Paradise Phantom Folds
yoyojemojo
was getting pretty bad (up to 20% at times).
One of their updates appeared to fix the problem, but yesterday I noticed
some of my hands were being folded without any intention from my end.
Then today, I noticed a few hands being folded here and there and then this
one happened. I think you'll see it's obvious, and I called $4 expressly
hoping for a 7,8,A or K to fill up and raise, but in this particular game, I
would've called with my set and people were 3-betting top pair on flush
draws etc. So I was always going to be there at the end.
Game #245552188 - $1/$2 Texas Hold'em - 2002/11/23-18:08:35 (CST)
Table "Saba (5 max)" (real money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: yessum ($115.50 in chips)
Seat 2: ashahn821 ($107.25 in chips)
Seat 3: yoyojemojo ($91.75 in chips)
Seat 5: Zero Aces ($9.25 in chips)
ashahn821: Post Small Blind ($0.50)
yoyojemojo: Post Big Blind ($1)
Dealing...
Dealt to yoyojemojo [ Kh ]
Dealt to yoyojemojo [ Kd ]
Zero Aces: Call ($1)
yessum : Call ($1)
ashahn821: Call ($0.50)
yoyojemojo: Raise ($1)
Zero Aces: Call ($1)
yessum : Call ($1)
ashahn821: Call ($1)
*** FLOP *** : [ 7d Ac Kc ]
ashahn821: Check
yoyojemojo: Bet ($1)
Zero Aces: Fold
yessum : Call ($1)
ashahn821: Call ($1)
*** TURN *** : [ 7d Ac Kc ] [ 8c ]
ashahn821: Check
yoyojemojo: Bet ($2)
yessum : Raise ($4)
ashahn821: Raise ($6)
yoyojemojo: Call ($4)
yessum : Call ($2)
*** RIVER *** : [ 7d Ac Kc 8c ] [ 7c ]
ashahn821: Bet ($2)
yoyojemojo: Fold
yessum : Call ($2)
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $32 | Rake: $1
Board: [ 7d Ac Kc 8c 7c ]
yessum lost $11 [ Ad 8d ] (two pair, aces and eights)
ashahn821 bet $11, collected $32, net +$21 (showed hand) [ Qc 3c ] (a
flush, ace high)
yoyojemojo lost $9 (folded) [ Kh Kd ] (a full house, kings full of
sevens)
My beautiful card hit - and my hand swished away across the table. You can
imagine my disgust.
yoyo
Chet
"yoyojemojo" <johnvinc...@smartchat.net.au> wrote in message
news:arp6b3$ano$1...@pinah.connect.com.au...
SNIP...........
DaveM
<johnvinc...@smartchat.net.au> wrote:
>Awhile back I was having a problem with phantom folds on Paradise, and it
>was getting pretty bad (up to 20% at times).
>*** SUMMARY ***
>Pot: $32 | Rake: $1
>Board: [ 7d Ac Kc 8c 7c ]
>yessum lost $11 [ Ad 8d ] (two pair, aces and eights)
>ashahn821 bet $11, collected $32, net +$21 (showed hand) [ Qc 3c ] (a
>flush, ace high)
>yoyojemojo lost $9 (folded) [ Kh Kd ] (a full house, kings full of
>sevens)
>My beautiful card hit - and my hand swished away across the table. You can
>imagine my disgust.
How many tables were you playing at?
If it was just the one you should be able to argue your case.
DaveM
yoyojemojo
When I complained awhile back, initially they were very
condescending/patronising - then one of the supervisors admitted they'd had
a number of similar complaints, and that it might be a fault with the
software. He advised to wait until the next version was out - which I did -
and it appeared to fix the problem.
Naturally, I've stopped playing for the time being as obviously I can't
continue to play if my hands are getting folded on the river - and I've
forwarded this to Paradise. No reply as yet, but I know they will be
patronising and of no help whatsoever.
They can't really admit that it's a software fault - and I was surprised
that the supervisor admitted such awhile back. I'm sure that honest fellow
has lost his job by now.
