies?


I'm torn between two respnses to this. Let me know which one
you like better.

(1)
Yeah - I'm real afraid of you, Greg.
You're the eschoolyard ebully.
I wouldn't want you to ebeat me up.

(2)
If you want to comment on pictures,
I could post the nudes of you mom.

Howard Ferstler

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 2:48:33 PM4/3/02
to
George M. Middius <Glan...@ipo.net> wrote in message news:<fa6mauor8hp5kefne...@4ax.com>...

> Howard "Out of the crypt" Ferstler said:
>
> > I have listed my gear on a number of occasions, both here and in my
> > magazine writings, and am not squeamish in the least about doing so.
>
> Where is your consideration for the rest of us, though?
>
> > Allison IC-20 speakers (left/right)
> > Custom speaker, using 4 RDL AV-1 minispeakers (center)
> > Allison Model Four speakers (four surrounds)

> Speakers are 22 years old, note.

They are like fine wine. Actually, the Model Fours are the age you
note and were picked up used, two pair at a time, and very cheap. (One
pair was free; the other cost me a total of $45.) I replaced all the
tweeters with mint-condition units that were only 11 years old (a
total of 8 of them that I had in storage), and refoamed the surrounds
on the woofers. The Fours are extremely wide dispersing, with the two
tweeters on 45-degree, side-angled edge panels and with the woofer
aimed upward, making them ideal surround speakers in a big system. If
they wanted, the user could even pull the rear-facing tweeters and
reverse the hookup leads, for dipolar performance above 2 kHz.

The IC-20 systems I have are only 10 years old, George. They measure
the same as they did when I got my RTA four years ago, and their room
response is flatter than any other systems I have had at the house.
The foam woofer surrounds have been replaced, by the way.



> > Velodyne F1800RII sub (main, surround, LFE channels)

> Ridicously overpriced. Plenty of excellent subs go for under $1K, but
> Harold sports one that costs almost $3K.

The sub is pricy, but the F1800 version only had a list price of $2000
when I purchased it, and I got a good deal, anyway. The current HGS
version is three grand, however. Note that in seveal product reviews
(namely the ones I did on the Hsu TN1220, SVS 16-46PC, and Paradigm
Servo 15), I have indicated that although the big Velodyne ultimately
outpoints those other systems in terms of ultra-clean deep bass, the
difference is inconsequential with just about all program sources, be
they music or movies. Incidentally, I now have a Hsu VTF-3 on hand to
review (I reviewed the smaller VTF-2 some time back for TSS), and it
promises to be a near match for the TN1220, as well as the big
Velodyne, and it costs under a grand. So, yes, George, you can get
some terrific bass performance for under a grand (I ought to know,
because several of the super subs I own are in that cost category),
but absolute purists with fat wallets might appreciate the measureable
edge the big Velodyne models have, if only for the psychological
benefits.

> > Hsu TN1220 subwoofer (center channel)
> > Sharp LCD projector (ceiling mounted)

> Harold, this is a video-centric system. You don't listen to music,
> you surround yourself with distortion.

Well, George I like to think that the system can deal well with both
worlds. The screen rolls up, and so the rig is not cursed with a big
TV monitor jutting out into the room. And of course a screen of that
kind allows you to have a serious center speaker that does not have to
be horizontally oriented at a wildly different height from the
left/right mains. The result is a system that sounds as good as the
program material fed into it.

George, I have not noticed anything yet from you concerning your own
system. Speak up and let us know how terrific your own assembly of
gear is.

Howard Ferstler

Howard Ferstler

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 2:54:45 PM4/3/02
to
trotsky <gsi...@qwestonline.com> wrote in message news:<3CAB1F91...@qwestonline.com>...

I should have been more clear, since it is obvious that people such as
yourself have reading-comprehension problems. I need to dumb down my
material a bit more, I guess.

The player is a DVL-700, and it is super, because it can play CD, DVD,
and LD program sources, and I reviewed it in issue 66 of The Sensible
Sound (Nov/Dec, 1997). It really does not get much use these days,
because good as its LD capabilities are (excellent, actually), it is
no match for my two DVD players with DVD material. Since my LD
collection no longer grows (indeed, it has gotten a bit smaller,
because I have replaced a few laserdiscs with superior DVD versions),
the player does not get a lot of use.

Howard Ferstler

Kenneth Kirkpatrick

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 3:33:36 PM4/3/02
to
dave weil wrote:

>
>
> 5 or 6 10 inch reels, one of which was recorded by Steve Hoffman.
>
> Hope that this satisfies your curiousity.

Please tell me about the open reel tape Steve made! Do you have access to another
reel. Is it 2 track or 4 track. I am drooling. Ken


George M. Middius

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 3:42:07 PM4/3/02
to

Howard "A drop a day keeps the arteries clean" Ferstler said:

> > Speakers are 22 years old, note.

> They are like fine wine.

So much for your idea of preventive medicine.

