DAB cards and Linux
Chris Croughton
card are supported under Linux? I had a look at the hardware
compatibility Howto and couldn't find any at all, but I'm sure some must
be by now. The functionality I'm interested in is simply changing
channels and recording, I'm not bothered about direct play (in fact I'll
probably want the ordinary soundcard to be outputting something
different at the same time), either via command-line utilities or as a
library (or a simple device interface).
Thanks,
Chris C
Jonathan Buzzard
Depending on which radio stations you are interested in recording
you are better off looking at either Freeview or digital satellite,
as they in general use much higher bitrates than DAB.
As an example BBC7 is 80kbps mono on DAB and 160kbps stereo on
Freeview.
JAB.
--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonathan (at) buzzard.me.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 1661-832195
Paul Oldham
Buzzard) growled:
> In article <slrnbqdhhe...@ccserver.keris.net>,
> Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org> writes:
> > Does anyone have any experience of which DAB (Digital Audio Broadcast)
> > card are supported under Linux? I had a look at the hardware
> > compatibility Howto and couldn't find any at all, but I'm sure some must
> > be by now. The functionality I'm interested in is simply changing
> > channels and recording, I'm not bothered about direct play (in fact I'll
> > probably want the ordinary soundcard to be outputting something
> > different at the same time), either via command-line utilities or as a
> > library (or a simple device interface).
>
> Depending on which radio stations you are interested in recording
> you are better off looking at either Freeview or digital satellite,
> as they in general use much higher bitrates than DAB.
Not really an option for those of us without a TV licence, if we want to
avoid tedious arguments with the authorities, especially as most STBs have a
UI which relies heavily on you having a TV.
However I'm coming around to the conclusion that the simplest solution for
me is simply to stream of the Net into the HiFi PC.
--
Paul Oldham, Milton, Cambridge, UK
http://the-hug.org/paul/
Chris Croughton
<jona...@uk.me.buzzard> wrote:
> In article <slrnbqdhhe...@ccserver.keris.net>,
> Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org> writes:
>> Does anyone have any experience of which DAB (Digital Audio Broadcast)
>> card are supported under Linux? I had a look at the hardware
>> compatibility Howto and couldn't find any at all, but I'm sure some must
>> be by now. The functionality I'm interested in is simply changing
>> channels and recording, I'm not bothered about direct play (in fact I'll
>> probably want the ordinary soundcard to be outputting something
>> different at the same time), either via command-line utilities or as a
>> library (or a simple device interface).
>
> Depending on which radio stations you are interested in recording
BBC R3 and BBC R7.
> you are better off looking at either Freeview or digital satellite,
> as they in general use much higher bitrates than DAB.
I'm not paying for satellite for two radio stations which are supposed
to be "free-to-air"!
I do get all of them via cable, but (a) that ties up the cable box (and
a lot of the programmes are in the evening) and (b) it then goes via
analogue from the cable box to the PC.
(Also, NTL cable at least has a tendency to over-modulate, leading to
nasty digital clipping in loud parts. I don't know where this is
happening, but I suspect not at the BBC...)
> As an example BBC7 is 80kbps mono on DAB and 160kbps stereo on
> Freeview.
TBH I'm not bothered about R7 in stereo, since most of the programmes
I'm interested in there were recorded in mono anyway. R3 is a different
matter, I want that at a reasonable quality.
Freeview may be a problem, since the reason I got cable originally was
because I can't get a decent TV signal. But what would be recommended
for that (since I only want sound)?
Chris C
MJ Ray
> However I'm coming around to the conclusion that the simplest solution for
> me is simply to stream of the Net into the HiFi PC.
I've reached the same conclusion at the other end of the fens to you. We are
"fringe" for almost everything, including BBC FM radio, although we were
important enough way back when to have an AM transmitter. It is madness and
money seems to override any idea of a public service. Sell them off.
Tony Hoyle
wrote:
>Freeview may be a problem, since the reason I got cable originally was
>because I can't get a decent TV signal. But what would be recommended
>for that (since I only want sound)?
>
The best for weak/dodgy signals is the Daewoo or Labgear SetPal boxes.
(actually anything containing a SetPal tuner will do the same job).
If you're looking for something onboard then the hauppauge works...
you have to get into the whole mpeg decoding thing though, and it's
not too great at weak signals (it seems to break up even on relatively
strong ones).
Tony
spi...@freenet.co.uk
Maybe you weren't "important enough to get an AM transmitter".
AM has a much longer range than FM.
:)
Chris Croughton
<t...@nodomain.org> wrote:
> On 4 Nov 2003 13:37:51 GMT, Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org>
> wrote:
>
>>Freeview may be a problem, since the reason I got cable originally was
>>because I can't get a decent TV signal. But what would be recommended
>>for that (since I only want sound)?
>>
> The best for weak/dodgy signals is the Daewoo or Labgear SetPal boxes.
> (actually anything containing a SetPal tuner will do the same job).
Which presumably are only analogue out still? Not that it matters much,
I haven't got a sound card with digital input...
Presumably controlled via an IR remote control; assuming it's
reasonable UI (i.e. channels selected by number and not via <next> and
<previous>) then that isn't a problem for me.
> If you're looking for something onboard then the hauppauge works...
