Police Reserve - would it work here?
Dave Proctor
the Merseyside Police. He was telling me all about it, and I got to
wondering whether or not it could work here.
Basically, he does four weeks per annum on full duty, as well as one
weekend every two months on night shift on Friday and Saturday nights.
He also has to attend regular training courses as well as have fitness
assessments at more frequent intervals than regular coppers.
Got me thinking that it could be a way of boosting police numbers on
the busy nights (Friday and Saturday nights), whilst ensuring that
there is a greater number of people out there who can handle an
emergency.
Let's face it, if it works for the Army, Navy and Air Force, surely it
could work for the cops too.
Any thoughts? I see it as a way of boosting police numbers without
completely blowing the budget. And let's face it, a huge number of
businesses would JUMP at the chance of having a police reservist on
their payroll.
Dave
=====
NSW Rural Fire Service - become a volunteer today.
Listen Here
The support of the people and the Police.
It was mooted in Victoria a few years ago and given the big thumbs down.
"Dave Proctor" <da...@proctor.spambait.net> wrote in message
news:q3r030p6om3opg1gg...@4ax.com...
Insp Gadget
services, albeit that mostly they are vounteers, it is a shame that such an
idea doesn't get the full interest that it deserves. Money talks I guess.
Insp Gadget
Mick
"Listen Here" <lis...@here.com.us> wrote in message
news:P84Yb.62780$Wa.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Yeah, you need the funding?
>
> The support of the people and the Police.
>
> It was mooted in Victoria a few years ago and given the big thumbs down.
>
to have reservists years ago. I tried looking up their website
www.police.vic.gov.au but I couldn't find anything which is strange
considering that it was just last year that they were celebrating 150 years.
> "Dave Proctor" <da...@proctor.spambait.net> wrote in message
> news:q3r030p6om3opg1gg...@4ax.com...
> > Just received an email from my cousin in the UK who is a "Special" in
> > the Merseyside Police. He was telling me all about it, and I got to
> > wondering whether or not it could work here.
> >
> > Basically, he does four weeks per annum on full duty, as well as one
> > weekend every two months on night shift on Friday and Saturday nights.
> > He also has to attend regular training courses as well as have fitness
> > assessments at more frequent intervals than regular coppers.
> >
> > Got me thinking that it could be a way of boosting police numbers on
> > the busy nights (Friday and Saturday nights), whilst ensuring that
> > there is a greater number of people out there who can handle an
> > emergency.
> >
> > Let's face it, if it works for the Army, Navy and Air Force, surely it
> > could work for the cops too.
> >
> > Any thoughts? I see it as a way of boosting police numbers without
> > completely blowing the budget. And let's face it, a huge number of
> > businesses would JUMP at the chance of having a police reservist on
> > their payroll.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > =====
> >
> > NSW Rural Fire Service - become a volunteer today.
> >
> > http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/
>
>
--
Mick (:-D
"People demand freedom of speech as a
compensation for the freedom of thought
which they seldom use."
Soren Kierkegaard
Danish Philosopher 1813-1855
Andrew Kenna
required to be a Police Reservist would be too big a burdon to put on
someone as a volunteer.
At the moment with the current system in place there is too much academic
crap that is not used out on the streets, but because a University is
incharge of the education process they have to justify their sad existance.
Once the Police service come to their senses and get rid of CSU or cut the
course down to get rid of the academics trying to justify their existance by
creating subjects that are a waste of time this may be a more realistic
goal.
Andrew
"Mick" <lalor...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:oZjYb.63371$Wa.6...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Mick
"Andrew Kenna" <aken...@spammers-suck.iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:CclYb.347$L43....@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> The amount of training to bring a civilian upto the level of knowledge
> required to be a Police Reservist would be too big a burdon to put on
> someone as a volunteer.
>
> At the moment with the current system in place there is too much academic
> crap that is not used out on the streets, but because a University is
> incharge of the education process they have to justify their sad
existance.
> Once the Police service come to their senses and get rid of CSU or cut the
> course down to get rid of the academics trying to justify their existance
by
> creating subjects that are a waste of time this may be a more realistic
> goal.
>
> Andrew
>
my work. Come fresh from uni, still wet behind the ears and absolutley no
real worldly knowledge. Unfortunately this is what the world/society has
come to.
Andrew Kenna
prefer Academic Intelligence over Street Smart Intelligence.
Typical managers think they know it all but realistically know stuff all.
Andrew
"Mick" <lalor...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:frlYb.63473$Wa.5...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Dave Proctor
Yeah, I really think it could work as well, and as far as the "we need
coppers with uni degrees" argument goes, then when the reservists are
out working, they could always ensure that they are with a fully
qualified copper.
It just seems to me as though it could be one way of getting more
people out there when needed whilst reducing costs. I used to be an
army reservist, so I knew enough to augment an army unit when needed.
No reason why police reservists could not augment police units when
needed in a similar fashion.
Tony
Being a copper myself, I personally don't think this is a good idea for
several reasons:
1) Firstly, you can't compare the Army etc with the Police Service in
regards to reservists. The NSW Police Service is at full capacity. More
coppers are not needed, better trained coppers are. Extra full-time police
can always be called in to do overtime if a situation arrises (Redfern for
example), with these Police being fully training officers, not a reservist
who does a couple of days training a year. In this sense reservist Police
are not needed.