Kenneth Kirkpatrick

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 4:07:50 PM4/3/02
to
Craig Dikken wrote:

> Just out of curiosity, what does your system consist of? I see a lot of
> opinions, and bashing going on, but never hear mention of your own
> Hi-Fi.....c'mon George, Arny, Howard, Dave, Stewart. I'm curious to see who
> follows their own advice (not sure if George qualifies, as I've never quite
> seen him give advice). Please George, just tell us what your Hi-Fi is, and
> not resort to name calling, or the sort.

Main system:

Tama Star Classic Maple, 5 drum set, Zildian ping ride, Zildian crash, Zildian
medium, Sabian hi hat. Ludwig snare. Various Fender ( Blues Deville) and Crate
tube amps. Tascam TSR 8 multitrack reel to reel, Mackie 24/8 buss board and
monitors, various compressors, reverbs, mikes, Fostex Dat and hard drive
recorders, Teac X2000 stereo reel to reel, etc. Talented friends.

Home system:

vinyl and tube crap, some digital, Italian speakers. Sounds pretty good. Not as
good as main system. :-)


Anil

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 4:21:33 PM4/3/02
to
Craig Dikken <craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>Just out of curiosity, what does your system consist of?

Well, I am reasonably regular in reading, less so in posting. :)

Spendor BC1 speakers
Audiolab 8000S integrated amp
Sony XA20ES cd player
HK Citation 23 tuner
A basic Sony ES cassette deck (rarely used)
Tivoli/Kloss Model One radio

From old days, unused now: Kenwood KD500/Infinity Black Widow table/tonearm.

Basic Radio Shack Gold wires and interconnects.

No headphones, actually I am open to suggestions for "best value" here,
nothing spectacular because they won't be used that often.

-Anil

trotsky

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 4:24:04 PM4/3/02
to


Oh, okay: and can we post the Krueger autopsy photos after that?

Take a look at what's happening in the world, Smurfies: this shit just
keeps on escalating.

trotsky

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 4:28:09 PM4/3/02
to

Howard Ferstler wrote:
>
> trotsky <gsi...@qwestonline.com> wrote in message news:<3CAB1F91...@qwestonline.com>...
> > Howard Ferstler wrote:
> > >
> > > Pioneer DVL-700 super-combi player
>
> > What makes it a "super-combi" player, Howie? Why do you describe
> > equipment as if you were living inside of a comic book?
>
> I should have been more clear, since it is obvious that people such as
> yourself have reading-comprehension problems. I need to dumb down my
> material a bit more, I guess.
>
> The player is a DVL-700, and it is super, because it can play CD, DVD,
> and LD program sources,


If it can't pass DTS, it isn't worth jack cheese.

Goofball_star_dot_etal

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 6:01:42 PM4/3/02
to
On Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:13:21 -0500, "Craig Dikken"
<craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:

>Just out of curiosity, what does your system consist of?

I use any old rubbish, note.

Audiophiles give me the willies, note.

George M. Middius

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 6:15:51 PM4/3/02
to

Goofball_star_dot_etal said:

> Audiophiles give me the willies, note.

Just imagine how they feel about tobacco-stained hobbits, note.

Tom

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 6:29:41 PM4/3/02
to
trotsky wrote:
>
> Tom wrote:
> >
> > trotsky wrote:
> > >
> > > Why, do you want to discuss living arrangements? Or family members?
> > > How about posting a picture of your wife so we can comment on that. Are
> > > you afraid now, Smurfies?
> >
> > I'm torn between two respnses to this. Let me know which one
> > you like better.
> >
> > (1)
> > Yeah - I'm real afraid of you, Greg.
> > You're the eschoolyard ebully.
> > I wouldn't want you to ebeat me up.
> >
> > (2)
> > If you want to comment on pictures,
> > I could post the nudes of you mom.
>
> Oh, okay: and can we post the ....

SCORE!

Hey - it's fun playing in your game where
everything's fair.

trotsky

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 7:07:57 PM4/3/02
to


Cool, so now you approve of the dead kid references! Kudos.

Craig Dikken

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 7:41:36 AM4/3/02
to
Well, if you were to look at the reason for my remarks, you'd quickly see
who the Middiot is. Maybe you should review your 100's of irrelevant
postings before commenting on anyone else's.

So, what does your system consist of?

"George M. Middius" <Glan...@ipo.net> wrote in message

news:oc6kausjagejchj59...@4ax.com...


>
>
> Craig Dikken said:
>
> > Just out of curiosity, what does your system consist of? I see a lot of
> > opinions, and bashing going on, but never hear mention of your own
> > Hi-Fi.....c'mon George, Arny, Howard, Dave, Stewart. I'm curious to see
who
> > follows their own advice (not sure if George qualifies, as I've never
quite
> > seen him give advice). Please George, just tell us what your Hi-Fi is,
and
> > not resort to name calling, or the sort.
>

> Hi Mr. Dickin'. So nice of you to include me in your troll.
> Reviewing your past contributions on the subject of me, I find
> the temperature to be quite hot.
>
> "How about you try to add something of significance to this
> NG...."
>
> "I definitely think it's time for an upgrade..."
>
> "I have a feeling that if this were offline, and only Arny, etc.
> would see your posts, that it wouldn't be nearly as tantalizing
> for you."
>
> "Is this thread from rec.mydaddycanbeatupyourdaddy.opinion ??"

