Yet more digital cable newbie questions!
rt
A few questions if I may about digital cable (incidently, any reference to a
decent FAQ or WWW with good overview info would be terrific)-
-Am I to understand that the picture qualty of channels 2-99 are essentially
the same, digital versus analog, and that digital doesn't really "begin"
until 100+ or am I misinformed?
-I was hoping that digital cable would provide comparable picture quality to
DSS. Any comments?
-Will the cable coming into my house contain analog and digital cable
signal, and can I split before the digital box to a analog TV tuner without
problem? If yes, can I split AFTER the box, or does it depend whether the
box has RF passthrough.
-I have read about some difficulty with DD 5.1 in digital cable. Is this
generally true or normally is DD5.1 no problem. Do all digital cable boxes
have digital output to related audio components as well, and do all pass 5.1
as well?
Thanks all, feel free to elaborate or point out misconceptions I may have.
I may finally leave DSS and don't really have the opportunity to "see"
digital cable (and forget about talking to the reps here.... arrrrgh!)
Robert
Jim Fraas
"rt" <TurnerrePl...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6gNd6.437$G62....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Well, with that backdrop...
>
> A few questions if I may about digital cable (incidently, any reference to
a
> decent FAQ or WWW with good overview info would be terrific)-
>
> -Am I to understand that the picture qualty of channels 2-99 are
essentially
> the same, digital versus analog, and that digital doesn't really "begin"
> until 100+ or am I misinformed?
>
Generally yeah. Usually secured channels below 100 are duplicates of
digital channels
> -I was hoping that digital cable would provide comparable picture quality
to
> DSS. Any comments?
>
Yes it depends upon the level of compression
> -Will the cable coming into my house contain analog and digital cable
> signal, and can I split before the digital box to a analog TV tuner
without
> problem? If yes, can I split AFTER the box, or does it depend whether the
> box has RF passthrough.
>
yes
> -I have read about some difficulty with DD 5.1 in digital cable. Is this
> generally true or normally is DD5.1 no problem. Do all digital cable
boxes
> have digital output to related audio components as well, and do all pass
5.1
> as well?
>
No DD yet
Lord Xarph and his Exploding Outhouse
news:6gNd6.437$G62....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> -Am I to understand that the picture qualty of channels 2-99 are
essentially
> the same, digital versus analog, and that digital doesn't really "begin"
> until 100+ or am I misinformed?
You are correct. Three digit numbered stations are digital; 1 or 2 digit
stations are analog. Inside the digital region, there are subdivisions based
on the first digit (5 representing premium movie channels, 9 representing
DMX music stations, etc).
> -I was hoping that digital cable would provide comparable picture quality
to
> DSS. Any comments?
The bitrate of Digital Cable channels is significantly lower than DSS; a
little underneath standard MPEG-1 VCD bitrate (1.5Mb/sec).
> -Will the cable coming into my house contain analog and digital cable
> signal, and can I split before the digital box to a analog TV tuner
without
> problem? If yes, can I split AFTER the box, or does it depend whether the
> box has RF passthrough.
Split it before the box. I am not entirely sure that the box supports RF
passthrough; in my neighborhood it's useless even if it did - we have the
clunky A/B dual feed set up that I swear to $DEITY has not changed since it
was GillCable in the 70s.
> -I have read about some difficulty with DD 5.1 in digital cable. Is this
> generally true or normally is DD5.1 no problem. Do all digital cable
boxes
> have digital output to related audio components as well, and do all pass
5.1
> as well?
My DCT-2000 gives RF out and 3 RCA outputs (LRV). No digital output is
supported.
The DCT-2000 sucks so hard it could pull a watermelon through a garden hose.
> Thanks all, feel free to elaborate or point out misconceptions I may have.
> I may finally leave DSS and don't really have the opportunity to "see"
> digital cable (and forget about talking to the reps here.... arrrrgh!)
You will miss DSS. I guarantee it.
-Lx?
--
Lord Xarph
xa...@xarph.net
Fax: 1-530-654-5116
By the act of sending any email advertising a product, service, or financial
opportunity to any address containing the phrase "xarph", you grant full
permission for the owner of said address to take formal action against you.
