TR - IOA (Long)
Bob Hooley
This was our first visit there. We parked in the parking deck and then were
astonished at the distance one has to walk to get to the park entrances.
That's not a complaint; I was just surprised at the amount of space Universal
had to work with!
We were uncertain about the ticket option that would best suit our finances and
needs. We only had one day to visit. We really wanted to "do" both parks, and
didn't know if a 2-day ticket would allow park-hopping privileges or not. But
when we got there, we saw they offered a 2-park, 1-day ticket with such
privileges. So we opted for that. More on that later.
We figured we needed to hit the rides in the order we found them; we went in
the gates and turned left, so first up was Hulk. We did not arrive at opening
- it was around 11 a.m. So any opening-day rush on Hulk was probably over.
The line was 60 minutes. First we had to stash my son's camera in a locker,
due to park policies, which don't seem too customer-friendly. While I'm
pleased that the lockers are free for a limited time, they're still a pain to
get into. Robbie had to scan his fingerprint so many times, we wasted a lot of
time, and we were waiting outside the locker area so didn't know what the
problem was. Then when we got off Hulk, it didn't work then, so we couldn't
retrieve his camera without finding an employee. What a lousy system.
First, let me say that IOA is a really nice park. It's attractive, wonderfully
themed with great detail. I knew I wouldn't like the coasters. But I had to
experience the park for myself.
I would guess that I've said enough times in previous reports that I'm not a
B&M fan. I don't like their coasters. So Hulk was no big deal to me. The
launch was nothing all that special, and the rest of the ride basically just
banged my head around. Nicely set, but from 4-abreast B&M seating in anything
but the front seat, who can see anything? None of us liked it.
We grabbed a fruit cup along with some bottled water for our lunch. Next up
was Spiderman, with a 90-minute wait. I liked this ride a great deal. It's
certainly unique, and can't logically be compared to anything else. So it's
basically a one-of-a-kind, and isn't necessarily better than any other dark
ride or any other simulator. It's great. Not my favorite ride ever, but it's
an interesting experience, and long enough to be satisfying, whereas the
Indiana Jones ride (which is the only thing I can even loosely compare it to)
at Disneyland seemed too short. However, I don't think it's worth a 90 minute
wait.
Then we headed to Popeye & Bluto's Bilge Rat Barges. This, too, was a
60-minute wait. This is just too long for this type of ride. Worse, the
amount of unused queue really scared me for each of these rides. What are
waits like in this place if it's REALLY crowded? We could tell a storm was
approaching, and they started (after about 30 minutes of waiting) announcing
that the ride might have to suspend operations. Well, we were 4 boats from
getting on and sure enough, they shut down. By now it was 4:30. What with
eating lunch, wasting time with their silly lockers, and waiting for rides,
we'd spent $70 per person and had been on 2 rides. We were not real happy. I
understand the weather is not under the park's control. Don't give up on me
yet.
I also understand that we had the choice to leave the line. However, we'd give
up our place. Besides, all the other rides shut down as well. I guess we
could've gone over to Universal (with everyone else). Whether or not their
attractions operate is something I don't know. The park seemed to prefer that
we remain under shelter anyway. They allowed people to leave the line, but it
was clear that the preference was that we stay in a building. We ended up
standing there for 2 hours. Finally, the ride reopened.
Now, of course you'll remember that this is Florida - the land of sunshine and
tropical temperatures. Well, it must've dropped into the 60's after that
storm. It was downright chilly. We got on the ride, and I have to admit it
was one of the best rapids rides I've ever ridden! The water was warm - which
is good, because we got soaked! The raft spins and tips and goes over little
waterfalls and under waterfalls. We laughed and had a great time. It's long.
While it's not set as nicely as PKD's in terms of a natural setting, they went
a different direction and it all works. We had a great ride. Good once we got
off, we were shivering.
Now it was going for 7 o'clock. We'd been on 3 rides for $70. Ugh. So we
went to Jurassic Park. This was one of the rides we'd looked forward to. I
think my real expectations were somewhat lower than they were for Spiderman.
One thing I have to say in favor of Universal's parks is that they're
non-smoking parks. I like that. I don't smoke. I don't want people near me
to be blowing smoke at me. I mention this because a young teenager in front
of us ON the ride lit up a cigarette. Duh. If you can't smoke IN the park,
you can't smoke ON a ride! So my wife told him to put it out and he threw it
into the water. Anyway, the line was 10 minutes. So, we lost 2 hours during
the storm, but that storm chased most of the park's attendance away. So had
the storm not happened, the rides that we rode after the crowd left would have
had horrendous waits, so we still would only have accomplished each of the
park's major attractions once. As for Jurassic Park, it was about what I'd
expected. It somehow seemed less than I wanted - fewer dinosaurs, shorter
ride. I think Disney would've done it better.
Then we went to Dudley Do-Rite's Rip Saw Falls. I didn't know what to expect
out of that; I just knew that the speed hump at the bottom of the main drop was
calling my name. The wait was 30 minutes (remember, this was now a very chilly
evening, and it was after the crowd had left. What would this wait have been
under hot and crowded conditions? First, I loved the ride. It's at worst my
2nd favorite log flume (after Splash Mountain). I thought it was wonderful.
Long. Great drops. Fun. Exciting. I was really pleased. Aside from the
ride itself, a jerk in the boat in front of us decided to stand up. Of course,
the ride is monitored, and an announcement was made asking riders to remain
seated. Then he did it again. So there was another announcement. I saw him
then switch seats (it's a conventional log - with individual seatbacks for 5
riders in tandem seating). So they told him to stop doing that. He did it
again. I think at this point they were losing patience. The next announcement
(the words that were used escape me; it was polite but demanding) was basically
an ultimatum. Well, of course he switched again. So on the next lift he was
escorted off. I'd love to know what happened then! We got quite wet on our
ride, so we were colder still.
We needed to eat. The indoor facilities were all out of the question due to
cold air-conditioning. So we found an outdoor facility that served gyro
sandwiches (which were quite good), and my wife got a bowl of hot chili. Now
who expects to need hot chili in Florida in August?
Next up - Dueling Dragons. I know - more of the same - B&M. And it was. I
was very impressed with the theming of the queue line. And I was very grateful
that only a small fraction of it was used. Whatever were they thinking about?
It was about a 15-minute wait. I knew that the lifts were designed to allow
the trains to go off at the same time. They weren't doing a particularly
splendid job of dispatching them together. The lift chains tried to match up
the trains, but didn't always succeed. It was as though once the trains were
in the same approximate space, the chains then just kept going at regular
speed. As for the dueling, what's the point (other than for onlookers)? Maybe
it's obvious from the front seat, but it was useless in any other. I NEVER saw
the other train after the lift, and I kept looking. What a waste. We rode
both sides. I didn't detect any particular difference in ride quality. I
didn't hate the rides. They were just there. Enough of that.
Then we went to Cat in the Hat. We'd missed all the shows. It was now 9:30.
Cat in the Hat took about 30 minutes, and the park closed. I liked Cat in the
Hat. There were some serious surprises along the way! It was fun.
The entire park is visually wonderful. It's very impressive. The ride choices
are ok, but they need more coasters (for my taste). More, though, they need
MORE rides. When every ride in a park is at minimum a 60-minute wait, there's
something very wrong. I ended up leaving with some real negative feelings
against Universal, due to the ticket pricing. Had I bought a one-day ticket,
or a two-day ticket, it would've been ok. As is, I threw away $20 per person.
I cannot be happy about that. And it's the park's fault for offering a ticket
system that allows people to be deceived. Sure, I could've walked into
Universal. But I'd have never gotten to experience enough in both parks to
justify having bothered. The lines were too long, and the rides are
insufficient in number for the size of the crowds. The park can't be blamed
for the weather. But the park can be blamed for not having attractions that
can run in typical summer Florida thunderstorms. They can be blamed for not
having enough rides. And they can be blamed for offering (without some sort of
warning) a 2-park ticket for 1-day use during a busy season.
I'd never recommend that anyone buy that ticket. I'd recommend the park. I
might have trouble convincing myself to go back, though.
Bob Hooley
Visit my website:
http://members.aol.com/Bobcoaster/index.html
It has photos of defunct & current (favorite) coasters, Mr. Twister, the Boss,
"guess the coaster", "guess the park", defunct park brochures, & Roller Coaster
Tycoon parks.
Joe Schwartz
> On Tuesday, August 5, my family and I went to Islands of Adventure
> in Orlando. This was our first visit there.
[snip]
> We were uncertain about the ticket option that would best suit our
> finances and needs. We only had one day to visit. We really wanted
> to "do" both parks, and didn't know if a 2-day ticket would allow
> park-hopping privileges or not. But when we got there, we saw they
> offered a 2-park, 1-day ticket with such privileges. So we opted for
> that. More on that later.
[snip]
> I ended up leaving with some real negative feelings against Universal,
> due to the ticket pricing. Had I bought a one-day ticket, or a two-day
> ticket, it would've been ok. As is, I threw away $20 per person. I
> cannot be happy about that. And it's the park's fault for offering a
> ticket system that allows people to be deceived.
I think you had unrealistic expectations if you thought you could do
both parks in a single summer day, especially on your first visit --
unless you were planning to skip a LOT in both parks. Even if both
parks were dead empty, you'd be hard-pressed to hit most of the
attractions in one day.
A one-day park-hopper ticket makes sense for someone like me, who has
already been to both parks and just wants to revisit his favorite
attractions.
--
Come visit Joyrides -- www.joyrides.com -- a photo gallery celebrating
the joy and beauty of amusement park rides, especially roller coasters!
FlipFlopsSox
warning) a 2-park ticket for 1-day use during a busy season.
I'd never recommend that anyone buy that ticket. I'd recommend the park. I
might have trouble convincing myself to go back, though.<<
I don't ever remember the 1 day 2 park ticket option - that's great news for
someone (like me!), who goes yearly and only does the rides/attractions they
like. We've always had to get the 2 day 2 park pass and hold them until the
next year.
Andrea
It's all about the Ride
Bob Hooley
>both parks in a single summer day, especially on your first visit --
>unless you were planning to skip a LOT in both parks
The only people I know directly (with whom I'd had any conversations) who'd
been there had both told me both parks could be done fairly quickly. One
friend did both parks in 45 minutes. Granted, that was in December - but
during the busy Christmas season. So it then made sense to assume a whole day
would allow me to get all of IOA and 3 Universal attractions.
As for skipping a lot in IOA - how could I? There isn't a "lot" there to begin
with. That's part of the problem. There's basically 10 major rides (give or
take) counting a tea cup ride. Or am I missing something?
Bob Hooley
greg spalding
A minimum of a 5 minute cycle on each coaster is 15 mins, unless he didnt go
on anything!!
Must take at least half an hour to get from the car park!
"Bob Hooley" <bobco...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030814075846...@mb-m27.aol.com...
Joe Schwartz
> The only people I know directly (with whom I'd had any conversations)
> who'd been there had both told me both parks could be done fairly
> quickly. One friend did both parks in 45 minutes. Granted, that
> was in December - but during the busy Christmas season.
Then I have no idea what you and your friends mean by "doing" a park.
It would probably take me 45 minutes just to walk a complete loop
through both parks, without stopping to ride anything.
Kenny
> the gates and turned left, so first up was Hulk. We did not arrive at opening
> - it was around 11 a.m.
No, not at all. At IOA thats when the majority of people arrive.
Hulk is at its worst at that time.
>Robbie had to scan his fingerprint so many times, we wasted a lot of
> time, and we were waiting outside the locker area so didn't know what the
> problem was. Then when we got off Hulk, it didn't work then, so we couldn't
> retrieve his camera without finding an employee. What a lousy system.
While pretty much the most technologically advanced lockers in the
industry, I agree, the system blows and is unecessary. I've waited
less time for the front row of Fire than trying to get a locker at
Hulk.
> First, let me say that IOA is a really nice park. It's attractive, wonderfully
> themed with great detail. I knew I wouldn't like the coasters.
Why the negativity?
>>Hulk...None of us liked it.
I've heard "overrated", but never met someone who didn't like
it...huh.
> We grabbed a fruit cup along with some bottled water for our lunch. Next up
> was Spiderman, with a 90-minute wait. However, I don't think it's worth a 90 minute
> wait.
Damn right. I'll take every overrated comment about Hulk and transfer
it to Spiderman. It's obviously enjoyable, but you're right, not
worth 90 mins.
>Well, it must've dropped into the 60's after that
Being a native born Floridian, who is amidst a 93 degree temperature
right now, I think that's nearly impossible, espeically in August.
>As for Jurassic Park, it was about what I'd
> expected. It somehow seemed less than I wanted - fewer dinosaurs, shorter
> ride.
Agreed.
> Next up - Dueling Dragons. I know - more of the same - B&M. And it was.
C'mon man.
>was very impressed with the theming of the queue line. And I was
very grateful
> that only a small fraction of it was used. Whatever were they thinking about?
I think that que, could seriously, accomodate a 6 hour line or longer.
> It was about a 15-minute wait. I knew that the lifts were designed to allow
> the trains to go off at the same time. They weren't doing a particularly
> splendid job of dispatching them together. The lift chains tried to match up
> the trains, but didn't always succeed.
The trains are weighed beforehand. Whichever is lighter, starts a bit
before the other. See: Gravity; Newton, Isaac.
>As for the dueling, what's the point (other than for onlookers)?
