Why the Undernet cannot censor kid porn channels
Bill Robinson
Chris Campbell wrote:
>
> Look, I am not an expert, so I'm going to put this in a way I can
> understand it I hope.
>
> If IRC servers, specifically Undernet.Org servers, were to start banning
> channels based on content, then they can and would be held liable for all
> that goes on in every channel. Each of the servers has some sort of
> administration, and these groups (admins) put out their respective rules in
> the MOTD's. If you read the MOTD's, you will see that they all say that
> they cannot be held liable for what goes on in the IRC. So RevWhite and Don
> Ellis and the IRC Watch groups are basically wasting their breath trying to
> convince the people who run the actual servers to drop certain channels.
>
If you also read the /motd very closely it says, "We can deny service to
ANYONE for any reason" That means anyone. Me, you, RevWhite, porn
channels etc. It is a free service. If it were a paid service perhaps
what you say above would be true. Undernet has the right to ban anyone
they wish to.
> G-Lining or K-Lining for abuse of IRC is a different story. If enough
> people complain about the abuse of a certain person, or persons, or domain,
> a person or persons or domain can and will be k- or g-lined. This is in
> order to maintain the integrity of the Undernet as a whole. I use integrity
> not in the moralistic sense, but rather in the cohesiveness meaning.
Agreed here. But, gline abuses do occur. Flooders need to be thrown off.
>
> If RevWhite, or Don Ellis, or whoever (I have to admit I am not
> knowledgeable enough to see past spoofed addresses so I am terribly
> confused as to who is who) is or has been banned from one or more servers
> on the UnderNet, this was done because of denial of service attacks
> (flooding, usually) by these individuals, and not because of the content of
> what they say.
>
They have been banned just for speaking out also. That is equally wrong,
if they are flooding that is understandable. But I have seen one of them
glined because they just felt like it. No reasoning behind it.
> I think we all have it in our best interest to allow these people to vent
> their frustrations, because to shut them up would be to deny them their
> first amendment rights. And none of us want to do that.
I pretty much support that one also.
>
> Personally, I wish they would realize and understand just what I, and Jeff,
> and others have told them.... to whit: Undernet.Org, and CService.Org
> cannot, and will not, censor channels without proof of crimes committed.
> Because a channel has a topic that one finds offensive is not a crime.
> Because there are people on that channel one finds offensive is not a
> crime. Because there are people on that channel who say they have pics of
> naked little children is not a crime. The only crime is when someone
> uploads or downloads those pics across State or National boundaries.
>
buzzzz. Wrong. If a magazine has a ad promoting child porn pics, the
Feds step right in. It is illegal to advertise you have child porn pics.
But my concern is even more than that. If you ever join one of these
channels, you will always see people asking what state you live in. I
admit, I have joined those channels and lied about my age. Propsitions
for me to meet them naturally followed. You get the point. They do try
to lure children into meeting them. Can Undernet stop this, probably not
but they can sure denounce the hell out of it. And upon it being caught,
they should gline the person and report him to the authorities. I will
help Undernet with this if they choose to allow me to do so.
> Please, RevWhite, and Don, and PSBread, please.....
>
> Go into the channels you find offensive using aliases if necessary. Please
> turn on channel logging and Private chat logging.
> Please submit those logs to CService.Org or to the authorities, then let
> those authorities do their job.
We do that at IRC Watch, it is part of our program except that Undernet
says they want nothing to do with IRC Watch.
>
> In the meantime, please keep ranting your heart out, because as long as you
> have the right to do so, that means I am still defending a country which
> allows it.
I feel the purpose in the ranting(which has gone to far on both sides)
is that it has brought the subject out in the spotlight. RevWhite,
Mandar Marishi, Don Ellis, Wild Angel need to stop acting like children
and start talking like adults.
>
> Chris
> --
> Chris Campbell
> camp...@citizen.infi.net
> http://campbellc.pdc-east.org
Chris, if just a few more people talked like you, this flaming would
stop. And ugggh I hope it does.
I also though do support IRC Watch and the campaign against child porn
on IRC. Perhaps RevWhite's and Don Ellis approach is odd, but it has
caught everyones attention. What needs to happen is that RevWhite,
Mandar and Don Ellis need to step aside and let moderates like me and
Chris and other irc operators form a solution to this. And it does need
to be answered, one thing I do 100% agree on that even both sides agree
is that we don't want Feds telling people how to run IRC. So it does
involve a little policing. And guys, stop the damn flaming. It really is
Bullshit.