Craig Dikken

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 2:53:29 PM4/3/02
to

Yes George, now it's your turn to tell us about your system....there have
been some pretty good ones so far, and a couple very long lists. I can only
imagine the $$$ spent to collect all these components.

"George M. Middius" <Glan...@ipo.net> wrote in message

news:fa6mauor8hp5kefne...@4ax.com...

Craig Dikken

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 7:38:53 AM4/3/02
to
Rotel RSP-1066 pre/pro
Rotel RMB-1095 amp
B&W 603s3 mains
B&W 602s3 used as center
B&W 601s2's for rear
Def Tech PF15TL sub
Rotel RCD-971 cdp
Cambridge Audio DVD300
36" inch Toshiba Cinema series TV


"Stewart Pinkerton" <a...@borealis.com> wrote in message
news:3caa280a...@news.fsnet.co.uk...


> On Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:13:21 -0500, "Craig Dikken"
> <craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>

> >Just out of curiosity, what does your system consist of? I see a lot of
> >opinions, and bashing going on, but never hear mention of your own
> >Hi-Fi.....c'mon George, Arny, Howard, Dave, Stewart. I'm curious to see
who
> >follows their own advice (not sure if George qualifies, as I've never
quite
> >seen him give advice). Please George, just tell us what your Hi-Fi is,
and
> >not resort to name calling, or the sort.
>

> Since you seem not to have been paying attention on the dozen or so
> previous occasions:
>
> Main System -
>
> Sony CDP715E CD player
> Sony ST-S505ES tuner
> Michell GyroDec/RB300/A-T OC9
> Home-brewed phono headamp, ICs with shunt feedback and passive HF EQ
> Home-brewed passive controller using Pickering ruthenium-tipped
> relays, a 10kohm Penny & Giles potentiometer and Neutrik XLR
> connectors.
> Home-brewed 30-0-30 volt smooth dc supply driving relays and headamp
> Krell KSA-50 mkII power amp
> Apogee Duetta Signature speakers
> Interconnects are home-brewed unshielded twisted pair made from 0.6mm
> solid-core teflon-coated silver-plated OFHC copper (standard MIL-spec
> hookup wire), connectors are Neutrik XLR or Deltron teflon RCA jacks.
> Speakers are biwired with Naim NAC-A5 in the bass and the same twisted
> pair in the treble, using the resistance of the wire to bypass an
> internal switch and resistor in the treble ribbon signal path.
> Connectors are gold-clad spades.
>
> I also have Tandberg and Nagra open-reel tape decks which are not
> normally hooked up to the system.
>
> The main listening room is 25 x 18 feet with a split-level floor
> giving 8 and 9 foot heights. Construction is concrete floor, 13" thick
> brick and block walls and heavily joisted ceiling with plasterboard
> covering There are four six-foot windows in the long walls with
> full-length lined velvet drapes and a heavy wool carpet with thick
> rubber underlay. The room is fairly 'dead' with virtually no slap echo
> when the drapes are pulled. The speakers are placed five feet from the
> end wall and three feet from the side walls, the listening position
> being around ten feet from the speakers. I'd describe it as a good
> listening room with the necessary symmetry to develop a convincing
> stereo image.
>
>
>
> AV System -
>
> Sony KV-X2972U TV
> Sony SLV-E80 VCR
> Pioneer DV-515 DVD player
> Home-brewed passive controller with 20kohm ALPS pot hardwired to
> Deltron DGS-1 coax cable and Deltron metal-bodied teflon RCA jacks,
> with a passive equaliser giving +10dB at 20-30Hz and flat above 90Hz
> Audiolab 8000P power amp
> Tannoy 633 speakers
> Speaker cable is QED 79-strand with gold-clad spades
>
> The TV is placed in a room corner with the speakers about five feet
> from the corner and about one foot from the wall. Combined with the
> bass boosting equaliser, this gives good 'slam and rumble' for movie
> FX but avoids boominess on speech and music, thanks to the sealed box
> bass alignment and good power handling of the speakers. Don't try this
> with any old speaker unless you want to pop the cones out on the
> floor! The system keeps the soundfield reasonably focused on the
> screen, avoiding the distractions of surround sound (in my opinion)
> while proving surprisingly effective with some 'phase enhanced'
> surround effects. It's VERY strange hearing the Enterprise 'woosh'
> overhead when you KNOW there are no rear speakers! :-)
>
>
>
> Kitchen System -
>
> Sony KVM 1400U TV
> Denon TU-260L tuner
> Denon DCD-825 CD player
> Denon PMA350II amp
> Mordaunt-Short MS20 speakers with acoustic resistance in the ports
>
> The kitchen is 24 x 15 feet with a 7'3" beamed ceiling and tiled
> floor, so it's horribly live. The speakers are mounted on rigid wall
> brackets just below the ceiling and have their ports lightly stuffed
> to avoid boom, bass level being restored with some bass lift on the
> amp tone controls. Definitely not what I'd call great sound but about
> the best I can get in this room!
>
>
>
> Computer System -
>
> Soundblaster Live
> Rotel RA920AX
> Wall-mounted KEF Q15s with lightly stuffed ports.
>
> Surprisingly good sound, and the Uni-Q construction of the KEFs makes
> them excellent imaging near-field monitors.
>
> ==============================
>
> Now, since you are the one whining about 'discovery' - what's in
> *your* system?
>
>
> p.s. Note how many of the 'subjectivists' give honest replies to your
> enquiry, and weight your opinions accordingly.......................
>
> --
>
> Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering


Yustabe Slim

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 8:49:01 PM4/3/02
to

"dave weil" <dw...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:im0maukirn8u6h7do...@4ax.com...

Maybe its that you have a natural aversion to instruments that
require playing lots of chords. I have such an aversion. I do
much better with instruments that play lots of scales.

-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
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Howard Ferstler

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 10:16:04 PM4/3/02
to
trotsky wrote:

> > > What makes it a "super-combi" player, Howie? Why do you describe
> > > equipment as if you were living inside of a comic book?

> > I should have been more clear, since it is obvious that people such as
> > yourself have reading-comprehension problems. I need to dumb down my
> > material a bit more, I guess.
> >
> > The player is a DVL-700, and it is super, because it can play CD, DVD,
> > and LD program sources,

> If it can't pass DTS, it isn't worth jack cheese.

It had no problems with any of the DTS laserdiscs I tried on
it, and it is a very good laserdisc player. (We know how you
lionize those DTS laserdiscs.) As for DTS DVD material, all
of my regular DVD players can deal with it quite well
enough.

You are still obsessed with DTS, aren't you? Well, DTS is
very good, but so is Dolby Digital, at least at 448 kbps.
Indeed, I have had a chance to compare the DD, DTS, and
DVD-A tracks on a number of releases. All very good - and
all pretty much the same sounding, unless obvious mixing
tricks had been applied. In most cases, this meant that the
DVD-A tracks sounded different from the DD and DTS tracks,
which always sounded the same.

Howard Ferstler

trotsky

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 10:39:19 PM4/3/02
to

Howard Ferstler wrote:
>
> trotsky wrote:
>
> > > > What makes it a "super-combi" player, Howie? Why do you describe
> > > > equipment as if you were living inside of a comic book?
>
> > > I should have been more clear, since it is obvious that people such as
> > > yourself have reading-comprehension problems. I need to dumb down my
> > > material a bit more, I guess.
> > >
> > > The player is a DVL-700, and it is super, because it can play CD, DVD,
> > > and LD program sources,
>
> > If it can't pass DTS, it isn't worth jack cheese.
>
> It had no problems with any of the DTS laserdiscs I tried on
> it, and it is a very good laserdisc player. (We know how you
> lionize those DTS laserdiscs.) As for DTS DVD material, all
> of my regular DVD players can deal with it quite well
> enough.


Howie, why do you talk shit like this? Any laserdisc player with a
digital output can play back DTS lasers, and if you need a separate DVD
player to play back DTS DVDs, your combi player isn't all that super, is it?


> You are still obsessed with DTS, aren't you?


I'm obsessed with sound quality. You wouldn't get it.


Well, DTS is
> very good, but so is Dolby Digital, at least at 448 kbps.
> Indeed, I have had a chance to compare the DD, DTS, and
> DVD-A tracks on a number of releases. All very good - and
> all pretty much the same sounding, unless obvious mixing
> tricks had been applied. In most cases, this meant that the
> DVD-A tracks sounded different from the DD and DTS tracks,
> which always sounded the same.


Everything sounds the same to deaf people, too.

mdryoon

unread,
Apr 3, 2002, 11:18:49 PM4/3/02
to
Craig Dikken wrote:
>
> > Just out of curiosity, what does your system consist of?
<snip>

Sony DVP-NS300 DVD Player, used as a CD transport and DVD player
Sony STR-SL7 receiver
Dynaudio Contour 1.3 Mk II speakers
Radio Shack coax digital cable and Carol Wire speaker cable
Approx. 15' x 12' x 8' room, heavily damped, leaky bass.

Richard Yoon

George M. Middius

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 12:07:59 AM4/4/02
to

The Rev. Pious Pandaschlub intoned:

> Sony DVP-NS300 DVD Player, used as a CD transport and DVD player
> Sony STR-SL7 receiver
> Dynaudio Contour 1.3 Mk II speakers
> Radio Shack coax digital cable and Carol Wire speaker cable
> Approx. 15' x 12' x 8' room, heavily damped, leaky bass.