The Army, Navy and Air Force are the opposite to this, with small numbers of
full-time staff, and large numbers of reservists. This works well for these
services as they are not called upon very often, and when they are they have
sufficient full-time staff to cope. They only need to keep a bare minimum
number of full-time staff, with the capacity to double their size with
reserves.
2) The majority of Police knowledge and training is done on the street,
after you've left the academy. To allow reservists to partake in the
training provided by the Service then put them on the street, only
refreshing them every couple of months or so would not be sufficient for
them to become an effective copper.
Where the Army reserves are told to shoot a gun, Police reserves would need
to learn how to shoot a gun, as well as be knowledgeable on hundreds of
laws, police powers, arresting, charging and bailing, courts and briefs etc.
I'm not putting the Army reserves down (used to be one myself), I'm just
trying to portrait that a Police reservist would need to have the same
knowledge as a full-time officer. In my opinion, the money which would be
spent on recruiting, training, providing equipment for and paying a
reservist would be much better spent on a full-time copper.
Tony
Tim (not that Tim, the otherTim!)
coming back to work part-time after injury, or after maternity/ paternity
leave?
The fact that you work in a complex legal and regulatory environment, even
when rules & regs change behind your back and change without notice, is not
unique to coppering....
As a side-thread, what's your take on the notion that deskbound coppers
should spend a bit of
time on the street once in a while?
"Tony" <tony_r...@SPAMyahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:40329cc9$0$29132$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
FNG42
l am a proud security officer who left the job after 5 yrs at it. l let my
licence lap's and now l have to re-sit the course agian. l have just done
that and l am now fully licence again.
The main reason why l have to sit the course is to re-fresh my knowledge,
training etc.
They have a reserve police system in Victoria, it call 'PRIVATE AGENTS' or
commonly known as Security Officers and Private Investigators. These agents
have all the same rights etc as police but not to arrest on suspession of a
crime committed. We carry all the same gear, baton, cuffs, firearms etc and
have ALL the same defensive tatic's training etc and do all that same job,
the only difference WE wrok for the private sector while THEY (police) are
public sector, just like anything nowa days.
So the original question, do you think the police reserve would work, YES!!!
as we have them NOW!!!
"Tony" <tony_r...@SPAMyahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:40329cc9$0$29132$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
Tierney & Stafferton
The amount of time & money it takes to train a cop is huge. In Victoria,
about 20 weeks and $100,000 each and when they graduate they have no idea -
it takes about another 12 months after graduation before they are much use.
Certainly in the first 6months after graduation they are being led by the
hand and spoon fed.
It's not like you can teach them some basic skills and then let them point a
hose at a fire under supervision or something similar. They have to be
able to deal with dangerous situations and gather evidence and know what NOT
to do and keep the public happy and comply with truck loads of other rules
and requirements. It's hard enough for a new Constable to cope initially
let alone trying to set up a reserve.
My understanding of Police Reserves overseas is that they cause more
problems that they solve. So many try to get in because they are just
after the power trip of authority. Cops have a great deal to carry in
responsibility to try and exercise that power - you don't want to give
power/authority to a wanker!
"Dave Proctor" <da...@proctor.spambait.net> wrote in message
news:q3r030p6om3opg1gg...@4ax.com...
Tierney & Stafferton
know a 1/4 of what a brad new Constable knows about the law, or about how to
deal with victims of crime. The training done by security guards might be
similar in how to fight with people, but that would have to be where it
ends...........
"FNG42" <FN...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4032...@news.alphalink.com.au...
Tierney & Stafferton
assistants - I think it was introduced during WW2. They stopped doing
that a few years back - public servants became known as Unsworn members of
the police force - that was when Neil Comrie first stepped into the Chief
Commissioners job or when Kel Glare was on the way out.
Tony
"Tim (not that Tim, the otherTim!)" <rfs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4032...@news.comindico.com.au...
> And what's the difference between a "reservist" (so called), and a
constable
> coming back to work part-time after injury, or after maternity/ paternity
> leave?
There would be a substanstial difference. An constable returning to work
after injury or paternity leave has done his/her training and has been on
the street for at least 12 months. They will return to work after their
leave and be working every hour of every shift as a copper as they were
doing prior to their leave.
A reservist would have done the training, but will only get called upon when
needed. Their skills and training would not be as broad as a full-time
officer and the Service would have to spend further time and money keeping
these skills current. The reservist would presumably also hold some form of
other job, in which they would have to remain knowledgable. In my view it
would be similar to holding two jobs.
> The fact that you work in a complex legal and regulatory environment, even
> when rules & regs change behind your back and change without notice, is
not
> unique to coppering....
Absolutely. However keeping abreast of these changes requires time and
effort. Being a Police Officer is a full-time job. A reserve officer,
training a couple of times a year would not be able to retain and more
importantly practice the knowledge required. It's a case of quality not
quantity.
> As a side-thread, what's your take on the notion that deskbound coppers
> should spend a bit of
> time on the street once in a while?
