Idiot Patrol
damian
entertaining at times. Case in point:
Some dude starts spouting off about how you shouldn't be in a
relationship for a year. Except he was in one.
Then some other dude agrees with him. Except he was in one too.
So were both of their sponsors.
So were both of their grandsponsors.
So were 95% of the people in the room that night with more than a
year.
I just sat there and laughed.Then I thought about step 2--that in the
face of all evidence to the contrary, we continued doing things that
were fucking stupid and dangerous. That's what I considered the
insanity of using.
I guess that step just never takes hold with most people.
That, or most addicts I know are simply morons.
-
Public media should not contain explicit or implied descriptions of sex acts. Our society
should be purged of the perverts who provide the media with pornographic material while
pretending it has some redeeming social value under the public's 'right to know'. -- Kenneth
Starr, 1987, "Sixty Minutes"
Lance Dannan Bresee
> grandsponsors.
Why does that word,
and the subject,
just jump together in my mind.
--
This is my signature file.
Do you like it?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
spaceranger
<lance...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>postm...@damomen.com wrote:
>> grandsponsors.
>
>Why does that word,
>and the subject,
>just jump together in my mind.
Because you have a nicely twisted one.
and I'm quite envious.
Jon A.
The Space Ranger
Graveyard gives one a unique outlook on life
A dark one
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Lance Dannan Bresee
> Lance Dannan Bresee
> <lance...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >> grandsponsors.
> >
> >Why does that word,
> >and the subject,
> >just jump together in my mind.
>
> Because you have a nicely twisted one.
> and I'm quite envious.
>
But seriously,
we all need something from families.
If we don't get what we need from our biological family,
it makes perfect sense to seek a substitute.
I have done this.
I was adopted by Jack and Tia at 30.
They are my family.
Similarly,
certain social groups make natural substitutes for family support.
Churches are one.
The concept of "GodParents" is not troublesome.
AA groups are not much different.
Personally,
I would have a problem with sponsor as father figure,
but getting family needs fullfilled in AA is not
a troublesome concept.
So why should an extended family epithet applied to
an AA relationship seem silly?
But it does.
"Grandsponsor."
It seems silly to me.
Though I cannot for the life of me imagine why.
F H Thomas
> But seriously,
> we all need something from families.
> If we don't get what we need from our biological family,
> it makes perfect sense to seek a substitute.
Seriously,
The boys down at Butch Cassidys Saloon were my surrogate family for
years.
Frank
AlanS
news:393E6FFA...@dimensional.com...
>Including myself.
>I tell people that listening to advise from addicts about relationships
>is like listening to advise about babysitting from a serial killer.
>Steve
When I was in a treatment centre, they tried to say to us at one point that
if we wern't in a relationship at the moment, not to get into one for the
first five years of recovery.
I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had to go
five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
I hear people in NA say not to get into a relationship in the first year,
IMO this is contary to the BT. 'We believe that the sooner we face our
problems within our society, in everyday living, just that much faster do we
become acceptable, responsible, and productive members of that society.' pg
18, BT. Also 'We felt the sooner that the addict could face his problem in
everyday living, just that much faster would he become a real productive
citizen. We eventually have to stand on our own feet and face life on its
own terms, so why not from the start.' pg 85, BT.
>damian wrote:
>
>>Meetings are boring after you have some time, but they can be
>>entertaining at times. Case in point:
>>Some dude starts spouting off about how you shouldn't be in a
>>relationship for a year. Except he was in one.
>>Then some other dude agrees with him. Except he was in one too.
>>So were both of their sponsors.
>>So were both of their grandsponsors.
>>So were 95% of the people in the room that night with more than a
>>year.
>>I just sat there and laughed.Then I thought about step 2--that in the
>>face of all evidence to the contrary, we continued doing things that
>>were fucking stupid and dangerous. That's what I considered the
>>insanity of using.
>>I guess that step just never takes hold with most people.
>>That, or most addicts I know are simply morons.
AlanS
'Social acceptability does not equal recovery.'
Lance Dannan Bresee
>Quite frankly if I had to go
> five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
wimp
jazzzman
> When I was in a treatment centre, they tried to say to us at one point that
> if we wern't in a relationship at the moment, not to get into one for the
> first five years of recovery.
I've never heard 5 years.... only one.
> I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had to go
> five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
--
jazzzman
http://members.home.com/tigernest/control.html
If you are standing straight, do not worry if your shadow is crooked.
Chinese Proverb
wendi highland
Lance Dannan Bresee wrote:
>
> we all need something from families.
> If we don't get what we need from our biological family,
> it makes perfect sense to seek a substitute.
> I have done this.
> I was adopted by Jack and Tia at 30.
> They are my family.
> Similarly,
> certain social groups make natural substitutes for family support.
> Churches are one.
> The concept of "GodParents" is not troublesome.
> AA groups are not much different.
> Personally,
> I would have a problem with sponsor as father figure,
> but getting family needs fullfilled in AA is not
> a troublesome concept.
> So why should an extended family epithet applied to
> an AA relationship seem silly?
> But it does.
> "Grandsponsor."
> It seems silly to me.
> Though I cannot for the life of me imagine why.
That is wonderful something like that worked for you...I don't think I
would want to be adopted by anyone is AA. My family of origin was sick
enough..
Wendi
Steve N
Steve
Lance Dannan Bresee wrote:
>
> "AlanS" <sand...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
> >Quite frankly if I had to go
> > five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
>
> wimp
>
> --
> This is my signature file.
> Do you like it?
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
--
OK, no more cheap devices attempting to lure
untainted minds into the lurid and
degenerate world of my website at:
http://www.dimensional.com/~zoundman
AlanS
news:393E6DA6...@home.com...
> AlanS wrote:
>
>>When I was in a treatment centre, they tried to say to us at one
>>point that if we wern't in a relationship at the moment, not to get into
>>one for the first five years of recovery.
>
>I've never heard 5 years.... only one.
It was a salvation army treatment centre.
I've also heard it once or twice out of AA members mouths.
>>I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had
>>to go five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
>
>Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
True, but strange things often happen when you have sex with someone.
Strange things that sometimes result in relationships. All off the
relationships I've gotten into haven't started with dating but have started
with sex.
AlanS
news:8hlr1u$5d4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>"AlanS" <sand...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>
>>Quite frankly if I had to go
>>five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
>
I'll cop to that.
David Kay
> "Steve N" <zoun...@dimensional.com> wrote in message
> news:393E6FFA...@dimensional.com...
>
> >Including myself.
> >I tell people that listening to advise from addicts about relationships
> >is like listening to advise about babysitting from a serial killer.
> >Steve
>
> When I was in a treatment centre, they tried to say to us at one point
that
> if we wern't in a relationship at the moment, not to get into one for the
> first five years of recovery.
Five years! If they did that, they must have been a bunch of wankers when
they first got clean.
David Kay
> AlanS wrote:
>
> > When I was in a treatment centre, they tried to say to us at one point
that
> > if we wern't in a relationship at the moment, not to get into one for
the
> > first five years of recovery.
>
> I've never heard 5 years.... only one.
>
>
> > I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had to
go
> > five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
>
> Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
An affinity with your right hand does not constitue a relationship, jazz.
AlanS
<da...@dtk.com.au> spewed forth:
>"AlanS" <sand...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>
>> "Steve N" <zoun...@dimensional.com> wrote in message
>> news:393E6FFA...@dimensional.com...
>>
>> >Including myself.
>> >I tell people that listening to advise from addicts about relationships
>> >is like listening to advise about babysitting from a serial killer.
>> >Steve
>>
>>When I was in a treatment centre, they tried to say to us at one point
>>that if we wern't in a relationship at the moment, not to get into one for the
>>first five years of recovery.
>
>Five years! If they did that, they must have been a bunch of wankers when
>they first got clean.
Follows reason.
Steve N
David Kay wrote:
>
> "jazzzman" <tige...@home.com> wrote:
>
> > AlanS wrote:
> >
> > > When I was in a treatment centre, they tried to say to us at one point
> that
> > > if we wern't in a relationship at the moment, not to get into one for
> the
> > > first five years of recovery.
> >
> > I've never heard 5 years.... only one.
> >
> >
> > > I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had to
> go
> > > five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
> >
> > Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
>
> An affinity with your right hand does not constitue a relationship, jazz.
--
AlanS
<zoun...@dimensional.com> spewed forth:
>Or perhaps he was thinking of hookers?
Perhaps, that would be rather expensive though if you wanted to go at
it every night.
>David Kay wrote:
>>"jazzzman" <tige...@home.com> wrote:
>>> AlanS wrote:
>>>
>>>>When I was in a treatment centre, they tried to say to us at one point
>>>>that if we wern't in a relationship at the moment, not to get into one for
>>>>the first five years of recovery.
>>>
>>> I've never heard 5 years.... only one.
>>>
>>>>I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had to
>>>>go five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
>>>
>>>Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
>>
>>An affinity with your right hand does not constitue a relationship, jazz.
David Kay
> "jazzzman" <tige...@home.com> wrote:
>
> > AlanS wrote:
> >
> > > When I was in a treatment centre, they tried to say to us at one point
> that
> > > if we wern't in a relationship at the moment, not to get into one for
> the
> > > first five years of recovery.
> >
> > I've never heard 5 years.... only one.
> >
> >
> > > I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had
to
> go
> > > five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
> >
> > Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
>
> An affinity with your right hand does not constitue a relationship, jazz.
Make that... does not constitute sex.
MsNomer
"damian" <dam...@damomen.com> wrote in message
news:8hl4v...@news2.newsguy.com...
> Meetings are boring after you have some time, but they can be
> entertaining at times. Case in point:
> Some dude starts spouting off about how you shouldn't be in a
> relationship for a year. Except he was in one.
> Then some other dude agrees with him. Except he was in one too.
> So were both of their sponsors.
> So were both of their grandsponsors.
> So were 95% of the people in the room that night with more than a
> year.
> I just sat there and laughed.Then I thought about step 2--that in the
> face of all evidence to the contrary, we continued doing things that
> were fucking stupid and dangerous. That's what I considered the
> insanity of using.
> I guess that step just never takes hold with most people.
> That, or most addicts I know are simply morons.
Morons? Maybe it is moronic to suffer in denial. I heard two newcomers
critisizing each other in separated conversations...it goes something like
this:
"I have been sober for almost a year. My sobriety date is such and such. I
drank after that but it was just to be cordial because I was at some
people's home. Then I took mushrooms a month ago but that doesn't interfere
with sobriety because they are non addictive." says newcomer 1
"I am clean now but I don't think it is relaspe if you use once in a while"
newcomer 2
My denial is still present. Not to the above extreme but nevertheless I
still have it. Coming out of denial is what most AA's consider a moment of
clarity or a spiritual awakening.
For us it is a spiritual awakening while for a healthy non alcoholic it is
normal behavior :)
MsNomer
damian
wrote:
>Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
Dude, anytime you have sex with someone, that's a relationship, no
matter how short.
damian
<lance...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>postm...@damomen.com wrote:
>> grandsponsors.
