Required reading
Bob Deane
readigs? I remember seeing it at some point but can't for the life of
me remember where. I have all the issues of Trajectories(video, audio,
and writteneo) so maybe you could just direct me to where it is in
print. damn short term memory. I can't remember what happened to it.
Oh well. Kay Sarah Sarah.
--
Bob & Nancy
All that is is the result of what we have thought.
---Buddha
Vaya con Queso!!
Cliff Stabbert
>
> [I love this article so much, I thought I'd type in the whole thing.]
<snip>
grunt grunt urrrr
ooga not read joyce yet
ooga want drugs!! urrrrrr! [slaps books away]
Cliff Stabbert
and found some schtupfh. Maybe we could add this to the FAQ//&FUQ as
"Bob recommends"?
EWagner382 wrote:
<snip>
> 1. Ulysses by James Joyce. Nobody has really entered the 20th
Ulysses
ftp://ftp.trentu.ca/pub/jjoyce/ulysses/
Chamber Music
http://www.geocities.com/~spanoudi/poems/joyce01.html
Dubliners
http://www.bibliomania.com/Fiction/joyce/dublin/index.html
Finnegans Wake
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/book-nonus.html
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
http://www.datatext.co.uk/library/joyce/artist/chapters.htm
> 2. The Cantos, by Ezra Pound. And that means getting to the last
The Natural Philosophy of Love [translated by Pound, afterword]
http://leeharrison.simplenet.com/bwp/npl/index.html
> 3. Science and Sanity by Alfred Korzybski. this one gives you the
Ewagner posted some, I didn't find any links.
> 4. Ovid. I wish everybody would read Ovid. The great myths of our
Metamorphoses [note says end missing; I couldn't connect to server]
http://classics.mit.edu/Ovid/metam.html
Ovid's Elegies [translated by Christopher Marlowe]
[that's how they list it - Ovid's Elegies by Ovid]
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/text?lookup=marl.+ovid+am.+1.1.1
> 5. The Canterbury Tales, Chaucer - just because it's so damn good.
Everything
http://www.luminarium.org/medlit/chaubib.htm
> 6. Justine, by deSade -- because everyone needs to be shaken up.
> 7. Instead of a Book by a Man Too Busy to Write One, by Benjamin
(apropos of that title, I was thinking of cutting A Title for My CD by A
Name for My Band. Or publishing Title by Name, or A Book by Me.)
I'm assuming this is Benjamin R. Tucker who also wrote
Individual Liberty
http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/tucker/tucker.html
and who translated
The Kreuzer Sonatas by Leo Tolstoy
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new?id=TolKreu&tag=public&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&part=0
> 8. Progress and Poverty, by Henry George. Not that I agree with it.
Progress and Poverty
http://www.henrygeorge.org/chp1.htm
> 9. The Open Society and its Enemies, by Karl Popper, which
> 10. Shakespeare. I think everybody should read Shakespeare, not
Everything
http://www-tech.mit.edu/Shakespeare/works.html
> > Jonathan Swift. All of Gulliver's Travels. There are some
The Battle of the Books and Other Short Pieces
ftp://uiarchive.cso.uiuc.edu/pub/etext/gutenberg/etext96/batbk10.txt
Gulliver's Travels
http://www.jaffebros.com/lee/gulliver/index.html
The Lady's Dressing Room
gopher://dept.english.upenn.edu/00/E-Text/PEAL/Swift/dressing
A Modest Proposal
http://tom.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/book/lookup?num=1080
A Proposal for Correcting, Improving and Ascertaining the British Tongue
gopher://dept.english.upenn.edu/00/E-Text/PEAL/Swift/proposal
A Tale of a Tub
http://www.duke.edu/~as1/tub.html
> > Nietzsche. There are a couple of good one-volume editions which
The Antichrist [translated by H.L. Mencken - whozat? his name is
popping up all over for me lately]
http://www.macromind.org/maps/nz/a-christ.htm
Thus Spake Zarthustra
http://eserver.org/philosophy/nietzsche-zarathustra.txt
> > Olaf Stapledon. There's a one-volume edition that contains both
Note: I like to see such books, and many other worthwhile ones,
available online. In fact, I'd like to see really really cheap editions
available printed, since the material is public domain. When growing up
in the Netherlands, I for a while [as a kid] subscribed to this service
that would for $1/month or so send you one or two 'classic' novels per
month [I remember some Orwell, some Huxley...ehm...Kafka, I think...],
printed in a sort of tabloid newspaper format on cheap paper. Very
worthwhile service and the kind of thing I think should be *far* more
widespread.