Bill Robinson
Hanover, PA (potato chip city)
IRC Watch of Lower Pennsylvania
Mandar Mirashi
In article <32CF6E...@hotmail.com>,
Bill Robinson <bigg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Chris Campbell wrote:
>>
>> If IRC servers, specifically Undernet.Org servers, were to start banning
>> channels based on content, then they can and would be held liable for all
>> that goes on in every channel. Each of the servers has some sort of
>> administration, and these groups (admins) put out their respective rules in
>> the MOTD's. If you read the MOTD's, you will see that they all say that
>> they cannot be held liable for what goes on in the IRC. So RevWhite and Don
>> Ellis and the IRC Watch groups are basically wasting their breath trying to
>> convince the people who run the actual servers to drop certain channels.
>>
>If you also read the /motd very closely it says, "We can deny service to
>ANYONE for any reason" That means anyone. Me, you, RevWhite, porn
>channels etc. It is a free service. If it were a paid service perhaps
>what you say above would be true. Undernet has the right to ban anyone
>they wish to.
A "channel" is not a "person". A channel exists on servers all around the
world. And this has nothing to do with it being a paid service or not. We
cannot ban a channel however we do ban persons. If a channel is suspected
to have illegal activity we directly report it to law enforcement agencies,
and let _them_ handle it.
>
>They have been banned just for speaking out also.
Let's see where they have been banned.
1) On an Undernet mailing list -no, not for speaking out, but for failure
to follow the charter of the list (a list used ONLY for routing issues).
2) On an Undernet channel - again, chanops decide who gets banned on a
channel. Channels are like houses. If you don';t like someone in your
house, you're free to ban the person.
>That is equally wrong,
>if they are flooding that is understandable.
Yes, "RevWhite" has been caught flooding channels he disagrees with.
>But I have seen one of them
>glined because they just felt like it. No reasoning behind it.
After their misleading propaganda campaign, is this really a surprise?
Just a while ago you supported the assertion that servers may ban
whomever they wish - however you're upset when the rule applies to
your friends?
>to lure children into meeting them. Can Undernet stop this, probably not
>but they can sure denounce the hell out of it. And upon it being caught,
>they should gline the person and report him to the authorities.
And this is routinely done. Child porn/molestation is a heinous crime
and should be punishable by the full extent of the law. We work with not
only law enforcement but also citizen groups against crime.
>
>We do that at IRC Watch, it is part of our program except that Undernet
>says they want nothing to do with IRC Watch.
We don't want to do anything with organizations that support racists such
as "RevWhite", nor do we support taking the law into our own hands. We
support organizations that work with law enforcement agencies and within
the law.
>
>I also though do support IRC Watch and the campaign against child porn
>on IRC. Perhaps RevWhite's and Don Ellis approach is odd, but it has
>caught everyones attention.
I wouldn't exactly call racist remarks "odd" or their misleading
propaganda that we support child porn, when we clearly don't and
work with law enforcement towards stopping it.
>What needs to happen is that RevWhite,
>Mandar and Don Ellis need to step aside and let moderates like me and
>Chris and other irc operators form a solution to this.
Perhaps you should ask Don Ellis and RevWhite to stop their misleading
propaganda? *grin* And we see through your attempt to paint me as a
"non-moderate". I have given reasonable responses to questions raised.
I've explained what we do to stop child porn and how we combat it. If
you have a solution that does not involve taking the law into our own
hands and doesn't expose us to legal liability, we'd be more than willing
to listen. However, don't expect a kind response when you support racism
on one hand and denounce child porn on the other.
>to be answered, one thing I do 100% agree on that even both sides agree
>is that we don't want Feds telling people how to run IRC.
But we do need them involved in stopping crime. IRC administrators
are NOT policemen, nor are they paid to do so. You pay your tax dollars
to support law enforcement and I see no reason why you should resist
an attempt to involve them in combating crime, especially since it
is their job to do so.
Mmmm
--
Mandar Mirashi
Maintainer: ftp.undernet.org, Undernet IRC FAQ.
ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/alt.irc.undernet
For IRC help/Undernet information, check out http://www.undernet.org
Chris Campbell
Look, I am not an expert, so I'm going to put this in a way I can
understand it I hope.
If IRC servers, specifically Undernet.Org servers, were to start banning
channels based on content, then they can and would be held liable for all
that goes on in every channel. Each of the servers has some sort of
administration, and these groups (admins) put out their respective rules in
the MOTD's. If you read the MOTD's, you will see that they all say that
they cannot be held liable for what goes on in the IRC. So RevWhite and Don
Ellis and the IRC Watch groups are basically wasting their breath trying to
convince the people who run the actual servers to drop certain channels.