> you have to get into the whole mpeg decoding thing though, and it's
> not too great at weak signals (it seems to break up even on relatively
> strong ones).
You mean I have to decode an MPEG even if all I want is the sound?
Chris C
Chris Croughton
<pa...@the-hug.org> wrote:
> However I'm coming around to the conclusion that the simplest solution for
> me is simply to stream of the Net into the HiFi PC.
How do you do that with BBC under Linux? I get as far as BBC Radio 7
"Listen live", then get a choice of RealPlayer (which I have no idea how
to decode to a WAV) or Media Player, the latter has choices of HIGH and
LOW, but selecting either takes me to the same page
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/bbc7_asx.shtml?6hi (or ?lo)) and I get
no further. Radio 3 seems to only support RealPlayer...
Chris C
Jonathan Buzzard
Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org> writes:
[SNIP]
>
>> If you're looking for something onboard then the hauppauge works...
>> you have to get into the whole mpeg decoding thing though, and it's
>> not too great at weak signals (it seems to break up even on relatively
>> strong ones).
>
> You mean I have to decode an MPEG even if all I want is the sound?
>
Yep, the sound is broadcast as encoded MPEG2, at 48kHz and bitrates
of 192kbps and 160kbps for Radio 3 and BBC7 respectively. Personally
capturing the raw MPEG stream from the card for later processing
is ideal for me, particularly as most settop boxes have lousy DAC's
in them. It means I can use the best MPEG decoder out there (madlib),
a good quality resample to 44.1kHz (my CD based MP3 player won't
play 48kHz MP3's) chop the chatter off either end, and then re-encode
them using LAME into MP3's for latter listening.
Jonathan Buzzard
Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org> writes:
> On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:56:14 +0000, Jonathan Buzzard
> <jona...@uk.me.buzzard> wrote:
>
>> In article <slrnbqdhhe...@ccserver.keris.net>,
>> Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org> writes:
>>> Does anyone have any experience of which DAB (Digital Audio Broadcast)
>>> card are supported under Linux? I had a look at the hardware
>>> compatibility Howto and couldn't find any at all, but I'm sure some must
>>> be by now. The functionality I'm interested in is simply changing
>>> channels and recording, I'm not bothered about direct play (in fact I'll
>>> probably want the ordinary soundcard to be outputting something
>>> different at the same time), either via command-line utilities or as a
>>> library (or a simple device interface).
>>
>> Depending on which radio stations you are interested in recording
>
> BBC R3 and BBC R7.
>
Freeview is your best bet I think. BBC Radio 3 is 192kbps stereo,
and BBC7 is 160kbps stereo, better than DAB and better than the net.
>> you are better off looking at either Freeview or digital satellite,
>> as they in general use much higher bitrates than DAB.
>
> I'm not paying for satellite for two radio stations which are supposed
> to be "free-to-air"!
You don't have to, all the BBC channels are broadcast free to air on
satellite now.
>> As an example BBC7 is 80kbps mono on DAB and 160kbps stereo on
>> Freeview.
>
> TBH I'm not bothered about R7 in stereo, since most of the programmes
> I'm interested in there were recorded in mono anyway. R3 is a different
> matter, I want that at a reasonable quality.
You would be surprised how much is actually in stereo on BBC7. I
got a Hauppauge DEC 2000-t to hook upto my laptop in February this
year for express reason to record the output of BBC7. I would
judge that 90% of the BBC7 output is stereo. The Hauppauge software
for Windows is not upto much. There is a Linux driver in the works
and the PCI plugin cards have drivers.
> Freeview may be a problem, since the reason I got cable originally was
> because I can't get a decent TV signal. But what would be recommended
> for that (since I only want sound)?
Was that ordinary analogue or digital? Do you just what to listen
to it, or record it?
Keith Willoughby
> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:06 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), Paul Oldham
> <pa...@the-hug.org> wrote:
>
>> However I'm coming around to the conclusion that the simplest solution for
>> me is simply to stream of the Net into the HiFi PC.
>
> How do you do that with BBC under Linux? I get as far as BBC Radio 7
> "Listen live", then get a choice of RealPlayer (which I have no idea how
> to decode to a WAV)
vsound - the author no longer distributes it for legal reasons, but
others do. (It uses an LD_PRELOAD hack to record the ioctls)
--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
"Can I do you now, sir?"
Tony Hoyle
wrote:
>Which presumably are only analogue out still? Not that it matters much,
>I haven't got a sound card with digital input...
http://www.radioandtelly.co.uk/freeviewreceivers.html lists several
boxes with digital out (along with some PCI cards that I didn't know
about).
>
>You mean I have to decode an MPEG even if all I want is the sound?
With the hauppauge it's a 'dumb' receiver - it just gives the raw MPEG
stream to the PC then you have to decode it manually, to split into
audio/video etc. It comes with 'doze software to do it, and there's
a linux driver (which was a bit beta the last time I looked at it but
that was over a year ago).
Tony
Philip Armstrong
Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org> wrote:
>You mean I have to decode an MPEG even if all I want is the sound?
DAB audio is mpeg2 layer 2 (MP2) IIRC, so you have to decode an mpeg2
stream whatever you do. That mpeg2 stream won't contain any video data
though...