I think this idea carries lots of merit. In my view, all sworn officers from
Probationary Constables to the Commissioner should spend time on the beat.
You will find most sworn station officers (all ranks) spend time on the
streets. Headquarters staff are another kettle of fish.
Tony
Andrew Kenna
academy each you Law, Traffic, Operational Tactics so they cover themselves
and learn the rest on the streets.
"Tony" <tony_r...@SPAMyahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:40329cc9$0$29132$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
Andrew Kenna
anyone with half a brain, a couple of hundred dollars and no criminal record
can become a security guard.
The difference then becomes the guards who are professional in their
attitude and the way they talk to people or you get the "LOSER ELEMENT" that
just get the license so they can push people around.
Andrew
"FNG42" <FN...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4032...@news.alphalink.com.au...
FNG42
"Tierney & Stafferton" <umbr...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4032c849$0$18304$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
FNG42
The only thing thats different, they have 12 weeks of "how to read and
interupt law" sessions. thats the only difference.
"Tierney & Stafferton" <umbr...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4032c849$0$18304$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Muddy
same category. The fact that you even think that a security officer can
compare with a Police officer just goes to show your ignorance in the
matter. There are numerous ways that Police are different to security
officers.
Legislation: You have basic rights that are NO DIFFERENT TO THOSE OF ANY
OTHER CITIZEN when it comes to the power of arrest. The ability of a Police
officer to arrest a person on suspicion puts us in a totally different
league than a security officer. Please explain to me what powers a security
officer has to stop search and detain a person unde the Crimes Act, the
Drugs Act and other Acts? Do they have legislated powers under the drugs
misuse and trafficking Act? What about the Bail Act? Australian Road
Rules? What about Commonwealth law? Can you issue infringements? Can you
determine bail? Can you satisfy or execute a warrant? What role do you
play in the case of a mental health patient? Can you even determine that a
person requires scheduling? Under what grounds can you force entry?
Training: Uh huh, there is so much parity there isn't there. The current
training that Police receive is in need of attention...a security officers
training is laughable. Can you compile a brief of evidence? What differs
between a statement for coroners court and a statement for local court?
Tell me the elements and proofs for a larceny and then recite for me
relevant case law that may affect your response? Do you know what relevance
the name Carr has on the way Police deal with matters?
Just a few words on a page maybe, but things that Police officers deal with
on a daily basis. If you can answer me those questions...then you may
understand the massive differences between Police and Security guards.
Muddy.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Andrew Hennell
<spammers_tast...@cookbook.yum> wrote:
>I find it offensive that you would lump security officers and Police in the
>same category. The fact that you even think that a security officer can
>compare with a Police officer just goes to show your ignorance in the
>matter. There are numerous ways that Police are different to security
>officers.
amen.
Whilst I acknowledge there are decent security guards out there, the
majority I've come across are nothing more than insecure thugs hiding
behind a quasi law enforcement 'badge'.
hrmm.. that should stir em up :o)
Solo
wonder security gaurds are under the microscope in VIC.
"Muddy" <spammers_tast...@cookbook.yum> wrote in message
news:vHEYb.64581$Wa.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Andrew Kenna
Andrew
"Solo" <kaseyfa...@ncable.net.au> wrote in message
news:403327cf$1...@news.comindico.com.au...
Andrew Kenna
become a security guard is a 1 week course ( which ain't long enough in my
opinion as i've done it).
To make the bold statements you have made and provide no evidence to back up
your claims just proves your one of the dumb ass security guards who is only
in the security industry as a power trip rather than to help people.
If you go around spouting your opinions in the differences between Police &
Security guards your local Police will not be very friendly towards you at
all..
Andrew
"FNG42" <FN...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4033...@news.alphalink.com.au...
Andrew Kenna
as that idiot bouncer that killed David Hookes went to.
Security training in short is an absolute joke and needs to be overhauled so
that you need a brain to become a security guard, take my situation I work
at a major sporting venue in Olympic Park and the amount of security guards
that work with me that do not have any ounce of intelligence scares me.
Also to add to the already dodgy setup regarding security guard licensing
laws, some of these idiots can go and sit their firearms license, pass it
and carry a gun around on duty.
Andrew
"Muddy" <spammers_tast...@cookbook.yum> wrote in message
news:vHEYb.64581$Wa.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Dave Proctor
it seems to work in the UK, but over there they have a myriad of
police forces which are regionally based, and finding people at short
notice could be problematic, which is a problem we do not have here
with our much wider based state forces.
As I said, a good idea, but with too many problems for it to work.
VK3XEM
> What do police know thay security dont??
>
> The only thing thats different, they have 12 weeks of "how to read and
> interupt law" sessions. thats the only difference.
>
What a looser! Back when I started in Security we were known as "Night
Watchmen", observe and report.
The only difference I see now is that we are contracted to save the client
money on insurance, they don't give a toss about us either. Very little of
Security involves law enforcement, the less the better as far as I'm
concerned with idiots like you in the industry.
73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
@hotmail.com WB
Dave Proctor <da...@proctor.spambait.net> wrote in message
news:q3r030p6om3opg1gg...@4ax.com...
> Just received an email from my cousin in the UK who is a "Special" in
> the Merseyside Police. He was telling me all about it, and I got to
> wondering whether or not it could work here.