This enumeration is downright deception, Yoon-Yoon. The most
significant aspect of your "system" is the wall-to-wall Bibles.

Tom

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 1:25:13 AM4/4/02
to
See a doctor, Greg. They can actually treat your illness.
They can make the pain go away.

Stewart Pinkerton

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 1:39:13 AM4/4/02
to
On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:53:29 -0500, "Craig Dikken"
<craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>Yes George, now it's your turn to tell us about your system....there have
>been some pretty good ones so far, and a couple very long lists. I can only
>imagine the $$$ spent to collect all these components.

Consider instead the $$$ per day if you don't churn your gear every
year, and collect it over tens of years. I'd put my expenditure at
around $2-3 a day, including the music collection. Just drink a couple
less beers, and you too can have a 'high end' system - *if* you don't
listen to the sales droids and the ragazine guys!

BTW, have you noticed that the usual suspects have had no interest in
describing their own gear, instead just howling at the moon in their
usual petty and spiteful way? :-)

Stewart Pinkerton

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 1:39:14 AM4/4/02
to

Nice system! Try Sennheiser HD580s, IMHO the best of the range, and
now available at very fair prices.

Stewart Pinkerton

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 1:39:15 AM4/4/02
to

Someone with that opinion, who is a regular on an audio newgroup,
gives me the willies, note.

Goofball_star_dot_etal

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 2:19:11 AM4/4/02
to

I imagine that they are heartbroken.

Goofball_star_dot_etal

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 3:19:20 AM4/4/02
to
On Thu, 04 Apr 2002 06:39:15 GMT, a...@borealis.com (Stewart Pinkerton)
wrote:

>On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 23:01:42 GMT, w...@needs.email.anyhow
>(Goofball_star_dot_etal) wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:13:21 -0500, "Craig Dikken"
>><craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Just out of curiosity, what does your system consist of?
>>
>>I use any old rubbish, note.
>>
>>Audiophiles give me the willies, note.
>
>Someone with that opinion, who is a regular on an audio newgroup,
>gives me the willies, note.
>

I have been hysterical for years since I realized that audiophiles
have gone soft and want the impossible *and* a remote control.
http://mail.music.vt.edu/pipermail/sursound/1998-November/003235.html

What's wrong with *old* Tannoy M.G. 15s, anyhow?

trotsky

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 6:11:15 AM4/4/02
to

Bibles as damping material--there is a certain symmetry there.

trotsky

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 6:14:24 AM4/4/02
to

Tom wrote:
>
> See a doctor, Greg. They can actually treat your illness.
> They can make the pain go away.


I'll tell you what: if you can make your pronouns agree with their
antecedents, I might consider it. Until that time, though, you are just
another ignorant bag of pus clogging up Usenet.

dave weil

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 9:06:55 AM4/4/02
to
On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 20:33:36 GMT, Kenneth Kirkpatrick
<ken...@gte.net> wrote:

>dave weil wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> 5 or 6 10 inch reels, one of which was recorded by Steve Hoffman.
>>
>> Hope that this satisfies your curiousity.
>
>Please tell me about the open reel tape Steve made! Do you have access to another
>reel. Is it 2 track or 4 track. I am drooling. Ken

Ohhhh, don't drool. It's just some reference test tones.

dave weil

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 9:37:59 AM4/4/02
to
On Thu, 04 Apr 2002 06:39:13 GMT, a...@borealis.com (Stewart Pinkerton)
wrote:

>On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:53:29 -0500, "Craig Dikken"


><craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Yes George, now it's your turn to tell us about your system....there have
>>been some pretty good ones so far, and a couple very long lists. I can only
>>imagine the $$$ spent to collect all these components.
>
>Consider instead the $$$ per day if you don't churn your gear every
>year, and collect it over tens of years. I'd put my expenditure at
>around $2-3 a day, including the music collection. Just drink a couple
>less beers, and you too can have a 'high end' system - *if* you don't
>listen to the sales droids and the ragazine guys!

Well, in my case, I've probably got less than $3 grand in *all* of the
equipment, including the musical oriented stuff.

Retail of the cables alone is probably close to $20 (hell, the 30 ft.
run of Symphonic Line alone is over $5k easily) but I didn't pay for
them as they were left by an ex-roommate (as was a lot of the gear
listed). I will admit that the most expensive cable I've purchased was
a Radio Shack optical cable which was $30. No, wait, I remember buying
a pair of Tara Labs cable for around the same price.

Tom

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 10:02:57 AM4/4/02
to


whatever. I bet that's not the general consesnus. and I think you
know that. but this isn't a popularity contest, is it?

it's all about you.

see a doctor, Greg. doctors can actually treat your illness.
they can make your pain go away.

