AKICIF: Literary agents
Marty Helgesen
reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
a book and doubted that it existed because I couldn't imagine the market
for it. I looked at Literary Market Place, but, as I expected, it
just listed agents, without identifying their clients. Is there such
a book /a/n/d /i/f /s/o/, /w/h/y? I ask entirely out of idle curiosity.
I have no idea who the caller was, so I couldn't tell her even if someone
identifies it. (I know she was calling from an on-campus phone because
the phones ring with different sounds depending on whether the call is
from on- or off-campus.)
-------
Marty Helgesen
Bitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm Internet: mn...@cunyvm.cuny.edu
"Our scene opens on a police tram steaming through the South China Sea."
Help outlaw spam. For further information see http://www.cauce.org/
Dorothy J Heydt
Marty Helgesen <MN...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> wrote:
>A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
>reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
>caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
>who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
There is neither such a book nor such a website, for a moderately
obvious reason: it would violate confidentiality.
In most cases who is represented by whom is no big secret, but it
still doesn't get listed in public.
(Besides, a book of that kind would get obsolete awfully quickly.)
A lightning-quick look at www.sfwa.org doesn't mention anything
in particular about agents, but there might be something down in
the sub-pages somewhere. There's undoubtedly good advice on how
to choose one and how to avoid the creeps.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
P Nielsen Hayden
Marty Helgesen <MN...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> wrote:
>A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
>reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
>caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
>who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
>a book and doubted that it existed because I couldn't imagine the market
>for it. I looked at Literary Market Place, but, as I expected, it
>just listed agents, without identifying their clients. Is there such
>a book /a/n/d /i/f /s/o/, /w/h/y? I ask entirely out of idle curiosity.
>I have no idea who the caller was, so I couldn't tell her even if someone
>identifies it. (I know she was calling from an on-campus phone because
>the phones ring with different sounds depending on whether the call is
>from on- or off-campus.)
I've never heard of such a reference book. If you want to know who
represents an author, ask that author. If you want to know who an
agent represents, ask the agent. Neither party generally has much
interest in concealing this information.
--
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@panix.com : http://www.panix.com/~pnh
P Nielsen Hayden
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <00356.15...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>,
>Marty Helgesen <MN...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> wrote:
>>A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
>>reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
>>caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
>>who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
>>a book ...
>
>There is neither such a book nor such a website, for a moderately
>obvious reason: it would violate confidentiality.
Whose confidentiality?
In my experience, "confidentiality" is most often cited by scam
artists posing as real literary agents, as an excuse for not providing
a client list.
It sounds plausible, but think about it: what on earth is the use of a
_secret_ author-agent relationship?
No, I'm not asking for rasff to come up with a bunch of imaginatively
tortured answers. I'm talking about the real world here.
>In most cases who is represented by whom is no big secret, but it
>still doesn't get listed in public.
Author-agent relationships are mentioned _all the time_ in public. In
PUBLISHERS WEEKLY, in LOCUS, in all kinds of industry journals.
>(Besides, a book of that kind would get obsolete awfully quickly.)
That's a good reason such a book would have limitations on its
usefulness. But the idea that author-agent relationships are a big
secret is just silly. If your agent's relationship to you is a
secret, you need a new agent.
Eric Mayer
>
>I've never heard of such a reference book. If you want to know who
>represents an author, ask that author. If you want to know who an
>agent represents, ask the agent. Neither party generally has much
>interest in concealing this information.
>
I've never heard of such a book either but I must say I'm amazed that
Writer's Digest doesn't have such a thing -- years ago a section of
one of their publications listed a bunch of so-called agents. I
suspect legitimate agents tend to be overwhelmed by prospective
clients and don't even want that kind of publicity. I only mention
this because the idea of a book like that reminds me of the sad
thought I often have -- that there seems to be more money to be made
ripping off would-be writers than there is in actually writing.
--
Eric Mayer
Web Site: <http://home.epix.net/~maywrite>
"The map is not the territory." -- Alfred Korzybski
Rob Wynne
> I only mention
>this because the idea of a book like that reminds me of the sad
>thought I often have -- that there seems to be more money to be made
>ripping off would-be writers than there is in actually writing.
There's an Agents FAQ maintained by the Horror Writers Association:
http://www.horror.org/agents.htm
Rob
--
Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat / d...@america.net
The best original science-fiction and fantasy on the web:
Aphelion Webzine: http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/
Gafilk 2001: Jan 5-7, 2001, Atlanta, GA -- http://www.gafilk.org
Here among the madness, don't forget it's all for dragons and stars.
--Maureen O'Brien
Irv Koch
<snip>
> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >In article <00356.15...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>,
> >Marty Helgesen <MN...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> wrote:
> >>A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
> >>reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
> >>caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
> >>who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
> >>a book ...
<snip lots of stuff I highly agree with, well put>
> No, I'm not asking for rasff to come up with a bunch of imaginatively
> tortured answers. I'm talking about the real world here.
>
> >In most cases who is represented by whom is no big secret, but it
> >still doesn't get listed in public.
<snip more stuff in which Patrick debunks the above>
<goes to file cabinet>
If someone else already posted the following, I'll blame it on
Earthling/Mindspring/Sprintmail's "missing message" problem. In the
front of the "2000 SFWA DIRECTORY" it states "SFWA distributes the SFWA
Directory to members. ... Those with a professional interest in science
fiction or fantasy (editor, agents, and so forth) may obtain copies for
$60 US from the executive director. ..."
The Directory ALWAYS has a special section on who is represented by whom
and a cross index. I suspect there ARE other sources of "who is
represented by whom" and there are MANY MANY good reasons for such being
compiled.
There's even one guy who specializes in being the "default" agent for
long dead authors with no other obvious representative (or something
similar to such case). Forest J. Ackerman.
Knowing such stuff is quite important when one has any thought of doing
an anthology or buying some obscure rights to some obscure story by a
little known author.
Irv Koch
>
> A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
> reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
> caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
> who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
> a book and doubted that it existed because I couldn't imagine the market
> for it. I looked at Literary Market Place, but, as I expected, it
> just listed agents, without identifying their clients. Is there such
> a book /a/n/d /i/f /s/o/, /w/h/y? I ask entirely out of idle curiosity.
Some reasons such a reference source is handy:
(1) OUTSIDE Sf&f, specifically for some big name Mystery writers, you
have to go to the agent to ask them to be a guest at a con. Been there,
done that. MUCH rather be able to look the author and their agent up in
a Sisters In Crime semi-annual publication.
(2) Would be editors about to do an anthology and they don't even know
how to contact the author. Can't just write c/o their last publisher
either as said "last publisher" is NOT on good terms with <take your
pick>.
(3) Variants of item 2 for specialized rights (e.g. games), dead
authors, etc.
(4) Variants of item 1 for speakers at college or other events (e.g.,
keynote speakers at the monthly meeting of the Society For Whateveritis
in Omaha, NB, and they haven't a clue where the out-of-print but
of-interest-to-them author lives). Granted that finding the agent may
not be the best way to go.
(5) Someone is looking for an agent and isn't in sf fandom or a related
field. They want to know what agents specialize in representing writers
of Northwestern Regional Fiction (or some such) ... or nonfiction about
plumbing.
P Nielsen Hayden
Irv Koch <irv...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
>There's even one guy who specializes in being the "default" agent for
>long dead authors with no other obvious representative (or something
>similar to such case). Forest J. Ackerman.
<strangled sound>
gfa...@savvy.com
> A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
> reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
> caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
> who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
> a book and doubted that it existed because I couldn't imagine the market
> for it. I looked at Literary Market Place, but, as I expected, it
> just listed agents, without identifying their clients. Is there such
> a book /a/n/d /i/f /s/o/, /w/h/y? I ask entirely out of idle curiosity.
> I have no idea who the caller was, so I couldn't tell her even if someone
> identifies it. (I know she was calling from an on-campus phone because
> the phones ring with different sounds depending on whether the call is
> from on- or off-campus.)
The SFWA Directory lists clients of agents, last I looked, but it's not a
"book."
--
Gary Farber New York
gfa...@savvy.com
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
wrote:
>On 21 Dec 2000 21:46:13 GMT, p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden) wrote:
>>
>>I've never heard of such a reference book. If you want to know who
>>represents an author, ask that author. If you want to know who an
>>agent represents, ask the agent. Neither party generally has much
>>interest in concealing this information.
>>
> I've never heard of such a book either but I must say I'm amazed that
>Writer's Digest doesn't have such a thing
http://www.writersdigest.com/ probably has their Guide to Literary
Agents for sale there. I don't know whether it's cross-referenced with
writers.
>I only mention
>this because the idea of a book like that reminds me of the sad
>thought I often have -- that there seems to be more money to be made
>ripping off would-be writers than there is in actually writing.
http://www.sfwa.org/ -> Writers Beware and Editors&Preditors.
