Civ 2 questions...
Bret Hillier
How come people are always talking about building King Richards Crusade
and Shakes theatre together? Why does Shakes T. help?
What wonders do you consider the most important early on in the game?
Do power plants become useless when the hoover dam wonder is made? I did
this and then could not build power plants any more.
Bret.
Perry Quan
>How come people are always talking about building King Richards Crusade
>and Shakes theatre together? Why does Shakes T. help?
King Richard's Crusade gives you extra shields. Shakespeare's Theatre
gives you a city with no unhappy people. With this combination, you
can support a HUGE military force from the city without incurring
unhappy people.
>What wonders do you consider the most important early on in the game?
The Lighthouse is good for getting some more speed out of the tiremes
and they stand a good chance of getting across open ocean.
>Do power plants become useless when the hoover dam wonder is made? I did
>this and then could not build power plants any more.
Yep.
ari...@hitel.kol.co.kr
Bret Hillier (bhi...@cs.auckland.ac.nz) wrote:
: How come people are always talking about building King Richards Crusade
: and Shakes theatre together? Why does Shakes T. help?
Because King Richard Crusade will help you to make a city produce
more shields(X2), and Shakeman(hmm :)'s Theatre makes a whole bunch
of citizens content in one city - no more civil disorder in that city.
Especially when you went Democracy this will be a BIG boost in your army
cause wherever units(produced from that city of course) are they will not
make citizens unhappy.
: What wonders do you consider the most important early on in the game?
I build pyramid first, then great wall, etc.
: Do power plants become useless when the hoover dam wonder is made? I did
: this and then could not build power plants any more.
I think what you said is right.
: Bret.
Hope this helps!
Peace,
Loner
Chris Byler
Perry Quan (gu...@inforamp.net) wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 09:42:48 +1200, bhi...@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Bret
> >How come people are always talking about building King Richards Crusade
> >and Shakes theatre together? Why does Shakes T. help?
> King Richard's Crusade gives you extra shields. Shakespeare's Theatre
> gives you a city with no unhappy people. With this combination, you
> can support a HUGE military force from the city without incurring
> unhappy people.
Right. You get no benefit from Shakespeare in this way other than in Republic
or Democracy.
The other way is if you just put them in your biggest city, you won't have to
worry about riots and it will get a lot of shields from all the population.
This is helpful if you have a city with lots of grasslands but not a lot of
shield capacity (although with few shields it's hard to build KRC).
> >What wonders do you consider the most important early on in the game?
> The Lighthouse is good for getting some more speed out of the tiremes
> and they stand a good chance of getting across open ocean.
The Lighthouse sucks. Go for the Pyramids, the Great Wall if at war or on
higher barbarian levels, and Marco Polo. (When you have Marco Polo, trade
tech like crazy, but prefer to trade with the more primitive civs.) Sun Tzu
is helpful if you are stuck with one or more early land wars.
If you are at peace and fairly rich you may want to try building Colossus,
Copernicus' Observatory, and Newton's College in the same city. (Keep up with
libraries and universities, too.) You can get sickening amounts of science
this way if you really want to. It helps to get Theory of Gravity early so
you can build Newton faster.. think of it as an investment.
> >Do power plants become useless when the hoover dam wonder is made? I did
> >this and then could not build power plants any more.
> Yep.
Yes, and so do hydro and nuclear plants. Solar plants, however, do not become
useless b/c they still reduce pollution more than Hoover and help stop global
warming.
Chris
Ken Fishkin
Bret Hillier wrote:
> What wonders do you consider the most important early on in the game?1) Great Library
2) Great Library
3) Great Library
4) Mike's chapel
--
Ken Fishkin fis...@acm.org
http://www.parc.xerox.com/fishkin
A.P.S. Ainslie
bhi...@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Bret Hillier) wrote:
>How come people are always talking about building King Richards Crusade
>and Shakes theatre together? Why does Shakes T. help?
Dick gives you lots of shields to build and _support_ lots of units from that
city. Will allows you to have them supported from that city without causing
unhappiness. This means that the Will and Dick combination allows the
support of a big army in Republic or Democracy without unhappiness problems.