Maybe
> it's obvious from the front seat, but it was useless in any other. I NEVER >saw
> the other train after the lift, and I kept looking. What a waste.
I'll give you that, for rows 2 - 8. But you broke the cardinal rule,
if you ride DD, especially if its your first / only time there, RIDE
THE FRONT ROW!!! Head and shoulders better than the other rows,
obviously. Trust me, you'll see the point of dueling. Worth the
extra 15 mins., but I know your time was getting slim. Ride the front
sometime, you'll at least move from "not hating" them to at least
thinking they're "better than low fat mayonnaise".
> I didn't hate the rides.
That's good. They're not to be hated. They're recreational.
>They were just there. Enough of that.
I repeat, c'mon man.
I hope you had a good enough time, and you should come back. Try
september - march, excluding christmas, 10 min. waits on everything,
no rain, and a constant 70 degrees.
:)
-Kenny "I need an alias so as not to get confused with the other Kenny
and Ken on here" Schmitt.
Locoboy
> > First, let me say that IOA is a really nice park. It's attractive, wonderfully
> > themed with great detail. I knew I wouldn't like the coasters.
>
> Why the negativity?
My guess...B&M. I'm actually kind of in the same territory as Bob in that I don't think
that B&M coasters are "all that." They're probably my least most liked brand of coasters
of all the ones that I have ridden. Generally speaking, I'm not a fan of multi looping
steel coasters and that's what B&M specialize in. (Admittedly they do it with different
seating arrangements and I also have not ridden any of their non looping creations so
far.)
That being said, I have been to Islands of Adventure twice and I enjoyed the park both
times. There was a lot more for me to do there besides just riding the B&M coasters so I
found other ways to keep myself occupied.
Locoboy
> As for skipping a lot in IOA - how could I? There isn't a "lot" there to begin
> with. That's part of the problem. There's basically 10 major rides (give or
> take) counting a tea cup ride. Or am I missing something?
I don't think that you're missing anything. On paper I agree with you, there
simply aren't a lot of attractions in the park. Now that I think about my two
trips there, if I didn't spend a lot of time admiring the themeing and taking lots
of photos throughout the place, I might have also run out of things to do. I enjoy
wandering around and photographing a park just as much as riding the rides though,
so I had lots of fun at Islands of Adventure.
If I wanted to visit a park and camp out on a big name attraction all day long,
Islands of Adventure would be near the bottom of the list of parks that I would
choose from. Incidentally, Silverwood, Michigan's Adventure, and Holiday World
would be at the top of that list. Though the rides at Islands of Adventure are
enjoyable for a few rides, I don't consider them "repeat rides" that I would find
enjoyable after numerous spins on them. I don't know if that was your objective
during your visit to the park, but if it was, I easily can see how you may have
been a bit disappointed.
Rastus O'Ginga
>
> The only people I know directly (with whom I'd had any conversations) who'd
> been there had both told me both parks could be done fairly quickly. One
> friend did both parks in 45 minutes.
You need a new friend. This one is nothing but a liar.
> Granted, that was in December - but
> during the busy Christmas season. So it then made sense to assume a whole day
> would allow me to get all of IOA and 3 Universal attractions.
I'd challenge someone to do more than Hulk and Jimmie Neutron in 45
minutes. Hell, I'd think it would be 45 minutes just to walk around
IOA once.
>
> As for skipping a lot in IOA - how could I? There isn't a "lot" there to begin
> with. That's part of the problem. There's basically 10 major rides (give or
> take) counting a tea cup ride. Or am I missing something?
How many major rides are at the MK?
Space, Splash, BTMRR, Mansion, Pirates, Jungle Cruise, Alien
Encounter, Buzz, Pooh, Raceway, Goofy's Barnstormer. That's 11. Add
in a few basic dark rides and kiddie rides and shows. I never
understand this bash on IOA. The only ride there that is lame is
Storm Force. Everything is at LEAST Disney quality.
IOA has Hulk, Doom, Spidey, Popeye, Dudley, JP, Unicorn, Fire, Ice,
Pseidon, Cat In the Hat. That's 11. Same as MK, and a few more than
most any other park in Orlando.
You have to give Uni another chance in the off season, you'll see the
err in your ways.
Rastus O'ginga
ttdboy
> 60-minute wait. This is just too long for this type of ride. Worse, the
> amount of unused queue really scared me for each of these rides. What are
> waits like in this place if it's REALLY crowded? We could tell a storm was
> approaching, and they started (after about 30 minutes of waiting) announcing
> that the ride might have to suspend operations. Well, we were 4 boats from
> getting on and sure enough, they shut down. By now it was 4:30. What with
> eating lunch, wasting time with their silly lockers, and waiting for rides,
> we'd spent $70 per person and had been on 2 rides.
i dont understand this. i too was at ioa last week and the park was
the busiest ive ever seen a park packed with people, 45-60 wait per
ride, and at one point spinderman and hulk was at 90, but i spent the
extra money for the express+ tickets and combined with the normal
fastpast passes in about 6 hours got on hulk 3x, spiderman once,
dragons 3x, their power tower ride, flying unicorn, all three water
rides, both suess rides, the indoor fireshow and it even
thunderstormed twice while i wasthere. i got to the park around 1030
and while i still had a day left on my park hopper from my last
florida trip i then went over to universal for a couple of hours and
did t2, shreik, men in black, and a few other things. went back to
ioa for some night rides. i can understand the guy not liking the
rides if b7ms are his thing but i cant understand how he didnt get on
many rides other than he might not know the best way to get around a
park.
ioa is an easy park to navigate to avoid lines and crowds. this was
my second visit there and still know little about the park. but
anyone that knows something about parks should be able to get on lots
of rides in a few hours. its not possible to do the park in 45 min - i
dont know who told him that but they are really wrong. but even just
using the normal express system and intelligently naviagting the park
should allow much riding in 5-6 hours on the busy days. id give
anything for cedar point to do a good fastpast system like disney or
ioa.
ttd
Bob Hooley
>in
>> the gates and turned left, so first up was Hulk. We did not arrive at
>opening
>> - it was around 11 a.m.
>
>No, not at all. At IOA thats when the majority of people arrive.
>Hulk is at its worst at that time.
>
Well, in that this was my first visit, I didn't know that.
>> First, let me say that IOA is a really nice park. It's attractive,
>wonderfully
>> themed with great detail. I knew I wouldn't like the coasters.
>
>Why the negativity?
Because I don't like B&M. I just don't like their coasters.
>>>Hulk...None of us liked it.
>
>I've heard "overrated", but never met someone who didn't like
>it...huh.
Come to Richmond and meet the 4 of us, and then you won't have to say that!!!!
>
>>Well, it must've dropped into the 60's after that
>
>Being a native born Floridian, who is amidst a 93 degree temperature
>right now, I think that's nearly impossible, espeically in August.
I don't know the actual temperature, but I think the high was only about 80
that day; and I know it dropped a lot after that storm.
>> Next up - Dueling Dragons. I know - more of the same - B&M. And it was.
>
>C'mon man.
>
>>was very impressed with the theming of the queue line. And I was
>very grateful
>> that only a small fraction of it was used. Whatever were they thinking
>about?
>
>I think that que, could seriously, accomodate a 6 hour line or longer.
>
>> It was about a 15-minute wait. I knew that the lifts were designed to
>allow
>> the trains to go off at the same time. They weren't doing a particularly
>> splendid job of dispatching them together. The lift chains tried to match
>up
>> the trains, but didn't always succeed.
>
>The trains are weighed beforehand. Whichever is lighter, starts a bit
>before the other. See: Gravity; Newton, Isaac.
>
This wasn't a "bit" before the other; this was a LOT before the other - several
times.
>>As for the dueling, what's the point (other than for onlookers)?
>Maybe
>> it's obvious from the front seat, but it was useless in any other. I NEVER
>>saw
>> the other train after the lift, and I kept looking. What a waste.
>
>I'll give you that, for rows 2 - 8. But you broke the cardinal rule,
>if you ride DD, especially if its your first / only time there, RIDE
I'm not generally a front seat rider. If this is a rule, I was unaware. I've
not heard much about IOA; I'd never been there, and I only personally knew 3
people who'd been there who'd offered any advice. The lines for the front seat
row were longer; I'd have missed Cat in a Hat had I opted to ride the front.
>THE FRONT ROW!!! Head and shoulders better than the other rows,
>obviously. Trust me, you'll see the point of dueling. Worth the
>extra 15 mins., but I know your time was getting slim. Ride the front
>sometime, you'll at least move from "not hating" them to at least
>thinking they're "better than low fat mayonnaise".
>
>> I didn't hate the rides.
>
>That's good. They're not to be hated.
I will try the front next time I'm there.
>I repeat, c'mon man.
>
I'm a wood coaster lover. I don't like looping coasters. I don't like
4-abreast seating. What's for me to like about B&M?
>I hope you had a good enough time, and you should come back. Try
>september - march, excluding christmas, 10 min. waits on everything,
>no rain, and a constant 70 degrees.
>
Perhaps I didn't make it clear that I liked the park; I just felt ripped off by
its ticket system. Had I bought a $52 ticket for one park, I'd have been
suitably impressed. However, I don't think it has as much to offer as a Disney
park, so I think charging the same as Disney is not appropriate. Had the
admission been $44 for just IOA, I'd say it was fine.
Bob Hooley
Bob Hooley
>times. There was a lot more for me to do there besides just riding the B&M
>coasters so I
>found other ways to keep myself occupied.
I would agree. However, as a coaster enthusiast, I had to ride the coasters
even when I suspected I wouldn't be impressed. I couldn't ride the other
things, bypass the coasters, and feel right about that decision!
Bob Hooley
>running only 2 trains or something?
I think they were running 3. On Dueling Dragons, 2 per track.
>> I would guess that I've said enough times in previous reports that I'm not
>a
>> B&M fan. I don't like their coasters. So Hulk was no big deal to me. The
>> launch was nothing all that special, and the rest of the ride basically
>just
>> banged my head around. Nicely set, but from 4-abreast B&M seating in
>anything
>> but the front seat, who can see anything? None of us liked it.
>
>Yeah, it's a loop machine. A very good one, but I do love the
>launch-twist combo.
>
>>
>Few things are. But Spidey is for a first timer for sure.
Well, I'd agree - that's why I stood through the line.
>> Well, of course he switched again. So on the next lift he was
>> escorted off. I'd love to know what happened then!
>
>Escorted out, while screaming some sort of racist allegations?
>
>>
>> Next up - Dueling Dragons. I know - more of the same - B&M. And it was.
>
>Now, Hulk, yes, it's nothing new really. But, DD is VERY original.
>Fire is about as unique as B&M can get, imho.
>
>> As for the dueling, what's the point (other than for onlookers)? Maybe
>> it's obvious from the front seat, but it was useless in any other. I NEVER
>saw
>> the other train after the lift, and I kept looking. What a waste.
>
>It's purely a front seat thing for the head-on, but it's WELL worth
>it.
For someone who doesn't care for anything B&M does, it's not very unique. It's
a bunch of loops in succession, in a 4-abreast seat from which I couldn't see
anything. While the track layout may be unique and the dueling may be, the
"feeling" I got was just another B&M. It's just loops and more loops and not
much that I look for in a coaster. Keep in mind, my type of coaster is 2
abreast at most, and made with wood track!
>
>>
>> The entire park is visually wonderful. It's very impressive. The ride
>choices
>> are ok, but they need more coasters (for my taste). More, though, they
>need
>> MORE rides. When every ride in a park is at minimum a 60-minute wait,
>there's
>> something very wrong.
>
>They have plenty of great rides, they just don't have filler. You
>seriously must have been there on the worst day of the Summer. I'm
>still shocked at those waits for a Tuesday.
It might well have been the worst day - I wouldn't know. What I do know is
that I didn't expect EVERY ride to have - at minimum (the storm
notwithstanding) a 60 minute wait. That's unheard of - in my experience in any
other park. The other rides might be "filler" as you say, but the filler is
what they need. When we go to typical theme parks on a busy day, the lines for
the coasters are certainly impacted by the 20 or so filler rides. They take up
some of the excess and help to distribute the crowds. That's clearly what IOA
needs for busy days in my view. I think $52 for 10-12 rides is a lot.
>> I ended up leaving with some real negative feelings
>> against Universal, due to the ticket pricing. Had I bought a one-day
>ticket,
>> or a two-day ticket, it would've been ok. As is, I threw away $20 per
>person.
>
>A one day ticket and a set of access passes (if they are still
>offered?) would have been a MUCH better investment.
Well, I didn't know. And once I'd invested the $20 for the 2nd portion of the
ticket, I just didn't have more money to toss away on the Express system.
Besides that, those tickets were gone according to the sign at Hulk. So that
was not an option.
>I REALLY think you need to give them another chance.
It might well depend on how they respond to my letter.
Bob Hooley
>extra money for the express+ tickets and combined with the normal
>fastpast passes in about 6 hours got on hulk 3x, spiderman once,
>dragons 3x, their power tower ride, flying unicorn, all three water
>rides, both suess rides, the indoor fireshow and it even
>thunderstormed twice while i wasthere. i got to the park around 1030
>and while i still had a day left on my park hopper from my last
>florida trip i then went over to universal for a couple of hours and
>did t2, shreik, men in black, and a few other things. went back to
>ioa for some night rides. i can understand the guy not liking the
>rides if b7ms are his thing but i cant understand how he didnt get on
>many rides other than he might not know the best way to get around a
>park.
