America [sic] Not "top threat to world peace" Shocker!!
FitzHerbert
From the text:
"'This shocking result that Israel is the greatest threat to world
peace, bigger than North Korea and Iran, defies logic and is a racist
flight of fantasy that only shows that anti-semitism is deeply
embedded within European society, more then at any other period since
the end of the war,' he [Rabbi Marvin Hier] added. "
LOL! What a twat!
Euro
"FitzHerbert" <FitzHerb...@hotmail.com>
??????:f85d58f0.03110...@posting.google.com...
That displays broad opposition to Sharon's policy rather than any kind of
feeling to the Jewish community. The important number of answers nominating
Israel as the main threat against world peace in countries that have never
been suspected of anti-semitism, like Denmark, is enough to contradict Rabbi
Marvin Hier's somewhat peremptory (but soooooooo convenient) judgement.
Let us recall that Sharon was elected (and reelected) Prime Minister of
Israel by promising the Israeli peace and security: they got none, as a
result.
Euro
j.rennie1
"Euro" <vs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:af3970a461f1e7f9...@news.meganetnews.com...
It's a promise that no prime minister of Israel can keep. Before anyone
calls me anti-Semitic or even anti-Zionist I am merely stating that 'peace
and security' in the middle east has been shattered by forces outiside
one small country's control. We can only watch while our own peace
is destroyed by the same forces.
Euro
"j.rennie1" <j.re...@ntlworld.com>
??????:8_Ppb.183$gf1.4...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
Since the murder on Rabbin, extremists on both Palestinian and Israeli sides
have won more influence and are killing the different peace processes. That
is all the more tragic, that this conflict is really threatening regional,
and maybe even, world peace.
Euro
A Planet Visitor
>
>"FitzHerbert" <FitzHerb...@hotmail.com>
>??????:f85d58f0.03110...@posting.google.com...
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1076084,00.html
>>
>> From the text:
>>
>> "'This shocking result that Israel is the greatest threat to world
>> peace, bigger than North Korea and Iran, defies logic and is a racist
>> flight of fantasy that only shows that anti-semitism is deeply
>> embedded within European society, more then at any other period since
>> the end of the war,' he [Rabbi Marvin Hier] added. "
>>
>> LOL! What a twat!
>
>That displays broad opposition to Sharon's policy rather than any kind of
>feeling to the Jewish community. The important number of answers nominating
>Israel as the main threat against world peace in countries that have never
>been suspected of anti-semitism, like Denmark, is enough to contradict Rabbi
>Marvin Hier's somewhat peremptory (but soooooooo convenient) judgement.
>
Although I knew what Ol' Racist Nev's 'take' on this would be... it's
somewhat insightful that you've concentrated on the comment of a zealot
Rabbi, while 'dismissing' the results of the poll itself. It's very convenient for
you to blame one man, Sharon, for the poll, neatly avoiding the possibility of any
anti-Semitism demonstrated in that poll. In fact, the Guardian did exactly
as you did. How handy to have a 'whipping boy' available, to avoid looking
at the poll itself.
>Let us recall that Sharon was elected (and reelected) Prime Minister of
>Israel by promising the Israeli peace and security: they got none, as a
>result.
Although Sharon is a monster, and a murderer, the idea of Israel being
a threat to world peace is absurd. In fact, the reason that the ladder of
Prime Ministers of Israel have been steadily growing more hardline, is
because Israel feels more threatened. Thus, one might blame this 'march
to madness' on the Palestinian terrorists having instilled this fear in the
general Israeli population. Every step that Israel takes... quite often vast
oversteps I agree, including atrocities I agree, are in the purpose
of a paranoia of security. Israel does not 'threaten world peace,' other
than the possibility of it being attacked in force and nuclear weapons
become a reality. Which obviously means those who might attack are
the 'real' threat to world peace.
Since you admit Sharon was elected on a platform of promising the Israelis
peace and security... there is the clear implication that the PEOPLE
represent no threat to 'world peace,'.. since they voted him in on such
a belief. Yet it is Israel that was addressed in the question itself, not
the present goverment of Sharon.