Association of Authors' Representatives, http://wwwbookwire.com/AAR/
has general info about agents. Writer's Digest site probably has
something, too. They had a feature on writer-agent relationship in
their July 1999 issue.
vlatko
--
_Neither Fish Nor Fowl_
http://www.webart.hr/~jkv/eng/index.htm
Interviews: Jo Walton, David Langford, Ken Macleod
vlatko.ju...@zg.tel.hr
P Nielsen Hayden
It's also technically not supposed to be distributed to non-members --
a lot of the personal-address and phone-number info in there is
arguably more legitimately "confidential" than public relationships
between authors and agents are. Not that this is widely respected;
SFWA directories get handed around anyway.
Irv Koch
> On Fri, 22 Dec 2000 03:50:33 GMT,
> Irv Koch <irv...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
> >There's even one guy who specializes in being the "default" agent for
> >long dead authors with no other obvious representative (or something
> >similar to such case). Forest J. Ackerman.
>
> <strangled sound>
Oh my. </humor on> Patrick at a loss for words and using
quasi-emoticons. <while I laugh myself silly> I can think of any number
of reasons, and am, after all, only reporting the facts, so the poor
librarian can get some idea of the situation.
Who better to represent dead authors than a person so close to the
grave.
</humor off>
Of course outside SF&F, it's not that easy to find information when it's
needed. And, as far as the SFWA Directory goes, many authors shift to
PO Boxes and don't give sensitive phone numbers, if they have problems.
Patrick Connors
: It sounds plausible, but think about it: what on earth is the use of a
: _secret_ author-agent relationship?
: No, I'm not asking for rasff to come up with a bunch of imaginatively
: tortured answers. I'm talking about the real world here.
Phooey. You're no fun.
And I feel obligated as a punster to point out that Ian Fleming
obviously had an author-secret agent relationship with James Bond.
--
Patrick Connors |
| Smile! The fresh air's good for your teeth.
| -- Jack Bogut, KDKA Radio, 1970s
|
Patrick Connors
: Whose confidentiality?
A book would have limitations on its usefulness just due to the
publishing cycle, of course. But I'm surprised such a website doesn't
exist already - it would be relatively easy to implement. Perhaps
there's no money in it. H'mmm...
Joel Rosenberg
Last I heard, the Directory was officially for sale for $25 to anybody
who could persuade the SFWA Secretary that they had a legitimate
reason for having it. During the Pautz secretaryship, I suspect that
few, if any, copies were bought; the secretary apparently had more
pressing matters to deal with than handling routine mail.
gfa...@savvy.com
> P Nielsen Hayden wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Dec 2000 03:50:33 GMT,
>> Irv Koch <irv...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
>> >There's even one guy who specializes in being the "default" agent for
>> >long dead authors with no other obvious representative (or something
>> >similar to such case). Forest J. Ackerman.
>>
>> <strangled sound>
> Oh my. </humor on> Patrick at a loss for words and using
> quasi-emoticons. <while I laugh myself silly> I can think of any number
> of reasons, and am, after all, only reporting the facts, so the poor
> librarian can get some idea of the situation.
I wasn't aware that "words" were "quasi-emoticons."
More to the point, Forry is not universally known as a hero amongst those
who have had professional acquaintanceship with his dealings. Though it's
possible that one might note that his interest in ghouls has often been
admiring, and beneficial, in more than one way.
[. . . .]
Marty Helgesen
<SNIP>
>Some reasons such a reference source is handy:
>(1) OUTSIDE Sf&f, specifically for some big name Mystery writers, you
>have to go to the agent to ask them to be a guest at a con. Been there,
>done that. MUCH rather be able to look the author and their agent up in
>a Sisters In Crime semi-annual publication.
>(2) Would be editors about to do an anthology and they don't even know
>how to contact the author. Can't just write c/o their last publisher
>either as said "last publisher" is NOT on good terms with <take your
>pick>.
>(3) Variants of item 2 for specialized rights (e.g. games), dead
>authors, etc.
>(4) Variants of item 1 for speakers at college or other events (e.g.,
>keynote speakers at the monthly meeting of the Society For Whateveritis
>in Omaha, NB, and they haven't a clue where the out-of-print but
>of-interest-to-them author lives). Granted that finding the agent may
>not be the best way to go.
>
>(5) Someone is looking for an agent and isn't in sf fandom or a related
>field. They want to know what agents specialize in representing writers
>of Northwestern Regional Fiction (or some such) ... or nonfiction about
>plumbing.
some people. One question is whether there are enough people who
would want to use it to provide an adequate market for it, either
directly or through libraries that would think it would be useful
for their patrons. As someone else suggested, a web site might be
more feasible, but a web site still would involve a lot of work.
Ed Dravecky III
> P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
> : It sounds plausible, but think about it: what on earth is the
> : asking for rasff to come up with a bunch of imaginatively
> : tortured answers. I'm talking about the real world here.
>
> Phooey. You're no fun.
> And I feel obligated as a punster to point out that Ian Fleming
> obviously had an author-secret agent relationship with James Bond.
Bad Patrick! I'm giving you a number and taking away your name.
--
Ed Dravecky III
(ed3 at panix.com)
gfa...@savvy.com
> In article <00356.15...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>,
> Marty Helgesen <MN...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> wrote:
>>A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
>>reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
>>caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
>>who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
>>a book ...
> There is neither such a book nor such a website, for a moderately
> obvious reason: it would violate confidentiality.
Um, what?
I don't think I've ever encountered a writer who wouldn't say who their
agent is, or a legitimate agent who wouldn't list their clients. Um,
respectfully, what are you talking about, Dorothy?
> In most cases who is represented by whom is no big secret, but it
> still doesn't get listed in public.
> (Besides, a book of that kind would get obsolete awfully quickly.)
Well, mostly folks keep their agent for a few years, actually. It's no less
frequent a turnover in topic than that for *many* books.
> A lightning-quick look at www.sfwa.org doesn't mention anything
> in particular about agents, but there might be something down in
> the sub-pages somewhere. There's undoubtedly good advice on how
> to choose one and how to avoid the creeps.
And there's the Directory, which probably has a couple of thousand bootleg
photocopies.
Joel Rosenberg
> In article <G5xt6...@kithrup.com> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> > In article <00356.15...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>,
> > Marty Helgesen <MN...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> wrote:
> >>A little while ago I was working at the library's information desk,
> >>reading raseff when I wasn't busy, when I got a telephone call. The
> >>caller was looking for a book that would identify the literary agents
> >>who represent various authors. I replied that I had never heard of such
> >>a book ...
>
> > There is neither such a book nor such a website, for a moderately
> > obvious reason: it would violate confidentiality.
>
> Um, what?
>
> I don't think I've ever encountered a writer who wouldn't say who their
> agent is, or a legitimate agent who wouldn't list their clients. Um,
> respectfully, what are you talking about, Dorothy?
>
I know of at least two agents who, at some point, would not have wanted
a list of his and/or her clients a matter of public record, as the list
was shrinking fairly dramatically, fairly quickly.
Other than that sort of thing, I can't think of an example.
P Nielsen Hayden
Okay, fair point. However, this is not an argument for the assertion
that "confidentiality" is an "obvious" reason for most authors and
agents to be opposed to people knowing who is whose agent.
That it's _public_ is part of the essence of the author-agent
relationship; it provides the author with someone separate to whom
business dealings can be referred, and thus creates for the author a
zone of privacy around their everyday life.
Joel Rosenberg
Sure.
That said, I've heard -- over and over again -- that in Hollywood, who
one's agent is something that many (most? I dunno) writers don't want
bruited about. I've heard explanations as to why, but they made so
little sense that I can't remember them.
Hollywood is, IMHO, on another planet, and they don't speak Earth.
Erik V. Olson
Can we give him a 67 Telecaster Standard and a 69 Fender Deluxe Reverb Amp,
so he can play his own theme song as well?
--
Erik V. Olson: er...@mo.net : http://walden.mo.net/~eriko/
Erik V. Olson
>
>That it's _public_ is part of the essence of the author-agent
>relationship; it provides the author with someone separate to whom
>business dealings can be referred, and thus creates for the author a
>zone of privacy around their everyday life.
>
I'd never thought of that. I thought authors, like athletes, had agents
because knowing how to write (or hit a curveball) doesn't mean you know how
to negotiate contracts or find markets.
Joel Rosenberg
> On 23 Dec 2000 16:27:04 GMT, P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> >That it's _public_ is part of the essence of the author-agent
> >relationship; it provides the author with someone separate to whom
> >business dealings can be referred, and thus creates for the author a
> >zone of privacy around their everyday life.
> >
>
> I'd never thought of that. I thought authors, like athletes, had agents
> because knowing how to write (or hit a curveball) doesn't mean you know how
> to negotiate contracts or find markets.
>
Many people do things for multiple reasons. Having had a good
relationship with just about every editor I've had, I attribute part
of it to leaving the fighting over the size of the pie stuff to
another party.
P Nielsen Hayden
Erik V. Olson <er...@physiciansedge.com> wrote:
>On 23 Dec 2000 16:27:04 GMT, P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>That it's _public_ is part of the essence of the author-agent
>>relationship; it provides the author with someone separate to whom
>>business dealings can be referred, and thus creates for the author a
>>zone of privacy around their everyday life.
>>
>
>I'd never thought of that. I thought authors, like athletes, had agents
>because knowing how to write (or hit a curveball) doesn't mean you know how
>to negotiate contracts or find markets.
