A New Generation of Poets wanted
Jesse Garon
> EZY...@prodigy.com (Derek Raugh) wrote:
> >Looking for younger poets to help start a group to share criticisms,
> >resources,etc. Prefer serious writers who explore the darker side of
> >things.
> Your take on serious writers...exploring the lighter side of things seems
> much more difficult in my experience (uh oh, guess i'm not the new
> generation!) than exploring the darker side.
> Anyone can summon up a few rants against the system and their abusers and
> taxes...but who can write a really good (read serious) poem about
> something nice?
Have you ever read my garontological sonnet "Pretty Boy Blowjob"?
It was much better than another poem that somebody wrote about blowjobs,
a poem so ineffective one wondered if its author had ever given head in
her life. My poem was so vivid that people were accusing me of violating
the Mann Act, or something much like it...
Or perhaps you have read my tribute to Quentin Tarentino, or my long
cycle of terza rima on the topic of what a wonderful thing it is to be
me, one of the finest poets of his day. Certain tired old men can wait
until the cows come home, but they will never be as clever as me.
> (I guess I'm not what you had in mind for your New Generation. Did I
> miss my chance then? Am I a part of the Old Generation that I never
> quite made a splash in? sigh. i think you just sent me down the slippery
> slope. who's sorry now?)
Allusions to Connie Francis are to the good, as is not being part of a
new generation of anything. I am no part of some goddam new generation
of poets -- I am a school of poetry unto myself!
__________________
http://www.primenet.com/~grifter
I am the God damnedest mass of tact known to the human race
BEATRICE -- MAXIMUM CINEMA -- INTERNATIONAL POP OVERTHROW
U++++ W++++ M C CD+++ N++++ F+++
PLNelson
> deb <kil...@acad.stedwards.edu> wrote:
>> EZY...@prodigy.com (Derek Raugh) wrote:
>> >Looking for younger poets to help start a group to share criticisms,
>> >resources,etc. Prefer serious writers who explore the darker side of
>> >things.
>> Your take on serious writers...exploring the lighter side of things seems
>> much more difficult in my experience (uh oh, guess i'm not the new
>> generation!) than exploring the darker side.
>> Anyone can summon up a few rants against the system and their abusers and
>> taxes...but who can write a really good (read serious) poem about
>> something nice?
Oops, you barked up the wrong tree and found none other than 'Jesse Garon' aka
Ron Hogan aka 'The Grroaner'. Sorry, your request sounded seriously
well-informed, but I'm afraid it's about to be dragged through some blowhard
muck (GRROAN!)
>Have you ever read my garontological sonnet "Pretty Boy Blowjob"?
>It was much better than another poem that somebody wrote about blowjobs,
>a poem so ineffective one wondered if its author had ever given head in
>her life. My poem was so vivid that people were accusing me of violating
>the Mann Act, or something much like it...
Yup, I read it, and to call a ten-lined tetrameter ditty a sonnet really isn't
worth the time it would take (again) to refute, so I won't. I'll only suggest
that no one bother reading it. It said nothing, and it said it poorly, albeit
with 'vivid' lack of poetic acumen.
>Or perhaps you have read my tribute to Quentin Tarentino, or my long
>cycle of terza rima on the topic of what a wonderful thing it is to be
>me, one of the finest poets of his day. Certain tired old men can wait
>until the cows come home, but they will never be as clever as me.
I prefer the cleverness of tired old cows, frankly. They have 'mooooore' to
say than 'JG' aka Hogan has managed to date. :)
> I am no part of some goddam new generation
>of poets -- I am a school of poetry unto myself!
You're not part of "any" generation of poets, Grroaner, because you don't
write *poetry* (at least you've never exhibited any effort toward such in this
forum that I can recall). And, if you would be so kind as to spell out the
name of your 'school' I'm certain it would be (at least) good for a laugh or
two, especially for those of us who've studied your futilities. :)
A vacant caboose attached to the rear of an empty train doesn't count for
much, after all. (That's what's called a METAPHOR, Hogan. Look it up when
you get the chance).
<Grroaner's sig deleted once again by popular demand"
--PLN
PS: My huimble apologies to all serious rap contributors for not being able
to desist in responding to silliness. I've tried to behave, but sometimes it
gets difficult!
Critter
==========PLNelson, 6/26/95==========
>> I am no part of some goddam new generation
>>of poets -- I am a school of poetry unto myself!
>
>PS: My huimble apologies to all serious rap contributors for not being able
>to desist in responding to silliness. I've tried to behave, but sometimes it
>gets difficult!
---
This is coming from someone who is completely ignorant of
Jesse Garon and the mystic behind the man, myself that is. I was curious to
know what genius Jesse held when I read what he said above,
the school of poetry unto himself.. woah, pretty impressive.
Then when I scanned though his homepage I found many
more ways he described himself, the Golden Boy of the Usenet,
and he even has an alt.culture in his honor.. not to mention
he considers himself to be a beat poet.. now, there is where I
point my ears into the air and start to filter out the bullshit.
The beats are my primary study in literature, and while I am no
form of virtuoso on the subject, I do recognize the style of
a beat writer, while there are many facets to the beat generation,
I can't seem to find any link to Mr. Garon's work. In other words,
I believe my bullshit moniter picked something up.
I'm glad someone helped me clarify my suppositions; I wasn't
exactly sure how to go about commenting on his transulation
of the Tao on his homepage... hmmm... I believe my comment
would be Yuck! Where did you study the Tao, or if you have
a personal interest in it, are you an uneducated moron? I don't
mean to be so brutal, but that transulation is awful! I do some
generational transulations myself, focusing on a poem and
transulating it into modern times. I've found examples of this
where someone transulated Chicago.. I loved that! I've
done Ginsburg's America and a rough attempt at Howl (though
not a good as America '95) and I'm working on Rimbaud's
Season in Hell... but as for the Tao.. I'm afraid you failed in
the transulation. After reading that, I'm afraid to read anything
else you've written. I wouldn't go so far as to say you're not
a poet. That all depends on your opinion. I believe you are
a poet, just not as talented as you make yourself out to be.
My advise, cut back on the egoism, it makes for a very stale
read.
...Critter
Karl Geiger
Critter <Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM> wrote:
>I'm glad someone helped me clarify my suppositions; I wasn't
>exactly sure how to go about commenting on his transulation
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Interesting word. Didn't know this was, really, but you've used it so
many times in the remainder of the paragraph I have to discount mere
misspelling. From L. "trans" (through) + L. "ululare" (to howl)
doubtless. Well, lacking an OED here (! shocking, I know), I'll take
your word for it. Unless, of course, you mean "transulation" (trans +
sulu) to become Mr. Sulu-like. Des ka?
Thanks for any clarification you may render.
:Karl
Jesse Garon
Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM (RITTEC) wrote:
I said:
> >> I am no part of some goddam new generation
> >>of poets -- I am a school of poetry unto myself!
> This is coming from someone who is completely ignorant of
> Jesse Garon and the mystic behind the man, myself that is. I was curious to
> know what genius Jesse held when I read what he said above,
> the school of poetry unto himself.. woah, pretty impressive.
It is, isn't it? Made you stop and look, I bet. When was the last
time ya stopped and looked at anything Perry wrote, unless he had
some of my original text in his followup?
> Then when I scanned though his homepage I found many
> more ways he described himself, the Golden Boy of the Usenet,
> and he even has an alt.culture in his honor... not to mention
> he considers himself to be a beat poet... now, there is where I
> point my ears into the air and start to filter out the bullshit.
Obviously, you didn't filter it out enough, pink boy, because you
have read my home page incorrectly. The passage you cite is thus:
[Here's what some people have said about me:
Golden Boy of the Usenet
the provocative boytoy that reads Adorno
hostile beat poet and a master of the espresso Tao ]
So you see, these are all viewpoints that are held by my enormous
readership, one which I would wager is significantly grander than
your own, Mr. Chris Ritter of Dayton, Ohio. I noticed YOU have no
newsgroup of your own, awarded to you by the USENET, to recognize
the majesty of your text.
> The beats are my primary study in literature, and while I am no
> form of virtuoso on the subject, I do recognize the style of
> a beat writer, while there are many facets to the beat generation,
> I can't seem to find any link to Mr. Garon's work. In other words,
> I believe my bullshit moniter picked something up.
Yes, it picked up on the fact that you can't read, as shown above
in the previous paragraph. I am no goddamn beat poet, and I would
not want to be a goddamn beat poet if you paid me. Beat poetry is
dead, and its corpse stinks to high heaven. You can take the beat
poetry you love so much and throw it in the gutter. My work, such
as it is, has nothing in common with those losers. Allen Ginsberg
could kiss my pretty pink ass, except that the old hophead would,
in all likelihood, get off on it.
> I'm glad someone helped me clarify my suppositions; I wasn't
> exactly sure how to go about commenting on his transulation
> of the Tao on his homepage... hmmm... I believe my comment
> would be Yuck!
Since I have no idea what a "transulation" is, I am not sure that
I can address your comments properly.
> Where did you study the Tao, or if you have
> a personal interest in it, are you an uneducated moron? I don't
> mean to be so brutal, but that transulation is awful!
Again, what's a "transulation"? I have never heard of such stuff.
It sounds very impressive, when it doesn't make you sound like an
uneducated moron.
Where did I study the Tao? You might just as well ask where I did
NOT study the Tao. In fact, that would be a better question.
> I do some
> generational transulations myself, focusing on a poem and
> transulating it into modern times. I've found examples of this
> where someone transulated Chicago.. I loved that!
I'm sure you did. Your point is what?
> I've
> done Ginsburg's America and a rough attempt at Howl (though
> not a good as America '95) and I'm working on Rimbaud's
> Season in Hell... but as for the Tao.. I'm afraid you failed in
> the transulation.
Since I wasn't "transulating" it, I'm quite sure I did.
> After reading that, I'm afraid to read anything
> else you've written.
You ought to be. Be very afraid.
I don't think you're smart enough to read my web pages. Please
refrain from doing so until you can prove that you're ready.
> I wouldn't go so far as to say you're not
> a poet. That all depends on your opinion. I believe you are
> a poet, just not as talented as you make yourself out to be.
> My advise, cut back on the egoism, it makes for a very stale
> read.
My adviCe is that you stop trying to lecture your betters.
Tjames Madison
: while there are many facets to the beat generation,
: I can't seem to find any link to Mr. Garon's work. In other words,
: I believe my bullshit moniter picked something up.
Chris Ritter has been perverted by language.
"Jesse Garon" embodies beat because beat embodies "Jesse Garon". Unlike
your standard issue, beret-wearing, capuccino-sipping, finger-snapping
chucklehead in a cafe, "Jesse Garon" juggles words at the expense of
appearing to be seen doing so; he's completely invisible to your eyes
because he just poured motor oil over your head, du-beat-io.
: I'm glad someone helped me clarify my suppositions; I wasn't
: exactly sure how to go about commenting on his transulation
: of the Tao on his homepage... hmmm... I believe my comment
: would be Yuck!
Now there's a scholarly observation.
: Where did you study the Tao, or if you have
: a personal interest in it, are you an uneducated moron? I don't
: mean to be so brutal, but that transulation is awful!
"Garon" does the Tao like Donald Barthelme does "Snow White"; the Tao
itself is just a framework for his personality to build upon. If you don't
like who "Jesse Garon" is, you probably won't like the way he puts words
together, but simply calling him an "uneducated moron" does nothing for your
argument.
: That all depends on your opinion. I believe you are
: a poet, just not as talented as you make yourself out to be.
: My advise, cut back on the egoism, it makes for a very stale
: read.
Ah, but beyond his tremendous ego, there is so very little that "Jesse"
chooses to reveal that further comment is impossible. This is not to say
that any criticism of "Jesse Garon" is invalid, but that one *not* based on
deconstruction of his ego and public persona would be so far removed from
the target as to be utterly useless in a serious sense.
With "Garon", what you see is what you get - he's not hiding anything,
and he wants you to prove him wrong. Tell him he has a big head and he
just laughs at you.
After all, Godzilla knows he's massive. Tell him something he doesn't know.
--
"like a rolling steel keg rolling on concrete" - Doctor Murdock
r o r - a l u c a r d
Visit the LUCKY AND WILD homepage! Coming soon to a cineplex near you!
http://www.arlington.com/~tjames/tjames.html
Jesse Garon
> Critter <Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM> wrote:
> >That all depends on your opinion. I believe you are
> >a poet, just not as talented as you make yourself out to be.
> >My advise, cut back on the egoism, it makes for a very stale
> >read.
> now now everybody's got an angle - what's yours, petit etudiant? what's
> yer voice, who's yer muse? what do you say when you look in the mirror?
> 1. marek-like voice - "you're an ASSHOLE"
> 2. garon-like voice - "i admire you oh brilliant one"
Actually, I tend to say, "Lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're
perfect in every way." I can't wait to look in the mirror, cause I
get better looking each day.
> 3. deb-like voice - "put out that ceegar, get off yer fat ass and get to
> work! (oh witty one)"
You smoke cigars? Remind me to add this to the list of talents that
I've been compiling on you...
David Futrelle
writes:
>A vacant caboose attached to the rear of an empty train doesn't count for
>much, after all. (That's what's called a METAPHOR, Hogan. Look it up when
>you get the chance).
I like this, because it is almost a poem!
Now watch me as I work my magic!
Caboose
By David Futrelle
A vacant caboose
attached to the rear
of an
empty
train
doesn't count for
much,
after all
I'm going to send this one off to the Nation!! I hear they pay a dollar a
line!! If you include the title and my name, that's ten bucks!!! All for five
minutes of work!!
Poetry is GOOD to me!
--DF
.......................
davidFUTRELLE//futr...@interaccess.com
dimFLASH//the eZine that's dimFLASHY!
http://vip.turnpike.net/futrelle/
Critter
=========='Jesse Garon', 6/29/95==========
>It is, isn't it? Made you stop and look, I bet. When was the last
>time ya stopped and looked at anything Perry wrote, unless he had
>some of my original text in his followup?
-----
Actually I scan all the poet's homepages on the net for
the database I'm working on for Corduroy's. It wasn't your
ego that drew me to it...
-----
>[Here's what some people have said about me:
>
> Golden Boy of the Usenet
> the provocative boytoy that reads Adorno
> hostile beat poet and a master of the espresso Tao ]
>
>So you see, these are all viewpoints that are held by my enormous
>readership, one which I would wager is significantly grander than
>your own, Mr. Chris Ritter of Dayton, Ohio. I noticed YOU have no
>newsgroup of your own, awarded to you by the USENET, to recognize
>the majesty of your text.