This action will include forfeiture of your internet access and possible
financial damages. HR 3113 be damned.
rt
Maybe I've not thought this through completely...
Your information regarding the bitrate of DC is enlightening, and not a
little disappointing.
I am shocked and horrified that DD5.1 has not caught on in the DC domain.
Why is technology often so much like dating a sorority chick?
Again, I appreciate the response,
Robert
"Lord Xarph and his Exploding Outhouse" <xa...@xarph.net> wrote in message
news:LYOd6.25900$Ch.52...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net...
SerenityNow
I agree with Lord Xarph's answers. I'd add that the quality of reception
for both digital cable and DSS varies from home to home depending on the
wiring from the headend to the TV and the quality of the incoming signal, so
there are plenty of exceptions, but: generally, digital cable channels come
in a bit better than analog cable channels, but not as well as DSS. DSS
local channels where available are usually much better than analog cable
local channels. Digital cable sound is not yet 5.1 here, either, and is
nothing special. You will see some compression artifacts as they keep
shoehorning more PPV and premium channels in. Lately, I haven't been
noticing the "motion" artifacts, where something in the picture that's
moving will have a stuttering, jittery quality, as much as I did a few
months ago, but I'm seeing lots of "fog" artifacts, where a foggy or
multi-colored sky or smoke will appear banded because the compressed digital
signal can't handle all the subtle information. Digital cable is worth a
try, but if I already had all the DSS gear, I'd probably want to stay with
it, myself. I know, the grass is always greener... The one big advantage
to cable over satellite is that if you have a bunch of cable-ready TV sets
in your house, you can run the cable to as many as you want without paying
an additional fee or having to buy or lease additional converters. Now if
you want *digital* channels at additional sets, you have to pay additional
charges and get more converters for that, but you can, as you ask, split the
incoming cable signal and send it to digital cable converter(s) at some
set(s) for an extra charge and just analog cable to others at no extra
change. That's fine with the cable company and it works well as long as you
amplify the signal properly to get a strong enough, but not too strong,
signal to each set, which can take some effort and money.
Curtis Joseph
company?/
Peter Georgeu
xa...@xarph.net wrote...
> "rt" <TurnerrePl...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:6gNd6.437$G62....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> You are correct. Three digit numbered stations are digital; 1 or 2 digit
> stations are analog. Inside the digital region, there are subdivisions based
> on the first digit (5 representing premium movie channels, 9 representing
> DMX music stations, etc).
>
> > -I was hoping that digital cable would provide comparable picture quality
> to
> > DSS. Any comments?
>
> The bitrate of Digital Cable channels is significantly lower than DSS; a
> little underneath standard MPEG-1 VCD bitrate (1.5Mb/sec).
I am with a different cable company (in Canada) but they use the the
Motorola DCT-2000HT boxes.
All cable companies in North America use one of two modulation schemes.
They either use QAM-64 or QAM-256. With QAM-64 they have a total bit
rate of 27 Mb/sec and with QAM-256 the total bitrate is 38 Mb/sec for
each 6 Mhz analog channel segment.
The Motorola DCT-1000 only supports QAM-64 whereas the DCT-2000 and DCT-
2000HT support both QAM-64 and QAM-256. Ideally the cable companies
would only have 6 digital channels in one segment but I do not know of
any who do. A few do have only 8 channels per 6 Mhz segment and I know
that Rogers in Canada use QAM-256 and have 10 channels per segment (thus
a bitrate of 3.8 Mb/sec theoretically). The norm is 12 channels per
segment and even if they only use QAM-64 you can see that 1.5 Mb/sec
seems awfully low. Are you sure that TCI in your area uses only that? I
have never heard of a cable company packing 18 channels on one 6 Mhz
segment (assuming they use only QAM-64)?
Peter
rt
"Curtis Joseph" <cjo...@interactive.rogers.com> wrote in message
news:29341-3A...@storefull-906.public.rwc.webtv.net...
Mike Rush
"rt" <TurnerrePl...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6gNd6.437$G62....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
essentially
> the same, digital versus analog, and that digital doesn't really "begin"
> until 100+ or am I misinformed?