Of course. That's why I said "part of the essence."
Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr
writes:
>
>That said, I've heard -- over and over again -- that in Hollywood, who
>one's agent is something that many (most? I dunno) writers don't want
>bruited about. I've heard explanations as to why, but they made so
>little sense that I can't remember them.
>
>Hollywood is, IMHO, on another planet, and they don't speak Earth.
I've never heard this. I don't claim any special knowledge about this -
my time in the movie/tv industry was spent in computer programming, and
I dealt with finance people, not writers - but it really doesn't make
any sense.
(With the tendency of agents to move into packaging - CAA puts together a
script and stars and a director and shops the project to studios - it
became very important who your agent was, since you were likelier to get in
a package, and get your script sold, if your agent was one of the
packagers. There was a big public kerfuffle when Joe Eszterhas left CAA;
Mike Ovitz got really mad at him.)
-- Alan
===============================================================================
Alan Winston --- WIN...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056
Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210
===============================================================================
Joel Rosenberg
> In article <wk1yuzj...@winternet.com>, Joel Rosenberg <jo...@winternet.com>
> writes:
>
> >
> >That said, I've heard -- over and over again -- that in Hollywood, who
> >one's agent is something that many (most? I dunno) writers don't want
> >bruited about. I've heard explanations as to why, but they made so
> >little sense that I can't remember them.
> >
> >Hollywood is, IMHO, on another planet, and they don't speak Earth.
>
> I've never heard this. I don't claim any special knowledge about this -
> my time in the movie/tv industry was spent in computer programming, and
> I dealt with finance people, not writers - but it really doesn't make
> any sense.
I agree that it doesn't make sense, but I've had the experience when
talking with at least half a dozen (relatively small-time, in terms of
commercial success, if not necessarily talent) H'wood writers.
Kip Williams
> I wasn't aware that "words" were "quasi-emoticons."
An emoticon is worth a dozen words.
--
--Kip (Williams)
amusing the world at http://members.home.net/kipw/
Ray Radlein
>
> That's a good reason such a book would have limitations on its
> usefulness. But the idea that author-agent relationships are a
> big secret is just silly. If your agent's relationship to you
> is a secret, you need a new agent.
Maybe she likes having a Secret Agent Man.
- Ray R.
--
**********************************************************************
"Monday, May 7. The weather was warm. I was working the day watch
out of Robbery-Homicide with my partner, Frank Gannon. The Boss
had just complimented me, and my nipples crinkled with delight."
-- Robert A. Heinlein's "Dragnet"
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
**********************************************************************
Bob Webber
> > I wasn't aware that "words" were "quasi-emoticons."
> An emoticon is worth a dozen words.
:-) when you say that, podnuh!
--
Corflu 18 -- The Original Fanzine Fans' Convention -- Boston, Massachusetts
30 March to 1 April 2001 -- <http://world.std.com/~webber/Corflu18>
Patrick Connors
Patrick Connors
Sure, if you want to. But if I have to play it -soon-, there's a too-large
number of mandolins of varying shapes, sizes and tunings in the next room.
Loren MacGregor
>
> Ed Dravecky III <e...@panix.com> wrote:
> : Patrick Connors <p...@primenet.com> wrote:
> : > P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
> : > : It sounds plausible, but think about it: what on earth is the
> : > : _use of a secret_ author-agent relationship? No, I'm not
> : > : asking for rasff to come up with a bunch of imaginatively
> : > : tortured answers. I'm talking about the real world here.
> : >
> : > Phooey. You're no fun.
> : > And I feel obligated as a punster to point out that Ian Fleming
> : > obviously had an author-secret agent relationship with James Bond.
>
> : Bad Patrick! I'm giving you a number and taking away your name.
>
> I get a new number the 26th. Forty.
Infink.
-- LJM
T Nielsen Hayden
> Irv Koch <irv...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
>>There's even one guy who specializes in being the "default" agent for
>>long dead authors with no other obvious representative (or something
>>similar to such case). Forest J. Ackerman.
>
>
><strangled sound>
Funny, I made exactly the same noise when I read that. Wish I'd been reading
this thread earlier.
-tnh
T Nielsen Hayden
Eric Mayer <emay...@epix.net> wrote:
>On 21 Dec 2000 21:46:13 GMT, p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden) wrote:
>
>>I've never heard of such a reference book. If you want to know who
>>represents an author, ask that author. If you want to know who an agent
>>represents, ask the agent. Neither party generally has much interest in
>>concealing this information.
>>
> I've never heard of such a book either but I must say I'm amazed that
>Writer's Digest doesn't have such a thing -- years ago a section of one of
>their publications listed a bunch of so-called agents.
That's an accurate description of many of the entrepreneurs who advertise
their services in Writer's Digest.
>I suspect legitimate agents tend to be overwhelmed by prospective clients
>and don't even want that kind of publicity. I only mention this because
>the idea of a book like that reminds me of the sad thought I often have --
>that there seems to be more money to be made ripping off would-be writers
>than there is in actually writing.
For many people that is quite true. Moreover, the Internet and the Web have
provided a perfect environment for the proliferation of literary scammers. I
know a fair amount about this because I sometimes run with an informal group
of SFWA scamhunters. The best single information source I know of on matters
like getting an agent, avoiding ripoffs, manuscript submission formats, etc.
etc. etc., is the SFWA website at <http://www.sfwa.org/>. One of its most
useful features is its link to the "Writer Beware" website, run by the very
excellent Victoria Strauss. Writers could do far worse than to go there and
read =everything=.
By the way, when we're scamhunting, we pretty much take it as =prima facie=
evidence that we're dealing with a scammer if an agent claims his or her
client list is confidential. Acting as an author's public representative is
one of the core functions of agenting. It's possible to be the agent for a
pseudonymous author, but you're still the public representative of that
pseudonym. There's neither reason nor excuse for an agent to keep their
client list secret. Real agents will give you their list at the drop of a
hat.
I've explained this one online before. Let me see if I can remember my
standard examples for why confidential agent relationships are an absurd
concept:
"You want to make a movie from a novel we published? Great! Sorry, I can't
tell you who the author's agent is -- that's confidential."
"Hiya, I'm Stephen King's new agent. I know, you thought it was Ralph
Vicinanza. It's me now. No, I can't show you an agenting agreement -- that's
confidential. Now, about those checks that'll be coming to me ..."
"Tell Sylvia down in Accounting that I'm sorry she can't mail out royalty
checks, but I can't give her names or addresses for those agents -- it's
confidential information."
I trust you can see the problem. And by the way, and apropos of =absolutely
nothing= that's been said in this thread, there's no such thing as a
"default agent" for old authors.
-tnh
Mitch Wagner
<slrn94lp2...@panix2.panix.com>:
Sounds to me like there's a story here.
--
Mitch Wagner
Mitch Wagner
>By the way, when we're scamhunting, we pretty much take it as =prima
>facie= evidence that we're dealing with a scammer if an agent claims his
>or her client list is confidential.
I'm told that you can also take it as pretty much prima facie evidence of a
scam if someone demands money FROM the writer. Money flows only one way, TO
the writer. Not very much, and not very often for most writers, but that's
the way it flows.
>"Tell Sylvia down in Accounting that I'm sorry she can't mail out
>royalty checks, but I can't give her names or addresses for those agents
>-- it's confidential information."
>
Tor has someone named Sylvia in the Accounting Department? I didn't think
there was anybody named Sylvia under age 80.
>I trust you can see the problem. And by the way, and apropos of
>=absolutely nothing= that's been said in this thread, there's no such
>thing as a "default agent" for old authors.
Sounds like there's a story there.
--
Mitch Wagner
James Nicoll
Mitch Wagner <mit...@sff.net> wrote:
>t...@panix.com (T Nielsen Hayden) wrote in
><slrn94lrn...@panix2.panix.com>:
>
>>By the way, when we're scamhunting, we pretty much take it as =prima
>>facie= evidence that we're dealing with a scammer if an agent claims his
>>or her client list is confidential.
>
>I'm told that you can also take it as pretty much prima facie evidence of a
>scam if someone demands money FROM the writer. Money flows only one way, TO
>the writer. Not very much, and not very often for most writers, but that's
>the way it flows.
>
>>"Tell Sylvia down in Accounting that I'm sorry she can't mail out
>>royalty checks, but I can't give her names or addresses for those agents
>>-- it's confidential information."
>>
>
>Tor has someone named Sylvia in the Accounting Department? I didn't think
>there was anybody named Sylvia under age 80.
>
how old she is, I think.
Marcus L. Rowland
<t...@panix.com> writes
>
>I trust you can see the problem. And by the way, and apropos of =absolutely
>nothing= that's been said in this thread, there's no such thing as a
>"default agent" for old authors.
I wish there was...
The stuff I use is generally just out of copyright, and in a couple of
cases I've run into problems where I couldn't determine categorically
that the author was safely 70 years dead, or where stuff went back into
copyright when European copyright changed from 50 to 70 years. It'd be
great if I could contact a "default agent" who could check his books and
see if he represented such authors, or put me in touch with the real
copyright holder if such exists.
Artists too - for example, my next project is going to be based on E.
