Drunk Driving
Charlo
driving laws.
Simple solution moron, don't drink and drive.
If you've been drinking don't drive how hard a concept is that to wrap
yourself around Jethro??
Brent Nelson
vulnerable to these new laws. Guilt has nothing to do with it when there is
no judicial checks on what the police do. Even if you are innocent you
loose. That is the complaint.
--brent nelson
rrto...@sprint.ca (Charlo) wrote in <O5i24.9243$t12.370899@newscontent-
01.sprint.ca>:
Darrin Gallant
GUILTY, Jethro ;oP
Are you talking about "innocent" people getting breathalyser tests and
failing? Hmmm... must have "burped" while being tested then eh? Couldn't
possibly be drinking and driving huh?
Wow. I'm with Charlo on this one (and that's surprising to even me ;oP), but
I think it's fantastic. You drink and drive, you get your license taken
away. Think of all the morons out there who D&D and DON'T get caught.
If most people out there think it would be better to wait for innocent
families to be killed on our roads by the complete fuckjobs known as DUI
cases, please, voice your "arguments" here so we may know why you feel that
way, because I for one am completely dumbfounded as to why anyone would
think this new system is anything _but_ just.
Sober up before writing your replies too ;o)
--
Regards,
========================================
Darrin Gallant
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
darrin (dot) gallant (at) home (dot) com
"Brent Nelson" <nels...@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:8E92DA2A5bd...@10.1.1.2...
Simple Simon
"Darrin Gallant" <n...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xem24.102624$V4.10...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com...
> Wrong. If you blow over the legal limit and you're behind a wheel, you ARE
> GUILTY, Jethro ;oP
>
> Are you talking about "innocent" people getting breathalyser tests and
> failing? Hmmm... must have "burped" while being tested then eh? Couldn't
> possibly be drinking and driving huh?
Uhm... how about if a cop pulls you over and says, "Nice case of bed head,
fall asleep on the bar?" and then asks for your licence. All he needs to do
is THINK that you MAY have been drinking. If you pass the breathalyzer test,
he can still yank your licence.
SS
Darrin Gallant
Also, I was under the impression that if you failed a breathalyser, they
then took blood as a more accurate estimation of blood-alcohol-level.
I'm probably wrong, so someone please confirm or correct us - preferably
someone in the police force or judicial branch.
I DO think if drivers are PROVEN DUI, then their licenses should be yanked,
no question. However, if the police can arbitrarily take your license away
without tests of any kind, that's not really very scientific or fair, I
agree.
Isn't the system like this? : ... you get your license taken immediately,
and are issued a temp license good for 20 days. After that, you are
suspended for 3 months (first offence). I think a court appearance would be
scheduled in that initial 20 days, in which one could hopefully prove that
an officer wrongly, and without proper testing, removed their driving
privileges, and have them reinstated by the judge. I just know we'll have
the "guilty until proven innocent" evangelists in this thread now - and yes,
I admit, it is easy for me to take this position, having never consumed
alcohol and driven afterward before. I HAVE seen the effects of DUI
accidents first hand also, so please understand my bias here also.
Hey, at least we don't have the death penalty for DUI like some
middle-eastern countries, eh? ;oD
"Simple Simon" <bitb...@home.com> wrote in message
news:rCm24.22401$f5.2...@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com...
sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> The idea is that even if you don't drink and drive, you are just as
> vulnerable to these new laws. Guilt has nothing to do with it when there is
> no judicial checks on what the police do. Even if you are innocent you
> loose. That is the complaint.
It's hard to be vulnerable if you haven't been drinking. You must blow over
the legal limit, or refuse to blow. If you haven't been drinking, there's no
reason to refuse to blow.
Thus, the only way you could get inconvenienced by this law if you're not
drinking is if the breathalyzer is faulty. In that case, you can demand a
blood test. It is unlikely the blood test will show you over the limit if you
haven't been drinking.