>
I'm not sure I understand. Let me repeat my timing. I got there around 11:00
or so. I spent 60 minutes in line for Hulk - and that was after the locker
delay before and after the ride. So by the time I got off Hulk, It was about
12:30 or so. I got lunch. Let's say by 1:30 I was in line for Spiderman. I
didn't get on the ride until 3. I then got in line for the raft ride. The
sign said 60 minutes. It was 60 minutes after I got in line - as I was near to
boarding - that the ride shut down. The rides reopened at 6:45. I then rode
Jurassic Park (15 minutes), Rip Saw Falls (30 minutes). So it's now after
7:30. I got dinner - so maybe lost 20 minutes there. Each side of DD took 15
minutes or more - besides the walking involved through the queue! - and then I
rode Cat in a Hat. Exactly how could I have navigated the park better? I
think I don't understand! It's not that I did the park's rides in a bad order
(that I know of); it's that the lines were all too long to get on the rides any
faster.
I didn't know anything about the park's express system. I didn't want to pay
more money. And Hulk said all the express tickets were gone for the day. I
thought that meant there were no express passes even being sold. I don't like
paying for express services anyway. I think it's wrong that a park does that.
>ioa is an easy park to navigate to avoid lines and crowds. this was
>my second visit there and still know little about the park. but
>anyone that knows something about parks should be able to get on lots
>of rides in a few hours. its not possible to do the park in 45 min - i
>dont know who told him that but they are really wrong. but even just
>using the normal express system and intelligently naviagting the park
>should allow much riding in 5-6 hours on the busy days. id give
>anything for cedar point to do a good fastpast system like disney or
>ioa.
>
I'd agree. The Disney system is the best I've seen. It's free - and it's
fair.
Bob Hooley
>It would probably take me 45 minutes just to walk a complete loop
>through both parks, without stopping to ride anything.
>
He told me that the parks tried hard to convince him to purchase an express
pass for additional money on top of his park admissions - which really annoyed
him. Then he got in and there were no lines for anything. So he said the park
tried to sell something that wasn't even needed. He rode all the major rides
with the expection of the rafts and Ripsaw Falls (it was too cold). He then
went to Universal and did the major stuff there with no lines. Maybe he
exaggerated the 45 minutes thing - I wasn't with him. He highly recommended
the park. He was just feeling they tried to extract more money from him.
I think it's perfectly possible to go to a park, to like the park, to see its
good and bad points, and still leave with some negative feelings regarding
money.
Bob Hooley
Jeff Tolotti
> I've heard "overrated", but never met someone who didn't like
> it...huh.
Add me to the list - Hulk is worthless trash. On the other hand, Fire
Dragon is my #1 steel.
> Being a native born Floridian, who is amidst a 93 degree temperature
> right now, I think that's nearly impossible, espeically in August.
The record low for August is 65 degrees, so it's very possible to be
below 70. I know I've been out at the parks after a rainstorm and was
pretty chilled!
> The trains are weighed beforehand. Whichever is lighter, starts a bit
> before the other. See: Gravity; Newton, Isaac.
The weight of the train is calculated on the lift, and adjustments are
made from there. If they're dispatched too far apart, there's not enough
time to adjust fully. It happens fairly often.
> I'll give you that, for rows 2 - 8. But you broke the cardinal rule,
> if you ride DD, especially if its your first / only time there, RIDE
> THE FRONT ROW!!! Head and shoulders better than the other rows,
> obviously. Trust me, you'll see the point of dueling.
But you'll miss the forces. As far as I'm concerned, the only seat for
Fire Dragon is back right.
Jeff
Bob Hooley
>
>Space, Splash, BTMRR, Mansion, Pirates, Jungle Cruise, Alien
>Encounter, Buzz, Pooh, Raceway, Goofy's Barnstormer. That's 11. Add
>in a few basic dark rides and kiddie rides and shows. I never
>understand this bash on IOA. The only ride there that is lame is
>Storm Force. Everything is at LEAST Disney quality.
Wait one second if you will - is this a usual "bash" on IOA? I've never heard
it. I haven't heard much about the park in general. I didn't intend it as a
bash, anyway. It was a comment about the number of rides. I think the
difference between other parks and IOA (I already said this in a separate
reply) is that other parks might have the same number of major rides, but IOA
didn't have anything else. So there's nothing for the crowds to do but to get
in the lines for the major rides and a couple of shows. On a very busy day,
it's frustrating. Even at that, if they'd just not even offered the 2-park
1-day ticket, I'd have not felt ripped off. That was their decision to offer
it. Sell it even (as I already said) with a warning that crowds might make it
impossible to see both parks, and I'd have been warned. Then it would be my
decision, and my fault.
>You have to give Uni another chance in the off season, you'll see the
>err in your ways.
I'll agree it was basically Disney quality. I just feel they didn't offer as
much quantity as Disney. No parades, no other "filler" as you previously said.
I'm not sure what my "err" was....
As for the season I visited (and I didn't get into this), I was in Florida when
I was so my wife could visit her sister, and this was the time that most
convenient for both of them, and most convenient for my church position (in
terms of vacation time). Besides, I've been to Disney in mid Fall, and felt
that with the curtailed hours and some reduced capacity on rides that there was
no real advantage. Maybe IOA is different in off season. One friend did tell
me summer ought to be ok because at least they'd be running max trains. No one
warned me about lines of 60 and more minutes. Oh, well.
Bob Hooley
Jeff Tolotti
> It might well have been the worst day - I wouldn't know. What I do
> know is that I didn't expect EVERY ride to have - at minimum (the
> storm notwithstanding) a 60 minute wait.
I would say that's normal for IOA, but only because each ride at certain
times of the day routinely gets 45-75 minute waits during peak season.
I actually feel really bad because I should have told you that the
easiest way to attack IOA is exactly opposite what seems convenient.
Since it's a circle, the front of the park is most crowded from opening
to noon, and then drops off midday. Then it picks back up some at night.
Likewise, the back of the park is dead until almost noon, then gets
slammed until about 4pm when it starts to drop off.
With that in mind, I've *seen* posted waits of up to 75 minutes for
almost all of IOA's main attractions, but I honestly don't think I've
ever waited more than 30 minutes for anything - and that's really only
for Spiderman. I used to go to the park enough that I'd hit everything I
wanted to ride with a 15 minute wait or less!
Because the park's crowd patterns are so predictable and severe (or at
least used to be, I stopped going a couple years ago), I actually like
IOA in the peak season more because I know they'll be running at better
capacity. Waits in the off season can be miserable when they're only
running one train on Fire Dragon, which is part of the reason I gave up
on the park completely...
Jeff
Rastus O'Ginga
>
>Wait one second if you will - is this a usual "bash" on IOA? I've never heard
>it. I haven't heard much about the park in general. I didn't intend it as a
>bash, anyway.
It's said a lot on the Disney groups. It was the basic talking point
that the Diznoids came up with to bash IOA from the start. Not to say
you are like them. I just think it is not true. Yes, Disney's filler
takes up folks' time, but even Disney doesn't really put filler in any
more. Hell, AK has 4 major rides and not much filler either.
Like I said, I just think you were VERY unlucky with your visit. IOA
is a phenomenal park.
One question, was Pteranadon Flyers operating?
Rastus O'Ginga
Winner of the 2nd Annual C. Montgomery Burns Award for
Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence.
"What an awful dream, 1s and 0s everywhere... I thought I saw a 2." - Bender
ANTI-BED-WETTING-LIBELRAL DISCLAIMER:
The content of this post, and all previous posts made by this user, is 100%
opinion. Any similarity between this post and the truth is purely
coincidental. Anyone who reads this post and draws conclusions about it is
doing so by their choice. How they use those conclusions to direct their
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their own cognitive abilities and is in no way related or legally binded to
this poster. NO individual, business entity, or legal authority should use
the content of this post, or any other post by the originator, in whole, or
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Bob Hooley
>It's said a lot on the Disney groups. It was the basic talking point
>that the Diznoids came up with to bash IOA from the start. Not to say
>you are like them. I just think it is not true. Yes, Disney's filler
>takes up folks' time, but even Disney doesn't really put filler in any
>more. Hell, AK has 4 major rides and not much filler either.
I never look at a Disney group - heck, I hardly usually look at RRC. I seem to
spend less time on line these days. I haven't been to AK. I'm just used to
parks that have rides of all kinds to absorb crowds. I think one of the
reasons I haven't been to AK was because I sensed it didn't have much to offer.
One thing to keep in mind - the decision to do IOA instead of a Disney park
was MINE - no one else in my family cared either way.
>Like I said, I just think you were VERY unlucky with your visit. IOA
>is a phenomenal park.
I might have been unlucky. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's phenomenal for
my taste.
>One question, was Pteranadon Flyers operating?
>
Yes, but with a maximum height restriction.
Bob
NoGodForMe
>- it was around 11 a.m. So any opening-day rush on Hulk was probably over.
>The line was 60 minutes.
Once I read this, I knew how the rest of the day would be.
This is the biggest mistake you can make arriving to the park late.
I can't stress how important it is to arrive at IOA when the gate
opens.
I'm not flaming, not making fun of you. But I am going to tell you
how it could have been, because I drive up many times during the year,
and visit both parks in a single day, and get on everything. Ready?
Arrive to the parking lot of USF at 07:45am.
Parking garage opens at 8am.
Walk to the gate of IOA, get your ticket if needed and get in line.
For IOA, the turnstiles to the left are used first, at USF the ones to
the right are used first.
At 08:45am, they let people in.
Run to Hulk, get a front seat ride, go again.
As you exit Hulk, get an express pass for noon.
Ride Spiderman, and Dr. Doom, they will be walkons.
Continue to Rip Saw Falls, 5 minute wait.
JPRA, Popeye. You'll be soaked, but dry off.
Deuling Dragons, 5 minute wait. You can even wait for the front if
you want.
Continue back to the front of the park.
Go on Dr. Doom and Spiderman using single rider lines. To use them,
go up the exit of the ride and you see them.
Use your express pass for Hulk.
It is now noon, goto USF and do some shows.
Use single rider for MIB.
If you want to see Shrek 4d, then you start your day at USF.
What you do here, is go into the park, get an express pass for Jimmy
Neutron, then get in the Shrek 4d Line, and you'll be in the first
show. It's ok to let some people ahead of you, that way you'll be in
the middle of a row. Rows 2-4 are good in the middle. Come out of
Shrek 4d, use your express pass for Jimmy Neutron, then head over to
IOA.
Wait times will be slight longer than what I said above, but it can be
done. Hulk will be 15 minutes, so will Spiderman.
You see, most people arrive IOA at 11am, just like you did. If you
can be there when the park opens at 08:45am, you get 2 hours to short
waits until the crowd arrives.
I hope this helps you. Go back, and be at the gate early, and you
have a much better time.
Bob Hooley
>have a much better time.
>
Good suggestions - I wish I'd had them before I went. However, it probably
wouldn't have helped. We were staying with my sister-in-law who lives in
Tarpon Springs. First, it's at least a 2-hour drive. Second, we had to be up
very late Monday night (day before we went). Third, she wanted to provide a
nice breakfast for us, then decided to help out by printing directions for us
from Tarpon Springs to Orlando and her printer decided to be the world's
slowest....
Oh, well.
I appreciate all the suggestions offered here by many. However, none of them
change my feeling that the park doesn't have enough to offer the crowds. I can
go to many other parks and cover everything with less effort. Should we have
to pay $52 and put this much work into it?
Bob
Locoboy
> I'm a wood coaster lover. I don't like looping coasters. I don't like
> 4-abreast seating. What's for me to like about B&M?
Oh, the needlessly tall shoulder restraints! :-D You MUST love those
because...it's a B&M!
For the record, I don't believe that anyone has to justify their personal opinions
about coasters if they differ from my own.
> Perhaps I didn't make it clear that I liked the park; I just felt ripped off by
> its ticket system. Had I bought a $52 ticket for one park, I'd have been
> suitably impressed. However, I don't think it has as much to offer as a Disney
> park, so I think charging the same as Disney is not appropriate. Had the
> admission been $44 for just IOA, I'd say it was fine.
Oh man it sounds like the ticket prices have taken a jump up since I went there
three years ago! I think I paid something like $45 for a one day IOA ticket on my
last visit.
Locoboy
> No parades, no other "filler" as you previously said.
Well, they did at one time have that Super Hero "parade" thing. If you sneezed you
would miss it. I only saw it on video though. It may have been going on when I
was there, but I blinked quite a few times during those two visits and thus I
probably missed the whole thing.
> I'm not sure what my "err" was....
You had a different opinion. Heaven forbid, you do not like B&M coasters *and* you
do not like IOA?! That's against the law! ;-)
I liked IOA but I certainly did not think it was worthy of the hype I read on here
in various trip reports before I went.
Locoboy
> I appreciate all the suggestions offered here by many. However, none of them
> change my feeling that the park doesn't have enough to offer the crowds. I can
> go to many other parks and cover everything with less effort. Should we have
> to pay $52 and put this much work into it?
No matter how much money you pay and no matter how early you show up at the gate,
they still won't have a wood coaster.
