Aces and Eights
Fred Hicinbothem
So, what I need to know (and don't currently know) is the following:
1. From whence came the nickname???
2. Which ACES and which EIGHTS (suits)?
3. What was the fifth card in the poker hand?
This seemed to be the right place to ask!!!
ADVthanksANCE!
=Fred (rsvp to f...@potm.att.com please! - thanks!)
Myron=Meyer...@cs1.thecoo.edu
Newsgroup: rec.games.trivia
Subject: Aces and Eights
From: f...@potm.att.com (Fred Hicinbothem)
1. The dead man's hand was the poker hand held by Wild Bill Hickok when he
was shot and killed by 25 year-old drifter Jack McCall, in Nuttall and Mann's
Saloon on 10 Main Street, Deadwood, Dakota Territory on August 2, 1876.
2. Black aces and eights (clubs and spades)
3. Good question. I have five sources, and they manage to contradict each
other. Fred Worth's Complete Unabridged Super Trivia Encyclopedia (1977)
says it was the 2 of Spades. The Straight Dope by Cecil Adams (1984) agrees
that it was the 2 of Spades, but I believe that Cecil was using Fred as a
source. He quotes exactly the same information that Fred does, and also adds
that the "curse" of the dead man's hand was used in the film Stagecoach,
directed by John Ford. (In case you were wondering, there the ace of spades
was replaced with diamonds and the fifth card was the Queen of Hearts.)
My other sources are no less contradictory. Charles Panati's
Extraordinary Endings of Practically Everything and Everybody put the fifth
card at the jack of diamonds. (It also lets us in on the identities of the
other players at that fateful game: "Carl Mann, Nuttall's owner; Captain
William Massie, a former Missouri River pilot; and Charles Rich, gambler and
gunman.")
In a trivia quiz posted to this newsgroup last May, Richard Kelly
(r...@tdat.ElSegundoCA.NCR.COM) acknowledges that the fifth card is "in
dispute, but it may have been the nine of diamonds." I regret never sending
him e-mail to get his source for that. Finally, my 10th grade American
history textbook (The Americans, Houghton and Mifflin) listed still another
card, a face card which I unfortunately can't remember.
I fricking live in South Dakota, so one of these days I'll get around to
calling the Deadwood Historical Society to see if they can shed some light on
this.
Hope this helps.
Cordially,
Myron Meyer
Myron...@thecoo.edu
The University of Sioux Falls, South Dakota
http://www.thecoo.edu/~mmmeyer/
via HappyMail!
"Damn! That drifter jes' shot Wild Bill! Let's look at his cards."
Nathan Schwartz
>Aces over eights is known as the "dead man's hand" in poker.
> So, what I need to know (and don't currently know) is the following:
> 1. From whence came the nickname???
> 2. Which ACES and which EIGHTS (suits)?
> 3. What was the fifth card in the poker hand?
I can answer numbers 1 and 3, I think. Traditionally, Wild Bill Hickock sat with
his back against the wall when he played cards. One day, he broke his own
rule. Some said he was drunk before he sat down and just got sloppy. While
he was playing, someone (I don't recall who) shot him in the back. He was
holding a full house, aces over eights. It forever became known as a the dead
man's hand. Since it was a full house, all five cards are accounted for.
Three aces and two eights. At least, that's the way I heard the story.
Richard Kelly
>In article <D84IJ...@nntpa.cb.att.com>, f...@potm.att.com (Fred Hicinbothem) writes...
>>Aces over eights is known as the "dead man's hand" in poker.
>> So, what I need to know (and don't currently know) is the following:
>> 1. From whence came the nickname???
>> 2. Which ACES and which EIGHTS (suits)?
>> 3. What was the fifth card in the poker hand?
>
>
>I can answer numbers 1 and 3, I think. Traditionally, Wild Bill Hickock sat with
>his back against the wall when he played cards. One day, he broke his own
>rule. Some said he was drunk before he sat down and just got sloppy. While
>he was playing, someone (I don't recall who) shot him in the back. He was
Agreed.
>holding a full house, aces over eights. It forever became known as a the dead
>man's hand. Since it was a full house, all five cards are accounted for.
>Three aces and two eights. At least, that's the way I heard the story.
Every source I've heard agrees that it was Aces over eights (two pair), not
Aces full of eights (a full house). They also agree that it was black Aces and
black eights. The two sources which claim to know the fifth card both agree
on the nine of diamonds. I seem to recall some town (*the* town?) has "proof".
They also have a tee-shirt. Gotta love capitalism at work. :-)
FWIW.
---
Richard M Kelly Richar...@elsegundoca.attgis.com
Matt Stephans
>his back against the wall when he played cards. One day, he broke his own
>rule. Some said he was drunk before he sat down and just got sloppy. While
>he was playing, someone (I don't recall who) shot him in the back. He was
>man's hand. Since it was a full house, all five cards are accounted for.
>Three aces and two eights. At least, that's the way I heard the story.
>
>
a Hoyle book, though I can't remember which...(So I'm not really helping, am I?)
Matt Stephans mste...@mail.utexas.edu