Cliff
Cliff Stabbert
>
> lol. I think reading Finnegans Wake has affected me more than any
> drug experience.
> 1132
I suspect on the whole books have affected my thinking more...but to be
honest, the whole concept of having to choose is kinda [sotto voce,
quavering, eyes darting] _freakin me out, man_...
Cliff
fucked up and reading
EWagner382
I have another list that I revise every couple of months. This is not my
"Ten Favorite Books" so much as a list of the ten books I wish everyone would
read: the ten books I most feel the lack of in people who otherwise seem
intelligent. These books would fill anyone's cranium with useful information.
In order of priority, the list would begin with:
1. Ulysses by James Joyce. Nobody has really entered the 20th century if
they haven't digested Ulysses. And if they haven't entered the 20th century,
they're going to fall pretty far behind pretty soon, as we enter the 21st.
There's a guy I correspond with occasionally who spends all his time fighting
with Fundamentalists over Darwin. He's living in the 19th century; nothing in
the 20th century has affected him yet. He's carrying on the brave battles of
Thomas Henry Huxley a hundred years later. I know some people who are back in
the 18th century - Burkian conservatives, trying to apply Burke's principles to
modern times. I sometimes do that myself - try to apply some of Burke's
principles. But not all of them! I don't think he's written in stone either.
At any rate, everyone should read Ulysses to get into the 20th century. And
everybody should struggle as much as they can with:
2. The Cantos, by Ezra Pound. And that means getting to the last page. You
may give up on some pages, and say, "I'll never figure this stuff out!" But
keep going until you get to the last page. Pound offers something no other
writer except Dante has ever attempted - and Dante does it in a medieval way
that doesn't mean much to modern people. Pound offers a hierarchy of values.
We've heard so many voices from the East telling us "All is One," and we've got
so many puritanical duelists of all sorts telling us, "No; there's good and
bad." And they all define those terms in their own way: the Christian "good
and evil" duality; the ecologist's "nature good; man bad" duality; the
feminist's "woman good; man bad" duality, and so on. Against this monism and
dualism Pound offers a hierarchy of values, in which he gives you a panoramic
picture of human history, very much like Griffith's Intolerance, only in it,
Pound shows levels of awareness, levels of civilization, levels of ethics and
levels of lack of all these things. And you realize that you have a hierarchy
of values too, but you've never perfectly articulated it. Every writer gives
you a hierarchy of values. But by making this the central theme, Pound makes
you face the question, "Will I accept this as the best hierarchy of values?" I
can't, because the guy had a screw loose. Great poet, but a little bit funny
in the head at times, trying to synthesize Jefferson, Confucius, Picasso and
Mussolini. So what you've got to do is struggle with Pound, and create your
own hierarchy of values to convince yourself that you grok more than he did.
And he combined genius and looniness. It's an invigorating book to get you out
of dualism, which is the Western trap, and monism, which is the Eastern trap,
to attain realism: a hierarchy of values.
Another book I wish everybody would read:
3. Science and Sanity by Alfred Korzybski. this one gives you the tools to
enable you to avoid most of the stupidity prevalent on this planet at present.
It won't cure all forms of stupidity, and you really have to work at it; it
doesn't do magic. But if you use its principles, you'll gradually cure
yourself of a lot of prevalent forms of stupidity. If you work at it hard
enough, you may cure yourself of most. I don't know; I'm still working at it.