Ted Ansley
>>I think you had unrealistic expectations if you thought you could do
>>both parks in a single summer day, especially on your first visit --
>>unless you were planning to skip a LOT in both parks
>
>The only people I know directly (with whom I'd had any conversations) who'd
>been there had both told me both parks could be done fairly quickly. One
>friend did both parks in 45 minutes. Granted, that was in December - but
This person is not telling you the truth. Most big attractions, with long
queues and pre-shows will take 15-30 minutes each with NO line. It is
very hard to attactions at Disney or Universal real quickly unless you are
talking Fantasyland at the Disney parks... I've been to IoA with almost no
lines and in 1.5 hours I rode Spiderman once, Hulk once, and DD 3 times.
>during the busy Christmas season. So it then made sense to assume a whole day
>would allow me to get all of IOA and 3 Universal attractions.
>
>As for skipping a lot in IOA - how could I? There isn't a "lot" there to begin
>with. That's part of the problem. There's basically 10 major rides (give or
>take) counting a tea cup ride. Or am I missing something?
>
>Bob Hooley
--------------------------
Ted Ansley
ans...@usa.com
RollerCoaster Fan<atic>
Evil One
lines and in 1.5 hours I rode Spiderman once, Hulk once, and DD 3 times.>>
Which is very funny because Island's of Adventure is easily doable in 2 hours
on a slow day (assume you skip Poseidon or Sinbad, which in themselves are
about 20 minutes each.)
The Universal Parks do not need full days in the slow season. That's not to
"down" the parks, but they just don't take nearly as much time to do. No rides
at IoA even have preshows that are not apart of the moving queue line itself,
so I really don't understand what your point is about that one...
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
>>How many major rides are at the MK?
>>
>>Space, Splash, BTMRR, Mansion, Pirates, Jungle Cruise, Alien
>>Encounter, Buzz, Pooh, Raceway, Goofy's Barnstormer. That's 11. Add
>>in a few basic dark rides and kiddie rides and shows. I never
>>understand this bash on IOA. The only ride there that is lame is
>>Storm Force. Everything is at LEAST Disney quality.
>
>Wait one second if you will - is this a usual "bash" on IOA? I've never heard
>it. I haven't heard much about the park in general. I didn't intend it as a
>bash, anyway. It was a comment about the number of rides. I think the
>difference between other parks and IOA (I already said this in a separate
>reply) is that other parks might have the same number of major rides, but IOA
>didn't have anything else. So there's nothing for the crowds to do but to get
>in the lines for the major rides and a couple of shows. On a very busy day,
>it's frustrating. Even at that, if they'd just not even offered the 2-park
>1-day ticket, I'd have not felt ripped off. That was their decision to offer
>it. Sell it even (as I already said) with a warning that crowds might make it
>impossible to see both parks, and I'd have been warned. Then it would be my
>decision, and my fault.
>
Well, here's my take on all of this, as someone who has visited IOA MANY
times. (I have a season pass, even though I live in Boston!)
When you're an enthusiast, you should do a little homework before visiting
any major park in the summer. And IOA is a MAJOR park. It has a higher
attendance than just about any non-Disney park.
It's possible to do just about everything there -- IF you do your homework
and have a plan.
Here's what you SHOULD have done. Not as a lecture or a scolding, but as a
possible plan for next time. Or advice for anyone else wanting to visit
when they're busy.
First off, when visiting ANY major park in the US in the summer, it's
always a good idea to arrive BEFORE opening time. If you had done this at
IOA, I guarantee you could have done half of the attractions in the park by
the time you actually arrived, at least if you had followed my plan.
It should be noted that you arrived 2 full hours after the park opened --
in the summer. That's 18% of the operating hours already passed by, by the
time you arrived, hoping to visit both parks. Again, not to scold you, but
to make the point that if you HAD arrived early, it would have been very
possible to see most of the attractions at both parks in one day, even if
it was busy.
I decided to post my plan under a separate message because it was so long,
and because more people who might want to use it might see it that way.
Look for the separate post entitled "David's plan for beating the lines at
IOA!" for some suggestions for riding EVERYTHING at IOA in a short period
of time!
>>You have to give Uni another chance in the off season, you'll see the
>>err in your ways.
>
>I'll agree it was basically Disney quality. I just feel they didn't offer as
>much quantity as Disney. No parades, no other "filler" as you previously said.
> I'm not sure what my "err" was....
If you walk around, you'll actually find that there is quite a bit of
"filler", especially in kids play areas. Me Ship the Olive, the Jurassic
Park Discovery Center and If I Ran the Zoo are wonderful interactive areas
for kids of all ages.
>As for the season I visited (and I didn't get into this), I was in Florida when
>I was so my wife could visit her sister, and this was the time that most
>convenient for both of them, and most convenient for my church position (in
>terms of vacation time). Besides, I've been to Disney in mid Fall, and felt
>that with the curtailed hours and some reduced capacity on rides that there was
>no real advantage. Maybe IOA is different in off season. One friend did tell
>me summer ought to be ok because at least they'd be running max trains. No one
>warned me about lines of 60 and more minutes. Oh, well.
IOA is VERY different in the off season. I've been able to ride Hulk
literally 15 or 20 times in one day before without waiting more than one
train. Same with the Dragons. I've also ridden Spider multiple times in a
day without waiting more than 5 minutes. it's not really fair to compare
IOA in the SUMMER with Disney in the FALL.
Honestly, what major theme park can you visit in the middle of the summer
without running into at least a few lines that are over an hour on their
major attractions? We're not talking about small parks here. IOA is a
major park.
As to your complaint about them offering the one day, two park pass, I
believe that it was done at the request of their guests. A whole lot of
people wanted this. (I know my friend Sean would have bought one on his
last visit!) After all, if you go during the slower times, you can EASILY
get in almost everything at both parks in one day. (I've been through all
of IOA, including multiple rerides on most major attractions, in 3-4 hours
on many occasions.) And if you'd arrived before opening time, you
probabaly still could have done so in the Summer. What should they do?
Only sell these tickets during certain months? It hardly seems fair for
people who WANT to buy them?
I'm glad that Universal has started offering this. They have finally
accepted that there are a whole lot of people who are simply going to only
allow one day for Universal on their vacation, thanks to Disney. At least
this allows them to hit up what they want to at both parks without feeling
like they're missing anything.
David Hamburger, davi...@bellatlantic.net, Boston, MA
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David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
>On 14 Aug 2003 11:58:46 GMT, bobco...@aol.com (Bob Hooley) wrote:
>
>>>I think you had unrealistic expectations if you thought you could do
>>>both parks in a single summer day, especially on your first visit --
>>>unless you were planning to skip a LOT in both parks
>>
>>The only people I know directly (with whom I'd had any conversations) who'd
>>been there had both told me both parks could be done fairly quickly. One
>>friend did both parks in 45 minutes. Granted, that was in December - but
>
>This person is not telling you the truth. Most big attractions, with long
>queues and pre-shows will take 15-30 minutes each with NO line. It is
>very hard to attactions at Disney or Universal real quickly unless you are
>talking Fantasyland at the Disney parks... I've been to IoA with almost no
>lines and in 1.5 hours I rode Spiderman once, Hulk once, and DD 3 times.
Hell, you literally could not even walk fully around both parks in 45
minutes without riding anything! It's a 20-30 minute walk from Dueling
Dragons (near the back of IOA) to Men in Black (near the back of USF.)
I've done it many times!
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
Quick question first. How long were the rides down for? You got on Spidey
at 3, and didn't get another ride until 6:45. Assuming 30 minutes to ride
Spidey and get to Bluto (probabaly high, but I'm allowing for meandering!)
and an hour waiting for Bluto, as you said, that means the rides were down
for over two hours. If that's true, then that certainly should factor into
your assessment of how much can reasonably done in a day, since there goes
another 18% of the day shot to hell! Was there nothing else you could have
done in that time? Spidey again? Head to USF, where most of the
attractions are indoors?
See my post on avoiding lines for some more specific advice. but, to be
honest, you're biggest mistake was arriving at a major Florida theme park
TWO HOURS after opening. This is a MAJOR no-no at ANY orlando theme park,
especially in the Summer. Even in the off-season, I won't visit the Disney
parks, unless I can be there at least shortly after opening. With a little
planning, you seriously could have literally gotten as many rides in in
those two hours as you ended up getting all day.
But assuming that your arrival time was necessary, for the sake of
argument, here's a few things you could have done differently to maximize
your rides and minimize your waits.
-- Hold off on Hulk The line is at its peak when you got there. Try it at
3 PM or so.
-- Leave your stuff in the lockers at the front of the park. (Or in the
car, if you don't want to pay.) This way you won't have to deal with the
lockers for EVERY ride. They're good for multiple uses for one price.
-- Use the single rider line for Spidey. This would have kept your wait to
anywhere from 0-15 minutes. I believe that there are usually very clear
signs out in front of the building for this option, but it's easy to walk
right by them. If not, ask the attendant next time. If for some reason,
this is not possible, I'd again wait until later.
-- If Bluto had an hour wait, save it for later. Wet rides tend to have
shorter lines later in the day, when it's not so hot. And if it got as
cold as you say, I bet the line for it was under 15 minutes by 7 PM!
-- Try to get ANY Universal Express tickets that are available. Any line
you can skip is one more ride you get to ride in your time there! Bluto,
perhaps, with its 60 minute wait? Or Spidey, if they were still available?
-- Do NOT eat lunch around noon-time. EVERYONE else does that! So, you'll
wait longer for food. Plus, it's a good time to ride -- when everyone else
is in line! if the park is closing at 8-9 PM, eat at 2-4 PM or so, then
have your last meal outside the park, after closing. There are tons of
restaurants on the property. And there are cheaper choices on
International Drive. And they won't keep you off of rides!
-- Wait until closer to the end of the day to ride Dueling Dragons. If
you've missed the slow early time, wait. Mid-day, the dragons have their
longest lines as everyone else makes their way back there. By the end of
the day, everyone else is in the front of the park! Then again, it seems
like you already were there late. Still, the later, the better.
-- Use the re-entry door for the Dragons for multiple lines. This saves
you the 5-15 minute walk (depending on your speed!) all the way out and
back in.
Honestly, most of this advice could have been given to you, had you asked
for help here on RRC. In fact, I've posted a LONG detailed plan here as a
result of your experience. I've posted versions of it before. Hopefully
it will help others. If people find it worthwhile and remind me, I'll try
to post it semi-regularly.
Again, this is not to chastise you. it's to show some common mistakes that
people make at IOA and other parks, to help keep others from repeating
them.
>I didn't know anything about the park's express system. I didn't want to pay
>more money. And Hulk said all the express tickets were gone for the day. I
>thought that meant there were no express passes even being sold. I don't like
>paying for express services anyway. I think it's wrong that a park does that.
Most of the rides offer FREE express passes. However, they may have been
sold out on some of the rides.
>>ioa is an easy park to navigate to avoid lines and crowds. this was
>>my second visit there and still know little about the park. but
>>anyone that knows something about parks should be able to get on lots
>>of rides in a few hours. its not possible to do the park in 45 min - i
>>dont know who told him that but they are really wrong. but even just
>>using the normal express system and intelligently naviagting the park
>>should allow much riding in 5-6 hours on the busy days. id give
>>anything for cedar point to do a good fastpast system like disney or
>>ioa.
>>
>
>I'd agree. The Disney system is the best I've seen. It's free - and it's
>fair.
Agreed. Although we can debate the fairness, since it IS possible to buy
Disney tickets that allow fastpasses with NO wait, if you're willing to pay
for them....
It should also be noted that there is a very good reason why Disney offers
free fastpasses. It increases customer spending on food and souvenirs.
And let's face it, Disney has more souvenir spending than any other parks
on the planet. So it's a bigger advantage for them than any other park.
NoGodForMe
If you think you're coming back more than once in a year, then you buy
the annual pass (AP). There was a special recenlty, 2 years for $169
with a Burger King coupon. That would easily pay for itself in 3
visits if you go to both parks.
Your sister in law was being nice, but actually hurt your trip in
terms of getting to the park early.
In my case, when I drive up, I wake up at 02:30am, and I'm on the road
at 4am. Drive time is 4 hours from South Florida. I pack a
cooler, and eat doughnuts once I reach the garage. I also have
sandwiches for lunch packed, along with drinks, beer, and booze for
later that night. In your case, you could probably wake up at 4am,
and be on the road around 05:30am, arriving the parking garage just
before 8am.
IOA/USF isn't really a park you do in a day. Rather, you book a cheap
hotel, and stay over night. There are many newer hotels at the north
end of I-Drive that are worth looking into. These are Super 8, Motel
6, Red Horse Inn, and the new Hilton Garden Inn that's still under
construction. Look for these on a street called American Way.
If you book the cheap hotel, you can visit IOA in the morning, go to
your hotel in the afternoon, check in, rest, come back to the park,
and have some happy hour drinks at Nascar Cafe.
The next day you would visit USF until the afternoon, then drive home.
Most of the time, I'll stay two nights, and visit BGT or SWF since I
have an AP for them too. If you visit BGT, that would be your woodie
fix with Gwazi.
If you arrive to the park early, and stay overnight at a hotel, your
visit will be much different. It's more relaxing, and you can
appreciate the theaming of the parks more. If you're there for 1 day
and then leave, it's over so fast.
One time I drove up on a Friday morning, visited IOA, then drove back
that night. It was over too fast, didn't enjoy. From now on, I
always stay at least 1 night, usually 2. Heck, 1 night isn't even
enough, because then you're checking out the next morning.
