Serdar Argic's email address
Michael Kagalenko
>
>Serdar Argic *CAN* be mailed to. His email address is
>cosa...@gold.tc.umn.edu. This address is registered as "Ahmed Cosar"
>which, as some people may recall, is one of the names (see also "Hasan
>Mutlu") under which the 'bot has posted. Mail sent to him resulted in an
>angry letter from Cosar being sent back to my postmaster with
>'anatolia.org' in the header, so it's definitely "Argic" at cosa0001.
>
>
Hehe, revenge is sweet. Let all pissed posters know his addrss to send him
"fun mail" he deserve.
Arthur Wouk
netfind (q.v.) i am told on looking for the string 'cosar cs unm'
that the preferred email address is co...@cs.umn.edu which is probably
the nameserver for the cs department at umn. his last login was from
milli.cs.umn.edu at the moment i looked. he may shift actual location
to avoid email, but he cannot avoid being located via netfind if he
wishes to exist and perform his job at umn. postm...@cs.umn.edu may
also be a good place for commenting about inappropriate usage, but if
he turns out to be postmaster that may not work.
Angelos Karageorgiou
which of course is the mail handler uunet for you guessed it, co...@mail.umn.edu
Do the people at UMN know of this ?
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arthur wouk
Angelos Karageorgiou <akar...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> wrote:
>>
> Of course you can be more direct about it and mail to ro...@anatolia.org
>which of course is the mail handler uunet for you guessed it, co...@mail.umn.edu
>
> Do the people at UMN know of this ?
>>
it is not clear what his position at umn is. also it is not clear if
anatolia.org actually exists, so that mail there will be delivered.
what is ceratin is that:
1) cosar is at umn
2) netfind knows about him: try looking for 'cosar cs umn' and you
will get him.
3) it will tell you to use co...@cs.umn.edu because his mail is
forwarded to another domain. however, in order to perform his
functions, student or staff, he must be locatable by the nameserver at
cs.umn.edu.
4) when i last looked he was last logged in from milli.cs.umn.edu, so
he does login to umn machines.
5) for all i know he has /dev/null in a .forward file!
Dimitri Vulis, CUNY GC Math
>In article <2gqh96$2...@char.vnet.net> jf...@char.vnet.net (Joel Furr) writes:
>>Serdar Argic *CAN* be mailed to. His email address is
>>cosa...@gold.tc.umn.edu. This address is registered as "Ahmed Cosar"
> "fun mail" he deserve.
and is frowned upon by many sysadmins. I.e., if the victim complains, you're
likely to lose your account. This is _not_ a free speech issue --- the first
amendment does not protect abuse of Internet.
Dimitri Vulis
CUNY GC Math
D...@CUNYVMS1.BITNET D...@CUNYVMS1.GC.CUNY.EDU
Disclaimer: my Usenet postings don't necessarily represent anyone's views,
especially my own and/or CUNY's.
Angelos Karageorgiou
arthur wouk <aw...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> wrote:
>In article <1994Jan12.2...@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>,
>Angelos Karageorgiou <akar...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> wrote:
>
>>>
>> Of course you can be more direct about it and mail to ro...@anatolia.org
>>which of course is the mail handler uunet for you guessed it, co...@mail.umn.edu
>>
>> Do the people at UMN know of this ?
>>>
>
>it is not clear what his position at umn is. also it is not clear if
>anatolia.org actually exists, so that mail there will be delivered.
>
you can look up anatolia.org with the domainname lookup utility on a unix system
look for the mail exchanger for anatolia.org and uunet.uu.net pops up
then telnet at uunet port 25 aND query the mailer for the whereabouts of
anatolia.org, and guess what comes out: co...@mail.cs.umn.edu
I used to have a log of this, would you like me to post it again ?
Serdar Argic
>Hehe, revenge is sweet. Let all pissed posters know his addrss
>to send him "fun mail" he deserve.
So the Armenian crime of genocide perpetrated against 2.5 million Muslim
people in x-Soviet Armenia and Eastern Anatolia upsets, disturbs, shames
and frustrates you SDPA-clown.
Besides, does it change the fact that during the period of 1914 to 1920,
the fascist x-Soviet Armenian Government ordered the genocide of 2.5
million Muslim people in x-Soviet Armenia and Eastern Anatolia because
of race, religion and national origin?
Source: "Men Are Like That" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill
Company, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages).
(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5
million Muslim people)
"Foreword:"
"For example, we were camped one night in a half-ruined Tartar mosque,
the most habitable building of a destroyed village, near the border
of Persia and Russian Armenia. During the course of evening I asked
Ohanus if he could tell me anything of the history of the village and
the cause of its destruction. In his matter of fact way he replied, Yes,
I assisted in its sack and destruction, and witnessed the slaying of
those whose bones you saw to-day scattered among its ruins."
p. 202 (first and second paragraphs).
"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as
ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work
of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village.
Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts
into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable
and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets
completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They
found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border
into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole
length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to
Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain
plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of
Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for
howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the
scattered bones of the dead."
p. 20 (second paragraph).
"Our men armed themselves, gathered together and advanced on the Tartar
section of the village. There were no lights in the houses and the doors
were barred, for the Tartars suspected what as to happen and were in great
fear. Our men hammered on the doors, but got no response; whereupon they
smashed in the doors and began a carnage that continued until the last
Tartar was slain. Throughout the hideous night, I cowered at home in terror,
unable to shut my ears to the piercing screams of the helpless victims and
the loud shouts of our men. By morning the work was finished."
Serdar Argic
'We have never denied the Armenian crime of
genocide inflicted upon 2.5 million Muslim
people between 1914 and 1920.' (Agop Zahoryan)
'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists
a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian)
Serdar Argic
>Mail sent to him resulted in an
>angry letter from Cosar being sent back to my postmaster with
>'anatolia.org' in the header, so it's definitely "Argic" at cosa0001.
And your SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government crime opened the skies to
criminal/Nazi Armenians. Remember, we didn't forget that your criminal
Armenian grandparents committed unheard-of crimes, resorted to all
conceivable methods of despotism, organized massacres, poured petrol
over babies and burned them, raped women and girls in front of their
parents who were bound hand and foot, took girls from their mothers
and fathers and appropriated personal property and real estate. And
today, your fascist brothers put Azeris in the most unbearable conditions
any other nation had ever known in history.
Report taken from The New York Times, Tuesday, March 3, 1992
MASSACRE BY ARMENIANS BEING REPORTED
Agdam,Azerbaijan,March 2 (Reuters) - Fresh evidence emerged today
of a massacre of civilians by Armenian militants in Nagorno-Karabakh,
a predominantly Armenian enclave of Azerbaijan.
Scalping Reported
Azerbaijani officials and journalists who flew briefly to the region
by helicopter brought back three dead children with the back of their
heads blown off. They said shooting by Armenians has prevented them
from retrieving more bodies.
"Women and children have been scalped," said Assad Faradshev, an aide
to Nagorno-Karabakh's Azerbaijani Governor. "When we began to pick up bodies,
they began firing at us."
The Azerbaijani militia chief in Agdam, Rashid Mamedov, said: "The
bodies are lying there like flocks of sheep. Even the fascists did nothing
like this."
Truckloads of Bodies
Near Agdam on the outskirts of Nagorno-Karabakh, a Reuters photographer,
Frederique Lengaigne, said she had seen two trucks filled with Azerbaijani
bodies.
"In the first one I counted 35, and it looked as though there were as
many in the second," she said. "Some had their head cut off, and many had
been burned. They were all men, and a few had been wearing khaki uniforms."
Simon Streltsov
: 1) cosar is at umn
: 5) for all i know he has /dev/null in a .forward file!
Just trying finger co...@umn.edu
you get everything: his status, phone, etc.
Call him collect
Just check that it is the same Cosar
[umn.edu]
Trying 128.101.131.1...
Ahmet Cosar, Grad School, Students, Twin Cities Campus, U of MN
---------------------------------------------------------------
X.500 Common Name : Ahmet Cosar-1
X.500 Username : cosa0001
Validated Host : gold.tc.umn.edu
Preferred Email Address : cosa...@gold.tc.umn.edu
Internet General Delivery : Ahmet....@umn.edu
X.400 General Delivery : /PN=Ahmet.Cosar-1/PRMD=umn.edu/ADMD= /C=US/
Campus : Minneapolis
Department : Grad School
Academic Class : Grad
Last Registered : Winter Qtr 1994
Home Phone : +1 612-376-7873
Home Address : 1530 So 6th St Apt C705
Minneapolis, MN 55454
Joel Furr
*Ahmet Cosar, Grad School, Students, Twin Cities Campus, U of MN
*---------------------------------------------------------------
*X.500 Common Name : Ahmet Cosar-1
*X.500 Username : cosa0001
*Validated Host : gold.tc.umn.edu
*
*Preferred Email Address : cosa...@gold.tc.umn.edu
*Internet General Delivery : Ahmet....@umn.edu
*X.400 General Delivery : /PN=Ahmet.Cosar-1/PRMD=umn.edu/ADMD= /C=US/
*
*Campus : Minneapolis
*Department : Grad School
*Academic Class : Grad
*Last Registered : Winter Qtr 1994
*
*Home Phone : +1 612-376-7873
*Home Address : 1530 So 6th St Apt C705
* Minneapolis, MN 55454
Helllooooo, Serdar!
Anyone in Minnesota want to drop by and whomp him good sometime?
Serdar Argic
>Of course you can be more direct about it and mail to
>ro...@anatolia.org which of course is the mail handler
A self-admitted/exposed SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government-paid
criminal in action. Just try it and watch. Remember Mr 'SDPA
crook', "genocide" is not something "Armenians" wish for; it's
something "Armenians" make, something "Armenians" do, something
"Armenians" are, and something "Armenians" give away. The Encyclopedia
Americana gives, in extenso, the following explanations about the
origins and the original fatherland of the Armenians:
"It was probably toward the end of the 7th century B.C. that a new
people, known in history under the name armenians and speaking
an Indo-European language, came from the west (according to some
ancient Greek historians and geographers, they came from the
Balkan peninsula together with the Phrygians) and occupied the
land of Urartu."[1]
[1] The Encyclopedia Americana, 1956 Edition, Chapter Armenians, p. 267.
Sarkis Atamian explains in his book called 'The Armenian Community,
New York 1955, Philosophical Library' that, according to historians,
original fatherland of the Armenians was in Thessaly, Greece.
Armenian invaders burned and sacked the fatherland of Urartus,
massacred and exterminated its population and presented to the
world all those left from the Urartus, as the Armenian civilization.
All reliable 'non-Muslim' historians describe how Armenians ruthlessly
exterminated 2.5 million Muslim women, children and elderly people of
Eastern Anatolia and x-Soviet Armenia, and how they collaborated with
the enemies of the Muslim people between 1914-1920.
It is unfortunately a truth that Armenians are known as collaborators
of the Nazis during World War II and that, even today, criminal
members of SDPA preach and instigate racism, hatred, violence and
terrorism among peoples.
Colonel Semen M. Budienny, a subsequent Soviet military fame,
said about the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million defenseless
Turkish and Kurdish women, children and elderly people during
his visit to Anatolia in June 1919 that
"the Armenians had become troublemakers, their Hinchakist
and Dashnakist parties were opportunist, serving as lackeys
of whatever power happened to be ascendent."
