Platinum and Rhodium Plated Jewelry Info
Antony Nash
rhodium in jewelry plating? I own a small jewelry business and I often get
customers asking me the difference between the two. I am thinking of
posting an information page on my website but am having problems finding
information that isn't too technical or scientific in nature...
Thanks
ant...@zirconite.com
Ph: (213) 236-0809
Fx: (213) 236-0822
larry seiger
>rhodium in jewelry plating?
Platinum is not used in plating. The physical characteristics of platinum do
not lend themselves to plating. However rhodium, which is a platinum group
metal, is indistinguishable in color when plated. It is the standard in the
industry. There are several reasons why rhodium is the prefered metal when
plating jewelry white. The platinum group metals are all very hard materials,
and when plated, rhodium is one of the hardest giving the surface a wonderful,
relatively high scratch resistant surface. Anyone who has tried to remove a
rhodium plated finish by polishing will attest to this! I would say that the
most startling difference between platinum and rhodium is the price. Your
customers will probably appreciate this, too. Platinum closed at around $465
the other day while the same day rhodium closed at $2,500.00 an ounce! So,
anyone who thinks that we are using a cheap material to plate onto jewelry,
think again. Rhodium is not needed to plate onto platinum as the color is so
close that even machines have trouble determining the color difference between
the two. Unless of course you are trying to color the differences from solder
and metal.
Larry Seiger
JA Certified Master Bench Jeweler
Rick Bailey
but you are the second person who has referred to it as "hard".
Which is true???
Rick
larry seiger <lsha...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:luiebsgdkk0nk1qla...@4ax.com...
Peter W. Rowe
<ety...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>I've always heard that platinum is a soft metal (even from Hoover & Strong),
>>but you are the second person who has referred to it as "hard".
>>
>>Which is true???
>>
>>Rick
>>
>> { Larry Seiger's reply snipped for brevity...}<<
In a sense, Both. But, Re-read Larry's post. He refers not to platinum, but to
the platinum GROUP metals as being hard, when used in plating. Platinum itself
is perhaps the softest of the platinum group, and relative to other jewelry
metals, it's pretty soft, though its still harder than the other metals when
they are pure. and that's the key. Pure gold and pure silver are much too soft
for jewelry, and seldom used. Platinum, on the other hand, is used almost pure,
at 90-95 percent pure. In that form, it's easier to dent than, say, 14K gold or
the white golds, but it's still hard enough to survive as jewelry. And strength
is not the same as hardness. Platinum is quite stong and resistant to breaking,
so thin constructions in platinum will survive better than the same thing in
even the very springy and hard white golds. Plus, it's density and tencile
strength mean that it's far more resistant to wearing down by abrasion than the
other jewelry metals, even if it's technically softer. So it lasts much better
over time. And it's also important to point out that hardness in all these
metals is highly variable depending on the exact alloy, the crystal structure
(grain size, especially), and the degree of either work hardening or age
hardening. Each metal has a fairly wide range of hardness. Iridio-platinum
alloy, as usually used in fabricated work, when fully annealed, is only a little
harder than, say, 18K yellow gold when it's also annealed. Fully work hardened,
it's a good deal harder, but still not springy. But you can get platinum alloys
with indium/gallium alloying componants that can be heat treated to a very hard
and springy state, even though the alloy is still 95% platinum.
Among the other platinum group metals, palladium too is fairly soft. But most
of the other ones, like iridium, rhodium, osmium, etc, are VERY hard, even
brittle. Many are almost unworkable. Not all of them do not make a good
plating solution either. Rhodium is not only very hard, but since it forms a
stable sulphate, can be made into a stable, easily workable plating solution
more easily than some of the others. Plus, it's the whitest in color of the
platinum group metals. It imparts a surface hardness well in excess of that of
most platinum alloys themselves. Remember that rhodium too, is a platinum group
metal.
Peter Rowe
larry seiger
>but you are the second person who has referred to it as "hard".
>
>Which is true???
>
>
Rick,
Perhaps a better way of focusing on the term "hardness" is to treat it as one
would with a gemstone. At least, that is how I use it. Hardness to me is
defined as the ability that a substance has to resist scratching. Though this
is the most accurate use of the term as it applies to gemstones, metal with all
it's different qualities causes some confusion. Hardness, as Peter stated, is
different from strength and also from ductility. Pure gold is one of the most
ductile metals. You can draw an ounce of gold into a wire that is miles long.