I believe rather than make EXCUSES for the poll, you should instead
recognize the implications behind that poll, which give impetus to the
realization that anti-Semitism, unfortunately, is on the rise in the EU.
The speech of that particular over-zealot Rabbi is not the issue in looking
at that poll. The poll itself is the issue. Those who attempt to focus on
that over-zealot Rabbi's words.. wish to divert attention from the meaning
of the poll itself.
In fact, it appears that a Israeli-Hezbollah prisoner exchange involving
the release of several hundred Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners
in exchange for Israeli businessman Elhanan Tannenbaum, who was
kidnapped three years ago, and the bodies of three Israeli soldiers, who
were captured and killed by Hezbollah, is about to be concluded by
the Sharon government... See
http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=F928F27B-9019-4325-A0F927B22C1A9D7A
PV
>
>Euro
Euro
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq>
??????:hecmqvci4f7ueohh5...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:59:49 GMT, "Euro" <vs...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"FitzHerbert" <FitzHerb...@hotmail.com>
> >??????:f85d58f0.03110...@posting.google.com...
> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1076084,00.html
> >>
> >> From the text:
> >>
> >> "'This shocking result that Israel is the greatest threat to world
> >> peace, bigger than North Korea and Iran, defies logic and is a racist
> >> flight of fantasy that only shows that anti-semitism is deeply
> >> embedded within European society, more then at any other period since
> >> the end of the war,' he [Rabbi Marvin Hier] added. "
> >>
> >> LOL! What a twat!
> >
> >That displays broad opposition to Sharon's policy rather than any kind of
> >feeling to the Jewish community. The important number of answers
nominating
> >Israel as the main threat against world peace in countries that have
never
> >been suspected of anti-semitism, like Denmark, is enough to contradict
Rabbi
> >Marvin Hier's somewhat peremptory (but soooooooo convenient) judgement.
> >
> Although I knew what Ol' Racist Nev's 'take' on this would be... it's
> somewhat insightful that you've concentrated on the comment of a zealot
> Rabbi, while 'dismissing' the results of the poll itself.
I don't have to "dismiss" the results of a poll.
> It's very convenient for
> you to blame one man, Sharon, for the poll, neatly avoiding the
possibility of any
> anti-Semitism demonstrated in that poll.
It's not convenient, it's logical. The poll doesn't display any
anti-semitism, but harsh criticism at Sharon's policy. Your position results
in trivializing anti-semitism. No wonder those who are really driven by
anti-semitism will thank people such as you, as when you call them
anti-semits, everyone will shrugger.
Besides, it's very convenient for you not to concentrate on Sharon's policy.
It has certainly more to do with a regional crisis that, indeed, endangers
world peace, than Europeans' views on the problem.
Euro
A Planet Visitor
Of course not... I believe that's the point. You can do anything you damn well
please with the poll. But it's YOUR character that is placed in question when
doing so. And what you did, was DISTORT the results... presuming that
'it's all Sharon's fault,' simply to white-wash the distinct possibility that the
results were an expression of anti-Semitism. Thus, I believe your attempts to
DENY that possibility are themselves an expression of anti-Semitism... a denial
of its existence... demanding that it not be seen.
>> It's very convenient for
>> you to blame one man, Sharon, for the poll, neatly avoiding the
>> possibility of any
>> anti-Semitism demonstrated in that poll.
>
>It's not convenient, it's logical.
Rubbish. You've never demonstrated the slightest hint of possessing the
ability to be logical. I clearly see it as your attempt to SHIFT the poll
question of Israel and the people of Israel to one person... Sharon.
And that's ILLOGICAL. It presumes that Israel functions under a
dictatorship... a very ugly idea in the sense of the Jewish state of Israel.
So the poll demonstrates a bias against the Jews, if Sharon IS NOT
reasoned as the cause of the results, and demonstrates a bias against the
Jews... presuming Israel is a dictatorship, if Sharon IS reasoned as the
cause of the results. It's a lose-lose situation for the Jews, apparently.