-----
What the hell is this? Are you going to tell me next you have a larger
sucker than I do? Or that your mommy took you to the fair more times
that mine did? My Lord, I'm starting to feel like I'm talking to either
a 12 yr. old or a jock.. both of which resort to showing off their
trophies when they're backed into a corner. I must say Mr. Golden
Boy of the Usenet, that's quite un-Tao of you.
-----
>Yes, it picked up on the fact that you can't read, as shown above
>in the previous paragraph. I am no goddamn beat poet, and I would
>not want to be a goddamn beat poet if you paid me. Beat poetry is
>dead, and its corpse stinks to high heaven. You can take the beat
>poetry you love so much and throw it in the gutter. My work, such
>as it is, has nothing in common with those losers. Allen Ginsberg
-----
Those loosers.. hehe... I'm really loosing faith in you Mr. Provocative
Boy-toy. Ginsberg was a looser compared to you, wasn't he? (I think
I lost a kidney!)
-----
>could kiss my pretty pink ass, except that the old hophead would,
>in all likelihood, get off on it.
-----
And now he resorts to queer-bashing.
Funny... I could swear that reads "hostile beat poet" up there,
along with "master of the espresso Tao". So you were saying
I can't read what? As for my enormous readership, I don't make
a point of advertising how many people per day visit Corduroy's
because I stand on my own without the little trophies on my wall.
Not to mention, I've seen many a rotten Usenet group so saying
that doesn't impress me, nor does all those little titles. Impress
me with your art, not with what you can say you can create.
All that makes you is a mouth w/o talent which is what I'm
beginning to see.
-----
>Where did I study the Tao? You might just as well ask where I did
>NOT study the Tao. In fact, that would be a better question.
-----
Cute.
-----
>I'm sure you did. Your point is what?
-----
My point here, which you've evaded quite nicely, is that your
translation of the Tao, or whatever you were trying to
accomplish, didn't seem to live up to the power or the
content of the origional Tao. To give it to you straight,
I would say that you simply read some of the neat-o
passages, or quite possibly the entire work, and wrote
some weak interpretation of it with a limited understanding.
"Where did I NOT study the Tao?" Come on, if you felt
you were up to rewriting it you could have given me some
insight in line to today's modern man, not that crap I
read that sounded more like Marky Mark lyrics.
-----
>I don't think you're smart enough to read my web pages. Please
>refrain from doing so until you can prove that you're ready.
------
I no think me smart nuff either. One day, maybe his ego will
burst, and then I can live up to the name of Golden Boy of
the Usenet. This is trash.. come on, if you want to seriously
talk about your translation or interpertation or whatever of
the Tao I'd be more than happy to, just as long as you stop
the queer bashing and trying to tell me the Beats were trash
compared to your greatness. Hell, I think you're right. The
Beats don't have a Usenet group either, neither does
Thoreau, or W.C. Williams.. my Lord, they are all trash
compared to the greatness of Lord Jesse! Come on,
these little tennis matches of wit can continue for ages,
bring up the topic of your poetry, not your greatness.
That I'll discuss... if I'm smart nuff den.
...Krit'er
Critter
==========Tjames Madison, 6/29/95==========
>"Jesse Garon" embodies beat because beat embodies "Jesse Garon". Unlike
>your standard issue, beret-wearing, capuccino-sipping, finger-snapping
>chucklehead in a cafe, "Jesse Garon" juggles words at the expense of
>appearing to be seen doing so; he's completely invisible to your eyes
>because he just poured motor oil over your head, du-beat-io.
-----
Jesse Garon doesn't embody anything but his own damn ego. I have
read some of his work, for instance his translation or interpretation
of the Tao, and I find that it doesn't do anything but scar the
wisdom of the original text. If you have read this, I can't believe that
you are defending him! I wouldn't mind discussing it, because I don't
feel it wasn't an impressive attempt, it just failed and can be
attempted again.
-----
>After all, Godzilla knows he's massive. Tell him something he doesn't know.
-----
I am certainly not telling Jesse Garon he's massive like Godzilla. No no no
no
no no... wrong! If anything I'm telling the chameleon to quit painting
himself
like Godzilla because he's not that large. Besides (below the belt
crack coming up because I thought of it and amused myself) if I were
to sit and tell Jesse something he doesn't know, I'm afraid I'd be
here awhile. (I told you it was below the belt.)
Ooooooo, maybe we could start yet another Usenet group to his
greatness... how about:
alt.educate.Jesse-Garon
Then we could get all them queers that like to kiss pretty straight-boy
ass to fill him in on his ignorance. Ever heard of the trend called
Straight Bashing? My friends and I love to do that.. maybe we could
spend some time in alt.educate.Jesse-Garon talking about Straight
Bashing.
...Krit'er
Etelka Lehoczky
You best remember to spell his name right when you address Mr. "Garon,"
boy. I don't want to have to get mean.
----------------------------------------
Etelka Lehoczky, Glamour "Don't"
Critter
How's it going David.. just passed through your zine..
I was amused... I'm connecting to it though Corduroy's..
Just thought I'd let you know and offer a friendly holla!
...Critter
Jesse Garon
Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM (RITTEC) wrote:
> =========='Jesse Garon', 6/29/95==========
> >Yes, it picked up on the fact that you can't read, as shown above
> >in the previous paragraph. I am no goddamn beat poet, and I would
> >not want to be a goddamn beat poet if you paid me. Beat poetry is
> >dead, and its corpse stinks to high heaven. You can take the beat
> >poetry you love so much and throw it in the gutter. My work, such
> >as it is, has nothing in common with those losers. Allen Ginsberg
>
> -----
> Those loosers.. hehe... I'm really loosing faith in you Mr. Provocative
> Boy-toy. Ginsberg was a looser compared to you, wasn't he? (I think
> I lost a kidney!)
You know, when I go to the trouble to spell the word "loser" correctly
on the USENET, which is something that very few people seem to be able
to do these days, it makes you look really ignorant when you go ahead,
in your blundering fashion, and say "looser". Loser.
> -----
>
> >could kiss my pretty pink ass, except that the old hophead would,
> >in all likelihood, get off on it.
> -----
> And now he resorts to queer-bashing.
Not in the slightest. I love queers. Some of my best sex is with queers.
Allen Ginsberg, despite his queerness, is a pathetic old hophead who and
should be taken out behind the barn and shot.
Perhaps if you were more confident in your sexuality, Critter, you would
not see queerbashers lurking behind every statement. I certainly have no
problems with my own sexuality, and as a result, you can find many women
and men around the USENET who want to "do" me.
Marek Lugowski
>...I certainly have no
>problems with my own sexuality, and as a result, you can find many women
>and men around the USENET who want to "do" me.
Of course, it bears adding that they all occupy far fewer bodies human
bodies than their aggregate number. And that's including Tuesdays,
thursdays, and Saturdays... you get the picture... you connect the dots.
-- Marek
P.s. "white courtesy telephone please".
Jesse Garon
> 'Jesse Garon' <gri...@primenet.com>:
>
> >...I certainly have no
> >problems with my own sexuality, and as a result, you can find many women
> >and men around the USENET who want to "do" me.
> Of course, it bears adding that they all occupy far fewer bodies human
> bodies than their aggregate number. And that's including Tuesdays,
> thursdays, and Saturdays... you get the picture... you connect the dots.
And when I connect the dots, I see a picture of a tired old man of
diminished poetic ability, alone in his apartment, waiting for his
cows to come home, and jumping every time the phone rings.
Chuck deVarennes
Garon', gri...@primenet.com writes:
> My work, such
>as it is, has nothing in common with those losers. Allen Ginsberg
>in all likelihood, get off on it.
Your work? Wow! Mentioned in the same paragraph as Ginsberg. Do you
really have a pretty ass? Of course, that's the beauty of sightless
communication. Then again, one can express the desire to do someone
without having to really come through when it's computer fantasy, like if
I disparage Theodore Roethke then somehow my poetry is comparable? Would
that it were, or that I could make it so by insulting him.
C'mon! Do you really have a pretty ass or is it blotchy pink, rippled
and covered with pimples?
How do you know you're Ginsberg's type? Do you look like Neil Cassidy?
If Ginsberg is as you say, why bother to shoot him? Would you shopot him
yourself or get someone else to do it? Do you care which sort of firearm
to use? You know there are many different types easily purchased in
every state. Would you think it better to shoot in the head or would
you aim elsewhere? You little scamp, you wouldn't shoot his balls of
would you? O leave him die with his balls on! Of course, you don't
really think he has any balls, do you? Do you reckon that "your work,
such as it is" will ever attain the same size audience as Ginsberg's?
Do you get sweaty and chafed around your ass in the hot humid summer?
O wow! Four people of various age gender race and religion are all
trying to do me at the same time! Gotta go! Gotta think of some way to
bash Gary Snyder. Kerouac was a bed wetter or something, wasn't he?
Do you think Ginsberg could get it up for you?
OLD DREAM HAND, ATLANTA, GA.
Jesse Garon
<chuc...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> 'Jesse Garon', gri...@primenet.com writes:
> > My work, such
> >as it is, has nothing in common with those losers. Allen Ginsberg
> >could kiss my pretty pink ass, except that the old hophead would,
> >in all likelihood, get off on it.
> Your work? Wow! Mentioned in the same paragraph as Ginsberg. Do you
> really have a pretty ass?
Yeah, I do.
> Do you reckon that "your work,
> such as it is" will ever attain the same size audience as Ginsberg's?
No. But my audience will be a quality audience instead of a teeming
mass of simps and fools.
Oh, and I'd shoot him in the kneecaps, let him die slowly.
It's more fun that way.
__________________
http://www.primenet.com/~grifter
I am the God damnedest mass of tact known to the human race
BEATRICE -- MAXIMUM CINEMA -- INTERNATIONAL POP OVERTHROW
AARK/AM* U/W/N/E/Ps/R/Ka++++ CD/I/Cr+++ C M ST D*
Chuck deVarennes
Garon', gri...@primenet.com writes:
> No. But my audience will be a quality audience instead of a teeming
> mass of simps and fools.
HHMMMMMMMM. You must not know very many fans of Ginsberg.
Knowing (as I'm sure you do) that a quality audience tends to read
quality work, I have no doubt you are striving diligently to reach a
level which will allow you to produce such work.
ODH
Jesse Garon
<chuc...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > No. But my audience will be a quality audience instead of a teeming
> > mass of simps and fools.
> HHMMMMMMMM. You must not know very many fans of Ginsberg.
Simpering fools, the lot of them.
> Knowing (as I'm sure you do) that a quality audience tends to read
> quality work, I have no doubt you are striving diligently to reach a
> level which will allow you to produce such work.
Bah. I am already there. It is you who are a Philistine.
David Futrelle
Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that old A.G. is not
exactly, er, a selective type. So even if Jesse's ass is blotchy and
pimpled--and I have seen no evidence that it is--I'm sure A.G. would be more
than willing to have a go at it.
DonWild GooseChase
Jesse,
'Jesse Garon' (gri...@primenet.com) wrote:
: No. But my audience will be a quality audience instead of a teeming
: mass of simps and fools.
Unlike Ginsberg, who even today goes on stadium tours of poetry
where millions of young teens who believe in Eddie Vedder and Pearl Jam
and Kurt Cobain and MTV and who posess no individual thought crowd surf
to "Howl" and mosh to "the 'Just Say ''yes'' rag"
I'm sorry, I must have missed that.
: Oh, and I'd shoot him in the kneecaps, let him die slowly.
Chuck deVarennes
> In article <3tmppu$19...@firehose.mindspring.com> Chuck deVarennes,
> chuc...@mindspring.com writes:
> >How do you know you're Ginsberg's type?
>
> Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that old A.G. is
not
> exactly, er, a selective type. So even if Jesse's ass is blotchy and
> pimpled--and I have seen no evidence that it is--I'm sure A.G. would be
more
> than willing to have a go at it.
>
> --DF
I suppose you know AG personally. Perhaps you are well aqauinted with
someone who does. If not I would be mighty curious as to where you
derive your "understanding". I should think anyone would be sceptical of
mass media impressions.
> 'Jesse Garon' (gri...@primenet.com) wrote:
>
> : No. But my audience will be a quality audience instead of a teeming
> : mass of simps and fools.
>
> Unlike Ginsberg, who even today goes on stadium tours of poetry
> where millions of young teens who believe in Eddie Vedder and Pearl Jam
> and Kurt Cobain and MTV and who posess no individual thought crowd surf
> to "Howl" and mosh to "the 'Just Say ''yes'' rag"
I think it is a bit of a stretch to assume millions of young people
posess no individual thought. It's very well to make assertions en mass,
but you are wrong. If you ever focus on communication with individuals
you will be quite surprized at the thoughtfulness you may find. Indeed
you may learn something from someone whom you had slapped one of your
labels onto.
The cast of esteemed literary figures and others who have praised
Ginsberg's work is exhaustive. I personally know some very brilliant and
creative people who are very high on him. No question, amid the triumphs
are some poems which suck (in my opinion). To condemn someone over the
accident of popularity is a non sequiter. Is obscurity is the main
critereon of quality? Are quality poems suddenly trash because they
became "cool" to rock n' roll fans who don't know much about poetry?
Perhaps the introduction of poetry to mass audiences will leave at least
some of them interested. These will enlarge the audience for poets
generally. Poetry slams are like that. Some real poets and some slick
performers who compose material designed to please audiences. It creates
interest in poetry, an art form whose audience has shrunk in this century
to the point that only academics (and few of them) care about it.
ODH
Jesse Garon
Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM (RITTEC) wrote:
> Do we actually believe that Ginsberg is.. what, some babbling idiot with
> little mind in the way of poetry, that his visions (drug induced or what
> have you) were simply short sighted and nothing in comparison to what
> Jesse can do? or any similar poet for that matter?
That about sums up MY take on the issue, yes. "Howl" was nice, but it's
overwritten, and he's gone downhill ever since.
> At this seminar, as a matter of fact, we were discussing the beat generations
> impact on modern poetics and specifically Ginsberg's contribution to poetry.
He certainly made a lot of poets feel more sexually adequate, which no
doubt led to them producing work.
> Most of us agreed (Doctors mind you.. those schooled extensively on what
> were are talking about here.. people who have shook hands with Ezra Pound,
Did they get to shake hands with Mussolini, too?
All things considered, I would rather shake hands with D'ANNUNZIO. You
want to talk poets? Give me a poet who took over a Yugoslavian harbor,
just because he felt like it, and then ran the place.
> following close enough with this string of importance here?) that Ginsberg
> has made the single largest impact on modern poetics since Uncle Walt,
Well, YEAH. We're just now beginning to emerge out of the cesspool he
sunk poetry into. You'll get no argument from ME that Ginsberg had an impact.
> Showing your face in the academic community isn't wise.
The academic community is a pack of clowns and vultures waiting for
Harold Bloom to pitch over and die so they can squabble over his legacy.