--
Scott Barker sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
Linux Consultant http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott
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sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> Uhm... how about if a cop pulls you over and says, "Nice case of bed head,
> fall asleep on the bar?" and then asks for your licence. All he needs to do
> is THINK that you MAY have been drinking. If you pass the breathalyzer test,
> he can still yank your licence.
Does anyone have the exact text of the law or a URL pointing to it? According
to the report I've read, you can only get your license suspended if you are
over the limit or refuse the breath and/or blood test.
There is another law in place which allows the police to boot or impound your
car if they think you are a menace on the roadway, but it's separate from this
new law.
--
Scott Barker sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
Linux Consultant http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott
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haven't."
- Irvin S. Cobb
Brent Nelson
devious invention of trees, corners and other cars. However, it is not 100%
effective.
--brent nelson
n...@nospam.com (Darrin Gallant) wrote in
Brent Nelson
<82fngk$gpo$1...@galileo.mostlylinux.ab.ca>:
>On Sun, 05 Dec 1999 04:43:40 GMT, Brent Nelson
><nels...@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> wrote:
>> The idea is that even if you don't drink and drive, you are just as
>> vulnerable to these new laws. Guilt has nothing to do with it when
>> there is no judicial checks on what the police do. Even if you are
>> innocent you loose. That is the complaint.
>
>It's hard to be vulnerable if you haven't been drinking. You must blow
>over the legal limit, or refuse to blow. If you haven't been drinking,
>there's no reason to refuse to blow.
>
>Thus, the only way you could get inconvenienced by this law if you're
>not drinking is if the breathalyzer is faulty. In that case, you can
>demand a blood test. It is unlikely the blood test will show you over
>the limit if you haven't been drinking.
>
There are lots of things that cause non-drunk people to blow over the
limit. Some people blow over from eating oranges (I can't prove this,
but I remember it from somewhere).
If I just used mouthwash before hopping in the car, then got pulled over,
I would be screwed. I could either blow, and likely blow over, or I
could say "I will blow in a few minutes when the mouthwash effects have
gone away". This might be construed as a refusal to blow and I get my
license taken away anyhow.
Are you sure that you have the right to a blood test? Do they give blood
tests to everybody who blows over? How long does it take for the blood
test results? Wouldn't your license be cut up before the results came
back? Then you would have "license revoked due to DUI" on your insurance
record for a long time even though the blood test proved you innocent.
I might not mind the punishment if it was implemented in a different way.
It would be better if you had a court date within 20 days in which the
judge took away your license if you don't have a valid argument. I just
don't like the cops doing everything at the side of the road.
--brent nelson
Jim HANDS &/or Sarah CURRAN
A lot of what I am reading here is WRONG. And alarmist.
NOTHING about the Impaired Driving investigation has changed. An
investigator still needs to have grounds to read the Breath Demand, and the
Administrative License Suspension (ALS) takes place AFTER the driver blows
over 80 mgs% or Refuses. An ALS cannot be issued for a "straight" Impaired
Driving charge, just one of the above.
While it makes for dramatic TV commercials, your Drivers License isn't cut
up at roadside (they haven't issued us scissors!) it is made an Exhibit, and
slated for destruction if the ALS isn't successfully appealed.
If the Driver is issued the ALS and wants to appeal it, that's what the
21-day Appeal period is for. The Driver can pay $100 for a 'paper' review
or $200 for a 'live' review; during this review, all the relevant documents
are reviewed by the Appeals Board, including the Certificate of Analysis
Issued by a Qualified Technician, (the Breath Certificate)which shows the
Test results.
Further, the ALS for a Refusal or Over 80 mgs % where an Injury or Death was
caused is 6 months, not 3, with the same 21 day Appeal period.
In response to some further points on this thread:
-A suspected Impaired Driver DOES NOT have the right to demand a Blood Test
when s/he is able to provide breath.
-Eating oranges WILL NOT affect a Breath Test.