Come back in October for HHN. Park has light crowds in the morning,
and then at night they do all the scary stuff. For this, I usually
stay 2 nights, doing HHN at IOA, and then Howl-O-Scream at BGT.
The money is worth it when you have a good time.
Jeff Tolotti
> See my post on avoiding lines for some more specific advice. but, to
> be honest, you're biggest mistake was arriving at a major Florida
> theme park TWO HOURS after opening. This is a MAJOR no-no at ANY
> orlando theme park, especially in the Summer.
I disagree. I have never been to IOA earlier than 11am, ever, including
many many peak-season visits. And I never had a problem getting on just
about everything (when I wanted to do so).
The only Orlando park I consider imperative to hit close to opening is
Animal Kingdom.
Jeff
Rastus O'Ginga
<locoboy5...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Bob Hooley wrote:
>
>> No parades, no other "filler" as you previously said.
>
>Well, they did at one time have that Super Hero "parade" thing. If you sneezed you
>would miss it. I only saw it on video though. It may have been going on when I
>was there, but I blinked quite a few times during those two visits and thus I
>probably missed the whole thing.
Yeah, but the guy playing Spider-man for that (at least the day I was
there) was PHENOMENAL!!! He knew the character inside and out and WAS
Spider-man. IT was really just a M&G, they all came out on 4-wheelers
and went to their designated signing position.
Joe Campanella
"Bob Hooley" <bobco...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030814075846...@mb-m27.aol.com...
> The only people I know directly (with whom I'd had any conversations)
who'd
> been there had both told me both parks could be done fairly quickly. One
> friend did both parks in 45 minutes.
No offense really, but I don't know who is the bigger dumbass: Your friend
for telling you that, or you for believing him.
Hell, Terminator 2's show *alone* is twenty minutes! If you literally
walked on to every single major attraction at both parks and didn't even
stop for food I guarantee you couldn't get it all done within two hours.
> As for skipping a lot in IOA - how could I? There isn't a "lot" there to
begin
> with. That's part of the problem. There's basically 10 major rides (give
or
> take) counting a tea cup ride. Or am I missing something?
See, that's the thing about IOA...every ride there is worth riding IMO. I
think perhaps my least fav attraction (besides the horrible dinosaur walk
through) is Storm Force, but other than that, there's not one attraction I'd
want to skip during my visit. I believe there's about 15 or so said
attractions, which is quite more than a lot of other parks have (rides that
I actually care to ride, that is)!
Mike Kallay
ras...@kingwoodXXXXXcable.net says...
> It's said a lot on the Disney groups. It was the basic talking point
> that the Diznoids came up with to bash IOA from the start. Not to say
> you are like them. I just think it is not true. Yes, Disney's filler
> takes up folks' time, but even Disney doesn't really put filler in any
> more. Hell, AK has 4 major rides and not much filler either.
>
It's a zoo. The zoo is the filler. The rides complement the animals and
beautiful grounds that typify a great zoo.
They do put filler in. Look at Disney Seas.
But, I think IOA could stand to benefit from some filler. It's what
keeps the crowds going back to Disneyland year in and out.
--
Mike Kallay
kal...@ghostrider.org
www.ghostrider.org for all your Flyfishing needs!
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men." --
Willy Wonka
Mike Kallay
bobco...@aol.com says...
> I would agree. However, as a coaster enthusiast, I had to ride the coasters
> even when I suspected I wouldn't be impressed. I couldn't ride the other
> things, bypass the coasters, and feel right about that decision!
>
Preconceived opinions are a bitch.
I read your IOA TR expecting not to like it. And I didn't. I hope you
don't plan on publishing this crap in Ace News. It always surprises me
that they let you put your oddly personal complaining in there.
You set yourself up for a bad day: from your outlook all the way to the
duping you inflicted on yourself for buying a park hopper. Knowing the
distance between gates alone, I would not have ponied up for that. I
think Joe has it right on -- that ticket only benefits park veterans who
want to selectively sample their favorite attractions. It would work
great for me, because I think MIB is the best thing at the Resort, but I
don't want to spend the entire day at the studio park.
Bob Hooley
>for telling you that, or you for believing him.
No offense, huh?
Well, that's a very strange way of "not offending" someone.
Personally, I take it as an offense. Learn better ways of not offending.
Bob Hooley
Mike Kallay
ras...@kingwoodcable.net says...
> Now, Hulk, yes, it's nothing new really. But, DD is VERY original.
> Fire is about as unique as B&M can get, imho.
>
You've not been on Talon, Top Gun, Alpengeist, Nemesis, or Great Bear?
Fire is pretty standard B&M in my book.
Bob Hooley
First, I had no idea of the love so many of you have for IOA. I haven't
followed anything about IOA on here. So I didn't know of this love affair.
I'm sorry to have been uninformed. It's clear I struck some very tender
nerves. The funny thing is that I didn't intend to - if I'd considered
anything in my TR to be controversial, I'd have expected it to be my dislike of
B&M.
I never said I didn't like the park. I did like the park. Notice that I said
I liked all the rides (except the B&M). I only said I left with some negative
feelings because of the ticket option (that could have come with some sort of
warning about crowding and the possible inability to get to both parks).
That's it.
I do appreciate the many suggestions on how to tackle the park next time. I
guess I appreciate less the suggestions that I should have been prepared, etc.,
etc. I told my wife of some of that; her response? "This was a family
vacation, not a military operation". I tend to agree with her. And splitting
up my family so we can do the single rider thing? Makes sense to save time,
but...
What all of the suggestions and "how-to's" confirm for me is that there is a
problem with this park. The same problem I experienced. There's not enough to
do there for the number of people who visit. I've never gone to any park ever
before where I planned the visit. I'm not a morning person; I rarely, rarely
arrive at opening - or (heaven forbid) before. I've never had this particular
problem before. The difference between IOA and any other park I've been to is
that any other park has some rides and attractions that have waits that are
15-20 minutes long in addition to the 60 minutes or so. In fact, in many
parks, the 60 minute wait is the exception - not the rule.
That was my only problem here - Disneyland is my favorite park on earth. There
are plenty of rides and attractions to "do" that don't take an hour per
attraction. I don't mind the hour wait for Splash Mountain or Indiana Jones.
But I expect (and have found) the waits on Haunted Mansion, Big Thunder
Mountain, Matterhorn Bobsleds, and the miscellaneous dark rides to be less than
an hour.
I can tolerate Jurassic Park, Dudley Do-Rite and the Popeye/Bluto raft ride's
having an hour wait. I can tolerate Spiderman's having a longer wait. But Cat
in the Hat? Hulk? I don't generally find I have to wait an hour for a B&M.
I don't see why I should have to split up my family, or arise at dawn JUST to
get on every ride in the park once, when all I want to ride is say 10 rides.
That's all I was saying. I think they need more there. It's a fine park. And
when I return, I won't bother with the coasters, since I don't like them and
now have the "credit", so I can see the other stuff with more ease.
I'm not trying to take away anything from the park, nor am I condemning anyone
for liking it. I don't know why I've been subjected to ridicule for having a
slightly different opinion, or for being uinformed about the park.
Keep in mind one thing, if you will - it was suggested that an enthusiast
SHOULD have been prepared.
Well, what about the GP? If the typical member of the GP arrives at 11:00 am,
and is unprepared and not forewarned, how does he or she feel when leaving?
Like it was the best park in the world? Or like it was fairly expensive for
what he or she got out of it?
One can arrive at most parks even after noon and still get on the major
attractions usually.
To answer the question about the rain, the rides were closed for about 2 1/4 to
2 1/2 hours. All the rides closed (possibly excepting Cat in the Hat and
Spiderman). However, please remember that it was clear that the park seemed to
prefer that we remain under shelter during the storm. Yes, we could have gone
to Universal or checked out those 2 attractions.
But again I'll repeat this - the rides that we rode after the storm had shorter
lines DUE to the storm. Had it not occurred, we would have waited in much
longer lines for the rest so would have come out about the same. IOA posts
some of the various ride waiting times throughout the park, so I could see that
the other rides all had lengthy waits prior to the storm.
I still think the park has a problem - and that's just my opinion. You're free
to feel otherwise - but I don't appreciate insults because I have a different
opinion.
Bob Hooley
Bob Hooley
>don't plan on publishing this crap in Ace News
And some of you wonder why I have so little respect for you?
Bob Hooley
Visit my website:
http://members.aol.com/Bobcoaster/index.html
It has photos of defunct & current (favorite) coasters, Mr. Twister, the Boss,
"guess the coaster", "guess the park", defunct park brochures, & Roller Coaster
Tycoon parks.
Bob Hooley
>
>I read your IOA TR expecting not to like it. And I didn't. I hope you
>don't plan on publishing this crap in Ace News. It always surprises me
>that they let you put your oddly personal complaining in there
If you'd prefer to take that column over with your clear lack of opinions,
please do!
Bob Hooley
Bob Hooley
>I read your IOA TR expecting not to like it. And I didn't. I hope you
>don't plan on publishing this crap in Ace News
Was this necessary? So your opinion differs. That's fine. Can't you rise
above this kind of comment, please? If I disagreed with you, I wouldn't have
said something against you in this way.
Bob Hooley
Rastus O'Ginga
<nos...@ghostrider.org> wrote:
>In article <34bojvoo3qtkiv800...@4ax.com>,
>ras...@kingwoodXXXXXcable.net says...
>> It's said a lot on the Disney groups. It was the basic talking point
>> that the Diznoids came up with to bash IOA from the start. Not to say
>> you are like them. I just think it is not true. Yes, Disney's filler
>> takes up folks' time, but even Disney doesn't really put filler in any
>> more. Hell, AK has 4 major rides and not much filler either.
>>
>
>It's a zoo. The zoo is the filler. The rides complement the animals and
>beautiful grounds that typify a great zoo.
>
>They do put filler in. Look at Disney Seas.
Which is a park that Disney did NOT pay for, they simply licensed it
really..
>But, I think IOA could stand to benefit from some filler. It's what
>keeps the crowds going back to Disneyland year in and out.
Disneyland is in a whole other ballgame. No single park, including
the MK, in Orlando can compare to it.
Rastus O'Ginga
<nos...@ghostrider.org> wrote:
>In article <5deb1669.03081...@posting.google.com>,
>ras...@kingwoodcable.net says...
>> Now, Hulk, yes, it's nothing new really. But, DD is VERY original.
>> Fire is about as unique as B&M can get, imho.
>>
>
>You've not been on Talon, Top Gun, Alpengeist, Nemesis, or Great Bear?
>Fire is pretty standard B&M in my book.
I may compare to Great Bear or Talon, or Nemisis perhaps, I haven't
ridden them. Not Alpie though. Alpie is VERY standard B&M loop
order. Fire stands out imho because it has no cobra roll (I hate
those), the unique piroet thingy that is VERY intense, and it has
breathing room between loops (a BIG plus in my book). All fairly
unique attributes.
Ted Ansley
>In article <5deb1669.03081...@posting.google.com>,
>ras...@kingwoodcable.net says...
>> Now, Hulk, yes, it's nothing new really. But, DD is VERY original.
>> Fire is about as unique as B&M can get, imho.
>>
>
>You've not been on Talon, Top Gun, Alpengeist, Nemesis, or Great Bear?
>Fire is pretty standard B&M in my book.
I disagree quite strongly with the DD comparison to other B&M inverteds. DD
is clearly a much differenct design then the others AND it has some of the
strongest G's of any B&M inverted, if not the strongest. Not only that is has
a few great features and an interesting layout.
As a matter of fact Fire Dragon is my #1 looping coaster, the only looper in
my top ten steel.
Mike Kallay
bobco...@aol.com says...
It is necessary. I've seen you repeatedly come on here and wax negative
about a park, largely because of operations. Knotts & DCA come to mind.
Then, you almost VERBATIM submit the same TR to ACE News for your
"column."
Isn't part of the reason ACE exists is to act as a promoter or friend to
the industry? If so, then what purpose does it provide to post negative
personal opinions in a club publication?
Frankly, your column is one reason why I question my renewal each year
to ACE. It's the most visible crack in the joke that is ACE News.
To see how it should be done, get your hands on a copy of First Drop
from Justin at the ECC. There's a consistently positive, informative,
well written, chock full of timely news publication that is deserving of
my duckets.
No personal offense. It's not your fault. It's the fault of ACE and more
specifically the editor that lets you turn in stuff that's barely suited
for freeform online distribution let alone printed and mailed to 1,000's
of paying members.
Frankly, I don't care what you thought of IOA. I think the place is
vastly overrated. But, with the havoc you wreaked on yourself, what with
bad planning and negative expectations, I have no empathy for you. And,
the responses you got here were more because of the later, not because
of your opinion of the park. Don't pull a Rouse on us...
/Mike
Mike Kallay
bobco...@aol.com says...
> If you'd prefer to take that column over with your clear lack of opinions,
> please do!
I have opinions. My opinion of your article in that publication is that
it is unprofessional and not respectful of the club's purpose. That
space would be better used for practically anything else. The editor and
maybe even yourself have clearly dropped the ball on it.
Of course, you could always change your negative tone and write an
original article not previously posted verbatim to RRC. That would help.
I have simple requests as a paying subscriber to ACE publications:
timely information, interesting photos, club news. There's more than
enough bitching on here to last a lifetime, and it's free and without
space constraints.
Just my $.02, of course.