>
> Basically, he does four weeks per annum on full duty, as well as one
> weekend every two months on night shift on Friday and Saturday nights.
> He also has to attend regular training courses as well as have fitness
> assessments at more frequent intervals than regular coppers.
>
> Got me thinking that it could be a way of boosting police numbers on
> the busy nights (Friday and Saturday nights), whilst ensuring that
> there is a greater number of people out there who can handle an
> emergency.
>
> Let's face it, if it works for the Army, Navy and Air Force, surely it
> could work for the cops too.
>
> Any thoughts? I see it as a way of boosting police numbers without
> completely blowing the budget. And let's face it, a huge number of
> businesses would JUMP at the chance of having a police reservist on
> their payroll.
>
Andrew Hennell
<da...@proctor.spambait.net> wrote:
>Ok, thanks for all the replies. It seemed like a reasonable idea, and
>it seems to work in the UK, but over there they have a myriad of
>police forces which are regionally based, and finding people at short
>notice could be problematic, which is a problem we do not have here
>with our much wider based state forces.
Remember NSW Police has the Volunteers In Policing scheme, and
although those VIP's are not 'field' members, they do free up
uniformed officers from many routine station tasks so the street
presence is stronger.
Our LAC has several VIP's who do a fantastic job right across the
station, and even providing support to other sections such as
forensics. The police get on well with the VIPs, and they all work
together as a team without the slightest friction. I think the VIPs
went to more police christmas parties than anyone else last year -
they were invited to every party for every section, and a bunch of
private get-to-gethers!
Cheers,
Andrew :o)
addana
hours course to general public who want to learn CPR and basic first aid.
I'm feeling a little tired for my night shift tonight. Do you think I could
get one of the first aiders who knows CPR to take my place?
I sure as hell hope you don;t answer yes to that question, because that will
difinitely kill half the patients I saw last night. And you think security
guards can do the same job as police? If you think that you haven't even
learnt to be a security officer.
Most of the "security guards" I come across at work have enough trouble
speaking english, let alone knowing what the law is and how to do their job.
I think they all went to the same school where taxi drivers learn road rules
and how to read a street directory....
I'm going to bed. I don't like the idea of a first aider doing my job
tonight.
Aussie Medic
"FNG42" <FN...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4033...@news.alphalink.com.au...
Muddy
them do not form part of the 'operational tactical' element of a Police
Station. The introduction of GSO's to take over certain roles such as
admin, radio, crime scene and other counter duties, I think is in a way
similar. Many of them are part time and work only a few days. They are
invaluable to Police and make our lives so much easier. GSO's are an
integral part of the Police Station and it has been my experience that they
are accepted by Police and included within the Police family. At one
station I have worked at, the GSO was so greatly respected she was often
called 'Mum' by the troops and her word was law. Being admonished by her
was probably worse then getting it from the boss! (Mind you she also
mothered us as if we were her own family as well.) So I think you may find
in a way they exist, though the role is a little different to those in the
other countries.
Stay safe,
Muddy
Andrew Kenna
Station where they are employed, and they do not go anywhere near Police
Radio. Civillian Communications Officers operate the Radios in VKG.
I know some stations I've been at if the GSO was not there the GD Police
would not have a clue where anything is, this proves the the GSO has done
his/her job exceptionally well.
Andrew
"Muddy" <spammers_tast...@cookbook.yum> wrote in message
news:WMRYb.65571$Wa....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Andrew Hennell
>news:WMRYb.65571$Wa....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> Basically in NSW, there is a form of Police reserve, though the majority
>of
>> them do not form part of the 'operational tactical' element of a Police
>> Station. The introduction of GSO's to take over certain roles such as
>> admin, radio, crime scene and other counter duties, I think is in a way
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:18:43 +1100, "Andrew Kenna"
<aken...@spammers-suck.iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>Correct me if i'm wrong, but GSO'S do all the admin type work in each Police
>Station where they are employed, and they do not go anywhere near Police
>Radio. Civillian Communications Officers operate the Radios in VKG.
(top posting corrected)
I know of GSO's who will monitor the radio for the station, wander
into lunch rooms & let crews know radio is looking for them, open back
gates, get a camera ready, find an operator, etc, etc from calls heard
over radio.. and in some instances, use the radio as station if
required.
but you're correct, VKG has unsworn radio operators.
"Civillian" is a term that generally means "not police", however with
a growing number of unsworn police members (employed by police but not
sworn officers), the term 'unsworn' is better used imho.
Cheers,
Andrew.
FNG42
AS a professional Security Officer, l can happily say that Police and
Security do the SAME job under the SAME conditions. Security get paid less,
work MORE time then cop's and for what??? SHIT from the public who dont know
anything about law enforcement. Sure we may not goto a domestic violence
job, we wait until it comes to us, either in a pub/club, retail - shopping
centers etc. WE may not attend car crash where people have died etc, but
when a person walks into your venue and overdoses on drugs, aint that the
same a car accident as in people are dying and we must attend that
problem???