Nesbit's fantasy, and while she is safely out of copyright, her artist
isn't. His name was H.R. Millar, he illustrated most of the children's
fiction published in the Strand Magazine (and I think several others)
over at least 15 years, and his work is absolutely gorgeous. But he died
in 1940, and there seems to be no way to contact his heirs. So I'm
currently scouring dozens of old magazines for illustrations I can adapt
to the "Psammead" novels and several short stories, and there is no way
they'll be anything like as good as his work...
--
Marcus L. Rowland
Forgotten Futures - The Scientific Romance Role Playing Game
http://www.ffutures.demon.co.uk/ http://www.forgottenfutures.com/
"We are all victims of this slime. They... ...fill our mailboxes with gibberish
that would get them indicted if people had time to press charges"
[Hunter S. Thompson predicts junk e-mail, 1985 (from Generation of Swine)]
Irv Koch
> know a fair amount about this because I sometimes run with an informal group
> of SFWA scamhunters. The best single information source I know of on matters
> like getting an agent, avoiding ripoffs, manuscript submission formats, etc.
> etc. etc., is the SFWA website at <http://www.sfwa.org/>. One of its most
> useful features is its link to the "Writer Beware" website, run by the very
> excellent Victoria Strauss. Writers could do far worse than to go there and
> read =everything=.
(/Humor on) It's starting to look like the scam artists should demand
EXTRA, hazarous duty, pay when attempting to prey on SF&F authors or
their friends. It's like thinking you're going to feed on a swarm of
guppies and they turn out to be pirhana.
Happy hunting. <G>
Irv Koch
Yes, yes ("humor NOT on"). I have been informed, and also seen at least
one post, here, after mine, that explained, accurately, that actually
dealing with ANY such "default" agent, might produce monstrous horror
stories not fit for publication.
Joel Rosenberg
It might. But, while I can't see any possible legal justification for
it, it does seem to serve to get stories into print that would
otherwise likely languish out of print until copyright expired. It's
the sort of small-town type of arrangement that would probably work,
in practice, just fine until somebody feels ripped off, and then have
dramatic repercussions.
(Which, of course, may already have happened without me being aware of
it. I've got okays to use the stories that I want for anthology that
I keep trying to peddle -- "Science Fiction By a Bunch of Guys Named
Dave" -- despite the lack of interest among publishers, who, alas,
don't see the title as a pretty likely ticket onto the Letterman show,
and fairly good cheap publicity.)
Del Cotter
Mitch Wagner <mit...@sff.net> wrote:
>t...@panix.com (T Nielsen Hayden) wrote in
>>P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>There's even one guy who specializes in being the "default" agent for
>>>>long dead authors with no other obvious representative (or something
>>>>similar to such case). Forest J. Ackerman.
>>>
>>><strangled sound>
>>
>>Funny, I made exactly the same noise when I read that. Wish I'd been
>>reading this thread earlier.
>
>Sounds to me like there's a story here.
"The Invisible Strangler Is Loose In The Nielsen Hayden's Flat"
--
. . . . Del Cotter d...@branta.demon.co.uk . . . .
JustRead:enBaxterSilverhair:KSRobinsonTheGoldCoast:IainMBanksLookToWindward:
ToRead:DorothyDunnettQueen'sPlay:DodieSmithICaptureTheCastle:JackWomackAmbie
Kip Williams
>
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, in rec.arts.sf.fandom,
> Mitch Wagner <mit...@sff.net> wrote:
>
> >t...@panix.com (T Nielsen Hayden) wrote in
> >>P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
> >>>>There's even one guy who specializes in being the "default" agent for
> >>>>long dead authors with no other obvious representative (or something
> >>>>similar to such case). Forest J. Ackerman.
> >>>
> >>><strangled sound>
> >>
> >>Funny, I made exactly the same noise when I read that. Wish I'd been
> >>reading this thread earlier.
> >
> >Sounds to me like there's a story here.
>
> "The Invisible Strangler Is Loose In The Nielsen Hayden's Flat"
"Ack!"
"Extry! Acker Man Claims Another Victim!"
Marilee J. Layman
>Tor has someone named Sylvia in the Accounting Department? I didn't think
>there was anybody named Sylvia under age 80.
I have two friends named Sylvia who are in their mid-thirties. Also a
Sylvie, same general age.
--
Marilee J. Layman The Other*Worlds*Cafe
HOSTE...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group.
AOL Keyword: OWC http://www.webmoose.com/owc
Vicki Rosenzweig
>t...@panix.com (T Nielsen Hayden) wrote in
><slrn94lrn...@panix2.panix.com>:
>
>
>>"Tell Sylvia down in Accounting that I'm sorry she can't mail out
>>royalty checks, but I can't give her names or addresses for those agents
>>-- it's confidential information."
>>
>
>Tor has someone named Sylvia in the Accounting Department? I didn't think
>there was anybody named Sylvia under age 80.
>
ACM has somebody named Sylvia in the Accounting Department. I'd be
surprised if she was older than 40.
--
Vicki Rosenzweig | v...@redbird.org
r.a.sf.f faq at http://www.redbird.org/rassef-faq.html
P Nielsen Hayden
Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>On 28 Dec 2000 17:07:53 GMT, mit...@sff.net (Mitch Wagner) wrote:
>
>>Tor has someone named Sylvia in the Accounting Department? I didn't think
>>there was anybody named Sylvia under age 80.
>
>I have two friends named Sylvia who are in their mid-thirties. Also a
>Sylvie, same general age.
Who is Sylvia? What is she?
gfa...@savvy.com
Mitch Wagner <mit...@sff.net> wrote:
[. . .]
>>Funny, I made exactly the same noise when I read that. Wish I'd been
>>reading this thread earlier.
> Sounds to me like there's a story here.
I'm not working under the same professional constraints here, and I've
written about Forry Ackerman as a leech, and his disrespectable aspects, in
this newsgroup, several times, though it's been a while.
Forry deserves respect for various things, and doesn't deserve respect over
various others.
--
Gary Farber New York
gfa...@savvy.com
Kip Williams
>
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:50:37 -0500,
> Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
> >On 28 Dec 2000 17:07:53 GMT, mit...@sff.net (Mitch Wagner) wrote:
> >
> >>Tor has someone named Sylvia in the Accounting Department? I didn't think
> >>there was anybody named Sylvia under age 80.
> >
> >I have two friends named Sylvia who are in their mid-thirties. Also a
> >Sylvie, same general age.
>
> Who is Sylvia? What is she?
"Helen is a beauty, the fairest in the land;
Maid Marian's a groupie with the Robin Hood Band;
Godiva is a lady, as anyone can see.
But who is Silvia, what is she?
"Joanie is a martyr, and Lizzie is a Queen;
And Jezebel's a no-no, if you know what I mean;
Priscilla is a pilgrim; and Daphne is a tree.
But who is Silvia, what is she?"
(from PDQ Bach's setting of "Who is Silvia?")
One last note: we had a teenager named Sylvia at my office for a
while.
"Who is Silvia?" "Who, ME?"
"Who is Silvia?" "Yeah, THEE!"
"Who is Silvia, what is she
gonna say when she sees me?"
(ibid, again)
Dave Weingart
>>>Tor has someone named Sylvia in the Accounting Department? I didn't think
>>>there was anybody named Sylvia under age 80.
>>
>>I have two friends named Sylvia who are in their mid-thirties. Also a
>>Sylvie, same general age.
>
>
>Who is Sylvia? What is she?
There's cute-as-a-button Sylvia I know who's just about 9.
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK Consonance 2001! Urban Tapestry!
mailto:phyd...@liii.com Mike Stein! Oh, yeah, and some guy
http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux named Dave Wein-something-or-other.
ICQ 57055207 http://www.consonance.org
T Nielsen Hayden
>Irv Koch <irv...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> writes:
>
>> T Nielsen Hayden wrote:
>> >
>> > On 22 Dec 2000 04:35:20 GMT,
>> > P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
>> > >On Fri, 22 Dec 2000 03:50:33 GMT,
>> > > Irv Koch <irv...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>There's even one guy who specializes in being the "default" agent for
>> > >>long dead authors with no other obvious representative (or something
>> > >
>> > ><strangled sound>
>> >
>> > Funny, I made exactly the same noise when I read that. Wish I'd been
>> > reading this thread earlier.
>>
>> Yes, yes ("humor NOT on"). I have been informed, and also seen at least
>> one post, here, after mine, that explained, accurately, that actually
>> dealing with ANY such "default" agent, might produce monstrous horror
>> stories not fit for publication.
>
>It might. But, while I can't see any possible legal justification for
>it, it does seem to serve to get stories into print that would
>otherwise likely languish out of print until copyright expired. It's
>the sort of small-town type of arrangement that would probably work,
>in practice, just fine until somebody feels ripped off, and then have
>dramatic repercussions.
Nope. Sorry. It doesn't do a thing to get stories into print. This one
starts when the story's already been printed. Let's talk about this as a
generic scam, and not attach any names to it. Much tidier that way.