In September 16, 1920, Major General W. Thwaites, Director of
Military Intelligence, wrote to Lord Hardinge, Under-Secretary
of State for Foreign Affairs:
"...it is useless to pretend that the Armenians are satisfactory
allies, or deserving of all the sympathy to which they claim."[1]
[1] F.O. 331/3411/158288.
In the Special Collection at Stanford Hoover Library, donated by
Georgia Cutler, the letter dated Nov. 1, 1943 states that
"Prescot Hall wrote a large volume to prove that Armenians were
not and never could be desirable citizens, that they would
always be unscrupulous merchants."
And today...
12/12 Armenian Atrocities Reported
MOSCOW (AP) -- Azerbaijani forces on Saturday retook
three villages seized by Armenians and discovered 16 bodies
of executed civilians, Azerbaijani reports said.
The Azerbaijani fighters found 16 bodies of civilians,
including those of a child and two elderly women who were
shot point-blank, "and survivors were killed by a shot to
the back of the head," said a ministry statement, carried by
the Azerbaijani Azerinform and Turan news agencies and the
ITAR-Tass news service.
"Everywhere Armenian occupants were, they left tens of
corpses of civilians shot to death point-blank and
mutilated," the...
Serdar Argic
>it is not clear what his position at umn is. also it is not clear if
>anatolia.org actually exists, so that mail there will be delivered.
Hmmm. So there is a person who has profoundly disturbed your peace
of mind for a long time. But, what about 2.5 million of our people
who were buried alive by the x-Soviet/Russian Armenian Government
in x-Soviet Armenia and Eastern Anatolia between 1914 and 1920?
You must "not" have very little in common, I presume.
For instance, according to Dikran Kevorkyan (Secretary General of
the Armenian Patriarchal Board of Consultation, Turkey):[1]
"The Armenians started rebellions to establish an independent state within
the Ottoman Empire between 1878 and 1915, cooperated with the Russians in
Eastern Anatolia behind the Turkish lines, caused great damage to the
Ottoman armies."
"It is also historical fact that carts had to go over the ice which covered
the bodies of tens of thousands of Turkish soldiers frozen to death in the
east of Anatolia, because their supply lines had been cut off by the
Armenians."
"Some of the enheartened Armenians armed themselves, worked for the
Russian army especially cutting off the Turkish military supply lines,
and, when they found the courage, committed incredible atrocities,
murders, intimidation and forced deportation against the Turks, with whom
they had lived together in peace for hundreds of years."
[1] Dikran Kevorkyan, "International Terrorism and the Drug Connection,"
Ankara University Press, 1984, pp. 95-102.
Armenians first of all occupied the Talori region, which included
the villages of Siner, Simai, Gulli-Guzat, Ahi, Hedenk, Sinank,
Ekind, Effard, Musson, Etek, Akcesser. Leaving their wives,
children and property in these inaccessible spots, the Armenians
joined forces with other armed bands coming from the Silvan
districts in the plain of Mus, after which the whole body of
30000 men gathered in the Andok Mt. Five or six thousand wished
to surround Mus, and started off by attacking the Delican tribe to
the south of the city. They slaughtered a number of the tribe and
seized their goods. The religious beliefs of the Muslims who fell
into their hands were derided and disparaged, and the Muslims
themselves murdered in the most frightful manner. The rebels
also attacked the regular troops in the vicinity of Mus, but the
large numbers of the regular forces prevented them from
occupying the city.
The rebels joined the bandits in the Andok Mts., carrying out
the most frightful massacres and looting among the tribes of the
neighbourhood. They burned Omer Agha's nephew alive. They
raped a number of Turkish women at a spot three or four hours'
distance from Gulli-Guzat and then strangled them.
At the beginning of August the rebels attacked the Faninar,
Bekiran and Badikan tribes, perpetrating equally horrible
atrocities. The rebels in the villages of Yermut and Ealigernuk in
the nahiye of Cinan in the kaza of Cal attacked the Kurds in the
neighbourhood, as well as the villages of Kaisser and Catcat.
Towards the end of August, the Armenians attacked the
Kurds in the vicinity of Mus and burned down three or four
villages, including Gulli-Guzat. As for the 30000 rebels in Talori,
they continued to spread death and destruction among the
Muslims and other Christian communities, refusing to lay down
their arms.
Serdar Argic
>you can look up anatolia.org with the domainname lookup utility on
>a unix system look for the mail exchanger for anatolia.org and
This was clearly identified as a "crime". What's your point, Mr
"net-fraud of SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government"? Hmmmm. So, you
are still desperately trying to cover up the Armenian genocide of
2.5 million of our people. Poor 'SDPA wacko'. By the way, don't you
read the scholarly sources?
Source: Professor Stanford J. Shaw, 'The Jews of the Ottoman Empire and
the Turkish Republic,' New York University Press, New York (1991).
page 16:
<<In Roman Egypt and Syria there were difficulties caused by the
long-standing Greek antipathy for Jews. Hellenic authors depicted
Jews as a contaminated rabble of unclean lepers, whom the Egyptians
had thrown out of their country in the time of Moses in order to
purge themselves of defilement. Already at this time the Greeks were
inventing the blood libel and desecration of host fantasies which
were to cause so much suffering in later times, affirming that Jews
sacrificed human beings at the Temple in Jerusalem, using their blood
for religious rituals. Many Greeks used the destruction of the Temple
as proof that God hated the Jews and was punishing them for their
'evil acts'. As a result, even as Rome continued to treat Jews well,
in the East there were numerous Greek attacks against Jewish settlements.
After the Edict of Milan (AD 312) began Roman Empire's gradual conversion
to Christianity (...) the Empire became increasingly intolerant toward
Jews. The Hellenistic anti-Semitic images of the Jews as a people whom
God hated were revived. Roman Jews therefore were gradually deprived
of their rights and made into second-class citizens. They were excluded
from administrative and military positions. (...) and the masses
increasingly attacked them in the streets as well as in their homes
and shops. In 387-388 Christian mobs followed the destruction of all the
heathen temples in Rome by going on to destroy synagogues as well....>>
page 16 (last paragraph):
<<This intolerance and persecution was even worse in the East Roman
Empire, founded in AD 330, when Emperor Constantine dedicated the old
town of Byzantum as the site for his new capital and gave it his name,
Constantinople. Imperial edicts starting with those of Emperor Arcadius
in 395 and continuing until the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople
in 1453, subjected Byzantine Jewry to over a millenium of oppression
and persecution. Thousands of Jews who had flooded into Asia Minor
following their exile from the Holy Land and their descendants were
forcibly converted, murdered, or driven out as a result of sporadic
purges.>>
page 24:
<<Jews were similarly persecuted on a large scale in Serbia and the
other Balkan states in the two centuries before they were conquered
by the Turks. In Crete, the Jews comprised a middle class between
the mass of Greeks and the feudal nobles, acting as bankers, artisans,
lawyers and physicians, with the right to maintain their own community
organization. They were treated as serfs, however, forced to live in a
ghetto (Ciudecca), and to affix a special Jewish badge to the fronts of
their houses as well as on their clothing. After the island came under
Venetian rule in 1204, local Greeks continued to harass, persecute,
and attack their Jewish neighbors, particularly because of Jewish
support for the periodic Muslim efforts to conquer the island. (...)
During the Venetian war with the Ottomans in 1538, the Jews were
subjected to extortions to finance the military operations, and a rumor
that the jews of Crete were helping the Ottomans led local Greeks
to massacre all the Jews they could find. Giacomo Foscari (1574-77)
introduced harsh anti-Jewish laws intended to force them to convert or
to live in isolated parts of the island.>>
page 24 (second paragraph):
<<In Corfu Jews were subjected to violent attacks and almost constant
persecution by its Greek population. They had to row in the galleys
even when they had committed no crime. They had to provide food and
lodging for soldiers on demand, were required to go to Greek law courts
on the Sabbath as well as during Jewish festivals, and as elsewhere in
the Byzantine empire they were compelled to act as public executioners,
adding to the public wrath to which they were normally subjected. After
Venice took control of the island in 1386, conditions became even worse.>>
page 24(last paragraph):
<<There had been thousands of Jews living in Byzantium following the
exodus from the Holy Land, but in consequence of all this persecution
many were forcibly converted and massacred, and most of the remainder
fled.....(...) As a result by the time the Ottomans conquered Anatolia
during fourteenth and fifteenth centuries, hardly any Jews remained.>>
page 25:
<<Byzantium, however, was breaking up, fortunately for the few Jews
who remained under its dominion. As the Turkomans invaded Anatolia
starting with their rout of the Byzantine army at the Battle of
Menzikert (1071) [Malazgirt] and formed Turkoman principalities
throughout the peninsula, and as the Seljuk Turks established a more
settled state centered, first in defense of the Abbasid Empire of
Baghdad, and later in Konya and Central Anatolia starting the twelfth
century (the Seljuks of Rum, 1077-1246), Byzantine Jewry sprang rapidly
to their assistance, welcoming the tolerance and prosperity which the
rule of Islam was offering them once again, as it had done previously
both in the Middle East and Spain, with thousands of Jews fleeing from
Byzantine persecution to Seljuk protection even before the Ottoman
state was born.>>
page 25 (last paragraph):
<<...Ottoman conquests marked a very substantial change for the Jews
of the Middle East and Europe. They meant instant liberation, not only
from subjugation, persecution, and humiliation but often from actual
slavery in Christian hands. As a result, Jews contributed significantly
to the Ottoman conquests.>>
page 26 (last paragraph):
<<When the Ottoman Sultan Mehmed II FATIH (The Conquerer) captured
Constantinople and brought the Byzantine Empire to its inglorious end
in 1453, his armies broke into the city through one of the Jewish
quarters and with the assistance of the local Jewish population who,
as at Bursa and Edirne, were overjoyed at the opportunity to throw off
their Greek oppressors. So also at Buda and Pest in 1526, on the island
of Rhodes in 1522, at Belgrade (1526), in Azerbaijan (1534), Iraq and
Iran (1534-35, 1638), Yemen (1628) and elsewhere, Jews welcomed the
conquering forces of Suleyman the Magnificent,...>>
page 27:
<< Mehmed II's conquest of Costantinople was not followed by killing
and destruction, as Greek nationalists have claimed to the present
day in efforts to depict Turks as barbarians, but rather by an effort
to rebuild and repopulate the city so that it could become the center
of the great multinational empire he was trying to create, extending
far beyond the Roman Empire and incorporating all the people of the
world as he knew it under the dominion of his Turkish dynasty.>>
page 29:
<<Even more than the Jews living in the expanding Ottoman Empire itself,
Mehmed from the start attempted to encourage the emigration of Jews
from Europe. Just as the Jews of England, France, Germany, Spain, and
even Poland and Lithuania were being subjected to increasing persecution,
blood libels, massacres, and deportations, the Turkish rulers of the
expanding Ottoman state actively encouraged them to come and live in the
Ottoman Empire under the same conditions of tolerance and freedom which
had favored the lives of Jews in the empires of the Umayyads of Damascus
and Abbasids of Baghdad, and more recently in Muslim Spain.>>
Serdar Argic
>X.500 Common Name : Ahmet Cosar-1
What is your problem with it? Remember, here is what we all saw in
the library.