Granted that there are rough elements in the job, ie Hooksy, STAR CITY
incidents etc, and sure that not all Security Officers are of English
background, BUT the police are the SAME. There are MANY MANY MANY cops on
the take, need l mention that NSW & QLD had to set up enquiry's into police
corruption, (this is where l remind you ALL of the negative media coverage
of police in NSW of their 'buying a copper' scam & the police brutality from
QLD over schoolies week!!! Interesting fact:- NSW polie force run a
campaign in VIC papers to enroll new police members, from where,
VICTORIA!!!!) but l cant do that, why????, because POLICE are *sweaky
clean*, right.
Need l mention that fact that in Victoria many police are LEAVING the force
and joining Security, why?? because Security down here are better then a
force that cant even look after it's own members..... Many people put up
the excuse that we (security) are wont-to-be-coppers. I LAUGH at this
comment, why??? Because its funny, if l wanted to be a copper l would be and
given that we have POLICE members LEAVING their job to join SECURITY makes
me laugh.........
"Muddy" <spammers_tast...@cookbook.yum> wrote in message
news:vHEYb.64581$Wa.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Version: 6.0.577 / Virus Database: 366 - Release Date: 2/3/04
Solo
the bloke comes back with a list of crimes that range from house bergs to
shop steal and then at the end of it all the operator says he has a security
license.
How is this so, I remember that when I got my Guard Agents License. the
court asked me if I had any priors I said no as I had none and then they
asked the cop to confirm that I had none and my license was granted.
So how is it that all these people (crims) are getting a license.
Andrew Hennell
>There are MANY MANY MANY cops on
>the take, need l mention that NSW & QLD had to set up enquiry's into police
>corruption
How many, exactly, did the NSW Royal Commission into Police uncover?
How many, exactly, were charged?
And when you come back to us with those figures, compare them to the
14,000 men & women who comprise NSW Police.
Now, toddle off & find the form on security guards (you won't find it
published), and then compare it to the number of guards. I think
you'll quickly find where corruption is and where an inquiry is
required.
I know of at least 5 incidents in the past few years where the
"security guards" hired to protect premises were involved in the
robberies of those same premises.
Nup, give me a real, serving police member over any 'rent-a-cop'
anyday.
Cheers,
Andrew :o)
VK3XEM
> you all aint going to like this then............
>
> AS a professional Security Officer, l can happily say that Police and
> Security do the SAME job under the SAME conditions.
You are delusional if you think we do the SAME work as Police, I hope to
fuck with your attitude you don't carry a gun!
>Security get paid less,
> work MORE time then cop's and for what??? SHIT from the public who dont
know
> anything about law enforcement.
Well you might be right there, I reckon it is a "Work for the Dole" scheme.
But from what I can see you know fuck all about law enforcement too.
>Sure we may not goto a domestic violence
> job, we wait until it comes to us, either in a pub/club, retail - shopping
> centers etc. WE may not attend car crash where people have died etc, but
> when a person walks into your venue and overdoses on drugs, aint that the
> same a car accident as in people are dying and we must attend that
> problem???
As a member of VicSES as well as a security officer I can tell you some
fuckwit ODing is not the same as attending a car accident. Sure, often
there are fuckwits behind the wheel, but there are also innocent victims at
a car accident.
>
> Granted that there are rough elements in the job, ie Hooksy, STAR CITY
> incidents etc, and sure that not all Security Officers are of English
> background, BUT the police are the SAME.
Wake up to yourself we are not condeming Security Officers that are not of
English background, simply the fact that many of them speak fuck all
English. Let's face it one of the most important skills of a Security
Officer is to be able to communicate! I'm sure that ALL Police have this
skill before they are accepted.
With your attitude you are likely to be another bouncer basher like the
bloke who killed hookesy.
>There are MANY MANY MANY cops on
> the take, need l mention that NSW & QLD had to set up enquiry's into
police
> corruption, (this is where l remind you ALL of the negative media coverage
> of police in NSW of their 'buying a copper' scam & the police brutality
from
> QLD over schoolies week!!! Interesting fact:- NSW polie force run a
> campaign in VIC papers to enroll new police members, from where,
> VICTORIA!!!!) but l cant do that, why????, because POLICE are *sweaky
> clean*, right.
Sounds like history to me, sure there may still be corrupt cops out there
but I know of MANY corrupt Security Officers out there too, what has been
done to clean these people up. NOTHING!! At least the Police are
continually working on cleaning themselves up.
>
> Need l mention that fact that in Victoria many police are LEAVING the
force
> and joining Security, why?? because Security down here are better then a
> force that cant even look after it's own members.....
The only Police I know that leave for security positions are actually taking
up management positions where there is real money to be made and not a dead
end bouncing job or building site.
Many people put up
> the excuse that we (security) are wont-to-be-coppers. I LAUGH at this
> comment, why??? Because its funny, if l wanted to be a copper l would be
and
> given that we have POLICE members LEAVING their job to join SECURITY makes
> me laugh.........
>
Well for one I could almost guarantee you would not be accepted as a copper
anyway, your spelling is fucked. There are too many of your types that are
"would be if you could be's" in the security industry. As I said before, I
hope to fuck you don't carry a gun!
73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
VK3XEM
It's no surprise that Hooksey was killed unfortunately.