Yet the strength of that wire will be less than the exact same diameter of pure
platinum, though by how much I couldn't say. The degree of hardness that
platinum has means that it will be harder to scratch. This will be apperant to
anyone who has tried to polish platinum (polishing is merely the technique of
scratching metal in a way that the surface texture reflects light more
efficeintly). Platinum is very difficult if not practically impossible to
polish as you would other non-ferrous metals. I hope this provides some
clarity.
nhw...@my-deja.com
lsha...@aol.comnojunk (larry seiger) wrote:
> >I've always heard that platinum is a soft metal (even from Hoover &
Strong),
> >but you are the second person who has referred to it as "hard".
> >
> >Which is true???
> >
> >
>
> Rick,
> Perhaps a better way of focusing on the term "hardness" is to treat
it as one
Hi!
Yes, that is true. BUT! Pure Platinum is very soft in all senses (not
as soft as gold). However, it is not normally used for jewellery
(jewelry) fabrication. The following are some of the alloys used for
jewellery:
Pt 950 or 960 / Copper 40 or 50 slightly harder, but very good for
hand working.
Pt 950 / Cobalt 50 Great for casting! Quite hard to work by hand.
Pt 900 / Palladium 100 Very expensive these days, great to work with.
Lovely to finish & polish. BESIDES it uses only Pt group metals.
Pt 850 / Iridium 150. VERRRRY hard; also all Pt group. Used by the
great jewelers in the heydays of Pt. Cartier, Harry Winston, Van Cleef&
Arpels etc etc, ALL the great N.Y. , Paris , and London jewellers have
used this in the past, for very delicate, diamond work. Don't even try
it, it is too hard.
Stick with pure Pt if you can polish it - very difficult as someone
else already told you. Otherwise go for Pt/Cu alloy - easy to work,
easy to polish, and hard enough for thin ring shanks and even prongs.
Use rhodium plating over it - ITS NOT DIFFICULT.
Good luck!
Anything else?
Nariman H. Wadia.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
nhw...@my-deja.com
Reply-To: <gfe...@sureste.com>
FELIPE's REQUEST
Subject: Rhodium advise
Hello:
I am sorry for the intrusion. I got your e-mail address from a reply
you did to somebody's question in a Usenet and I took the liberty to
write to you to ask you for some of your time to give me some advise
regarding rhodium plating, specially 2 issues:
1- What causes and how to avoid a dark look in rhodium plating, how to
avoid this look, how to get a whiter,brighter look?
2-How to know when the PH level in the plating solution has gone up or
down, and a proper method for filtering the solution.
I would really appreciate if you could spare the time to help me on
this issues or is you know some place on the web where I can get
reliable information about it.
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Felipe
Nariman's answer (part 1)
Hi, Felipe!
Thanks for giving me the opportunity of giving a lecture; but I do
think that my answer will be interesting to the whole group, so forgive
me if I take it back on the rec.crafts.jewelry group. I am new at this
internet stuff so I may mess it up. I am told that "posts" should be
kept short - but your questions cover enormous ground. Here goes!
Yr. Q 2 : I do not know WHAT solution you are using, but if you are
using DEGUSSA J2, life would be simple - it works superbly under all
sorts of conditions. Nothing else even comes close!!! I have over 43
years of experience with various Rh baths, then with J1, nowadays with
J2.
Re: pH :Generally Rh solutions are strongly acidic, and should remain
so throughout their life. My answer is Do Not even Bother with pH
measurements, unless you have a huge bath and are deeply concerned
about maintaining the bath, rather than getting results :-) :-).
Re: Filtering. Do NOT, repeat do NOT use activated charcoal to filter
high quality Rh solutions, even if advised by professionals. Charcoal
removes all the organics (brighteners, wetting agents, de-bubblisers)
leaving little else than Rh-sulfate and sulfuric acid.
Use only paper filters. Suggestion : Two layers of "Whatman" neutral
paper of suitable size.
B..U..T.., in your Rh plating operation you should have maintained SUCH
CLEANLINESS, that filtering should be mostly unnecessary. At best,
never; at worst, VERY rarely. If your solution soon looks as if it
needs to be filtered, well, first find out how you are transfering gunk
into it, and remove that cause.