"These European Dashnags, with headquarters in Berlin, appealed to,
and bargained with Hitler's emissaries for an 'independent'
Armenian state. That they had to bootlick Nazi masters goes without
saying. That, as potential officials of a puppet Nazi state, they
would have assumed the infamous roles of the Paveliches, Antonescus,
Lavals, Tisos or Vidkun Quislings was also a foregone conclusion.
Once committed to it, there was no alternative to the price for
'independence' except subservience to Hitler."[1]
[1] Arthur Derounian under the pseudonym 'John Roy Carlson,'
"The Armenian Displaced Persons," in the "Armenian Affairs,"
a Quarterly Journal of Armenian Studies, Winter 1949-50, p. 18.
As early as 1934, K. S. Papazian asserted in 'Patriotism Perverted' that
the Armenians
'lean toward Fascism and Hitlerism.'[1]
At that time, he could not have foreseen that the Armenians would
actively assume a pro-German stance and even collaborate in World
War II. His book was dealing with the Armenian genocide of the Muslim
population of Eastern Anatolia. However, extreme rightwing ideological
tendencies could be observed within the Dashnagtzoutune long before
the outbreak of the Second World War.
In 1936, for example, O. Zarmooni of the 'Tzeghagrons' was quoted
in the 'Hairenik Weekly:'
"The race is force: it is treasure. If we follow history we shall
see that races, due to their innate force, have created the nations
and these have been secure only insofar as they have reverted to
the race after becoming a nation. Today Germany and Italy are
strong because as nations they live and breath in terms of race.
On the other hand, Russia is comparatively weak because she is
bereft of social sanctities."[2]
[1] K. S. Papazian, 'Patriotism Perverted,' (Boston, Baikar Press
1934), Preface.
[2] 'Hairenik Weekly,' Friday, April 10, 1936, 'The Race is our
Refuge' by O. Zarmooni.
And today...
The following news from Turan News Agency in Baku-Azerbaijan
is brought to you as a service of:
<Azerbaijan Aydinlig Association>
P.O. Box 14571
Berkeley, CA 94701
FAX: (804) 490-3832
Email: fa...@mem.odu.edu
P L E A S E make a hard copy of the news available to an Azerbaijani near you!
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
H E A D L I N E S |
* AZERBAIJAN'S GOVERNMENT APPEALS TO COMPATRIOTS ALL OVER THE WORLD
* 60 REFUGEES FROM KELBAJAR PERISHED IN THEIR ESCAPE LORRIES
* SITUATION IN THE REGION OF KELBAJAR
* ARMENIAN ARMY CONTINUES ATTACK ON FIZULI
* PRESS-CONFERENCE OF THE CHIEF OF PRESS-SERVICE OF PRESIDENT OF AZERBAIJAN
* AZERBAIJANIS PICKET IN FRONT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF RUSSIA
* PICKET OF SADVALERS IN MOSCOW
* ATTACK OF ARMENIAN UNITS STOPPED
* STATEMENT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF AZERBAIJAN
AZERBAIJAN'S GOVERNMENT APPEALS TO COMPATRIOTS ALL OVER THE WORLD
BAKU (APRIL 5) TURAN: Today, Azerbaijan's government appealed
to Azeris all over the world in connection with escalation of the
Armenian aggression against the republic.
It is stressed in appeal that the experience of five-years of fighting
for independence from imperial chains shows a grim process . The war
against Azerbaijan under the pretence of protecting the human rights of
the Armenians of Ukhari (Upper) Garabag, has meant the destruction of
Azeri villages and towns, occupation of 10 percent of the territory, 60
thousand new refugees in addition to 500 thousand already in place.
This is all the price of fighting for liberty from Russian imperial rule,
is said in the document.
Azerbaijan's government appeals to all compatriots to make every
effort to inform the people of the world about the truth in Azerbaijan,
and to assistance in solving the problems facing the young state.
It is stressed in the appeal that there is urgent need for medicine,
food, experienced doctors and financial help to settle refugees from
Kelbajar, Fizuli and Lachin regions, and to render medical aid for the
sick and the wounded men.--O--
60 REFUGEES FROM KELBAJAR PERISHED IN THEIR ESCAPE LORRIES
BAKU (APRIL 5) TURAN: Today, during the evacuation from Kelbajar
region, 60 refugees on board two lorries were killed in the fire from the
Armenian Tanks on the only road to leave Kelbajar. According to press
-service of Azerbaijan president, no one survived the tragedy. --O--
SITUATION IN THE REGION OF KELBAJAR
BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Attempts to evacuate the rest of 15,000
citizens, encircled on alpine villages of the region of Kelbajar
went on within the last twenty-four hours. Evacuation helicopters
could not land near these villages because of shelling from the
Armenian side and existence of fog. Measures are undertaken to air-drop
food and medicine to the encircled people.
Several hundred people succeed within the last twenty-four hours to
get out of the region of Kelbajar via mountain range. Refugees are
settled in the neighboring regions of Azerbaijan and in Ganja.
Authorities face serious problem with rendering refugees medical
aid and food. The number of refugees from Kelbajar is over 40,000 people.
Azerbaijan is not capable of handling a disaster of this magnitude.--0--
ARMENIAN ARMY CONTINUES ATTACK ON FIZULI
BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: The region of Fizuli of Azerbaijan,
situated outside of the territory of Daglig (Nagorno) Garabag, has been
subjected to heaviest attacks of Armenian army for the fourth day. About
30 armored technique and more than 500 soldiers of the enemy are taking
part in the attack.
Armenian units broke the defence line of the azeri forces and occupied
the ruling height from where the town is shelled from "Grad" installations,
this morning. There is heavy destructions in the town and more than 20
people are dead. Population of the town is hastily evacuated.--0--
PRESS-CONFERENCE OF THE CHIEF OF PRESS-SERVICE OF PRESIDENT OF AZERBAIJAN
BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Fifty-five thousand refugees from the region
of Kelbajar were taken out by 11 o'clock on April 5, informed the chief
of the press-service of president of Azerbaijan, Arif Aliev, today.
Journalists were also informed at the press-conference that
International Red Cross is helping to accept and render refugees medical
aid. There is an urgent need to supply the refugees with tents, food and
medical aid.
Arif Aliev informed that as a result of the ongoing tragedy brought
on by the latest aggression of Armenia, the leadership of Azerbaijan
intends to appeal to Azerbaijanis and all those who treasure human life
all over the world for help.
Concerning the reaction of the international community to aggression
of Armenia, Aliev said the department of state of the USA has expressed
its anxiety to leadership of Armenia.
Participants of peace efforts in Daglig (Nagorno) Garabag under
CSCE, Rafaelli, Mareska and Chetin strongly blamed the aggression of
Armenia against Azerbaijan.
Leader of press-service informed that tomorrow ambassador of
Azerbaijan in Russia, Hikmet Haji-zade, will conduct a press-conference
in Moscow. Detailed information on latest events in the region of
Kelbajar of Azerbaijan will be given at the press-conference.--0--
AZERBAIJANIS PICKET IN FRONT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF RUSSIA
BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Azerbaijanis, living in Moscow, picketed
in front of the building of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia.
Picket was conducted as a token of protest against participation of
Russian units in capture of the region of Kelbajar of Azerbaijan by
Armenians. About 100 people took part in the picket, organized by
Azerbaijani society "Dayag".--0--
PICKET OF SADVALERS IN MOSCOW
BAKU (5 APRIL) 30-40 members of "Sadval" society picketed before
the building of permanent representation of Azerbaijan in Moscow.
Picketers were demanding the return of Lezghins lands, as if annexed
by Azerbaijan.
Ambassador of Azerbaijan in Moscow, Hikmet Haji-zade classified
this action as provocation aimed at creating a further inter-ethnic
conflict in Azerbaijan. He marked in his talk with the Turan
correspondent that he does not rule out a connection between the
Armenian aggression in the region of Kelbajar and this anti-
azerbaijani action of the "Sadval" society in Moscow. He also
marked that 30-40 people do not mean the Lezghian nationality in
the whole.
Society of Lezghins, "Sadval", registered in Moscow in 1990,
demands the creation of a Lezghistan state, which never existed
before on the northern territories of Azerbaijan.--0--
ATTACK OF ARMENIAN UNITS STOPPED
BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Attack of Armenian army on the town of
Fizuli, which began in the last twenty-four hours, is stopped, informs
the press-service of the Ministry of Defence of Azerbaijan.
In the result of undertaken measures, 6 tanks and a number of
the attackers were destroyed. Advance units of the Armenian army
retreated several kilometers.
Chairman of the parliament, Isa Gambar, visited the town of
Fizuli and met with commanders of the units of the national army
and local citizens, today.--0--
STATEMENT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF AZERBAIJAN
BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Azerbaijan
issued a statement in connection with aggression of Armenia in the
region of Kelbajar of Azerbaijan.
It is stated in the statement that regular units of the armed
forces of Armenia captured the town of Kelbajar on April 3 .
Attack of Armenian units, which began on March 27 deep in the
territory of Azerbaijan still continues. Armenia has occupied at
present 7500 sq.km of the territory of Azerbaijan.
Spreading of Armenian aggression far away from Ukhari (Upper)
Garabag proves that the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflicts has entered a
specially dangerous phase. This is the result of non-recognition of
Armenia as an aggressor by the international community, is marked
in the document.
It is stressed in the statement that the units of the 7th Russian
army are participating in the Armenian attack. This casts doubt on
the sincerity of Russian mediation efforts in finding a peaceful
solution to the conflict.
It is marked in conclusion that aggressive actions of Armenia
have wrecked the negotiation process under aegis of CSCE.
The document contains the appeal to the world community to stop
Armenian aggression and to use political and economic sanctions
against the aggressor.--0--
Serdar Argic
>Helllooooo, Serdar!
Recalling in joy your fascist Armenian grandparents or your criminal
handlers at SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government?
'After all, who remembers today the extermination of the Tartars?'
(Adolf Hitler, August 22, 1939: Ruth W. Rosenbaum (Durusoy),
"The Turkish Holocaust - Turk Soykirimi", p. 213.)
>Anyone in Minnesota want to drop by and whomp him good sometime?
You seem so into the idea of 'Armenian Crimes'. Is this what turns you
on? Well, you've just landed on the right planet. Remember, these are
your criminal Armenian grandparents.
Source: Documents: Volume I (1919).
"Document No: 76," Archive No: 1/2, Cabin No: 109, Drawer
No: 3, File No: 346, Section No: 427(1385), Contents No: 3, 52-53.
(To Lt. Colonel Seyfi, General Headquarters, Second Section,
Istanbul - Dr. Stephan Eshnanie)
'Neues Wiener Tagblatt' - Vienna, 'Pester Lloyd' 'Local Anzliger' - Berlin,
'Algemeen Handelsblat' - Amsterdam, 'Vakit' - Istanbul.