Phil
--
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/ .oOo. public key: http://www.kantaka.co.uk/gpg.txt
Philip Armstrong
ISTR that given access to the real libraries, mplayer can play
realplayer streams.
Paul Oldham
(Chris Croughton) growled:
> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:06 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), Paul Oldham
> <pa...@the-hug.org> wrote:
>
> > However I'm coming around to the conclusion that the simplest solution
> > for me is simply to stream of the Net into the HiFi PC.
>
> How do you do that with BBC under Linux?
I use Netscape 4.n and Realplayer. Click on "Listen live", it pops up the
poxy BBC Radio Player in a new window, which works, just about (in plays
but the buttons don't work). But I then click on the "REALPLAYER" link in
that box and it launches a real copy of Realplayer and I then kill the BBC
Radio Player.
Jonathan Buzzard
Philip Armstrong <ph...@armstrong.invalid> writes:
> In article <slrnbqfo57...@ccserver.keris.net>,
> Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org> wrote:
>>You mean I have to decode an MPEG even if all I want is the sound?
>
> DAB audio is mpeg2 layer 2 (MP2) IIRC, so you have to decode an mpeg2
> stream whatever you do. That mpeg2 stream won't contain any video data
> though...
>
Neither do the MPEG2 streams for audio only channels on Freeview.
fruit
> On 4 Nov 2003 17:23:54 GMT, Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org>
> wrote:
[snip]
>>You mean I have to decode an MPEG even if all I want is the sound?
>
> With the hauppauge it's a 'dumb' receiver - it just gives the raw MPEG
> stream to the PC then you have to decode it manually, to split into
> audio/video etc.
That's with a budget card. Full featured DVB-t are now available that will
h/w decode, or use mplayer with s/w decode, add a cheap DXR3 for h/w
decode.
> It comes with 'doze software to do it, and there's
> a linux driver (which was a bit beta the last time I looked at it but
> that was over a year ago).
Not sure of its current status, other than still in development, but it's
been working well here since I found it around 2 years ago now. Add vdr
(h/w decode required) and you have your own PVR.. and with remote control
etc.
fruit
--
A. Top posters
Q. What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:06 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), Paul Oldham
> <pa...@the-hug.org> wrote:
>> However I'm coming around to the conclusion that the simplest solution for
>> me is simply to stream of the Net into the HiFi PC.
> How do you do that with BBC under Linux? I get as far as BBC Radio 7
> "Listen live", then get a choice of RealPlayer (which I have no idea how
> to decode to a WAV)
I found that I can record the output from a realstream by switching capture
on in alsamixer, but found the quality lacking. (need to play about with
that sometime).
There is a stream recorder out there, but alas, can't remember the name of
it.
or Media Player, the latter has choices of HIGH and
> LOW, but selecting either takes me to the same page
> (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/bbc7_asx.shtml?6hi (or ?lo)) and I get
> no further. Radio 3 seems to only support RealPlayer...
I've not had trouble listening live to bbc7 using realplay. or radio4 live
or "listen again".
Never tried it with windows media vomit format in mplayer though.
Chris Croughton
<jona...@uk.me.buzzard> wrote:
> Yep, the sound is broadcast as encoded MPEG2, at 48kHz and bitrates
> of 192kbps and 160kbps for Radio 3 and BBC7 respectively. Personally
> capturing the raw MPEG stream from the card for later processing
> is ideal for me, particularly as most settop boxes have lousy DAC's
> in them. It means I can use the best MPEG decoder out there (madlib),
> a good quality resample to 44.1kHz (my CD based MP3 player won't
> play 48kHz MP3's) chop the chatter off either end, and then re-encode
> them using LAME into MP3's for latter listening.
That's something like what I want to do. I want to capture the audio
"on demand" (meaning "when I tell it to for however long I tell it from
whatever channel I've told it", all by itself -- which rules out using
Mozilla or other interactive methods). I then want it as a WAV file, so
that I can edit it (remove lead-in and trailers). I then want it in
(potentially) two forms -- one 'raw' for writing to CD in the best
quality available (possibly 'normalised' to a standard level) and the
other volume compressed for writing (also automatically) to MD so I can
listen to it on the train (where there is only a limited dynamic range,
low volumes get lost in the train noise even with noise-cancelling
headphones) or car.
But basically once it's in WAV format I can do anything with it...
Chris C
Chris Croughton
<jona...@uk.me.buzzard> wrote:
> In article <slrnbqfatf...@ccserver.keris.net>,
> Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org> writes:
>>
>> BBC R3 and BBC R7.
>
> Freeview is your best bet I think. BBC Radio 3 is 192kbps stereo,
> and BBC7 is 160kbps stereo, better than DAB and better than the net.
Ah, right. If I can get a signal...
>> I'm not paying for satellite for two radio stations which are supposed
>> to be "free-to-air"!
>
> You don't have to, all the BBC channels are broadcast free to air on
> satellite now.
I'd have to pay for installation and the Sky subscription (as far as I
can make out from their site it's around 30 quid a month). I don't see
any "install it and then go away, I'm not paying you any more" option...
> You would be surprised how much is actually in stereo on BBC7. I
> got a Hauppauge DEC 2000-t to hook upto my laptop in February this
> year for express reason to record the output of BBC7. I would
> judge that 90% of the BBC7 output is stereo. The Hauppauge software
> for Windows is not upto much. There is a Linux driver in the works
> and the PCI plugin cards have drivers.