Once the city is losing a lot of shields to support, you just send new units
from other cities via the Will/Dick city to support them from there.
>What wonders do you consider the most important early on in the game?
As previously mentioned, Great Library is very important, but mainly to
prevent the computer getting its mitts on it - I tend only to get 2 or three
advances from it, despite building as soon as I can - I tend to acquire odd
advances I haven't got by conquest. Pyramids is nice, but I seem to usually
get that by conquest early on - it often seems to be built by a neighbour.
Really at that stage I'm making settlers, not caravans. Otherwise, Sun Tzu
and Michaelangelo are biggies, followed by Leonardo's and Will/Dick. The
trade and science ones I get by conquest or building because I've nothing
better to do, once I've got knights, I'm doing some invading usually.
Admittedly, if you can pyramid them, they can produce serious beakers - I've
had over 200, and someone has reckoned that 800 is possible in theory.
Later - Adam Smith is excellent, Statue of Liberty very good, especially in
Democracy, also UN.
>Do power plants become useless when the hoover dam wonder is made? I did
>this and then could not build power plants any more.
My manual's at home, but I think Hydro's supercede power plants (i.e. when
you can build hydro's, you can no longer build power plants. Since
building Hoover effectively builds a hydro in each city , you are no longer
able to build another one and the option disappears. Bit like Research labs
disappearing with SETI.
>
>Bret.
Alastair Ainslie
But where his rude hut by the Danube lay,
There were his young barbarians all at play,
There was their Dacian mother - he, their sire,
Butchered to make a Roman holiday.
Childe Harold's Pilgrimage, Byron
Christian Buhl
Perry Quan (gu...@inforamp.net) wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 09:42:48 +1200, bhi...@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Bret
> Hillier) wrote:
> >How come people are always talking about building King Richards Crusade
> >and Shakes theatre together? Why does Shakes T. help?
> King Richard's Crusade gives you extra shields. Shakespeare's Theatre
> gives you a city with no unhappy people. With this combination, you
> can support a HUGE military force from the city without incurring
> unhappy people.
> >What wonders do you consider the most important early on in the game?
By far the most important improvement is the Pyramids. The boost you get
from having a granary in every city is incalcuble. I think that after the
Pyramids, the most important WOW is Leonardo's Workshop. The Lighthouse is
good if you're keen on sea exploration, but I personally rarely build any
sort of naval force (my navy usually consists of a few ships I captured
after buying enemy coastal cities), why? I don't know, I just prefer land
conquest (and consequently, usually play with large land mass and one or
two large continents). Anyway, I personally see King Richard's Crusade as
an aid to netting many more of the WOW's than your opponents. With the
production boost from KRC (Kentucky Ried Chicken?), it becomes easier to
get more of the WOW's, especially in a city that's already geared for
production. In one game, I managed to get more than 15 of the WOW's in one
city, largely thanks to King Richard's Crusade. (Though this was only on
Prince, where's its significantly easier to beat the computer to a WOW)
> The Lighthouse is good for getting some more speed out of the tiremes
> and they stand a good chance of getting across open ocean.
> >Do power plants become useless when the hoover dam wonder is made? I did
> >this and then could not build power plants any more.
> Yep.
They're not really useless. The thing is, you can only have one plany
(hydro, power, nuclear, or solar) in any city, since they each serve the
same basic function, and since Hoover gives you a hydro in every city, you
don't need a power plant, which is in all ways inferior, in any city. It
still allows you to build a solar because it is better at reducing
pollution.
/----------\ Christian M. Buhl /----------------------\
|TOY SCOUTS| virtual programmer |ALTERNATE TECHNOLOGIES|
\----------/ \----------------------/
\__()__/University of Central Florida University\__()__/
||Insitute for Simulation and Training High||
/ \Visual Systems Laboratory School/ \
| |Virtual Reality Research Team Engineering| |
http://www.vsl.ist.ucf.edu/~buhl/home.html
Your Name
In article <31C822...@parc.xerox.com>, fis...@parc.xerox.com
says...