Critter
> In article <3tmppu$19...@firehose.mindspring.com> Chuck deVarennes,
> chuc...@mindspring.com writes:
> >How do you know you're Ginsberg's type?
>
> Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that old A.G. is
not
> exactly, er, a selective type. So even if Jesse's ass is blotchy and
> pimpled--and I have seen no evidence that it is--I'm sure A.G. would be
more
> than willing to have a go at it.
>
> --DF
---------
Who is the DF character here, eh? I've been at a writing seminar for the
last week and have fallen beind, and caught back onto this strand to find
that we're talking about Ginsberg and Jessee Garon's ass.. (the object
here is to become unassociated and disconnect myself from the idiotic
babbling above, but it's difficult to do, thus I continue)
Do we actually believe that Ginsberg is.. what, some babbling idiot with
little mind in the way of poetry, that his visions (drug induced or what
have you) were simply short sighted and nothing in comparison to what
Jesse can do? or any similar poet for that matter?
At this seminar, as a matter of fact, we were discussing the beat generations
impact on modern poetics and specifically Ginsberg's contribution to poetry.
Most of us agreed (Doctors mind you.. those schooled extensively on what
were are talking about here.. people who have shook hands with Ezra Pound,
following close enough with this string of importance here?) that Ginsberg
has made the single largest impact on modern poetics since Uncle Walt,
and that his theories on.. how did he put it? Like metaphors juxtaposed
without
transition offering the intervention of both the reader and the vision of
God... okay, the latter is carrying a bit over my line, but as for the reader
becoming a part of the poem, modern writers are beginning to capitolize
on this thought.. poetry slams picking up the pace once again, and poetry
becoming more of a challenge than "oh I was once a little bird and landed
on the peanut butter.." Take that to those horrid stanzas of yours Mr.
"Better Than Ginsberg" Garon and keep your face hidden on the Usenet.
Showing your face in the academic community isn't wise. You can drag
DF along with you so you can amuse each other with more witty stories
about your ass...
Jesus.. faith in America steadily falling.. Critter
Critter
=========='Jesse Garon', 7/15/95==========
[text deleted]
The academic community is a pack of clowns and vultures waiting for
Harold Bloom to pitch over and die so they can squabble over his legacy.
[text deleted]
-----
You believe this? You actually believe that our mentors, those
that show us the path to wisdom and challenge our mentality so we
in turn can not only better our community- not through assumed
capitolism and Western philosophies unchecked by humanistic
morals, but by understanding and humanity- are nothing more than
clowns.. what, clowns dancing to steal our dollars? Their facade
of intelligence which earned them their doctorates is nothing more
than face paint and little red noses? Jesse.. come on, you were
educated by whom? Clowns you are telling me?
Don't get me wrong, I know that education is primary education,
and the seconday education, or the higher education, comes from
world and life expirence, but without an understanding of the gears
grinding in the social and cultural world.. without an education,
you won't be traveling.. you won't be doing anything outside of
Burger World.. makes you want to visit the circus, doesn't it?
HELL NO! THEY'RE VULTURES! come on.. Jesse, you're starting
to sound like a high schooler.. "School sucks man! We don't need
no edukashun!"
...Grooving with Floyd.. Critter.
Jesse Garon
Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM (RITTEC) wrote:
> =========='Jesse Garon', 7/15/95==========
>> The academic community is a pack of clowns and vultures waiting for
>> Harold Bloom to pitch over and die so they can squabble over his legacy.
> You believe this? You actually believe that our mentors, those
> that show us the path to wisdom and challenge our mentality so we
> in turn can not only better our community- not through assumed
> capitolism and Western philosophies unchecked by humanistic
> morals, but by understanding and humanity-
This is some kind of joke, right? Academia's been overrun by
capitAlism and Western philosophies that pay little but lip
service to humanistic morals for YEARS, man. How else do you
explain Camille Paglia?
> are nothing more than
> clowns.. what, clowns dancing to steal our dollars? Their facade
> of intelligence which earned them their doctorates is nothing more
> than face paint and little red noses? Jesse.. come on, you were
> educated by whom? Clowns you are telling me?
Not all of them were clowns. Some were vultures.
> HELL NO! THEY'RE VULTURES! come on.. Jesse, you're starting
> to sound like a high schooler.. "School sucks man! We don't need
> no edukashun!"
You mistake my point. When Harold Bloom kicks off, I'm going in
for my piece of the pie, just like everybody else.
Michele Tepper
>
>At this seminar, as a matter of fact, we were discussing the beat generations
>impact on modern poetics and specifically Ginsberg's contribution to poetry.
>Most of us agreed (Doctors mind you.. those schooled extensively on what
>were are talking about here..
Goodness, what *are* they teaching those MDs these days?
> people who have shook hands with Ezra Pound,
>following close enough with this string of importance here?)
I have to say, I'm wildly unimpressed by (a) people with Ph.Ds in English
Lit, since most of the ones I know aren't that terribly impressive, and
(b) people who have shook hands with Ezra Pound, particularly since Pound
was pretty generous about receiving visitors. Neither qualification (a)
or (b) makes one an automatic expert on anything, since I've known
professors who were idiots outside of their narrow area of
specialization, or who hadn't thought a new thought in thirty years, and
Pound hand-shakers who get up at conferences and argue with straight
faces that the man was neither an anti-Semite or a fascist.
If people can't prove the worth of their own ideas without their degrees
or a dead lunatic to back them up, their ideas probably aren't worth
having. As an example, we have this one:
>that Ginsberg
>has made the single largest impact on modern poetics since Uncle Walt,
I have a personal peeve against people who refer to figures from history
as "Uncle So-and-So" but we'll let that slide. This is just silly. That
old lunatic Pound was far far more influential as a stylist than Ginsberg
could ever dream of being. What's more, he influenced Williams, who in
turn influenced Ginsberg. (Not to mention the influence of such figures as
Eliot and Stevens, and the importance of W.D. Snodgrass and Robert Lowell
for "confessional" poetry.) Anyone who thinks Ginsberg is a prosodic
original hasn't read widely enough. But, then again, anyone who believes
that:
>... poetry slams picking up the pace once again, and poetry
>becoming more of a challenge than "oh I was once a little bird and landed
>on the peanut butter.."
probably hasn't read much at all.
Poetry slams, performance poetry, is an entirely different genre from
written poetry. Half of its appeal lies in the realm of performance art.
And if you think comtemporary poetry written for venues other than slams
isn't challenging and insightful, you haven't been reading the work of
(off the top of my head) Robert Haas, Rita Dove, Jorie Graham, James
Merrill, Jane Kenyon, Denise Levertov, James Schuyler, Edwin Morgan,
Michael Harper, W.S. Merwin, Li-Young Lee, Phillip Levine.........
--
Michele Tepper "When bad techs happen to good cultures," Lentz said.
mi...@umich.edu & "When bad cultures happen to good machines," I insisted.
mte...@panix.com --Richard Powers, _Galatea 2.2_
Jesse Garon
> 'Jesse Garon' <gri...@primenet.com> wrote:
> >The academic community is a pack of clowns and vultures waiting for
> >Harold Bloom to pitch over and die so they can squabble over his legacy.
> Hah. The academic community has long since left that overweight leerer in
> its wake. Harold Bloom is the crazy old uncle of contemporary criticism:
> widely respected for his past, widely avoided for his present.
Yeah, but deep down, they all want to be the Great White Whale, the
one that can get away with teaching a class by holding his head in
his hands in his desk, rereading the same two hundred books over and
over while he writes prefaces to them, and...I mean let's face it, the
role of 'crazy old uncle' is pretty damn CUSHY, when you get right
down to it.
> The only person I know of with any apparent interest in assuming the
> mantle of Harold Bloom is Camille Paglia, and she won't get it, because
> she hasn't written a book like _The Anxiety of Influence_, which for all
> of its pomposities and unreadabilities and sexual perversions, is
> essentially *right*.
Well, that's because Camille Paglia really doesn't understand what
Harold Bloom is ABOUT. She's writing with an agenda, even if it at
times it's nothing more than "I'm RIGHT and all you other people are
WRONG nyaah nyaah!" Harold Bloom has no agenda, except to get everybody
to stop BUGGING him so that he can go back to his room and read Milton
for the thirty-seventh time.
Also, I mean, let's face it, the woman uses THE GOLDEN BOUGH as an
example of good anthropology.
> Michele Tepper "When bad techs happen to good cultures," Lentz said.
> mi...@umich.edu & "When bad cultures happen to good machines," I insisted.
> mte...@panix.com --Richard Powers, _Galatea 2.2_
People should read this book, if for no other reason than the fact that
it has the novelist's email address. Although I can't understand why Lentz
always refers to the novelist-narrator as "Marcel". The roles of novelist
and mime have NOTHING in common with each other.
Michele Tepper
>
>The academic community is a pack of clowns and vultures waiting for
>Harold Bloom to pitch over and die so they can squabble over his legacy.
Hah. The academic community has long since left that overweight leerer in
its wake. Harold Bloom is the crazy old uncle of contemporary criticism:
widely respected for his past, widely avoided for his present.
The only person I know of with any apparent interest in assuming the
mantle of Harold Bloom is Camille Paglia, and she won't get it, because
she hasn't written a book like _The Anxiety of Influence_, which for all
of its pomposities and unreadabilities and sexual perversions, is
essentially *right*.
--
Michele Tepper
>mi...@umich.edu (Michele Tepper) wrote:
>> The only person I know of with any apparent interest in assuming the
>> mantle of Harold Bloom is Camille Paglia, and she won't get it, because
>> she hasn't written a book like _The Anxiety of Influence_, which for all
>> of its pomposities and unreadabilities and sexual perversions, is
>> essentially *right*.
>
>Harold Bloom is ABOUT. She's writing with an agenda, even if it at
>times it's nothing more than "I'm RIGHT and all you other people are
>WRONG nyaah nyaah!" Harold Bloom has no agenda, except to get everybody
>to stop BUGGING him so that he can go back to his room and read Milton
>for the thirty-seventh time.
Nonsense: of course Bloom has an agenda. I mean, he wouldn't keep
writing if he wasn't trying to convince us that he's right and we're
wrong. But he has more than just an agenda: he also has a clue, albeit a
rapidly-deteriorating one.
>Also, I mean, let's face it, the woman uses THE GOLDEN BOUGH as an
>example of good anthropology.
Which suggests she hasn't read a book written since, oh, what, 1945?
Anyone who hasn't read Clifford Geertz, let alone Levi-Strauss and Mead,
shouldn't be allowed to discuss anthropology in a public forum.
>> mte...@panix.com --Richard Powers, _Galatea 2.2_
>
>People should read this book, if for no other reason than the fact that
>it has the novelist's email address.
Although according to a gopher search of the appropriate institution of
higher learning, it's not an accurate one.
>Although I can't understand why Lentz
>always refers to the novelist-narrator as "Marcel". The roles of novelist
>and mime have NOTHING in common with each other.
Right, and why does the narrator call Lentz "Engineer"? They never once
get on a train!
Jesse Garon
Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM (RITTEC) wrote:
> ==========Michele Tepper, 7/18/95==========
> >But, then again, anyone who believes
> >>... poetry slams picking up the pace once again, and poetry
> >>becoming more of a challenge than "oh I was once a little bird and landed
> >>on the peanut butter.."
> >probably hasn't read much at all.
> Ahhhh.. ahhh.. okay, I see. I know who I'm speaking to now. Sooooo,
> Michele, Slam Poets are uneducated morons.. or at least educated
> below their doctorates, where they become.. oh what was it you said?
> Unimpressive idiots? What are you, some arrogant Harvard graduate?
Very close. But also a lucky stab.
> Have you felt the rush of performance poetry?
Bah. The sum total of performance poetry contains not one tenth of
the rush and ecstasy of that one shot in HARD-BOILED where Tequila
and the other guy shoot their way down one corridor, into an elevator,
then down ANOTHER corridor in one take.
Of course, if you add the video to "Fight the Power" to the sum total
of performance poetry, then the gap is significantly lessened.
Critter
=========='Jesse Garon', 7/17/95==========
>This is some kind of joke, right? Academia's been overrun by
>capitAlism and Western philosophies that pay little but lip
>service to humanistic morals for YEARS, man. How else do you
>explain Camille Paglia?
----
What I mean is that I do what is required of me to pass the
class, but I take what I believe, and interpret everything
else in a more moralist, valuistic (?) way.. yes, academia
has been overrun by these western pigs (little Ruski slang)
but that doesn't mean that we have to take what they say
and make ourselves in their likeness.
I listen to you just as I do them. There are no morons, there
are only those that think in a different way than I. That means
I select what I wish to incorporate into my own little book of
life. Simply that. Paying profs to educate me instead of paying
you to educate me gets me a little piece of paper that most
of the world views as important. That's all. Not to mention,
the combined expirence and knowledge in an entire
university of educators slightly outweighs yours (that isn't
a crack.. just an opinion.)
>You mistake my point. When Harold Bloom kicks off, I'm going in
>for my piece of the pie, just like everybody else.
Save me some, Jesse.. I'm a growing boy!
...Critter
Critter
==========Michele Tepper, 7/18/95==========
[text deleted]
>I have to say, I'm wildly unimpressed by (a) people with Ph.Ds in English
>Lit, since most of the ones I know aren't that terribly impressive, and
>(b) people who have shook hands with Ezra Pound, particularly since Pound
>was pretty generous about receiving visitors. Neither qualification (a)
>or (b) makes one an automatic expert on anything, since I've known
>professors who were idiots outside of their narrow area of
>specialization, or who hadn't thought a new thought in thirty years, and
>Pound hand-shakers who get up at conferences and argue with straight
>faces that the man was neither an anti-Semite or a fascist.
This, madame, was a wild attempt on my part to qualify the opinions
of those that I was speaking of. I say wild because there always has
to be a smart ass in the crowd that can't shift from the arrogant gear
and listen to another opinon for once.
Those unimpressive idiots with their menial PhDs have studied long
and hard for their title.. they don't pick them up in the wellfare line.
Now, I'm not saying that all profs with their little degree papers are
as impressive as they should be, but those writers and professors I
was talking about above were very much an enlightened group of
people. One reason being that if I had made an off-based comment,
their first reaction was to discuss, and not to attack, as you have done
in your reply.
Regardless, we'll see what we can salvage from such a reply.
> ...That
>old lunatic Pound was far far more influential as a stylist than Ginsberg
>could ever dream of being.
So, you are telling me that most of the modern writers are NOT, in fact,
starting to conform.. or create- I should say- their work in long lines and
using a very random form of imagery, using metaphor in Ginsberg's likeness.