>
>Why does that word,
>and the subject,
>just jump together in my mind.
Just a convenient term. Hell, my sponsor doesn't even have a sponsor.
At least not last time I talked to him :) (He's too old and they keep
dying on him ) But I do think it's silly. Around here, people talk of
their grandsponosrs with something like awe in their voices, which
scares me.
Steve N
You know, around here, the fastest way to get offers is to take a very public vow of chastity.
I dunno about your experience with that, Rob, but I'll bet that whatever vows you might have
taken were considerably more sincere than any I might, given my awareness of that fact.
;)
Steve
"Rob D." wrote:
>
> Are you saying the problem is I haven't hit puberty yet?
>
> Wow, wait'll John Paul finds out!
>
> 8)
>
> Rob
>
> -- My best email address is: rob...@writeme.com
>
> > From: Steve N <zoun...@dimensional.com>
> > Organization: Dimensional Communications
> > Reply-To: zoun...@dimensional.com
> > Newsgroups: alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa
> > Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 09:35:03 -0700
> > Subject: Re: Idiot Patrol
> >
> > LOL. I went YEARS without sex... 'course, then I hit puberty...
> > Steve
> >
> > Lance Dannan Bresee wrote:
> >>
> >> "AlanS" <sand...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
> >>> Quite frankly if I had to go
> >>> five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
> >>
> >> wimp
> >>
> >> --
> >> This is my signature file.
> >> Do you like it?
> >>
> >> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> >> Before you buy.
> >
Steve N
for a year and a half before deciding that he wasn't cut out for the life. Wasn't more than a
few months after he came home from that that he had a scare that he might have gotten his
girlfriend pregnant. He's a grandpa now thrice over. Been a good dad to three sons. Probably
made the right choice.
Steve
"Rob D." wrote:
>
> > From: Steve N <zoun...@dimensional.com>
> > Organization: Dimensional Communications
> > Reply-To: zoun...@dimensional.com
> > Newsgroups: alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa
> > Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 23:03:12 -0700
> > Subject: Re: Idiot Patrol
> >
> > You type well for a 12 year old! What's the Priestly equivalent of Doogie
> > Howser?
> > You know, around here, the fastest way to get offers is to take a very public
> > vow of chastity.
>
> Yuh. No woman ever flirted with me until the 7Eleven I stopped at 10
> minutes before arriving at the seminary in Dallas.
>
> I was pissed and elated at the same time.
>
> 8)
>
> Rob
jazzzman
> >>I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had
> >>to go five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
> >
> >Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
>
> True, but strange things often happen when you have sex with someone.
> Strange things that sometimes result in relationships. All off the
> relationships I've gotten into haven't started with dating but have started
> with sex.
Did you know that you could have sex with your self...
hey, it could even lead to a relationship with one's self.....
jazzzman
> > > I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had to
> go
> > > five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
> >
> > Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
>
> An affinity with your right hand does not constitue a relationship, jazz.
Yes... my point.
jazzzman
> > > > I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had
> to
> > go
> > > > five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
> > >
> > > Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
> >
> > An affinity with your right hand does not constitue a relationship, jazz.
>
> Make that... does not constitute sex.
Right..... and neither does a blow job....
Maybe you should get to know your right hand a little better, dude....
Rob D.
Wow, wait'll John Paul finds out!
8)
Rob
-- My best email address is: rob...@writeme.com
> From: Steve N <zoun...@dimensional.com>
> Organization: Dimensional Communications
> Reply-To: zoun...@dimensional.com
> Newsgroups: alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa
> Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 09:35:03 -0700
> Subject: Re: Idiot Patrol
>
> LOL. I went YEARS without sex... 'course, then I hit puberty...
> Steve
>
> Lance Dannan Bresee wrote:
>>
>> "AlanS" <sand...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>>> Quite frankly if I had to go
>>> five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
>>
>> wimp
>>
>> --
>> This is my signature file.
>> Do you like it?
>>
>> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>> Before you buy.
>
Miles Daggett
---at least the ones that keep going to meeting past the first couple of
years.
Rob D.
> From: Steve N <zoun...@dimensional.com>
> Organization: Dimensional Communications
> Reply-To: zoun...@dimensional.com
> Newsgroups: alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa
> Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 23:03:12 -0700
> Subject: Re: Idiot Patrol
>
Steve N
remembering, as we'd drive there from Carson City in my Mom's old beaters on monthly visiting
days - I remember driving through blizzards and even wild fires across the Central Valley of Ca.
- driving right through the fire as it burned the grassy hills on both sides of the road for
miles and miles. Very strange now that I recall that.
Didn't matter to the mom - I'd say she was hell bent, but that wouldn't exactly fit with a mom
going to visit her son in Seminary.
I remember him mailing home his laundry in these metal boxes with straps on them, and the
grounds of the Seminary seeming so spacious and perfectly manicured. I remember that there were
a lot of contemplative , secluded places - a long walk with the stations of the cross....
I was about eight when he left - He was the closest thing to a Dad I had (my own Dad being
stationed overseas, and not on good terms with my mother), six years older than I was. He was
the one who was there on the nights my mom would fail to come home - off on a bender, or he
would redirect her from taking after me in blind, drunken rages.
When he left for Seminary, it was like my safety net had been pulled out from under me, and I
was terrified. A lot of bad things did happen after he left, and I remember missing him
terribly. But by the time he'd returned, Mom was into her first year sober.
She leaned hard on him - he got a job at a Chevron station, and she would take most of his
checks to help pay bills - there was resentment building that I never knew about and wouldn't
have understood back then. On one occasion, My brother and his best friend hauled me out to New
Empire to a trailer compound and paid me a quarter to keep my mouth shut about it. I didn't
really get that my saintly brother was visiting one of the local Chicken Ranches. So much for
chastity. I'm sure he copped to it in confession though. I'm sure that his penance was more than
a couple of Hail Mary's too. I know that he wanted to be 'bad' *almost* as much as he wanted to
be 'good'.
Later in life - I became a rebellious, self willed little hippie - ran away from home & took
out for San Francisco and Berkeley for the summer AFTER the summer of love - 1969. My brother
secretly resented the freedom I claimed and the irresponsibility that I "got away with". I
suppose to him, that's how it looked, though to me it looked more like living in filthy crash
pads, sleeping under bridges, getting beat up by cops, and ultimately being institutionalized at
the tender age of 16.
Nobody would have predicted back then that down the road, I would end up being the reliable one
in the family who helped with Mom's affairs when she got sick, who patched up the family
quarrels, and settled into a family home for nearly 20 years (that not being as 'stable' as it
sounds).
My brother got caught up in a tide of religious fervor and drove a lot of people away with his
zeal and evangelism in his mid 30's. He moved his family to Idaho with some carpet bagging
preacher back in the early 80's, and ended up having to move back to Denver having lost
everything his family owned, as well as a lot of his religious fervor.
His life leveled out and he found some balance, but he never did really resolve a lot of the
old resentments with Mom, and just couldn't be there much for her as she got ill and failed. One
thing that he did, which I couldn't have done, was talk to the Priest at my mom's old parish,
and set things up for my Mom's memorial at the church. I was grateful for that on a lot of
levels. First, because her hospice care had worn me down, and I didn't have a lot left for
handling that aspect of things (I'd already done everything regarding the burial arrangements &
all that) but mostly because it gave him something to do in the process, something that he could
look back on and say he'd contributed.
I don't think that my brother was cut out for the priesthood. I think that to him, Seminary
looked like a way out of the oppression of being the oldest son of a single, alcoholic mother. I
know that in a lot of ways, my life still looks enviable to him, and maybe some of that old
resentment is still there - all these years down the line. I know that I still think back on the
times he was there on those long, sleepless frightened nights - he was reassuring and steady -
even though he was just a little boy himself. To me he was a rock. Poor guy should have had the
chance to just be a kid.
Every so often he'll call and say, "Hey, I'd like to get together with you to talk about some
stuff around Mom", but so far, he's never shown for any of the times we've arranged. Someday
maybe. Anyway, it's late and I'm ramblin' on.... thanks for setting a few old memories loose,
Rob. I can almost smell the smoke of those grass fires, you know?
Steve
Steve N wrote:
>
> I'll bet! My brother went to Seminary at Carmel, Ca., (can't remember the name now) He made it
> for a year and a half before deciding that he wasn't cut out for the life. Wasn't more than a
> few months after he came home from that that he had a scare that he might have gotten his
> girlfriend pregnant. He's a grandpa now thrice over. Been a good dad to three sons. Probably
> made the right choice.
> Steve
>
> "Rob D." wrote:
> >
wendi highland
AlanS wrote:
> "jazzzman" <tige...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:393E6DA6...@home.com...
> > AlanS wrote:
> >
> >>When I was in a treatment centre, they tried to say to us at one
> >>point that if we wern't in a relationship at the moment, not to get into
> >>one for the first five years of recovery.
> >
> >I've never heard 5 years.... only one.
Curious about where it says this in the big book! I think it is important to
gain a relationship with your higher power and yourself...This is the
suggestion I make. Staying out of relationships is something I never advise
because I would bet that is the first thing most would do. My sponsor never
told me that. I was more interested in working on myself anyway...
>
>
> It was a salvation army treatment centre.
> I've also heard it once or twice out of AA members mouths.
>
> >>I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had
> >>to go five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
> >
> >Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
>
> True, but strange things often happen when you have sex with someone.
> Strange things that sometimes result in relationships. All off the
> relationships I've gotten into haven't started with dating but have started
> with sex.
I have a great relationship that is not based on sex. Have you ever tried a
relationship that does'nt involve sex?
Wendi
wendi highland
Steve N wrote:
> Or perhaps he was thinking of hookers?
>
Speaking from my own personal experience a good percentage of men in AA use
hookers to avoid relationships.
Wendi
wendi highland
wonderful opportunity to learn about myeslf..
Wendi
David Kay wrote:
> "AlanS" <sand...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>
> > "Steve N" <zoun...@dimensional.com> wrote in message
> > news:393E6FFA...@dimensional.com...
> >
> > >Including myself.
> > >I tell people that listening to advise from addicts about relationships
> > >is like listening to advise about babysitting from a serial killer.
> > >Steve
> >
> > When I was in a treatment centre, they tried to say to us at one point
> that
> > if we wern't in a relationship at the moment, not to get into one for the
> > first five years of recovery.
>
AlanS
<tige...@home.com> spewed forth:
>AlanS wrote:
>>jazzman wrote:
>>>AlanS wrote:
>>>
>>>>I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had
>>>>to go five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
>>>
>>>Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
>>
>>True, but strange things often happen when you have sex with someone.
>>Strange things that sometimes result in relationships. All off the
>>relationships I've gotten into haven't started with dating but have started
>>with sex.
>
Why would I want to do that?
AlanS
news:393F1BA8...@nmsu.edu...