In most systems, the channels below 100 are analog, that same analog
channels that people without digital service get.
>
> -I was hoping that digital cable would provide comparable picture quality
to
> DSS. Any comments?
That depends on your cable system. If they use HITS (Headend In The Sky) for
their digital channels, the signals are mostly compressed about 12 to one so
the picture quality is about the same or slightly worse than DSS, depending
on your set and your expectations. Some differences are more noticable to
some people than to others. Other cable companies, like the one where I
work, use other sources for their digital signals. For example, we get HBO
digital channels direct from HBO. On our digital service, none of the
signals are compressed more than 10:1, so our picture quality on some
channels can be better than DSS.
>
> -I have read about some difficulty with DD 5.1 in digital cable. Is this
> generally true or normally is DD5.1 no problem. Do all digital cable
boxes
> have digital output to related audio components as well, and do all pass
5.1
> as well?
Again, depends on the cable company. The DCT2000 we use have s-video and
coaxial digital audio outputs. Very little of the programming is actually in
5.1 DD, but it's not on DSS, either. Right now, only a few programs from
HBO, Showtime, Starz and Pay per view are being transmitted with DD 5.1
sound, for cable, DSS, or Dishnetwork.
rt
So picture quality varies from provider to provider I see..
I agree with you that there are slim pickens in the DD5.1 arena on DSS, but
will say my wife and I watch nearly every offering. I think we skipped a
Kung Fu movie with exploding gerbils, or something like that, but it is
something we do look for.
I wonder what questions I could ask my local TimeWarner folks to ascertain
quality?
Thanks for the help,
Robert
"Mike Rush" <ave...@killspamavenuecable.com> wrote in message
news:t7gpjse...@corp.supernews.com...
Mike Rush
"rt" <donts...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:X5_d6.4002$v16.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Interesting.
>
> So picture quality varies from provider to provider I see..
> quality?
The CSR's might not be much help on something like that. They might be able
to tell you if the get their digital stuff from HITS. You might try getting
a look at pictures at a neighbor'd house, or TW should have a demo set up at
their office so you could see the picture quality there. The analog stuff
might not be as good at your house as it is at their office, but the digital
should be the same, allowing for differences between your set and theirs. If
the system in your area has been rebuilt in the last couple of years, even
the analog channels should look fine at your house, maybe even better than
DSS.
rt
My neighbors are generally armed, so I will give their home office a shot
for a demo!
Thanks,
Robert
"Mike Rush" <ave...@killspamavenuecable.com> wrote in message
news:t7hcp1i...@corp.supernews.com...
Lord Xarph and his Exploding Outhouse
news:MPG.14e1f8187...@news.direct.ca...
> The norm is 12 channels per
> segment and even if they only use QAM-64 you can see that 1.5 Mb/sec
> seems awfully low. Are you sure that TCI in your area uses only that? I
> have never heard of a cable company packing 18 channels on one 6 Mhz
> segment (assuming they use only QAM-64)?
I was comparing the quality of the image with what I know of digital
compression, and the appearance of the image on our local TCI setup is
roughly the same as a standard Video CD, which is 1.5Mb. I'm surprised to
hear the bitrate is higher than that.
Apologies if I misled anyone; disregard my answer and go with Peter's; he
knows what he's talking about.
SerenityNow
> The CSR's might not be much help on something like that. They might be
able
> to tell you if the get their digital stuff from HITS.
Oh, yeah, cable TV CSRs are real helpful with stuff like this. "HITS??? Is
that one of the digital audio channels???" At least at our cable company,
CSR training extends to selling upgrades and taking complaints about service
outages, not to technical stuff. You might be able to get them to relay a
request for a callback from their technical staff to get some questions like
this answered, but I'd be very amazed if you got a CSR who could answer
technical questions about digital signal compression.
The best way to ascertain the quality is to get a free installation and try
it in your own home and decide for yourself. Especially if you can compare
it to DSS still running. Or see if a neighbor has digital cable, but even
that won't tell you what it would look like in your home on your sets.