Plus, it's convenient if one wishes to 'dismiss' the possibility of a rise in
anti-Semitism in Europe.
>The poll doesn't display any
>anti-semitism, but harsh criticism at Sharon's policy. Your position results
>in trivializing anti-semitism.
Actually, sport... YOUR position tends to trivialize anti-Semitism. To
presume it does not exist ANYWHERE within the poll. But clearly
there are various sources other than the Rabbi (another 'anchor' grasped
at by anti-Semites to deny the poll means anything in respect to
European anti-Semitism), that understood the implication within that
poll. It is absurd to blame Israel for 'world peace' without recognizing
that doing so can have another meaning. While I see your denials as
part of that other meaning. How, in heaven's name do you come up
with arguing that if one recognizes anti-Semitic sentiment behind the
results of that poll it is 'trivializing' anti-Semitism? I guess you believe if it
is NEVER mentioned, that will prove it doesn't exist. Shhh....It's the
Europeans... don't mention the Jews... make sure to blame the results
on only one Jew.. Sharon.
> No wonder those who are really driven by
>anti-semitism will thank people such as you, as when you call them
>anti-semits, everyone will shrugger.
>
You certainly shrug... in denial of your own belief that the Jews are
a threat to 'world peace.' Hoping you can hide that blame you place
on the Jews, behind the policies of Sharon. Given that the policies
of Arafat suck equally. Or do you believe Arafat is a 'great leader
for world peace'?
>Besides, it's very convenient for you not to concentrate on Sharon's policy.
It's very convenient for you TO concentrate on Sharon's policy, and
deny that the poll spoke of Israel. I think I've made it abundantly clear that
Sharon is a monster and a murderer. But Israel is not a threat to 'world
peace' by any stretch of the imagination. Other than if the U.S. abandoned
its policy in support of Israel, and the Arab world took that as an opportunity
to attempt invasion and destruction of Israel (a most remote possibility),
and Israel found itself in the survival position of using nuclear weapons.
But in that case, what was the 'cause' of that threat to world peace? I'll
leave that as a question on the final exam of 'are you an anti-Semite'?
You might just as well blame the Arabs as a threat to 'world peace.' And
results from such polls give the perception of bias favoring the Arabs in
any attempts at negotiations to settle the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Israel
will see the EU going into any such negotiations already having an established
anti-Israel bias, which could very well be true. The poll demonstrates that
Europeans believe that ISRAEL... the PEOPLE... are a threat to 'world
peace.' And if you cannot see anti-Semitism behind that feeling... more's
the pity for you.
In fact, the more you deny it... the more YOU trivialize anti-Semitism... and
the more you demonstrate that you are personally opposed to the Jews.
Believing them to be a 'threat to world peace.' You know what happened
the last time the Jew was perceived as a 'threat' in Europe, don't you?
>It has certainly more to do with a regional crisis that, indeed, endangers
>world peace, than Europeans' views on the problem.
Whatever are you raving about now? Did you even READ the article,
or did you get advice on what to post from Ol' Racist Nev?
PV
>
>Euro
Euro
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq>
??????:r8frqv8pedjd2fa8v...@4ax.com...
The result wasn't an expression of anti-semitism, but a criticism at the
policy led by Israel. If Israel can be seen as a "threat to world peace" in
Europe, it is largely the responsibility of Sharon.
It would be anti-semitism if the result was something like "the Jews are the
top threat to world peace". Did you see anything that implies that in the
poll?
Of course, not, because there isn't. There is nothing that criticizes the
Jews for what they are. There is just a criticism of Israel (a country that,
by the way, does not only have a Jewish population) for what it makes.
I thus stay to my conclusion, that your rantings encourage the
trivialization of anti-semitism by applying this word to a phenomenon that
is not related.