"I have been closely following for two weeks the withdrawal of Russians and
Armenians from Turkish territories through Armenia. Although two months
have elapsed since the clearing of the territories of Armenian gangs, I
have been observing the evidence of the cruelties of the Armenians at
almost every step. All the villages from Trabzon to Erzincan and from
Erzincan to Erzurum are destroyed. Corpses of Turks brutally and cruelly
slain are everywhere. According to accounts by those who were able to
save their lives by escaping to mountains, the first horrible and fearful
events begun when the Russian forces evacuated the places which were then
taken over by Armenian gangs. The Russians usually treated the people
well, but the people feared the intervention of the Armenians. Once these
places had been taken over by the Armenians, however, the massacres begun.
They clearly announced their intention of clearing what they called the
Armenian and Kurdish land from the Turks and thus, solve the nationality
problem. Today I had the opportunity to meet Austrian and German soldiers
who had escaped from Russian prison camps and come from Kars and
Alexander Paul (Gumru-Leninakan)...
They had told me how Armenian gangs murdered 360 Turkish prisoners of war
in Kars and Alexanderpolis. Russian officers tried to save the Turks and
there were clashes between Russian officers and Armenian gangs. I am now
in Erzurum, and what I see is terrible. Almost the whole city is destroyed.
The smell of the corpses still fills the air. Although there are speculations
that Armenian gangs murdered Austrian and German prisoners as well, I
could not get the supporting evidence in this regard, but there is proof
of murdering of Turkish prisoners of war."
Dr. Stephan Eshnanie
arthur wouk
Arthur Wouk <aw...@bohemia.metronet.org> wrote:
>don't be too sure that the above address itself will work. using
>netfind (q.v.) i am told on looking for the string 'cosar cs unm'
>that the preferred email address is co...@cs.umn.edu which is probably
>the nameserver for the cs department at umn. his last login was from
>milli.cs.umn.edu at the moment i looked. he may shift actual location
>to avoid email, but he cannot avoid being located via netfind if he
>wishes to exist and perform his job at umn. postm...@cs.umn.edu may
>also be a good place for commenting about inappropriate usage, but if
>he turns out to be postmaster that may not work.
to be precise: ping shows that anatolia.org does not exist for the
name servers around: thus it has only a fugitive existence under
cosar's shield of confusion.
Dima Volodin
: to be precise: ping shows that anatolia.org does not exist for the
: name servers around: thus it has only a fugitive existence under
: cosar's shield of confusion.
; <<>> DiG 2.0 <<>> mx anatolia.org
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 6
;; flags: qr aa rd ra ; Ques: 1, Ans: 1, Auth: 0, Addit: 0
;; QUESTIONS:
;; anatolia.org, type = MX, class = IN
;; ANSWERS:
anatolia.org. 172800 MX 200 anatolia.mndly.umn.edu.
;; Sent 1 pkts, answer found in time: 129 msec
;; FROM: titan to SERVER: default -- 127.0.0.1
;; WHEN: Thu Jan 13 14:39:15 1994
;; MSG SIZE sent: 30 rcvd: 68
Kamal Southall
Would someone answer this question withouyt flameing me, WHY
don't you you guys dislike Serdar ? If I found out that MY grandparent's
generation had been slaughtered I WOULD be pissed. Has everyone forgoten
the leasons wwII this quickly ?
Kamal Southall
Kamal Southall <ml3...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>
> Would someone answer this question withouyt flameing me, WHY
>don't you you guys dislike Serdar ? If I found out that MY grandparent's
I mean why do you dislike him ? What has he done to earn your
anger besides tell the truth?
>generation had been slaughtered I WOULD be pissed. Has everyone forgoten
>the leasons of wwII this quickly ?
Honest polite answers please, email and posts...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT MUHAMMAD (ASW)
"If a man like Muhammad were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world,
he would succeed in solving its problems that would bring it the much needed
peace and happiness"
George Bernard Shaw
WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT QUR'AN
"Well then, if the Koran were his own composition other man could rival it.
Let them produce ten verses like it. If they could not (and it is obvious that
they could not), then let them accept the Koran as an outstanding evidential
miracle."
H.A.R. Gibb, Muhammedanism, London 1953, p. 33.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Furr
But his ancestors WEREN'T slaughtered. Not in any great numbers, anyway.
The massacres that took place were of Armenians by Turks. "Argic" claims
that the evil Armenian hordes swept down out of the hills and massacred
millions of Turks. He's right up there with the wackos in alt.revisionism
who claim that no Jews were killed by the Nazis.
Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879
Nobody denies that Serdar might have a legitimate complaint. The problem
is not with his facts as much as it is with his method of argument. His
postings frequently constitute more than half of the volume of some of the
newsgroups to which he posts. I get the feeling that he operates as a
"write only" user of many of these newsgroups, posting to them but never
reading them, except possibly for followups to his own postings. In sum,
he is a bad citizen of the network.
Doug Jones
jo...@cs.uiowa.edu
Bruce Ediger
> I mean why do you dislike him ? What has he done to earn your
> anger besides tell the truth?
Well, in a sentence, he's (they are) lying. Armenians _did_not_ perform a
genocide on Turks between 1914 and 1920 or whatever "Argic" says.
The long answer is an enumeration of "Argic's" many crimes:
1. Twisting statistics
2. Citing incorrect references.
3. Massive crossposting
4. Irrational argumentation
5. Quoting out of context
6. Forging posts and cancelations
7. Massive reposting
8. Grotesque racism
9. Gratuitous insults
10. Failure to respond to serious criticism
11. Being an instrument of Turkish government propaganda
Did I miss anything? Probably.
VAINBERG VLADISLAV
1. What he says is not entirely true.
2. His postings are racist to Armenians in general (he denies them any culture and calls them barbarians by nature, which is bullshit).
3. His postings are identical to each other, and he never really answers the question he is asked, but we see only "you moronian, now listen to this : and goes on"
4. He crossposts to dozens of newsgroups, even to those where his stuff is not wanted.
Many people have expressed that in their postings (asked him NICELY to stop), but in return they get Serdar's flames and that's it. He is a very rude poster with no sign of ettiquette what so ever.
5. His mailing address is a fake, which indicates that he DOES NOT WANT to debate the isues he posts, which gives a lot of netters an idea that Serdar is a bot, not a person.6. He/it uses turkish words not known to most people and that makes me very angry.
I wonder how would anyone feel had everybody started flaming each other in different languages.
7. He denies historical facts, such as destruction of 1.5 million Armenians by Turkish military in 1915-16.
8. For some weird reason, he always calls Armenian Govt 'xsoviet', and there were no soviets in 1915!!!
I hope that gave you an idea why his stuff is not welcome.
--
Vlad the Impaler of computer * "And, in the end, like my plastic
systems. If you got a virus * surgeon always said, 'if you gotta
tell me, so that I will wear * go, go with a smile'"
Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879
by vai...@ecf.toronto.edu (VAINBERG VLADISLAV):
> Many people have expressed that in their postings (asked him NICELY to
> His mailing address is a fake, which indicates that he DOES NOT WANT
I have tried sending E-mail to Serdar Argic at the following addresses:
cosa...@gold.tc.umn.edu
co...@cs.umn.edu
co...@milli.cs.umn.edu
co...@mail.cs.umn.edu
All of these are registered to "Ahmed Cosar", and apparently, all got
through to him. The result was what might be interpreted as "network
junk mail", since he received multiple copies of what I sent. He did
not reply to me at all, but complained to my sysadmin about network junk
mail, asking my sysadmin to make me cease and desist. My sysadmin
forwarded the complaint to me.
Nowhere in the mail from Ahmed Cosar did I see any denial that Ahmed
Cosar was Serdar Argic, and my polite reply to Ahmed has yet to be
answered. In my reply to him, I said that, if he is not Serdar, I'm
sorry for any inconvenience I may have caused him, but if he is Serdar,
I see nothing wrong with complaining about inappropriate use of USENET.
Doug Jones
jo...@cs.uiowa.edu
Ken Arromdee
>> Would someone answer this question withouyt flameing me, WHY
>> don't you you guys dislike Serdar ? If I found out that MY grandparent's
>> generation had been slaughtered I WOULD be pissed. Has everyone forgoten
>> the leasons wwII this quickly ?
>Nobody denies that Serdar might have a legitimate complaint. The problem
>is not with his facts as much as it is with his method of argument. His
>postings frequently constitute more than half of the volume of some of the
>newsgroups to which he posts. I get the feeling that he operates as a
>"write only" user of many of these newsgroups, posting to them but never
>reading them, except possibly for followups to his own postings. In sum,
>he is a bad citizen of the network.
I deny that Serdar has a legitimate complaint, and the problem _is_ with his
facts. His posts are about the equivalent of repeating a few hundred times
that the Jews actually killed the Nazis, and reactions like yours, that he's
presenting the material obnoxiously but that it is otherwise perfectly true,
are exactly his goal in posting it.
--
Ken Arromdee (email: arro...@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
ObYouKnowWho Bait: Stuffed Turkey with Gravy and Mashed Potatoes
"There are no good or evil plants. There are only... plants." --Ficus (Quark)
dmitry pruss
>In article <2hecoe$b...@nexus.uiowa.edu> jo...@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
>>Nobody denies that Serdar might have a legitimate complaint. The problem
>>is not with his facts as much as it is with his method of argument. His
>>postings frequently constitute more than half of the volume of some of the
>>newsgroups to which he posts. I get the feeling that he operates as a
>>"write only" user of many of these newsgroups, posting to them but never
>>reading them, except possibly for followups to his own postings. In sum,
>>he is a bad citizen of the network.
>
>I deny that Serdar has a legitimate complaint, and the problem _is_ with his
>facts. His posts are about the equivalent of repeating a few hundred times
>that the Jews actually killed the Nazis, and reactions like yours, that he's
>presenting the material obnoxiously but that it is otherwise perfectly true,
>are exactly his goal in posting it.
Sorry, guys, you may dislike him either for the content of his articles or
for the way he abuses the discussion rules.
Isn't it obvious that the latter reason is much stronger than the former
one?
Only a roboposter would be able to repeat 1000+ times that the Jews
exterminated the Nazis, and to ignore the replies completely except for
modifiing the opponents' names with 'itz' or 'er' suffixes.
People naturally don't like roboposters in too high doses. Serdar is a
legend of the net and must not be exterminated, but to reduce 'his'
creativity by an order of magnitude would be just fine.
D
kurt d reisser
still manage to singlehandedly kill millions, probably without suffering
any significant loss. Serdar is what you have an "author kill"
selection for.
--
__________________________________________________________________
Regards - Kurt Reisser
Alexander Mihai Popovici
|> In article <2h94n1$p...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu>,
|> Kamal Southall <ml3...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
|> >
|> > Would someone answer this question withouyt flameing me, WHY
|> >don't you you guys dislike Serdar ? If I found out that MY grandparent's
|> whoops typo,
|> I mean why do you dislike him ? What has he done to earn your
|> anger besides tell the truth?
That's called a Freudian slip.
Cheers
Mihai
Greg Banerian
[snip]
>Sorry, guys, you may dislike him either for the content of his articles or
>for the way he abuses the discussion rules.
Is this some new "either - or" rule that you have come up with, but that
now applies to all us guys out here?
Let's face it: this Serdar Buttlick fucker is a nuisance. We all dislike
him for a variety of reasons, and don't need any rules to govern our hatred.