If you're the scammer, what you do is wait until a reprint anthology uses an
old story by an old-timer who's either dead or has fallen off the map. You
then fax a note to the publisher in which you claim that you were the agent
for that work or that author, and ask that checks be routed through you so
you can take your agent's cut and pass the remainder on to the author or
estate. Do you actually pass on the remainder? Good question. (Since you
never know who's lurking, and we don't want to get a flood of would-be
scammers claiming to be agents, let me add that there are several ways to
catch someone who's doing this; so don't try it.)
There's a part of copyright law that says that if you, the publisher, have
in good faith made every reasonable effort to find out who holds the
copyright and get in touch with them to make an offer, you're safe. You're
not liable for damages or highway-robbery word rates the way you would be if
you'd ignored both author and copyright and printed the story anyway. So you
make your good-faith effort, and if the author or estate turns up later, you
pay them what's reasonable -- i.e., about what you paid for other comparable
stories by other comparable authors.
I'm somewhat less sure about this next bit, but it's my impression that
being stumped is not enough; making a good-faith effort includes knowing
what you're doing. If you're working in the genre, you can't get off the
hook by claiming you've never heard of the SFWA Directory.
>(Which, of course, may already have happened without me being aware of
>it. I've got okays to use the stories that I want for anthology that
>I keep trying to peddle -- "Science Fiction By a Bunch of Guys Named
>Dave" -- despite the lack of interest among publishers, who, alas,
>don't see the title as a pretty likely ticket onto the Letterman show,
>and fairly good cheap publicity.)
You just keep thinkin', Butch. That's what you're good at.
-t.
T Nielsen Hayden
>t...@panix.com (T Nielsen Hayden) wrote in
><slrn94lrn...@panix2.panix.com>:
>
>>By the way, when we're scamhunting, we pretty much take it as =prima
>>facie= evidence that we're dealing with a scammer if an agent claims his
>>or her client list is confidential.
>
>I'm told that you can also take it as pretty much prima facie evidence of a
>scam if someone demands money FROM the writer. Money flows only one way, TO
>the writer. Not very much, and not very often for most writers, but that's
>the way it flows.
Yog's Law. It's a good rule of thumb, one of the best.
There are certain specialized occasions on which some completely legitimate
agencies charge stuff to the writer. For instance, I believe that one of the
most respectable agencies in the field has a policy of charging an author
who has a separate foreign rights agent for the cost of duplicating and
mailing extra manuscript copies to be sent to that other agent.
There are two fine points involved here. The first is that those charges are
being taken out of the money the author's getting for book sales. All money
is still flowing toward the author; there's just a little less of it. The
second fine point is that while an agent's cost of doing business is
properly paid for by the agent, those extra manuscript copies have nothing
to do with their business. They're getting the copies made and mailing them
out as a courtesy to the author, their client, most likely because they're
better equipped to do it; but they ought not have to pay another agent's
cost of doing busienss.
When it's a matter of which way the money flows, you have to pause just a
moment to check the particulars. If an agency is claiming their client list
is confidential, you don't have to pause at all.
>>"Tell Sylvia down in Accounting that I'm sorry she can't mail out
>>royalty checks, but I can't give her names or addresses for those agents
>>-- it's confidential information."
>
>Tor has someone named Sylvia in the Accounting Department? I didn't think
>there was anybody named Sylvia under age 80.
There is. She was already working at Tor when I got there, but she's not old
as the hills. Far from it.
-t.
T Nielsen Hayden
Marcus L. Rowland <mrow...@ffutures.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <slrn94lrn...@panix2.panix.com>, T Nielsen Hayden
><t...@panix.com> writes
>>
>>I trust you can see the problem. And by the way, and apropos of =absolutely
>>nothing= that's been said in this thread, there's no such thing as a
>>"default agent" for old authors.
>
>
>The stuff I use is generally just out of copyright, and in a couple of
>cases I've run into problems where I couldn't determine categorically
>that the author was safely 70 years dead, or where stuff went back into
>copyright when European copyright changed from 50 to 70 years. It'd be
>great if I could contact a "default agent" who could check his books and
>see if he represented such authors, or put me in touch with the real
>copyright holder if such exists.
Don't we wish. If a real one ever exists, we'll be delighted to go through
them.
>Artists too - for example, my next project is going to be based on E.
>Nesbit's fantasy, and while she is safely out of copyright, her artist
>isn't. His name was H.R. Millar, he illustrated most of the children's
>fiction published in the Strand Magazine (and I think several others)
>over at least 15 years, and his work is absolutely gorgeous. But he died
>in 1940, and there seems to be no way to contact his heirs. So I'm
>currently scouring dozens of old magazines for illustrations I can adapt
>to the "Psammead" novels and several short stories, and there is no way
>they'll be anything like as good as his work...
Don't give up. Pay a little money and talk to a lawyer who knows copyright
law. Chris Valada's good, unless you know another copyright lawyer you'd
rather use. Don't go to a lawyer who isn't primarily into publishing law.
They get weird and fretful, and arrive at all the wrong conclusions.
-t.
T Nielsen Hayden
Don't I wish. I could tell you stories that would make you cry. There are a
lot of predators out there.
>Happy hunting. <G>
Thanks, but I'm not very active at the moment. Last time I looked, Victoria
Strauss, Brenda Clough, and Jim Macdonald were the main Eumenides, with help
from some people whose names you'd recognize.
-t.
Del Cotter
Kip Williams <ki...@home.com> wrote:
>gfa...@savvy.com wrote:
>
>> I wasn't aware that "words" were "quasi-emoticons."
<didactic> I think the previous poster might have been talking about the
practice of putting words into angle brackets to indicate mood. They're
not sentences, nor yet are they completely iconic.
>An emoticon is worth a dozen words.
:-)
But there I go, chattering on again. (don't hit me)
--
Del Cotter d...@branta.demon.co.uk
Emoticon Charades: short story, eight words, whole thing =:-
Mitch Wagner
>>Tor has someone named Sylvia in the Accounting Department? I didn't
>>think there was anybody named Sylvia under age 80.
>
>There is. She was already working at Tor when I got there, but she's not
>old as the hills. Far from it.
I dunno, "Sylvia" seems to me to be the name of some distant cousin of your
great-aunt, who wears far too much pancake, rouge and lipstick. You're 12
years old and she wants to give you a kiss on the cheek with her withered,
bird-like lips. She leans over and says, "Such an adorable boy!" and,
listening to her voice, you know that she has lived in the Bronx all her
life, and that she's chain-smoked Pall Malls for the last 60 years.
--
Mitch Wagner
Mark Atwood
>
> I dunno, "Sylvia" seems to me to be the name of some distant cousin of your
> great-aunt, who wears far too much pancake, rouge and lipstick. You're 12
> years old and she wants to give you a kiss on the cheek with her withered,
> bird-like lips. She leans over and says, "Such an adorable boy!" and,
> listening to her voice, you know that she has lived in the Bronx all her
> life, and that she's chain-smoked Pall Malls for the last 60 years.
http://www.nicolehollander.com/
--
Mark Atwood | The summit of Mount Everest is marine limestone.
m...@pobox.com |
http://www.pobox.com/~mra
Kip Williams
>
> mit...@sff.net (Mitch Wagner) writes:
> >
> > I dunno, "Sylvia" seems to me to be the name of some distant cousin of your
> > great-aunt, who wears far too much pancake, rouge and lipstick. You're 12
> > years old and she wants to give you a kiss on the cheek with her withered,
> > bird-like lips. She leans over and says, "Such an adorable boy!" and,
> > listening to her voice, you know that she has lived in the Bronx all her
> > life, and that she's chain-smoked Pall Malls for the last 60 years.
>
> http://www.nicolehollander.com/
Thanks, but I never look at anything by Hollander if I can help it.
I'd sooner read the works of Cathy Guisewite.
Marcus L. Rowland
<t...@panix.com> writes
>Chris Valada's good, unless you know another copyright lawyer you'd
>rather use. Don't go to a lawyer who isn't primarily into publishing law.
>They get weird and fretful, and arrive at all the wrong conclusions.
_European_ copyright law?
Patrick Nielsen Hayden
> In article <slrn94pjg...@panix3.panix.com>, T Nielsen Hayden
> <t...@panix.com> writes
> >Chris Valada's good, unless you know another copyright lawyer you'd
> >rather use. Don't go to a lawyer who isn't primarily into publishing law.
> >They get weird and fretful, and arrive at all the wrong conclusions.
>
> _European_ copyright law?
I think you left some words out of your question. Would you like to
try it again?
Mitch Wagner
>mit...@sff.net (Mitch Wagner) writes:
>>
>> I dunno, "Sylvia" seems to me to be the name of some distant cousin of
>> your great-aunt, who wears far too much pancake, rouge and lipstick.
>> You're 12 years old and she wants to give you a kiss on the cheek with
>> her withered, bird-like lips. She leans over and says, "Such an
>> adorable boy!" and, listening to her voice, you know that she has
>> lived in the Bronx all her life, and that she's chain-smoked Pall
>> Malls for the last 60 years.
>
>http://www.nicolehollander.com/
Intriguing. The woman in the cartoon at that URL is certainly close to the
image I think of when I think of the name "Sylvia." I can hear that Sylvia
voice saying, "Are you coming in, or what?"
