In The Words of Our Forefathers- The Second Amendment & Citizens Militias
Tavish
From: Doc Tavish <tav...@spam-not.net>
Date: 1997/05/29
Message-ID: <338DE5...@spam-not.net>
Subject: In The Words of Our Forefathers- The Second Amendment &
Citizens Militias (REPOST December 8, 1999 [Revised from original])
Allan Matthews wrote:
>
> In article <338b40e1....@205.161.179.1>, csw...@labyrinth.net
> wrote:
> >On Mon, 26 May 1997 20:21:39 GMT, allan_m...@bigfoot.com (Allan
> >Matthews) wrote:
> >>That's why we have a Constitution in the first place; to protect us all
> >>from the tyranny of a majority to which we might not happen to belong.
> >>It is the Constitution, afterall, that keeps the government from enacting
> >>laws to curb your freedom to lie about the Holocaust and the other crimes
> >>of your Nazi heroes, Brian/Kurt. I would have thought that with all the
> >>pissing and moaning that you Nazi-wannabes do about limits on freedom
> >>of expression in Europe and other places that you'd understand this aspect
> >>of American democracy. Guess not, eh?
We are (supposed to be) a Constitutional Republic dimwit NOT a
Democracy!
> >Which government, state of federal? Consider the gun control issue: It
> >is spelled out quite plainly in the US Constitution that the federal
> >government cannot intervene on a citizen's right to bears arms.
> Um, no this is not what the 2nd amendment says. Just look up the Supreme
> Court's decisions on the subject. They are, afterall, the final arbiter.
What does shall not be infringed mean to you Allan? You fight for full
abortion rights because you don't want them infringed upon and our
founding fathers never discussed killing babies in the womb. You are
really a dangerous one!
> > Its nearly impossible to read it any other way.
> Bullcookies. Which National Guard unit do you belong to? They are,
> afterall, the decendents of the militia the 2nd amendment is talking about.
The National Guard is a federal entity Allan, the original militia was
not! Once again you show your ignorance! I just guess that you have been
associating with too many alien un-American people too long!
> allan
The original militia as defined by our forefathers was not a government
entity Allan! The original militia was a citizens militia! Not a federal
one. In the words of our forefathers for those that are ignorant:
Dedication: I dedicate Our forefather's dream to
Jeana Davis for giving me the courage to carry on.
Fine Words From Our Founding Fathers On What They Believed
And Wanted Pertaining to Citizens Militias- In Their Own
Words.
Please note that Doc Tavish's comments that he feels he
has to make to get the point across appear in [ ] brackets.
Note to Allan Matthews please pay close attention to what is said in
Federalist 46 and Federalist 28. We have a person in Congress that
wants to make what these declare null and void and make being in a
militia a federal crime. Jerrold Nadler and his HR 1544!
AMENDMENT 2 - THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the
security of a free State, the right of the people to keep
and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
James Madison, Journal of the Federal Convention, Vol.2
Mr. ELLSWORTH was for going as far, in submitting
the militia to the General Government, as might be necessary;
but thought the motion of Mr. MASON went too far. He moved,
"that the militia should have the same arms and exercise, and
be under rules established by the General Government when in
actual service of the United States; and when States neglect
to provide regulations for militia, it should be regulated and
established by the Legislature of the United States." The
whole authority over the militia ought by no means to be taken
away from the States, whose consequence would pine away to
nothing after such a sacrifice of power. He thought the
general authority could not sufficiently pervade the Union for
such a purpose, nor could it accommodate itself to the local
genius of the people. It must be Vain to ask the States to give
the militia out of their hands.
[Do the socialists in Congress appreciate State's rights or
military units independent of federal control today?]
Federalist Papers, James Madison, Number 46
The only refuge left for those who prophesy the downfall
of the State governments is the visionary supposition that the
federal government may previously accumulate a military force for
the projects of ambition. ...Let a regular army, fully equal to
the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely
at the devotion of the federal government: still it would not
be going too far to say that the State governments with the people
on their side would be able to repel the danger. The highest
number to which, according to the best computation, a standing
army can be carried in any country does not exceed one hundredth
part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the
number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the
United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand
men.
[This is to be the military force devoted to the federal government
and please note how many people made up a standing army!]
To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a
million of citizens [Citizen Militias] with arms in their hands,
officered by men chosen from among themselves [federal troops
would not be allowed to choose their officers would they?], fighting
for their common liberties and united and conducted by governments
possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted
whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such
a proportion of regular troops. [Notice that citizen militias were to
outnumber federal troops by at least 16 to 1] Those who are best
acquainted with the late successful resistance of this country
against the British arms will be most inclined to deny the
possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed,
which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other
nation [not for long if the socialists get their way], the existence
of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached and
by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against
the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a
simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the
military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe,
which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the
governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. [This is
also true of the Clinton Administration] And it is not certain that with
this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But
were the people to possess the additional advantages of local
governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national
will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the
militia by these governments and attached both to them and to the
militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance that the throne
of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of
the legions which surround it.
Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with
the suspicion that they would be less able to defend the rights
of which they would be in actual possession than the debased
subjects of arbitrary power would be to rescue theirs from the
hands of their oppressors. Let us rather no longer insult them
with the supposition that they can ever reduce themselves to the
necessity of making the experiment by a blind and tame submission
to the long train of insidious measures which must precede and
produce it. [How many socialists in Congress appreciate not
insulting us? How many of their anti-Constitutional dupes
understand our forefather's intentions?]
Federalist Papers, Alexander Hamilton, Number 28
If the representatives of the people betray their
constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion
of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all
positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations
of the national rulers may be exerted with infinitely better
prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an
individual State. In a single State, if the persons intrusted
with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels,
subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no
distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for
defense. The citizens [militias] must rush tumultuously to arms,
without concert, without system, without resource; except in
their courage and despair. The usurpers, clothed with the forms
of legal authority, can too often crush the opposition in embryo.
The smaller the extent of the territory, the more difficult will
it be for the people to form a regular or systematic plan of
opposition, and the more easy will it be to defeat their early
efforts. Intelligence can be more speedily obtained of their
preparations and movements, and the military force in the
possession of the usurpers can be more rapidly directed against
the part where the opposition has begun. In this situation there
must be a peculiar coincidence of circumstances to insure
success to the popular resistance.
[The current government of the United States looks at the above
in derision and disrespect. The way our government is currently
headed the more we have need for an entire populace of armed and
disciplined citizens.]
The Constitution, Article I, Section 8
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining,
the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be
employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the
States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the
Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline
prescribed by Congress.
James Madison, Journal of the Federal Convention, Vol.2
Mr. MASON moved, as an additional power, "to make laws
for the regulation and discipline of the militia of the several
States, reserving to the States the appointment of the
officers." He considered uniformity as necessary in the
regulation of the militia, throughout the Union.
Federalist Papers, Alexander Hamilton, Number 29
"The project of disciplining all the militia of the
United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were
capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness
in military movements is a business that requires time and
practice. It is not a day, nor a week nor even a month, that
will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body
of the yeomanry and of the other classes of the citizens to be
under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises
and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the
degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character
of a well-regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the
people and a serious public inconvenience and loss. It would
form an annual deduction from the productive labor of the
country to an amount which, calculating upon the present numbers
of the people, would not fall far short of a million pounds.
To attempt a thing which would abridge the mass of labor and
industry to so considerable an extent would be unwise: and the
experiment, if made, could not succeed, because it would not
long be endured.
Little more can reasonably be aimed at with respect to the
people at large than to have them properly armed and equipped;
and in order to see that this be not neglected, it will be
necessary to assemble them once or twice in the course of a
year." [Are the gun grabbers in Congress in accord with making
sure we are properly armed or disarmed?]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I advise those that are interested in preserving our freedoms
to reread this document many times, get their own personal
copies of the Federalist Papers, and join and support every
major gun rights group they can afford. People we are indeed
the last "free" nation on Earth. Don't contribute to enslaving
us by being complacent- you will suffer too! We can win this
struggle but it takes dedicated and focused people. Hecklers
need not respond- I don't have time for any foolishness!
Doc Tavish
Assaults on militias in Congress:
The following is anti-militia legislation that is presently being
pushed in Congress. Like the Brady Bill this stuff can sooner or
later become law if enough people don't speak up now. Our future
is at stake! Wake up America- it's not too late!
FILE h1544.ih Domestic Insurgency Act of 1995
104th CONGRESS
1st Session
To prohibit the formation of private paramilitary organizations.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
May 2, 1995
Mr. Nadler introduced the following bill; which was referred to
the Committee on the Judiciary
A BILL
To prohibit the formation of private paramilitary organizations.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Domestic Insurgency Act of 1995'.
SEC. 2. PARAMILITARY ORGANIZATIONS.
(a) In General: Chapter 115 of title 18, United States Code, is
amended by adding at the end the following:
`Sec. 2392. Paramilitary organizations
`(a) Whoever knowingly participates in a paramilitary
organization shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more
than 10 years, or both.
`(b) As used in this section, the term `paramilitary
organization' means two or more individuals acting together,
organized in a military or paramilitary structure, who knowingly--
`(1) possess firearms, explosives, incendiary devices, or
other weapons or techniques capable of causing injury or death
to individuals; or
`(2) provide or participate in training in the use of any
such weapons or techniques;
with the intention that such weapons or techniques be used
unlawfully to oppose the authority of the United States or of any
State or for any other unlawful purpose.'.
(b) Clerical Amendment: The table of sections at the beginning of
chapter 115 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding
at the end the following new item:
`2392. Paramilitary organizations.'.