Kindly,
Greg Banerian
==============================================================================
THE OPINIONS ABOVE ARE WHOLLY MY OWN AND THOSE OF ANY SANE, INTELLIGENT
PERSON, BUT ARE NOT NECESSARILY THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER,
NOR SHOULD THEY BE CONSTRUED AS SUCH.
==============================================================================
hell...@cc.weber.edu
<In article <2hes3v$9...@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu< arro...@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
<<In article <2hecoe$b...@nexus.uiowa.edu< jo...@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
<<<Nobody denies that Serdar might have a legitimate complaint. The problem
<<<is not with his facts as much as it is with his method of argument. His
<<<postings frequently constitute more than half of the volume of some of the
<<<newsgroups to which he posts. I get the feeling that he operates as a
<<<"write only" user of many of these newsgroups, posting to them but never
<<<reading them, except possibly for followups to his own postings. In sum,
<<<he is a bad citizen of the network.
Yeah, but alot of people are. Especially the gun-nuts and
religious freaks who send nasty E-Mail messages (instead of
posting their venom publically). These are the ones I don't
like. Serdar really doesn't bother me a bit.
<<
<<I deny that Serdar has a legitimate complaint, and the problem _is_ with his
<<facts. His posts are about the equivalent of repeating a few hundred times
<<that the Jews actually killed the Nazis, and reactions like yours, that he's
<<presenting the material obnoxiously but that it is otherwise perfectly true,
<<are exactly his goal in posting it.
<
He wants everybody to read his stuff,
but nobody does after the first line.
Hope he doesn't discover one-liners.
<Sorry, guys, you may dislike him either for the content of his articles or
<for the way he abuses the discussion rules.
<
<Isn't it obvious that the latter reason is much stronger than the former
<one?
<
<Only a roboposter would be able to repeat 1000+ times that the Jews
<exterminated the Nazis, and to ignore the replies completely except for
<modifiing the opponents' names with 'itz' or 'er' suffixes.
<
<People naturally don't like roboposters in too high doses. Serdar is a
<legend of the net and must not be exterminated, but to reduce 'his'
<creativity by an order of magnitude would be just fine.
<
< D
Is he really a problem? Does anybody read him
(except maybe once out of curiosity?) There are
lots of pests on the net. And occasionally one
or two of them actually have something to say.
Not that this one does, but we have all seen
the type...usually planted on some street corner
shouting about God or Jesus or something. Nobody
says you have to read every article posted on the
net. That's why you hit the n-key. But I wish he
wouldn't make those titles so damn long.
HME
iska...@u.washington.edu
Ken Arromdee <arro...@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu> wrote:
>In article <2hecoe$b...@nexus.uiowa.edu> jo...@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
>>> Would someone answer this question withouyt flameing me, WHY
>>> don't you you guys dislike Serdar ? If I found out that MY grandparent's
> (apparently typo for 'do you')
>>> generation had been slaughtered I WOULD be pissed. Has everyone forgoten
>>> the leasons wwII this quickly ?
>>Nobody denies that Serdar might have a legitimate complaint. The problem
>>is not with his facts as much as it is with his method of argument. His
>>postings frequently constitute more than half of the volume of some of the
>>newsgroups to which he posts. I get the feeling that he operates as a
>>"write only" user of many of these newsgroups, posting to them but never
>>reading them, except possibly for followups to his own postings. In sum,
>>he is a bad citizen of the network.
>
>I deny that Serdar has a legitimate complaint, and the problem _is_ with his
>facts. His posts are about the equivalent of repeating a few hundred times
>that the Jews actually killed the Nazis, and reactions like yours, that he's
>presenting the material obnoxiously but that it is otherwise perfectly true,
Dear Ken
You might want to read Doug's post: he complains about the volume and
method of post of Argic.
On the truth or lack thereof of Argic's speech, he said:
>Nobody denies that Serdar might have a legitimate complaint. The problem
>is not with his facts as much as it is with his method of argument. His
which points clearly that "the problem ... is with his [Serdar's] method"
but says nothing about the veracity of the facts.
Finally there is no mention of Jews or Nazis, except in the part you
wrote (and in the header: scj).
I wish a cool and calm day
alex
James Bottomley
Except in this case it was the Turks who slaughtered the Armenians. Bit
like ex-Nazis being pissed with those _awful_ jews who kept getting in the
way of their bullets.
Other nasty things Turkey has been up to:
- wholesale massacres of Kurds
- routine torture of prisoners, both political and criminal
- apparently motiveless arest and imprisonment of foreign nationals
And Turkey wants to join the EC! They'll get a pretty firm _no_ from us
in Britain until they clean their act up and stop acting like depraved
Ottomans with people they don't like. I'm afraid Serdar is a symptom
of the general problem.
--
Jim Bottomley: ce...@uk.ac.warwick.csv
Alexander Mihai Popovici
|>
|> People naturally don't like roboposters in too high doses. Serdar is a
|> legend of the net and must not be exterminated, but to reduce 'his'
|> creativity by an order of magnitude would be just fine.
|>
|> D
Serdar is a moron who is abusing the net and everything the net stands for.
The fact that the Internet policies allow for such excesses do not make
him a legend, just a person without decency and common sense.
As for the creativity reduction I propose lobotomy.
Cheers
Mihai
Serdar Argic
>> Would someone answer this question withouyt flameing me, WHY
>>don't you you guys dislike Serdar ? If I found out that MY grandparent's
>>generation had been slaughtered I WOULD be pissed. Has everyone forgoten
>>the leasons wwII this quickly ?
>Except in this case it was the Turks who slaughtered the Armenians.
No kidding. We were also unaware that the Jews slaughtered 6 million
Nazi Armenians/Germans? What a 'bottomless' idiot?
"I killed Turks (Azeris) by every means possible. Yet
it is sometimes a pity to waste bullets for this. The
best way is to gather all of these dogs and throw
them into wells and then fill the wells with big &
heavy stones, as I did. I gathered all of the women,
men and children, threw big stones down on top of
them. They must never live on this earth."
--One of the architects of the Armenian genocide of 2.5
million Muslim people reporting in 1918.
SOURCE: A. Lalayan, Revolutsionniy Vostok
(Revolutionary East), No: 2-3,
Moscow, 1936
>Bit like ex-Nazis being pissed with those _awful_ jews who kept
>getting in the way of their bullets.
Finally. At least you have admitted the fact that x-Soviet Armenian
Government exterminated 2.5 million Muslim people between 1914 and
1920. Besides, the Harvard University historian knows better.
Source: "The Diplomacy of Imperialism" by William L. Langer, New York
(Alfred A. Knopf), 1960, pp. 157-160.
Langer writes:
Armenians would:
"watch their opportunity to kill Turks and Kurds, set fire to their
villages, and then make their escape into the mountains."
But wait, there is more. A merciless massacre of the civilian population
of the small Azeri town of Khojali (Pop. 6000) in Karabagh, Azerbaijan,
is reported to have taken place on the night of Feb. 28 under a coordinated
military operation of the 366th mechanized division of the CIS army and
the Armenian insurgents. Close to 1000 people are reported to have been
massacred. Elderly and children were not spared. Many were badly beaten
and shot at close range. A sense of rage and helplessness has overwhelmed
the Azeri population in face of the well armed and equipped Armenian
insurgency. The neighboring Azeri city of Aghdam outside of the
Karabagh region has come under heavy Armenian artillery shelling. City
hospital was hit and two pregnant women as well as a new born infant
were killed. Azerbaijan is appealing to the international community to
condemn such barbaric and ruthless attacks on its population and its
sovereignty.
>Other nasty things Turkey has been up to:
> - wholesale massacres of Kurds
No wonder people think that you are just some looney howling in the
wires. Speaking of "Kurds", though...
"Today's ethnic cleansing policies by the Serbian dictatorship against
Croatians and Muslims of Yugoslavia, as well as the Soviet Republic
of Armenia's against the Muslim population of neighboring Azerbaijan,
are really no different in their aspirations than the genocide
perpetrated by the Armenian Government 78 years ago against the
Turkish and Kurdish Muslims and Sephardic Jews living in these
lands." (Cebbar Leygara - Kurdish Leader - October 13, 1992)
Source: Hassan Arfa, "The Kurds," (London, 1968), pp. 25-26.
"When the Russian armies invaded Turkey after the Sarikamish disaster
of 1914, their columns were preceded by battalions of irregular
Armenian volunteers, both from the Caucasus and from Turkey. One of
these was commanded by a certain Andranik, a blood-thirsty adventurer.
These Armenian volunteers committed all kinds of excesses, more
than six hundred thousand Kurds being killed between 1915 and 1916 in
the eastern vilayets of Turkey."
Source: "U.S. Library of Congress:" 'Bristol Papers' - General Correspondence
Container #34.
"While the Dashnaks were in power they did everything in the world to keep the
pot boiling by attacking Kurds, Turks and Tartars; by committing outrages
against the Moslems; by massacring the Moslems; and robbing and destroying
their homes;....During the last two years the Armenians in Russian Caucasus
have shown no ability to govern themselves and especially no ability to
govern or handle other races under their power."
Sources: (The Ottoman State, the Ministry of War), "Islam Ahalinin
Ducar Olduklari Mezalim Hakkinda Vesaike Mustenid Malumat," (Istanbul, 1918).
The French version: "Documents Relatifs aux Atrocites Commises par les Armeniens
sur la Population Musulmane," (Istanbul, 1919). In the Latin script: H. K.
Turkozu, ed., "Osmanli ve Sovyet Belgeleriyle Ermeni Mezalimi," (Ankara,
1982). In addition: Z. Basar, ed., "Ermenilerden Gorduklerimiz," (Ankara,
1974) and, edited by the same author, "Ermeniler Hakkinda Makaleler -
Derlemeler," (Ankara, 1978). "Askeri Tarih Belgeleri ...," Vol. 32, 83
(December 1983), document numbered 1881.
"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri ....," Vol. 31, 81 (December 1982), document
numbered 1869.
"Those who were capable of fighting were taken away at the very beginning
with the excuse of forced labor in road construction, they were taken
in the direction of Sarikamis and annihilated. When the Russian army
withdrew, a part of the remaining people was destroyed in Armenian
massacres and cruelties: they were thrown into wells, they were locked
in houses and burned down, they were killed with bayonets and swords, in places
selected as butchering spots, their bellies were torn open, their lungs
were pulled out, and girls and women were hanged by their hair after
being subjected to every conceivable abominable act. A very small part
of the people who were spared these abominations far worse than the
cruelty of the inquisition resembled living dead and were suffering
from temporary insanity because of the dire poverty they had lived
in and because of the frightful experiences they had been subjected to.
Including women and children, such persons discovered so far do not
exceed one thousand five hundred in Erzincan and thirty thousand in
Erzurum. All the fields in Erzincan and Erzurum are untilled, everything
that the people had has been taken away from them, and we found them
in a destitute situation. At the present time, the people are subsisting
on some food they obtained, impelled by starvation, from Russian storages
left behind after their occupation of this area."
Amos Wittenberg
ce...@csv.warwick.ac.uk "James Bottomley" writes:
>Other nasty things Turkey has been up to:
>
>- wholesale massacres of Kurds
>
>- routine torture of prisoners, both political and criminal
>
>- apparently motiveless arest and imprisonment of foreign nationals
Do I not vaguely remember that they keep a chunk of some Mediterranean
island accupied as well?