--
Mitch Wagner
Kris Hasson-Jones
I usually like Sylvia. Our daily paper carries it. I always vote
for it when they have polls (like right now) on what to keep or
drop and what new comic strips to add. I love the ones where she's
in the bathtub, shouting at her daughter in the other room.
And I have just two comic strips at my desk, laminated: one is a
Tiger strip from 1994 and the other is a Sylvia, unfortunately
undated, but the opening of a series about hiring a supportive parent
on a monthly retainer.
--
Kris Hasson Jones sni...@pacifier.com
--
Kris Hasson Jones sni...@pacifier.com
Loren MacGregor
<re Methuselah's Agent>
> Nope. Sorry. It doesn't do a thing to get stories into print. This one
> starts when the story's already been printed. Let's talk about this as a
> generic scam, and not attach any names to it. Much tidier that way.
I just saw it in passing and so may not have it accurately at all,
but it -seems- there was a news item on televisoon the other evening
about someone who paraglided onto the grounds of Windsor Castle, his
stated reason being that he was desperate to get published, and he
figured the publicity might do him good.
Somehow, of all the ways of getting published (other than writing a
story and sending it in), this would not have occurred to me.
-- LJM
Rob Wynne
>I usually like Sylvia. Our daily paper carries it. I always vote
>for it when they have polls (like right now) on what to keep or
>drop and what new comic strips to add. I love the ones where she's
>in the bathtub, shouting at her daughter in the other room.
My favourites are the two cats with the signs. :)
Rob
--
Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat / d...@america.net
The best original science-fiction and fantasy on the web:
Aphelion Webzine: http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/
Gafilk 2001: Jan 5-7, 2001, Atlanta, GA -- http://www.gafilk.org
"I've often said that the difference between British and American SF TV
series is that the British ones have three-dimensional characters and
cardboard spaceships, while the Americans do it the other way around."
--Ross Smith
Marcus L. Rowland
Hayden <p...@pnh-0.dsl.speakeasy.net> writes
>> >Chris Valada's good, unless you know another copyright lawyer you'd
>> >rather use. Don't go to a lawyer who isn't primarily into publishing law.
>> >They get weird and fretful, and arrive at all the wrong conclusions.
>>
>> _European_ copyright law?
>
>
>I think you left some words out of your question. Would you like to
>try it again?
Sorry - what I thought I was saying is "is she or he an expert in
_European_ copyright law?"
Not that I can _afford_ a lawyer at present. One of the reasons why I am
planning to use copyright-expired art is that I probably can't afford to
pay for the use of a hundred-odd pictures. While it's a hassle to find
enough appropriate images I do own 40-odd volumes of magazines from 1890
to 1905, so finding alternatives to Millar isn't an insurmountable
problem.
Marcus L. Rowland
<churn...@home.com> writes
>I just saw it in passing and so may not have it accurately at all,
>but it -seems- there was a news item on televisoon the other evening
>about someone who paraglided onto the grounds of Windsor Castle, his
>stated reason being that he was desperate to get published, and he
>figured the publicity might do him good.
>
Buckingham Palace, and it was a powered paraglider of some sort. The
Royal Family weren't in residence, a police helicopter was following
about 30 ft. behind trying to talk the guy into landing (they got so
close at one point that the downdraft nearly collapsed the paraglider),
and armed soldiers grabbed him about ten seconds after his feet hit the
ground. All videoed and/or watched by about 5,000 tourists. I think he's
going to be charged with violating flight safety regulations.
Colette Reap
>I just saw it in passing and so may not have it accurately at all,
>but it -seems- there was a news item on televisoon the other evening
>about someone who paraglided onto the grounds of Windsor Castle[...]
Almost right - he landed in the forecourt of Buckingham Palace - the
bit between the front gates and the front door. He was being shadowed
by a couple of police helicopters, and there were rather a lot of
policemen waiting for him when he finally landed.
--
Colette
* "2002: A Discworld Odyssey" * http://www.dwcon.org/ *
* August 16th-19th, 2002 * Email: in...@dwcon.org *
Alison Hopkins
Marcus L. Rowland wrote in message ...
>In article <3A4D5359...@home.com>, Loren MacGregor
><churn...@home.com> writes
>>I just saw it in passing and so may not have it accurately at all,
>>but it -seems- there was a news item on televisoon the other evening
>>about someone who paraglided onto the grounds of Windsor Castle, his
>>stated reason being that he was desperate to get published, and he
>>figured the publicity might do him good.
>>
>
>Buckingham Palace, and it was a powered paraglider of some sort. The
>Royal Family weren't in residence, a police helicopter was following
>about 30 ft. behind trying to talk the guy into landing (they got so
>close at one point that the downdraft nearly collapsed the paraglider),
>and armed soldiers grabbed him about ten seconds after his feet hit the
>ground. All videoed and/or watched by about 5,000 tourists. I think he's
>going to be charged with violating flight safety regulations.
And he is, apparently, a descendant of Walter de la Mare.
Ali
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
<churn...@home.com> wrote:
>T Nielsen Hayden wrote:
>
><re Methuselah's Agent>
>
>> Nope. Sorry. It doesn't do a thing to get stories into print. This one
>> starts when the story's already been printed. Let's talk about this as a
>> generic scam, and not attach any names to it. Much tidier that way.
>
>I just saw it in passing and so may not have it accurately at all,
>but it -seems- there was a news item on televisoon the other evening
>about someone who paraglided onto the grounds of Windsor Castle, his
>stated reason being that he was desperate to get published, and he
>figured the publicity might do him good.
I just saw a title in a paper. An Australian called Brett de la Mare.
Yeah, he wanted to draw attention to his novel.
vlatko
--
New address for _Neither Fish Nor Fowl_
http://www.webart.hr/nrnm/eng/index.htm
Interviews: Jo Walton, David Langford, Ken Macleod
vlatko.ju...@zg.tel.hr
Rob Hansen
<churn...@home.com> wrote:
On the BBC news last night they mentioned the guy's nationality and
that this was a publicity stunt "for an unpublished novel". No name
given for him or the novel, so not much use on the publicity front
yet.
--
Rob Hansen
=============================================
Home Page: http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/rob/
RE-ELECT GORE IN 2004.
Kip Williams
"Is there anybody there?" said the paraglider,
Stepping onto the sunlit lawn;
And the tourists and reporters watched him
With 500 cameras humming on.
And a couple of guards brought cuffs out,
And motioned for him to be led.
And the paraglider looked past them;
"Is there someone else here?" he said...
Alison Hopkins
kcam...@cix.compulink.co.uk
> In article <slrn94pjg...@panix3.panix.com>, T Nielsen Hayden
> <t...@panix.com> writes
> >Chris Valada's good, unless you know another copyright lawyer you'd
> >rather use. Don't go to a lawyer who isn't primarily into publishing law.
> >They get weird and fretful, and arrive at all the wrong conclusions.
>
> _European_ copyright law?
If he is a *good* copyright lawyer, that is a moot question, because most of
Europe is signed up to WIPO and the laws only vary in small enough degree
that it is easy to keep track of the differences.
Kim :-)
--
KIM Campbell
Co-Convener: UK in '05
A bid for the World Science Fiction Convention
http://www.uk2005.org.uk
Mitch Wagner
<3A4D2423...@pacifier.com>:
>Mitch Wagner wrote:
>>
>> Mark Atwood <m...@pobox.com> wrote in
>> <m3snn7y...@flash.localdomain>:
>>
>> >mit...@sff.net (Mitch Wagner) writes:
>> >>
>> >> I dunno, "Sylvia" seems to me to be the name of some distant cousin
>> >> of your great-aunt, who wears far too much pancake, rouge and
>> >> lipstick. You're 12 years old and she wants to give you a kiss on
>> >> the cheek with her withered, bird-like lips. She leans over and
>> >> says, "Such an adorable boy!" and, listening to her voice, you know
>> >> that she has lived in the Bronx all her life, and that she's
>> >> chain-smoked Pall Malls for the last 60 years.
>> >
>> >http://www.nicolehollander.com/
>>
>> Intriguing. The woman in the cartoon at that URL is certainly close
>> to the image I think of when I think of the name "Sylvia." I can
>> hear that Sylvia voice saying, "Are you coming in, or what?"
>
>I usually like Sylvia. Our daily paper carries it. I always vote
>for it when they have polls (like right now) on what to keep or
>drop and what new comic strips to add. I love the ones where she's
>in the bathtub, shouting at her daughter in the other room.
It's a comic strip? That must be where I got this mental image of what a
Sylvia looks like - I must've seen that comic strip and forgotten. Christ,
and here I thought I'd made it up myself, and was congratulating myself on
how clever I was.
Next thing you know, you'll tell me that story idea I had about the crazy
guy who chases after the white whale has already been done.
--
Mitch Wagner
Ray Radlein
>
> Next thing you know, you'll tell me that story idea I had about
> the crazy guy who chases after the white whale has already been
> done.
Yeah, it was an episode of "Mannix."
- Ray R.