G-Lining or K-Lining for abuse of IRC is a different story. If enough
people complain about the abuse of a certain person, or persons, or domain,
a person or persons or domain can and will be k- or g-lined. This is in
order to maintain the integrity of the Undernet as a whole. I use integrity
not in the moralistic sense, but rather in the cohesiveness meaning.
If RevWhite, or Don Ellis, or whoever (I have to admit I am not
knowledgeable enough to see past spoofed addresses so I am terribly
confused as to who is who) is or has been banned from one or more servers
on the UnderNet, this was done because of denial of service attacks
(flooding, usually) by these individuals, and not because of the content of
what they say.
I think we all have it in our best interest to allow these people to vent
their frustrations, because to shut them up would be to deny them their
first amendment rights. And none of us want to do that.
Personally, I wish they would realize and understand just what I, and Jeff,
and others have told them.... to whit: Undernet.Org, and CService.Org
cannot, and will not, censor channels without proof of crimes committed.
Because a channel has a topic that one finds offensive is not a crime.
Because there are people on that channel one finds offensive is not a
crime. Because there are people on that channel who say they have pics of
naked little children is not a crime. The only crime is when someone
uploads or downloads those pics across State or National boundaries.
Please, RevWhite, and Don, and PSBread, please.....
Go into the channels you find offensive using aliases if necessary. Please
turn on channel logging and Private chat logging.
Please submit those logs to CService.Org or to the authorities, then let
those authorities do their job.
In the meantime, please keep ranting your heart out, because as long as you
have the right to do so, that means I am still defending a country which
allows it.
Chris
Must have been a Wild Angel
On Sun, 5 Jan 1997, Bill Robinson wrote:
> They have been banned just for speaking out also. That is equally wrong,
> if they are flooding that is understandable. But I have seen one of them
> glined because they just felt like it. No reasoning behind it.
This is just one example of the behavior exibited by the *cough*
esteemable RevWhite while using the Undernet.org IRC network.
Please note a few things.
THe UseriD DIEFAGS..remember the rev says he's not a racisit or hate
monger.
The IRCNAME/REAL NAME slot: niggers are filthy , nigger research
institute
THe NIcks lesboh8r, GayBasher, ircopfag, Diefaggot, Diequeer, etc..
This from the man who profess's to be a christian and not racisit.
Now NOte the Administrative impersonations and threats.
NICKS: KillJUdi,Diejudi (Judi is a former IRCop for the Undernet.org who
has been harrassed and stalked by the psydo RevWhite, somehow obtaining
her unlisted phone number and crank calling her and threatening her via
the phone, threatening her child, Obtained her home address and threatend
to "pay her a little visit")
Derrick, super-, Whizzfag : Impersonating IRCops and defaming their names
while at it.
This is just one example of the abuse that this individual has exibited on
the Undernet.org IRC network, it's administrative volunteers, and the
general popualtion that is not White, male and straight and believes in
the exact same things he does.
I hope this answers your question as to weather or not the bans were
justified. IF not I can provide about half a gig of logs in addition to
this example.
Angel
On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, Must have been a Wild Angel wrote:
> IRC log started Sat Oct 19 23:29
> *** Value of LOG set to ON
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: FAGBASHER FROM: WildWoman REASON : (flooder)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Breadman FROM: WildWoman REASON : (flooder)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: queersdie FROM: WildWoman REASON : (flooder)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: DIEFAGS FROM: WildWoman REASON : (flooder)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: wildnite FROM: WildWoman REASON : (flooder)
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: FAGBASHER FROM: WildWoman REASON : (flooder :\)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: DIEFAGS FROM: WildWoman REASON : (flooder :\)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Breadman FROM: WildWoman REASON : (flooder :\)
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: wildnite FROM: Helix REASON : (flooding.)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: DIEFAGS FROM: Helix REASON : (flooding.)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: FAGBASHER FROM: Helix REASON : (Flooding.)