> AlanS wrote:
>>"jazzzman" <tige...@home.com> wrote:
>>>AlanS wrote:
>>>
>>>>When I was in a treatment centre, they tried to say to us at one
>>>>point that if we wern't in a relationship at the moment, not to get
>>>>into one for the first five years of recovery.
>>>
>
>Curious about where it says this in the big book! I think it is important
>to gain a relationship with your higher power and yourself...This is the
>suggestion I make. Staying out of relationships is something I never
>advise because I would bet that is the first thing most would do. My
>sponsor never told me that. I was more interested in working on
>myself anyway...
To my knowledge it does not say that anywhere in the BB. Nor does it say it
in the BT, that doesn't stop people sprouting of in meetings that it is a
suggested thing not to get into a intimate relationship in the first year.
Quite frankly to my way of thinking all of the suggested things are spelled
out plainly in chapter 5 of the BT 'What can I do?', and there aint nothing
in there about relationships.
>>It was a salvation army treatment centre.
>>I've also heard it once or twice out of AA members mouths.
>>
>>>>I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I
>>>>had to go five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
>>>
>>>Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
>>
>>True, but strange things often happen when you have sex with
>>someone. Strange things that sometimes result in relationships. All
>>off the relationships I've gotten into haven't started with dating but
>>have started with sex.
>
>I have a great relationship that is not based on sex. Have you ever
>tried a relationship that does'nt involve sex?
AlanS
AlanS
<ghig...@nmsu.edu> spewed forth:
Perhaps it could be saud they're avoiding life of life's terms.
Kimba
wrote:
>Wow, wait'll John Paul finds out!
I don't he's hit it yet, either <g>
Kimba
--If the night has been too lonely
And the road has been too long
And you think that love is only
For the lucky and the strong -
It's not :)
Kim and Rene 5/12/00
Jana Klein
wrote:
>On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:45:26 GMT, in alt.recovery.aa, jazzzman
><tige...@home.com> spewed forth:
>>AlanS wrote:
>>>jazzman wrote:
>>>>AlanS wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had
>>>>>to go five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
>>>>
>>>>Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
>>>
>>>True, but strange things often happen when you have sex with someone.
>>>Strange things that sometimes result in relationships. All off the
>>>relationships I've gotten into haven't started with dating but have started
>>>with sex.
>>
>>Did you know that you could have sex with your self...
>
>Why would I want to do that?
>
>
>AlanS
>'Social acceptability does not equal recovery.'
Cheap Date
Don't have someone hanging around your place in the morning....
Avoid getting married
Avoid her moving in.
Avoid diseases (and doctors, clinics and bills)
Avoid child support
Avoid expense of Trojans, dental dams, and
Avoid the hazard of the "homicidal ex of your current significant
other."
Don't have to pretend you like his dog/her cats.
Don't wake up miles away from your toothbrush.
Don't have to break up..
Fewer Christmas presents to buy.
NO expectations.
Gosh I can think of more... but I'm out of time.
Jana K.
9/28/83
AlanS
jana...@deja.com (Jana Klein) spewed forth:
>On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:27:34 GMT, AlanS <sand...@iprimus.com.au>
>wrote:
>>On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:45:26 GMT, in alt.recovery.aa, jazzzman
>><tige...@home.com> spewed forth:
>>>AlanS wrote:
>>>>jazzman wrote:
>>>>>AlanS wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had
>>>>>>to go five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
>>>>>
>>>>>Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
>>>>
>>>>True, but strange things often happen when you have sex with someone.
>>>>Strange things that sometimes result in relationships. All off the
>>>>relationships I've gotten into haven't started with dating but have started
>>>>with sex.
>>>
>>>Did you know that you could have sex with your self...
>>
>>Why would I want to do that?
>
I have never dated.
>Don't have someone hanging around your place in the morning....
>
>Avoid getting married
>
>Avoid her moving in.
>
>Avoid diseases (and doctors, clinics and bills)
>
>Avoid child support
That's why god invented condoms.
>Avoid expense of Trojans, dental dams, and
Trojans
>Avoid the hazard of the "homicidal ex of your current significant
>other."
He's on the other side of the country.
>Don't have to pretend you like his dog/her cats.
She don't have any.
>Don't wake up miles away from your toothbrush.
I hate when that happens.
>Don't have to break up..
>
>Fewer Christmas presents to buy.
>
>NO expectations.
>
>Gosh I can think of more... but I'm out of time.
JoeRaisin
He urged us to not just drag ourselves in there and use ourselves...
He suggest we treat ourselves with respect... You know... a nice romantic
dinner for one....
--
JoeRaisin
Jana Klein <jana...@deja.com> wrote in message
news:393f8070...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
> On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:27:34 GMT, AlanS <sand...@iprimus.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:45:26 GMT, in alt.recovery.aa, jazzzman
> ><tige...@home.com> spewed forth:
> >>AlanS wrote:
> >>>jazzman wrote:
> >>>>AlanS wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had
> >>>>>to go five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
> >>>>
> >>>>Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
> >>>
> >>>True, but strange things often happen when you have sex with someone.
> >>>Strange things that sometimes result in relationships. All off the
> >>>relationships I've gotten into haven't started with dating but have
started
> >>>with sex.
> >>
> >>Did you know that you could have sex with your self...
> >
> >Why would I want to do that?
> >
> >
> >AlanS
> >'Social acceptability does not equal recovery.'
>
>
>
> Cheap Date
>
>
> Don't have someone hanging around your place in the morning....
>
> Avoid getting married
>
> Avoid her moving in.
>
> Avoid diseases (and doctors, clinics and bills)
>
> Avoid child support
>
> Avoid expense of Trojans, dental dams, and
>
> Avoid the hazard of the "homicidal ex of your current significant
> other."
>
> Don't have to pretend you like his dog/her cats.
>
> Don't wake up miles away from your toothbrush.
>
> Don't have to break up..
>
> Fewer Christmas presents to buy.
>
> NO expectations.
>
>
>
>
> Gosh I can think of more... but I'm out of time.
>
> Jana K.
> 9/28/83
David Kay
> AlanS wrote:
>
> > "jazzzman" <tige...@home.com> wrote in message
> > news:393E6DA6...@home.com...
> > > AlanS wrote:
> > >
> > >>When I was in a treatment centre, they tried to say to us at one
> > >>point that if we wern't in a relationship at the moment, not to get
into
> > >>one for the first five years of recovery.
> > >
> > >I've never heard 5 years.... only one.
>
> Curious about where it says this in the big book! I think it is important
to
> gain a relationship with your higher power and yourself...This is the
> suggestion I make. Staying out of relationships is something I never
advise
> because I would bet that is the first thing most would do. My sponsor
never
> told me that. I was more interested in working on myself anyway...
When I first entered the rooms, someone asked me whether I would really want
to be in a relationship with someone who wanted to be in a relationship with
me.
The answer was obvious.
David Kay
> On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:45:26 GMT, in alt.recovery.aa, jazzzman
> <tige...@home.com> spewed forth:
> >AlanS wrote:
> >>jazzman wrote:
> >>>AlanS wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had
> >>>>to go five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
> >>>
> >>>Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
> >>
> >>True, but strange things often happen when you have sex with someone.
> >>Strange things that sometimes result in relationships. All off the
> >>relationships I've gotten into haven't started with dating but have
started
> >>with sex.
> >
> >Did you know that you could have sex with your self...
>
> Why would I want to do that?
Don't do it, Alan. You've already told us that if someone has sex with you,
you're theirs. Think of the consequences.
Miles Daggett
gene------Damn!!! What an incredible business opportunity! Get a bunch of
girls looking to supplement their income, buy lists of names of guys who
just got out of treatment centers and suddenly your a millionaire!!!!!!!!!!
"wendi highland" <ghig...@nmsu.edu> wrote in message
news:393F1C20...@nmsu.edu...
>
>
> Steve N wrote:
>
> > Or perhaps he was thinking of hookers?
> >
>
> Speaking from my own personal experience a good percentage of men in AA
use
> hookers to avoid relationships.
> Wendi
>
Michael H.
It's sex with someone I love
Woody Allen
--
Peace
Michael H.
"AlanS" wrote
AlanS
<da...@dtk.com.au> spewed forth:
>"AlanS" <sand...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:45:26 GMT, in alt.recovery.aa, jazzzman
>><tige...@home.com> spewed forth:
>>>AlanS wrote:
>>>>jazzman wrote:
>>>>>AlanS wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had
>>>>>>to go five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
>>>>>
>>>>>Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
>>>>
>>>>True, but strange things often happen when you have sex with someone.
>>>>Strange things that sometimes result in relationships. All off the
>>>>relationships I've gotten into haven't started with dating but have
>>>>started with sex.
>>>
>>>Did you know that you could have sex with your self...
>>
>
>you're theirs. Think of the consequences.
Could be disastrous, yes I think I shall comit to only having sex with
other people and not with myself.
Tommy kins
--
POLICE STATION TOILET STOLEN ......Cops have nothing to go on.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.
You have the capacity to learn from your mistakes. You will learn a
lot today.
HECK IS WHERE PEOPLE GO WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN GOSH
Time is just nature's way to keep everything from happening at once.
Hard work never killed anyone, but why chance it?
All true wisdom is found on T-shirts.
Strip Mining Prevents Forest Fires.
I don't have a solution; but I do admire the problem.
I think sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it.
A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS But it uses up a thousand times
the
memory.
The Meek shall inherit the earth...after we're through with it.
Two can live as cheaply as one ... for half as long.
HAM AND EGGS: A day's work for a chicken; A lifetime commitment for a
pig.
Lord, If I can't be skinny, please let all my friends be fat.
Good Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.
THE BUCK DOESN'T EVEN SLOW DOWN HERE - So keep on going.
Confession is good for the soul, but bad for your career.
Sometimes too much to drink isn't enough.
JESUS LOVES YOU - It's everybody else that thinks you're an ass.
It's hard to make a comeback -- when you haven't been anywhere.
WELCOME TO UTAH - Set your watch back 20 years.
Don't get married. Find a woman you hate and buy her a house. It's a
lot
easier on you.
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
The trouble with life is there's no background music.
I was only looking at your name tag, honest!
When blondes have more fun do they know it?
Money isn't everything, But it sure keeps the kids in touch.
What happens if you get scared half to death twice?
Losing a husband can be hard. In my case it was almost impossible.
JESUS IS COMING! Look Busy.
We have enough youth. How about a fountain of "Smart"?
Suicidal Twin Kills Sister By Mistake!
Two wrongs do not make a right, but three lefts do.
Is reading in the bathroom considered Multitasking?
Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of it.
Tommy K (Dublin)
tomm...@indigo.ie take out INSurance to reply
Rob D. <htduc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:B5649BA4.705F%htduc...@yahoo.com...
> Are you saying the problem is I haven't hit puberty yet?
>
> Wow, wait'll John Paul finds out!