OKAY now the main course, yr Q 1 . That's a huge field. I will answer
what I can today, and leave the rest for some other time. You need to
look at the following:
Cleanliness; Cleanliness; Cleanliness; .. you get it ? I do not
think so. I am called at least once every month by jewelry
manufacturers to sort out plating problems (btw. I do this for a living
in the real world!). It is amazing how many times people lapse back
into the same old habits. As cleanliness is involved at each stage of
the operations, I will handle it at each stage.
What are you plating upon? If plating on platinum (or PGMs), karat gold
or high percentage silver, I see no problem. Most other substrates
need nickel plating prior to Rh. (Messy stuff, that. I hate nickel).
Preferably followed by a gold strike. Lower silver might also need a
gold strike. But that is all NOT so important. I will assume that you
are plating on precious metals, and so the above will not be referred
to again.
Are you plating gold/silver castings? Is there porosity in the
castings? Look carefully, do not expect Rh plating to cover up defects,
it will only enhance them.
Is the surface well polished? Yes? Great! But have you really got rid
of EVERY trace of the polishing compound? Do you use an ultrasonic
cleaner? Are you using a proper cleaning compound designed for precious
metals, or have you been told that such-and-such detergent is good
enough? Forget it! Use a proper u/s cleaning agent. "SWEST, Inc." have
a GREAT, inexpensive cleaner called "Magic Green". Works for days and
days. Use thread or plastic hooks to suspend the jewelry being cleaned,
not metal. Naturally, do not place your pieces at the bottom of the
tank, or they will get finely abraded.
Use the cleaner hot, UNLESS you have set stones which might get
damaged: pearls, coral, turquoise, opal, emerald etc.
The steps for Rh plating are as follows: U/c cleaning >>>> rinse in
running water >>>> electrolytic degreasing >>>> rinse in running water
>>>> acid activation >>>> directly (yes, I mean directly) into Rh bath
>>>> 1st dragout in distilled water >>>> second dragout in distilled
water >>>> hot distilled water dip >>> another hot distilled water dip
>>>> dry!
That was step one. Now try not to touch the part with your fingers from
there on, but transfer the part from hook to hook as you go along the
process.
Now hold the piece under clean running water.
Next, use your rectifier to electrolytic degrease your part. Again, hot
degreasing is better. Use a proper electrolytic degeasing compound
MEANT FOR PRECIOUS METALS. The piece should be the cathode; the anodes
should be stainless steel of good quality (304, 316). Use anything from
8 to 12 volts; VIGOROUS generation of Hydrogen should occur. Spend
about 30 - 45 seconds on this.
Again hold the part under running water. NOW LOOK AT IT; HARD!
The water should run off in a smooth film. Remember the old ads for
dishwashing detergents? Water should not remain on the surface in
droplets or spots; no breaks in the film. This is very important, so I
repeat, "The water should run off in a smooth film."
If it does not, go back to square one. Do not be lazy about this.
RHODIUM PLATING GIVES YOU ONLY ONE CHANCE. YOU CANNOT PLATE RHODIUM ON
RHODIUM. GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. If you get poor results, you have
to remove the rhodium by re-polishing manually.
OK. That's all for now. I am a one finger typist and take hours to type
a page. I will continue my LECTURE after a couple of days. Please do
not worry that so far I have only talked of preparation - that is half
the battle. We will attack 'the good stuff' in the next 'lecture'.
Regards to all,
Nariman H. Wadia,
Consultant.
nhw...@my-deja.com
SeRhodium Whiter Brighter. Part 2.
SORRY TO TAKE UP SO MUCH SPACE ON ONE TOPIC. But I really thought that
since I WAS writing everything out for Felipe, why not post
the 'LECTURE" to the whole group?
If I am breaking netiquette, well, you can whatsis... FLAME me, and
I'll know better next time.
Hey felipe!
No one has really taken the trouble to say thanks, when I have tried to
help. It seems people EXPECT that the "magic of InterNet" gives then
the right to enjoy the benefit ( :-) ) of lifetimes of other people's
work without so much as a simple two line note of thanks.
Your taking the trouble to send such a lovely note even before I
finished - with the good stuff still to follow - really gladdens my
heart. Many thanks for taking the trouble to write. Very kind of you.
So I sat down again, and will try to write some more before I fall of
to sleep. It is very late (here in INDIA - yep that's my home), but
what the heck, tomorrow is Sunday. I shall stay in bed a little longer
in the morning.