>
>Bret Hillier wrote:
>
>> What wonders do you consider the most important early on in the
game?
1. Great Library..Even if you lead tech race..they dont get them for
free then pass them to everyone else.
2. Colossus in a city with high trade potential..like wine,gold etc.
Plan on Cop.Observ. and Issac New. College in the same city..Very
powerful.
3.Of course Leo's Workshop..When you discover explosives your many
Settlers will become Engineers.
4.Mikes Chapel and J.S. Bachs so you can go Demo ASAP and stay there
the rest of the game. Remember a Courthouse in a Democracy cause one
content to go happy.
I always am producing caravans for trade and for stockpiling. Theres
nothing like getting that critical science advance and building a great
wonder immediatly
Remember that a Comp. Civ can and do switch WoW's on you, dont delay on
that critical Wow.
Richard Mercer
In <4qc0no$a...@news.cis.okstate.edu> Your Name wrote:
> In article <31C822...@parc.xerox.com>, fis...@parc.xerox.com
> says...
> >
> >Bret Hillier wrote:
> >
> >> What wonders do you consider the most important early on in the
> game?
>
> 1. Great Library..Even if you lead tech race..they dont get them for
> free then pass them to everyone else.
>
around to the others, so the effect of a CP having the Great Library is
minimal, unless they get it very early before CPs discover each other.
OTOH, it can be helpful, even if you lead the tech race, by allowing you to
concentrate your research efforts in certain directions and letting the other
civs pull you along in the directions you ignore.
> 2. Colossus in a city with high trade potential..like wine,gold etc.
> Plan on Cop.Observ. and Issac New. College in the same city..Very
> powerful.
Yes. However CPs also value Colossus, so it needs to be built in a city with
substantial production too.
Unless you have discovered trade early, you could lose this one to the CPs if
you try to build it in a city with high trade and low production.
My strategy: Barring ideal circumstances, build it in a coastal city with
lots of production. The trade will come, when you start filling in sea
squares.
>
> 3.Of course Leo's Workshop..When you discover explosives your many
> Settlers will become Engineers.
Yes; One bummer I haven't seen mentioned here -- Frigates turn into
Transports!
While Frigates had firepower, Transports have none, so your navy has suddenly
become toothless.
(A small price to pay.)
> 4.Mikes Chapel and J.S. Bachs so you can go Demo ASAP and stay there
> the rest of the game. Remember a Courthouse in a Democracy cause one
> content to go happy.
Yes; I think the Chapel is essential at higher difficulty levels. Bach is
nice but not necessary; I often find myself not building it as Theology is a
dead-end tech that I usually bypass for more important things.
>
> I always am producing caravans for trade and for stockpiling. Theres
> nothing like getting that critical science advance and building a great
> wonder immediatly
Building WoWs has to be balanced with the establishment of trade routes,
which also pay high dividends as the game progresses. It's a tough choice
sometimes; I usually go with the trade route for a caravan carrying a hot
commodity, and dump it on a WoW when it's carrying something nobody wants.
>
> Remember that a Comp. Civ can and do switch WoW's on you, dont delay on
> that critical Wow.
>
In many cases the only way to be sure of getting a critical WoW is to be the
first to develop the required tech. Otherwise some CP that lost out on the
last 2 WoW's will be sitting on a pile of WoW shields and build it in one
turn.
--
Richard Mercer
ric...@seuss.math.wright.edu
"I meant what I said and I said what I meant,
An elephant's faithful, one hundred per cent."
Gordon Moore
Between Civilization 2 and Caesar II, which is the better game?
TVspace
>Between Civilization 2 and Caesar II, which is the better game?
Apples and oranges. Civ 2 is a game in which you race against 6 other
civilizations in a competition for resources and the "4 E's", Caesar II is
basically Sim City 2000 with the addition of limited military engagements.
They are both great games, it just depends on your taste. Personally I
find Civ2 to be more addictive and have better replay value, particularly
with the large number of scenarios available for downloading on the net.