I know quite a lot /is/ in stereo, but most of what I want doesn't need
to be because the original was in mono (the Goon Show, for instance).
And most of the rest doesn't need to be (do I really need to know the
exact positions of the panellists on "Just a Minute"? I prefer to use
two ears rather than one, they have their stereo separation way to
wide). Similarly, I'm quite happy with the MD LP4 quality (MP3
equivalent of about 50kbps, I think) for speech. And I compress the
bejazus out of it, to make it audible on trains (2:1 compression above
-30dB, with a 1:2 expander below -30dB and a limiter for overshoots)...
>> Freeview may be a problem, since the reason I got cable originally was
>> because I can't get a decent TV signal. But what would be recommended
>> for that (since I only want sound)?
>
> Was that ordinary analogue or digital? Do you just what to listen
> to it, or record it?
I want to record BBC7 for playing back on the train to/from work. BBC
Radio 3 I also need to record, but in better quality, to listen to later
(because I'm never in when programmes are broadcast -- if I were, I'd
listen to them 'live' and not need 2 VCRs, 2 MD decks (one portable) and
three computers controlling them).
One of the big problems with radio has always been that the programmes
people want to hear are never on at convenient times. Whereas any VCR
has several programme timers, and can record up to 8 hours (12 on some
models) each on a different channel, radio has been limited to "set a
mains timer switch and the channel" and a maximum of 60 minutes on
cassette tape, useless if you want to record more than one programme.
So I've missed most of the programmes because I don't get home early
enough.
I can now get 320 minutes on MD, and my computers control the MD deck
and the STB for cable, but there are still conflicts. And if I go away
it will overflow the MD or get programmes mixed or in the wrong quality
(I use LP2 for music, LP4 for speech).
Chris C
Chris Croughton
<fr...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> Tony Hoyle wrote:
>
>> On 4 Nov 2003 17:23:54 GMT, Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org>
>> wrote:
> [snip]
>
>>>You mean I have to decode an MPEG even if all I want is the sound?
>>
>> With the hauppauge it's a 'dumb' receiver - it just gives the raw MPEG
>> stream to the PC then you have to decode it manually, to split into
>> audio/video etc.
>
> That's with a budget card. Full featured DVB-t are now available that will
> h/w decode, or use mplayer with s/w decode, add a cheap DXR3 for h/w
> decode.
Sounds good, do uou have a model number? There are loads of Hauppage
cards around, and finding the specs of them is a pig (plus I'd rather
use one which other people have used and like).
>> It comes with 'doze software to do it, and there's
>> a linux driver (which was a bit beta the last time I looked at it but
>> that was over a year ago).
>
> Not sure of its current status, other than still in development, but it's
> been working well here since I found it around 2 years ago now. Add vdr
> (h/w decode required) and you have your own PVR.. and with remote control
> etc.
Well, yes. My current system is integrated (badly) into my sort-of-PVR
which uses the VCR and MD decks controlled by the computers, and the STB
by a special driver I wrote for the NTL Pace [124]000 STB. I'd prefer
a builtin system...
Chris C
Justin C
> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:22:27 +0000, Jonathan Buzzard
> <jona...@uk.me.buzzard> wrote:
>
>> You don't have to, all the BBC channels are broadcast free to air on
>> satellite now.
>
> I'd have to pay for installation and the Sky subscription (as far as I
> can make out from their site it's around 30 quid a month). I don't see
> any "install it and then go away, I'm not paying you any more" option...
>
80 GBP, it gets it's signal from your arial, no dish required. I'm
fortunate to have a friend who subscribed to ON Digital (who later
became ITV digital and then went bust) and was left with a useless STB.
He's since gone to Sky and I inherited the old STB which I use for the
Freeview channels - very happy I am with the situation too :)
www.bbc.co.uk/freeview has a "how to get it" link where you can tell it
your postcode and it'll tell you if the signal is in your area.
Equipment can be ordered from www.freeview.co.uk ... actually, they'll
direct you to where you can get it.
--
Justin C, by the sea.
Philip Armstrong
Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org> wrote:
>I'd have to pay for installation and the Sky subscription (as far as I
>can make out from their site it's around 30 quid a month). I don't see
>any "install it and then go away, I'm not paying you any more" option...
Recently the BBC announced that all BBC content was to be broadcast
unencrypted. If this is now the case, then an ordinary satellite dish
& DVB-S card will get you the BBC content.
However, ISTR that there were objections from people like the MPAA who
didn't believe that the transmission could be targetted well enough on
the UK alone to satisfy their coyright lawyers, so it may not have
gone ahead. (They're correct -- get a big enough dish & you'd be able
to receive the unencrypted transmissions from the outside the supposed
footprint of the signal. Whether this really matters -- you'd need the
space for a big dish & most people aren't going to be willing to stick
such a beast in their garden -- is moot.)
cheers,
Rich Daley
> I've not had trouble listening live to bbc7 using realplay. or radio4 live
> or "listen again".
>
> Never tried it with windows media vomit format in mplayer though.
FTR, I use mplayer to listen to bbc 6music in the WMA format, and it
works fine.