(Oh! In my haste to get along with actual plating instructions, and my
reluctance to allow people to filter solutions, I might forget to give
the few exceptions when charcoal filters MUST be used, and, having
removed the good stuff along with the dirt, how you could utilise the
leftover Rh solution. If I forget, REMIND ME!)
OK, so you are forced to use Cohler. OK, that is not bad at all, but I
am not sure of the chemistry. Coincidentally, I had a look at a company
that (because of the recent very steep rises in Rh price) last week
brought down the Cohler stocks they had put away since changing to
DEGUSSA J2. I saw that Cohler's work was VERY GOOD, but the customer
noticed a difference. J2 actually looked better even to the laypersons
present. Maybe it had to do with slight differences of chemistry, but I
have to say the following:
I know Degussa like the back of my hand - with it, I AM ON CERTAIN
GROUND.
I have no wish to do injustice to other manufacturers, merely because
of MY lack of the requisite data FOR THEIR PRODUCT. Please therefore
note: ALL OF THE FOLLOWING IS FOR DEGUSSA J1 & J2, sorry friend, I do
not want you to ruin perfectly good baths from other mfrs. by using
methods desirable for DEGUSSA.
OK. Where were we? Oh yes. WE have just electrolytically degreased the
ring, pendant, whatever; dipped it in clean running water, and EXAMINED
IT FOR A SMOOTH WATER_FILM without droplets and spots.
Your next step is the acid activation and dip.
Well, this needs a convenient Borosilicate or Polypropylele beaker of
suitable size ( I dunno what you need. 1 litre? 2 lts?) Swish this out
with a 10% solution of H2SO4 in clean water. I know you have heard this
a thousand times before, but from here on, wear safety glasses, rubber
or plastic gloves, and (yeh, yeh, I know you know!) add, VERRRRY slowly
the acid to the water, stirring with a glass rod. Throw away the
rinsing water, and make a 5% solution of REAGENT GRADE H2SO4, in real
distilled water.
Now bring your ring, still wet with a smooth film, still untouched by
your fingers, on a plastic coated wire, and dip it in the dilute H2SO4
briefly - Oh!!! give it 5 seconds of swishing around. Tip: do not use
stronger acid a.) it will not work better, b.) it will attack the
surface of your parts, and IF you are using, say, 10K with a high zinc
content, you will start etching (actually leaching is a better word)
the zinc off the surface. Not much at all, but just enough to very
slightly dull the gloss.
If you are still awake, I would like to tell you the purpose of the
acid dip.
1.) Even after thoroughly cleaning the degreased part, it will still
feel soapy, from the tiny amount of alkali still remaining on it.
Remember, I said your Rh bath should remain strongly acidic? Well,
these tiny amounts of alkali will SLOWLY raise the pH of your Rh bath.
(Ah-hah! You KNEW I would have to talk of pH. This is the last mention)
2.) The surface of your jewelry needs activation before the immediate
next step - great, white, brilliant :-) :-) Rhodium plating itself!
Now listen carefully, the next suggested step by the professionals is
to dip in distilled water before Rh.! No, No No, a thousand times no.
Please go straight (after shaking off excess acidic water) into the Rh.
WARNING! and yet another warning! Do not do it this way if the next
step is Gold or Silver plating. Au / Ag baths are almost always
strongly cyanide, and carrying tiny amounts of H2SO4 into cyanide will
liberate Hydrocyanic Acid Gas, ALSO USED IN GAS CHAMBERS FOR
ADMINISTERING THE FINAL "JUSTICE"! Highly dangerous. Only do this for
RhSulphate baths (J2 or similar). Here you are merely transporting tiny
amounts of sulphuric into a bath already strongly suphuric. No harm
there.
OOOPS! I hope you are doing all this in a well ventilated area in ANY
CASE.
Thousand apologies for not saying this at the outset. Well ventilated,
but absolutely dust free. Hmmmmmmm....
Now you are about to dip your masterpiece (at last! at last!) into the
Rh solution!
HOLD IT RIGHT THERE! STOP! Many issues to go over before you put
anything into that golden brown liquid!
Assuming you are starting with a new bottle of DEGUSSA J2. One two gram
bottle will make a one litre bath. So make it this way. In a precise,
tall measuring cylinder, put in 800 ml of the purest, finest distilled
water your chemist (not your filling station!) can give you. Empty
after careful measurement in to a glass beaker which also has been
rinsed with acidulated water. Into the beaker you now slowly, ever so
slowly add the 100 ml of Rh J2. remember, strong acid goes into water.