Also the latest night club victim (from a Brighton club called Mint I think)
was also bashed by an off duty bouncer from another club!
When I started as a Night Watchmen (before Security) we had nothing to do
with bouncers, I wish they had never lumped them in with us!
73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
"Solo" <kaseyfa...@ncable.net.au> wrote in message
news:4034748f$1...@news.comindico.com.au...
Muddy
Muddy
Once again you show your glaring ignorance, as stated ANSWER MY QUESTIONS
instead of throwing up further unsupported allegations and emotional
malarky.
There is absolutely NO similarity between car accidents and Overdoses other
than a driver may have drugs in their system. With your reasoning you may
as well argue that State rail staff who deal with druggies are the same as
Police and that Wesley Mission Volunteers are as well.
As for your laughable attempts to divert from my questions with emotional
arguments in relation to corruption, I think the others have answered it for
me. I wish I could get my hands on the stats for the number of Police who
have been charged with assault and how many 'security officers' have in the
past 20 years. Also I would love to have a look at the incidents of
security officers fired for 'unethical behaviour' as opposed to officers who
have been given a 181D??
No your arguments are flawed, without basis in fact, relying upon emotional
responses and obviously not well thought out.
May I offer one other little word of advice, run your posts through a Word,
as it will correct allot of things that also reduce your credibility like
grammar and spelling, yours is not helping your argument any.
Goodnight,
Muddy
harp on about.
Muddy...
Alpha
news:4032c849$0$18304$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Don't kid yourself - Private security guards ARE NOT POLICE- You wouldn't
> know a 1/4 of what a brad new Constable knows about the law, or about how
to
> deal with victims of crime. The training done by security guards might
be
> similar in how to fight with people, but that would have to be where it
> ends...........
I agree we are not Police, but we outnumber you 4 to1.
We know all we need to do our job not yours, we do have to
know aspects of the criminal code and relevant sections in QLD
anyway.
I was never taught how to fight anybody. But I was taught wrist locks,
handcuff and baton techniques.
Sorry it does not end there, in sunny QLD Security Officers to
gain the SG3 weapons licence must shoot at a greater distance
with a higher average and re test every year, this includes theory as well.
I personally see no need for a Security Officer to carry a fire arm unless
in the cash
transit world, even then it does no good.
The lines between Police and Private Security are very close now and
we should be building bridges with each other not comparing who is best....
I work with my partner a 3 year old Belgian Malinois he is my support
when I need help. You guys call VKR yell code1 and the world comes running
we
do not have that luxury. If we are very lucky you guys can get to us but
not often......
Alpha
Alpha
news:9s7630hjv0lm9lpm5...@4ax.com...
Andrew I work with them every day!!!!!!
Our jobs are poles apart I detect and report nothing more, any clown who
thinks they wear a uniform makes them a peace officer needs to go to TEXAS
USA......
Alpha
Muddy
we should be building bridges with each other not comparing who is best....
I still beg to differ about the two 'industries' for lack of a better word
becoming closer. The difference is massive, with Police being more
accountable and legislated. Security guards have their niche and always
will, but they still work within a very narrow scope compared to Police.
You may as well state that Doctors and enrolled nurses are the same, EN's
outnumber doctors four to one I bet also. (Any EN's wish to compare roles
with a doctor?) The knowledge gap between Police and Security alone is
massive as is their 'response' to situations.
At best they fill the role of 'supplemental' or 'support agency' to Police.
It also has nothing to do with a pissing contest and everything to do with
knowledge of your role. A security guard getting about thinking he is a cop
is dangerous and also someone who is going to end up getting into worlds of
hurt. Been there, done that and charged them as well.
As for backup...what's that? Tyranny of distance...here at times my closest
backup is over half an hour away under bells and whistles...assuming they
can even find where I am on the map.
Be cool.
Muddy.
Alpha
Hi Muddy, don't get me wrong I am saying this how I see it. I have been in
this
industry for 6 years now. I meet many crash test dummies as I call them and
a
good 60% are dangerous. I get embarrassed to wear the same uniform at
times.
Like I said we are trained for our job which is different to yours. I have
a good
working relationship with the coppers in my area even seeing several out of
the
job so to speak, but this does not make me special.
I'm sorry I do not know where you work I get the feeling your a country
copper
and we would have some of the same problems dealing with people and being
mindful we are on our pat. Sure makes you approach things in a different
manner.
Stay safe mate.
Alpha
@hotmail.com WB
>
> And when you come back to us with those figures, compare them to the
> 14,000 men & women who comprise NSW Police.
>
from the the commsisioner of police at the december 2002 attestation parade
at goulburn "...these men and women join the 18000 strong hold of sworn and
unsworn officers of the 7th largest law enforcemnet agency of the
world....."
(i dont care for spelling either)
Andrew Hennell
<spammers_tast...@cookbook.yum> wrote:
>me. I wish I could get my hands on the stats for the number of Police who
>have been charged with assault and how many 'security officers' have in the
>past 20 years.
Police are under massive scrutiny from, let me count... Police rank,
Police Integrity Commission, Independant Commission Against
Corruption, Police Ombudsman, Police Minister, Premier, the Media, and
everybody who sees them in uniform.