***********************Patrick Williams**************************
Alex Chou
About the King Richard/Shakespeare combo -- The Crusades actually
expires rather quickly, so the greatest use I see for the Wonder
is merely to build more Wonders. Shakespeare is actually a pretty
good stand-alone Wonder. Late in the game, it allows you to build
up a huge navy from one city and send them out w/o worrying about
discontent. Same goes for Bombers and Cruise Missiles.
Important early wonders:
1) Pyramids -- Good for growth early in the game, although later
on it doesn't really matter because most of your city growth
will be thru city celebrations in a Democracy or Republic.
2) Great Library -- This AWESOME wonder allows you to focus most,
if not all, your trade on taxes and luxuries. Since the CP's
love swapping (or giving away) techs, you can use the Library
to keep up w/ Science. This way, you get tons of money to use
to bribe, buy up Wonders, and eventually buy up spaceship parts.
3) Michael's Chapel
4) Leo's Workshop
5) Great Wall is nice, but not a necessity, since towards the
beginning, the CP's are rather friendly. The instant City
Walls is the best benefit.
Speaking of Wonders, I'm trying out the Great-Library-low-science
strategy. It works like a charm! I also have Copernicus and Newton
in a pop 30 city (lots of scientists) w/ tons of trade (roads, ocean).
I have the science rate at 0%, and my 80% tax nets me several hundred
gold each turn! Yet, my single city produces 180 flasks per turn,
good enough for one advance every 10 turns (researching things like
Communism and Electricity, normal world, Emperor level). Great Library
and espionage handles the rest of my tech advances. Try it out some
day if you're always strapped for cash.
- Alex
Lee Cole
In article <4qc5sq$1...@mercury.wright.edu>, ric...@seuss.math.wright.edu (Richard Mercer)
<4qc0no$a...@news.cis.okstate.edu> wrote:
|In <4qc0no$a...@news.cis.okstate.edu> Your Name wrote:
|> In article <31C822...@parc.xerox.com>, fis...@parc.xerox.com
|> says...
|> 1. Great Library..Even if you lead tech race..they dont get them for
|> free then pass them to everyone else.
|> 2. Colossus in a city with high trade potential..like wine,gold etc.
|> Plan on Cop.Observ. and Issac New. College in the same city..Very
|> powerful.
|> 3.Of course Leo's Workshop..When you discover explosives your many
|> Settlers will become Engineers.
|
|> 4.Mikes Chapel and J.S. Bachs so you can go Demo ASAP and stay there
|> the rest of the game. Remember a Courthouse in a Democracy cause one
|> content to go happy.
I can't believe you guys don't put the Trading Post in the top four. I find
it to be the most valuable WOW of all. Especially if you go after it early.
Also Oracle. I usually go after Oracle, Trading Post, Leo's Workshop, Mike's
Chapel, and J.S. Bach.
Lee Cole
Tuomas Seijavuori
nor...@this.address (Lee Cole) writes:
>I can't believe you guys don't put the Trading Post in the top four. I find
>it to be the most valuable WOW of all. Especially if you go after it early.
>Also Oracle. I usually go after Oracle, Trading Post, Leo's Workshop, Mike'
>Chapel, and J.S. Bach.
It depends so much upon the style one playes. Mine is obviously a
combo of the two because I partly agree with all of you. Part of the
fun is to try a totally different approach sometimes. I'll try the GL
a.s.a.p. in my next game. It sounds promising. Once I built Adam
Smith's as my first wonder and I did well in that game too (92% on
Emperor if my memory serves me). I know it sounds odd.
--
Tuomas Seijavuori, tuo...@hut.fi
Mark Heyes
Surely the best Wonders must be:
Great Library (Free Advances)
Michaelangelos Chapel (Saves building Cathedrals)
Women's Sufferage (Reduces unhappyness when units are out of cities)
Hoover Dam (Just need to build a factory in a city to see massive jump in
shield Production)
Most Wonders help in some way but I find the above list really invaluable.
mhe...@midland.co.nz (Mark Heyes)
A winner never quits and a quitter never wins
Mr Justin J Watkins
Mark Heyes (mhe...@midland.co.nz) wrote:
: Surely the best Wonders must be:
: Great Library (Free Advances)
: Michaelangelos Chapel (Saves building Cathedrals)
: Women's Sufferage (Reduces unhappyness when units are out of cities)
: Hoover Dam (Just need to build a factory in a city to see massive jump in
: shield Production)
: Most Wonders help in some way but I find the above list really invaluable.