>Jim Bottomley: ce...@uk.ac.warwick.csv
Related to Virginia? <gr>
--
Amos
... who has wrecked his brains to come up with a .sig line
better than the current one ...
Angelos Karageorgiou
Amos Wittenberg <am...@metallia.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <2hjsav$o...@clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
>Do I not vaguely remember that they keep a chunk of some Mediterranean
>island accupied as well?
>
>
It is called cyprus, and for that one the British Foreign Ministry is as responsible as the turks.
--
--
Angelos Karageorgiou | The opinions expressed above are nobody else's but
Yeian kai Eytyxeian | mine,MINE,MIIINNE,MIIINNEEEE,aaaarrgghhhh..(*&#$$*((+_$%
Live long & Prosper | NO CARRIER
Amos Wittenberg
akar...@nyx10.cs.du.edu "Angelos Karageorgiou" writes:
>>Do I not vaguely remember that they keep a chunk of some Mediterranean
>>island accupied as well?
>>Related to Virginia? <gr>
>It is called cyprus, and for that one the British Foreign Ministry is as
>responsible as the turks.
I know, Pamela, I know :-) Thy servant was speaking ironically. The
Virginia remark did not relate to Cyprus but to the roiginal poster's
last name. It was a bit on an in-joke between two residents of England.
Virginia Bottomley is the hugely popular Secretary of State for Health
in this country :-)
And as far as the Foreign Office is concerned, these chaps make it a
habit to promise the same country to two different nations. We know
them well.
Let's not start a thread about Cyprus in _this_ conference before our
friend MonteZuma of the Bosporus finds out and ascii-bombs it into the
Aegean Sea :-)
Say, are there also _Armenians_ in Cyprus?
Serdar Argic
>Do I not vaguely remember that they keep a chunk of some Mediterranean
>island accupied as well?
>Jim Bottomley: ce...@uk.ac.warwick.csv
Omy, omy, omy. You must be the only 'wieneramus' left on the net to
take 'Bottomless' non-existent crap at its non-existent value. The
problems in Cyprus have their origin in decades of oppression of the
Turkish population by the Greek Cypriot officials and their violation
of the co-founder status of the Turks set out in the constitution.
The coup d'etat engineered by Greece in 1974 to execute a final solution
to the Turkish problem was the savage blow that invoked Turkiye's
intervention. Turkiye intervened reluctantly and only as a last resort
after exhausting all other avenues consulting with Britain and Greece
as the other two signatories to the treaty to protect the integrity
of Cyprus. There simply was not any expansionist motivation in the
Turkish action at all. This is in dramatic contrast to the Greek
motivation which was openly expansionist, stated as 'Enosis,' union with
Greece. Since the creation of independent Cyprus in 1960, the Turkish
population, although smaller, legally had status as the co-founder
of the republic with the Greek population.
The Greek Cypriots, with the support of 'Enosis'-minded Greeks in the
mainland, have consistently ignored that status and portrayed the Island
as a Greek island with a minority population of Turks. The Turks of Cyprus
are not a minority in a Greek Republic and they found the only way they
could show that was to assert their autonomy in a separate republic.
Turkiye is not satisfied with the status quo. She would rather not be
involved with the island. But, given the dismal record of brutal Greek
oppression of the Turkish population in Cyprus, she simply cannot leave
the fate of the island's Turks in the hands of the Greeks until the Turkish
side is satisfied with whatever accord the two communities finally reach to
guarantee that history will not repeat itself to rob Turkish Cypriots of
their rights, liberties and their very lives.
Nobody has the right to ask the people of Turkiye to go through another
decade of nightmare just so that the Greek governments could give another
chance to the Greek Army to slaughter more innocent Turks. Greeks had
their chance between 1960 and 1974. But they proved beyond any doubt
that Turkish lives and rights mean nothing next to the intoxication of
their Pan-Hellenistic utopias.
The Turkish action is in conformity with Turkish history, law and
tradition, let alone with the international law. In 1974 the Junta
of Greek Colonels sent in a terrorist by the name of Sampson, who
toppled Makarios' government and began preparations to have Cyprus
annexed to 'democratic' Greece. At the same time the Greek-Cypriots
began wholesale massacres of Turkish villagers to simply eliminate
the Turkish Cypriots. It was this event that forced the Turkish
Army to land in Cyprus on July 20, 1974 and to secure the Northern
part of the island. All Turks were moved to the North and eventually
that led to the formation of the Turkish Republic of Northern
Cyprus, where Turks can now live unmolested and free. The 'democratic'
government of Greece did not go to war, but its large force on the
Island was badly defeated. The Greeks could not swallow this defeat.
There is a Turkish saying that one cannot cover up the sun with
mud.
By the way, are you 'bottomless' for real?
THE MUSEUM OF BARBARISM
2 Irfan Bey Street, Kumsal Area, Nicosia, Cyprus
It is the house of Dr. Nihat Ilhan, a major who was serving at
the Cyprus Turkish Army Contingent. During the attacks launched
against the Turks by the Greeks, on 20th December 1963, Dr. Nihat
Ilhan's wife and three children were ruthlessly and brutally
killed in the bathroom, where they had tried to hide, by savage
Greeks. Dr. Nihat Ilhan happened to be on duty that night, the
24th December 1963. Pictures reflecting Greek atrocities
committed during and after 1963 are exhibited in this house which
has been converted into a museum.
AN EYE-WITNESS ACCOUNT OF HOW A TURKISH FAMILY WAS BUTCHERED BY
GREEK TERRORISTS
The date is the 24th of December, 1963... The onslaught of the
Greeks against the Turks, which started three days ago, has been
going on with all its ferocity; and defenseless women, old men
and children are being brutally killed by Greeks. And now Kumsal
Area of Nicosia witnesses the worst example of the Greeks savage
bloodshed...
The wife and the three infant children of Dr. Nihat Ilhan, a
major on duty at the camp of the Cyprus Turkish Army Contingent,
are mercilessly and dastardly shot dead while hiding in the
bathroom of their house, by maddened Greeks who broke into their
home. A glaring example of Greek barbarism.
Let us now listen to the relating of the said incident told by
Mr. Hasan Yusuf Gudum, an eye witness, who himself was wounded
during the same terrible event.
"On the night of the 24th of December, 1963 my wife Feride Hasan
and I were paying a visit to the family of Major Dr. Nihat Ilhan.
Our neighbours Mrs. Ayshe of Mora, her daughter Ishin and Mrs.
Ayshe's sister Novber were also with us. We were all sitting
having supper. All of a sudden bullets from the Pedieos River
direction started to riddle the house, sounding like heavy rain.
Thinking that the dining-room where we were sitting was
dangerous, we ran to the bathroom and toilet which we thought
would be safer. Altogether we were nine persons. We all hid in
the bathroom except my wife who took refuge in the toilet. We
waited in fear. Mrs. Ilhan the wife of Major Doctor, was standing
in the bath with her three children Murat, Kutsi and Hakan in her
arms. Suddenly with a great noise we heard the front door open.
Greeks had come in and were combing, every corner of the house
with their machine gun bullets. During these moments I heard
voices saying, in Greek, "You want Taksim eh!" and then bullets
started flying in the bathroom. Mrs. Ilhan and her three children
fell into the bath. They were shot. At this moment the Greeks,
who broke into the bathroom, emptied their guns on us again. I
heard one of the Major's children moan, then I fainted.
When I came to myself 2 or 3 hours later, I saw Mrs. Ilhan and
her three children lying dead in the bath. I and the rest of the
neighbours in the bathroom were all seriously wounded. But what
had happened to my wife? Then I remembered and immediately ran to
the toilet, where, in the doorway, I saw her body. She was
brutally murdered.
In the street admist the sound of shots I heard voices crying
"Help, help. Is there no one to save us?" I became terrified. I
thought that if the Greeks came again and found that I was not
dead they would kill me. So I ran to the bedroom and hid myself
under the double-bed.
An our passed by. In the distance I could still hear shots. My
mouth was dry, so I came out from under the bed and drank some
water. Then I put some sweets in my pocket and went back to the
bathroom, which was exactly as I had left in an hour ago. There I
offered sweets to Mrs. Ayshe, her daughter and Mrs. Novber who
were all wounded.
We waited in the bathroom until 5 o'clock in the morning. I
thought morning would never come. We were all wounded and needed
to be taken to hospital. Finally, as we could walk, Mrs. Novber
and I, went out into the street hoping to find help, and walked
as far as Koshklu Chiftlik.
There, we met some people who took us to hospital where we were
operated on. When I regained my consciousness I said that there
were more wounded in the house and they went and brought Mrs.
Ayshe and her daughter.
After staying three days in the hospital I was sent by plane to
Ankara for further treatment. There I have had four months
treatment but still I cannot use my arm. On my return to Cyprus,
Greeks arrested me at the Airport.
All I have related to you above I told the Greeks during my
detention. They then released me."
ON FOOT INTO CYPRUS'S DEVASTATED TURKISH QUARTER
We went tonight into the sealed-off Turkish quarter of Nicosia in
which 200 to 300 people have been slaughtered in the last five
days.
We were the first Western reporters there, and we saw some
terrible sights.
In the Kumsal quarter at No. 2, Irfan Bey Sokagi, we made our way
into a house whose floors were covered with broken glass. A
child's bicycle lay in a corner.
In the bathroom, looking like a group of waxworks, were three
children piled on top of their murdered mother.
In a room next to it we glimpsed the body of a woman shot in the
head.
This, we were told, was the home of a Turkish Army major whose
family had been killed by the mob in the first violence.
Today was five days later, and still they lay there.
Rene MacCOLL and Daniel McGEACHIE, (From the "DAILY EXPRESS")
"...I saw in a bathroom the bodies of a mother and three infant
children murdered because their father was a Turkish Officer..."
Max CLOS, LE FIGARO 25-26 January, 1964
Serdar Argic
>It is called cyprus, and for that one the British Foreign Ministry
>is as responsible as the turks.
All your article reflects is your abundant ignorance. Ignorance
is probably the main reason why Greece is in such a mess. The
Greeks started massacring the Turkish population on Cyprus in
1974. How do we account for this phenomenon? Amnesia?
In 1974, Turkiye stepped into Cyprus to preserve the lives
of the Turkish population there. This is nothing but a simple
historical fact. Unfortunately, the intervention was too
late at least for some of the victims. Mass graves containing
numerous bodies of women and children already showed what
fate had been planned for a peaceful minority.
The present administration of the Turkish sector on the
island is run by men who were democratically elected. To
suggest that Rauf Denktash and his co-workers are anything
but honorable men doing a very hard job is McCarthyism
in a different form.
They are simply seeking guarantees that will preclude a
repeat performance by the fanatical cadres of the Greeks'
EOKA. If such assurances are not perfectly implemented,
there is every reason to expect that the local Greeks
will be misguided enough to perpetrate their past mistakes.
On such an occasion, the Turkish side may not find it
satisfactory to act with reluctance to go any further
than before, for it is unacceptable to remain always
defensive against cyclical vicious attacks.