-If there is an internal error in the BAC Datamaster C (The Criminal
Code-Approved breath-Testing Instrument the Calgary Police Service uses) it
will be indicated via Error Messages and will require another Suitable
Sample of Breath to be taken or the Driver to be taken before another
Instrument.
Hope this helps clarify he issue.
Cst. Jim HANDS
6 District
Calgary Police Service
Qualified Breath Technician
"Simple Simon" <bitb...@home.com> wrote in message
news:rCm24.22401$f5.2...@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com...
> Hi!
>
> "Darrin Gallant" <n...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:Xem24.102624$V4.10...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com...
> > Wrong. If you blow over the legal limit and you're behind a wheel, you
ARE
> > GUILTY, Jethro ;oP
> >
> > Are you talking about "innocent" people getting breathalyser tests and
> > failing? Hmmm... must have "burped" while being tested then eh? Couldn't
> > possibly be drinking and driving huh?
>
> Uhm... how about if a cop pulls you over and says, "Nice case of bed head,
> fall asleep on the bar?" and then asks for your licence. All he needs to
do
> is THINK that you MAY have been drinking. If you pass the breathalyzer
test,
> he can still yank your licence.
>
> SS
>
>
sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> The important clause here is the "reasonable and provable
> grounds" part. It's a much less rigourous criterion than the
> usual "beyond a reasonable doubt" which is usually required
> for criminal cases. As usual, the ends do not justify the
> means.
Perhaps, but sections b)(i) and b)(ii) seem to say quite clearly that it is
not the officer's judgement which decides, it is "an analysis of the breath or
blood" or "refusal, without a reasonable excuse, to comply with a [test]".
The only time the officer gets to make a judgement call is in whether or not
to believe the breathalyzer correctly shows the accused as over the limit.
So, basically, we are not at the mercy of the policeman, but rather at the
mercy of the testing equipment and our own co-operation with the testing. This
is not the draconian law the "rights" activists are making it out to be. It's
still not perfect, but it's better than letting people drink and drive.
--
Scott Barker sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
Linux Consultant http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott
Looking for a husband? Know anyone looking for a husband? Well, I'm looking
for a wife. See http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott/wife.shtml
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look out."
- G. C. Lichtenberg
sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> There are lots of things that cause non-drunk people to blow over the
> limit. Some people blow over from eating oranges (I can't prove this,
> but I remember it from somewhere).
Please help the discussion along by not resorting to anecdotes or urban
legends. If you have direct evidence which justifies your position in the
debate, please present it. I don't mean to sound harsh, but a debate is
useless if it reduces to "well, I heard that my mother's cousin's co-worker's
husband's brother said..."
> If I just used mouthwash before hopping in the car, then got pulled over,
> I would be screwed. I could either blow, and likely blow over, or I
> could say "I will blow in a few minutes when the mouthwash effects have
> gone away". This might be construed as a refusal to blow and I get my
> license taken away anyhow.
Why not demand the blood test? Mouthwash will not cause you to fail that one.
> Are you sure that you have the right to a blood test?
Yes, precisely because the breathalyzer can be inaccurrate as you point out
above. That is why:
> Do they give blood tests to everybody who blows over?
Yes. At least, that's what two police officers have told me on two different
occassions, and since they are directly involved, I assume they are correct.
> How long does it take for the blood test results?
This I don't know.
> Wouldn't your license be cut up before the results came back?
That would violate the part of the law that requires the officers have
"reasonable and probable grounds". They can't have *any* grounds if the
results aren't back yet.
> Then you would have "license revoked due to DUI" on your insurance
> record for a long time even though the blood test proved you innocent.
When you are aquitted of an offence, all record of it is supposed to be
expunged. In fact, there should be no record until you are found guilty. I
wonder how they are going to handle that part of the process with this new
law?
> I might not mind the punishment if it was implemented in a different way.
> It would be better if you had a court date within 20 days in which the
> judge took away your license if you don't have a valid argument. I just
> don't like the cops doing everything at the side of the road.