They are in fact writing about historical events, focusing on the Greek and
Roman mythology, or are you saying that poets are now beginning to interpret
classical Greek poetry and weaving into their own words. Are you saying that
poets are not searching for the beautiful Ginsbergian metaphor, but to
create such poetry that only those educated on a level equal or higher to
the poets, which should have no less than a masters degree in at least two
or more subjects, could understand what was written?
Is this what you are implying?????
>But, then again, anyone who believes
>>... poetry slams picking up the pace once again, and poetry
>>becoming more of a challenge than "oh I was once a little bird and landed
>>on the peanut butter.."
>probably hasn't read much at all.
Ahhhh.. ahhh.. okay, I see. I know who I'm speaking to now. Sooooo,
Michele, Slam Poets are uneducated morons.. or at least educated
below their doctorates, where they become.. oh what was it you said?
Unimpressive idiots? What are you, some arrogant Harvard graduate?
Have you felt the rush of performance poetry? Have you ever tried
to keep an audience's attention by reading poetry that is actually
entertaining or did you in fact try this and now have become bitter
towards the experience? You seem very angry, I'd be interested in
learning why you are so bitter towards this progression of the art.
>Poetry slams, performance poetry, is an entirely different genre from
>written poetry. Half of its appeal lies in the realm of performance art.
Half-way descent comment here. I'm glad to read something that isn't
so rude as before. You are right, almost. Half of the appeal does
lie in the realm of its performance, but you still are reading a poem. Now,
the chemistry of the poem is going to look different than, well, Pound's
poetry. But it will look a lot like Ginsberg's!
But wait, you said that Pound had more of an influence than Ginsberg,
so how can this be?
>And if you think comtemporary poetry written for venues other than slams
>isn't challenging and insightful, you haven't been reading the work of
>(off the top of my head) Robert Haas, Rita Dove, Jorie Graham, James
>Merrill, Jane Kenyon, Denise Levertov, James Schuyler, Edwin Morgan,
>Michael Harper, W.S. Merwin, Li-Young Lee, Phillip Levine.........
Who said this? Did I say any poetry that wasn't slam poetry wasn't worth
the read? Did I say this or did you say this. You have mentioned some
very impressive poets.. I think. If only I didn't love the art of slam as
much
as I do, maybe then I wouldn't be such a moron..
(Just in case you're still in that holier-than-thou gear of yours, I am
familiar
with the poets you mentioned.. it took me a lot of work to get where I am
today, and I haven't even begun the journey. What I said about the slam
poets being morons was sarcasam, and a VERY idiotic comment.. good
thing I didn't say it first. Where did I hear that origionally? Hmmm....)
Proud to be Slamming: Critter
John Silence
> Critter <Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM> wrote:the usual bullshit
Cheetah treats us to;
then Ms. Tepper quite astutely noted he had most probably never heard of:
> (off the top of my head) Robert Haas, Rita Dove, Jorie Graham, James
> Merrill, Jane Kenyon, Denise Levertov, James Schuyler, Edwin Morgan,
> Michael Harper, W.S. Merwin, Li-Young Lee, Phillip Levine.........
In another post, however, Cheetah informed us that he had just "discovered"
Haas and suggested we check him out. In response, I suggested that his
next "discovery" would most probably be Merwin. I didn't mention the
other folks you list, though I might have, and to whom I would add Jim Tate
(heard of him, Critter?).
Thank god someone else is sick of this boob wasting bandwidth.
Regards,
John Silence
______________________******____________*****____________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...calling from the sacred/forbidden place of jouissance
"Oh! oh! My feet of fire! My burning feet of fire! Oh! oh! This height
and fiery speed!" -- Algernon Blackwood
"Yours is so big and powerful, but in spite of that, you are impotent.
You cannot hurt me with it." -- Otto Fenichel
David Futrelle
Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM writes:
>Most of us agreed ... that Ginsberg
>has made the single largest impact on modern poetics since Uncle Walt...
Well, perhaps, but neither of them can compare with Uncle Milty.
--DF
P.S. Also, my understanding is that "Howl" was plagiarized in its entirety
from a 1948 poem called "Bowl." I don't remember the author, but it was about
bowling--well, it sort of compared life to a good night out at the bowling
lanes--and Ann Landers runs excerpts of it from time to time in her column as
the "gem of the day." I believe you can get the whole thing if you send her
$4.95 and a long-sized SASE, care of the Chicago Tribune.
Critter
=========='Jesse Garon', 7/19/95==========
[text deleted]
>> Ahhhh.. ahhh.. okay, I see. I know who I'm speaking to now. Sooooo,
>> Michele, Slam Poets are uneducated morons.. or at least educated
>> below their doctorates, where they become.. oh what was it you said?
>> Unimpressive idiots? What are you, some arrogant Harvard graduate?
>
>Very close. But also a lucky stab.
Wow... from out of the blue comes a completely random hit. Actually,
there are different types of arrogance: educated and uneducated. When
all you can is babble on about how much better you are based on looks
or the amount of men that want your hot bod, that's considered uneducated.
(That type of arrogance also includes telling others how many people read
your work and love it.) Those who can give stats and attach names to their
stupidity (much like scientists that tell us the world is flat according to
this
data backed by these people) are normally slave to educated arrogance.
[text deleted]
>Bah. The sum total of performance poetry contains not one tenth of
>the rush and ecstasy of that one shot in HARD-BOILED where Tequila
>and the other guy shoot their way down one corridor, into an elevator,
>then down ANOTHER corridor in one take.
>
>Of course, if you add the video to "Fight the Power" to the sum total
>of performance poetry, then the gap is significantly lessened.
Well sure. I'm sure sky diving and playing 'chicken' offers a stronger
rush then performance poetry ever could, but then again, thats an
ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SUBJECT now, isn't it?
...Critter
Critter
==========David Futrelle, 7/19/95==========
[text deleted]
>Well, perhaps, but neither of them can compare with Uncle Milty.
>
>--DF
[text deleted]
Possibly, then again, he isn't exactly in the running for the making
the most impact on modern poetry since Walt Whitman.. then
again, I could be wrong.
...Critter
Jesse Garon
Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM (RITTEC) wrote:
> >Bah. The sum total of performance poetry contains not one tenth of
> >the rush and ecstasy of that one shot in HARD-BOILED where Tequila
> >and the other guy shoot their way down one corridor, into an elevator,
> >then down ANOTHER corridor in one take.
> >
> >Of course, if you add the video to "Fight the Power" to the sum total
> >of performance poetry, then the gap is significantly lessened.
>
> Well sure. I'm sure sky diving and playing 'chicken' offers a stronger
> rush then performance poetry ever could, but then again, thats an
> ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SUBJECT now, isn't it?
Well, if the criteria you were using was the quality of the rush given,
I'm merely pointing out that performance poetry is a deficient artform.
You'll have to find some other criteria that makes performance poetry
worthwhile. For me, I find it's the best medium for picking up chicks
that dress in black, smoke Dunhills, and are great fellators. But you
may have some other aspect of performance poetry you prefer.
__________________
http://www.primenet.com/~grifter
I am the God damnedest mass of tact known to the human race
BEATRICE -- MAXIMUM CINEMA -- INTERNATIONAL POP OVERTHROW
Find some plants, trees, etc,. and communicate to them * $cientology
individually until you know they received your communication * Creed
Wednesday/jones
<futr...@interaccess.com> writes:
>
>In article <DBsMw...@intruder.daytonoh.attgis.com> Critter,
>Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM writes:
>>Most of us agreed ... that Ginsberg
>>has made the single largest impact on modern poetics since Uncle
Walt...
>
>
>--DF
or uncle al. hey, did everybody across america get uncle al or was it
just us lucky suckers in dayton, ohio?
---jones
Michele Tepper
>
>> >But, then again, anyone who believes
>> >>... poetry slams picking up the pace once again, and poetry
>> >>becoming more of a challenge than "oh I was once a little bird and landed
>> >>on the peanut butter.."
>> >probably hasn't read much at all.
>
>> Ahhhh.. ahhh.. okay, I see. I know who I'm speaking to now. Sooooo,
>> Michele, Slam Poets are uneducated morons.. or at least educated
>> below their doctorates, where they become.. oh what was it you said?
>> Unimpressive idiots? What are you, some arrogant Harvard graduate?
I'm someone with basic reading comprehension skills. Go back and look at
all of what I wrote again; I'll attempt to reformulate it in small words so
you'll be certain to understand me. Your belief that the only good
contemporary poetry is performance poetry suggests that you have not read
much, if any, written contemporary poetry. At no point did I suggest
that slam poets are uneducated morons, just that slam poetry and written
poetry are different things. This is not something I've seen debated by
slam poets themselves, who refer to what they do as 'performance poetry'
for a reason.
I would also like to note that I am not the one here obsessed with
academic credentials. I have no idea if you went to college, or where
you went if you did, and I don't care: you're behaving foolishly no
matter what the diplomas on your wall say. As I said in my previous
post, academic credentials are no guarantee of anything.
--
Michele Tepper "When bad techs happen to good cultures," Lentz said.
mi...@umich.edu "When bad cultures happen to good machines," I insisted.
--Richard Powers, _Galatea 2.2_
Critter
==========Michele Tepper, 7/21/95==========
[text deleted]
> ...I'll attempt to reformulate it in small words so
>you'll be certain to understand me. Your belief that the only good
>contemporary poetry is performance poetry suggests that you have not read
>much, if any, written contemporary poetry. At no point did I suggest
>that slam poets are uneducated morons, just that slam poetry and written
>poetry are different things. This is not something I've seen debated by
>slam poets themselves, who refer to what they do as 'performance poetry'
>for a reason.
[text deleted]
You are so kind.. if only all women treated me this way I'd pray for HIV.
My belief that only good comtemporary poetry is perfomance poetry suggests
that I have not read much contemporary poetry, eh? I'm really not trying
to knit-pick here, being that you were so kind as to reformulate your comment
in small words, but wouldn't everyone agree that only GOOD poetry is
good poetry? That's a silly comment.. sorry to have made it.
I'm not sure when I said that about only the good contemporary poetry is
performance poetry, I don't agree with that at all.. it would be silly of me
to
have said it in that case. Just so we aren't balancing on the edge of a
misunderstanding here, I agree that SOME slam poetry is different from
written poetry (though I'd assume you have to write it down before saying
it) but the confusion comes in to play when you mention the term performance
poetry. Let me explain.
Contemporary or non-contemporary poetry can be read orally, thus "slammed"
on the stage. This can make anything contemporary poem that is able to
be read (I believe that would include all contemporary poetry) a slam poem.
Spoken word is also slam poetry, mostly being very agressive and
semi-political
in nature, and will sometimes use the freeverse convention used by Ginsberg,
Sandburg, Whitman and others: the long line stanzas. The three aforementioned
writers are all considered contemporary, semi to very political, and at times,
agressive. Thus, contemporary poetry can be considered spoken word, spoken
word can be considered slam poetry, and slam poetry can be considered
contemporary poetry. Isn't that all nice and Tao? And we haven't even thrown
the idea of performance poetry into the kettle. Is it contemporary poetry?
Is it spoken word? Is it slam poetry? Is it drama? Or is it a mad-cap attempt
to drag Dennis Miller into the realms of poetry? I'm not quite sure.
I'd say ask the academics in my obsession with educated persons, but then
ACADEMIC CREDENTIALS ARE NO GUARANTEE OF ANYTHING -am I
quoting you correctly?- so I guess we'll never know..
Shit.. no wonder poetry has never been able to hold a steady definition..
If it wasn't for dreams we'd have to put up with the shit every moment of
our lives... I'm going to bed.
Happily dreaming in metaphor: Critter
Jesse Garon
> I would also like to note that I am not the one here obsessed with
> academic credentials. I have no idea if you went to college, or where
> you went if you did, and I don't care: you're behaving foolishly no
> matter what the diplomas on your wall say. As I said in my previous
> post, academic credentials are no guarantee of anything.
For example, I have a master's degree, but that hasn't stopped me...
well, partly because I realized that academia was a massive con game
and chucked it all to become a true organic intellectual, but you do
see the point I'm trying to make here. Let me try it in rhyme:
I was going to the school
And I got a nice degree
But I don't play by their rule
So they said goodbye to me
And I didn't really mind
Cause the quad just ain't my scene
So I walk the earth to find
Inner wisdom so serene
You might think lambskin is neat.
But I chase knowledge with my feet.
__________________
http://www.primenet.com/~grifter
I am the God damnedest mass of tact known to the human race
BEATRICE -- MAXIMUM CINEMA -- INTERNATIONAL POP OVERTHROW
"Iron Cross." "Mace." "Not Mace -- pepper spray."
Critter
=========='Jesse Garon', 7/21/95==========
>You'll have to find some other criteria that makes performance poetry
>worthwhile. For me, I find it's the best medium for picking up chicks
>that dress in black, smoke Dunhills, and are great fellators. But you
>may have some other aspect of performance poetry you prefer.
Is that the reason why they have national competitions? or is that
the judging criteria?
"Team #2: you have attracted 49 chicks, 46 of which are dressed
completely in black, 42 of which are smoking Dunhills. Those smoking
Menthol have been disqualified. The judges will now retire into their
chambers with the chicks that remain to see if they quality for the
last portion of our competition. The judges will return in less than an
hour with both the results of the competition and very large grins on
their faces."
I don't know Jesse. I really don't know about you and this thing called
art. I'm mostly a liberal at heart, but opinions like yours really makes me
want to vote against government support of art.
Grinning as usual: Critter
John Silence
the usual mindless twaddle, eventually arriving at:
>Ginsberg, Sandburg, Whitman and others: the long line stanzas. The
>three aforementioned writers are all considered contemporary, semi to
>very political, and at times, agressive.
Considered by whom? Two of the three are dead and the third, Un-dead:
Ginsberg has been a non-force in poetry for a good twenty-five years;
Sandburg has been unincarnate since 1967; and Whitman never breathed a day
in this century (1819-1892). We need not speak of Ginsberg -- no one will
notice the silence. Sandburg was dismissed in his own time as a "pop poet"
along the lines of e e cummings and Rod McKuen-- an appreciation which
discerning readers have found no reason to alter yet. And as regards
Whitman...an interesting choice of avatar for your "new school:" Walt
Whitman was about your age, Critter (five ), when Lord Byron died.
Perhaps you may say that he has influenced contemporary poetry (and God
help us and poor, defenseless poetry if this is true), but to call him
"contemporary" as you unquestionably do, is purest hogwash and yet another
shining example of "Crittercism:" a variety of nonsense masquerading as
intellectual investigation, akin to the Spoonerism and Stengelese (though
not nearly as humorous). When will this idiot shut up and keep his
foolish notions to himself?
Michele Tepper
Critter <Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM> wrote:
>
>My belief that only good comtemporary poetry is perfomance poetry suggests
>that I have not read much contemporary poetry, eh? I'm really not trying
>to knit-pick here,
...or spell, for that matter...