Therefore it would be better to have a true federation
of two separate sections living in obligatory peace,
rather than another armed confrontation that would be
started by the Greeks and obligatorily but decisively
terminated by the Turks.
Any folly that may be said to exist in the general picture
rests with Athens. In 1974, it was the despotic colonels
of the junta there who sponsored EOKA's belligerence.
They lost in Cyprus and eventually they lost at home
also.
The present Greek government is trying to tyrannize the
Turkish population in western Thrace by forbidding it
its ethnic and religious rights, which were established
through international treaties. One might be better
advised to remember that misadventures against Turkiye
do not serve Greece well.
An offer of membership in the European Common Market
as bait for concessions that may doom the Turks in
Cyprus to extinction is not a viable course for Greece
or her friends.
Neither Turkish lives nor Turkish honor has been placed
on the bidding block to be sold for commercial gain.
It is true that the Turkish sector in Cyprus is recognized
as a state by Turkiye only. Such recognition is ample
for the time being. The preferable hope for the future
is the formation of a bona fide federation that will
afford equal and guaranteed chances of survival to both
sides.
Source: "The Road to Bellapais," by Pierre Oberling, p. 170
"The Greek government has never acknowledged the legality of the
Turkish military intervention in Cyprus. However, it is interesting
to note that the Athens Court of Appeals did so in one of its
rulings. In its Decision No. 2658/79, dated March 21, 1979, it stated:
The Turkish military intervention in Cyprus, which was carried
out in accordance with the Zurich and London Accords, was legal.
Turkey, as one of the Guarantor Powers, had the right to fulfill
her obligations. The real culprits... are the Greek officers who
engineered and staged a coup and prepared the conditions for this
intervention."
Serdar Argic
>Let's not start a thread about Cyprus in _this_ conference before our
>friend MonteZuma of the Bosporus finds out and ascii-bombs it into the
>Aegean Sea :-)
C'mon, you still haven't corrected yourself and Bottomless' blatant
lies. The people of Turkiye, following Sampson's coup, urged first
Greece then Britain to intervene. Both refused. Therefore, Turkiye
had to intervene militarily to live up to her treaty responsibilities.
What 'Bottomless Furrians/Arromdians' conveniently decline to do is
to reveal the massacres that Greeks and Greek Cypriots perpetrated
on the Turkish Cypriots for almost 20 years prior to 1974. First of
all, it was not an 'illegal invasion' but a 'legal intervention,'
specified as an obligation in the Article IV of the Treaty of
Guarantees signed between Turkiye, Greece and Britain.
Article IV of the 1960 Tripartite Treaty of Guarantee among Great
Britain, Turkiye, and Greece gave Turkiye the right to intervene if
the 1960 agreement was violated. When Greece invaded the island on
July 15, 1974, and then tried to annex it, the Turkish government
acted to establish an area in northern Cyprus where Turkish Cypriots
could live free of fear.
The August 30, 1974, "Die Zeit" German newspaper report of "the
Massacre of Turkish Cypriots in Paphos and Famagusta," proves how
justified the Turks were in undertaking their intervention.
In 1974, on the Island of Cyprus, Turks prevented Rightist Greek
revolutionaries from toppling the Cypriot Makarios government. This
involvement brought down the Rightest general's junta on the mainland
and allowed Greece to return to democracy.
19 years ago today, the fate of Cyprus was being changed irreversibly
and dramatically. During the preceding 11 years, Cyprus witnessed the
darkest decade in her entire history; Greek Cypriot aggression against the
Turkish Cypriots scattered all over the island, massacres, massgraves,
barbarism, untold suffering and the ethnic cleansing of the Turkish Cypriot
people in their own homeland was being implemented day by day.
The latest blow came from the colonels of Greece who organized a COUP
D'ETAT on July 15, 1974. This simply meant the annexation of Cyprus
to Greece, ENOSIS, and Greece, being a guarantor power according to the
international agreements of 1960, invaded the island and opened the darkest
page in the history of Cyprus. Thousands of Turkish Cypriot lives were
in absolute danger more than ever, let alone the Greek Cypriots who were
also targetted by the Greek Junta. As Sabahattin Ismail writes in "20 July
Peace Operation: reasons-development and consequences":
"The Greek Cypriot authorities have never officially announced
the number and names of the persons killed during the coup. But considering
Makarios's statement in the U.N. Security Council a few days after the coup
calling for 'immediate intervention to end the tragedy' because the
'number of losses is great', and also, taking into account the casualty
figures quoted (in thousands) in the foreign press, as supplied by the
eyewitnesses including Greek Cypriots feeling from the vengeance of the
coup leaders - it can be safely assumed that most of the Greek Cypriot
casualties occired during the Sampson coup. The Greek Cypriot leaders
know this to be true but they do not dare admit it to their community.
So, they have artificially created a missing perosns problem to create the
impression that the Turks are responsible for Greek losses.
In the final analysis, however, disclosures like those of Papatsestos,
Mr. Costas Partassides and others, indicate where the greek Community -
and the whole world, for that matter- will have to look for the missing
Greek Cypriots"
Just a week from today, North Cyprus will remember, with
disgrace and hatred, the darkest day in the entire history
of the island. 19 years ago this day a so-called Greek
Cypriot "hero" attempted to finalize the decades long
aspirations of ENOSIS minded Greeks and Greek Cypriots
by officially annexing the island to Greece after a military
coup d'etat. It resulted in todays irreversible consequences
and the creation of two independent states in the island.
It sparked Turkiye's military intervention, which brought
permanent peace to Cyprus, the PEACE that the United Nations
was incapable of establishing during the preceding decade,
and the PEACE that put an end to the massacres of hundreds
of Turkish Cypriots, the massgraves, and the untold suffering
for more than a decade.
He was used to be called the "little Nikos" back in 1950's.
He had energy, courage, and military specialty - shooting the
British soldiers in the back...
A commander in the Greek Cypriot terrorist organization EOKA,
and a chief executioner in the Ledra Street, Nicosia...
A former street fighter and an assassin...
The improbable new 'President' for only a week...
The babyfaced murderer...
An EOKA killer...
Leader of murder sprees through the island's scattered and
isolated Turkish community...
THE BUTCHER OF OMORPHITA...
The Enosis cheerleader, with a child brain...
A 'civilised' BARBAR...
And the CRIMINAL currently at large.
NICHOLAS GEORGIADIS SAMPSON
If there is someone to be questioned for the lost property, or
missing persons, it is this BUTCHER, who has been released from
his cell by the Greek Cypriot administration a few years ago.
He indeed changed the history of the island, permanently, and
played a key role for the emergence of two independent states
that Cyprus enjoys today.
Serdar Argic
>X.500 Common Name : Ahmet Cosar-1
What is your problem with it? Remember, here is what we all saw in
the library.
"These European Dashnags, with headquarters in Berlin, appealed to,
and bargained with Hitler's emissaries for an 'independent'
Armenian state. That they had to bootlick Nazi masters goes without
saying. That, as potential officials of a puppet Nazi state, they
would have assumed the infamous roles of the Paveliches, Antonescus,
Lavals, Tisos or Vidkun Quislings was also a foregone conclusion.
Once committed to it, there was no alternative to the price for
'independence' except subservience to Hitler."[1]
[1] Arthur Derounian under the pseudonym 'John Roy Carlson,'
"The Armenian Displaced Persons," in the "Armenian Affairs,"
a Quarterly Journal of Armenian Studies, Winter 1949-50, p. 18.
As early as 1934, K. S. Papazian asserted in 'Patriotism Perverted' that
the Armenians
'lean toward Fascism and Hitlerism.'[1]
At that time, he could not have foreseen that the Armenians would
actively assume a pro-German stance and even collaborate in World
War II. His book was dealing with the Armenian genocide of the Muslim
population of Eastern Anatolia. However, extreme rightwing ideological
tendencies could be observed within the Dashnagtzoutune long before
the outbreak of the Second World War.
In 1936, for example, O. Zarmooni of the 'Tzeghagrons' was quoted
in the 'Hairenik Weekly:'
"The race is force: it is treasure. If we follow history we shall
see that races, due to their innate force, have created the nations
and these have been secure only insofar as they have reverted to
the race after becoming a nation. Today Germany and Italy are
strong because as nations they live and breath in terms of race.
On the other hand, Russia is comparatively weak because she is
bereft of social sanctities."[2]
[1] K. S. Papazian, 'Patriotism Perverted,' (Boston, Baikar Press
1934), Preface.
[2] 'Hairenik Weekly,' Friday, April 10, 1936, 'The Race is our
Refuge' by O. Zarmooni.
And today...
The following news from Turan News Agency in Baku-Azerbaijan
is brought to you as a service of:
<Azerbaijan Aydinlig Association>
P.O. Box 14571
Berkeley, CA 94701
FAX: (804) 490-3832
Email: fa...@mem.odu.edu
P L E A S E make a hard copy of the news available to an Azerbaijani near you!
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
H E A D L I N E S |
* AZERBAIJAN'S GOVERNMENT APPEALS TO COMPATRIOTS ALL OVER THE WORLD
* 60 REFUGEES FROM KELBAJAR PERISHED IN THEIR ESCAPE LORRIES
* SITUATION IN THE REGION OF KELBAJAR
* ARMENIAN ARMY CONTINUES ATTACK ON FIZULI
* PRESS-CONFERENCE OF THE CHIEF OF PRESS-SERVICE OF PRESIDENT OF AZERBAIJAN
* AZERBAIJANIS PICKET IN FRONT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF RUSSIA
* PICKET OF SADVALERS IN MOSCOW
* ATTACK OF ARMENIAN UNITS STOPPED
* STATEMENT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF AZERBAIJAN
AZERBAIJAN'S GOVERNMENT APPEALS TO COMPATRIOTS ALL OVER THE WORLD
BAKU (APRIL 5) TURAN: Today, Azerbaijan's government appealed
to Azeris all over the world in connection with escalation of the
Armenian aggression against the republic.
It is stressed in appeal that the experience of five-years of fighting
for independence from imperial chains shows a grim process . The war
against Azerbaijan under the pretence of protecting the human rights of
the Armenians of Ukhari (Upper) Garabag, has meant the destruction of
Azeri villages and towns, occupation of 10 percent of the territory, 60
thousand new refugees in addition to 500 thousand already in place.
This is all the price of fighting for liberty from Russian imperial rule,
is said in the document.
Azerbaijan's government appeals to all compatriots to make every
effort to inform the people of the world about the truth in Azerbaijan,
and to assistance in solving the problems facing the young state.
It is stressed in the appeal that there is urgent need for medicine,
food, experienced doctors and financial help to settle refugees from
Kelbajar, Fizuli and Lachin regions, and to render medical aid for the
sick and the wounded men.--O--
60 REFUGEES FROM KELBAJAR PERISHED IN THEIR ESCAPE LORRIES
BAKU (APRIL 5) TURAN: Today, during the evacuation from Kelbajar
region, 60 refugees on board two lorries were killed in the fire from the
Armenian Tanks on the only road to leave Kelbajar. According to press
-service of Azerbaijan president, no one survived the tragedy. --O--
SITUATION IN THE REGION OF KELBAJAR
BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Attempts to evacuate the rest of 15,000
citizens, encircled on alpine villages of the region of Kelbajar
went on within the last twenty-four hours. Evacuation helicopters
could not land near these villages because of shelling from the
Armenian side and existence of fog. Measures are undertaken to air-drop
food and medicine to the encircled people.