Does anyone have a list already compiled which gives all the
details about each wonder? The information I am looking for is
as follows: Wonder name, required civ advance, cost to produce,
effects (as in Mark's example) and obsoletion details. This list
should form part of the FAQ. If anyone has gone throught the pedia
to dig it out, would you be willing to share it with the rest of us?
Many thanks,
Justin
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Justin Watkins, Dept of Physics, 01483 259329
University of Surrey, Guildford j .wat...@surrey.ac.uk
GU2 5XH, UK http://phoenix.bath.ac.uk/~justinw
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr Justin J Watkins
Lee Cole (nor...@this.address) wrote:
: I can't believe you guys don't put the Trading Post in the top four. I find
: it to be the most valuable WOW of all. Especially if you go after it early.
Trading Post? Perhaps you could expand - or is it called
something else where I come from?
Your Name
In article <4qma1n$o...@info-server.surrey.ac.uk>, phs...@surrey.ac.uk
says...
>
>
>
>Trading Post? Perhaps you could expand - or is it called
>something else where I come from?
>
>Justin
>--
normally cost one coin. It has a major impact when your empire gets
large. A top Wow.
The Oracle is not on my top ten list of Wow's. It just doesnt seem
worth the one sedated citizen.
djf
Alex Chou
: Does anyone have a list already compiled which gives all the
: as follows: Wonder name, required civ advance, cost to produce,
: effects (as in Mark's example) and obsoletion details. This list
: should form part of the FAQ. If anyone has gone throught the pedia
: to dig it out, would you be willing to share it with the rest of us?
Gamelord had exactly that on their web page a while ago. The URL is:
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to access that page for the past
couple weeks, for whatever reason. And the current Wonders FAQ isn't
as well done as it was before. It used to be a big massive list of
all the Wonders, and you can just download the file or print it out.
Now the 28 Wonders are under 28 different links, which are grouped
together under 4 different links. Rather cumbersome.
I'm gonna look into putting all that info on a web page soon (along
w/ some personal comments). I'll let you guys know when it's ready.
- Alex
Lee Cole
In article <4qma1n$o...@info-server.surrey.ac.uk>, phs...@surrey.ac.uk (Mr Justin J Watkins) wrote:
|Lee Cole (nor...@this.address) wrote:
|
|: I can't believe you guys don't put the Trading Post in the top four. I find
|: it to be the most valuable WOW of all. Especially if you go after it early.
|
|
|something else where I come from?
Where you come from it is called "Adam Smith's Trading Company". Sorry, at my
age I sometimes forget the exact name of these Wonders, and the p_ss poor
manual that comes with CIV II does not even include a list of the WONDERS,
UNITS, or IMPROVEMENTS. You must load a 11 Meg. program to look anything up.
In any case, the economic advantages of ASTC (Trading Co.) are fantastic, and
they don't expire. I apologise if my 'trading posts' reference was confusing.
Lee Cole
|
|Justin
|--
Richard Mercer
>
> The Oracle is not on my top ten list of Wow's. It just doesnt seem
> worth the one sedated citizen.
> djf
>
> >Justin Watkins, Dept of Physics, 01483 259329
> >University of Surrey, Guildford j .wat...@surrey.ac.uk
> >GU2 5XH, UK http://phoenix.bath.ac.uk/~justinw
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
However a temple already makes TWO unhappy citizens content if you have
Mysticism, as you must to build the Oracle. Therefore in a civ with the
Oracle, each temple makes FOUR unhappy citizens content. This is incredibly
valuable at higher difficulty levels, e.g. at emperor level at city with a
garrison of two military units and a temple can reach a population of 8
without going into disorder, with no luxuries, colosseum, or cathedral.
(Assume govt is Monarchy or other where garrisons are useful.)