--
***********************************************************************
"But at my back I alwaies hear
Magneto's minions hurrying near"
- Marvell Comics, "The Mysterious Men of X"
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
***********************************************************************
Geri Sullivan
>
> In article <n7yu4EAE...@ffutures.demon.co.uk>,
> mrow...@ffutures.demon.co.uk (Marcus L. Rowland) wrote:
>
> > In article <slrn94pjg...@panix3.panix.com>, T Nielsen Hayden
> > <t...@panix.com> writes
> > >Chris Valada's good, unless you know another copyright lawyer you'd
> > >rather use. Don't go to a lawyer who isn't primarily into publishing law.
> > >They get weird and fretful, and arrive at all the wrong conclusions.
> >
> > _European_ copyright law?
>
> If he is a *good* copyright lawyer, that is a moot question, because most of
> Europe is signed up to WIPO and the laws only vary in small enough degree
> that it is easy to keep track of the differences.
That's good to know. I haven't had cause to follow Chris' legal career,
but I'm impressed by her photography. I've made a point of making time
to to look at her Pro Gallery exhibit when at Worldcons offering it.
Geri
--
Geri Sullivan g...@toad-hall.com
Marcus L. Rowland
kcam...@cix.compulink.co.uk writes
>
>
>If he is a *good* copyright lawyer, that is a moot question, because most of
>Europe is signed up to WIPO and the laws only vary in small enough degree
>that it is easy to keep track of the differences.
The crucial element of balminess in Euro copyright law is the grey area
where stuff went out of copyright after 50 years, between 1975 and 1995,
and went back into copyright when it changed to 70 years. This appears
to be such a mess that I avoid stuff from this period if at all
possible.
In the current case I'm doing reasonably well on finding older pictures
etc., so I can probably manage without the Millar illustrations; it's a
bit of a shame because everyone who knows Nesbit will expect them, but I
think what I'm doing is reasonably good, and I'm going to include links
to American sites that have his work on line so that people can see what
they're missing.
BTW, I have to illustrate 199 Persian cats on a magic carpet - I've
found a picture of an appropriate cat, but can't decide if I should
illustrate this as a 10x20 array or a pyramid with 64 cats at the base
and a few loose ones that didn't join the stack. Bearing in mind that
this is going to be a VERY small graphic, which of these (if either)
should I use?
Richard Kennaway
> found a picture of an appropriate cat, but can't decide if I should
> illustrate this as a 10x20 array or a pyramid with 64 cats at the base
> and a few loose ones that didn't join the stack. Bearing in mind that
> this is going to be a VERY small graphic, which of these (if either)
> should I use?
There's a book by Bill Tidy, I forget the title, but it's all about
drawing huge numbers of things. To draw 1000 baked beans, for example,
you can draw an opened tin with the name "Heinz" on it, with a dribble
of tomato juice down the side and three baked beans on the table. To
draw 1,000,000 books, draw someone coming out of a library with a couple
of books under their arm. I don't know if he specifically mentions 199
Persian cats, but something along those lines might solve the problem.
-- Richard Kennaway
Doug Wickstrom
<Hu52NCAq...@ffutures.demon.co.uk>
"Marcus L. Rowland" <mrow...@ffutures.demon.co.uk> excited the
ether to say:
>BTW, I have to illustrate 199 Persian cats on a magic carpet - I've
>found a picture of an appropriate cat, but can't decide if I should
>illustrate this as a 10x20 array or a pyramid with 64 cats at the base
>and a few loose ones that didn't join the stack. Bearing in mind that
>this is going to be a VERY small graphic, which of these (if either)
>should I use?
How about a large pile of multi-colored fluff with cat-like
features evident here and there?
--
Doug Wickstrom
"We are all of us rooting for truffles, but some of us are hissssing at
the stars." --Ray Radlein
Irv Koch
> The crucial element of balminess in Euro copyright law is the grey area
> where stuff went out of copyright after 50 years, between 1975 and 1995,
> and went back into copyright when it changed to 70 years. This appears
> to be such a mess that I avoid stuff from this period if at all
> possible.
If it were I, I'd cherry pick some of the best of that, if no one else
had used it. Pay for it even if not obligated to but try to get some
concession out of any findable copyright holders (like "throw in a short
intor for no extra charge"). Treat nonfindable authors the same as if
it were still in copyright.
> BTW, I have to illustrate 199 Persian cats on a magic carpet - I've
> found a picture of an appropriate cat, but can't decide if I should
> illustrate this as a 10x20 array or a pyramid with 64 cats at the base
> and a few loose ones that didn't join the stack. Bearing in mind that
> this is going to be a VERY small graphic, which of these (if either)
> should I use?
Contrive to get a few loose cats if possible.
Meow.
Marcus L. Rowland
<nims...@uswest.not> writes
>How about a large pile of multi-colored fluff with cat-like
>features evident here and there?
Yes, this sounds like the best answer. Many thanks,
Del Cotter
>Kip Williams <ki...@home.com> wrote:
>>An emoticon is worth a dozen words.
>
>Emoticon Charades: short story, eight words, whole thing =:-
Anybody got this one yet?
--
. . . . Del Cotter d...@branta.demon.co.uk . . . .
JustRead:heGoldCoast:IainMBanksLookToWindward:DorothyDunnettQueen'sPlay
ToRead:DodieSmithICaptureTheCastle:StevenBrustJhereg:JackWomackAmbient:
Stevie Gamble
<d...@branta.demon.co.uk> writes:
>On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, in rec.arts.sf.fandom, I wrote:
>
>>Kip Williams <ki...@home.com> wrote:
>>>An emoticon is worth a dozen words.
>>
>>Emoticon Charades: short story, eight words, whole thing =:-
>
>Anybody got this one yet?
>
Not me:-(
Can we have a clue, please?
--
Stevie Gamble
The right to be heard does not automatically include
the right to be taken seriously.
Hubert Humphrey, 1965
Kip Williams
>
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, in rec.arts.sf.fandom, I wrote:
>
> >Kip Williams <ki...@home.com> wrote:
> >>An emoticon is worth a dozen words.
> >
> >Emoticon Charades: short story, eight words, whole thing =:-
>
> Anybody got this one yet?
Ellison, wasn't it?
Jo Walton
d...@branta.demon.co.uk "Del Cotter" writes:
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, in rec.arts.sf.fandom, I wrote:
>
> >Kip Williams <ki...@home.com> wrote:
> >>An emoticon is worth a dozen words.
> >
> >Emoticon Charades: short story, eight words, whole thing =:-
>
> Anybody got this one yet?
"I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream."
--
Jo J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk
I kissed a kif at Kefk Take the rasfw pledge
*THE KING'S PEACE* out now! From Tor Books and good bookshops everywhere.
More info, Tir Tanagiri Map & Poetry etc at http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk
Cally Soukup
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, in rec.arts.sf.fandom, I wrote:
>>Kip Williams <ki...@home.com> wrote:
>>>An emoticon is worth a dozen words.
>>
>>Emoticon Charades: short story, eight words, whole thing =:-
> Anybody got this one yet?
Looks like the Muppet Beaker, to me.
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
gfa...@savvy.com
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, in rec.arts.sf.fandom, I wrote:
>>Kip Williams <ki...@home.com> wrote:
>>>An emoticon is worth a dozen words.
>>
>>Emoticon Charades: short story, eight words, whole thing =:-
> Anybody got this one yet?
"My hair is standing on end at the latest posting from X"? Or "I am a
frowning bunny rabbit."
--
Gary Farber New York
gfa...@savvy.com
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, in rec.arts.sf.fandom, I wrote:
>
>>Kip Williams <ki...@home.com> wrote:
>>>An emoticon is worth a dozen words.
>>
>>Emoticon Charades: short story, eight words, whole thing =:-
>
>Anybody got this one yet?
I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream. Sorry, thought it was obvious.
--
Marilee J. Layman The Other*Worlds*Cafe
HOSTE...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group.
AOL Keyword: OWC http://www.webmoose.com/owc
Vicki Rosenzweig
>Del Cotter wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, in rec.arts.sf.fandom, I wrote:
>>
>> >Kip Williams <ki...@home.com> wrote:
>> >>An emoticon is worth a dozen words.
>> >
>> >Emoticon Charades: short story, eight words, whole thing =:-
>>
>> Anybody got this one yet?
>
>Ellison, wasn't it?
Oh. Yes.
--
Vicki Rosenzweig | v...@redbird.org
r.a.sf.f faq at http://www.redbird.org/rassef-faq.html
T Nielsen Hayden
>kcam...@cix.compulink.co.uk writes
>>
>>
>>If he is a *good* copyright lawyer, that is a moot question, because most of
>>Europe is signed up to WIPO and the laws only vary in small enough degree
>>that it is easy to keep track of the differences.
>
>The crucial element of balminess in Euro copyright law is the grey area
>where stuff went out of copyright after 50 years, between 1975 and 1995,
>and went back into copyright when it changed to 70 years. This appears
>to be such a mess that I avoid stuff from this period if at all
>possible.
You're not the only one avoiding that minefield, believe me. The effect is
to make it harder to publish that material and those authors.
>In the current case I'm doing reasonably well on finding older pictures
>etc., so I can probably manage without the Millar illustrations; it's a
>bit of a shame because everyone who knows Nesbit will expect them, but I
>think what I'm doing is reasonably good, and I'm going to include links
>to American sites that have his work on line so that people can see what
>they're missing.