Measure another 50 ml. in the measuring cylinder, Dist Water of course,
and pour into the bottle in which the concentrate was packed, swish
around, and pour into the Rh beaker. Repeat with the last 50 ml to
complete your 1 lt bath. WHEW.
Now, what are you using as your anode? Platinised Titanium ?
1. Examine it with a loupe. Has the platinum eroded in tiny pits,
leaving Ti exposed, oh ever so little? Yes? Well get new anodes. Make
sure the SURFACE AREA of EACH is at least twice the area of your
largest pieces. Get TWO of them, and hang them on opposing sides of the
beaker, so that all sides of the ring are exposed to the flow of
current almost equally. Remember to interconnect the two anodes.
2. If using Platinized Ti anodes DO NOT LEAVE THEM IN THE Rh solution
longer than necessary! Remove them from the bath every evening, rinse
AND dry them before putting them away.
3. I much prefer a thin, ever so thin sheet of PURE platinum instead.
SURE it costs; but it will last forever. And without any special care
or frequent examination. No coating to erode, nothing to change, not
ever. Way to go! All my clients have eventually changed over to pure
platinum. 9995. Not Pt/Cu, not Pt/co, not Pt/Ir, not even Pt/Pd. 9995
pure.
4. Okay, your boss won't spring for the good stuff? Then at least make
sure that ONLY the portion of the Pt'ed Titanium that is coated goes
into the solution. THE HANGER STRIPS ARE NAKED TITANIUM!
CAUSE NUMBER ONE OF GREY RHODIUM - eroded Pt/Titanium anodes. Not in
the books, but from real life. Hey save yourself grief - get 9995 Pt
once and for all. Nothing is eaten away nothing is lost, ever.
So, what is cause number two? Cause number two, is contaminated
solution. Felipe, look through your Rh solution, and judge honestly. Is
the colour a true Brandy colour? Or can you imagine a slight
blackishness- greeny shade?
If you can, then your solution is contaminated by either copper (from
the hanger wires) or nickel from low karat white gold with high
concentrations of zinc.
So how do you protect yourself? Well, try and use nice, fat round
silver wire PREPLATED WITH RHODIUM to connect to and hang your
jewellery. Round? Yes; square wire with corners sometimes spark due to
insufficient contact area during agitation. Fat? Yes, yes to keep the
contact area as large as possible. (Geometry professors, please do not
tell me that the point at which the tangent meets a circle of any
diameter is still only a point! This is the real world; thin wire= poor
contact. thick wire= better contact.)
Keep using the same wires for as long a time as possible, Rh will
encrust on it slowly, and it will resist etching better and better.
With low carat gold, with gold containing a lot of zinc, in fact as a
good general rule: 1st hook the piece, 2nd turn on the current, 3rd NOW
dip the piece. FIRST dipping the piece without the current on... well,
the sulphuric will not attack gold or even silver components of the
alloy, but will leach the copper, definitely the zinc. This can be
prevented by having the current on first. Plating starts immediately,
and prevents reverse flow of metallic ions.
Strong advice to all clients: "Turn the plating rectifier on first
thing in the morning, turn it off last thing in the evening. Do not
worry about power cost: current flows only when a piece is actually
being plated."
Number three cause of greyness? Overvoltage or overcurrent. Look
carefully at the manufacturers instructions and give EXACTLY the
voltage they specify.
Not more, not less. DEGUSSA specifies 2 -4 volts. I personally use 2,5
on straightforward pieces without too many deep recesses. With deep
recesses, well 3.25 / 3.5 MAX.
I hear a plaintive, "But the INSIDE still remains yellowish!" Oh yeah?
Well, then you did not get the inside clean enough in step ONE! Or, you
cheapskate! You are not giving the Rh enough time. Of course the
current density on the exposed pieces is higher, and so they get 'done'
faster. Give it enough time, and everything will be covered. PLease do
not be tempted to increase the voltage to get better "throw". That will
just make the exposed pieces dark (and that was where we came in!).
And, HA HA HA, do not put out fancy money for buying "pulsing" type
equipment to zap the the Rh into crevices with bursts of high voltage.
Helps, but again makes the open portions darker. NOTHING WORKS LIKE
FOLLOWING PROPER STEPS.
Now, is the temperature of your bath right? I have seen experienced
platers strongly heating their Rh solution in the belief that the work
is faster, better etc etc etc. Well, exactly follow manufacturer's
instructions.