/mike
Rastus O'Ginga
<nos...@ghostrider.org> wrote:
>
>Isn't part of the reason ACE exists is to act as a promoter or friend to
>the industry? If so, then what purpose does it provide to post negative
>personal opinions in a club publication?
Becasuse criticism will make a park realize its problems? ACE is too
much of a park mouthpiece as it is, and you want it to be even more
so?
>
>Frankly, your column is one reason why I question my renewal each year
>to ACE. It's the most visible crack in the joke that is ACE News.
Yeah, I base my $50 a year on 5% of the content of ACE news too.
>
>To see how it should be done, get your hands on a copy of First Drop
>from Justin at the ECC. There's a consistently positive, informative,
>well written, chock full of timely news publication that is deserving of
>my duckets.
FD is great, but it sure as hell ain't all positive. I think Justin
is VERY fair in his reviews and holds no punches when parks deserve
it. I beleive he ripped on SFMM quite a bit in his TRs from their
tour of the US last year. ACE, on the other hand, put glowing reports
about probably the worst Con ever. Someone who wasn't on RRC would
just think it was another Boffo success for ACE. Which is why the
subterfuge platforms get folks elected.
>
>No personal offense. It's not your fault. It's the fault of ACE and more
>specifically the editor that lets you turn in stuff that's barely suited
>for freeform online distribution let alone printed and mailed to 1,000's
>of paying members.
Do you have any clue about Bob's history?
>
>Frankly, I don't care what you thought of IOA. I think the place is
>vastly overrated. But, with the havoc you wreaked on yourself, what with
>bad planning and negative expectations, I have no empathy for you. And,
>the responses you got here were more because of the later, not because
>of your opinion of the park. Don't pull a Rouse on us...
Granted, Bob did a huge "D'oh" for buying the two park one day pass
and arriving at 11, but he still has every right to post on here, or
submit to ACE.
ACE News is nothing more than a drain on volunteer time anyway. It
needs a massive overhaul.
Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN)
news:MPG.19a75e3cb...@news-40.giganews.com...
> In article <20030815200935...@mb-m10.aol.com>,
> bobco...@aol.com says...
> > >I read your IOA TR expecting not to like it. And I didn't. I hope you
> > >don't plan on publishing this crap in Ace News
> >
> > Was this necessary? So your opinion differs. That's fine. Can't you
rise
> > above this kind of comment, please? If I disagreed with you, I wouldn't
have
> > said something against you in this way.
> >
> > Bob Hooley
>
> It is necessary. I've seen you repeatedly come on here and wax negative
> about a park, largely because of operations. Knotts & DCA come to mind.
> Then, you almost VERBATIM submit the same TR to ACE News for your
> "column."
Bob is like me in some ways. He will tell the good with the bad. I don't
find Bob negative, I find him honest and I respect his opinion. Bob was one
of the first friends I have made through the coaster enthusiasts clubs. I
have learned a lot from him and have taken many trips based on his advice.
He is certainly a "veteran" and has many valid view points.
By the way, if I remember correctly Bob was asked by the editor to write
articles and was asked to be "himself" in writing them. I take that as he
wanted honesty.
> Isn't part of the reason ACE exists is to act as a promoter or friend to
> the industry? If so, then what purpose does it provide to post negative
> personal opinions in a club publication?
I personally don't have any respect for a club that would only publish
positive things about a park. That takes away credibility. If a club or
person only says good things then I would know not to believe everything
they say. I want to hear the positive as well as the negative of a park or
anything I do in life.
You ask what good does it do to post or publish a negative opinion? Well if
the park only hears the good things they do, then they think they are doing
everything right and may not try to improve on things that need attention.
I have read just about everything Bob has written. I think anything "not
positive" he has had to say was done with class and style. Not a "bash" in
anyway.
> Frankly, your column is one reason why I question my renewal each year
> to ACE. It's the most visible crack in the joke that is ACE News.
If you just join ACE for the publications, then you may want to question
your "coaster enthusiasim" anyway...
My personal thought is, don't read something if you don't want to. (shrug)
> To see how it should be done, get your hands on a copy of First Drop
> from Justin at the ECC. There's a consistently positive, informative,
> well written, chock full of timely news publication that is deserving of
> my duckets.
Here is some irony for you. I stopped being a member of ECC because I
didn't feel I was getting the "whole" story. But it seems you will be
happier not being a member of ACE and being a member of ECC, so maybe you
should do just that?
> No personal offense. It's not your fault. It's the fault of ACE and more
> specifically the editor that lets you turn in stuff that's barely suited
> for freeform online distribution let alone printed and mailed to 1,000's
> of paying members.
That is your opinion...
Again, if you don't like it, don't read it. Just read ECC's First Drop and
you should be on cloud nine.
> Frankly, I don't care what you thought of IOA.
Then why did you post so many "negative" posts in this thread?
And I thought you didn't like negative comments, so why did you have so many
for Bob and his articles or TRs?
> I think the place is
> vastly overrated. But, with the havoc you wreaked on yourself, what with
> bad planning and negative expectations, I have no empathy for you. And,
> the responses you got here were more because of the later, not because
> of your opinion of the park. Don't pull a Rouse on us...
>
> /Mike
I have only been to IOA one time, for a short amount of time. I went to the
Coasterphobic event back in 1999. It was before the park opened for the
first time. The park wasn't finished and we only got to ride Hulk and it
wasn't even finished (the theming that is)... So I have no real opinion of
IOA. I am going on Sept. 2nd for the first time and am looking forward to
it. I have read countless TRs of the place on RRC. I am hoping for a good
day. I have been to Universal a few times, so I already knew I wasn't going
to but the one day park hopper. But IF I was considering it before I talked
to Bob about his experience, I may have been "tricked" into it by the park
too. Now, after reading and talking to Bob about his report, I know without
any doubt I will get a one day ticket to IOA and spend the day there and now
bother with Univeral. So you see, his TR gave me and I am sure some others
very good advice.
I didn't mean to insult you if I did. I do think you should be more open
minded to reading negative thoughts as well as positive ones. In the end,
negative opinions may help the park change, and change for the better!
Danny
CoAsTeRDaN
PKD 4 ME
Http://members.aol.com/coasterdan/index.html
Http://hometown.aol.com/revolutiongoal/revolutionhome.html
# 1 Wood, The Villain, # 2 The Legend
# 1 Steel, Mindbender at West Edmonton Mall, # 2 Millennium Force
(you may have to remove "No Spam" to reply)
Flare
Bob Hooley wrote:
>No offense, huh?
>
>Well, that's a very strange way of "not offending" someone.
>
>Personally, I take it as an offense. Learn better ways of not offending.
>
Maybe, Bob, you should start by taking your OWN advice, beforing
slamming an entire State in context to a knee jerk, unsubstantiated,
narrow minded opinion.
Not to mention, the way I see it Joe wasn't being an asshole in the
least, the way he expressed his view, as there's absolutely no doubt
that your friend is/was full of sh?t with the 45 minute crack. If
anything, his remark was accurately pointed, and on the mark.
Dave
- The glass is half full, now that I can see it again!
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
wrote:
>In article <20030814185659...@mb-m25.aol.com>,
>bobco...@aol.com says...
>> I would agree. However, as a coaster enthusiast, I had to ride the coasters
>> even when I suspected I wouldn't be impressed. I couldn't ride the other
>> things, bypass the coasters, and feel right about that decision!
>>
>
>Preconceived opinions are a bitch.
>
>I read your IOA TR expecting not to like it. And I didn't. I hope you
>don't plan on publishing this crap in Ace News. It always surprises me
>that they let you put your oddly personal complaining in there.
>
>You set yourself up for a bad day: from your outlook all the way to the
>duping you inflicted on yourself for buying a park hopper. Knowing the
>distance between gates alone, I would not have ponied up for that. I
>think Joe has it right on -- that ticket only benefits park veterans who
>want to selectively sample their favorite attractions. It would work
>great for me, because I think MIB is the best thing at the Resort, but I
>don't want to spend the entire day at the studio park.
Actually, if you go in the off season, you can actually do nearly all of
the attractions at IOA and most of the attractions at USF in one day, if
you move quickly and plan things well.
I suspect that THAT is why they are now offering these passes. A lot of
people have asked for them.
And Universal can't afford to be as demanding as Disney in expecting people
to buy multi-day passes in order to park hop. They may just decide to skip
Universal altogether!
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
<ras...@kingwoodXXXXXcable.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 16:29:19 -0700, Mike Kallay
><nos...@ghostrider.org> wrote:
>
>>In article <5deb1669.03081...@posting.google.com>,
>>ras...@kingwoodcable.net says...
>>> Now, Hulk, yes, it's nothing new really. But, DD is VERY original.
>>> Fire is about as unique as B&M can get, imho.
>>>
>>
>>You've not been on Talon, Top Gun, Alpengeist, Nemesis, or Great Bear?
>>Fire is pretty standard B&M in my book.
>
>I may compare to Great Bear or Talon, or Nemisis perhaps, I haven't
>ridden them. Not Alpie though. Alpie is VERY standard B&M loop
>order. Fire stands out imho because it has no cobra roll (I hate
>those), the unique piroet thingy that is VERY intense, and it has
>breathing room between loops (a BIG plus in my book). All fairly
>unique attributes.
By the "unique piroet thingy", are you referring to the Batwing element? I
am guessing so, since it's definitely the most intense part of Fire, with
regards to G-forces.
If so, there's another one across the state at Busch Gardens Tampa, on
Montu.
I'd agree that the implementation does feel somewhat different. However, I
do think that Montu's Batwing pulls more G's, especially when the trim
brake right before it is on lightly.
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
>Well, having started some kind of war, I'm kind of surprised.
>
>First, I had no idea of the love so many of you have for IOA. I haven't
>followed anything about IOA on here. So I didn't know of this love affair.
>I'm sorry to have been uninformed. It's clear I struck some very tender
>nerves. The funny thing is that I didn't intend to - if I'd considered
>anything in my TR to be controversial, I'd have expected it to be my dislike of
>B&M.
>
Note that my comments were not directed at you in any sort of antagonizing
way. And you didn't touch a nerve with me either. I just felt that you
went into the park with unreasonable expectations. And then you blamed the
park for your unreasonable expectations not being met. And I tried to give
you -- and others reading these posts, which is why I posted it here,
rather than sending it as e-mail -- some advice on how to better try to
meet those expectations.
>I never said I didn't like the park. I did like the park. Notice that I said
>I liked all the rides (except the B&M). I only said I left with some negative
>feelings because of the ticket option (that could have come with some sort of
>warning about crowding and the possible inability to get to both parks).
>That's it.
>I do appreciate the many suggestions on how to tackle the park next time. I
>guess I appreciate less the suggestions that I should have been prepared, etc.,
>etc. I told my wife of some of that; her response? "This was a family
>vacation, not a military operation". I tend to agree with her. And splitting
>up my family so we can do the single rider thing? Makes sense to save time,
>but...
>
>What all of the suggestions and "how-to's" confirm for me is that there is a
>problem with this park. The same problem I experienced. There's not enough to
>do there for the number of people who visit. I've never gone to any park ever
>before where I planned the visit. I'm not a morning person; I rarely, rarely
>arrive at opening - or (heaven forbid) before. I've never had this particular
>problem before. The difference between IOA and any other park I've been to is
>that any other park has some rides and attractions that have waits that are
>15-20 minutes long in addition to the 60 minutes or so. In fact, in many
>parks, the 60 minute wait is the exception - not the rule.
I think that this is where I simply don't understand your expectations. I
think that you're comparing IOA to traditional parks, rather than high
thrill theme parks. I make this assumption based on your stated love for
woodies and dislike of B&M coasters.
I mean, honestly, did you really expect to see most of the attractions at
TWO major theme parks in ONE day in the peak summer season? That seems
like an unreasonable expectation to me. And it's definitely not the
expectation I's expect from someone who has been to a lot of major theme
parks.
I've been to quite a few major theme parks this year. And my experience
has been that when I go in the push of the summer busy season, that most of
the major attractions have lines of over an hour.
I went to PKI on a Friday in May -- which is not yet the busy season, and
almost every major ride had waits of 45 minutes to 1.5 hours.
Last week I was at SFMM on a weekday. X's wait was 2.5-3 hours all day.
Scream was 30 minutes. Riddler's Revenge and Goliath were around an hour
wait. Most of the other coasters were 30-60 minute waits. The only reason
I got in all the rides that I did was because I arrived early and had a
plan, (which of course started with RUNNING to X!). And it worked
brilliantly. I got in all of the major coasters -- most of them twice --
before the crowds got to them! if I hadn't done this, I'd probably have
had an annoying day.
In Denver, two weeks ago, pretty much every coaster at Six Flags Elitch
Gardens had waits of around an hour.
At Six Flags in New England, Superman runs around a 2 hour wait in the peak
of the season, and most of the other coasters run around an hour. You'll
wait around an hour for the Rapids ride, as well as a few other rides.
Most of the coasters at Cedar Point run very long lines in the summer.
At IOA, did you go on Storm Force? If I Ran the Zoo? Me Ship, the Olive?
Jurassic Park Discovery Center? I'd be willing to bet that you could have
gotten into all of those attractions in minutes.
To be honest, I'd never even try to visit any major park in the summer
without a plan. Is that a problem with these parks? No. It's just the
nature of busy parks with lots of big attractions. I wouldn't worry about
this at Knoebels or Lake Compounce.