~ Rich
--
___
{o,o} ~ Rich <http://www.owlsound.co.uk/me/>
/) ) ri...@owl.me.uk
-"-"- ICQ# 60415679 | Jabber: o...@jabber.spodzone.org.uk
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> I'd have to pay for installation and the Sky subscription (as far as I
> can make out from their site it's around 30 quid a month). I don't see
> any "install it and then go away, I'm not paying you any more" option...
You can go with a lower package and get installed by an independent.
Mine's about a tenner a month (but I only get a few non-free channels. As I
only wanted Sky One anyway...)
It costs about 70 quid or so to do an install, IIRC.
shop around.
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> You can get a freeview package from the BBC, the decoder is about
> 80 GBP, it gets it's signal from your arial, no dish required. I'm
> fortunate to have a friend who subscribed to ON Digital (who later
> became ITV digital and then went bust) and was left with a useless STB.
Hardly useless...
I was with On Digital and got the free digibox out of it...
It's very useful if I want to, say, record BBC3 or BBC7 and watch Sky One at
the same time.
> He's since gone to Sky and I inherited the old STB which I use for the
> Freeview channels - very happy I am with the situation too :)
> www.bbc.co.uk/freeview has a "how to get it" link where you can tell it
> your postcode and it'll tell you if the signal is in your area.
> Equipment can be ordered from www.freeview.co.uk ... actually, they'll
> direct you to where you can get it.
Problem with that is, the coverage of freeview is still very patchy, and as
he said, he's in a bad reception area.
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> In article <slrnbqhr9d...@ccserver.keris.net>,
> Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org> wrote:
>>I'd have to pay for installation and the Sky subscription (as far as I
>>can make out from their site it's around 30 quid a month). I don't see
>>any "install it and then go away, I'm not paying you any more" option...
> Recently the BBC announced that all BBC content was to be broadcast
> unencrypted. If this is now the case, then an ordinary satellite dish
> & DVB-S card will get you the BBC content.
> However, ISTR that there were objections from people like the MPAA who
> didn't believe that the transmission could be targetted well enough on
> the UK alone to satisfy their coyright lawyers, so it may not have
> gone ahead.
Well, I did notice all BBC1 regions had suddenly appeared on the sky box a
while ago, so they're unlocked for sky viewers and ARE probably unencrypted.
Justin C
<spi...@freenet.co.uk> wrote:
> Justin C <jus...@masonsmusic.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Hardly useless...
Well, it was to my friend for quite some time before Freeview came
along.
> I was with On Digital and got the free digibox out of it...
> It's very useful if I want to, say, record BBC3 or BBC7 and watch Sky One at
> the same time.
I take it you mean with the second STB that you have, you haven't found
a way of getting more than one channel out of one STB at a time have
you?
>> Equipment can be ordered from www.freeview.co.uk ... actually, they'll
>> direct you to where you can get it.
>
> Problem with that is, the coverage of freeview is still very patchy, and as
> he said, he's in a bad reception area.
Ah, I missed that part of the thread.
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> I take it you mean with the second STB that you have, you haven't found
> a way of getting more than one channel out of one STB at a time have
> you?
You mean you CAN?
Without Sky+?
Chris Croughton
<jus...@masonsmusic.co.uk> wrote:
> On 5 Nov 2003 12:29:39 GMT, Chris Croughton
> <ch...@keristor.org> wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:22:27 +0000, Jonathan Buzzard
>> <jona...@uk.me.buzzard> wrote:
>>
>>> You don't have to, all the BBC channels are broadcast free to air on
>>> satellite now.
>>
>> I'd have to pay for installation and the Sky subscription (as far as I
>> can make out from their site it's around 30 quid a month). I don't see
>> any "install it and then go away, I'm not paying you any more" option...
>>
> You can get a freeview package from the BBC, the decoder is about
> 80 GBP, it gets it's signal from your arial, no dish required.
See earlier in the thread. My house doesn't get a watchable analogue
signal which is why I had cable installed (but a friend's DAB receiver
does work here reasonably).
> www.bbc.co.uk/freeview has a "how to get it" link where you can tell it
> your postcode and it'll tell you if the signal is in your area.
It's probably in my area but not round my house, like the analogue TV
sugnals.
> Equipment can be ordered from www.freeview.co.uk ... actually, they'll
> direct you to where you can get it.
Can I send it back if it doesn't work in my house and get a refund?
Also, does their equipment have a digital sound output? If not then
it's probably no better than cable or Sky (take a lossy-compressed
digital signal and convert it to analogue, then convert back to digital
at probably a different sample rate and with added noise).
Chris C
fruit
> On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:29:57 +0000, fruit
> <fr...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Tony Hoyle wrote:
>>
>>> On 4 Nov 2003 17:23:54 GMT, Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org>
>>> wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>>>>You mean I have to decode an MPEG even if all I want is the sound?
>>>
>>> With the hauppauge it's a 'dumb' receiver - it just gives the raw MPEG
>>> stream to the PC then you have to decode it manually, to split into
>>> audio/video etc.
>>
>> That's with a budget card. Full featured DVB-t are now available that
>> will h/w decode, or use mplayer with s/w decode, add a cheap DXR3 for h/w
>> decode.
>
> Sounds good, do uou have a model number?