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: RevWhite2 FROM: WildWoman REASON : (flooding)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Whizzfag FROM: WildWoman REASON : (flooding :\)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: DIEFAGS FROM: WildWoman REASON : (flooding, enuff)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: wildnite FROM: WildWoman REASON : (flooding, enuff)
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: ircopfags FROM: buff REASON : (nice nicks, remove the clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Diejudi FROM: buff REASON : (nice nicks, remove the clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: lesboh8r FROM: buff REASON : (nice nicks, remove the clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: GAYBASHER FROM: buff REASON : (nice nicks, remove the clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Diefaggot FROM: buff REASON : (nice nicks, remove the clones)
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: lesboh8r FROM: buff REASON : (hello ? clue phone calling, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE lose the clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: GAYBASHER FROM: buff REASON : (hello ? clue phone calling, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE lose the clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: ircopfags FROM: buff REASON : (hello ? clue phone calling, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE lose the clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Diejudi FROM: buff REASON : (hello ? clue phone calling, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE lose the clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Diefaggot FROM: buff REASON : (hello ? clue phone calling, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE lose the clones)
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Diequeers FROM: aaron REASON : (Don't clone buddy)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: KillJudi FROM: aaron REASON : (Don't clone buddy)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Derrick FROM: aaron REASON : (Don't clone buddy)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Tigerlee FROM: aaron REASON : (Don't clone buddy)
>
> *** KillJudi was Brea...@204.245.110.66 (Niggers are filthy) on channel *private*
> *** on irc via server Chicago-1.IL.US.Undernet.org
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: lesboh8r FROM: aaron REASON : (Lame cloner)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: KillJudi FROM: aaron REASON : (Lame cloner)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Derrick FROM: aaron REASON : (Lame cloner)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Tigerlee FROM: aaron REASON : (Lame cloner)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: super- FROM: aaron REASON : (Lame cloner)
>
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Derrick FROM: aaron REASON : (Lame cloner)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Tigerlee FROM: aaron REASON : (Lame cloner)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: super- FROM: aaron REASON : (Lame cloner)
>
> *** KillJudi was Die...@204.245.110.65 (Niggers are filthy) on channel *private*
> *** on irc via server Chicago-1.IL.US.Undernet.org
>
> * Tigerlee H Die...@204.245.110.65 (The Big 3)
> * super- Hiw Die...@204.245.110.65 (Nigger research institute)
>
> *** Checking on *204.245.110.65...
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Tigerlee FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (clones wont be tolerated no matter who you name them after..Please lose them NOW)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: cantouch FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (clones wont be tolerated no matter who you name them after..Please lose them NOW)
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Tigerlee FROM: Nicholas REASON : (huh huh, my turn. lame cloners (1))
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: cantouch FROM: Nicholas REASON : (huh huh, my turn. lame cloners (2))
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Derrick FROM: WildWoman REASON : (clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Tigerlee FROM: WildWoman REASON : (clones)
>
> * Derrick H Die...@204.245.110.65 (The Big 3)
> * KillJudi H Die...@204.245.110.65 (Niggers are filthy)
> * cantouch Hiw Die...@204.245.110.65 (Nigger research institute)
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: cantouch FROM: WildWoman REASON : (clones)
>
> *** Checking on *204.245.110.65...
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: cantouch FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (more clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Tigerlee FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (more clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Derrick FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (more clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: KillJudi FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (more clones)
>
> * lesboh8r H Die...@204.245.110.65 (The Big 3)
> * Derrick H Die...@204.245.110.65 (The Big 3)
> * KillJudi H Die...@204.245.110.65 (Niggers are filthy)
> * lesboh8r H Die...@204.245.110.65 (The Big 3)
>
> *** Checking on *204.245.110.65...
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Tigerlee FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (autoreconnecting clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Derrick FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (autoreconnecting clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: KillJudi FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (autoreconnecting clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: lesboh8r FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (autoreconnecting clones)
>
> * lesboh8r H Die...@204.245.110.65 (The Big 3)
> * Tigerlee H Die...@204.245.110.65 (The Big 3)
>
> *** Checking on *204.245.110.65...
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Derrick FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (will you give up already)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: KillJudi FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (will you give up already)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: lesboh8r FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (will you give up already)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Tigerlee FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (will you give up already)
>
> *** Checking on *204.245.110.65...
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: KillJudi FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (clones again and again and again)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Tigerlee FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (clones again and again and again)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: lesboh8r FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (clones again and again and again)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Derrick FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (clones again and again and again)
>
> * Tigerlee H Die...@204.245.110.65 (The Big 3)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Tigerlee FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (clones)
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: Tigerlee FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (clones)
>
> * llllllll Hiw ~brea...@204.245.110.65 (Nigger research institute)
> * lllsgs H Die...@204.245.110.65 (The Big 3)
> * abcdfff G Die...@204.245.110.65 (The Big 3)
> * sldfkdf H Die...@204.245.110.65 (Niggers are filthy)
> * sdlfklll H Die...@204.245.110.65 (The Big 3)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: llllllll FROM: WildWoman REASON : (sigh)
>
> *** Checking on *204.245.110.65...