We in India are lucky! DEGUSSA specifies a temperature range of 20C to
40C for their J2 Rh. The ideal is 28C to 32C. Oh lucky us! That is
usually our room temperature! "Nyah, nyah! We don't need a heater, we
don't need a heater!"
But those of you who work in colder climes, be gentle with your warmth.
Notice I do not say heating, I say WARMTH. Gentle, slow warmth. NEVER
let your solution actually reach 40c. By that time you are volatalising
all the good stuff, cooking other good stuff, and generally playing
havoc with the chemistry. YET, I see so many people doing just that.
OKAY, so we got cleanliness, we got good water, we use the best
solution (in my opinion DEGUSSA J2), the right voltage, we kept
everything clean, including our language, SO FAR.
So what are these *%$***&^%$ yellowish spots doing on my beautiful
jewellery? Where the *^%#$* did THEY come from?
OOPS again. Did you notice those tiny bubbles coming off the jewelry
while the plating was going on? Not the vigorous roiling of the
Electrolytic degreasing operation, but tiny little bubble like the most
delicate champagne? Well, those, I forgot to tell you, were again
hydrogen bubbles. They stuck to the jewelry, instead of being released,
created an insulation between the piece and the solution, and THAT's
what caused the little yellow spots!
Why did they stick? Because, dear Felipe, the piece was STILL not clean
enough. So you see Felipe? Cleanliness, cleanliness **SQUWAWK!**
Okay, Felipe, despite your best efforts hydrogen bubbles stuck to the
piece. Happens! So, Felipe, we take one last precaution. We keep the
piece moving as we plate, we keep dislodging the bubbles, agitation we
call it. Not content with that, we GENTLY knock the piece against the
side of the beaker from time to time, encouraging the bubbles to "Get
off and STAY off!"
Ahhhhhh! Perfection; perfection at last! Now Nariman will you leave
alone? Let us sleep? No way, Jose! Or Felipe, as the case may be. You
ain't through yet. You've done a lovely job, now, you need to KEEP it
that way.
So, straight out of the Rh solution you go into the next beaker, which
contains only cool clean distilled water. This absorbs some of the
remaining Rh solution, retains the Rh 'values'. Rh is very precious. It
slowly turns yellowish as it retains more and more Rhodium. But why
should this water be distilled? Listen very carefully.
As you plate, the level of your plating solution will go down.
Evaporation, drag-out, etc. But it is not really a lot of rhodium
leaving, mostly water and acid, and well a teensy bit of rhodium. SO,
when the level in the main plating tank goes a bit lower, TOP IT UP
with the CLEAN, slightly yellow water from the "1st drag-out", and top
THAT up from the SECOND drag-out!
Then we come to the last clean HOT HOT water. Well that's just to wash
off any remaining Rhodium dilution. So why do you want that to be HOT
HOT?
Well, Felipe, having that last water HOT HOT, will make immediate
drying with a hair dryer a CINCH. The piece is already at nearly 90c+
having been in hot water, and just a touch of the hair dryer will dry
it off perfectly. No spots, no dust, no fingerprints. Just a SUPERB
Rhodium job.
AND, Felipe, lest you think this has taken hours and hours, No, No, No,
Felipe! The whole thing has taken less than SIX MINUTES. BElieve me. If
there is more than one person working assembly line style, then each
rack will come off the line every 2 to 3 minutes.
NOW GET IN THAT PLATING ROOM AND DO A GREAT JOB, FELIPE. MY REPUTATION
IS IN IN YOUR HANDS!!!!!!!
Good Luck,
Nariman H. Wadia
Your Consultant (regrettably honorary :-)!)
Second part of my reply to Felipe
Rick Bailey
experience is thoroughly appreciated by this group!
Rick
<nhw...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:ccclcs8uja2iaenhf...@4ax.com...
> Whiter, Brighter Rhodium
>
> SeRhodium Whiter Brighter. Part 2.
>
> SORRY TO TAKE UP SO MUCH SPACE ON ONE TOPIC. But I really thought that
> since I WAS writing everything out for Felipe, why not post
> the 'LECTURE" to the whole group?
>
[[remainder of quoted text, over 200 lines, SNIPPED by moderator for brevity,
and because the netcom news servers won't allow that much quoted text for such a
small amount of new input. See the original post if you need to refer to it.