>
> 8)
>
> Rob
>
> -- My best email address is: rob...@writeme.com
>
>
> > From: Steve N <zoun...@dimensional.com>
> > Organization: Dimensional Communications
> > Reply-To: zoun...@dimensional.com
> > Newsgroups: alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa
> > Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 09:35:03 -0700
> > Subject: Re: Idiot Patrol
> >
> > LOL. I went YEARS without sex... 'course, then I hit puberty...
> > Steve
> >
> > Lance Dannan Bresee wrote:
> >>
> >> "AlanS" <sand...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
> >>> Quite frankly if I had to go
> >>> five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
> >>
> >> wimp
> >>
> >> --
> >> This is my signature file.
> >> Do you like it?
> >>
> >> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> >> Before you buy.
> >
David M
>
> Could be disastrous, yes I think I shall comit to only having sex with
> other people and not with myself.
>
That would, as the now departed great philosopher (who possibly never
penetrated Australia) put it, make you master of your domain.
Steve N
around my personal history stuff. Is it possible that a 14 year old (freshman in High School)
could be in Seminary? The oldest he could have been was 15, and a sophmore, by my figuring (?).
Still seems a bit young, but had to be around in that time, because I have no doubt about the
fact that my mom got sober while he was away.
Steve
> > > From: Steve N <zoun...@dimensional.com>
> > > Organization: Dimensional Communications
> > > Reply-To: zoun...@dimensional.com
> > > Newsgroups: alt.recovery.na,alt.recovery.aa
> > > Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 23:03:12 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: Idiot Patrol
> > >
> > > You type well for a 12 year old! What's the Priestly equivalent of Doogie
> > > Howser?
> > > You know, around here, the fastest way to get offers is to take a very public
> > > vow of chastity.
> >
> > Yuh. No woman ever flirted with me until the 7Eleven I stopped at 10
> > minutes before arriving at the seminary in Dallas.
> >
> > I was pissed and elated at the same time.
> >
> > 8)
> >
> > Rob
>
Pete
One of my favorite AA couples had a torrid time for the first two
years of their relationship, stayed celibate in the relationship for a
year (quite openly -- they made it a public part of their program to
their friends), and then had a wonderful time with each other. They
are now together 17 years.
I was celibate for 3 years before my current relationship. I made
several solid friendships. They were a lot more fulfilling than some
casual friction that usually ended up with the person drifting out of
my life.
One of those friendships developed into a relationship, about 10% of
which -- albeit a very fullfilling and enjoyable 10% -- is physically
sexual.
Sexuality can go a whole lot of other places than just meat and
motion. The expoloration of how a man and woman fit together -- and
the honoring and support for the ways they don't (private space) --
elevates things from friendship to companionship for us.
Which is what it finally is all about. IMO, anyway.
Pete
On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 04:06:00 +0000, wendi highland <ghig...@nmsu.edu>
wrote:
>AlanS wrote:
>
>> "jazzzman" <tige...@home.com> wrote in message
>> news:393E6DA6...@home.com...
>> > AlanS wrote:
>> >
>> >>When I was in a treatment centre, they tried to say to us at one
>> >>point that if we wern't in a relationship at the moment, not to get into
>> >>one for the first five years of recovery.
>> >
snip
>> >>I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had
>> >>to go five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
>> >
>> >Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
>>
snip
>
>I have a great relationship that is not based on sex. Have you ever tried a
>relationship that does'nt involve sex?
>Wendi
>
Pete
Pete
On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:53:48 GMT, AlanS <sand...@iprimus.com.au>
wrote:
>On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 04:08:01 +0000, in alt.recovery.na, wendi highland
><ghig...@nmsu.edu> spewed forth:
>>Steve N wrote:
>>
>>> Or perhaps he was thinking of hookers?
>>>
>>
>>Speaking from my own personal experience a good percentage of men in AA use
>>hookers to avoid relationships.
>
>Perhaps it could be saud they're avoiding life of life's terms.
>
Pete
Pete
On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:27:34 GMT, AlanS <sand...@iprimus.com.au>
wrote:
>On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:45:26 GMT, in alt.recovery.aa, jazzzman
><tige...@home.com> spewed forth:
>>AlanS wrote:
>>>jazzman wrote:
>>>>AlanS wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I've heard that said by people in AA as well. Quite frankly if I had
>>>>>to go five years without sex I'd have to shot myself
>>>>
>>>>Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
>>>
>>>True, but strange things often happen when you have sex with someone.
>>>Strange things that sometimes result in relationships. All off the
>>>relationships I've gotten into haven't started with dating but have started
>>>with sex.
>>
>>Did you know that you could have sex with your self...
>
>Why would I want to do that?
>
>
damian
<mdag...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, you got me there.
-
Public media should not contain explicit or implied descriptions of sex acts. Our society
should be purged of the perverts who provide the media with pornographic material while
pretending it has some redeeming social value under the public's 'right to know'. -- Kenneth
Starr, 1987, "Sixty Minutes"
Ken Robertson
wrote:
>
>Speaking from my own personal experience a good percentage of men in AA use
>hookers to avoid relationships.
>Wendi
>
trying to understand what you mean ,
are you a man or a hooker ?
Craig S.
news:A572D508873CC003.B099E1A3...@lp.airnews.net...
> trying to understand what you mean ,
> are you a man or a hooker ?
Well, she is in the business of selling "dolls," and she works until 3:30am.
Which do you think?
AlanS
pete...@qis.net (Pete) spewed forth:
>Hmmmm -- your typing lacks it's usual precision.... ;-)
Precise you say, surely not.
> AlanS <sand...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>>On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 04:08:01 +0000, in alt.recovery.na, wendi highland
>><ghig...@nmsu.edu> spewed forth:
>>>Steve N wrote:
>>>
>>>> Or perhaps he was thinking of hookers?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Speaking from my own personal experience a good percentage of men in AA use
>>>hookers to avoid relationships.
>>
>>Perhaps it could be saud they're avoiding life of life's terms.
AlanS
David Kay
> On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 04:08:01 +0000, wendi highland <ghig...@nmsu.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Speaking from my own personal experience a good percentage of men in AA
use
> >hookers to avoid relationships.
> >Wendi
> >
> trying to understand what you mean ,
> are you a man or a hooker ?
ROTFLMAO!
Have you got your funny hat on today, Ken?
David Kay
> There's lies, damn lies, and what, jazzzman <tige...@home.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
>
> Dude, anytime you have sex with someone, that's a relationship, no
> matter how short.
A three minute relationship? Wow.
Jim
Miles Daggett wrote
What an incredible business opportunity! Get a bunch of
>girls looking to supplement their income, buy lists of names of guys who
>just got out of treatment centers and suddenly your a millionaire!!!!!!!!!!
To increase Group support, I highly recommend holding a monthly "Hooker
Raffle."
Jimb
Steve N
meeting by two buddies who were now "Sober Souls". They sat him down in a chair next to this
sexy blonde, who immediately began to lavish attention on him. After the meeting, they struck up
a conversation that led to a liason in a nearby motel room. The next day, and the day after
that, and the day after that, the guy showed up at the meeting sober, showered, groomed and
looking for the blonde, whom he never saw again. At his one year anniversary, his friends copped
to hiring him a hooker for that first meeting.
From the 'whatever it takes' department.
Steve
--
Craig S.
news:j_R%4.1138$eU1....@weber.videotron.net...
>
> wendi highland wrote
> >Speaking from my own personal experience a good percentage of men in AA
use
> >hookers to avoid relationships.
>
>
Or at least a little bit of heaven.
Jim
wendi highland wrote
>Speaking from my own personal experience a good percentage of men in AA use
>hookers to avoid relationships.
That is their concept of God.
Jimb
Ken Robertson
wrote:
maybe he wasn't talking about time when he said short
damian
wrote:
>"damian" <dam...@damomen.com> wrote:
>
>> There's lies, damn lies, and what, jazzzman <tige...@home.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Who says going without a relationship means going without sex?
>>
>> Dude, anytime you have sex with someone, that's a relationship, no
>> matter how short.
>
>A three minute relationship? Wow.
*3* minutes ? What are you, a porn star? Lucky bastard.
unjon harley
it s a joke
us long timers have been pulling this on new be's for years
listen up one more time.... if it isn't in the book it s not program
Jon B.
Work like you don't need money, Love like you've never been hurt,and
Dance like no one's watching
wendi highland
Pete wrote:
Thank you Pete, it is nice to know I am not the only one. I am grateful for the
friendship that has developed between me and my friend. And we are just taking
things slow.
To me, sex is like fringe benefits to the relationship.
I was always told the relationship is what is in between the 2 that are working
on themselves.
Wendi
Jim
Steve N wrote
>looking for the blonde, whom he never saw again. At his one year
anniversary, his friends copped to hiring him a hooker for that first
meeting.
Some of the French groups here in Quebec will chip in for an "oil change"
for male members who have been sexually abstinent for 2 years.
Jimb
Rob D.
-- My best email address is: rob...@writeme.com
> From: Steve N <zoun...@dimensional.com>
>
> This is something I have consistently found I have trouble with - getting
> chronologies straight
> around my personal history stuff. Is it possible that a 14 year old (freshman
> in High School)
> could be in Seminary? The oldest he could have been was 15, and a sophmore, by
> my figuring (?).
> Still seems a bit young, but had to be around in that time, because I have no
(Seriously snipped)
Ugh. What a recipe for disaster, and in the early to mid 60's no less.
Your brother could have been in a High School Seminary. There are very few
of those left...I don't even know of one. In the bad old days, a boy could
enter minor orders before puberty, which meant that he had to be dispensed
later if he left and wanted to marry.
Seems so bizarre, now, but much more is understood about psycosexual
development than in the pre-sixties. And just as they were working all that
out, Vatican II came along and sent everything topsy turvy. We actually had
idiot professors in the sem in the 60's who told guys to go ahead and get
ordained, even if they had doubts about celibacy, because that was all going
to change.
When it didn't, we had a mass exodus of young men who felt betrayed. And
they had been, primarily by their priest-professors, who told them to make a
promise they did not take seriously.
All in a ll, it was a very messed up time in the 60's (I wasn't really
there...I was born in 1960), both in the Church, and in society as a whole.
We are still reeling from the aftereffects.
Rob
Michael H.
Are you saying that you are a hooker that has had personal experience with
AA men who were avoiding relationships? Seriously...that's how I read it.
--
Peace
Michael H.
"wendi highland" <ghig...@nmsu.edu> wrote in message
news:393F1C20...@nmsu.edu...
|
|
| Steve N wrote:
|
| > Or perhaps he was thinking of hookers?
| >
|
| Speaking from my own personal experience a good percentage of men in AA
use
| hookers to avoid relationships.
| Wendi
|
Space_...@yahoo.com
Lance Dannan Bresee <lance...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> spaceranger <space_rang...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> > Because you have a nicely twisted one.
> > and I'm quite envious.
> >
> I'll take that as a compliment.
Good! That's how it was meant.
> But seriously,
If you insist...
> we all need something from families.