That would be better. But, how do we convince the taxpayers that more money
needs to be spent on justices to do this? Kinda like night court in the US.
--
Scott Barker sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
Linux Consultant http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott
Looking for a husband? Know anyone looking for a husband? Well, I'm looking
for a wife. See http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott/wife.shtml
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it"
- G.K.Chesterton
sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> -A suspected Impaired Driver DOES NOT have the right to demand a Blood Test
> when s/he is able to provide breath.
Out of curiosity, why not? It would seem to me that due to things such as
using mouthwash, the breathalyzer can be inaccurate. Unfortunately, I cannot
remember exact details, but I am aware of at least 1 case in Ontario where a
judge agreed with the accused that he had a right to demand more vigourous
testing (a blood test). If this demand has been upheld under a Criminal Code
charge, why not for the ALS?
--
Scott Barker sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
Linux Consultant http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott
Looking for a husband? Know anyone looking for a husband? Well, I'm looking
for a wife. See http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott/wife.shtml
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"Any coward can fight a battle when he's sure of winning; but give me the man
who has pluck to fight when he's sure of losing. That's my way; and there
are many victories worse than a defeat."
- George Eliot
Irina
<sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:82ic2q$p8o$1...@galileo.mostlylinux.ab.ca...
> On Mon, 06 Dec 1999 16:38:15 GMT, Roger Carbol <rca...@home.com> wrote:
> > The important clause here is the "reasonable and provable
> > grounds" part. It's a much less rigourous criterion than the
> > usual "beyond a reasonable doubt" which is usually required
> > for criminal cases. As usual, the ends do not justify the
> > means.
>
> Perhaps, but sections b)(i) and b)(ii) seem to say quite clearly that it
is
> not the officer's judgement which decides, it is "an analysis of the
breath or
> blood" or "refusal, without a reasonable excuse, to comply with a [test]".
> The only time the officer gets to make a judgement call is in whether or
not
> to believe the breathalyzer correctly shows the accused as over the limit.
So the breathalyzer can be wrong and people can be arrested or ticketed
although they are innocent? So what is the sense in blowing?
>
> So, basically, we are not at the mercy of the policeman, but rather at the
> mercy of the testing equipment and our own co-operation with the testing.
This
> is not the draconian law the "rights" activists are making it out to be.
It's
> still not perfect, but it's better than letting people drink and drive.
Yup, that's why we have those guys (I think they called themselves the
"ticket specialists") who used to advertise how they could get you off and
back on the road again. I never understood how the government could allow a
company like that to open.
Irina
>
> --
> Scott Barker sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> Linux Consultant http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott
>
> Looking for a husband? Know anyone looking for a husband? Well, I'm
looking
> for a wife. See http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott/wife.shtml
>
> Want a good deal on a personal computer in Calgary, Alberta, Canada?
> Visit http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott/computers.shtml
>
> [ Unsolicited commercial and junk e-mail will be proof-read for US$100 ]
>
Jim HANDS &/or Sarah CURRAN
Qualified to take Samples of Blood) for a few hours, and ties up our
hospital system unnecessarily. The Doctor also has the right to refuse to
do so if s/he feels it would endanger the Driver's safety, and most of them
don't seem to like to do so as they are not "in the Evidence Collecting
game" and generally don't like being Subpoenaed to court.
Don't forget, breath testing is not alchemy; there is a proven scientific
relationship between the amount of alcohol in a person's Deep Lung Breath
(where the blood/ oxygen exchange occurs) and the amount of alcohol in a
person's blood.
Calgary hasn't used the Borkenstein Breathalyzer for years; it was quite
subject to variations in readings from Interferents such as mouthwash; the
digitized and self- contained BAC Datamaster C screens for interferents and
can recognize them as such; besides, mouth alcohol (such as mouthwash)
dissipates quite quickly (usually less than 15 minutes) and the investigator
has to wait at least 20 minutes (it generally takes a lot longer than that)
between when the Driver is first stopped and performs the first test.