>I'm not sure when I said that about only the good contemporary poetry is
>performance poetry, I don't agree with that at all..
Go back and re-read your own comments. You do know how to do that, don't
you?
>Contemporary or non-contemporary poetry can be read orally, thus "slammed"
>on the stage. This can make anything contemporary poem that is able to
>be read (I believe that would include all contemporary poetry) a slam poem.
As written, this makes no sense. I think I can vaguely intuit what you
are pathetically attempting to communicate, though, and I will respond
that the best slam poetry is performance art -- and like performance art
of all other kinds, is not meant to be fully realized on the printed
page. Do try going somewhere where they take performance poetry
seriously, like the Newyoriquan Poet's Cafe in New York City, and try to
pick up a few tips.
> will sometimes use the freeverse convention used by Ginsberg,
>Sandburg, Whitman and others: the long line stanzas. The three aforementioned
>writers are all considered contemporary, semi to very political, and at times,
>agressive.
None of these writers are considered contemporary -- even Ginsberg, who
is still alive, is appreciated more as a relic of earlier times than for
any of the work he does now. As I noted before, you really have no idea
what you are talking about when you talk about contemporary poetry, and
it's becoming clearer and clearer that you have no idea what you are
talking about no matter what the topic. Do go away and shut up before
you sprain something.
--
Michele Tepper "When bad techs happen to good cultures," Lentz said.
mte...@panix.com "When bad cultures happen to good machines," I insisted.
--Richard Powers, _Galatea 2.2_
Michele Tepper
>Whitman...an interesting choice of avatar for your "new school:" Walt
>Whitman was about your age, Critter (five ), when Lord Byron died.
>Perhaps you may say that he has influenced contemporary poetry (and God
>help us and poor, defenseless poetry if this is true)
Of course Whitman has influenced twentieth century poetry: he's the first
American poet to celebrate urban life, and perhaps its most eloquent
defender in English since Robert Fergusson. He also spoke openly of
same-sex desire when such things were only hinted at in public, and
blazed an important path for later writers. Could Hart Crane have
written _The Bridge_ if Whitman hadn't already written so lyrically of
bridges and ferries and the history of New York? And stylistically,
he's an important part of a long American tradition of expansiveness,
which in this century includes Williams's _Paterson_, Olsen's _Maximus
Poems_, Merrill's _The Changing Light at Sandover_, and Pound's
_Cantos_. To quote the loony old Fascist himself:
I make a pact with you, Walt Whitman--
I have detested you long enough.
I come to you as a grown child
Who has had a pig-headed father;
I am old enough now to make friends.
It was you that broke the new wood,
Now is a time for carving.
We have one sap and one root--
Let there be commerce between us.
Critter
==========Michele Tepper, 7/22/95==========
>Go back and re-read your own comments. You do know how to do that, don't
>you?
Wow, pretty keen, aren't you?
>>Contemporary or non-contemporary poetry can be read orally, thus "slammed"
>>on the stage. This can make anything contemporary poem that is able to
>>be read (I believe that would include all contemporary poetry) a slam poem.
>
>As written, this makes no sense. I think I can vaguely intuit what you
>are pathetically attempting to communicate,
Jesus H. Christ, get off your goddamned high fucking horse and act like
a human for fifteen seconds of your arrogant life! Are you listening to
yourself
or is this some ragging fit of yours? If this is the way you talk to any
human
that doesn't think exactly as you do then I must say you are in quite a
bloody
mess. Shit like this turns people off to you, making you look more like a
moron
than the person you're trying to attack, which in turn will leave you lonely
in
your bed sheets. Thus, no sexual pleasure, which leads to higher levels of
stress and less of an ability to cope, which in turn makes you more of a
bitch
than you were in the beginning. I'm not saying you're a bitch just yet, but
you're little holier-than-thou fits are bloody annoying. GET YOUR SWOLLEN
ARROGANT ASS DOWN OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND TRY A BIT OF
LISTENING FOR ONCE INSTEAD OF BITCHING! (Please..)
>though, and I will respond
>that the best slam poetry is performance art -- and like performance art
>of all other kinds, is not meant to be fully realized on the printed
>page. Do try going somewhere where they take performance poetry
>seriously, like the Newyoriquan Poet's Cafe in New York City, and try to
>pick up a few tips.
I live in Dayton. I am a spoken word poet in the Dayton scene. I do
respect the Newyoriquan Poets and their work, as do I respect the Boston
and Chicago poets which seem to come out on top in most of the national
slam competitions. I choose to grow in the spirit of my city, however,
for a poet must know the connections his spirit has to those larger than his
own, in my opinion. So, Michele, thank-you for informing me how to be
cool in your eyes, but my path has already been chosen.
>> will sometimes use the freeverse convention used by Ginsberg,
>>Sandburg, Whitman and others: the long line stanzas. The three
aforementioned
>>writers are all considered contemporary, semi to very political, and at
times,
>>agressive.
>
>None of these writers are considered contemporary -- even Ginsberg, who
>is still alive, is appreciated more as a relic of earlier times than for
>any of the work he does now. As I noted before, you really have no idea
>what you are talking about when you talk about contemporary poetry, and
>it's becoming clearer and clearer that you have no idea what you are
>talking about no matter what the topic.
Uh-huh. No idea what I am talking about. Let me pull out my little book of
poetry here. Oh, well, lookie here, it's the second edition of the Norton
Anthology of Modern Poems. Now, if you are a better resource than Northon
is for English Lit, then I appologize for wasting your time. Regardless,
let me read off those poets who they beleive to be Modern or Contemporary.
Walt Whitman, Gerard Manley Hopkins, Robert Frost, oh look! Carl
Sandburg, uhm.. Wallace Stevens, William Carlos Williams, Ezra Pound,
T.S.Eliot, Langston Hughes, skipping a bit here as I go, James
Merrill- enchanting fellow there- and, oh my stars! Allen Ginsberg!
Here is Norton's address:
W.W. Norton & Company, Inc. 500 Fifth Avenue, New York, N.Y. 10110
They really should be informed that these writers are neither modern
nor contempory, shouldn't they be Michele?
You've made a fool out of yourself by talking like the High Queen of
Poetry. This is an art, and for most a desire. You do not set the
boundaries for what is good and what is bad in our art, and neither
do I. We are here to discuss poetry and its many facets, from
classical to contemporary, and I do dream of the day when new-
comers to RAP won't feel like their tip-toeing through a mind
field because arrogant bastards like you feel it is in their place
to title them a moron for attempting to do what only you can do.
I've made a fool out of myself also for try to knock some sense
into your swollen head. People have been complaining about the
arrogance of you and your breed ever since I shook the shroud
of 'newbie', and it's obvious you won't either go away or learn to
talk like a rational human. Thus I've wasted many peoples time
because they had to read this and I appologize accordingly.
I don't mean to sound like I'm preparing for war. As many who
know me will tell you, I hold a gruge about as long as I can
hold a piss.. that means not long at all. I did speak strong
words above, and I'll hold to them because you are acting
like everything I mentioned. Reply to me as you would any
human that you feel is in the wrong and quite possibly a
rational understanding can be met by both of us and all
of those who wish to flame you and I for our comments.
If you can't being youself down off the plane of God and
talk to us human beings for a while, then stay up there.
I'm sure none of us what to hear how much better you are
than the rest of us.
Cooling down now: Critter
Critter
==========John Silence, 7/19/95==========
[text deleted]
>Thank god someone else is sick of this boob wasting bandwidth.
[text deleted]
If you and Michele ever mated, I'd put money down on the kid
being the next Hitler.
WAIT! WAIT! I've seen the errors in my ways! Oh John, OH
MIGHTY JOHN! Please, save me from a life of self-thinking
and a miserable existance where I hold true to my own
opinions! Please, put me on your mailing list! Send me
T-shirts with your angelic figure water-coloured on the
front! Send me your teachings and your guidance! I have
seen that I can no longer think in ways unthought by
your holy reverence! Please, I am at your feet, begging
for forgiveness.
No.. hold on.. must have blanked out on the espresso
rush. Whew.. Oh Lord, what have I done! I've made a
pact with John the Great? I'll be sewing iron crosses on
my shirts for weeks.
John, one favour please: Don't. What ever it is that your
arrogant swollen head is thinking, don't. (My God I feel like
I'm talking to Michele all over again!)
..Lost in Assholes: Critter
Critter
==========John Silence, 7/22/95==========
>On Sat, 22 Jul 1995, Critter wrote:
>
>>three aforementioned writers are all considered contemporary, semi to
>>very political, and at times, agressive.
>
>Ginsberg has been a non-force in poetry for a good twenty-five years;
>Sandburg has been unincarnate since 1967; and Whitman never breathed a day
>in this century (1819-1892).
[text deleted]
Odd.. I thought that contemporary was of or pertaining to modern times. I had
no idea it meant alive and kicking at this very hour! I truly am an idiot
John,
thanks for helping out there.
[text deleted]
>When will this idiot shut up and keep his
>foolish notions to himself?
Does anyone know Mr. Silence? Is he like this all the time or is he
someone's grandfather that was allowed access to the Usenet while
his sanity is slowly slipping away? I have no clue who he is and I
have no idea why he is taking the liberty to flame me after every word
I speak. (Yes John, I know. I'm an idiot.. that's right.) I was just curious.
Get me John! Come on! Come on, big guy! Get me! (Ruff ruff)
Okay, Next! Critter
Crisper
>I live in Dayton. I am a spoken word poet in the Dayton scene...
"the Dayton scene"? what the...
oh yeah, the Dayton scene, right up there with the Des Moines Iowa scene,
the Sheridan Wyoming scene, the Nogales Arizona scene, not to mention the
swinging Duluth Minnesota scene...
you are one funny son of a bitch crapper. I mean, critter.
Jesse Garon
Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM (RITTEC) wrote:
> ==========Michele Tepper, 7/22/95==========
> >Go back and re-read your own comments. You do know how to do that, don't
> >you?
>
> Wow, pretty keen, aren't you?
I think she's kicking your ass. That's pretty keen.
> Jesus H. Christ, get off your goddamned high fucking horse and act like
> a human for fifteen seconds of your arrogant life! Are you listening to
> yourself
> or is this some ragging fit of yours?
That's a good one, Mr. Chris Ritter of Dayton. When all other tactics
of debate fail, blame the menses. The failsafe retort to any issue.
> If this is the way you talk to any
> human that doesn't think exactly as you do then I must say you are
> in quite a bloody mess. Shit like this turns people off to you, making
> you look more like a moron than the person you're trying to attack, which
> in turn will leave you lonely in
> your bed sheets. Thus, no sexual pleasure...
You chopped off her hands? Cut off her electricity?
> which leads to higher levels of
> stress and less of an ability to cope, which in turn makes you more of a
> bitch
> than you were in the beginning. I'm not saying you're a bitch just yet...
No, you're just trying to undermine her whole argument by blaming it
on the crimson wave. I'm sure the other women of r.a.p. find that very
endearing, Chris.
> I live in Dayton. I am a spoken word poet in the Dayton scene. I do
> respect the Newyoriquan Poets and their work, as do I respect the Boston
> and Chicago poets which seem to come out on top in most of the national
> slam competitions. I choose to grow in the spirit of my city, however...
Well, there's your problem, right there. "The Dayton scene" is one of
those imaginary concepts, like "the Cubs' pennant hopes" or "exciting
season finale of Baywatch".
> for a poet must know the connections his spirit has to those larger than his
> own, in my opinion.
Blah blah blah. Is that the kind of crap you learn in the Dayton scene?
> >None of these writers are considered contemporary -- even Ginsberg, who
> >is still alive, is appreciated more as a relic of earlier times than for
> >any of the work he does now. As I noted before, you really have no idea
> >what you are talking about when you talk about contemporary poetry, and
> >it's becoming clearer and clearer that you have no idea what you are
> >talking about no matter what the topic.
> Uh-huh. No idea what I am talking about. Let me pull out my little book of
> poetry here. Oh, well, lookie here, it's the second edition of the Norton
> Anthology of Modern Poems. Now, if you are a better resource than Northon
> is for English Lit, then I appologize for wasting your time. Regardless,
> let me read off those poets who they beleive to be Modern or Contemporary.
Oh, hey, well, if W. W. Norton says it, it must be so! Let's all bow down
and kiss the fat purple ass of W. W. Norton, lord of knowledge and wisdom
and arbiter of the modern and contemporary.
> Walt Whitman, Gerard Manley Hopkins, Robert Frost, oh look! Carl
> Sandburg, uhm.. Wallace Stevens, William Carlos Williams, Ezra Pound,
> T.S.Eliot, Langston Hughes, skipping a bit here as I go, James
> Merrill- enchanting fellow there- and, oh my stars! Allen Ginsberg!
None of those guys are contemporary, Chris. Those are the MODERN poets.
Not the contemporary ones. Also, the inclusion of Ginsberg is probably
more of a sopthrow to poor popular taste than actual poetic merit.
> Here is Norton's address:
> W.W. Norton & Company, Inc. 500 Fifth Avenue, New York, N.Y. 10110
> They really should be informed that these writers are neither modern
> nor contempory, shouldn't they be Michele?
Michele never said they were not modern. She said they were not contemporary.
Your little stunt does nothing to disprove her, and merely proves that you
are a fool who has no ability in the field of reading comprehension, and
like some goofball creation of Burroughs have been talking out your ass.
Also, if you keep throwing these hissy fits, we may end up referring
you to alt.usenet.kooks, where you truly belong.
> You've made a fool out of yourself by talking like the High Queen of
> Poetry. This is an art, and for most a desire. You do not set the
> boundaries for what is good and what is bad in our art, and neither
> do I.
That's right. You do not, and Michele does not. "Jesse Garon" does.
And the pronounced judgment of "Jesse Garon" is that you are what is
bad in your art, Chris Ritter.
> I don't mean to sound like I'm preparing for war
You ought to. "Jesse Garon" has declared war on all things that render
poet weak and disgusting and unable to attain greatness. All things that
debase it as an artform, and all that shows ignorance of the legacy of
the poetic tradition. "Jesse Garon" declares war on you, Chris Ritter,
and "Jesse Garon" will kill your men, burn your villages, and hear the
lamentations of your women, and "Jesse Garon" will conquer.
The Dayton scene. That's very funny.
__________________
http://www.primenet.com/~grifter
I am the God damnedest mass of tact known to the human race
BEATRICE -- MAXIMUM CINEMA -- INTERNATIONAL POP OVERTHROW
"Navy Cross." "Mace." "Not Mace -- pepper spray."