> If we don't get what we need from our biological family,
> it makes perfect sense to seek a substitute.
> I have done this.
I'd be willing to bet that we all have, at one time or another.
I know that I have, when I was far from home.
--
Jon A.
The Space Ranger
Graveyard gives one a unique outlook on life.
A dark one.
wendi highland
did meet.
Wendi
Michael H.
percentage of men in AA use hookers to avoid relationships." how many would
that be ...by your reckoning? What percentage? And then how does that relate
to the percentage of the non AA men who fuck for money? And by the way...is
this from when you were "out there" or are you of the mind that this works
as a sober lifestyle? I do know of some people in AA who advocate sex for
money however those are persons I personally would choose to stay away from.
I believe that their participation in this practice is a continuation of
self centered self gratification and ultimately needs to be faced as such.
The personal experience I have had and as far as I have heard from women as
well as men who have been in that situation and have looked deeply and
honestly into what is created on both sides from it is that it really does
not work out well for anyone involved. In fact I know some men and women in
AA who have chosen to participate in prostitution while sober with
justifications and explanations that seem to hold up well for a while, but
then they have found it very hard to live with the moral injustices present
in such a situation. Some so much so that they have once again returned to
drinking and using and have come to believe - first hand - that this can not
be a part of their lives as a sober individual.
--
Peace
Michael H.
"wendi highland" <ghig...@nmsu.edu> wrote in message
news:3940C430...@nmsu.edu...
Lech K. Lesiak
> Speaking from my own personal experience a good percentage of men in AA use
> hookers to avoid relationships.
Do you think that's why my home group once had monthly hooker raffles?
Cheers,
Lech
Miles Daggett
meetings!!!!
--
"...the opinions and belief of men depend not on their own will, but follow
involuntarily the evidence proposed to their minds..."
TJ
"Lech K. Lesiak" <lkle...@calcna.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.A41.4.05.100061...@srv1.calcna.ab.ca...
David M
> --
> Peace
> Michael H.
>
Gentlemen may cry: "Peace! Peace!" -- but there is no peace. The next gale
that sweeps from Michael H. may drown us all in sanctimonious superiority.
Tommy kins
wendi highland <ghig...@nmsu.edu> wrote in message
news:3942910C...@nmsu.edu...
>
>
> "Michael H." wrote:
>
> > OK so... If your personal experience as a
>
> Have'nt any clue on the latter, but yes, there are probably more
than most are
> willing to admit. Many who sit and talk in meetings about how well
they are
> working their programs still engage in pretty sick behavior. I
could'nt say for
> a fact any kind of percentage, but God how could anyone not think
that it goes
> on?
>
> > Wendi
OK, Judge not lest you be judged - seems as good an outlet as any to
me !!
Like I say I still judge me on my intentions, and I allow 'others' to
judge me by my actions.
Ce sera sera.
Tommy
Tommy
AlanS
"Michael H." <prml...@primenet.com> wrote in message
news:8i27kv$qj7$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com...
<snip>
> Alan S asked couple of questions maybe you can answer.
>
> "AlanS" wrote
>>Dude when you say 'principles in all our affairs' which principle are
>>you inplying that she would be breaking by selling herself, if that is
>>the case(and I mean her not her costumers)?
>
>I don't think he meant your wardrobe people. ;-)
I wasn't asking her, I was asking her. You suggested she wasn't practising
'principles in all our affairs' So I ask you again, which priciple would she
not be practising?
>> Secondly who would she be harming, besides herself, that she
>>would owe an amend?
>
>I don't mind if you don't answer.
>This is something that only you can answer.
Again I asked you. You were the one who suggested amends were owed. If you
are going to be righteous and suggest amends are owed, you might as well say
who would be harmed and in what way they were harmed.
>I think we might get something out of your point of view.
>Might wake some men here up a little.
>Unless you truly perceive yourself as a victim.
>I'll give you my personal response in a similar situation.
>You know ... my part.
>
>It goes like this. And this is a hard one.
>I put myself in the situation and chose to interact with another person
>from a point of view of dishonesty in order to get what I wanted.
>Thus I allowed a "relationship" with another person to be short of
>what they and I really seek and did so for my own personal gain.
>True I hurt myself. That does not justify that I also hurt another. I
>have amends to us both.
Dishonesty?
Michael H.
Sorry if I insulted you or who you consider yourself to be.
I sent my response to Wendi before I even saw this.
Oh ye of little faith.
Hang in there man ...
This too shall pass. I hope!
;-)
--
Peace
Michael H.
"Pete" <pete...@qis.net> wrote in message
news:39447817....@news.qis.net...
| I spent the first seventeen months of sobriety in daily proximity with
| prostitues in recovery. I got to hear them work through issues every
| day. The attitude that you carried in that post would have lasted
| about three minutes sitting in an encounter group with them.
|
| Most of those women drank or drugged or both again, over relationship
| issues. The ones that didn't make an effort to maintain their sobriety
| through AA or NA, anyway. The ones that didn't find some basis of
| sisterhood to get them through some rough times that you and I will
| never quite understand unless we've *sexually* tricked ourselves. And
| then only partially. Seeing as how you and I never daily risked the
| ability to be a mother through our professional activities.
|
| I strongly believe that Wendi graced you with her reply. A good
| number of my rehab sisters would have either told you to piss up a
| rope or tricked you off, so to speak, with some bullshit.
|
| Think about something. By posting the views on men who use
| prostitutes you did, what are you implicitly saying about the women
| who satisfy their needs? Yeah, I used the word prurient. On that
| basis. That and what I believe is the very basic lack of respect of
| not asking if it's ok to discuss a potentially sensitive topic, and
| the hell with the (sometimes licentious) posting freedom of araa.
| That's how the tone of your post *felt* to me.
|
| Hell yeah, Wendi can take care of herself. She's alive. She's sober.
| I'm here to tell you that if she spent some years on the street (and I
| don't mean as a hooker) that she's got a skin like iron when she
| chooses to wear it. Don't mistake respect and affirmation in my post
| for caretaking.
|
| You gonna clean it up? Show me.
|
| On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 19:34:09 -0700, "Michael H."
| <prml...@primenet.com> wrote:
|
| >God Pete ...prurient?
| >That's what whores, do at least of the type we were discussing. They have
| >sex. That was the topic.The topic was about sex and AA. I related to both
| >and commented. I think some reactions were rather prudish... not Wendies
| >though.
| >You see as she said she's been called worse. Me too. It's interesting how
| >some guy's jump to the "poor girls" aid as if she can't do it herself.
She
| >did OK and I'll answer her later tonight. She seems to be up to the
| >challenge. That for me here is to represent myself truthfully with the
| >intention of growing together in the principals of AA so as to become
better
| >people in all of our interactions and opportunities to "act into" in
life.
| >This is what matters. How we live. Here and in "real life". I gave a
quick
| >scan of her reply and she seems to agree pretty much.
| >I also use the term whore with the deepest sense of affinity and love. As
| >personally I have whored myself as I'm sure you have at some time or
other.
| >( Some of my best friends are whores) ;-)
| >
| >http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=whore
| >I really liked the definitions. Especially...
| >
| >2. (Script.) To worship false and impure gods.
| >
| >And just as an aside. I was speaking to the comment she made generalizing
| >men in AA. That's you too. I have seen and personally dealt with this
issue
| >and felt compelled to let the girl know that not all men deal with sex
from
| >the angle she presented. In fact I went as far as to state that I feel
that
| >those that do are dealing with relationships from a very sick level and
have
| >much to learn in that regard. I personally have my own demons that we
will
| >discuss in my response to Wendi. I love this NG. I have a habit of
getting
| >into things that matter deeply to me and I always learn. More will be
| >revealed.
| >
| >--
| >
| >Peace
| >Michael H.
| >
| >The love you take is equal to the love you make
| >Lennon/Macartney
| >
| >
| >"Pete" wrote
| >| I have a lot of respect for the way you answered this post. I thought
| >| it was demeaning, belittling, and prurient.
| >
| >
| >
|
Michael H.
But specifically on this.
Reaching out.
That is what AA is about.
I do not specifically seek out prostitutes to help.
There are many forms of spiritual dis-ease and expressions are abundant.
God places me where God wants.
I feel it is my job to act into all interactions from a place of peace and
love.
As I said, I don't do very well sometimes - others times not bad. ;-) Who am
I to really know one from the other.
The interactions I have now that I feel are most important are with our
girls. The chance that I have because I am sober to be there as a consistent
loving caring father is the front line as far as I'm concerned. What good am
I if I "sponsor a child" from TV when my own house is not in order. We all
live in pain. It's my job to heal it when faced with it.
I love the scene from "As Good As It Gets" Helen Hunt ( Carol ) and Greg
Kinnear ( Simon ) are in the front seat of the car with Jack Nicholson
Melvin ) in the back center between them. The two in the front are
discussing how life is full of pain and the like. Validating each others
experience. Jack leans forward and insists that it's not like that for
everyone.
Script copy:
Carol, whose life has been rugged but basic, feels as
strange as she does moved by Simon's trauma which is so
much more complicated than her meat and potatoes
troubles. She looks out her window -- then kisses her
fingers and touches them to Simon's cheek. A nice,
understated, gesture of friendship.
CAROL
Well, you know -- I still stay
what I said. You've got to get
past it all when it comes to your
parents. We all have these horror
stories to get over.
Melvin shifts INTO the FRAME.
MELVIN
That's not true. Some of us have
great stories... pretty stories
that take place at lakes with
boats and friends and noodle
salad. Just not anybody in this
car. But lots of people -- that's
their story -- good times and
noodle salad... and that's what
makes it hard. Not that you had
it bad but being that pissed that
so many had it good.
CAROL
No.
SIMON
Not it at all, really.
MELVIN
(a veteran's irony)
Not at all, huh?!... Let's go to
the hotel. And if you're lucky
tomorrow Dad will give you another
wad of sweaty money.
Helen and Greg just look at each other in silence. Jack sits back and
shrugs his eyebrows dropping his shades into place. A magic moment. If you
haven't seen it ... do.
And a favorite song.....
Cry Freedom
How can I turn away
Brother, sister go dancing
Through my head
Human as to human
The future is no place
To place your better days
Cry freedom cry
From a crowd ten thousand wide
Hope laid upon hope
That this crowd will not subside
Let this flag burn to dust
And a new, a fair design be raised
While we wait head in hands
Hands in prayer
And fall into a dreamless sleep again
And we wave our hands
Hands and feet are all alike
But gold between divide us
Hands and feet are all alike
But fear between divide us
All slip away
There was a window and by it stood
A mirror in which
He could see himself
He thought of something
Something he had never had but hoped would come along
Cry freedom, cry
From deep inside
Where we are all confined
While we wave hands in fire
Wave our hands
Hands and feet are all alike
But gold between divide us
Hands and feet are all alike
But fear between divide us
All slip away
In this room stood a little child
And in this room this little child
She would remain
Until someone might decide
To dance this little child
Across this hall
Into a cold, dark space
Where she might never trace her way
Across this crooked mile
Across this crooked page
Cry freedom, cry
From deep inside
Where we are all confined
Till we wave our hands
How can I turn away
Brother, sister go dancing
Through my head
Human as to human
The future is no place
To place your better days
Hands and feet are all alike
But gold between divide us
Hands and feet are all alike
But fear between divide us
Hands and feet are all alike
Hear, hear what I say
And we dance away
How can I turn away
Brother, sister go dancing
Through my head
Human as to human
The future is no place
To place your better days
Dave Matthews
I cry like hell sometimes when I think of who we are and how we treat each
other. This song does it big time. Especially the little child verse. We are
all little children. And some of us die in pain. I want only to stop the
cycle here. With the people I am present to. This is where I can make a
difference. Thanks for placing these issues in my face least I forget.