PWR]]
nhw...@my-deja.com
"Rick Bailey" <ety...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> WOW! What a knowledgeable individual. I'm sure ....
> <nhw...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:ccclcs8uja2iaenhf...@4ax.com...
> > Whiter, Brighter Rhodium
> >
> > SORRY TO TAKE UP SO MUCH SPACE ON ONE TOPIC. But I really
thought..... why not post the 'LECTURE" to the whole group?
> >
> [[remainder of quoted text, over 200 lines, SNIPPED by moderator for
brevity, ......
Dear friends,
I'm so happy you enjoyed my post.
Rick,
You are extremely kind; your response makes everything seem worth it. I
am new at this Internet thing, and it made my day to read your note.
Thanks.
To moderator:
Sorry my post was so long. But the subject demanded a full treatment.
If there is a better way of doing long posts, please let me know. I am
a neophyte at this thing.
To the rest of you, A REQUEST:
If you think your questions are of GENERAL INTEREST please post on this
discussion forum (rec.crafts.jewelry). I'm answering your questions
here.
John : I do not know about other manufacturers, but J2 (from DEGUSSA)
has a deposition speed of 0.1 micron in 4 minutes. A micron being a
millionth of a metre, or one thousandth of a millimetre. Mostly, two
minutes are enough(DEGUSSA recommends 2 mins as minimum). Yes, a half
of one thousandth of a millimetre is enough for most uses. For tarnish
protection, you can go even lower! But not if the article is a ring or
something that will be heavily worn. Then two minutes are really the
absolute minimum.
John : Yes, after depleting some Rh, you can add "replenishing"
concentrate.
John again, and Jerry : Used Rhodium solution needs to be returned to
the manufacturer for reprocessing. Do not send back tiny amounts, save
the spent liquid until a reasonable quantity is collected. Then reduce
it in quantity by gentle heating (or even just leaving it in sunlight),
and send back to the manufacturer REMEMBERING that the material is
HAZARDOUS. Telephone the manufacturer and get shipping instructions.
I REPEAT THIS MUST BE TREATED AS HAZARDOUS MATERIAL, even if you think
all the acid has been boiled out.
Jerry : Yes Rh CAN be precipitated out, but the precipitate is
extremely difficult to reprocess. Most manufacturers would prefer to
get the concentrated liquid.
Of course, I suspect they would REALLY prefer you to throw it away and
order afresh :-) :-) :-)
ONCE AGAIN, ALL THESE ARE GENERAL QUESTIONS, so I request you to post
on rec.crafts.jewelry rather than my personal e-mail. No, I do not have
a website.
Many thanks for your enthusiasm. God Bless!
Nariman.
(I think I am ALL PLATED OUT!)
Peter W. Rowe
wrote:
>>> >
>>> > SORRY TO TAKE UP SO MUCH SPACE ON ONE TOPIC. But I really
>>thought..... why not post the 'LECTURE" to the whole group?
>>> >
>>> [[remainder of quoted text, over 200 lines, SNIPPED by moderator for
>>brevity, ......
>>
>>Dear friends,
>>
>>I'm so happy you enjoyed my post.
>>
>>Rick,
>>You are extremely kind; your response makes everything seem worth it. I
>>am new at this Internet thing, and it made my day to read your note.
>>Thanks.
>>
>>To moderator:
>>Sorry my post was so long. But the subject demanded a full treatment.
>>If there is a better way of doing long posts, please let me know. I am
>>a neophyte at this thing.
>>
>>To the rest of you, A REQUEST:
>>
>>If you think your questions are of GENERAL INTEREST please post on this
>>discussion forum (rec.crafts.jewelry). I'm answering your questions
>>here.
A couple thoughts... A number of people sometimes spend a considerable amount of
time, for free, helping others over this and other online discussion groups.
All too often, these days, recipients of that help somehow find it easy to take
it for granted. Or to assume, from one reply post, that then the writer must be
an absolute expert on the subject who will welcome a flood of repeated emails
asking for more info and clarification, all without actually expressing
gratitude if/when it's delivered.
Taking the time, as Rick did, to thank a helpful writer is a nice variation from
these sometimes disheartening attitudes.