>That was my only problem here - Disneyland is my favorite park on earth. There
>are plenty of rides and attractions to "do" that don't take an hour per
>attraction. I don't mind the hour wait for Splash Mountain or Indiana Jones.
>But I expect (and have found) the waits on Haunted Mansion, Big Thunder
>Mountain, Matterhorn Bobsleds, and the miscellaneous dark rides to be less than
>an hour.
Do you visit Disneyland in the summer? I'd imagine that a whole lot of the
rides there have very long waits. I know that at Magic Kingdom a bunch of
them do.
But here's my question: if Disney sold one day hopper passes, would you
actually expect to be able to ride EVERYTHING at Disneyland AND
California's Adventure in a day in the Summer, especially if you arrived
two hours after the parks' openings? Or everything at the Magic Kingdom
and Epcot? Not if you're being reasonable in your expectations. The same
would hold true for Universal in the Summer.
I think that one of the keys for an enthusiast to enjoy his day at any park
is to know exactly what kind of park he's visiting, and not expect it to be
something it isn't. I don't go to Lake Compounce and get upset that they
don't have dueling inverted multiloop B&M coasters. Not do I go to a Six
Flags park and expect the level of personal attention and service that we
get at Holiday World.
And going to a major chain theme park in the summer means waiting in long
lines. That's just a part of the experience, like it or not. If you have
a big problem with that, then get some advice and make a plan (like mine!)
to try to avoid those lines as best as possible. or pony up the money
(unless you're at a Disney park) for a Fastpass-type scheme.
>I can tolerate Jurassic Park, Dudley Do-Rite and the Popeye/Bluto raft ride's
>having an hour wait. I can tolerate Spiderman's having a longer wait. But Cat
>in the Hat? Hulk? I don't generally find I have to wait an hour for a B&M.
>
>I don't see why I should have to split up my family, or arise at dawn JUST to
>get on every ride in the park once, when all I want to ride is say 10 rides.
>
>That's all I was saying. I think they need more there. It's a fine park. And
>when I return, I won't bother with the coasters, since I don't like them and
>now have the "credit", so I can see the other stuff with more ease.
>
>I'm not trying to take away anything from the park, nor am I condemning anyone
>for liking it. I don't know why I've been subjected to ridicule for having a
>slightly different opinion, or for being uinformed about the park.
>
>Keep in mind one thing, if you will - it was suggested that an enthusiast
>SHOULD have been prepared.
>
>Well, what about the GP? If the typical member of the GP arrives at 11:00 am,
>and is unprepared and not forewarned, how does he or she feel when leaving?
>Like it was the best park in the world? Or like it was fairly expensive for
>what he or she got out of it?
Let's be honest here. Both Disney and Universal recommend spending at
least three days at each of their resorts. Universal very clearly
recommends allowing three days to fully see both parks. You expected to
fully see both parks in one day in the peak season, after arriving two
hours late. Whose fault is that, really?
Honestly, I think that the GP visiting Orlando theme parks expects to wait
in long lines. They allow themselves enough time to do everything that
they want to do, even if it takes several days. Or they pick and choose
what they want to ride most. I know that when I was a kid and went to
Disney with the family, we allowed two days for the Magic Kingdom, and an
additional day for Epcot (once it opened.) And even then, I know that we
had to decide which things we most wanted to ride and which attractions to
skip.
>One can arrive at most parks even after noon and still get on the major
>attractions usually.
No, actually, one can't at most major theme parks. At least without
waiting an hour or two.
>To answer the question about the rain, the rides were closed for about 2 1/4 to
>2 1/2 hours. All the rides closed (possibly excepting Cat in the Hat and
>Spiderman). However, please remember that it was clear that the park seemed to
>prefer that we remain under shelter during the storm. Yes, we could have gone
>to Universal or checked out those 2 attractions.
>
>But again I'll repeat this - the rides that we rode after the storm had shorter
>lines DUE to the storm. Had it not occurred, we would have waited in much
>longer lines for the rest so would have come out about the same. IOA posts
>some of the various ride waiting times throughout the park, so I could see that
>the other rides all had lengthy waits prior to the storm.
You only rode four rides after the storm, correct? Bluto, Fire, Ice and
Cat in the Hat. With an additional 2.5 hours, I think you'd still have
been able to do more than that, despite longer lines. Plus, remember that
the park tends to clear out later in the day, even if it doesn't rain.
>I still think the park has a problem - and that's just my opinion. You're free
>to feel otherwise - but I don't appreciate insults because I have a different
>opinion.
I'm not insulting you. Perhaps others are. And I agree that that's not
inappropriate.
But I do think that it's a bit silly to think that a park has a problem if
they have long lines in the summer. I would think that most parks would be
THRILLED to have long lines on most attractions!
Todd Long
<nos...@ghostrider.org> wrote:
>
>It's a zoo. The zoo is the filler. The rides complement the animals and
>beautiful grounds that typify a great zoo.
Not to mention a fun and educational (heavy) petting zoo!
I'm sure Mike will be called upon to defend DAK more in depth now by
someone now that he has expressed a liking to it.
Todd "circle "jerk" of life" Long
"have a Good Day and be happy go ride a Ride that
make you happy and yell." - Kenny June 7, 2003
The Chainlift
> In article <5deb1669.03081...@posting.google.com>,
> ras...@kingwoodcable.net says...
> > Now, Hulk, yes, it's nothing new really. But, DD is VERY original.
> > Fire is about as unique as B&M can get, imho.
> >
>
> You've not been on Talon, Top Gun, Alpengeist, Nemesis, or Great Bear?
> Fire is pretty standard B&M in my book.
>
> --
> Mike Kallay
What?
Alp, Top Gun, Great Bear? ... I'll give you Great Bear for the interesting
high spiral as somewhat unique but those other B&M inverts mentioned have
very little in actual track design (Nemesis theming excluded) that set them
apart from most other inverts? Fire has two extremely unique (not
duplicated anywhere else) elements and is by far (IMHO) the best Invert out
there. Ice on the other hand ... is standard Invert fair. Which is why I'm
at 278 rides on Fire vs. 204 on Ice. (Originally I was going to try and keep
it even but decided that was silly since I enjoy Fire much much more.
Jeffrey C. Peterson
******************************************************
You can't run away forever... but there's nothing
wrong with getting a get head start.
-Jim Steinman
******************************************************
David Bowers
<chai...@excite.com> wrote:
Which is why I'm
>at 278 rides on Fire vs. 204 on Ice. (Originally I was going to try and keep
>it even but decided that was silly since I enjoy Fire much much more.
>
>
>
>Jeffrey C. Peterson
>
David jumps in out of nowhere, looks at the above post, and says:
"Ah you keep seperate counts for Fire and Ice, therefore they must be
two different rides"
Then ducks back into hiding.
David "Who also much prefers Fire" Bowers
![Marcus Sheen [UK]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVmlD-3O2G-KC3qSSo3pZ2NFhPtbR1NOOO-TT3sMenw5FGo=s40-c)
Marcus Sheen [UK]
> > > VERY original.
> > > Fire is about as unique as B&M can get, imho.
> > You've not been on Talon, Top Gun, Alpengeist, Nemesis,
> > or Great Bear?
> > Fire is pretty standard B&M in my book.
> Alp, Top Gun, Great Bear? ... I'll give you Great Bear for
> the interesting
> high spiral as somewhat unique but those other B&M inverts
> mentioned have
> very little in actual track design (Nemesis theming excluded)
[SNIP]
> Ice on the other hand ... is standard Invert fair.
I'd agree about Fire, most definitely. The airtime hill and the immel-helix
both stand out as being very unique, and I think the whole pacing of Fire is
very good - it's not a small coaster, but packs a punch as if it were.
Ice is fairly standard, yes, but even the first turn out of the drop is
fairly original on the inverted coaster.
Whilst Fire is probably my favourite, too, I should point out that I really
do like Ice too.
Regards,
Marcus
爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜 COASTER KINGDOM 虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯
http://www.ukrollercoasters.co.uk
HELP SAVE DREAMLAND MARGATE
http://www.joylandbooks.com/scenicrailway/
Locoboy
> I'm sure Mike will be called upon to defend DAK more in depth now by
> someone now that he has expressed a liking to it.
I remember that exact same thing happened to me when I said that I liked the
park and spent a few days there.
It's rather humorous (or pathetic, depending on one's perspective) how
people can't accept that others see things differently.
Nomicon
Mike Kallay <nos...@ghostrider.org> wrote:
> In article <20030815200935...@mb-m10.aol.com>,
> bobco...@aol.com says...
> > >I read your IOA TR expecting not to like it. And I didn't. I hope you
> > >don't plan on publishing this crap in Ace News
> >
> > Was this necessary? So your opinion differs. That's fine. Can't you rise
> > above this kind of comment, please? If I disagreed with you, I wouldn't
> > have
> > said something against you in this way.
> >
> > Bob Hooley
>
> It is necessary. I've seen you repeatedly come on here and wax negative
> about a park, largely because of operations. Knotts & DCA come to mind.
> Then, you almost VERBATIM submit the same TR to ACE News for your
> "column."
>
> Isn't part of the reason ACE exists is to act as a promoter or friend to
> the industry? If so, then what purpose does it provide to post negative
> personal opinions in a club publication?
>
You are Sam Marks and I claim my free season pass to SFA.
RK
Wolf
>
> "Ah you keep seperate counts for Fire and Ice, therefore they must be
> two different rides"
>
> Then ducks back into hiding.
>
> David "Who also much prefers Fire" Bowers
Not so, says Wolf:
I've kept counts before of Red vs Blue on Gemini, but consider it one
coaster. Whatcher point?
--
|\-/|
<0 0>
=(o)=
-Wolf
Joe Campanella
"Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN)" <coast...@comcast.net No Spam>>
>I have been to Universal a few times, so I already knew I wasn't going
> to but the one day park hopper. But IF I was considering it before I
talked
> to Bob about his experience, I may have been "tricked" into it by the park
> too. Now, after reading and talking to Bob about his report, I know
without
> any doubt I will get a one day ticket to IOA and spend the day there and
now
> bother with Univeral. So you see, his TR gave me and I am sure some
others
> very good advice.
Good advice? You mean like NOT arriving two hours after the park opened on
a day where there's a significant chance of more than just some small
passing T-Storms to a park you've never ever been to before in the busiest
theme park part of the country in the middle of August?
Danny, I know even you could have figured that out without the "help" of
Bob's TR! :-p
Joe C.
Joe Campanella
"Bob Hooley" <bobco...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030815192635...@mb-m19.aol.com...
I'm sorry you took it as offense, but seriously, how could you even *think*
it was possible! I mean what do you expect when you put that nonsense up
here...was that supposed to strengthen your argument or something?
Joe "sometimes it takes me 45mins to CRAP!" C.
Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN)
news:vjt5rqp...@corp.supernews.com...
I was talking about buying the single park ticket vs buying the 1 day park
hopper ticket. I may have considered it, but now I won't. I will just go
to IOA, I think that deserves a full day by itself anyway.
Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN)
> In article <20030814185659...@mb-m25.aol.com>,
> bobco...@aol.com says...
> > I would agree. However, as a coaster enthusiast, I had to ride the
coasters
> > even when I suspected I wouldn't be impressed. I couldn't ride the
other
> > things, bypass the coasters, and feel right about that decision!
> >
>
> Preconceived opinions are a bitch.
Hmmm...
> I read your IOA TR expecting not to like it. And I didn't. I hope you
> don't plan on publishing this crap in Ace News. It always surprises me
> that they let you put your oddly personal complaining in there.
Isn't that a preconceived opinion?
> You set yourself up for a bad day: from your outlook all the way to the
> duping you inflicted on yourself for buying a park hopper. Knowing the
> distance between gates alone, I would not have ponied up for that. I
> think Joe has it right on -- that ticket only benefits park veterans who
> want to selectively sample their favorite attractions. It would work
> great for me, because I think MIB is the best thing at the Resort, but I
> don't want to spend the entire day at the studio park.
> Mike Kallay
Mike, I really don't understand why you have become so obsessed with
attacking Bob and his opinions. I also don't understand why you said he had
a preconceived opinion and then in the next paragraph you admited to have
one about his TR???
Just remember, we all have our opinions and we are all entitled to them. We
won't all agree on any one thing. Thats the great thing about having
different parks and experiences. If it were all the same, it would be a bit
boring. 8^)
Bob Hooley
>it was possible
Please tell me where in my TR I said I expected to duplicate my friend's 45
minute romp through IOA. Show me my words that said I expected that.
I did not say it. I simply said HE said he rode all the major rides (not
including water rides) in that amount of time. I had no thought whatsoever
that I would ride the park's rides in that amount of time on a summer day. I
just thought it was reasonable to think I could ride 10 rides in about 7 hours.
I did not expect 60 minute waits for everything.
I don't know why everyone is focusing on that, or my arrival time or my lack of
"planning". I just said - in the original TR - that I think they should either
not offer that ticket during busy summer days OR offer it with some sort of
warning. That was the extent of my discontent.
Dave Sandborg
<bobco...@aol.com> wrote:
> I don't know why everyone is focusing on that, or my arrival time or my lack
> of
> "planning". I just said - in the original TR - that I think they should
> either
> not offer that ticket during busy summer days OR offer it with some sort of
> warning. That was the extent of my discontent.