Indeed you are lucky. Me too. Lets always remember.
Thanks again.
--
Peace
Michael H.
"wendi highland" wrote
| But how do you feel about reaching out to help those who are lost in that
| situation. I know I was there and it is a rough circle to escape from. I
| consider myself one of the lucky ones.
| Wendi
damian
wrote:
>Michael H. wrote in message <8i1i70$kbt$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com>...
>
>>I also use the term whore with the deepest sense of affinity and love.
>
>This is rich. I'll bet that asshole, bitch, dickhead and cocksucker are
>terms of endearment for you as well.
Ummm... they are for everyone, aren't they?
wendi highland
Pete wrote:
> I spent the first seventeen months of sobriety in daily proximity with
> prostitues in recovery. I got to hear them work through issues every
> day. The attitude that you carried in that post would have lasted
> about three minutes sitting in an encounter group with them.
Yeh I could see that happening myself, but as far as the word whore it is to me
just a word, and I have become so desensitized to it....Besides I threw out that
subject just wondering what kind of repsonses I would get...
>
>
> Most of those women drank or drugged or both again, over relationship
> issues. The ones that didn't make an effort to maintain their sobriety
> through AA or NA, anyway. The ones that didn't find some basis of
> sisterhood to get them through some rough times that you and I will
> never quite understand unless we've *sexually* tricked ourselves. And
> then only partially. Seeing as how you and I never daily risked the
> ability to be a mother through our professional activities.
This is a sad but true fact..The guilt that lives within women like us is
tremendous...
>
>
> I strongly believe that Wendi graced you with her reply. A good
> number of my rehab sisters would have either told you to piss up a
> rope or tricked you off, so to speak, with some bullshit.
Yeh I could resort to street mentality real easily, but I can't afford to live
like that anymore...
>
>
> Think about something. By posting the views on men who use
> prostitutes you did, what are you implicitly saying about the women
> who satisfy their needs? Yeah, I used the word prurient. On that
> basis. That and what I believe is the very basic lack of respect of
> not asking if it's ok to discuss a potentially sensitive topic, and
> the hell with the (sometimes licentious) posting freedom of araa.
> That's how the tone of your post *felt* to me.
I sensed that implied thing too. But there is a certain amount of prejudice that
comes through in conversations of this sort because it stirs up moral issues. For
the most part people in US would rather sweep this stuff under the perverbial
carpet
>
>
> Hell yeah, Wendi can take care of herself. She's alive. She's sober.
> I'm here to tell you that if she spent some years on the street (and I
> don't mean as a hooker) that she's got a skin like iron when she
> chooses to wear it. Don't mistake respect and affirmation in my post
> for caretaking.
>
> You gonna clean it up? Show me.
Thanks for reminding me of that....I wonder if I have made myself too vulnerable
over the years...But I remember being backed up against a wall once at 1 year
sober...I got scared of what came out....
Michael H.
An enticement; a temptation.
--
Peace
Michael H.
"Craig S." <cspu...@citynet.net> wrote in message
news:3944c...@corp.newsfeeds.com...
| Michael H. wrote in message <8i1i70$kbt$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com>...
|
| >I also use the term whore with the deepest sense of affinity and love.
|
| This is rich. I'll bet that asshole, bitch, dickhead and cocksucker are
| terms of endearment for you as well.
|
|
|
|
| -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
| http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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ernie
ernie
I hope I can learn to live like everyone else..
Most of the time I think that life sucks
I may never learn how to live life
I got a real late start and not sure I can do it
I'll try a day at a time
peace
ernie
AlanS wrote in message <6249ksorf9rhjsic8...@4ax.com>...
>On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 00:00:26 GMT, in alt.recovery.aa, Virtualoso
><virtu...@innocent.com> spewed forth:>>> news:3943f...@corp.newsfeeds.com...
>>>
>>>>It's not in the BB, but you can find a mention of it in "Living Sober"
>>>>in the chapter entitled, 'Steering clear of emotional entanglements' on
>>>>page 61. And it doesn't say a year, it says:
>>>>
>>>>"Over the years, we have become strongly convinced that almost no
>>>>important decisions should be arrived at early in our sobriety, unless
>>>>they cannot possibly be delayed. This caution particularly applies to
>>>>decisions about people, decisions with high emotional potential. The
>>>>first, uncertain weeks of sobriety are no time to rush into major life
>>>>changes."
>>>
>>>Note that there is not mention of any period that could be interpreted as
>>>years there. It says the first few weeks. I reckon that relationships are
a
>>>part of life and the sooner that I can fully integrate myself into life
the
>>>better I'll be able to cope with it later on.
>>
>>I guess that might raise the question about just when you were or
>>weren't "integrated into life", and what, more exactly, changed that.
>
>I'm not fully integrated into life on lifes terms today, but more that
>I was when I first got clean. What's changed, working a few of the
>steps and venturing forth.
wendi highland
"Michael H." wrote: First , true some do. It sounds like you have a nice
resentment going on
> here. Me too maybe.
I have to admit I used to, but not really as much anymore. As a matter of fact a
very special friend of mine used to be one of my tricks. Sometimes we laugh
about the old days. I believe the resentment lies in some of the refusal of
those who have used prostitutes to take a look at those issues. Now granted this
is not my job either, but I hate seeing them talk about the spiritual life, and
you know that could'nt be true.
I had to go make some coffee.....
> Maybe against the men from AA with whom you had sex as a
> prostitute (whore) ;-) while you were out there
I remember when I used to think of this from the perspective of a trick. I mean
really consider the mentality. They drive up a street letting women the do not
know into their car to have their dick sucked. I used to feel sorry for them,
those were the normal ones. But when you consider these guys within the AA
community who still do this behavior I have to wonder....
> <snip> I
> remember specifically knowing someone who was a "member" of AA that I knew
> before I got sober. I thought their actions were quite inconsistent with
> what I thought an AA would do.
This is exactly what i am talking about
> Kind of like missing out on what a particular
> spiritual practice has to offer because of what some of the participants do
> that differs from what they say. I ask because I too see what some people do
> in some parts of life. However I don't feel that I want to ( although I do
> sometimes ) point at what's wrong but rather try to use the program to the
> best of my ability and consistent with what I consider morally just in my
> eyes.
I have a hard time with this too. I tell a friend of mine I feel sexually
retarded because I just don't get the morality of some people. Although it is
not my job to judge, what happens is I start looking at myself. Fine thing for a
hooker to do talk about morality. But when I was out there I could just
desensitize the whole thing. I never believed it was asllright if I did I would
not have the guilt and shame associated with this stuff. But see today I live
this sorta moral attitude. I learned a set of rules in AA, not specifically
geared towards sex, but the principals I learned helped. Where am I going with
this???
> As I've said it's tricky for me because I live in a system of
> judgement and the entire basis of that system is to make myself right and to
> invalidate others.
aaaaaahhhhhhhhh but see you and I would but heads because when people do that to
me, I just figure they are doing their own inventory. I guess it is that iron
skin....I just take care of myself. I can't judge anyone's morality. Yeh I can
see that happening. I just wonder I guess how it is that some can talk this
program of spiritual action, and others live it. I am thankful for this subject
though because it always takes the shame away when I talk about these isues....
> I fight from within it moment to moment. Also I think I
> tend to irritate people when I address issues that they hold so dear to them
> as simply another example of the same thing. All I'm trying to say is that
> there are many many men in AA who choose to use this program wisely. Who do
> not participate in prostitution and who do not advocate it. Those who do are
> not in my eyes even close to knowing what's up.
I think sometimes I can talk close to the heart. This is what my buddy efren
tells me makes people nervous around me. I can talk and not know that it is an
issue. But I just don't have that fear anymore.. This subject I am sure bothers
some people. But I am happy for the opportunity to talk about it. I never do in
meetings.
> I think perhaps I too resent
> them because I resent myself and the actions I've taken. Being a Scorpio and
> compulsive/obsessive I was headed for trouble. Sex is still a "huge" issue
> for me. :-) So to speak.
Baby you aint alone in that department. It is for most people whether we are
alcoholics or not. I chose abstinace for years. Now I am learning more about
myself and others.
> However ... one thing I know for sure. The
> experience of being sober and participating in sex with another person is a
> spiritual experience. Total and complete vulnerability. "Nekkid"
> participation with another. And personally I consider it to be a single
> other who gets everything. No holding back. When I got sober I swore I would
> never have sex alone while with another person. That's my commitment.
This is where i have to say I am lost....I still have miles to go before I can
be where you are. I just view sex as an extension of my feelings for another
person. I do have a relationship now, and it has changed dramatically over the
years. I believe it to be healthy. As healthy as 2 alcoholics can be. But sex
is'nt really an issue. Getting through the day with respect and love for each
other is by far a bigger concern.
>
>
>
>
> Well... a woman after my own heart. We have lived in the same world. This
> line is a wonderful opening for interaction. You see some people don't
> believe that they will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.
> The gift of sobriety you have to offer speaks volumes in a simple truth. And
> in order to know from where you came one really needs to know hopelessness.
> The promise you hold for others as an example is beyond any book. One
> "alcoholic" helping another. Someone who understands.
I used to wonder in early sobriety what the heck I was doing here. After all the
years of just wishing for death I found the answer fro a girl who came in the
rooms a cocaine addict. She said to me one night, these people would be so
suprised if they knew what I did. I took her aside after a meeting and shared
with her that I was'nt. That realistically, no one had to know that she did'nt
tell and she could talk to me anytime. I shared some of my experiences with her.
She has been sober for a while now, and to see her full of hope makes me realize
why I had to travel the road I did. I felt so unique whn I came in the rooms of
AA. I never found women like me who lived my lifestyles, but I found women who I
could relate on other areas of my life. I did'nt care I just wanted to stay
sober. I am grateful for all my memories today, they make me who I am....
>
> Thank you. I agree. I commend you and value your success.
My success is'nt only mine for the actions I put forth. We know where the glory
goes to...