In any case, I'm sick and tired of Paradise - or online poker in general.
It's been a good run and I've made a bit of dough, but frankly I'm just
going to start playing live games. It's much more fun, as there are just too
many aspects of real poker missing unless you can sit there and look your
opponents in the eye.
yoyo
"Chet" <chet...@nospam.merr.com> wrote in message
news:tcVD9.26390$Hs2.3...@kent.svc.tds.net...
yoyojemojo
news:nc80uusvm8tr34rd9...@4ax.com...
> How many tables were you playing at?
> If it was just the one you should be able to argue your case.
I have played 140,000 hands on Paradise this year alone, and I always play
two tables. I could play 5 tables at once and never make a mistake like
"accidentally" folding my nut hand.
My continual annoyance is that people play so slow - it takes me less than a
second to make my play - if Paradise allowed 5 table play at once, I would
be a happy man.
But with a patronising attitude like yours, you could get a job at Paradise
Support :) - I suppose they deal with so many idiots each day, it just
becomes force of habit for them.
yoyo
yoyojemojo
Hello Mr. Vincent,
We have credited your account $32 in consideration of this fold. Please
ensure to reboot your system prior to every play session.
Regards,
Luke
Paradise Poker Support
I always restart my computer prior to every session as if you don't, the
graphics tend to go haywire after awhile. I can't continue playing with this
problem, but I must say I am VERY impressed with Paradise Support. Maybe
they've realised I'm not a scammer or a quack and that it's a legit problem.
Well done Paradise - but the problem is still there.
yoyo
"yoyojemojo" <johnvinc...@smartchat.net.au> wrote in message
news:arp6b3$ano$1...@pinah.connect.com.au...
DaveM
<johnvinc...@smartchat.net.au> wrote:
>"DaveM" <Da...@dmonaghan.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:nc80uusvm8tr34rd9...@4ax.com...
>> How many tables were you playing at?
>> If it was just the one you should be able to argue your case.
>I have played 140,000 hands on Paradise this year alone, and I always play
>two tables. I could play 5 tables at once and never make a mistake like
>"accidentally" folding my nut hand.
>But with a patronising attitude like yours, you could get a job at Paradise
>Support :) - I suppose they deal with so many idiots each day, it just
>becomes force of habit for them.
You misunderstood me. I wasn't offering an opinion as to whether I
thought you had Nobel prize winning ability at playing multiple hands or
couldn't find your ass using both of them at once. What I said was that
you'd be able to make a good case for a software fault if they couldn't
blame it on you playing multiple hands simultaneously.
I don't do subtle. When I patronise you, you'll know it.
DaveM
DaveM
<johnvinc...@smartchat.net.au> wrote:
>I just received the following reply from Paradise support.
>
>Hello Mr. Vincent,
>
>We have credited your account $32 in consideration of this fold. Please
>ensure to reboot your system prior to every play session.
>Regards,
>
>Luke
>Paradise Poker Support
>
>I always restart my computer prior to every session as if you don't, the
>graphics tend to go haywire after awhile. I can't continue playing with this
>problem, but I must say I am VERY impressed with Paradise Support. Maybe
>they've realised I'm not a scammer or a quack and that it's a legit problem.
>
>Well done Paradise - but the problem is still there.
Luke seems to be very "on the ball". I'm not sure all of the others have
English as their first language. I get the feeling that I'm getting
auto-responses to certain keywords with some of the other support staff.
DaveM
GrannyMae
>
> I don't do subtle. When I patronise you, you'll know it.
>
> DaveM
tell him he had the THIRD nut, not THE nut.. that should do it.
;-O
Granny
http://www.pokerclub.be/forum/index.php
_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
Paul S
Or mouse setup?