Craig Dikken

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 7:47:58 AM4/4/02
to
What is your system George?


"George M. Middius" <Glan...@ipo.net> wrote in message
news:trnnau4j42gm4so6v...@4ax.com...

Craig Dikken

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 7:51:31 AM4/4/02
to
Petty and spiteful....I couldn't agree more. Sounds like the traits of a
Bose owner.


"Stewart Pinkerton" <a...@borealis.com> wrote in message

news:3cabe8c4....@news.fsnet.co.uk...

Kenneth Kirkpatrick

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 10:32:18 AM4/4/02
to
dave weil wrote:

bummer! Although Arny would like it, Lots!


George M. Middius

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 10:58:21 AM4/4/02
to

Craig Dickless Shelleyed:

> > BTW, have you noticed that the usual suspects have had no interest in
> > describing their own gear, instead just howling at the moon in their
> > usual petty and spiteful way? :-)

> Petty and spiteful....I couldn't agree more. Sounds like the traits of a
> Bose owner.

Nice hypocrisy, Dickless. I'm sure you'll need that explained to
you. I recommend dropping dave weil a note -- he's shown
admirable patience in dealing with idiotic zealots like you.

trotsky

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 11:08:14 AM4/4/02
to

Tom, you are really being offensive now. Have you had a close
experience with mental illness? It is no more a joking matter than
somebody's dead kid. Apparently your hypocrisy and level of ignorance
know no bounds.

Nexus 6

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 11:10:47 AM4/4/02
to
On Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:13:21 -0500, "Craig Dikken"
<craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:

>Just out of curiosity, what does your system consist of? I see a lot of
>opinions, and bashing going on, but never hear mention of your own
>Hi-Fi.....c'mon George, Arny, Howard, Dave, Stewart. I'm curious to see who
>follows their own advice (not sure if George qualifies, as I've never quite
>seen him give advice). Please George, just tell us what your Hi-Fi is, and
>not resort to name calling, or the sort.

You didn't name me as one of the co-conspirators, but I'll
post mine just the same.

Preamp: McCormack Micro Headphone Drive.
CD: Cambridge Audio CD-4
Amp: Bryston 2B-LP
Speakers: Mission Cyrus Compact 782

It's a small system, but the speakers are really wonderful,
and the preamp does duty as a headphone amp.

Nexus 6

================================

"I want to wear your ass like a hat for all eternity."

dave weil

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 11:31:09 AM4/4/02
to
On Thu, 04 Apr 2002 15:32:18 GMT, Kenneth Kirkpatrick
<ken...@gte.net> wrote:

Well, it *deos* have its usefullness, as it was apparently recorded on
this specific reel-to-reel to act as an "absolute" reference for
purposes of head calibration.

Craig Dikken

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 11:16:27 AM4/4/02
to
You're right.....he still puts up with you.

"George M. Middius" <Glan...@ipo.net> wrote in message

news:eutoau0umilkmmkh4...@4ax.com...

Craig Dikken

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 11:32:23 AM4/4/02
to
...if only your audio knowledge could come close to your knowledge of
grammar. It seems you have nothing else to comment on.

"George M. Middius" <Glan...@ipo.net> wrote in message
news:eutoau0umilkmmkh4...@4ax.com...
>
>

Craig Dikken

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 11:08:42 AM4/4/02
to
You're the load your mother should have swallowed.....without a doubt.


"George M. Middius" <Glan...@ipo.net> wrote in message
news:eutoau0umilkmmkh4...@4ax.com...
>
>

Tom

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 12:33:21 PM4/4/02
to
trotsky wrote:
>
> Apparently your hypocrisy and level of ignorance
> know no bounds.

Surpassed only by your ability to alienate every friend
you've ever had. Enjoy your loneliness, coward.

trotsky

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 1:18:09 PM4/4/02
to

You are being very rat-ased about this, Tom.

Tom

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 1:41:54 PM4/4/02
to


Do you want to talk? What's your number?

trotsky

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 2:22:24 PM4/4/02
to

No, I don't want to talk. Learn something about hi-fi, music, movies,
or any aspect of pop culture, and we may have some common ground.

Tom

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 2:40:38 PM4/4/02
to


weiner.

tor b

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 3:06:05 PM4/4/02
to
>From: Tom ap...@netsurfshop.com

>weiner.


Flame him with posts made of fire
Or call him a troll or a liar
Or something obscener
But call him a weiner
And now you insult Oscar Meyer!

(Kevin sends his best)

tor b

Stewart Pinkerton

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 3:52:30 PM4/4/02
to
On Thu, 04 Apr 2002 10:08:14 -0600, trotsky <gsi...@qwestonline.com>
wrote:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Now we're getting to the heart
of the matter - he really *is* nuts.................................

Stewart Pinkerton

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 3:52:29 PM4/4/02
to
On Thu, 4 Apr 2002 07:51:31 -0500, "Craig Dikken"
<craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:

>Petty and spiteful....I couldn't agree more. Sounds like the traits of a
>Bose owner.