>
>
> |Once again we agree. These guy's who jumped on me here for addressing this
> issue have to check in. I'm really pleased to discuss such matters. I'm sure
> some of the readers here on this NG have the honor of holding the place of
> the men you speak of. Perhaps our conversation and your representation of
> how as a "willing" participant that they seem to use to justify their
> actions, was really degrading to you and simply a "choice" of no choice
> because you needed your dope to take away the pain of being degraded. The
> circle of abuse.
Yeh I understand this. No one likes to talk of these issues. Most for me were
resolved in therapy..You pointed out real well the cirlce of abuse that many
women from the street suffer. Some never leave...I do not hold true to men who
think they are just having sex with consenting adults, because most of these
womena re children. I remember well some of the ways I was treated by these
"men". and some were allright, but there were others that well to put it mildly
were just plain discusting...
>
> Again we agree. Not surprising to me. You have seen it and it can not be
> denied.
> However if you think they were being "intimate" with you or you with them
> then I believe you are missing something here.
>
Intimate with themselves is the words you are looking for. There is an amount of
selfishness that goies on with these situations...But I have to admit, My friend
who was the trick......There is changes that are possible even for the
tricks.....
>
> I don't think he meant your wardrobe people. ;-)
Maybe he did?
>
>
> | Secondly who would she be harming, besides herself, that she would owe an
> | amend?
Myself Alan, myself.....
>
>
> I don't mind if you don't answer.
> This is something that only you can answer.
I must have missed this post, sorry Alan....
>
> I think we might get something out of your point of view.
> Might wake some men here up a little.
> Unless you truly perceive yourself as a victim.
Never a victim, just a woman responsible for my actions.
>
> <snip>
> Prostitution has been around all the time. And as far as " some of the most
> wonderful people" I think that all people are the same. Inherently good. I
> believe that in some it is buried deeper. Perhaps this is just a bit of
> pride and romanticizing where you came from. Don't separate the traits you
> have found in some people by where they are. The same traits are present in
> the people around you. Also I don't believe that the women who work as legal
> whores feel any better inside than the women on the street. Maybe cleaner
> maybe safer maybe they have more material possessions to hide the pain. Just
> a cooler spot in hell and death comes a little later. So what? It's better
> to live with the symbols on the outside but the gap remains? Let's teach
> men and women how to love and interact from wellbeing rather than trying to
> get there and everything will change.
This is true, But I still have a heart for those women I knew that were
suffering the same pains I do.....As far as the high rise bitches (eeeeeeekkkkk)
They are still in pain also, just more denial and more costly drugs....
>
> Maybe like the guy in the BB who stood up in church and admitted his own
> faults you could simply express it from what it was like to be on your side
> of the street. Perhaps a public amends to the "speakers" for your part in
> their activities. You were there right? A few of these direct amends would
> make those arrogant liars think twice if they saw you in a meeting. Get
> creative. But maybe that would fall into the "hurting them or others" area
> huh? Well I guess it depends on if you think that allowing them to live a
> lie is not hurting them. Sometimes a shot hurts but the result is a
> healthier being. Have fun and watch your intention. Is it to heal or hurt?
That is where I just leave sleeping dogs lie. I never could learn anything by
being shamed into it.....
>
>
> I would hope that if I spoke inconsistently with your experience of me you
> would feel free and compelled to point it out to me publicly if necessary.
Oh yes sure I would.....I am irish ya' know..
>
> And I'm sure that as a member of AA in a metropolis where there are men and
> women who can be counted on to know what's sober action and what's not that
> they would be there to support me through it however hard it may seem. I
> know I am human and I will fail. I believe that my failure is an opportunity
> for all of us to learn. Perhaps as you said "I could see the looks now"
> speaks to your own unwillingness to present the truth about yourself.
Some know the truth, but I tell you within meetings I do not think these things
should be shared at a group level...I am not unwilling to share my trutth cept
on a job application....
>
> Remember ... the process you are in could be exactly what someone else needs
> to hear to change their life. Be honest and open-minded and willing.
>
> Finally Wendi. If anyone on this NG can add they will see a deeper truth
> that I speak to. A profound personal relationship to the situation you live.
> I truly appreciate the opportunity for personal introspection afforded me by
> your presence here. It's wild to me that a post on this NG places one's
> views - that are a single entity in a way - at the focal point of many
> different people and often results in many different responses. I've found
> it impossible to keep up and have chosen to limit my responses. What I say
> matters to me. The people here are real people with real stories. I know
> that. I just feel we all have a common humanness we share and hope that I
> can remember that, while remaining consistent with what I consider to be
> relevant issues. It just seems that there is so much more of life now that I
> can't live on this machine.
>
> Thank you again for being a sober example of freedom.
Thank yo so much.
>
>
> --
> Peace
> Michael H.
>
> PS I have a wonderful relationship with a wonderful woman whom I love with
> all my heart. And sex is fucking amazing. Although I filter everything
> through a sexually active libido ( I just can't help that. ) I know that my
> actions matter. As someone implied that I treated you like a trick. First
> off... I would never charge you. ;-) And secondly - primarily - I will never
> solicit sex from you. I heard someone share at a meeting that as a
> prostitute they had met a person who was their AA Eskimo. A man who was
> different. From day one they had never asked for sex. And in fact would
> never accept it when offered. This impressed me greatly as I have been
> consistently lead around by my dick. I won't claim to be that for you. You
> seem to be doing quite well with the support system you have. But I believe
> that a context of no sex allows for something else to happen. That's why
> stags are so valuable - for heterosexual members. ;-)
>
> Damn I wish I could type faster!
> This is allot of work.
>
> | >
> | > Wendi
> | > --
> | > Peace
> | > Michael H.
> | >
> | > "wendi highland" <ghig...@nmsu.edu> wrote in message
> | > news:3940C430...@nmsu.edu...
> | > | Yes, this was what I learned. Not all of the men in AA, but the ones
> that
> | > I
> | > | did meet.
> | > | Wendi
> | > |
> | > | "Michael H." wrote:
> | > |
> | > | > Wait just a minute here....
> | > | > Are you saying that you are a hooker that has had personal
> experience
> | > with
> | > | > AA men who were avoiding relationships? Seriously...that's how I
> read
> | > it.
> | > | >
> | > | > --
> | > | > Peace
> | > | > Michael H.
> | > | >
> | > | > "wendi highland" <ghig...@nmsu.edu> wrote in message
> | > | > news:393F1C20...@nmsu.edu...
> | > | > |
> | > | > |
> | > | > | Steve N wrote:
> | > | > |
> | > | > | > Or perhaps he was thinking of hookers?
> | > | > | >
> | > | > |
> | > | > | Speaking from my own personal experience a good percentage of men
> in
> | > AA
> | > | > use
> | > | > | hookers to avoid relationships.
> | > | > | Wendi
> | > | > |
> | > |
> |
Michael H.
I answered your questions that Wendi so conveniently snipped.
I was really looking forward to her response.
That snippage was a huge statement in itself.
So look again.
It goes like this. And this is a hard one.
I put myself in the situation and chose to interact with another person from
a point of view of dishonesty in order to get what I wanted. Thus I allowed
a "relationship" with another person to be short of what they and I really
seek and did so for my own personal gain. True I hurt myself. That does not
justify that I also hurt another. I have amends to us both.
Dishonesty.
You can't see it?
I can't help you with that.
This is my point of view.
You are entitled to yours.
--
Peace
Michael H.
"AlanS" wrote|
| "Michael H." wrote
|
| <snip>
|
| > Alan S asked couple of questions maybe you can answer.
| >
| > "AlanS" wrote
| >>Dude when you say 'principles in all our affairs' which principle are
| >>you inplying that she would be breaking by selling herself, if that is
| >>the case(and I mean her not her costumers)?
| >
| >I don't think he meant your wardrobe people. ;-)
|
| I wasn't asking her, I was asking her. You suggested she wasn't practising
| 'principles in all our affairs' So I ask you again, which priciple would
she
| not be practising?
|
| >> Secondly who would she be harming, besides herself, that she
| >>would owe an amend?
| >
| >I don't mind if you don't answer.
| >This is something that only you can answer.
|
| Again I asked you. You were the one who suggested amends were owed. If you
| are going to be righteous and suggest amends are owed, you might as well
say
| who would be harmed and in what way they were harmed.
|
| >I think we might get something out of your point of view.
| >Might wake some men here up a little.
| >Unless you truly perceive yourself as a victim.
| >I'll give you my personal response in a similar situation.
| >You know ... my part.
| >
| >It goes like this. And this is a hard one.
| >I put myself in the situation and chose to interact with another person
| >from a point of view of dishonesty in order to get what I wanted.
| >Thus I allowed a "relationship" with another person to be short of
| >what they and I really seek and did so for my own personal gain.
| >True I hurt myself. That does not justify that I also hurt another. I
| >have amends to us both.
|
| Dishonesty?
|
Michael H.
But you know what.
Each moment of now is a new choice.
We all have the situation now.
We all have the solution now.
And that's all we got.
Either life is the way I want it to be or it is not.
This is the problem...not life.
Rather - My perception.
By accepting a higher powers will for me I let go of my desire to have it be
some other way then it is right now. This happens now and now and now and
now over and over and over again. Get used to it. ;-) But get good at the
process of surrender. It is where we find peace.
--
Peace
Michael H.
"ernie" <FANUSI...@intergrafix.net> wrote in message
news:sk9vf0s...@corp.supernews.com...
Craig S.
news:8i2ov...@news1.newsguy.com...
> >
> >>I also use the term whore with the deepest sense of affinity and love.
> >
> >This is rich. I'll bet that asshole, bitch, dickhead and cocksucker are
> >terms of endearment for you as well.
>
Especially for the ex it seems.
Michael H.
But as far as terms of endearment... just perhaps there is another way of
being that you can't see. Quickly. Imagine this. NY ( first lesson )
adolescents getting high/drunk. Playing the dozens. Got a clue? Doggin'
hard. Dissin' strong. Laughin' deep. We recorded hours on end of "mother
jokes" . To this day my best friends and I revel in the mystery of slang.
Not everyone can play - some just can't see it. I forget. There are rules
of engagement and understandings in the game. See also Snaps. Tell me you
just forgot.
--
Peace
Michael H.
"Craig S." <cspu...@mtneer.net> wrote in message
news:sW815.671$PZ5....@nntp3.onemain.com...
Craig S.
> You can add.
>
> But as far as terms of endearment... just perhaps there is another way of
> being that you can't see. Quickly. Imagine this. NY ( first lesson )
> adolescents getting high/drunk. Playing the dozens. Got a clue? Doggin'
> hard. Dissin' strong. Laughin' deep. We recorded hours on end of "mother
> jokes" . To this day my best friends and I revel in the mystery of slang.
> Not everyone can play - some just can't see it. I forget. There are
rules
> of engagement and understandings in the game. See also Snaps. Tell me you
> just forgot.
Funny you should mention this, Michael. Here is an excerpt from a post of a
couple months ago where I was attempting to explain this very thing to
someone from another country. I believe that I understand what you are
talking about very well.