Jesse Garon
Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM (RITTEC) wrote:
> ==========John Silence, 7/22/95==========
> >On Sat, 22 Jul 1995, Critter wrote:
> >
> >>Ginsberg, Sandburg, Whitman and others: the long line stanzas. The
> >>three aforementioned writers are all considered contemporary, semi to
> >>very political, and at times, agressive.
> >Considered by whom? Two of the three are dead and the third, Un-dead:
> >Ginsberg has been a non-force in poetry for a good twenty-five years;
> >Sandburg has been unincarnate since 1967; and Whitman never breathed a day
> >in this century (1819-1892).
> Odd.. I thought that contemporary was of or pertaining to modern times. I had
> no idea it meant alive and kicking at this very hour! I truly am an idiot
You said it. Well, I said it first, but you confirmed it.
And you thought wrong, idiot.
Jesse Garon
Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM (RITTEC) wrote:
> ==========John Silence, 7/19/95==========
>
> [text deleted]
>
> >Thank god someone else is sick of this boob wasting bandwidth.
>
> [text deleted]
>
> If you and Michele ever mated, I'd put money down on the kid
> being the next Hitler.
All right, that's it. Shut 'er down. Move along. This thread is over.
Come on, buddy, move it, there's nothing for you to see here.
Critter
Damn Jesse, every post of yours says one thing:
Jesse it the ultimate, there is none higher.
I really don't care to hear that with every one
of your posts.
I blew up at Michele because she took the liberty
of doing what I absolutely despise: flaming.
Not that I really smile everytime I read my
post because it was a very poor reaction to
her little flaming episode. I should have
ignored her rudeness and answered any
reasonable question she posed.
That is exactly what I'm doing here. I really don't
care how far below Dayton is on your coolness
list. I don't care if you feel my work sucks compared
to yours. I just plain dont' give a shit how much
better you are than me and all the rest of us Jesse.
You did mention the differences between modern
and contemporary though. That is an interesting
point.. one that I've been talking with my friends
about ever since I started thinking about it.
I have a collection of contemporary short stories,
where most of the artists wrote around the
end of WWII on. That means that some of
the writers in that anthology are dead now-
still, they are considered contemporary.
So being that the usage of contemporary in
literature is somewhat confusing, I sought out
a concrete definition, which basically contradicts
itself by saying many different things.
One definition does agree with what you said
in regards to Michele talking about contemporary, not
modern. But another definition of contemporary
is "Modern". Hmmmm.. hard to argue about
something with no clear definition.
The funny thing is, that if you tell me you
know the correct definition from the
university you studied at, how could I
believe people who you've already told
me are nothing but clowns.
And if you tell me that you know this by
any particular source, then what reason
do I have to believe that source when
you don't even believe Norton, a very
qualified source on the subject.
Kind of puts us in limbo, doesn't it?
Get out from behind the "You're A Moron"
guise.. it gets annoying real quick.
...Critter
LeeAnn Heringer
way. 'Jesse Garon' *is* Conan the Barbarian, free poetry anthology with
every ticket stub.
Please, please, don't make me laugh so hard, so early in the morning. It
produces the constipation of writer's block.
LeeAnn Heringer
(who thought culture in Dayton was taking a road trip to see the Firestone
tire plant in Akron and declares that from my balcony seat this mangy
critter thang is looking more and more like road kill all the time.)
'Jesse Garon' wrote:
>Critter wrote:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
LeeAnn Heringer
lee...@lexicus.mot.com
http://www.best.com/~leeannh
C. Earl Nelson
michelle -
i do not know you from adam, and i can not say that i have seen
your work. but i do agree wholeheartedly with your statement on slams.
vast differences between written word and performance art, although i
enjoy consistent pleasure with my work at readings (note: readings, not
slams).
as for academics, i have no college degree and read very little
compared to others. i am busier writing than reading others work.
academics truely have little bearing on the matter at hand.
language is learned, and manipulation of such is a gift, i believe.
still, the arguments are made, pro and con, on the importance of
academics, primarily because of the weight of ego involved in spending
large sums of cash for worthless english lit degrees, as tho one may
simply purchase a roadmap to the poetic stars.
while i do plan to return to school, it will not be based on
desired status, and most likely not related to big money either.
call it a personal hunger. for something i cant quite put my finger on.
now, before i get slammed for this, let me add that i have had
friends and lovers with major degrees from major universities who sit
quietly with long faces. they spent years in pursuit of degrees which
serve no further purpose than wall decor. some are my biggest fans.
so, i speak from some experience, albeit disjointed this point i
make.
keep the performance poetry with the actors and prostitutes.
tricks are for the witty. im not in this for the flashpan suns in my
eyes. slow and steady for me, like good lovemaking and scotch. all things
in time.
yeah. something like that.
sincerely,
nelson
--
C. Earl Nelson - poet, cultured barbarian
Come visit us @ http://www.atlantic.net/~godhead/index.html
Godhead Is Dead - A Poetry Magazine & Godhead Is Dead Press
Douglas Clark
What is all this argument about the long line when C.K.Williams
is still alive and writing. He is much copied.
--
Douglas Clark Voice: +44 1225 427104
69 Hillcrest Drive, Email: D.G.D...@bath.ac.uk
Bath, Avon, BA2 1HD, UK Benjamin Press: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc
Jesse Garon
Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM (RITTEC) wrote:
> Damn Jesse, every post of yours says one thing:
>
> Jesse it the ultimate, there is none higher.
>
> I really don't care to hear that with every one
> of your posts.
What, do you want me to LIE to you now? Tell you things that
are not so? I will not do that. From "Jesse Garon" only the
cold hard truth is available 24/7/365.
> I have a collection of contemporary short stories,
> where most of the artists wrote around the
> end of WWII on. That means that some of
> the writers in that anthology are dead now-
> still, they are considered contemporary.
Citation, please? Copyright date included, if you would.
Let's be precise. After all, *I* could say that *I* had
a book in my hand that listed Sappho as a contemporary
poet, but that wouldn't make it so.
> Get out from behind the "You're A Moron"
> guise.. it gets annoying real quick.
It's not a guise. You're a moron.
Here's a bit of Scientologist doctrine, acceptable as "fair use":
"Find some plants, trees, etc., and communicate to them
individually until you know they received your communication."
*************
I am the God damnedest mass of tact known to the human race.
G R I F T E R @ P R I M E N E T . C O M
Jesse Garon
patt...@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu (Tim Patterson) wrote:
> 'Jesse Garon' (gri...@primenet.com) wrote:
> : I deal with morons, left and right,
> : and some come from the Ivy schools.
> : But with my intellect I smite
> : Every last one of the poor fools.
> : 'Modern' is such a simple word,
> : And yet it renders them confused.
> : "Contemporary", so they've heard,
> : Could just as correctly be used.
> : Command of English have they none,
> : Their debate ends ere it's begun.
> :
> The Cockerel
>
> The cockerel sat on the barnyard fence
> Cock-a-doodling his own worth
> His tiny ego all puffed up
> As he looked over his small turf
> "I am the king", his small brain thought
> "There is none to compare with me"
> His chest swelled with self-importance
> His pride bloated with vanity
> Even now he would be there
> Crowing out his fame
> Except I cooked him for my lunch
> And that's the end of that game :)
Well, your poem IS two lines longer than mine, but you only have
three rhyming pairs, as opposed to my FIVE. I win.
Also, your sense of rhythm sucks.
DonWild GooseChase
: [a cut, ribbons of electronic paper]
: keep the performance poetry with the actors and prostitutes.
: tricks are for the witty. im not in this for the flashpan suns in my
: eyes. slow and steady for me, like good lovemaking and scotch. all things
: in time.
: [a little bit more]
: sincerely,
: nelson
Greetings Mr. Nelson,
I'm afraid I'm going to take a contrary stance here. Performance
poetry, and acting, is not a "trick" that someone "witty" spins out like
some one-liner from a cheap comedian. Acting, and performance poetry,
can be subtle, deep, and without ego. Yes, much is done from the flashy
"me" standing, but some performance poetry can be very moving, even when
the one performing is not. At first the direction of focus is on the
performer, but a good performer can always turn that focus around.
'til again,
Donovan Chase
GODHEAD IS DEAD
don -
i am not attacking acting, i act as well. i perform as well. musically,
sexually, socially.
poetry is purity to me. what i am saying about the grouping is that we
should simply separate the cream from the other cream. dig?
i think you follow me.
sincerely,
nelson
info: http://www.atlantic.net/~godhead
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
g o d h e a d i s d e a d
----- a poetry magazine -----
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
submissions: afn0...@freenet.ufl.edu
Critter
==========GODHEAD IS DEAD, 7/26/95==========
[text deleted]
> poetry is purity to me. what i am saying about the grouping is that we
>should simply separate the cream from the other cream. dig?
[text deleted]
I've been working on the draft of rec.arts.spoken-word proposal for a while
now. Anyone interested in moderating the group with me should send some
info on their love and knowledge of the art of spoken word so we can talk
furthur on this.
All this cream will be out of poems way soon enough.
...Critter
BTW: On top of writing, submitting, surfing the web, updating Corduroy's
Coffeehouse Culture and Literature site <http://metro.turnpike.net/C/
Critter/index.html>, working on my degree in English, reading, drafting
the rec.arts.spoken-word newsgroup, performing in the local slam
scene, and breathing in my free time..
..I'll be working on a zine called LQR (Low Q Rising) which- for those of
you who know me or are familiar with me- will mainly deal with my
interests in modern life for generation ________. It will deal with the
same things for those of you who don't know me also, but that is
a familiar interest of mine around here. Also, I am planning on getting
into the recording and mixing of spoken word, and possibly doing
some digital interpretations of poetry. Anyone who is either interested
in helping, getting involved, or just has any suggestions to what software
or people I should utilize or involve, please feel free to drop me a line.
I am always interested in working with other artists any way I can.
DonWild GooseChase
Organization: Montgomery Blair H.S.
Distribution:
GODHEAD IS DEAD (afn0...@freenet.ufl.edu) wrote:
: [deleted: previous postings of people]
: don -
:
: i am not attacking acting, i act as well. i perform as well. musically,
: sexually, socially.
: poetry is purity to me. what i am saying about the grouping is that we
: should simply separate the cream from the other cream. dig?
: i think you follow me.
: sincerely,
: nelson
: [deleted: a .sig of style]
Well, that I do follow. But I don't think that combining the two
bastardizes either. Surely there are some occasions when a synthesis can
occur, where they complement each other nicely?
Or perhaps, that is just my Not-So-Humble-But-Quite-Pretentious Opinion.
Either way...
In addition, I must say I really enjoy reading your posts on
r.a.p. Proof that civilization and civilized behavior does not
necessarily force one to become a a routine psyche. Thank you.
Donovan Chase, a goose.
Jesse Garon
Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM (RITTEC) wrote:
> There was a time when pride in one's country could take a man to war,
> die on the field, and smile with a bullet or a sword in his chest because
> death was met proudly.
Yes, and that day was destroyed by horse races. Not decent trot races,
either, but a race where they sat right down on the horse!
Kids started buckling their knickerbockers BELOW the knees, memorizing
jokes out of Captain Billy's Whiz Bang, and certain words started creeping
into their vocabulary.
Words like "swell". And "So's your old man".
> I love artists.. every man a creator, building his dream- the ultimate goal
> to him, the highest point he may reach in his life.
Chicks, too, don't forget. Oh right, I forgot. According to you, all chicks
seem to do lately is bleed and bitch.
> "You're one funny son of a bitch crapper?" What the hell is that supposed
> to mean? LeeAnne and Jesse are on the same kick.
I would *never* say that you were a funny son of a bitch.
You aren't the least bit funny.
> Is this supposed to
> mean that since I'm not from your particular cities that I'm not a good as
> you are? I never said Dayton was anything: good, bad, neutral. I simply
> said "I am from Dayton," and the wolves attacked!
Well, you're from Dayton. What do you expect?
> I couldn't care less whether Jesse thinks I'm a moron or
> Mr. Cool on ice, what reason do I have to care? He sure as hell isn't
> trying to help me in my work, he's trying to destroy me with his jabs and
> put downs.
Jabs and putdowns save the day
When Dayton poets hit the scene.
It's "Jesse Garon" and Joe Bay
Who know what true poetry means:
That rhyme is tops. Yes, rhyme's the best,
It should be used in every poem.
Now, Critter, you've been quite a pest,
But I think it's time you went home.
You talk of things you do not know.
And that is why I treat you so.
************
I am the God damnedest mass of tact known to the human race.
G R I F T E R @ P R I M E N E T . C O M
"Jesse Garon" vs. Scientology: THEY haven't got a chance!
don't miss any gory details: read alt.religion.scientology
Karl Geiger
[...]
>I love artists.. every man a creator, building his dream- the ultimate goal
>to him, the highest point he may reach in his life. But now that man cares
>more for himself and how big he can inflate his words, there is no unity-
>even amongst those of us who rise up to the challege, filling the roles
>of thinkers or philosophers in our art, it doesn't seem that we can count
>on one another anymore.
Hyperbole is fine, but whatthehellareyourtalkingabout? Were you not
so keen to play the fabled bullfrog yourself, you'd never have locked
horns with 'Jesse Garon', icon of scorn, arrogance, and paradigm of
tact.
>"You're one funny son of a bitch crapper?" What the hell is that supposed
>to mean? LeeAnne and Jesse are on the same kick. Is this supposed to
>mean that since I'm not from your particular cities that I'm not a good as
>you are? I never said Dayton was anything: good, bad, neutral. I simply
>said "I am from Dayton," and the wolves attacked! That's pitiful! If no one
>else will appreciate our creations, at least those of us that create should
>appreciate the attempt! Why is this not true to a select few around here?
>
>In my circle of artists that I swing with around Dayton, we are very much
>a union.. if not by friendship, by this appeal to art we all have in common.
>Why can't we do the same here? I don't really care about what is said
>in my regards, I couldn't care less whether Jesse thinks I'm a moron or
>Mr. Cool on ice, what reason do I have to care? He sure as hell isn't
>trying to help me in my work, he's trying to destroy me with his jabs and
>put downs.
Lessee here ... (flip, flip, flip) ... Dayton, Ohio, (1990 census data)
Population: 182,005
Density: 3,793 per sq. mi.
Growth: -5.9% (uh-oh, looks like a hot scene has cooled)
Area: 48 sq. mi.
Employment: 71,854
Unemp. Rate: 10.9%
On the map, Dayton is about equidistant from both Indianapolis and
Columbus, but is somewhat nearer to Cincinnati. Wow!
What we got here, Chris, is big-egofish, tiny-pond.