It was boought as a Hauppauge Nova-t PCI, I believe it is Rev 2.1 (I can
check if you wish), whereas current is Rev 2.6 IIRC, and I think supported.
Currently I run it in parallel with a DVB-s card (without dish) for h/w
decode, but have used DXR3 and even mplayer with s/w decode.
I can't remembee whether DXR3 gives digital output, but I'm sure the DVB-s
does. ebay is a useful source for any of these cards, but make sure they
work enough to satisfy your needs - I've read it's relatively easy to burn
out the video output - not sure wether that would be enough to get around
TV licencing ;)
> There are loads of Hauppage
> cards around, and finding the specs of them is a pig (plus I'd rather
> use one which other people have used and like).
>
>>> It comes with 'doze software to do it, and there's
>>> a linux driver (which was a bit beta the last time I looked at it but
>>> that was over a year ago).
>>
>> Not sure of its current status, other than still in development, but it's
>> been working well here since I found it around 2 years ago now. Add vdr
>> (h/w decode required) and you have your own PVR.. and with remote control
>> etc.
>
> Well, yes. My current system is integrated (badly) into my sort-of-PVR
> which uses the VCR and MD decks controlled by the computers, and the STB
> by a special driver I wrote for the NTL Pace [124]000 STB. I'd prefer
> a builtin system...
I'm still running this on my desktop machine, but it's getting quite
sophisticated now. I download listings from ananova and can then set to
record from a program list, or program from my personal
http::/www.tvtv.co.uk page - possible from anywhere in the world if you set
the machine to log on at intervals - I assume this will do the radio
channels too, but haven't checked.
Philip Armstrong
Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org> wrote:
>> Equipment can be ordered from www.freeview.co.uk ... actually, they'll
>> direct you to where you can get it.
>
>Can I send it back if it doesn't work in my house and get a refund?
Ask the retailer and see? A DTV card will cost you all of 60 UKP
IIRC. Freeview boxes are about the same.
>Also, does their equipment have a digital sound output? If not then
>it's probably no better than cable or Sky (take a lossy-compressed
>digital signal and convert it to analogue, then convert back to digital
>at probably a different sample rate and with added noise).
From a standard PCI DTV card you get the raw mpeg stream. You can then
do whatever you like with that data. I feed mine to mplayer mostly...
You'll have to look at the individual standalone boxes to see if any
of them have digital audio out.
Justin C
> Without Sky+?
Dunno about Sky+, don't have access to it and don't want any
subscription only TV... in fact, if it wasn't for the good woman I'd
have no TV at all, it's a complete time-sink.
Jonathan Buzzard
ph...@kantaka.co.uk (Philip Armstrong) writes:
> In article <slrnbqhr9d...@ccserver.keris.net>,
> Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org> wrote:
>>I'd have to pay for installation and the Sky subscription (as far as I
>>can make out from their site it's around 30 quid a month). I don't see
>>any "install it and then go away, I'm not paying you any more" option...
>
> Recently the BBC announced that all BBC content was to be broadcast
> unencrypted. If this is now the case, then an ordinary satellite dish
> & DVB-S card will get you the BBC content.
This is indeed the case. You would need to contact a local aerial
installer to fit the dish, and get a receiver from somewhere. A
Haupaugge DVB-S card would do the trick.
> However, ISTR that there were objections from people like the MPAA who
> didn't believe that the transmission could be targetted well enough on
> the UK alone to satisfy their coyright lawyers, so it may not have
> gone ahead. (They're correct -- get a big enough dish & you'd be able
> to receive the unencrypted transmissions from the outside the supposed
> footprint of the signal. Whether this really matters -- you'd need the
> space for a big dish & most people aren't going to be willing to stick
> such a beast in their garden -- is moot.)
More exactly 20th Century Fox started making noises. Which is of
course a News Corporation Company, which also happens to own a large
chunk of BSkyB, which is busy loosing customers because they no longer
need to subscribe to Sky to get BBC channels.
Jonathan Buzzard
Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org> writes:
[SNIP]
>
> See earlier in the thread. My house doesn't get a watchable analogue
> signal which is why I had cable installed (but a friend's DAB receiver
> does work here reasonably).
What does this site say for you?
http://www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tvd.exe?
Also what is the terrain profile like from this site
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/terrain.html
As a point of note, the transmitter that I use for Freeview also
provides analogue signals, which I would describe as not acceptable
for viewing. However it is more than adequate for digital.
However I did have to install a much larger aerial to achieve
this. My personal aerial of choice is the Televis DAT75, complete
with MRD, think of it as a well smart masthead amp built into the
pickup dipole.
>> www.bbc.co.uk/freeview has a "how to get it" link where you can tell it
>> your postcode and it'll tell you if the signal is in your area.
>
> It's probably in my area but not round my house, like the analogue TV
> sugnals.
Then a mini dish install and a DVB-S card is the way to go.
>> Equipment can be ordered from www.freeview.co.uk ... actually, they'll
>> direct you to where you can get it.
>
> Can I send it back if it doesn't work in my house and get a refund?
>
> Also, does their equipment have a digital sound output? If not then
> it's probably no better than cable or Sky (take a lossy-compressed
> digital signal and convert it to analogue, then convert back to digital
> at probably a different sample rate and with added noise).