As it happens, I *am* the owner of a $40,000 Bose system! Got a good
deal though - they threw in a free Audi A4...... :-)

Howard Ferstler

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 3:55:11 PM4/4/02
to
trotsky <gsi...@qwestonline.com> wrote in message news:<3CABCA67...@qwestonline.com>...

> > > If it can't pass DTS, it isn't worth jack cheese.

> > It had no problems with any of the DTS laserdiscs I tried on
> > it, and it is a very good laserdisc player. (We know how you
> > lionize those DTS laserdiscs.) As for DTS DVD material, all
> > of my regular DVD players can deal with it quite well
> > enough.

> Howie, why do you talk shit like this? Any laserdisc player with a
> digital output can play back DTS lasers, and if you need a separate DVD
> player to play back DTS DVDs, your combi player isn't all that super, is it?

Well, unlike you, I do not have a huge collection of DTS laserdiscs. I
had a few a while back, but most of them have been duplicated with DVD
purchases, and so I gave them to a buddy of mine. The player is super,
because it can play the three major types of discs, with full digital
outputs. (OK, it cannot play DVD-A tracks on DVD-A discs.) That is is
not as good a DVD player as the other two I have in my main system
does not bother me. (I have two additional DVD players in my two other
systems, plus still another one in a roll-around equipment rack that I
use for equipment evaluation.) The laserdisc section is the same as
the earlier CLD-97, I believe.

> > You are still obsessed with DTS, aren't you?

> I'm obsessed with sound quality. You wouldn't get it.

How many record-review books have you published, pal? Indeed, how many
record reviews of any kind have you published, anywhere? At least I
can get my opinions into print. All you can do is blowhard or RAO.

> Well, DTS is
> > very good, but so is Dolby Digital, at least at 448 kbps.
> > Indeed, I have had a chance to compare the DD, DTS, and
> > DVD-A tracks on a number of releases. All very good - and
> > all pretty much the same sounding, unless obvious mixing
> > tricks had been applied. In most cases, this meant that the
> > DVD-A tracks sounded different from the DD and DTS tracks,
> > which always sounded the same.

> Everything sounds the same to deaf people, too.

How many level-matched, quick-switch comparisons have you done? I
managed to obtain duplicate copies of quite a few DVD-A releases, and
took the time to compare the different tracks head to head.

Did you do something like that, or did you just play around in the
usual speculative manner and impose your will upon the results?

Incidentally, I have discovered additional problems with DVD-A (beyond
the bass-management glitch) that you will have to wait and read about
in a future issue of TSS.

Howard Ferstler

Kenneth Kirkpatrick

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 4:10:27 PM4/4/02
to
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

How does it sound? The Bose systems I have heard in cars were pretty good for
stock systems. Better than most. Ken


dave weil

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 4:22:21 PM4/4/02
to

So, tell us again how you were able to overcome the "sync" problem.

Remember what a "noted expert" had to say on this subject once upon a
time:

> >You do not realize that with an ABX comparison you are
> > comparing "A" and "B" to "X," and X can be either A or B
> > whenever you switch to a new sequence. Hence, if player A
> > and player B are not operating at the same speed exactly,
> > whenever you switch to X you will immediately be able to
> > tell if it is A or B, even if the sound quality is
> > identical. That invalidates the test. You have no such
> > problems with amp and wire comparisons.

Was this test "invalidated"?

Oh wait, you weren't doing a "proper blind test" here, were you? No
controls other than a level control, right?

You lose.

Again.

ScottW

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 6:00:58 PM4/4/02
to
trotsky <gsi...@qwestonline.com> wrote in message news:<3CAC7A6E...@qwestonline.com>...

> > see a doctor, Greg. doctors can actually treat your illness.
> > they can make your pain go away.
>
>
>
> Tom, you are really being offensive now. Have you had a close
> experience with mental illness? It is no more a joking matter than
> somebody's dead kid. Apparently your hypocrisy and level of ignorance
> know no bounds.

He's being offensive? Trotsky, you're one sick pooch.

ScottW

Yustabe Slim

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 6:51:53 PM4/4/02
to

"Stewart Pinkerton" <a...@borealis.com> wrote in message
news:3cabe8c4....@news.fsnet.co.uk...
> On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:53:29 -0500, "Craig Dikken"
> <craig...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Yes George, now it's your turn to tell us about your
system....there have
> >been some pretty good ones so far, and a couple very long lists. I
can only
> >imagine the $$$ spent to collect all these components.
>
> Consider instead the $$$ per day if you don't churn your gear every
> year, and collect it over tens of years. I'd put my expenditure at
> around $2-3 a day, including the music collection. Just drink a
couple
> less beers, and you too can have a 'high end' system - *if* you
don't
> listen to the sales droids and the ragazine guys!
>
> BTW, have you noticed that the usual suspects have had no interest
in
> describing their own gear, instead just howling at the moon in their
> usual petty and spiteful way? :-)
>


I guess I'm not one of the 'usual suspects'.