I'm surprised you didn't just ask the person who sold you the ticket
about whether it would be a good idea for your familiy. You also
expressed confusion about whether the two day ticket applied to both
parks. Why didn't you just ask them about that? You could also have
thought to ask whether it was particularly crowded.
You certainly have a right to an opinion about the park and its
attractions. I haven't been there myself, so I can't comment on that.
But some of the things you did (or didn't do) show very little common
sense. I'm not one for regimenting my day to the extent that David
does either, but I would have known not to go to the big coaster at the
front of the park at that time of day. That would apply for any visit
to a big park. It was easy to tell that the infamous 45 minute figure
was an exaggeration. I don't generally do a huge amount of preliminary
research, but a simple Google query could have told you a lot of the
things you'd have wanted to know. Or heck, you could have just posted
here before your trip to get peoples' recommendations.
--
Dave Sandborg
Remove Spam-away to respond via e-mail.
Ted Ansley
Wow Mike, I don't think I was every that critical of Bob in the past...but I had
many of the same issues with many long time ACErs over the last ..almost
10 years. I noticed after my first year or two in ACE this same attitude
amongst many long term ACErs including some of the clubs leaders.
No wonder ACE has its share of media embarrassments and mud on the
face of the club. Unfortunately I've found this exact attitude is fairly
widespread and until recently I don't think *ACE*, as in the club leaders,
have actually started to change the elite attitude that some people seem
to expound.
Joe Campanella
> Please tell me where in my TR I said I expected to duplicate my friend's
45
> minute romp through IOA. Show me my words that said I expected that.
Dude, the fact that you brought it up obviously meant that you thought it
could be done! Why even bring it up?
<snip>
Joe "going out now" C.
Joe Campanella
"Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN)" <coast...@comcast.net No Spam> wrote in
message news:JmCdnbeJYPK...@comcast.com...
> I was talking about buying the single park ticket vs buying the 1 day park
> hopper ticket. I may have considered it, but now I won't. I will just go
> to IOA, I think that deserves a full day by itself anyway.
I know, and I would never even think of getting that ticket (well, I am an
annual passholder in the first place). I would want to relax and not try to
rush my day by purchasing that ticket option. But it's just that, an
option! You don't have to get it, I don't know why the park needs to tell
you anything. If you have an ounce of common sense you would know both
parks are going to be busy in the middle of August!
I completely agree, IOA needs a full day (hell it needs many day, IMO, I
just love it though).
Joe
Bob Hooley
>could be done! Why even bring it up?
I brought it up NOT in the TR but in response to someone else. Here's exactly
what I said:
The only people I know directly (with whom I'd had any conversations) who'd
been there had both told me both parks could be done fairly quickly. One
friend did both parks in 45 minutes. Granted, that was in December - but
during the busy Christmas season. So it then made sense to assume a whole day
would allow me to get all of IOA and 3 Universal attractions.
Please re-read that last sentence. I NEVER SAID I could do the whole park in
45 minutes. Right from the start, I said it made sense to assume a whole day
would allow me to get all of IOA and 3 Universal attractions.
Bob Hooley
>about whether it would be a good idea for your familiy. You also
>expressed confusion about whether the two day ticket applied to both
>parks
We bought the ticket from a machine. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
Note that I said, too, that one - I'd recommend the park, and two, I just
wouldn't recommend that ticket. End of story.
The Chainlift
news:HcmcnQJK-o1...@giganews.com...
> > David jumps in out of nowhere, looks at the above post, and says:
> >
> > "Ah you keep seperate counts for Fire and Ice, therefore they must be
> > two different rides"
>
>
> I've kept counts before of Red vs Blue on Gemini, but consider it one
> coaster. Whatcher point?
David is attempting to re-open an old friendly debate which was started
during marathon ride sessions on that ONE coaster named Gwazi at BGT.
Jeffrey C. Peterson
*******************
Who would have responded with something similar to Wolf's point anyway.
But to be fair to David I believe he is very consistent in his counting twin
track coasters ---- unlike others who count some as 1 and others as 2.
Glenn Dobbs
>I would want to relax and not try to
>rush my day by purchasing that ticket option.
You know Joe.... of all of the trips you've planned, relaxed isn't a
descriptive word that comes to mind at all, buddy! :-) "Ok, so me and Mike
will get off work at 6, drive from Illinois to Oklahoma, pick you up at 5, get
to SFoT by opening, spend a day, find the hotel. Then we'll get up at 6 or 7
to get to SFFT by opening and get pulled over for a blinker...." Relaxed, and
calm, eh? :-P
-Glenn Dobbs
1. Steel - Expedition GeForce
1. Wood - Shivering Timbers
Track Count: 143
Knock off MrRuben to reply
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
Actually, Danny, I don't think that his warning in ANY way applies to you.
He went on a very busy day where crowds were huge and arrived late.
You're going on one of the slowest weeks of the year, where crowds WON'T be
huge -- at least if you follow some basic advice -- and I'm betting you'll
arrive before or at least shortly after opening.
To be honest, I'd think that a visit like yours is EXACTLY what the hopper
passes were meant for. Unless you intend to marathon on the coasters for a
long time, or spend a lot of time taking pictures or video, you could
easily get in just about every attraction at IOA several times, and
probabaly quite a few -- if not all -- of the attractions at USF. (Do the
single rider line for MIB!)
Could you spend the whole day at IOA? Certainly. Do you need to? No.
If it is your first time there, I could easily see you spending a lot of
time just walking around and admiring all of the theming, and all of the
little touches. But if those things aren't important to you, then you
probably will have time to see quite a few things at USF. And you could
probably still get back to IOA in time to do some marathoning on the
Dragons -- just don't forget to look for the RE-ENTRY DOOR to save you a
LONG walk in between rides!
Base your decision on how many things at USF you really want to see, and
how many times you'll want to reride the coasters and rides at IOA.
Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN)
wrote in message news:r0oujvcbrrui1s850...@4ax.com...
> Actually, Danny, I don't think that his warning in ANY way applies to you.
>
> He went on a very busy day where crowds were huge and arrived late.
>
> You're going on one of the slowest weeks of the year, where crowds WON'T
be
> huge -- at least if you follow some basic advice -- and I'm betting you'll
> arrive before or at least shortly after opening.
Thats good to hear. I was hoping that the week after labor day would be
good to go to FL. We are planning on getting there about 20 to 30 mins
prior to opening.
> To be honest, I'd think that a visit like yours is EXACTLY what the hopper
> passes were meant for. Unless you intend to marathon on the coasters for
a
> long time, or spend a lot of time taking pictures or video, you could
> easily get in just about every attraction at IOA several times, and
> probabaly quite a few -- if not all -- of the attractions at USF. (Do the
> single rider line for MIB!)
>
> Could you spend the whole day at IOA? Certainly. Do you need to? No.
I have been to Universal Studios FL before, Janis has not though. But we
already agreed that each needs a full day, we don't have a day this trip to
give to USF itself. So we are just going to IOA, simply because they have 3
coasters for her to add and 2 for me to add to our "have ridden" lists.
Plus I want to ride Spiderman really bad.
> If it is your first time there, I could easily see you spending a lot of
> time just walking around and admiring all of the theming, and all of the
> little touches. But if those things aren't important to you, then you
> probably will have time to see quite a few things at USF. And you could
> probably still get back to IOA in time to do some marathoning on the
> Dragons -- just don't forget to look for the RE-ENTRY DOOR to save you a
> LONG walk in between rides!
Actually I went for the Coasterphobic event back in 99 prior to the park
actually opening. However not much was actually finished. And we only got
to ride Hulk for the event. So I have 95% of the park to do and see and
Janis has the whole thing to see. We will give some time to just walking
around and looking around I am sure. There is a lot to see there I hear.
> Base your decision on how many things at USF you really want to see, and
> how many times you'll want to reride the coasters and rides at IOA.
There is only one thing I really want to see at USF and that is Twister, it
wasn't there my first and only visit back in 1996. That can wait till later
this winter when we go back down.
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
If you are planning on doing both parks later in the year -- or any time
actually -- you probabaly should get the 3-day pass, since the days don't
expire. (Double check that that is still the case when you buy them!) You
also might want to consider a season pass. (Note that the 5 days for the
price of 2 deals generally DO expire in a few weeks!) It might work out
cheaper, and would allow you to hot in for partial days (such as on days
when you fly in late or fly out early or if you decide you don't need the
whole day at Sea World) without feeling ripped off!
>> If it is your first time there, I could easily see you spending a lot of
>> time just walking around and admiring all of the theming, and all of the
>> little touches. But if those things aren't important to you, then you
>> probably will have time to see quite a few things at USF. And you could
>> probably still get back to IOA in time to do some marathoning on the
>> Dragons -- just don't forget to look for the RE-ENTRY DOOR to save you a
>> LONG walk in between rides!
>
>Actually I went for the Coasterphobic event back in 99 prior to the park
>actually opening. However not much was actually finished. And we only got
>to ride Hulk for the event. So I have 95% of the park to do and see and
>Janis has the whole thing to see. We will give some time to just walking
>around and looking around I am sure. There is a lot to see there I hear.
Yep.
>> Base your decision on how many things at USF you really want to see, and
>> how many times you'll want to reride the coasters and rides at IOA.
>
>There is only one thing I really want to see at USF and that is Twister, it
>wasn't there my first and only visit back in 1996. That can wait till later
>this winter when we go back down.
I've never been impressed with Twister. It can certainly wait. ;-)
I hear that Shrek 4D is a lot of fun. They also have the Jimmy Neutron
simulator now. Have you been on Men In Black? It's one of the best
attractions at Universal.
When you go back, try to make sure it's not around X-Mas New Year's or
Spring Break (March.) Some of February can be a bit busier with parts of
the country having school vacations then. September (post Labor Day),
October, November (except for the days around Thanksgiving), December and
January (except from a few days before X-Mas to a few days after New
Year's) are the slowest times of year.
Mark Rosenzweig
>
> What?
>
> Alp, Top Gun, Great Bear? ... I'll give you Great Bear for the interesting
> high spiral as somewhat unique but those other B&M inverts mentioned have
> very little in actual track design (Nemesis theming excluded) that set them
> apart from most other inverts? Fire has two extremely unique (not
> duplicated anywhere else) elements and is by far (IMHO) the best Invert out
> there. Ice on the other hand ... is standard Invert fair. Which is why I'm
> at 278 rides on Fire vs. 204 on Ice. (Originally I was going to try and keep
> it even but decided that was silly since I enjoy Fire much much more.
>
>
Talon: B&M's answer to Vekoma's SLC in terms of layout. Forces?
What forces? The inverted Kraken. Aside from the neat ground hugging
helix near the end of the course, nothing unique here.
Top Gun:
a)Great America: Cool layout for a first generation invert.
Lots of forces, and an awesome ending. Short, sweet, and full of
force- but unique? Hardly.
b)Carowinds: Slightly more than forceless. One of the best paced
immelman/heartline combos. Great location over sprawling midways
below. Unique? Aside from the tunnel coverving the batwing, no.
Alpengeist: Unique only in that the order of off the shelf stuff was
mixed up from the previous rides. If you're into size, I guess it's
got that going for it too. Not much else.
Nemesis: Totally awe inspiring from pics. One of my most sought
after rides.
Great Bear: Creative and unique ride with the best inverted heartline
anywhere. Still, aside from the high helix off the lift and spring
creek hugging trackage, the ride doesn't feel or look (visual-wise) to
be much different than any other invert.
Dueling Dragons have lots of off the shelf elements (i.e. heartline,
cobra roll, vertical, flat spin on Ice; immelman, vertical, two
heartlines on Fire). But they also have several unique elements like
Fire's wraparound Immelman that have never been duplicated on any
other B&M invert. Couple this with the amazing set up of the track
playing with each other (and the fact that the rides *ride* solidly
with little to no B&M jarring (i.e. SFNE BDK) and you have the
masterpiece engineering job from B&M. Nitro may be my fave from them
overall, but Dueling Dragons as a whole is not to far off.
-Mark
Mike Kallay
\(CoAsTeRDaN\)" <coast...@comcast.net No Spam> says...
> Mike, I really don't understand why you have become so obsessed with
> attacking Bob and his opinions. I also don't understand why you said he had
> a preconceived opinion and then in the next paragraph you admited to have
> one about his TR???
>
I was being ironically sarcastic. Or, was it sarcastically ironic?
I'm not obsessed; not with him at least. The former Daniel Rouse Jr.
(Miss Jackson if you're nasty), now that's a different story.
--
Mike Kallay
kal...@ghostrider.org
www.ghostrider.org for all your Flyfishing needs!
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men." --
Willy Wonka
Phillip Reuss
<nos...@ghostrider.org> wrote:
>In article <ruacnTyE2PZ...@comcast.com>, "Danny Biggerstaff
>\(CoAsTeRDaN\)" <coast...@comcast.net No Spam> says...
>> Mike, I really don't understand why you have become so obsessed with
>> attacking Bob and his opinions. I also don't understand why you said he had
>> a preconceived opinion and then in the next paragraph you admited to have
>> one about his TR???
>>
>
>I was being ironically sarcastic. Or, was it sarcastically ironic?
>
>I'm not obsessed; not with him at least. The former Daniel Rouse Jr.
>(Miss Jackson if you're nasty), now that's a different story.
LOL, Mike! RRC just hasn't been quite as entertaining since
Junior Rouse took his sabbatical.
--
Phillip
reu...@osu.edu