Euro
A Planet Visitor
He said... she said. Do not presume to present your 'opinion' as some
form of dogma, euro. Given that you've already shown a deep antipathy
toward the Jews, one can hardly expect to find your 'opinion' does not
contain an element of denial of anti-Semitism in Europe, because of
your own past expressions of such anti-Semitism.
>It would be anti-semitism if the result was something like "the Jews are the
>top threat to world peace". Did you see anything that implies that in the
>poll?
Don't be absurd... the question itself would be anti-Semitic in nature,
and no person hoping to hide his 'distaste for the Jews' would ever answer
in the affirmative. It would be similar to asking a question such as
"The Americans are the top threat to world peace," rather than "The
U.S. is the top threat to world peace." The first question would
easily be recognized as bigoted if responding in the affirmative, while
the second would more easily be answered in the affirmative. Yet
both pertain to Americans. As I've pointed out before, and as you
now clearly demonstrate, Europeans tend to hide their 'distaste for
the Jews' by hiding behind the use of Israel, and presume it doesn't
really MEAN 'the Jews.' But one need only look at the flag, and the
majority of the population, and the government of that country, to
recognize that when one speaks of Israel... one speaks of the Jews.
Not ALL Jews, of course.. Jürgen tried to argue that the U.S. was
also the Jews, in his own anti-Semitism. But when one addresses the
Israeli/Palestinian conflict, one needs to not deny that it represents a
Jewish/Arab conflict in exactly the same argument. And that conflict
is the only meaning behind that poll.
I will now state that I find your attempts to 'disconnect' the Jews from
Israel in your argument, so you might attack Israel, without presuming
you are attacking the Jews, to be a clear case of 'finding an excuse' for
your anti-Semitism. You may not like my opinion, but you cannot alter
it. The more deeply this dialog goes, the more deeply I find you
committed to an anti-Jewish policy, as part of what I have recognized
is a basic 'distaste for the Jews,' from you, IMHO.
>Of course, not, because there isn't. There is nothing that criticizes the
>Jews for what they are. There is just a criticism of Israel (a country that,
>by the way, does not only have a Jewish population) for what it makes.
>
Simply excuses... nothing but excuses.
>I thus stay to my conclusion, that your rantings encourage the
>trivialization of anti-semitism by applying this word to a phenomenon that
>is not related.
>
I'm not ranting.. you are. And I'm certainly not encouraging the
trivialization of anti-Semitism in Europe.... you are. I am trying to
bring it into focus... you are attempting to deny it exists. Who then,
is trying to trivialize it? Let me say this again... and it might seem
as an insult, but I find that in every argument, you see yourself in
what I offer... and then you claim it is what you see in me. But
it clearly is what you see in yourself... twisted about, because it
remains the only defense you have to what you see in yourself.
This particular point is quite vivid here, where you claim that "I"
attempt to trivialize anti-Semitism. But that is most certainly and
absolutely what "you" attempt to do, and what is the entire thrust
of your argument. There is absolutely proof that your entire
argument here is to reduce it to NOT EXISTING in that poll.
To shift the focus of that very clear fact, first onto one person...
and then onto Israel...denying that Israel doesn't mean the Jews.
PV
>Euro
Euro
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq>
??????:grf3rv4tu1qt0nj32...@4ax.com...
Provide one URL where I expressed any anti-Semitic feeling, PV. If you
don't, we shall all conclude that, once again, you are lying.
Euro
A Planet Visitor
No sooner said than done.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=44e66b753bb7ec7a3b9748ede477b973%40news.meganetnews.com
where you express the ideas of the Nazis... and then, your post where you find that
the mention of someone being a Jew is DISGUSTING to you --
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=371eb2f897493d9d08eebeda1bf2c0d8%40news.meganetnews.com
Your anti-Semitism is clearly expressed in your disgusting insults provided in
respect to Cardinal Lustiger proudly claiming he is Jewish by birth... which you
found to be a DISGUSTING admission.
The only lie... is the Goebbels type lies you offer here in AADP. Sad... but true...
and a more pitiful sight cannot be imagined than your use of those methods and
those lies.
PV
>Euro