[Notice the connections or conditions: the term `paramilitary
organization' means two or more individuals acting together,
organized in a military or paramilitary structure, who knowingly--
`(1) possess firearms, explosives, incendiary devices, or
other weapons or techniques capable of causing injury or death
to individuals;
You need only to possess firearms and be two or more people. The
conditions aren't stated that all have to be satisfied the connections
are OR not And. i.e. You don't have to have explosives and incendiary
devices to be a militia- you only have to have two or more people and
weapons! Get the point?!]
Here is some of Nadler's Congressional Record:
Congressional Record File
DEFENDING DEMOCRACY AGAINST TERRORISM (House of
Representatives May 10, 1995)
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under the Speaker's announced policy
of January 4, 1995, the gentleman from New York [Mr. Nadler]
is recognized for 45 minutes as the designee of the minority
leader.
I have introduced H.R . 1544, the Domestic Insurgency Act of 1995,
which would give our law enforcement officers the legal authority
they need to crack down on one major aspect of domestic terrorism-
-the private armies or militias that have recently proliferated
across our land. [This is it in plain English people he is speaking
of YOU ALL!!! Wake up! You will be federal criminals if HR1544
should become the law of the land!]
Now for Mr. Gun grabber himself Kremlin Gremlin Charles Schumer:
FILE h2580.ih
HR 2580 IH
104th CONGRESS
1st Session
To guarantee a republican form of government to the States by
preventing paramilitary violence.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
November 2, 1995
Mr. SCHUMER (for himself and Mr. CONYERS) introduced the following
bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
A BILL
To guarantee a republican form of government to the States by
preventing paramilitary violence.
[Italic->] Be it enacted by the Senate and House of
Representatives of the United States of America in Congress
assembled, [<-Italic]
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Republican Form of Government
Guarantee Act'.
SEC. 2. FINDINGS.
Congress finds that--
(1) section 4 of article IV of the Constitution provides that
the United States shall guarantee a republican form of
government to the States;
(2) organized criminal actions are an increasing threat to
the republican form of government in some States;
(3) people who are responsible for upholding the laws of the
United States and the several States, or people who assist
them, have been threatened, harassed, and assaulted because of
these activities;
(4) this violence is having a chilling effect on the
democratic process because Americans are afraid to participate
in town hall meetings, express their views publicly, or take
part in the political process;
(5) most victims are targeted solely because of their views
or activism on controversial political issues such as gun
control, abortion, environmental matters, or the role of
government in society;
(6) this violence is causing a breakdown of law and order in
many parts of the United States;
(7) this violence has increased in part because of unfounded
exaggerations about the impact of recent firearms laws such as
the Brady Law and the ban on assault weapons, as well as
baseless conspiracy theories regarding the government; and
(8) the climate of violence created by these criminals
threatens to undermine republican government in some States.
SEC. 3. PROTECTION AGAINST ASSAULT.
Section 111(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--
(1) in paragraph (1), by inserting `who is an officer or
employee of any State or local government, is assisting such an
officer or employee in the performance of official duty, or is'
after `any person'; and
(2) in paragraph (2), by striking `designated in section
1114' and inserting `described in paragraph (1)'.
SEC. 4. INCREASED PENALTIES.
(a) ASSAULT- Section 111 of title 18, United States Code, is
amended
(1) in subsection (a), by striking `shall, where' and all
that follows through the end of the subsection and inserting
`shall be punished as is provided in subsection (b)'; and
(2) so that subsection (b) reads as follows:
`(b) PENALTIES- Whoever is convicted of an offense under this
section shall be fined under this title and imprisoned not less
than 2 nor more than 3 years, except that--
`(1) in the case of a second or subsequent offense the
maximum term or imprisonment shall be not more than 5 years; and
`(2) in the case of an offense committed with a deadly
weapon, the offender shall be imprisoned not less than 8 nor
more than 10 years.'.
(b) EXTORTION AND THREATS-
(1) INTERSTATE COMMUNICATIONS- Section 875 of title 18,
United States Code, is amended in subsection (c), by striking
`not more than five years, or both' and inserting `not less
than 2 nor more than 5 years'.
(2) MAILING THREATENING COMMUNICATIONS- Section 876 of title
18, United States Code, is amended in the third undesignated
paragraph, by striking `not more than five years, or both' and
inserting `not less than 2 nor more than 5 years'.
Let these two Kremlin Gremlins know exactly what you think of
their schemes to disarm you. You don't have to tolerate this
assault on an American freedom we've had since our founding
days.
Rep. Jerrold Nadler
Rep. Charles Schumer
[Current addresses unknown. Remember this is a repost.]
Doc Tavish
William Daffer
"Tavish" <doc_t...@NOSPAMdanetwork.com> writes:
(snip everything)
Scotty.
Where's your digital signature? If you want to protect your posts,
you must sign every one. And what method of signing are you using?
Could it be that you are lying when you say you digitally sign your
posts? You can prove me wrong by telling me what method of message
digesting you're using so that I can check the digital signature
myself.
William
- --
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
Groucho Marx.
Public Key: http://home.earthlink.net/~whdaffer/#PGP-public-key
This is a *real* digital signature.
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