"yoyojemojo" <johnvinc...@smartchat.net.au> wrote in message
news:arp6b3$ano$1...@pinah.connect.com.au...
yoyojemojo
AA would've seen a preflop raise and cap. Not there. 77 was a possibility
but I don't contemplate quads as opposition in Holdem. I think I've only
ever had my boat beaten by quads once or twice in hundreds of thousands of
hands of HE. Omaha is another story of course.
yoyo
"GrannyMae" <anon...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:GDXD9.1818768$Xw1.2...@news.easynews.com...
Octo the Genarian
play
> >two tables. I could play 5 tables at once and never make a mistake like
> >"accidentally" folding my nut hand.
>
Jeez. You've played 140,000 hands this year? It seems to me like you must be
playing 20+ hours a week of microlimit.
I'm honestly curious, why? I mean if I were spending that much time playing
online, and I would if I didn't have other responsibilities, I would be
working hard to move up the limits and improve my game. If you're afraid of
collusion past the microlimits as you've indicated before, why not just play
B&M at higher stakes? I mean I can see a little microlimit action just for
fun or when you're at work or something, but 140,000 hands???
I guess I'm going to have to unkillfile you to read the answer to this one.
Abdul Jalib
"yoyojemojo" <johnvinc...@smartchat.net.au> writes:
> I just received the following reply from Paradise support.
>
> Hello Mr. Vincent,
>
> We have credited your account $32 in consideration of this fold. Please
> ensure to reboot your system prior to every play session.
> Regards,
>
> Luke
> Paradise Poker Support
>
> I always restart my computer prior to every session as if you don't, the
> graphics tend to go haywire after awhile.
Yoyojemojo, what is your system configuration and what else is running
on your computer? My guess would be Windows 95 with <=128 MB RAM and
Outlook running in the background. Those graphic glitches seem to be
caused by memory shortages. Run XP with 768 MB and nothing else
running and you should never see this happen even if you don't reboot
between sessions.
What resolution are you using?
Did your cards fly away immediately, as if it were an advance fold?
Several months ago, I mentioned the possibility of phantom folds. I
induced them accidentally while trying to design an alternate Paradise
interface (for humans, not bots), and I recognized that the same thing
could happen using Paradise's interface directly under certain
circumstances. However, I only observed this problem pre-flop. It's
a sick feeling when AA goes flying into the muck preflop when you
didn't even get the chance to do anything. This happens when a button
you pressed on the previous hand (show cards or maybe it was muck
without showing) gets delayed in the packet stream and then
interpreted differently (as an advance fold) when it appears to be
coming on the current hand on a different round. (I think you may
have to be in a blind for this to happen.) I don't necessarily think
that this is your problem, but it might be worth trying to beef up
your connection - switch to cable modem or something. Also, try not
to press any button more than once, especially show/muck. And of
course, make sure you don't directly press advance fold by accident,
which might happen if you are switching between windows due to
insufficient screen space.
Paradise should tag the commands with the hand number and round.
--
Abdul
FourFives
Now I'm beginning to think that's what happened to me a few times. I had
hands - not nut hands taht I thought I hit call but I was folded. I
assumed I made a clicking mistake but was pretty sure I hadn't. Thanks for
the alert.
BigFlopForPresto
ADB Iceman
"Abdul Jalib" <Abd...@PosEV.com> wrote in message
news:l8v8yzj...@posev.com...
>
> Paradise should tag the commands with the hand number and round.
I would suggest a TRID (Transaction ID) along with the hand and the round.
Thus each move is a 2 phase commit. Lets say you click fold and then follow
that with a raise but the raise is dropped. using this method your
application verifies the command and the TRID to say yep that is the last I
sent.
In the world of network transactions you really want to do a 2 1/2 phase
commit just in case you have a server disaster. On a second server you want
to register the transactions. If the data server goes down you at least have
a second server that has the transactions registered and you can reasonably
restore service after the reboot.
ADB ICEMAN
--
> Abdul
gee...@mindspring.com
>
>> yoyojemojo lost $9 (folded) [ Kh Kd ] (a full house, kings full of
>> sevens)
>>
>> My beautiful card hit - and my hand swished away across the table. You can
>> imagine my disgust.