How many oversee security? I'd like to see them work under that much
scrutiny - might improve the industry!
anyway, due to this there's much information about police in terms of
charges & the like, and none on the security industry.
Police with convicted during 1991 - 1998: 182
Police wich charges dismissed for the same period: 296
Now that includes everything, from drink driving to dangerous driving
to assault to 'corrupt' activities. Everything.
14,000 police. 8 years. 182 charges. I dare say that's much less
than regular society and the security industry.
---
The Wood Royal Commission into NSW Police Service, which was mentioned
earlier, managed to adversley mention only 92 police. That again is
92, out of 14,000, over many years. All 92 left the service. As far
as I can find, none were convicted of an actual crime as a result of
their adverse mention at the commission.
The Wood Commission was more about reform, about finding ways to
_avoid_ corruption, about ways to _improve_ the system and the
workplace for police so that corruption did not take hold.
Yes, there are corrupt police. Very few of them, but they exist.
Yes, there are corrupt security guards - and good security guards.
It's just the ratio that changes.
Cheers,
Andrew :o)
nicole
who have resigned because of personal reasons or dissatisfaction with the
overall job. But many still love the work and would continue on as a
reservist or on a "casual" basis. These people have the training and
experience to be effective members, and could be vauluable to boost numbers
in peak times eg. friday and saturday nights when an extra van on the road
would be usefull. They could even be permanantly assigned to a particular
station so that they would still fit in to the current management structure
which is aimed at each person working through a stations senior sergeant
etc.
Andrew Kenna
in this group you are a joke and give the good security guards in the
industry who do try to be professional a bad name.
You need to hand your license in and quite from the security game as you
truely are a joke and have no respect for the Police in your area. If I ran
around stating I did the same sort of work as the Police the local station
would laugh at me.
Don't even get me started on the Corruption inquries that were undertaken,
just because there hasn't been one done on the Vic Police service means
bugger all.. The gov't could be slack and not admitting they have problems
or the Police in Vic are hiding their illegal activities better than the
guys in NSW did. There are good points and bad points that come out of every
government enquiry/probe.
Andrew
"FNG42" <FN...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4034...@news.alphalink.com.au...
Andrew Kenna
force to remove someone from a venue if they won't leave... If they want to
get rough and start throwing punches I'll call the Police first before I get
involved in restraining the person.
Andrew
"VK3XEM" <vk3...@vk3xem.net> wrote in message
news:403486cc$0$27647$61ce...@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...
Andrew Kenna
finished at the College we were told there was 15,000 in the Police service
at that time
Andrew
"WB" <sgtrammstein @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bX8Zb.67044$Wa.5...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Andrew Kenna
simply do not have the man power to Police regularly. Properly setup
security plans should involve security being the first port of call, if the
problem is of a serious nature they should contact the Police Immediately.
It also comes down to the lack of training that is conducted before issuing
of a 1ABC Security License, I have worked with guards who are totally
useless cannot even follow a simple instruction of stand here and tell
people they cannot walk past them as the area is blocked off... These are
the idiots that have gotten their license for no other reason except they
wanted it so they could get into events for nothing and bludge.
Andrew
"Andrew Hennell" <and...@hennell.com.au.com> wrote in message
news:lvv830h0h14jknq45...@4ax.com...
Andrew Kenna
stats on the Wood Royal Commission.
Andrew
"Andrew Hennell" <and...@hennell.com.au.com> wrote in message
news:j16a3053jpqhc83u5...@4ax.com...
Listen Here
Police members who retired and stayed with the force with little powers.
Not permitted to work the street etc etc
The Reservist system is gone, but reservists still exist.
"Mick" <lalor...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:oZjYb.63371$Wa.6...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Listen Here" <lis...@here.com.us> wrote in message
> news:P84Yb.62780$Wa.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > Yeah, you need the funding?
> >
> > The support of the people and the Police.
> >
> > It was mooted in Victoria a few years ago and given the big thumbs down.
> >
> Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall that the Victoria Police used
> to have reservists years ago. I tried looking up their website
> www.police.vic.gov.au but I couldn't find anything which is strange
> considering that it was just last year that they were celebrating 150
years.
>
> > "Dave Proctor" <da...@proctor.spambait.net> wrote in message
> > news:q3r030p6om3opg1gg...@4ax.com...
> > > Just received an email from my cousin in the UK who is a "Special" in
> > > the Merseyside Police. He was telling me all about it, and I got to
> > > wondering whether or not it could work here.
> > >
> > > Basically, he does four weeks per annum on full duty, as well as one
> > > weekend every two months on night shift on Friday and Saturday nights.
> > > He also has to attend regular training courses as well as have fitness
> > > assessments at more frequent intervals than regular coppers.
> > >
> > > Got me thinking that it could be a way of boosting police numbers on
> > > the busy nights (Friday and Saturday nights), whilst ensuring that
> > > there is a greater number of people out there who can handle an
> > > emergency.
> > >
> > > Let's face it, if it works for the Army, Navy and Air Force, surely it
> > > could work for the cops too.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts? I see it as a way of boosting police numbers without
> > > completely blowing the budget. And let's face it, a huge number of
> > > businesses would JUMP at the chance of having a police reservist on
> > > their payroll.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > =====
> > >
> > > NSW Rural Fire Service - become a volunteer today.