>
You want the sort of products you can get of this page, though the
DEC-2000t which I have seems to be missing, and they seem unwilling
to sell the DEC-3000s (the satellite version) in the UK. Both these
connect via a USB cable.
http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/html/digitaltv_prod.htm
All this lot let you record the MPEG signal as broadcast by the BBC
direct to your hard disk undecoded. What you do from their is then up
to you. Personally I use madplay to decode them to wave files, the
ResampAudio program from this set of programs to do the resampling
http://www.tsp.ece.mcgill.ca/MMSP/Documents/Software/AFsp/AFsp.html
It uses better algorithms than sox does. I used to use CoolEdit 2000
under Windows for the editing, but I am now getting to grips with
Ardour under Linux for the same job. I then use Lame to turn them
into MP3's for my CD' based player.
Philip Armstrong
Jonathan Buzzard <jona...@uk.me.buzzard> wrote:
>More exactly 20th Century Fox started making noises. Which is of
>course a News Corporation Company, which also happens to own a large
>chunk of BSkyB, which is busy loosing customers because they no longer
>need to subscribe to Sky to get BBC channels.
Ah, that makes lots of sense. Depressing sense, but sense nonetheless.
Jim Hague
>Chris Croughton <ch...@keristor.org> wrote:
>I found that I can record the output from a realstream by switching capture
>on in alsamixer, but found the quality lacking. (need to play about with
>that sometime).
>
>There is a stream recorder out there, but alas, can't remember the name of
>it.
I can listen to Radio 7 fine with RA, but haven't managed to record it.
I've tried vsound, which looked promising, and it and RealPlayer works
fine for about 10-15 seconds and then crashes.
Like everyone else I want to record stuff for later listening. Actually,
what I want is TiVO-for-radio that gets the digital channels as well
as the usual ones, but just being able to record would be a good start.
I realise that DAB is lower quality than FreeView, but FreeView would mean
running a TV aerial feed around the house to where the server sits, and
that would be a complete hassle. But I can't turn up any DAB cards that
work with Linux. :-(
So, any suggestions for (a) a way of capturing RA streams, or (b) DAB
cards?
--
Jim Hague - j...@bear-cave.org.uk Never trust a computer you can't lift.
Philip Armstrong
Jim Hague <j...@bear-cave.org.uk> wrote:
>Like everyone else I want to record stuff for later listening. Actually,
>what I want is TiVO-for-radio that gets the digital channels as well
>as the usual ones, but just being able to record would be a good start.
>I realise that DAB is lower quality than FreeView, but FreeView would mean
>running a TV aerial feed around the house to where the server sits, and
>that would be a complete hassle. But I can't turn up any DAB cards that
>work with Linux. :-(
>
>So, any suggestions for (a) a way of capturing RA streams, or (b) DAB
>cards?
Total speculation: I have a suspician that DAB is in fact encoded in
exactly the same way as the DTV broadcasts. If this was the case, then
a DTV card that was capable of receiving FM frequency signals (of
which there are several) should be able to pick up DAB signals as
well.
Such DTV cards exist and are supported by the linux DVB drivers at
least.
Jonathan Buzzard
ph...@kantaka.co.uk (Philip Armstrong) writes:
[SNIP]
>
> Total speculation: I have a suspician that DAB is in fact encoded in
> exactly the same way as the DTV broadcasts. If this was the case, then
> a DTV card that was capable of receiving FM frequency signals (of
> which there are several) should be able to pick up DAB signals as
> well.
>
> Such DTV cards exist and are supported by the linux DVB drivers at
> least.
However wrong speculation as I understand it. Your best bet really is
to run that TV aerial feed to the server.
Philip Armstrong
Jonathan Buzzard <jona...@uk.me.buzzard> wrote:
>In article <th2c81-...@trigger.kantaka.co.uk>,
> ph...@kantaka.co.uk (Philip Armstrong) writes:
>
>[SNIP]
>>
>> Total speculation: I have a suspician that DAB is in fact encoded in
>> exactly the same way as the DTV broadcasts. If this was the case, then
>> a DTV card that was capable of receiving FM frequency signals (of
>> which there are several) should be able to pick up DAB signals as
>> well.
>>
>> Such DTV cards exist and are supported by the linux DVB drivers at
>> least.
>
>However wrong speculation as I understand it. Your best bet really is
>to run that TV aerial feed to the server.
Both are using COFDM modulation I believe. DTV broadcasts in the UK
use QAM forward error correction, but QPSK (as used by DAB IIRC) is
part of the DTV standard supposedly, so a DTV card might support it.
This doesn't mean that there isn't some signalling difference which
makes DAB reception impossible with a DTV card of course, or it may be
that currently available DTV cards can't be set to receive signals
that use the DAB specific settings (eg the channel width setting may
be impossible to set, or perhaps all the DTV transmissions actually
use QAM & so none of the cards can do QPSK).
But there's a lot of commonality in the standards. The right card
might be able to do it. I'll ask on the linux-dvb lists -- there's
some real hardware people on there who might be able to give a
definitive answer.
fruit
> In article <th2c81-...@trigger.kantaka.co.uk>,
> ph...@kantaka.co.uk (Philip Armstrong) writes:
>
> [SNIP]
>>
>> Total speculation: I have a suspician that DAB is in fact encoded in
>> exactly the same way as the DTV broadcasts. If this was the case, then
>> a DTV card that was capable of receiving FM frequency signals (of
>> which there are several) should be able to pick up DAB signals as
>> well.