"And, being from a different
culture, there is a subtlety of American insults that you fail to grasp. A
friend and I can work side by side all day and trade insults and badger each
other and attempt to humiliate each other and be belligerent to each other
and call each other names and cast aspersions on each others abilities and
intelligence and do you know what? It doesn't mean a thing. Deep in our
hearts we love and respect each other. It is a form of playfulness. It is
especially fun with either of my brothers. Mutual respect abounds, but so
does good natured teasing, even if it might not sound good natured to a
casual listener."
So what do you think, Michael? Same idea, huh?
Craig
wendi highland
"Michael H." wrote:
> Well AlanS.
> I answered your questions that Wendi so conveniently snipped.
Sorry I obviously missed the point....
>
>
> I was really looking forward to her response.
> That snippage was a huge statement in itself.
>
Statement?
>
> So look again.
>
> It goes like this. And this is a hard one.
> I put myself in the situation and chose to interact with another person from
> a point of view of dishonesty in order to get what I wanted. Thus I allowed
> a "relationship" with another person to be short of what they and I really
> seek and did so for my own personal gain. True I hurt myself. That does not
> justify that I also hurt another. I have amends to us both.
Yes if you are being selfish then you do owe an amends I think....
>
>
> Dishonesty.
> You can't see it?
> I can't help you with that.
>
> This is my point of view.
> You are entitled to yours.
>
> --
> Peace
> Michael H.
>
> "AlanS" wrote|
> | "Michael H." wrote
> |
> | <snip>
> |
> | > Alan S asked couple of questions maybe you can answer.
> | >
> | > "AlanS" wrote
> | >>Dude when you say 'principles in all our affairs' which principle are
> | >>you inplying that she would be breaking by selling herself, if that is
> | >>the case(and I mean her not her costumers)?
I do not do that now but I take care of myself now that is the best amends I can
make...
>
> | >
> | >I don't think he meant your wardrobe people. ;-)
>
> |
> | I wasn't asking her, I was asking her.
What is meant by this?????
> You suggested she wasn't practising
> | 'principles in all our affairs' So I ask you again, which priciple would
> she
> | not be practising?
To thine own self be true....
>
> |
> | >> Secondly who would she be harming, besides herself, that she
> | >>would owe an amend?
What about the wife of the trick?????
>
> | >
> | >I don't mind if you don't answer.
> | >This is something that only you can answer.
> |
> | Again I asked you. You were the one who suggested amends were owed. If you
> | are going to be righteous and suggest amends are owed, you might as well
> say
> | who would be harmed and in what way they were harmed.
> |
> | >I think we might get something out of your point of view.
> | >Might wake some men here up a little.
> | >Unless you truly perceive yourself as a victim.
Nah never a victim willing participant
>
> | >I'll give you my personal response in a similar situation.
> | >You know ... my part.
> | >
> | >It goes like this. And this is a hard one.
> | >I put myself in the situation and chose to interact with another person
> | >from a point of view of dishonesty in order to get what I wanted.
> | >Thus I allowed a "relationship" with another person to be short of
> | >what they and I really seek and did so for my own personal gain.
> | >True I hurt myself. That does not justify that I also hurt another. I
> | >have amends to us both.
> |
> | Dishonesty?
> |
Michael H.
--
Peace
Michael H.
"wendi highland" <ghig...@nmsu.edu> wrote in message
news:3944F191...@nmsu.edu...
Michael H.
Also I did refer to her experience as a whore. Past tense.
----
Peace
Michael H.
"Craig S." <cspu...@mtneer.net> wrote in message
news:IPb15.2402$PZ5....@nntp3.onemain.com...
Craig S.
> So...why the defensive posture about the word whore?
"It doesn't mean a thing. Deep in our hearts we love and respect each
other. It is a form of playfulness."
Try not to confuse defensiveness with shit stirring.
Craig SSE (Just using a little something from my bag of cheap tricks)
Kimba
<FANUSI...@intergrafix.net> wrote:
>Learning how to live in this life is hard for me...
>I hope I can learn to live like everyone else..
>Most of the time I think that life sucks
>I may never learn how to live life
>I got a real late start and not sure I can do it
>I'll try a day at a time
I'll tell you a secret. Learning how to live this life is hard for
everyone. Most of us muddle through, getting the gold ring every now
and then. I think the secret is in your last line.
Hugs,
Kimba
--If the night has been too lonely
And the road has been too long
And you think that love is only
For the lucky and the strong -
It's not :)
Kim and Rene 5/12/00
Reese
<FANUSI...@intergrafix.net> wrote:
>Learning how to live in this life is hard for me...
Maybe. I don't know. I know it's a lot easier than drinking.
>I hope I can learn to live like everyone else..
If you look around, dude, you see there ain't too many people who're
doing such a great job.
>Most of the time I think that life sucks
>I may never learn how to live life
>I got a real late start and not sure I can do it
Sure, you can do it--if you work the Steps. If you don't work the
Steps, I don't know how you might do. You still might do real good
and be posting pictures of your living room on usenet groups, like
GaryE, but I don't know.
>I'll try a day at a time.
That's the only way you can do it.
Reese
herewegoagain
"Lyndi" <ly...@att.net> wrote in message news:39439D8B...@att.net...
>
>
> herewegoagain wrote:
>
> > make no mistake, I have insulted my share of women and probably will
again.
> > and I don't agree with everything you post, but for the life of me I
have
> > seen no reason for you to be attacked by reese as you have been or any
> > reason to call you a whore.
> >
> > don't paint me as being chivalrous, I'm still learning that one.
> >
> > Derek
>
> Ah but Grasshopper, your lessons must be going well. The timbre of your
posts
> is markedly different than back in the olden days.
I have my days.
Derek
herewegoagain
> Ya' know this whole post just reeks of resentment.
> Sorry if I insulted you or who you consider yourself to be.
> I sent my response to Wendi before I even saw this.
> Oh ye of little faith.
> Hang in there man ...
> This too shall pass. I hope!
>
>
> --
> Peace
> Michael H.
why are you using the line "ye of little faith"?
Derek
>
> "Pete" <pete...@qis.net> wrote in message
> news:39447817....@news.qis.net...
> | I spent the first seventeen months of sobriety in daily proximity with
> | prostitues in recovery. I got to hear them work through issues every
> | day. The attitude that you carried in that post would have lasted
> | about three minutes sitting in an encounter group with them.
> |
> | Most of those women drank or drugged or both again, over relationship
> | issues. The ones that didn't make an effort to maintain their sobriety
> | through AA or NA, anyway. The ones that didn't find some basis of
> | sisterhood to get them through some rough times that you and I will
> | never quite understand unless we've *sexually* tricked ourselves. And
> | then only partially. Seeing as how you and I never daily risked the
> | ability to be a mother through our professional activities.
> |
> | I strongly believe that Wendi graced you with her reply. A good
> | number of my rehab sisters would have either told you to piss up a
> | rope or tricked you off, so to speak, with some bullshit.
> |
> | Think about something. By posting the views on men who use
> | prostitutes you did, what are you implicitly saying about the women
> | who satisfy their needs? Yeah, I used the word prurient. On that
> | basis. That and what I believe is the very basic lack of respect of
> | not asking if it's ok to discuss a potentially sensitive topic, and
> | the hell with the (sometimes licentious) posting freedom of araa.
> | That's how the tone of your post *felt* to me.
> |
> | Hell yeah, Wendi can take care of herself. She's alive. She's sober.
> | I'm here to tell you that if she spent some years on the street (and I
> | don't mean as a hooker) that she's got a skin like iron when she
> | chooses to wear it. Don't mistake respect and affirmation in my post
> | for caretaking.
> |
> | You gonna clean it up? Show me.
> |
> | On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 19:34:09 -0700, "Michael H."
> | <prml...@primenet.com> wrote:
> |
> | >God Pete ...prurient?
> | >That's what whores, do at least of the type we were discussing. They
have
> | >sex. That was the topic.The topic was about sex and AA. I related to
both
> | >and commented. I think some reactions were rather prudish... not
Wendies
> | >though.
> | >You see as she said she's been called worse. Me too. It's interesting
how
> | >some guy's jump to the "poor girls" aid as if she can't do it herself.
> She
> | >did OK and I'll answer her later tonight. She seems to be up to the
> | >challenge. That for me here is to represent myself truthfully with the
> | >intention of growing together in the principals of AA so as to become
> better
> | >people in all of our interactions and opportunities to "act into" in
> life.
> | >This is what matters. How we live. Here and in "real life". I gave a
> quick
> | >scan of her reply and she seems to agree pretty much.
> | >I also use the term whore with the deepest sense of affinity and love.
Michael H.
None intended.
--
Peace
Michael H.
"wendi highland" <ghig...@nmsu.edu> wrote in message
news:39452949...@nmsu.edu...
| If I may intergect.....whore=prostitute, there was no offense taken...
| Wendi
|
| "Michael H." wrote:
|
| > So...why the defensive posture about the word whore?
| > Also I did refer to her experience as a whore. Past tense.
| >
| > ----
| > Peace
| > Michael H.
| >
| > "Craig S." <cspu...@mtneer.net> wrote in message
| > news:IPb15.2402$PZ5....@nntp3.onemain.com...
| > | Michael H. <prml...@primenet.com> wrote in message
| > | intelligence and do you know what? It doesn't mean a thing. Deep in
our
| > | hearts we love and respect each other. It is a form of playfulness.
Michael H.
I'm recovering from my latest lesson.
I'll get back to you,
After I lick my wounds! ;-)
This sig line is quite apt.
--
Peace
Michael H.
"If our measurements and readings are an illusion also,
one could find oneself materialized inside solid rock."
Spock - The Cage
Once again...It's dark in here!
"wendi highland" <ghig...@nmsu.edu> wrote in message
news:394528FA...@nmsu.edu...
| Slippery?
|
| "Michael H." wrote:
|
| > You are slippery! ;-)
| >
| > --
| > Peace
| > Michael H.
| >
| > "wendi highland" <ghig...@nmsu.edu> wrote in message
Michael H.
You dog. ;-) ( I'm being polite... )
Caught me completely unaware.
Thought you were fully serious man.
Damn...I've so much to learn.
It did give me a chance to restate my position.
I guess you were just checkin on me huh?
What a dumb ass I am sometimes.
Way too serious I guess.
Sometimes I'm just expecting to get nailed here.
Consider me schooled in one of the finer points of usenet.
Well done.. you ... you ... you ....
Never mind.
What I'll do with it ... we'll see.
--
Peace
Michael H.
Smiling faces sometimes ......
The Undisputed Truth
"Craig S." <cspu...@mtneer.net> wrote in message
news:GJd15.2124$qp.3...@nntp1.onemain.com...
| Michael H. <prml...@primenet.com> wrote in message
| news:8i3mlf$534$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com...
|
| > So...why the defensive posture about the word whore?
|
| "It doesn't mean a thing. Deep in our hearts we love and respect each
| other. It is a form of playfulness."
|