4. Ovid. I wish everybody would read Ovid. The great myths of our
particular culture - the Greek and Roman myths - can't be found in any one
book, except Bullfinch or Ovid, and Ovid has a much better style than
Bullfinch. So read Ovid and get the whole panorama of classical myth.
Classical myth has so much meaning that it permeates every bit of modern
psychology. The myths of other cultures have much to offer, but we still need
our myths. So we might as well face up to them. It's our culture; let's not
lose it. And let's find out something that happened before 1970.
5. The Canterbury Tales, Chaucer - just because it's so damn good.
6. Justine, by deSade -- because everyone needs to be shaken up. Justine
asks you some pretty fundamental questions. And you may not find them easy to
answer.
7. Instead of a Book by a Man Too Busy to Write One, by Benjamin Tucker,
which contains the best arguments for minimizing force and maximizing options;
the best argument for extreme Libertarianism that anyone has put together. He
deals with concrete issues in economics, and makes a damn good case for a
maximum of liberty and a minimum of coercion as a formula for a happy and
prosperous society.
8. Progress and Poverty, by Henry George. Not that I agree with it. But
everyone's heard of Karl Marx and Adam Smith. If you read Tucker and George,
you get the idea that there are more than two choices. You don't have to
choose between them. There are other options, not in between, but at right
angles to those choices; a hierarchy of possibilities. George poses a
challenge to both Marxism and orthodox capitalism.
9. The Open Society and its Enemies, by Karl Popper, which introduces you to
a lot of aspects of modern scientific thought, but in a different way than
Korzykski, and applies them to tearing apart most of the arguments for
determinism and totalitarianism. I think determinism and totalitarianism have
done so damn much harm that everybody needs a good inoculation against them.
Popper seems the best inoculation. He fled both the Communists and the Nazis,
and had good emotional reasons for detesting totalitarianism. He was a
physicist, so he expressed himself in terms of a very deep and trenchant
philosophical analysis of what's wrong with theories that claim, "We know
what's best (?) and we know how to achieve it - and we know who has to be
killed to make it happen."
10. Shakespeare. I think everybody should read Shakespeare, not only because
he was such [a] great poet, but because he's under so much attack these days.
You might as well check him out for yourself, and it will give you an idea of
how just dumb the politically correct people who attack him seem in comparison
to him.
Other recommended authors:
> Jonathan Swift. All of Gulliver's Travels. There are some anthologies
which contain not only this, but a selection of his other writings, too. Swift
does a great job of tearing apart conventional ideas about almost everything.
He's very, very liberating; almost psychedelic in some passages.
> Nietzsche. There are a couple of good one-volume editions which contain
both Twilight of the Idols and The Anti-Christ. The two should be taken
together. They represent Nietzsche at the height of his...whatever it was.
More than any other writer in the history of philosophy, Nietzsche set out to
refute everyone who came before him, without exception and without mercy, and
he had the intellect to do a damn good job. He tears down so many accepted
ideas that you're left floating in a kind of nihilistic void. Many people find
this terrifying. I find it exhilarating, and I manage to recover from it every
time I subject myself to re-reading something by Nietzsche. There are a lot of
other good books by Nietzsche, but I'd especially recommend those two.
> Olaf Stapledon. There's a one-volume edition that contains both First and
Last Men and Last Men in London.
Then, when somebody has read that much, I think intelligent conversation can
begin. Otherwise, we're pretty much on the level of grunting.
1132
EWagner382
Bob Deane
these, or at least parts there of. Hopefully I can wade through some of
these in the near future, although since I am in Grad school at the
moment, they may have to wait until summer. thanx agin. BoB
EWagner382
1132
Rev. D.
"Programming and Meta-Programming the Human BioComputer" & "Center of the
Cyclone" aka "Eye of the Hurricane?" by John Lilly. Lilly's definately
been an influence on RAW...