During this period the Driver will be searched and won't be allowed to take
anything by mouth. The Lawyer Contact in and of itself usually takes at
least an hour (not too many of THEM up at 4:00 a.m. :)).
I nor our Alcohol Section is aware of any such ruling in an Ontario Court.
Besides, the suspect is favored by the lower concentration of alcohol in
Breath vs. Blood, it works in their favor. The most accurate concentration
of alcohol in the body is in the Vitreous Humor (eye fluid) and that's
what's taken Post Mortem. We're trying to keep that kind of sampling to a
minimum.
Hope that helps.
Jim
--
.
.
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Remove NOSPAM to reply
<sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:82j6s2$r0r$1...@galileo.mostlylinux.ab.ca...
> On Tue, 07 Dec 1999 03:35:36 GMT, Jim HANDS &/or Sarah CURRAN
<jgh*s...@home.com> wrote:
> > -A suspected Impaired Driver DOES NOT have the right to demand a Blood
Test
> > when s/he is able to provide breath.
>
> Out of curiosity, why not? It would seem to me that due to things such as
> using mouthwash, the breathalyzer can be inaccurate. Unfortunately, I
cannot
> remember exact details, but I am aware of at least 1 case in Ontario where
a
> judge agreed with the accused that he had a right to demand more vigourous
> testing (a blood test). If this demand has been upheld under a Criminal
Code
> charge, why not for the ALS?
>
> --
> Scott Barker sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> Linux Consultant http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott
>
> Looking for a husband? Know anyone looking for a husband? Well, I'm
looking
> for a wife. See http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott/wife.shtml
>
> Want a good deal on a personal computer in Calgary, Alberta, Canada?
> Visit http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott/computers.shtml
>
> [ Unsolicited commercial and junk e-mail will be proof-read for US$100 ]
>
The Rooster
<sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:82ic2q$p8o$1...@galileo.mostlylinux.ab.ca...
> On Mon, 06 Dec 1999 16:38:15 GMT, Roger Carbol <rca...@home.com> wrote:
> > The important clause here is the "reasonable and provable
> > grounds" part. It's a much less rigourous criterion than the
> > usual "beyond a reasonable doubt" which is usually required
> > for criminal cases. As usual, the ends do not justify the
> > means.
>
> Perhaps, but sections b)(i) and b)(ii) seem to say quite clearly that it
is
> not the officer's judgement which decides, it is "an analysis of the
breath or
> blood" or "refusal, without a reasonable excuse, to comply with a [test]".
> The only time the officer gets to make a judgement call is in whether or
not
> to believe the breathalyzer correctly shows the accused as over the limit.
>
> mercy of the testing equipment and our own co-operation with the testing.
This
> is not the draconian law the "rights" activists are making it out to be.
It's
> still not perfect, but it's better than letting people drink and drive.
Scott,
Why couldn't the same effect be achieved after a trial? That is what I
have the hardest time understanding. I don't want to drink and drive, nor
do I want others to. If the Alberta govenrment wants to strip you of the
license they issed you after you have been convicted at trial of the
offense, then I have no complaint. Why the hurry to have it done on the
road and sidestep what I feel is one of the foundations of our legal system
(ie. the presumtion of innocence until proof of guilt at trial). There are
those ultra-morons who may well drive drunk while awaiting their trail date,
but these are probably the same idiots that would drive without their
license anyway.
The Rooster
>
> --
> Scott Barker sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> Linux Consultant http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott
>
> Looking for a husband? Know anyone looking for a husband? Well, I'm
looking
> for a wife. See http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott/wife.shtml
>
> Want a good deal on a personal computer in Calgary, Alberta, Canada?