Several hundred people succeed within the last twenty-four hours to
get out of the region of Kelbajar via mountain range. Refugees are
settled in the neighboring regions of Azerbaijan and in Ganja.
Authorities face serious problem with rendering refugees medical
aid and food. The number of refugees from Kelbajar is over 40,000 people.
Azerbaijan is not capable of handling a disaster of this magnitude.--0--
ARMENIAN ARMY CONTINUES ATTACK ON FIZULI
BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: The region of Fizuli of Azerbaijan,
situated outside of the territory of Daglig (Nagorno) Garabag, has been
subjected to heaviest attacks of Armenian army for the fourth day. About
30 armored technique and more than 500 soldiers of the enemy are taking
part in the attack.
Armenian units broke the defence line of the azeri forces and occupied
the ruling height from where the town is shelled from "Grad" installations,
this morning. There is heavy destructions in the town and more than 20
people are dead. Population of the town is hastily evacuated.--0--
PRESS-CONFERENCE OF THE CHIEF OF PRESS-SERVICE OF PRESIDENT OF AZERBAIJAN
BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Fifty-five thousand refugees from the region
of Kelbajar were taken out by 11 o'clock on April 5, informed the chief
of the press-service of president of Azerbaijan, Arif Aliev, today.
Journalists were also informed at the press-conference that
International Red Cross is helping to accept and render refugees medical
aid. There is an urgent need to supply the refugees with tents, food and
medical aid.
Arif Aliev informed that as a result of the ongoing tragedy brought
on by the latest aggression of Armenia, the leadership of Azerbaijan
intends to appeal to Azerbaijanis and all those who treasure human life
all over the world for help.
Concerning the reaction of the international community to aggression
of Armenia, Aliev said the department of state of the USA has expressed
its anxiety to leadership of Armenia.
Participants of peace efforts in Daglig (Nagorno) Garabag under
CSCE, Rafaelli, Mareska and Chetin strongly blamed the aggression of
Armenia against Azerbaijan.
Leader of press-service informed that tomorrow ambassador of
Azerbaijan in Russia, Hikmet Haji-zade, will conduct a press-conference
in Moscow. Detailed information on latest events in the region of
Kelbajar of Azerbaijan will be given at the press-conference.--0--
AZERBAIJANIS PICKET IN FRONT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF RUSSIA
BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Azerbaijanis, living in Moscow, picketed
in front of the building of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia.
Picket was conducted as a token of protest against participation of
Russian units in capture of the region of Kelbajar of Azerbaijan by
Armenians. About 100 people took part in the picket, organized by
Azerbaijani society "Dayag".--0--
PICKET OF SADVALERS IN MOSCOW
BAKU (5 APRIL) 30-40 members of "Sadval" society picketed before
the building of permanent representation of Azerbaijan in Moscow.
Picketers were demanding the return of Lezghins lands, as if annexed
by Azerbaijan.
Ambassador of Azerbaijan in Moscow, Hikmet Haji-zade classified
this action as provocation aimed at creating a further inter-ethnic
conflict in Azerbaijan. He marked in his talk with the Turan
correspondent that he does not rule out a connection between the
Armenian aggression in the region of Kelbajar and this anti-
azerbaijani action of the "Sadval" society in Moscow. He also
marked that 30-40 people do not mean the Lezghian nationality in
the whole.
Society of Lezghins, "Sadval", registered in Moscow in 1990,
demands the creation of a Lezghistan state, which never existed
before on the northern territories of Azerbaijan.--0--
ATTACK OF ARMENIAN UNITS STOPPED
BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Attack of Armenian army on the town of
Fizuli, which began in the last twenty-four hours, is stopped, informs
the press-service of the Ministry of Defence of Azerbaijan.
In the result of undertaken measures, 6 tanks and a number of
the attackers were destroyed. Advance units of the Armenian army
retreated several kilometers.
Chairman of the parliament, Isa Gambar, visited the town of
Fizuli and met with commanders of the units of the national army
and local citizens, today.--0--
STATEMENT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF AZERBAIJAN
BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Azerbaijan
issued a statement in connection with aggression of Armenia in the
region of Kelbajar of Azerbaijan.
It is stated in the statement that regular units of the armed
forces of Armenia captured the town of Kelbajar on April 3 .
Attack of Armenian units, which began on March 27 deep in the
territory of Azerbaijan still continues. Armenia has occupied at
present 7500 sq.km of the territory of Azerbaijan.
Spreading of Armenian aggression far away from Ukhari (Upper)
Garabag proves that the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflicts has entered a
specially dangerous phase. This is the result of non-recognition of
Armenia as an aggressor by the international community, is marked
in the document.
It is stressed in the statement that the units of the 7th Russian
army are participating in the Armenian attack. This casts doubt on
the sincerity of Russian mediation efforts in finding a peaceful
solution to the conflict.
It is marked in conclusion that aggressive actions of Armenia
have wrecked the negotiation process under aegis of CSCE.
The document contains the appeal to the world community to stop
Armenian aggression and to use political and economic sanctions
against the aggressor.--0--
Serdar Argic
>Helllooooo, Serdar!
Recalling in joy your fascist Armenian grandparents or your criminal
handlers at SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government?
'After all, who remembers today the extermination of the Tartars?'
(Adolf Hitler, August 22, 1939: Ruth W. Rosenbaum (Durusoy),
"The Turkish Holocaust - Turk Soykirimi", p. 213.)
>Anyone in Minnesota want to drop by and whomp him good sometime?
You seem so into the idea of 'Armenian Crimes'. Is this what turns you
on? Well, you've just landed on the right planet. Remember, these are
your criminal Armenian grandparents.
Source: Documents: Volume I (1919).
"Document No: 76," Archive No: 1/2, Cabin No: 109, Drawer
No: 3, File No: 346, Section No: 427(1385), Contents No: 3, 52-53.
(To Lt. Colonel Seyfi, General Headquarters, Second Section,
Istanbul - Dr. Stephan Eshnanie)
'Neues Wiener Tagblatt' - Vienna, 'Pester Lloyd' 'Local Anzliger' - Berlin,
'Algemeen Handelsblat' - Amsterdam, 'Vakit' - Istanbul.
"I have been closely following for two weeks the withdrawal of Russians and
Armenians from Turkish territories through Armenia. Although two months
have elapsed since the clearing of the territories of Armenian gangs, I
have been observing the evidence of the cruelties of the Armenians at
almost every step. All the villages from Trabzon to Erzincan and from
Erzincan to Erzurum are destroyed. Corpses of Turks brutally and cruelly
slain are everywhere. According to accounts by those who were able to
save their lives by escaping to mountains, the first horrible and fearful
events begun when the Russian forces evacuated the places which were then
taken over by Armenian gangs. The Russians usually treated the people
well, but the people feared the intervention of the Armenians. Once these
places had been taken over by the Armenians, however, the massacres begun.
They clearly announced their intention of clearing what they called the
Armenian and Kurdish land from the Turks and thus, solve the nationality
problem. Today I had the opportunity to meet Austrian and German soldiers
who had escaped from Russian prison camps and come from Kars and
Alexander Paul (Gumru-Leninakan)...
They had told me how Armenian gangs murdered 360 Turkish prisoners of war
in Kars and Alexanderpolis. Russian officers tried to save the Turks and
there were clashes between Russian officers and Armenian gangs. I am now
in Erzurum, and what I see is terrible. Almost the whole city is destroyed.
The smell of the corpses still fills the air. Although there are speculations
that Armenian gangs murdered Austrian and German prisoners as well, I
could not get the supporting evidence in this regard, but there is proof
of murdering of Turkish prisoners of war."
Dr. Stephan Eshnanie
Serdar Argic
>Of course you can be more direct about it and mail to
>ro...@anatolia.org which of course is the mail handler
A self-admitted/exposed SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government-paid
criminal in action. Just try it and watch. Remember Mr 'SDPA
crook', "genocide" is not something "Armenians" wish for; it's
something "Armenians" make, something "Armenians" do, something
"Armenians" are, and something "Armenians" give away. The Encyclopedia
Americana gives, in extenso, the following explanations about the
origins and the original fatherland of the Armenians:
"It was probably toward the end of the 7th century B.C. that a new
people, known in history under the name armenians and speaking
an Indo-European language, came from the west (according to some
ancient Greek historians and geographers, they came from the
Balkan peninsula together with the Phrygians) and occupied the
land of Urartu."[1]
[1] The Encyclopedia Americana, 1956 Edition, Chapter Armenians, p. 267.
Sarkis Atamian explains in his book called 'The Armenian Community,
New York 1955, Philosophical Library' that, according to historians,
original fatherland of the Armenians was in Thessaly, Greece.
Armenian invaders burned and sacked the fatherland of Urartus,
massacred and exterminated its population and presented to the
world all those left from the Urartus, as the Armenian civilization.
All reliable 'non-Muslim' historians describe how Armenians ruthlessly
exterminated 2.5 million Muslim women, children and elderly people of
Eastern Anatolia and x-Soviet Armenia, and how they collaborated with
the enemies of the Muslim people between 1914-1920.
It is unfortunately a truth that Armenians are known as collaborators
of the Nazis during World War II and that, even today, criminal
members of SDPA preach and instigate racism, hatred, violence and
terrorism among peoples.
Colonel Semen M. Budienny, a subsequent Soviet military fame,
said about the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million defenseless
Turkish and Kurdish women, children and elderly people during
his visit to Anatolia in June 1919 that
"the Armenians had become troublemakers, their Hinchakist
and Dashnakist parties were opportunist, serving as lackeys
of whatever power happened to be ascendent."
In September 16, 1920, Major General W. Thwaites, Director of
Military Intelligence, wrote to Lord Hardinge, Under-Secretary
of State for Foreign Affairs:
"...it is useless to pretend that the Armenians are satisfactory
allies, or deserving of all the sympathy to which they claim."[1]
[1] F.O. 331/3411/158288.
In the Special Collection at Stanford Hoover Library, donated by
Georgia Cutler, the letter dated Nov. 1, 1943 states that
"Prescot Hall wrote a large volume to prove that Armenians were
not and never could be desirable citizens, that they would
always be unscrupulous merchants."
And today...
12/12 Armenian Atrocities Reported
MOSCOW (AP) -- Azerbaijani forces on Saturday retook
three villages seized by Armenians and discovered 16 bodies
of executed civilians, Azerbaijani reports said.
The Azerbaijani fighters found 16 bodies of civilians,
including those of a child and two elderly women who were
shot point-blank, "and survivors were killed by a shot to
the back of the head," said a ministry statement, carried by
the Azerbaijani Azerinform and Turan news agencies and the
ITAR-Tass news service.
"Everywhere Armenian occupants were, they left tens of
corpses of civilians shot to death point-blank and
mutilated," the...
Serdar Argic
>Do I not vaguely remember that they keep a chunk of some Mediterranean
>island accupied as well?
>Jim Bottomley: ce...@uk.ac.warwick.csv
Omy, omy, omy. You must be the only 'wieneramus' left on the net to
THE MUSEUM OF BARBARISM
Serdar Argic