Speaking of which, does anyone know the real reason Lilly and Leary seemed
to hate each other? Is it possibly because Lilly blames Leary for stirring
up everyone in regards to LSD, causing and end to Lilly's work on the
subject?
Bob Deane wrote:
> Can one of you nice entities please post RAW's list of required
> readigs? I remember seeing it at some point but can't for the life of
> me remember where. I have all the issues of Trajectories(video, audio,
> and writteneo) so maybe you could just direct me to where it is in
> print. damn short term memory. I can't remember what happened to it.
> Oh well. Kay Sarah Sarah.
Rev. pH33r c0w
wrote:
>I don't know if this one's on the list, but it probably should be....
>
>"Programming and Meta-Programming the Human BioComputer" & "Center of the
>Cyclone" aka "Eye of the Hurricane?" by John Lilly. Lilly's definately
>been an influence on RAW...
>
>Speaking of which, does anyone know the real reason Lilly and Leary seemed
>to hate each other? Is it possibly because Lilly blames Leary for stirring
>up everyone in regards to LSD, causing and end to Lilly's work on the
>subject?
>
>
does anyone know where i can get either of those Lilly books?
bookstores that ive been to never have them, nor can they special
order them, and amazon.com doesnt have any....hrm.
xoxo.
EWagner382
positively in his books. At the end of Leary's life they had become friends.
1132
EWagner382
copies of that at used book sales over the years. Many people buy it and find
the language frustrating I suspect.
1132
el...@my-dejanews.com
"Rev. pH33r c0w" wrote:
> does anyone know where i can get either of those Lilly books?
> bookstores that ive been to never have them, nor can they special
> order them, and amazon.com doesnt have any....hrm.
> xoxo.
Lilly's "Programming and Metaprogramming..." was (is ?) available
online in full-length. I think it was somewhere at
If you don't find it there, try some search engine.
If that fails too, contact me, I still have it on my HD.
Elmyr
Church of Normal (CON)
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
igo...@my-dejanews.com
I did find this one a bit difficult in places, but it was compelling enough
for me to have finished it in 4 or 5 days (fast for me). This book RAW cites
in Illuminati Papers as one of the basic programming manuals for the human
HEAD, along with Leary's 'Exo-Psychology' (or 'Info-Psychology'), and Masters
and Hustons 'Mind Games' (I don't believe we've mentioned this one yet).
These are out of print except 'Mind Games' which was re-released last
November. This book, in contrast to the Lilly's, is an easy read
language-wise, but I find myself plodding along only halfway through it. It
involves group meditation excercises and visualization. Well, John Lennon
loved it, so... Leary's book is also taking me a while, but I'll probably get
back to it first.
-Igor
Julian Bond
writes
>EWagner382 wrote:
>> I got my copy of Metaprograming etc at a used book sale & I've seen other
>> copies of that at used book sales over the years. Many people buy it and find
>> the language frustrating I suspect.
>
>I did find this one a bit difficult in places, but it was compelling enough
>for me to have finished it in 4 or 5 days (fast for me).
The point that I lost respect for Lilly is when I read about his 2nd
trip. He has a mild case of the flu and he's on his own, so he gives
himself a shot of antibiotics but due to the trip he can't get it
together and almost/maybe injects an air bubble. This is stupidity of
the highest order from somebody who is supposedly highly intelligent. He
then tries to evade responsibility for his actions by explaining it away
as evil sub-programs in his metacomputer.
The whole Ketamine addiction saga smacks of a fairly twisted personality
as well.
I'm not sure his famous quote about "...within limits to be determined
experimentally"[1] really adds very much to the sum of human knowledge.
[1]Sorry, can't remember the whole thing.
--
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MegaScooter/FF info & mailing list http://www.shockwav.demon.co.uk
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> Wear Gloves <
Cliff Stabbert
<snip>
> This is stupidity of
> the highest order from somebody who is supposedly highly intelligent.
I've got a theory about some sort of correlation here...