Compare this to building Hanging Gardens. In a size 8 city with a garrison of
two military units and a temple, you would have 1 happy citizen (from
Gardens), 5 content, and 2 unhappy; even assuming you have Mysticism, you
would go into disorder. (In the city where Hanging Gardens was built you
would of course be OK.)
Your Name
ric...@seuss.math.wright.eduÛ says...
>
>In <4qmi16$o...@news.cis.okstate.edu> Your Name wrote:
>>
>> The Oracle is not on my top ten list of Wow's. It just doesnt seem
>> worth the one sedated citizen.
>> djf
>>
>
was I grew faster than my ability to keep them happy. The Oracle may
save me. Thanks djf
A.P.S. Ainslie
nor...@this.address (Lee Cole) wrote:
<snip>
Sorry, at my
>age I sometimes forget the exact name of these Wonders, and the p_ss poor
>manual that comes with CIV II does not even include a list of the WONDERS,
>UNITS, or IMPROVEMENTS. You must load a 11 Meg. program to look anything
up.
Not necessarily - now that I've played Civ2 a bit, I just look things up via
the Goals thing when I'm offered a new advance to research or via F6, the
Science Advisor. It's a bit of a fiddle, and you only get the cut down
version, but that's all you need (especially compared to the disk space-
since Win95 arrived, things have got a bit tight - and yes, I know 1Gb drives
are cheap at the moment). You can only access info about known techs via F6
(click on its name), though (I think). Any way, via Goals, you can access
techs, units, and improvements (including Wonders) and get Help about them as
well as the techs required to achieve them.
Second you on Adam Smith - makes a heck of a difference
Patrick R. Brown
A.P.S. Ainslie wrote:
>
> nor...@this.address (Lee Cole) wrote:
> <snip>
> Sorry, at my
> >age I sometimes forget the exact name of these Wonders, and the p_ss poor
> >manual that comes with CIV II does not even include a list of the WONDERS,
> >UNITS, or IMPROVEMENTS. You must load a 11 Meg. program to look anything
> up.
Civ2 also has a built-in "browser" that you can get to if you remove the 11 meg
program (or alternately rename it). It also frees up 11 MB on your drive!
Pat
--
Patrick R. Brown (pbr...@austin.ibm.com) IBM Visual Systems, OpenGL Developer
Milt Fang
Yup, Civ 2 is the better!! It lets you keep playing until you drop with
all the maps & scenarios like Warcraft 2
Lee Cole
In article <31D96C...@austin.ibm.com>, "Patrick R. Brown" <pbr...@austin.ibm.com>
<31C822...@parc.xerox.com>
<4qc5sq$1...@mercury.wright.edu>
<4qe0m6$o...@castle.nando.net>
<4qma1n$o...@info-server.surrey.ac.uk>
<4qrc0a$5...@castle.nando.net> <4r95hm$878...@leeds.ac.uk> wrote:
|A.P.S. Ainslie wrote:
|>
|> nor...@this.address (Lee Cole) wrote:
|> <snip>
|> Sorry, at my
|> >age I sometimes forget the exact name of these Wonders, and the p_ss poor
|> >manual that comes with CIV II does not even include a list of the WONDERS,
|> >UNITS, or IMPROVEMENTS. You must load a 11 Meg. program to look anything
|> up.
|
|Civ2 also has a built-in "browser" that you can get to if you remove the 11 meg
|program (or alternately rename it). It also frees up 11 MB on your drive!
|
that CIV II uses the smaller 'pedia' and that works great, but when I am NOT
playing CIV II and need to look up something (such as replying to a query
here) since the manual contains no WONDERS list, no UNITS list, and no
ADVANCEMENTS list, I must resort back to that 11 Meg. MEM_HOG.EXE to obtain
info.
The point that I was making was:
1) The CIV II manual sucks.
2) The CIV II Civopedia sucks (11 Meg. worth).
3) The alternate 'pedia' cannot (that I know of) be loaded outside of the
game.
If anyone knows how to get to the alternate Civopedia as a stand alone
program, please post.
Lee Cole