> > >
> > > http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/
> >
> >
> --
> Mick (:-D
> "People demand freedom of speech as a
> compensation for the freedom of thought
> which they seldom use."
> Soren Kierkegaard
> Danish Philosopher 1813-1855
>
>
Listen Here
She has been away for 12 months, went back to work and fitted in very well
after doing her OSTT training.
She did have 8 years full time experiance prior to that, hopefully that
means something?????
"Tim (not that Tim, the otherTim!)" <rfs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4032...@news.comindico.com.au...
> And what's the difference between a "reservist" (so called), and a
constable
> coming back to work part-time after injury, or after maternity/ paternity
> leave?
>
> The fact that you work in a complex legal and regulatory environment, even
> when rules & regs change behind your back and change without notice, is
not
> unique to coppering....
>
> As a side-thread, what's your take on the notion that deskbound coppers
> should spend a bit of
> time on the street once in a while?
>
>
> "Tony" <tony_r...@SPAMyahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:40329cc9$0$29132$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> >
> > "Dave Proctor" <da...@proctor.spambait.net> wrote in message
> > news:q3r030p6om3opg1gg...@4ax.com...
> > > Just received an email from my cousin in the UK who is a "Special" in
> > > the Merseyside Police. He was telling me all about it, and I got to
> > > wondering whether or not it could work here.
> > >
> > > Basically, he does four weeks per annum on full duty, as well as one
> > > weekend every two months on night shift on Friday and Saturday nights.
> > > He also has to attend regular training courses as well as have fitness
> > > assessments at more frequent intervals than regular coppers.
> > >
> > > Got me thinking that it could be a way of boosting police numbers on
> > > the busy nights (Friday and Saturday nights), whilst ensuring that
> > > there is a greater number of people out there who can handle an
> > > emergency.
> > >
> > > Let's face it, if it works for the Army, Navy and Air Force, surely it
> > > could work for the cops too.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts? I see it as a way of boosting police numbers without
> > > completely blowing the budget. And let's face it, a huge number of
> > > businesses would JUMP at the chance of having a police reservist on
> > > their payroll.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > =====
> >
> >
Listen Here
Your a security guard, and thats it. Not to mention your sector is being
changed as we speak.
Security Guards are not a POLICE RESERVE and frankly reject your suggestion
as obscene.
Regards
"FNG42" <FN...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4032...@news.alphalink.com.au...
> What tony stated is in theory correct but, take my sitution.
>
> l am a proud security officer who left the job after 5 yrs at it. l let my
> licence lap's and now l have to re-sit the course agian. l have just done
> that and l am now fully licence again.
> The main reason why l have to sit the course is to re-fresh my knowledge,
> training etc.
>
> They have a reserve police system in Victoria, it call 'PRIVATE AGENTS' or
> commonly known as Security Officers and Private Investigators. These
agents
> have all the same rights etc as police but not to arrest on suspession of
a
> crime committed. We carry all the same gear, baton, cuffs, firearms etc
and
> have ALL the same defensive tatic's training etc and do all that same job,
> the only difference WE wrok for the private sector while THEY (police) are
> public sector, just like anything nowa days.
>
> So the original question, do you think the police reserve would work,
YES!!!
> as we have them NOW!!!
Listen Here
Arrest powers under 459 of the crimes act
Power to Intercept a motor vehicle
Power to demand a breath/blood test from drivers of motor vehicles
Power to set up Road Blocks
Power to execute Bench Warrants/other warrants
power to search a person for prohibited weapons
power to search a person for drugs
power to enter a house without warrant under the Crime Family Violence Act
Exemptions under the Road Rules?
Which ones
"FNG42" <FN...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4033...@news.alphalink.com.au...
> What do police know thay security dont??
>
> The only thing thats different, they have 12 weeks of "how to read and
> interupt law" sessions. thats the only difference.
>
>
>
> "Tierney & Stafferton" <umbr...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4032c849$0$18304$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > Don't kid yourself - Private security guards ARE NOT POLICE- You
wouldn't
> > know a 1/4 of what a brad new Constable knows about the law, or about
how
> to
> > deal with victims of crime. The training done by security guards might
> be
> > similar in how to fight with people, but that would have to be where it
> > ends...........
> >
> >
> >
Listen Here
when they add them all in.
"Andrew Kenna" <aken...@spammers-suck.iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:PggZb.116$3X5....@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
@hotmail.com WB
As of 31/1/2004, there was 15,074 sworn officers and approx 3,500 unsworn
officers... over 18,500. (ref NSW Police website)
but according to the speach in print from the 2002 attestation parade
Andrew Kenna <aken...@spammers-suck.iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:PggZb.116$3X5....@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
KiwiRider
Andrew Kenna
engrish... not ENGLISH
Andrew
"KiwiRider" <gho...@nospam.ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:c25gqe$cen$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Tierney & Stafferton
seems I may be mistaken - youse blokes just want ta nit pick 'bout spellin
an
stuff
"Andrew Kenna" <aken...@spam-sucks.iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:ZIP6c.431$QJ2....@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...