> Visit http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott/computers.shtml
>
> [ Unsolicited commercial and junk e-mail will be proof-read for US$100 ]
>
The Rooster
Thanks for your practical perspective. Out of curiosity, what do I have
to pay for a "review" (read trial) of my case should I be charged with
Driving without due care and attention or Leaving the scene of an accident?
Also, can I have a lawyer present at my ALS review?
Thanks,
The Rooster
"Jim HANDS &/or Sarah CURRAN" <jgh*s...@home.com> wrote in message
news:cg%24.1084$Mz6.2...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...
> Allow me to clarify this.
>
> A lot of what I am reading here is WRONG. And alarmist.
>
> NOTHING about the Impaired Driving investigation has changed. An
> investigator still needs to have grounds to read the Breath Demand, and
the
> Administrative License Suspension (ALS) takes place AFTER the driver blows
> over 80 mgs% or Refuses. An ALS cannot be issued for a "straight"
Impaired
> Driving charge, just one of the above.
>
> While it makes for dramatic TV commercials, your Drivers License isn't cut
> up at roadside (they haven't issued us scissors!) it is made an Exhibit,
and
> slated for destruction if the ALS isn't successfully appealed.
>
> If the Driver is issued the ALS and wants to appeal it, that's what the
> 21-day Appeal period is for. The Driver can pay $100 for a 'paper' review
> or $200 for a 'live' review; during this review, all the relevant
documents
> are reviewed by the Appeals Board, including the Certificate of Analysis
> Issued by a Qualified Technician, (the Breath Certificate)which shows the
> Test results.
>
> Further, the ALS for a Refusal or Over 80 mgs % where an Injury or Death
was
> caused is 6 months, not 3, with the same 21 day Appeal period.
>
> In response to some further points on this thread:
>
> -A suspected Impaired Driver DOES NOT have the right to demand a Blood
Test
> when s/he is able to provide breath.
>
The Rooster
<sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:82j6s2$r0r$1...@galileo.mostlylinux.ab.ca...
> On Tue, 07 Dec 1999 03:35:36 GMT, Jim HANDS &/or Sarah CURRAN
<jgh*s...@home.com> wrote:
> > -A suspected Impaired Driver DOES NOT have the right to demand a Blood
Test
> > when s/he is able to provide breath.
>
> using mouthwash, the breathalyzer can be inaccurate. Unfortunately, I
cannot
> remember exact details, but I am aware of at least 1 case in Ontario where
a
> judge agreed with the accused that he had a right to demand more vigourous
> testing (a blood test). If this demand has been upheld under a Criminal
Code
> charge, why not for the ALS?
Scott,
to quote an intelligent man "That would be better. But, how do we convince
the taxpayers that more money needs to be spent on ...tecnicians and
equipment... to do this? Kinda like night court in the US."
;-)
The Rooster
>
> --
> Scott Barker sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> Linux Consultant http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott
>
> Looking for a husband? Know anyone looking for a husband? Well, I'm
looking
> for a wife. See http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott/wife.shtml
>
> Want a good deal on a personal computer in Calgary, Alberta, Canada?
> Visit http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott/computers.shtml
>
> [ Unsolicited commercial and junk e-mail will be proof-read for US$100 ]
>
Jim HANDS &/or Sarah CURRAN
or Fail to Remain (Hit and Run), unless of course you hire some form of
Representation, I would imagine. As for having a lawyer present at an ALS
review, I don't know for sure, but I would suspect that you can.
Jim
--
.
.
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"The Rooster" <mr_ro...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:onb34.7067$q7.4...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com...
> > -A suspected Impaired Driver DOES NOT have the right to demand a Blood
> Test
> > when s/he is able to provide breath.
> >
sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> So the breathalyzer can be wrong and people can be arrested or ticketed
> although they are innocent? So what is the sense in blowing?
You can also get a ticket when a radar gun is faulty. In the case of a faulty
radar gun, you can challenge in court. In the case of this new law, I would
think you could demand a blood test. A helpful officer has posted to this
newsgroup saying such a demand is not valid, but I'm sure someone will
challenge that with success.