>>
>> yoyo
>
>Now I'm beginning to think that's what happened to me a few times. I had
>hands - not nut hands taht I thought I hit call but I was folded. I
>assumed I made a clicking mistake but was pretty sure I hadn't. Thanks for
>the alert.
>
>
I've had the phantom fold problem on and off for all three years I've
been playing at Paradise. They have consistantly denied the problem
exists.
However, in their defense, there is one quirk that can cause the
folds. PRESSING THE SPACE BAR TOGGLES YOUR LAST CHECKED BOX ON AND
OFF! It's not too tough to accidently lean on the bar, and if fold was
your last checked box.............
There have been a couple of times I received the phantom fold when my
hands were not near the bar or mouse. Luckily this is only once or
twice a year. Still too much though.
GB
DaveM
<johnvinc...@smartchat.net.au> wrote:
>I was joking. There was a little :) in there somewhere.
I saw it. But it wasn't funny enough.
DaveM
yoyojemojo
news:l8v8yzj...@posev.com...
> on your computer? My guess would be Windows 95 with <=128 MB RAM and
> Outlook running in the background.
That's exactly what I'm running.
> Those graphic glitches seem to be
> caused by memory shortages. Run XP with 768 MB and nothing else
> running and you should never see this happen even if you don't reboot
> between sessions.
I'm taking a break from online poker for the time being. I will take your
advice and upgrade if and when I get back into it next year.
> What resolution are you using?
640x480.
> Did your cards fly away immediately, as if it were an advance fold?
Yes.
> Several months ago, I mentioned the possibility of phantom folds. I
> induced them accidentally while trying to design an alternate Paradise
> interface (for humans, not bots), and I recognized that the same thing
> could happen using Paradise's interface directly under certain
> circumstances. However, I only observed this problem pre-flop.
Up until this hand, I'd only ever had the problem pre-flop.
I'm pretty sure its a problem with my computer. Might be time to get a new
one and a new OS as well. I was very impressed nonetheless with Paradise
Support's handling of it though.
yoyo
yoyojemojo
news:arpr3l$ft$2...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
> Jeez. You've played 140,000 hands this year? It seems to me like you must
be
> playing 20+ hours a week of microlimit.
Probably a little bit over that.
> I'm honestly curious, why? I mean if I were spending that much time
playing
> online, and I would if I didn't have other responsibilities, I would be
> working hard to move up the limits and improve my game. If you're afraid
of
> collusion past the microlimits as you've indicated before, why not just
play
> B&M at higher stakes? I mean I can see a little microlimit action just for
> fun or when you're at work or something, but 140,000 hands???
I am in a city 2500kms away from home - and the only B&M games are a 10/20
and a 5/10 which I play at both every week. Apart from that, it's online
poker - and I have been very bored so I play a LOT. I'm moving back home in
a couple of weeks for good, so I'll probably never play online again. Too
many more rewarding things to do.
> I guess I'm going to have to unkillfile you to read the answer to this
one.
You can do whatever you like.
yoyo
Abdul Jalib
> "Abdul Jalib" <Abd...@PosEV.com> wrote in message
> news:l8v8yzj...@posev.com...
> > Yoyojemojo, what is your system configuration and what else is running
> > on your computer? My guess would be Windows 95 with <=128 MB RAM and
> > Outlook running in the background.
>
> That's exactly what I'm running.
Windows 95 leaks memory, and Outlook hogs memory, so you wind up with
not enough memory for Paradise, causing graphic glitches.
> I'm taking a break from online poker for the time being. I will take your
> advice and upgrade if and when I get back into it next year.
>
> > What resolution are you using?
>
> 640x480.
That's not even big enough for one Paradise table. In any case, if
you run less than like 1400x1050, then your tables will overlap and
you may accidentally click advance fold when you switch between tables
(or when it switches automatically for you just when you were clicking
on the other table.) I suggest you go with one table until you either
add a second monitor or get up to a high resolution.
--
Abdul