Now, I live in Eagle Rock, very unimpressive sounding, yes? If I told
you I was from adjacent Glendale (pop. 180,400) you wouldn't bat an
eye either, I'd bet. If I were to say I'm from adjacent Pasadena
(pop. 130,000) home of the Rose Parade and the granddaddy of all bowl
games, the Rose Bowl, where even teams like the OSU Buckeyes get to
play, I might get a rise out of you. BUT, Eagle Rock is really only
part of the City of Los Angeles (pop. 3,800,000), which itself is
embedded in a vast, sprawling metropolitan area over eighty miles wide
and one-hundred miles long, home to an estimated 15,000,000, with
about 19,000,000 expected by the year 2000.
That's a much bigger pond. In fact, it's a damn big pond.
Okay, so let's suppose Critter, Daytonite, Poet Extraordinaire, is in
the top...mmm...1% of the Dayton, Ohio, population, a true member of
the intelligentsia, art-type, slinking about clad in natty black
cotton shirt, black chino pants, and chic black leather jacket. This
means there's 1,800 other folks as smart or smarter than Chris Ritter,
Poet Extraordinaire, in Dayton, Ohio. Let's say the art "scene" is
really jumpin', and of the top 1%, 1% are poet-artistes. That's about
18 poets in Dayton, Ohio. Bet you know 'em all personal-like.
Critter moves to Hell Lay, where parts were 110F today. One percent
of Hell Lay's 15,000,000 is 150,000, nearly as big as the *entire
population* of Dayton, Ohio.
Now, the art scene really *is* jumpin' in Hell Lay, being the center
of the Entertainment-Industrial Complex. Folks from Des Moines and
Decatur and Detroit and even Dayton, Ohio, move out here, get crummy
jobs, and try hawking their faces or screenplays or, God help 'em,
poetry. That's a lot of art-types. It's a saturated market. It's
also a big marketplace for nifty black outfits, enough to support
neat-o stores on Melrose and in Santa Monica and Pasadena as well as a
few more tattoo parlors and at least a dozen more Starbucks Coffee
joints.
The folks that make it, can make it bigtime. Suki Levy and Haim Saban
spent *five years* schlepping their concept from distributor to
distributor before striking paydirt. Dunno who these guys are? They
own a little franchise called "Might Morphin' Power Rangers".
Most of folks don't make it, though, and they end up selling funky
hand crafted junk as "art", xeroxing cheesy booklets of verse for sale
in slimy Venice bookstores, or opening their own tattoo parlors. Or
moving back to mom and dad's place in Dayton, Ohio.
So, when 'Jesse Garon' talks art, baby, listen up. 'Jesse Garon'
knows from art, knows from Hollywood, and knows from little-fish,
big-big-big-pond.
[...]
>Still writing down his dreams: Critter
PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT
-- "The Ten-Thousand Fingers of Dr. Terwillinger"
Keep on truckin',
:Karl
Carlos May
: In article <DCEpA...@intruder.daytonoh.attgis.com>,
: Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM (RITTEC) wrote:
: > There was a time when pride in one's country could take a man to war,
: > die on the field, and smile with a bullet or a sword in his chest because
: > death was met proudly.
A smile in his chest? Sir, I must inform you that those tails
of strange men living at the antipodes with their faces in their
chests are nothing but idol gossip, unsupported by Scieonce.
Your Amphibeous Cyberpal,
Froggy
Fro...@neosoft.com * "The Information Super-Frog" [dibs]
"alt.sex.hello-kitty... Ask for it by name!"
Jesse Garon
patt...@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu (Tim Patterson) wrote:
Chris Ritter said:
> : > There was a time when pride in one's country could take a man to war,
> : > die on the field, and smile with a bullet or a sword in his chest because
> : > death was met proudly.
> Hmm...bit of an over-romaticised view of war there, Critter.
> I doubt anybody smiled with three foot of steel stuck through his
> guts. War is dirty, ignoble and sickening. No need to put a
> hollywood gloss on it.
Yeah, Chris. Nobody ever won a war by dying for his country. He won
by making the other poor dumb bastard die for HIS country.
Then I said:
> : Yes, and that day was destroyed by horse races. Not decent trot races,
> : either, but a race where they sat right down on the horse!
> Be fair. If you had been standing in the saddle for all those
> years, wouldn't your legs be tired to. They deserved to sit down
> and rest.
Is your cultural illiteracy showing, Patterson? I'm not even using
the HARD stuff here.
> : > I love artists.. every man a creator, building his dream- the ultimate
> : > goal to him, the highest point he may reach in his life.
> : Chicks, too, don't forget. Oh right, I forgot. According to you, all chicks
> : seem to do lately is bleed and bitch.
> Very crass and boorish, sir. And didn't the use of "chicks" go out
> of fashion with the beret-wearing, goate'd poets in black, roll-necked
> sweaters? Groove on, daddio!
That's "daddy-o". And this is off the record, on the Q-T, and very
hush-hush, but Chris' misogyny is plain to see. Go back and read his
reponses to Frau Tepper. My favorite was when he blamed her distinction
between "modern" and "contemporary" on her menses.
It's not good to make fun of Michele Tepper.
It's rather Bad Juju to do so, in fact.
> : You talk of things you do not know.
> : And that is why I treat you so.
>
> Wow, has anybody ever told you what a wonderful teacher you
> would make with an attitude like that? :)
"Children are stupid and must be taught smartness."
Critter
==========Crisper, 7/23/95==========
>"the Dayton scene"? what the...
>oh yeah, the Dayton scene, right up there with the Des Moines Iowa scene,
>the Sheridan Wyoming scene, the Nogales Arizona scene, not to mention the
>swinging Duluth Minnesota scene...
There was a time when pride in one's country could take a man to war,
die on the field, and smile with a bullet or a sword in his chest because
death was met proudly.
In America, that pride has fallen. Man now stands upon the words he can
spew and must boast above and beyond another to win the war.. a war
of words. It is safer, because ego is the only weapon and ego is the only
body bruised or bled.
I love artists.. every man a creator, building his dream- the ultimate goal
to him, the highest point he may reach in his life. But now that man cares
more for himself and how big he can inflate his words, there is no unity-
even amongst those of us who rise up to the challege, filling the roles
of thinkers or philosophers in our art, it doesn't seem that we can count
on one another anymore.
"You're one funny son of a bitch crapper?" What the hell is that supposed
to mean? LeeAnne and Jesse are on the same kick. Is this supposed to
mean that since I'm not from your particular cities that I'm not a good as
you are? I never said Dayton was anything: good, bad, neutral. I simply
said "I am from Dayton," and the wolves attacked! That's pitiful! If no one
else will appreciate our creations, at least those of us that create should
appreciate the attempt! Why is this not true to a select few around here?
In my circle of artists that I swing with around Dayton, we are very much
a union.. if not by friendship, by this appeal to art we all have in common.
Why can't we do the same here? I don't really care about what is said
in my regards, I couldn't care less whether Jesse thinks I'm a moron or
Mr. Cool on ice, what reason do I have to care? He sure as hell isn't
trying to help me in my work, he's trying to destroy me with his jabs and
put downs.
I dunno. Thanks to everyone who is helping the cause. I want to say
that to everyone who helps with positive feedback, joins in the
conversations with something to add, or those who are just curious
about the art most of us seem to love.
Doctorb Science
>> : Yes, and that day was destroyed by horse races. Not decent trot races,
>> : either, but a race where they sat right down on the horse!
>> Be fair. If you had been standing in the saddle for all those
>> years, wouldn't your legs be tired to. They deserved to sit down
>> and rest.
>Is your cultural illiteracy showing, Patterson? I'm not even using
>the HARD stuff here.
Stuck-up jockey-boys settin' RIGHT ON THE HORSE? Why, that makes my
blood BOIL!
>> Very crass and boorish, sir. And didn't the use of "chicks" go out
>> of fashion with the beret-wearing, goate'd poets in black, roll-necked
>> sweaters? Groove on, daddio!
Somebody inform club BOB(c) of this. And those beret-wearing, goatee'd
poets in black, roll-necked sweaters at that DAMNED CAFE DOWN THE STREET!
It's a nice place to go to look at torn-fishnet-clad women who are probably
lesbians or transvestites or some other group that wouldn't have sex with
me, but all those damned beret-wearing, goatee'd poets! Sheesh!
>It's not good to make fun of Michele Tepper.
>It's rather Bad Juju to do so, in fact.
Only if you consider being taunted for your inability to breathe
properly after having your nose fractured in six places to be "Bad Juju".
--
Sincerely,
Doctorb Science
Undergraduates Against Decency (The "b" stands for "bargain"!)
P.S. I am not a crackpot.
Doctorb Science
>Well, it's a different culture after all :) I guess you weren't impressed
>with my joke then. It was a bit lame - better shoot it :)
. . .
>Have a great weekend, Jesse :)
IF YOU CONTINUE TO POST SMILIES ON ALT.RELIGION.KIBOLOGY YOU WILL
BE SANCTIONED. HOWEVER, I CANNOT MENTION WHAT THE SANCTIONS ARE
BECAUSE (A) I POSTED ONE EARLIER AND (B) MY ISP DOES NOT ALLOW THREATS
OF "FATES WORSE THAN DEATH".
Have a nice day.
Beverley R. White
Doctorb Science <b...@er7.rutgers.edu> wrote:
[someone]
>>> Very crass and boorish, sir. And didn't the use of "chicks" go out
>>> of fashion with the beret-wearing, goate'd poets in black, roll-necked
>>> sweaters? Groove on, daddio!
>
>Somebody inform club BOB(c) of this.
<looks down and examines her trenchcoat> <examines her fedora> <examines
her low-cut off-white sweater> <examines her lack of facial hair>
What?
Doctorb Science
>>Somebody inform club BOB(c) of this.
><looks down and examines her trenchcoat> <examines her fedora> <examines
>her low-cut off-white sweater> <examines her lack of facial hair>
We all know that the fedora/trenchcoat gestalt is simply another
manifestation of the black turtleneck/beret gestalt, slightly
modified for cultural variation.
Whom are you trying to kid?
Joe "I will not say 'm*m*'"Bay
Doctorb Science
>> Some question must be burning in your head, being that you're such the
>> intellect. Tell me what you ponder.
>6) The question that burns in my head is: WHO SHOT NICE GUY EDDIE?
Stop being such an ignorant dweeb, man. Mr. White shot Nice Guy Eddie.
Mr. White, as you know, had his reflexes jacked up in Chiba.
Gardner S Trask
>b...@er6.rutgers.edu (Doctorb Science) writes:
>>gri...@primenet.com ('Jesse Garon') writes:
>>>> Some question must be burning in your head, being that you're such the
>>>> intellect. Tell me what you ponder.
>>>6) The question that burns in my head is: WHO SHOT NICE GUY EDDIE?
>>Stop being such an ignorant dweeb, man. Mr. White shot Nice Guy Eddie.
>>Mr. White, as you know, had his reflexes jacked up in Chiba.
> No way, it's clearly Mr. Pink. What the *real* question is DID MR.
>PINK GET SHOT WHEN HE LEFT THE BUILDING?!!?!1!!?!
LEAVE MY FATHER OUT OF....oh. sorry. IM "Dr. Blonde" Nevermind.
Gard "Can I be Dr. Black? Dr. Black sounds so cool" Trask
--
Gardner S. Trask III tr...@world.std.com
"First .cultered man on the Internet" alt.culture.gard-trask
rah...@sonic.net - Elf of the redwoods, sez "I don't crosspost.
I post Followups to other people's Crossposted posts on occasion."
Beverley R. White
Doctorb Science <b...@er6.rutgers.edu> wrote:
>Mr. White, as you know, had his reflexes jacked up in Chiba.
LEAVE MY FATHER OUT OF....oh. sorry. IM "Dr. White." Nevermind.
--
wedn...@tezcat.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I c a n n o t j u s t s i g h . I m u s t s a y i t .
"Lovers come and lovers go. Lovers live and die fortissimo."
Beverley R. White
Doctorb Science <b...@er6.rutgers.edu> wrote:
>wedn...@tezcat.com (Beverley R. White) writes:
>
>>>Somebody inform club BOB(c) of this.
>
>><looks down and examines her trenchcoat> <examines her fedora> <examines
>>her low-cut off-white sweater> <examines her lack of facial hair>
>
>We all know that the fedora/trenchcoat gestalt is simply another
>manifestation of the black turtleneck/beret gestalt, slightly
>modified for cultural variation.
But we don't even ACT like them.
>Whom are you trying to kid?
Congress.
>Joe "I will not say 'm*m*'"Bay
CAMEL!
- - Beverley R. White - - wedn...@tezcat.com - - w e d n e s d a y - -
pray to prolong your time in the ball of the dance of your days - M.Card
The Avocado Avenger
>gri...@primenet.com ('Jesse Garon') writes:
>>> Some question must be burning in your head, being that you're such the
>>> intellect. Tell me what you ponder.
>>6) The question that burns in my head is: WHO SHOT NICE GUY EDDIE?
>Stop being such an ignorant dweeb, man. Mr. White shot Nice Guy Eddie.
>Mr. White, as you know, had his reflexes jacked up in Chiba.
No way, it's clearly Mr. Pink. What the *real* question is DID MR.
PINK GET SHOT WHEN HE LEFT THE BUILDING?!!?!1!!?!
Stacia -- Baroness of alt.tv.rockford-files and Little Green Gerbil
............................................................................
|"I don't know what happened, one minute | (__) To err is human; to |
| we were slapping each other with meat, | (vv) moo, bovine. |
|....the next minute, it got weird.".....|...\/.....<sr...@ksu.ksu.edu>....|
Susan DeCarlo
Did the wires burp when sent and plop this stuff in here by
accident??
Somehow, somewhere, someone splashed this graffiti on the walls:
tr...@world.std.com (Gardner S Trask) wrote:
>sr...@ksu.ksu.edu (The Avocado Avenger) writes:
>>b...@er6.rutgers.edu (Doctorb Science) writes:
>>>gri...@primenet.com ('Jesse Garon') writes:
>>>>> Some question must be burning in your head, being that you're such the intellect. Tell me what you ponder.
>>>>6) The question that burns in my head is: WHO SHOT NICE GUY EDDIE?
>>>Stop being such an ignorant dweeb, man. Mr. White shot Nice Guy Eddie.
>>>Mr. White, as you know, had his reflexes jacked up in Chiba.
>> No way, it's clearly Mr. Pink. What the *real* question is DID MR.
>>PINK GET SHOT WHEN HE LEFT THE BUILDING?!!?!1!!?!
>LEAVE MY FATHER OUT OF....oh. sorry. IM "Dr. Blonde" Nevermind.
Susan DeCarlo
Critter
=========='Jesse Garon', 7/28/95==========
>You just
>keep in mind that your dick is too small to fuck with "Jesse Garon"
>and shut your goddamn mouth when you don't know what you're talking
>about, and you'll do a lot better.