>>
>> Such DTV cards exist and are supported by the linux DVB drivers at
>> least.
>
> However wrong speculation as I understand it. Your best bet really is
> to run that TV aerial feed to the server.
Or stream it across your home network.
Philip Armstrong
The audio streams are certainly easily streamable over 802.11b if
wires aren't your thing as well. The video streams require more
bandwidth than 802.11b can provide unfortunately.
Simon Kelley
>
> I can listen to Radio 7 fine with RA, but haven't managed to record it.
> I've tried vsound, which looked promising, and it and RealPlayer works
> fine for about 10-15 seconds and then crashes.
ISTR that you need the -t option of vsound.
>
> Like everyone else I want to record stuff for later listening. Actually,
> what I want is TiVO-for-radio that gets the digital channels as well
> as the usual ones, but just being able to record would be a good start.
> I realise that DAB is lower quality than FreeView, but FreeView would mean
> running a TV aerial feed around the house to where the server sits, and
> that would be a complete hassle. But I can't turn up any DAB cards that
> work with Linux. :-(
>
> So, any suggestions for (a) a way of capturing RA streams, or (b) DAB
> cards?
Below is the srcipt I use. Combine it with at for timed recording, works
a treat.
#!/bin/bash
# record-real <url> time title
# url may be an alias defined below.
# time in minutes.
# output saved in <title>.mp3
# This script relies on the following:
# 1) Xvfb - virtual X server - also xvfb-run in the
# Debian package of same.
# 2) realplayer = set the path below.
# 3) vsound - sound-ripping wrapper - package in Debian.
# 4) sox - package in Debian.
# 5) lame - no Debian package - build from source.
# Change these on installation.
# where mp3s end up.
destdir=~srk/radio
# working dir, raw sound file go here. This needs to be big,
# a couple of megabytes per minute of recording.
spooldir=/bigdisc/radiospool
# path to realplayer binary.
realplaybin=/usr/local/RealPlayer8/realplay
url="$1"
# add more aliases here.
if [ "$1" = "6music" ]; then
url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/ram/dsatg2.ram
fi
if [ "$1" = "bbc7" ]; then
url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbc7/realplayer/dsatg2.ram
fi
if [ "$1" = "radio4" ]; then
url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/realplayer/media/fmg2.ram
fi
cd $spooldir
kill `ps | grep realplay | awk '{ print $1 }'` 2>/dev/null
vsound -t -n -f radio.au xvfb-run "$realplaybin $url" &
VSOUND_PID=$!
let time=($2+1)*60
sleep $time
kill `ps | grep realplay | awk '{ print $1 }'` 2>/dev/null
wait $VSOUND_PID
sox radio.au -t wav - | lame - $destdir/`date +$3`.mp3
rm radio.au
-----------------------------------------------------
Cheers,
Simon.
Ian McConnell
> Jim Hague wrote:
>> In article <kblaob...@freenet.co.uk>, <spi...@freenet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I can listen to Radio 7 fine with RA, but haven't managed to record it.
>> I've tried vsound, which looked promising, and it and RealPlayer works
>> fine for about 10-15 seconds and then crashes.
>
> ISTR that you need the -t option of vsound.
That's the important bit.
> Below is the srcipt I use. Combine it with at for timed recording, works a
> treat.
[SNIP]
> # working dir, raw sound file go here. This needs to be big,
> # a couple of megabytes per minute of recording.
> spooldir=/bigdisc/radiospool
> # path to realplayer binary.
> realplaybin=/usr/local/RealPlayer8/realplay
So long as you have a reasonable spec machine (I have a 400MHz celery), you
can save a lot of disk space by using a pipe instead of recording to disk.
Also if you use the command line version "trplayer" you don't need xvfb.
Here's the script I use to record ram files.
#!/bin/bash
lame=$(echo lame --quiet --ty $(date +%Y) --tc $(date +%a_%d_%b_%Y))
while [ $# -ne 0 ]; do
file=$1
if [ "$(echo $file | sed s/.*\.ram//)" == "" ]; then
ext=".ram"
else
ext=".rpm"
fi
out=$(basename $file $ext)
( vsound -t -s trplayer -n -q $file ) | sox -t au - -t wav - | $lame -h --pres
et radio - $out.mp3
shift
done
--
"Thinks: I can't think of a thinks. End of thinks routine": Blue Bottle
** Aunty Spam says: Remove the trailing x from the To: field to reply **
Jim Hague
Ian McConnell <i...@emit.demon.co.ukx> wrote:
>Simon Kelley <si...@thekelleys.org.uk> writes:
>> ISTR that you need the -t option of vsound.
>
>That's the important bit.
>
>> Below is the srcipt I use. Combine it with at for timed recording, works a
>> treat.
Thanks very much. I've been stuck away from my desktop for a while,
but this is top of the to-do list when I get back.
> "Thinks: I can't think of a thinks. End of thinks routine": Blue Bottle
Copious sausinges to both of you.