-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Ulimited downloads - 19 servers ==-----

George M. Middius

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 7:10:42 PM4/4/02
to

Yustabe Slim said:

> > BTW, have you noticed that the usual suspects

> I guess I'm not one of the 'usual suspects'.

I wonder if Pinkie realizes he just mimicked Arnii Krooborg, whom
he's recently (and correctly) labeled a weasel, liar, and blowhard.

Howard Ferstler

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 8:59:31 PM4/4/02
to
dave weil wrote:

> So, tell us again how you were able to overcome the "sync" problem.

Dave, if you cannot remember the details, there is not much
use in going over it with you still another time. For some
additional details, I suggest you be patient and be ready to
read up on what I have discovered when my report comes out
in a future issue of The Sensible Sound.


> Remember what a "noted expert" had to say on this subject once upon a
> time:

> > >You do not realize that with an ABX comparison you are
> > > comparing "A" and "B" to "X," and X can be either A or B
> > > whenever you switch to a new sequence. Hence, if player A
> > > and player B are not operating at the same speed exactly,
> > > whenever you switch to X you will immediately be able to
> > > tell if it is A or B, even if the sound quality is
> > > identical. That invalidates the test. You have no such
> > > problems with amp and wire comparisons.

> Was this test "invalidated"?

> Oh wait, you weren't doing a "proper blind test" here, were you? No
> controls other than a level control, right?
>
> You lose.
>
> Again.

Only in your eyes, Dave - and a very narrowly focussed pair
of eyes they most certainly are.

After all, if you cannot understand the difference between a
rational person doing a reasonably careful and intelligent
A/B comparison between players, and a goofball who needs to
be kept utterly in the dark about the identity of "X," so
that his preconceptions do not screw the pooch, so to speak,
there is not much sense in discussing the issue with you.

Anyway, I am getting a bit busy right now. I have five
monoblock amps, a big subwoofer, and an outboard subwoofer
amplifier to audition this weekend. Then, later next week I
have a rather unusual set of speaker systems to check out,
and probably not much later than that, still another set of
speakers will be arriving, plus still another subwoofer.
Supposedly, I will soon also be receiving a very, very
upscale surround processor to review.

You keep on speculating and defending your position, Dave,
because it gives you something to do in your spare time. Me?
Well, I am going to audition some speakers and write up some
reviews. That is, if I can break away from my Encyclopedia
article writing long enough.

Ah, the audio writer and product reviewer's life. What a
gas!

Howard Ferstler

Yustabe Slim

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 9:16:23 PM4/4/02
to

"Howard Ferstler" <fer...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3CAD0503...@attglobal.net...
>

> I suggest you be patient and be ready to
> read up on what I have discovered when my report comes out
> in a future issue of The Sensible Sound.
>

Your behavior indicates that your primary purpose here is
selling copies of the magazine that you work for. I suspect
that you are paid based upon the number of issues sold.
The use of RAO as a vehicle to promote sales of one's own
merchandise is severely frowned upon.

Howard Ferstler

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 9:31:13 PM4/4/02
to
Yustabe Slim wrote:
>
> "Howard Ferstler" <fer...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:3CAD0503...@attglobal.net...
> >
>
> > I suggest you be patient and be ready to
> > read up on what I have discovered when my report comes out
> > in a future issue of The Sensible Sound.

> Your behavior indicates that your primary purpose here is
> selling copies of the magazine that you work for. I suspect
> that you are paid based upon the number of issues sold.
> The use of RAO as a vehicle to promote sales of one's own
> merchandise is severely frowned upon.

I get paid a fixed amount that has nothing to do with
magazine circulation. Heck, I would write for free if I
could be sure that doing so would unsettle people like you.
(Don't tell my publisher this.)

However, let's be honest. I do like as many people to read
my stuff as possible because (1) it further amplifies my
impact and power, (2) it will make greater numbers of smart
audiophiles happy, and (3) I like people to know how sharp I
am.

And why should I tell you what I discovered for free when
the magazine pays me good money to write articles?

Howard Ferstler

George M. Middius

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 10:00:03 PM4/4/02
to
Yustabe Slim said:

> > I would write for free if I
> > could be sure that doing so would unsettle people like you.

> I suppose that is what you are trying to do here.

I will note that Harold's tone on Usenet has become more bitter and
more psychotic, note, since he had his operation. Note.

Tom

unread,
Apr 4, 2002, 10:24:53 PM4/4/02
to
tor b wrote:
>
> >From: Tom ap...@netsurfshop.com
>
> >weiner.
>
> Flame him with posts made of fire
> Or call him a troll or a liar
> Or something obscener
> But call him a weiner
> And now you insult Oscar Meyer!

LOL - that cracked me up.


> (Kevin sends his best)

I know. thanks.

>
> tor b

....... I am still laughing...

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