> Yup, that's why we have those guys (I think they called themselves the
> "ticket specialists") who used to advertise how they could get you off and
> back on the road again. I never understood how the government could allow a
> company like that to open.
They are still around. A few of them, I think. The operate completely within
the bounds of the law, and are a useful check against possible abuse of the
system by police officers. Regrettably, the officers and prosecutors are not
always as well informed as the ticket specialists, and so guilty people are
often aquitted.
--
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"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds
himself no wiser than before," Bokonon tells us. "He is full of murderous
resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their
ignorance the hard way."
- Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> Why couldn't the same effect be achieved after a trial? That is what I
> have the hardest time understanding.
A different effect can be achieved. The offender still gets punished, but
meanwhile they are free to offend again. Unfortunately, the statistics show
that this happens often.
Another effect of the new law is to make people think twice about risking
drinking and driving.
I view a car driven by a drunk as a loaded weapon. I would not want an accused
person to remain in possesion of a gun, and nor do I want a drunk driver to
be able to drink and drive again.
However, using that same analogy, it makes sense that the car should be
impounded until the trial date, as a gun would be. I don't know why the
government doesn't do that instead. Seems to me it would be far more effective
to remove a person's means of transport, and make them pay for the entire
storage cost if they are found guilty at trial. Undoubtedly, the government
viewed license suspension as a cheaper alternative (after all, if an accused
is aquitted, there's no cost to the government for storing the vehicle).
> those ultra-morons who may well drive drunk while awaiting their trail date,
> but these are probably the same idiots that would drive without their
> license anyway.
Probably. And I think people who drive with a suspended license should get
automatic jail time.
--
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being a damned fool."
- Bellamy Brooks
sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> Primarily because to do so ties up a Doctor or a Doctor and a Nurse (Person
> Qualified to take Samples of Blood) for a few hours, and ties up our
> hospital system unnecessarily.
That is convenient, but not a worthy excuse to deny someone the ability to
prove their innocence.
> Calgary hasn't used the Borkenstein Breathalyzer for years; it was quite
> subject to variations in readings from Interferents such as mouthwash; the
> digitized and self- contained BAC Datamaster C screens for interferents and
> can recognize them as such; besides, mouth alcohol (such as mouthwash)
Assuming this new breathalyzer has been scientifically proven successful at
accurate readings, I imagine it is the old Borkenstein Breathalyzer which was
the subject of the case in Ontario. If it was known to be inaccurate, then a
blood test would be the only way to verify blood alcohol content.
> dissipates quite quickly (usually less than 15 minutes) and the investigator
> has to wait at least 20 minutes (it generally takes a lot longer than that)
> between when the Driver is first stopped and performs the first test.
Is this a new proceedure? My friend was pulled over once for a breathalyzer at
a checkstop, and I waited no more than 5 minutes before he returned to the car
and we drove off. This was approximately 5 years ago.
--
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"For four-fifths of our history, our planet was populated by pond scum."
- J.W. Schopf
sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> to quote an intelligent man "That would be better. But, how do we convince
> the taxpayers that more money needs to be spent on ...tecnicians and
> equipment... to do this? Kinda like night court in the US."
Well, in the end, we the taxpayers have the final say. If enough people don't
like what the government has done, they can vote them out next election. In
fact, if enough people petition the government, they can force an election.
I can't recall how many names it takes, but I imagine it's quite alot.
--
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- "Peaceful uses of Nuclear Explosives"
sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> You're welcome. There is no charge to be Tried for Driving Without Due Care
> or Fail to Remain (Hit and Run), unless of course you hire some form of
> Representation, I would imagine. As for having a lawyer present at an ALS
> review, I don't know for sure, but I would suspect that you can.
If an accused is aquitted at the review, is the fee re-imbursed? While I
support the law as I understand it so far, I would definitely be incensed if
for any reason I was mistakenly suspended, had my case reviewed, got my
license re-instated, and still had to pay for someone else's mistake.