>
> Sun Oct 20 00:12:07 PDT 1996
> *** Current value of LOG is ON
>
> Name: badial-balt4-65.IConNet.Net
> Address: 204.245.110.65
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: lllsgs FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (getting bolder now 'eh?? Please lose the clones NOW)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: abcdfff FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (getting bolder now 'eh?? Please lose the clones NOW)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: sldfkdf FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (getting bolder now 'eh?? Please lose the clones NOW)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: sdlfklll FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (getting bolder now 'eh?? Please lose the clones NOW)
>
> * lllsgs H Die...@204.245.110.65 (The Big 3)
> * sldfkdf H Die...@204.245.110.65 (Niggers are filthy)
> * sdlfklll H Die...@204.245.110.65 (The Big 3)
> * abcdfff H Die...@204.245.110.65 (The Big 3)
> * llllllll Hiw Die...@204.245.110.65 (Nigger research institute)
>
> *** Checking on *204.245.110.65...
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: lllsgs FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (Ok, last one..reload and your NEW isp will be notified )
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: sldfkdf FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (Ok, last one..reload and your NEW isp will be notified )
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: sdlfklll FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (Ok, last one..reload and your NEW isp will be notified )
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: abcdfff FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (Ok, last one..reload and your NEW isp will be notified )
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: llllllll FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (Ok, last one..reload and your NEW isp will be notified )
> * llllllll H Die...@204.245.110.65 (Nigger research institute)
>
> *** Launching UNIX finger on:^Bllllllll [Die...@204.245.110.65] ^B
> [204.245.110.65]
> connect: Connection refused
>
> * sdlfklll H Die...@204.245.110.65 (The Big 3)
> * llllllll Hiw Die...@204.245.110.65 (Nigger research institute)
>
> Trace: -> London.UK.eu.Undernet.org -> washington-r.dc.us.undernet.org ->
> ^B[lowell.ma.us.undernet.org-llllllll]^B
>
> lowell. ^BUser Class^B [1] 1C ==> llllllll[204.245.110.65]
>
> *** Checking on *204.245.110.65...
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: sldfkdf FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (clone will NOT be tolerated on this network..)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: sdlfklll FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (clone will NOT be tolerated on this network..)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: lllsgs FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (clone will NOT be tolerated on this network..)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: llllllll FROM: [[[angel] REASON : (clone will NOT be tolerated on this network..)
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: lllsgs FROM: aaron REASON : (Administrative Contact: Harmolin, Scott (SH126) s...@ICONNET.COM <--there you go angel)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: llllllll FROM: aaron REASON : (Administrative Contact: Harmolin, Scott (SH126) s...@ICONNET.COM <--there you go angel)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: abcdfff FROM: aaron REASON : (Administrative Contact: Harmolin, Scott (SH126) s...@ICONNET.COM <--there you go angel)
>
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: sdlfklll FROM: aaron REASON : (clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: sldfkdf FROM: aaron REASON : (clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: lllsgs FROM: aaron REASON : (clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: abcdfff FROM: aaron REASON : (clones)
> #*#* KILL *#*# FOR: llllllll FROM: aaron REASON : (clones)
>
>
> 01:17:49 jubjub:~ $traceroute 204.245.110.65
> traceroute to 204.245.110.65 (204.245.110.65), 30 hops max, 40 byte
> packets
> 1 mci1.wizard.com (199.171.28.1) 3 ms 2 ms 2 ms
> 2 border1-serial2-7.LosAngeles.mci.net (204.70.171.37) 12 ms 11 ms 10
> ms
> 3 core1-fddi-0.LosAngeles.mci.net (204.70.170.17) 17 ms 254 ms 34 ms
> 4 core2-aip-4.LosAngeles.mci.net (204.70.1.218) 16 ms 13 ms 24 ms
> 5 core1-hssi-2.SanFrancisco.mci.net (204.70.1.153) 35 ms 20 ms 35 ms
> 6 border3-fddi-0.SanFrancisco.mci.net (204.70.2.163) 27 ms 85 ms 41
> ms
> 7 iconnet.west.cix.net (149.20.64.4) 36 ms 35 ms 40 ms
> 8 ATM1-0-7.balt01.IConNet.NET (204.245.127.249) 115 ms 84 ms 84 ms
> 12 * * *
> <snip the 9-30 * * *>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Ange...@wizard.com IRC Admin Irc.Wizard.Com
> Ange...@alias.undernet.org IRC Operator London.Uk.Eu.Undernet.org
> Cell: 702 373 0864 Beep: 702 678 2104
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Look beyond your own soul, and the person that you see just might remind
> you of me. I laugh, I love, I hope, I try. I hurt, I need, I fear, I
> cry, and I know you do the same things too. So were really not that
> different, no we're really not that different....me and you.... -c.r.-
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> [Part 2, "" Text/PLAIN 223 lines]
> [Not Shown. Use the "V" command to view or save this part]
>
>