************
In a related thought, we sometimes see folks asking, on occasion repeatedly, for
the URLs to some source or another of something or another. People would do
well to realize that the internet is still fairly new. those highly consumer
aware industries like the general retail world are still trying to figure out
how to be effectively on the web, and many are not yet there. In our industry,
this is even more so. If you are an expert jeweler or a beginner, and are
looking for some resource or supplier, or whatever you wish, don't forget that
there are probably still many more suppliers of what you're looking for that are
NOT on the internet. At the wholesale level, things like gems, findings, larger
scale tooling, while you can find some suppliers on the net, you'll find a lot
more in the industry publications, like the JCK directory (go to the library,
folks) or in the Thomas Register, which is available online. Then use your
telephone as a voice communication tool, not just for your modem. Yeah, I know
this is a big bother. but don't forget that it's still the way to reach and do
business with the majority of the marketplace.
*************
As to long posts, there are no restrictions on the length of an original, text
only posting. Remember that posts should be in plain ascii text, as those in
this thread have been, and cannot include attached graphic files or the like.
There is no problem with such long posts.
However, when REPLYING to a long post, select (highlight with your mouse) enough
of the post to allow it to be referenced clearly, and then hit the reply button.
That quotes only the needed section of the prior post, and not the whole thing.
The reason is simply to save space on the news servers, and to insure proper
propogation of the message. Many news servers will refuse to post or process a
message that appears to contain only a large amount of quoted text, with little
or no new input. My own server is one such, and attempting to post Rick's reply
as sent (quoted the whole original message) generated an error message from my
news server. So I had to trim it. You should generally do the same. It's
considered good netiquette not to exceed a certain ratio of new input to quoted
text.
thanks.
Peter Rowe
Ann A. McGrath
Well said, Mr. Rowe,
> A couple thoughts... A number of people sometimes spend a considerable amount of
> time, for free, helping others over this and other online discussion groups.
> All too often, these days, recipients of that help somehow find it easy to take
> it for granted [snip]
>
> Taking the time, as Rick did, to thank a helpful writer is a nice variation from
> these sometimes disheartening attitudes.
Politeness, e.g. saying Please and Thank you, is the lubricant that keeps
human interactions from getting stuck due to interpersonal friction.
This is a good moment to say Thank you, to you, Peter Rowe. You do yeoman
service keeping this newsgroup sane and polite, and in keeping the
messages flowing in an expeditious manner.
I'm glad to help out if I can (I learn more here than I contribute; you
may find some of my suggestions on rec.crafts.misc) but it sure makes me
feel like it was time well spent if I get a thank you.
> In a related thought, we sometimes see folks asking, on occasion repeatedly, for
> the URLs to some source or another of something or another. People would do
> well to realize that the internet is still fairly new. those highly consumer
> aware industries like the general retail world are still trying to figure out
> how to be effectively on the web, and many are not yet there. In our industry,
> this is even more so. If you are an expert jeweler or a beginner, and are
> looking for some resource or supplier, or whatever you wish, don't forget that
> there are probably still many more suppliers of what you're looking for that are
> NOT on the internet.
Furthermore, although I have done considerable commerce via phone, fax
and snail, I _very_much_ appreciate my local craft supply sources.
For one, if I am having trouble figuring out a technique, or what tool
will save my poor aching fingers, my friendly vendor is likely to take
the time to show me how it is done or what to use. He's even told me
about a technique that I do NOT want to get involved with. *grin* I'm so
glad I asked before diving in.
For another, if there is something I want in quantities that do not make
it economical for me to order from my super supplier on the Left coast,
but that I tend to want a few of, and often enough, (read, I run out of
them between big orders), he's likely to order some and keep them on hand
for me. I _know_ I'm not the only one to use these things. *grin* He's
even sent some folks to me to see if I had surplus of something he
doesn't carry.
Treasure your local suppliers. If you didn't have them, there would be
no alternative to dealing long distance.
--
Ann A. McGrath
aamc...@fast.net
Magpie's Nest
Easton, PA
daBEADlady
nhw...@my-deja.com
> considered good netiquette not to exceed a certain ratio of new input
to quoted
> text.
>
> thanks.
>
> Peter Rowe
>
You are right, some people do take replies for granted. But I have been
very lucky. Many people have sent direct mails ONLY to say thanks, and
actually I am overwhelmed. (Felipe, the original inquirer actually took
the trouble to find a HINDI thank you note together with some
photographs of ancient Mayan sites from his native Mexico!)
...And I suddenly realised WHY so many people spend so much time
helping others over the Internet.
IT FEELS SO GOOD!
Regards,
Nariman H. Wadia,
consultant.
Rick Bailey
tops them both.