--
Scott Barker sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
Linux Consultant http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott
Looking for a husband? Know anyone looking for a husband? Well, I'm looking
for a wife. See http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott/wife.shtml
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"We are just tenants on this world. We have just been given a new lease, and
a warning from the landlord."
- 2010
Sammi
> On Tue, 07 Dec 1999 17:10:40 GMT, The Rooster <mr_ro...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Why couldn't the same effect be achieved after a trial? That is what I
> > have the hardest time understanding.
>
> A different effect can be achieved. The offender still gets punished, but
> meanwhile they are free to offend again. Unfortunately, the statistics show
> that this happens often.
If they are going to offend again, what matter the timing?
sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> If they are going to offend again, what matter the timing?
Only that if they offend again while the license is suspended, the punishment
is more severe.
--
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"I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of
fools. Let's start with typewriters."
- Solomon Short
Sammi
> On Tue, 07 Dec 1999 20:05:58 GMT, Sammi <sa...@SPOMalt2600.com> wrote:
> > If they are going to offend again, what matter the timing?
>
> Only that if they offend again while the license is suspended, the punishment
> is more severe.
Hmm, possibly, though I don't think so.
If I'm up for drunk driving (hypothetical of course) and I'm in court how will
the judge react to learn I've once more been charged while awaiting trial? And
whence time for second appearance comes around, how will the judge react then?
I don't think due process should be removed, I can't see justification, 'tis a
scary thought. It seems quite acceptable for this offense but things do tend to
grow.
P.S.
Finally! Your site link is working ;-)
( I own, and am developing, altlinux.com/org/net)
sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> If I'm up for drunk driving (hypothetical of course) and I'm in court how
> will the judge react to learn I've once more been charged while awaiting
> trial? And whence time for second appearance comes around, how will the
> judge react then?
That would be up to the individual judge, I think. However, being charged with
two counts of the same crime does not necessarily carry the same range of
punishments as being charged with two different crimes. If you've already lost
your license, you will not just have two DUI charges, but also a driving while
suspended charge. This (lawfully) allows the judge to make the punishment more
severe.
> I don't think due process should be removed, I can't see justification, 'tis
> a scary thought. It seems quite acceptable for this offense but things do
> tend to grow.
That's why voting and the courts exist! This law is ok, I think. If I disagree
with another, I may vote for someone else next time, or may try to challenge
the law in court (note that challenging the law is not the same as challenging
an individual charge made against me).
--
Scott Barker sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
Linux Consultant http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott
Looking for a husband? Know anyone looking for a husband? Well, I'm looking
for a wife. See http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott/wife.shtml
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"If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and
the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money it values more, it will
lose that, too."
- W. Somerset Maugham
sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
> You *are* aware that under the new Traffic Safety Act,
> accused drunk drivers STILL get a 21-day temporary
> license, are you not?
Yes, but I believe they are still technically suspended, and they only have
that 21 days to arrange for other transportation.
--
Scott Barker sc...@mostlylinux.ab.ca
Linux Consultant http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott
Looking for a husband? Know anyone looking for a husband? Well, I'm looking
for a wife. See http://www.mostlylinux.ab.ca/scott/wife.shtml
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"Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open."
- Thomas Dewar
gba...@cadvision.com
see an officer defending the use.So if someone fails then could\can they get
blood taken as this would help the court case for both sides?
gba...@cadvision.com
different question for you.How does one thank the police force for doing a
good job? Like getting people to slow down allot of people are finally doing
the speed limit[I am not alone anymore],Some trucks are covering there loads
[but haven't seen if city trucks are yet],So from me thank you for doing a
GOOD JOB THANK YOU very much.One thing I thought of was taking donuts to my
dist office in marbough would that be ok or would they not except them[due
to terrorist people?] any ideas.p.s. I don't have much money so think cheap.