You the man. (Is there enough room for all of us in here with your ego,
Jesse?) You sound a lot like a beer jock or a big headed frat boy that
has read a few poems by Shakespear and thinks he's the Golden Boy
of the Usenet.. funny, the picture on your homepage supports this.
Are you a beer jock, Jesse?
>The statement in question was:
>::Jesus H. Christ, get off your goddamned high fucking horse and act like
>::a human for fifteen seconds of your arrogant life! Are you listening to
>::yourself or is this some ragging fit of yours?
[text deleted]
>The point that I'm making here, puny twit,
Growl... me stud, you puny twit... that's cute. I like that.
>is that what you say about this woman is indicative of how you will
>treat ANY woman who disagrees with you.
Ahhhh... so in other words, since you are calling me all of those
wonderful words that someone with an ego your size limits himself
to, that EVERYONE who doesn't think like Jesse Garon is a
small dicked, puny twit.. et al, eh? Gosh Jesse, if that isn't
pulling shit out of your ass, then I'm afraid I don't know what is.
>Is that how they teach you to be a man in Dayton, Chris?
SOC 101: How To Be A Man In Dayton (Classes are being offered
right now!)
Oh, and if you'd get off this Dayton kick you'll be doing youself
a favor. Ever heard of the booming Rutherford, New Jersey scene?
Little poet by the name of William Carlos Williams was born there.
How about the huge scene in Newark, New Jersey.. that's a
slightly larger town.. Not on the level of Chicago or NY, but
still a little larger. Allen Ginsberg.. the queer that you said might
enjoy kissing your ass?
Writing in NY, LA, Chicago, etc doesn't make you an impressive
poet.. it makes you a writer in an impressive city. Impressive poetry
comes from impressive poets, not impressive cities.
[text deleted]
>To take your queries in order:
>
>1) No, I do not.
>2) TAO is bigger than the Empire State Building, and smaller than a
breadbox.
>3) No. The poem is about being the literal Emperor of Ice Cream. That's
> Emperor with one O and two Es, by the way.
>4) No. Revolution does not occur within poetry. It is used only to serve
> the needs of poetry. The Situationists knew this full well. Also, do
> not expect poetry to TAKE you anywhere.
Really? So do you consider yourself an artist of poetry, being that it does
nothing but sit on the page and look pretty? If you don't see the connection
between 'artist' and 'does nothing but sit' statements, I'll tell you.
An artist is someone who sees through this world.. beyond this world. There
is something of a world inside of him, or elsewhere. A poet- as well as any
artist- uses his craft to journey through this to the answers he asks himself
day in and day out.
If your poetry isn't taking you anywhere, you might want to consider a
more suitable ticket for your journies.
>5) Poetry is the aesthetic manipulation of language as an abstract system
> of discourse. And it rhymes.
Cute. Nice, realistic answer to the question of what it poetry. I'm sure that
the first line is exactly what you would say to this question and the second
line is something that someone else thought, being that they sound like
they came from completely different people. Or is it the other way around?
Is the first line what you read in your little text book and the second is
something you said to start another flame with your name on it?
>6) The question that burns in my head is: WHO SHOT NICE GUY EDDIE?
And this isn't something you asked just to sound cool, is it Jesse? It sure
sounds like it, being that anyone watching the movie with this question
in mind doesn't need to sit there for more than one viewing to watch all
the bullets fly in that scene and see who falls in what order by which
gun.
>There. I hope you appreciate the time I've taken away from my
>psychological warfare with L. Ron Hubbard's minions to answer
>your presumptuous post.
[text deleted]
You're too kind. Oh, and did you notice all the responces to your cool
question? It helps the group when you stop your damn flames and start
talking like a human for once.
Little advice from a Dayton man.
Jesse Garon
Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM (RITTEC) wrote:
> You the man. (Is there enough room for all of us in here with your ego,
> Jesse?) You sound a lot like a beer jock or a big headed frat boy that
> has read a few poems by Shakespear and thinks he's the Golden Boy
> of the Usenet.. funny, the picture on your homepage supports this.
> Are you a beer jock, Jesse?
Shakespeare was a good poet and all, but I got to be the Golden Boy
of the USENET by reading Adorno. Adorno was known to enjoy a beer or
two in his day without being treated like a pariah.
> >The point that I'm making here, puny twit,
> >is that what you say about this woman is indicative of how you will
> >treat ANY woman who disagrees with you.
> Ahhhh... so in other words, since you are calling me all of those
> wonderful words that someone with an ego your size limits himself
> to, that EVERYONE who doesn't think like Jesse Garon is a
> small dicked, puny twit.. et al, eh? Gosh Jesse, if that isn't
> pulling shit out of your ass, then I'm afraid I don't know what is.
Well, no. Anyone who thinks like you is a puny twit with a small
dick. There are other ways to not think like me, and those come
with different names.
And you've been using this "pulling shit out of your ass" phrase
a lot, Chris. Do you have some sort of childhood trauma that you'd
like to share with the rest of the class or something? I mean, this
anal fixation of yours is getting just a teensy bit boring. I'm very
sorry if your toilet training didn't go perfectly, but, you know,
it was nearly 25 years ago. Move on with your life.
> Oh, and if you'd get off this Dayton kick you'll be doing youself
> a favor. Ever heard of the booming Rutherford, New Jersey scene?
> Little poet by the name of William Carlos Williams was born there.
> How about the huge scene in Newark, New Jersey.. that's a
> slightly larger town.. Not on the level of Chicago or NY, but
> still a little larger. Allen Ginsberg.. the queer that you said might
> enjoy kissing your ass?
He probably would, if I let him.
And you've merely proved my point. Rutherford is better than Newark.
If Ginsberg is the best Newark has to offer, that's their loss. They
still manage to squeak JUST ahead of Dayton, though.
> Writing in NY, LA, Chicago, etc doesn't make you an impressive
> poet.. it makes you a writer in an impressive city. Impressive poetry
> comes from impressive poets, not impressive cities.
If they were impressive, they wouldn't be living in Dayton.
> >4) No. Revolution does not occur within poetry. It is used only to serve
> > the needs of poetry. The Situationists knew this full well. Also, do
> > not expect poetry to TAKE you anywhere.
> Really? So do you consider yourself an artist of poetry, being that it does
> nothing but sit on the page and look pretty? If you don't see the connection
> between 'artist' and 'does nothing but sit' statements, I'll tell you.
> An artist is someone who sees through this world.. beyond this world. There
> is something of a world inside of him, or elsewhere. A poet- as well as any
> artist- uses his craft to journey through this to the answers he asks himself
> day in and day out.
You have got to be shitting me. Do people still believe in that bourgeois
starry-eyed romantic CRAP? I thought that nonsense was over when Don
Maclean's "Vincent" fell off the charts. Oh wait, you probably saw THE
DOORS, didn't you? *sigh* That poor deluded Oliver Stone...
An artist is a person who makes art. Art is the manipulation of material
towards an aesthetic effect. This product then becomes a commodity which
is exchanged for other commodities deemed to be of similar value. This
dreamy idealism stuff is merely an embellishment which is frequently
employed in order to enhance the market value of the commodity in question.
And yes, this does apply to art based on words, before you ask.
> If your poetry isn't taking you anywhere, you might want to consider a
> more suitable ticket for your journies.
You might want to rethink your tired, outdated notion of art.
> >5) Poetry is the aesthetic manipulation of language as an abstract system
> > of discourse. And it rhymes.
> Cute. Nice, realistic answer to the question of what it poetry. I'm sure that
> the first line is exactly what you would say to this question and the second
> line is something that someone else thought, being that they sound like
> they came from completely different people. Or is it the other way around?
> Is the first line what you read in your little text book and the second is
> something you said to start another flame with your name on it?
Nope. That's what poetry is. PROSE is the aesthetic manipulation of
language as an abstract system of discourse that DOESN'T rhyme. Let's
review, shall we?
Poetry -- rhymes
Prose -- doesn't rhyme
This is all really simple stuff. You really need to clear your mind
of that pseudomystical prattle they teach you about poetry in Dayton,
kid. It might go over well out in the bush leagues, but you'll never
make it in the majors that way.
David DeLaney
>Whom are you trying to kid?
You forgot the comma after "to".
>Joe "I will not say 'm*m*'"Bay
Dave "Momo? I *loved* that book, especially the Big Flowers and the way the
turtle could only talk by [I am not making this up] *posting two-word
responses on her back*!!!" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. Disclaimer: IMHO; VRbeableURLAP
http://enigma.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David Futrelle
Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM writes:
> Ever heard of the booming Rutherford, New Jersey scene?
>Little poet by the name of William Carlos Williams was born there.
YM "Billy Dee Williams." Poet, lover, thespian.
--DF
.......................
davidFUTRELLE//futr...@interaccess.com
dimFLASH//the eZine that's dimFLASHY!
http://vip.turnpike.net/futrelle/
Jesse Garon
<futr...@interaccess.com> wrote:
> In article <DCLqs...@intruder.daytonoh.attgis.com> Critter,
> Chris....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM writes:
> > Ever heard of the booming Rutherford, New Jersey scene?
> >Little poet by the name of William Carlos Williams was born there.
>
> YM "Billy Dee Williams." Poet, lover, thespian.
Works every time.
Jesse Garon
> =========='Jesse Garon', 7/31/95==========
> >And you've merely proved my point. Rutherford is better than Newark.
> >If Ginsberg is the best Newark has to offer, that's their loss. They
> >still manage to squeak JUST ahead of Dayton, though.
> Moronic Statement #1: Ginsberg was a low-quality poet. Try backing
> this statement up a little instead of queer bashing some more. I
> would really like to see if you have enough wit to do this.
You know what I find rich? I'll tell you what I find rich. I find it
rich that every time *I* criticize that pathetic washed-up hasbeen
Allen Ginsberg, *you* decide that I'm queerbashing, even though I
only mentioned his sexuality once, and not in a way that directly
connected it to the quality of his so-called verse. I said, and I
roughly quote, "Allen Ginsberg could kiss my ass, if I didn't think
he'd get off on it." Simple state of fact.
Oh, wait, I didn't explain WHY I found this rich. I found it rich
because it comes from a little moron who runs around insinuating that
women berate him because they're "on the rag", and then runs around
accusing men who disagree with him of jacking off to photos of Dana
Carvey. And you have the NERVE to accuse me of queerbashing, Chris?
If I had said, "Ginsberg, being a faggot, was by necessity a crappy
poet," that would be queerbashing. But I say, "Ginsberg is a crappy
poet who happens to be a homosexual." Much different. It's only the
small minds they produce in the Dayton scene that can't figure out,
for the life of them, the difference.
> Moronic Statement #2: Dismissing what was said and sticking with this
> repetitive argument, your limited understanding has one again why it
> really cracks me up when YOU call ME a moron.
"Your limited understanding has one again why"? Please to explain to
me the version of the English which you are to the speaking, Chris.
I am but a simple man, and the funny language is to the confusing me.
> >You have got to be shitting me. Do people still believe in that bourgeois
> >starry-eyed romantic CRAP? I thought that nonsense was over when Don
> >Maclean's "Vincent" fell off the charts. Oh wait, you probably saw THE
> >DOORS, didn't you? *sigh* That poor deluded Oliver Stone...
>
> Moronic Statement #3: Artists who use their art to journey through
> themselves are merely romantic and delusional.
Not a moronic statement. Just the cold, hard truth. Get over it.
> Moronic Statement #4: Poets are not inspired visionaries, but slaves to the
> time clock as all jobs are. Hmmmm... really makes the art sound kind of
> dry.. I think I'll go watch some factory workers put the little plastic seal
> on a few million bottles of vitamins.
Just ONE of those factory workers does more in a day for humanity than
you, Chris Ritter, will ever accomplish with your moronic, pathetic
attempts at writing. Oh, and nice of you to insult the working man. I
guess that's a snotty visionary artist thang, innit?
I bet insulting the working man goes over REAL BIG in Dayton.
Unknown
=========='Jesse Garon', 7/31/95==========
[text deleted]
>And you've merely proved my point. Rutherford is better than Newark.
>If Ginsberg is the best Newark has to offer, that's their loss. They
>still manage to squeak JUST ahead of Dayton, though.
Moronic Statement #1: Ginsberg was a low-quality poet. Try backing
this statement up a little instead of queer bashing some more. I
would really like to see if you have enough wit to do this.
>> Writing in NY, LA, Chicago, etc doesn't make you an impressive
>> poet.. it makes you a writer in an impressive city. Impressive poetry
>> comes from impressive poets, not impressive cities.
>
>If they were impressive, they wouldn't be living in Dayton.
Moronic Statement #2: Dismissing what was said and sticking with this
repetitive argument, your limited understanding has one again why it
really cracks me up when YOU call ME a moron.
>> A poet- as well as any
>> artist- uses his craft to journey through this to the answers he asks
himself
>> day in and day out.
>
>You have got to be shitting me. Do people still believe in that bourgeois
>starry-eyed romantic CRAP? I thought that nonsense was over when Don
>Maclean's "Vincent" fell off the charts. Oh wait, you probably saw THE
>DOORS, didn't you? *sigh* That poor deluded Oliver Stone...
Moronic Statement #3: Artists who use their art to journey through
themselves are merely romantic and delusional. Sell out quick, Jesse. None
of the rest of us want your money-hungry eyes behind the pen of a poet,
or any other type of artists for the matter.
>An artist is a person who makes art. Art is the manipulation of material
>towards an aesthetic effect. This product then becomes a commodity which
>is exchanged for other commodities deemed to be of similar value. This
>dreamy idealism stuff is merely an embellishment which is frequently
>employed in order to enhance the market value of the commodity in question.
>
>And yes, this does apply to art based on words, before you ask.
Moronic Statement #4: Poets are not inspired visionaries, but slaves to the
time clock as all jobs are. Hmmmm... really makes the art sound kind of
dry.. I think I'll go watch some factory workers put the little plastic seal
on a few million bottles of vitamins.
>> If your poetry isn't taking you anywhere, you might want to consider a
>> more suitable ticket for your journies.
>
>You might want to rethink your tired, outdated notion of art.
Not a moronic statement.. just living proof that the dead do walk the earth.
>[text deleted]
>
>Nope. That's what poetry is. PROSE is the aesthetic manipulation of
>language as an abstract system of discourse that DOESN'T rhyme. Let's
>review, shall we?
>
> Poetry -- rhymes
> Prose -- doesn't rhyme
>
>This is all really simple stuff. You really need to clear your mind
>of that pseudomystical prattle they teach you about poetry in Dayton,
>kid. It might go over well out in the bush leagues, but you'll never
>make it in the majors that way.
I'm through.. this one speaks for itself! It impresses me that you can
call yourself anything on the level of "average minded" much less
the godhead that you do when you can't even acknowledge anything
but the ego cluttering up your own limited world.
Go home. Nothing more to say.
..No Sig