(*ahem*)
Why don't you ask those sites about the copyright status?
>BTW, I have to illustrate 199 Persian cats on a magic carpet - I've
>found a picture of an appropriate cat, but can't decide if I should
>illustrate this as a 10x20 array or a pyramid with 64 cats at the base
>and a few loose ones that didn't join the stack. Bearing in mind that
>this is going to be a VERY small graphic, which of these (if either)
>should I use?
Whichever looks best, of course. What kind of paper are you using? Will
there be printing on the back of the page? Is there any chance this book
will someday be reprinted in a smaller format?
-t.
T Nielsen Hayden
Irv Koch <irv...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> wrote:
>"Marcus L. Rowland" wrote:
>> The crucial element of balminess in Euro copyright law is the grey area
>> where stuff went out of copyright after 50 years, between 1975 and 1995,
>> and went back into copyright when it changed to 70 years. This appears
>> to be such a mess that I avoid stuff from this period if at all
>> possible.
>
>If it were I, I'd cherry pick some of the best of that, if no one else
>had used it. Pay for it even if not obligated to but try to get some
>concession out of any findable copyright holders (like "throw in a short
>it were still in copyright.
Your first problem is loss of continuity. When something goes out of
copyright, it stops being worth someone's time and trouble to keep track of
who would have held the copyright if the copyright still existed, much less
keep keep track of their current address(es). You'll have to find out who
the copyright holders are, then find out where they are.
But suppose you've located the author's Heirs and Assigns. On to stage two.
Some of them will be charming, helpful, and a joy to work with.
With others, well, the principle here is that dealing with writers is always
colorful, but they do tend to know something about the business. In the case
of their increasingly distant relatives, there's no such guarantee. You may
wind up having to explain that reprints of old material don't commonly get
advances the size of Stephen King's. That you'd prefer not to wait to
publish until the grand-nephew's screen adaptation of the work is made into
a wildly successful movie. That you don't want to enter into a partnership
with them to make pots of money by e-publishing the work on the web. That if
Nonny and Great-Aunt Sylvia won't stop feuding long enough to sign off on
the contract, the project will go exactly nowhere. That when the
long-deceased author said Nonny's watercolors were the perfect illustrations
for the story, he was being understandably partial. That Sylvia's daughter's
second husband the lawyer doesn't understand publishing law as well as he
thinks he does, and that the Indemnity Clause doesn't do any of the alarming
things he claims. That the implicit question of which of his three ex-wives
and five children the author loved best is quite possibly the last question
on earth the publisher wants to have to consider.
But I'm probably being too colorful. Everything will probably work out just
fine.
-t.
T Nielsen Hayden
Loren MacGregor <churn...@home.com> wrote:
>T Nielsen Hayden wrote:
>
><re Methuselah's Agent>
>
>> Nope. Sorry. It doesn't do a thing to get stories into print. This one
>> starts when the story's already been printed. Let's talk about this as a
>> generic scam, and not attach any names to it. Much tidier that way.
>
>but it -seems- there was a news item on televisoon the other evening
>about someone who paraglided onto the grounds of Windsor Castle, his
>stated reason being that he was desperate to get published, and he
>figured the publicity might do him good.
>
>story and sending it in), this would not have occurred to me.
Many things writers do in their quest to get published would never have
occurred to you or me. My goal is to accept this, and not try to reconstruct
their thought processes, because every time I think about it my eyes go out
of focus and my hands become partially paralyzed. I will not start telling
stories. Not even one. No. I've got my fingers in my ears I'm going na na na
na na na ...
-t.
Loren MacGregor
> Many things writers do in their quest to get published would never have
> occurred to you or me. My goal is to accept this, and not try to reconstruct
> their thought processes, because every time I think about it my eyes go out
> of focus and my hands become partially paralyzed. I will not start telling
> stories. Not even one. No. I've got my fingers in my ears I'm going na na na
> na na na ...
Ahem. "What can you say? An old guy, sick, maybe dying, writes his
first book, and all he wants is a good review. What can you say?"
(Quoted from a letter accompanying a vanity press book received
in the stately offices of Pacific Northwest Review of Books.)
-- LJM
Marcus L. Rowland
Hayden <t...@panix.com> writes
>
>Why don't you ask those sites about the copyright status?
>
when the US laws changed stuff didn't go back into copyright.
>>BTW, I have to illustrate 199 Persian cats on a magic carpet - I've
>>found a picture of an appropriate cat, but can't decide if I should
>>illustrate this as a 10x20 array or a pyramid with 64 cats at the base
>>and a few loose ones that didn't join the stack. Bearing in mind that
>>this is going to be a VERY small graphic, which of these (if either)
>>should I use?
>
>Whichever looks best, of course. What kind of paper are you using? Will
>there be printing on the back of the page? Is there any chance this book
>will someday be reprinted in a smaller format?
In fact I've since found an illo showing a horde of cats, with a bit of
editing it was possible to put them onto a carpet.
This is going to be an e-text, HTML with small graphics, typically
300x200 or thereabouts in 16 grey scales, but colorised to give a "sepia
tinted" effect, a brown ink effect, etc.
Something better may be needed if my American publisher decides to
produce a printed version - in that case I can either redo them scanned
at 600 DPI or he can use the Millar illustrations since there's no
copyright problem in the USA. Or he could commission new art, but I
think it would be more trouble than it's worth.
Jo Walton
churn...@c1043161-a.home.com "Loren MacGregor" writes:
> Ahem. "What can you say? An old guy, sick, maybe dying, writes his
> first book, and all he wants is a good review. What can you say?"
>
> (Quoted from a letter accompanying a vanity press book received
> in the stately offices of Pacific Northwest Review of Books.)
That's a lot of characterisation for two sentences. Was the book as
memorable as the letter?
Loren Joseph MacGregor
>In article <m8e56.232354$U46.7...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
> churn...@c1043161-a.home.com "Loren MacGregor" writes:
>> Ahem. "What can you say? An old guy, sick, maybe dying, writes his
>> first book, and all he wants is a good review. What can you say?"
>>
>> (Quoted from a letter accompanying a vanity press book received
>> in the stately offices of Pacific Northwest Review of Books.)
>That's a lot of characterisation for two sentences. Was the book as
>memorable as the letter?
Exactly what I said to him: "Sorry, no."
-- LJM
Ed Dravecky III
> Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > "Loren MacGregor" writes:
> > > Ahem. "What can you say? An old guy, sick, maybe dying, writes his
> > > first book, and all he wants is a good review. What can you say?"
> > >
> > > (Quoted from a letter accompanying a vanity press book received
> > > in the stately offices of Pacific Northwest Review of Books.)
> >
> > That's a lot of characterisation for two sentences. Was the book as
> > memorable as the letter?
>
> Exactly what I said to him: "Sorry, no."
Okay, but has the guy who wrote the _letter_ written anything
else? Him (or her), I want to know more about.
--
Ed Dravecky III
ed3 at panix dot com
Mitch Wagner
<slrn95abp...@pnh-0.dsl.speakeasy.net>:
>Many things writers do in their quest to get published would never have
>occurred to you or me. My goal is to accept this, and not try to
>reconstruct their thought processes, because every time I think about it
>my eyes go out of focus and my hands become partially paralyzed. I will
>not start telling stories. Not even one. No. I've got my fingers in my
>ears I'm going na na na na na na ...
<pulling Teresa's fingers out of her ears and employing various unfair
temptations to get her to tell stories>
Based on the stories I've heard from editors, I think the things that
writers do to get published are very similar to the things that PR people
do to get reporters to write about their stories.
I get lots of gifts, which I really wish I didn't get, because it's usually
not even stuff that I want or need, and I just have to go to the trouble of
throwing it out. Last year the popular item was coffee, and so I have
several small bags of coffee beans and ground coffee in the freezer, which
will probably sit there, like, forever, because nobody in this house drinks
coffee. This coffee gets sent out in small foil-covered bags, in a box
padded with lots of confetti, and a card which says, "Perk up your database
performance with the ThunderBlaster Database Accelerator!"
I get phone calls "to make sure you received my e-mail," and "just to
follow up." I've learned the best way to get through those calls is to
emulate Silent Cal Coolidge and respond with the absolute minimum verbiage
needed.
PR PERSON: "Good morning, Mitch, how are you today?"
ME: "What's up?"
PR PERSON: <two-minute pitch about a company I'm not interested in.> "Can I
make an appointment for you for an interview? Are you interested in more
information."
ME: "No, thank you."
Note in particular that my "No thank you" is pretty flat, and includes
ABSOLUTELY NO CONVERSATIONAL HOOKS that encourage the PR person to continue
the discussion. I've learned from experience that if you say, "No, thank
you, I'm not interested in that as a story," the PR person will assume that
is an invitation to discuss why I'm not interested in that as a story, and
to discuss what might be a story for me.
I also get lots of e-mail in the form of Microsoft Word, PowerPoint, HTML
and PDF attachments. PR people don't understand that these things are
actually HARDER to read in e-mail than plain ASCII as well as being pretty
dangerous in this post-Melissa post-ILOVEYOU age.
--
Mitch Wagner