Chines Wall visible from orbit ?
uwe.st...@online.de
I am new to the list,
so excuse me if this question is already discussed.
Is it possible to get a view or better a photo
of the chinese wall ?
I got a book called "Orbit"
where an astronaut of a space shuttle flight resumed
that they could not get a view of the wall while their
flight - 300 to 580 km distance to earth -
although it is sayed that the wall could be seen
from the moon !
I tried to get pictures over the web without success
so if one of you has another information or better
a photo of the chinese wall from the orbit
please let me know:
uwe.st...@online.de
Greetings from Germany
Uwe Stuecker
Greg Moore (Strider)
>
> Hello newsreaders,
> I am new to the list,
> so excuse me if this question is already discussed.
> Is it possible to get a view or better a photo
> of the chinese wall ?
Probably, though not sure where. You might try the
www.terraserver.com.
> I got a book called "Orbit"
> where an astronaut of a space shuttle flight resumed
> that they could not get a view of the wall while their
> flight - 300 to 580 km distance to earth -
> although it is sayed that the wall could be seen
> from the moon !
That statement unfortunately is not true. You can't see the Great Wall
from the moon. In fact astronauts report that you can barely make out
continental size items (like continents, are the largest deserts.)
Seeing the Great Wall from orbit is tough because while it is long,
it's very narrow.
I've heard that it's often seen because it's much sandier on one side
than the other. So they aren't seeing the wall itself, but rather the
difference in environment.
From orbit astronauts have picked out wakes from ships, the border of
Israel and Egypt (one is cultivated and green, the other side is used
for sheep grazing), and other man-made phenomenon.
BTW, and I haven't found it since, but the earliest reference I ever
saw to seeing the Great Wall of China from either the moon or space
(can't remember which it said) was in a book published in 1929. So
obviously the author was speculating.
> I tried to get pictures over the web without success
> so if one of you has another information or better
> a photo of the chinese wall from the orbit
> please let me know:
> uwe.st...@online.de
> Greetings from Germany
> Uwe Stuecker
--
Greg D. Moore President moo...@greenms.com
Green Mountain Software http://www.greenms.com/
518-283-4083 MCSE
Henry Spencer
<uwe.st...@online.de> wrote:
>...although it is sayed that the wall could be seen from the moon !
That is a myth. The people who say it are simply wrong.
The Great Wall is quite low, it is mostly made of local stone that does
not contrast well with the surroundings, and it is mostly in ruins.
Seeing it even from low orbit is difficult.
--
The good old days | Henry Spencer he...@spsystems.net
weren't. | (aka he...@zoo.toronto.edu)
~{UT@ojE~}Chiew Lee Yih
>Hello newsreaders,
>I am new to the list,
>so excuse me if this question is already discussed.
>Is it possible to get a view or better a photo
>of the chinese wall ?
>I got a book called "Orbit"
>where an astronaut of a space shuttle flight resumed
>that they could not get a view of the wall while their
>flight - 300 to 580 km distance to earth -
>although it is sayed that the wall could be seen
>from the moon !
Earth is only the size of the thumb on an frontward extended hand
(with glove?) when view from the moon/moon orbit.
How can you see a wall in such a small arc with bare eyes?
PJNeal4176
>(with glove?) when view from the moon/moon orbit.
>
>How can you see a wall in such a small arc with bare eyes?
First off, I agree completely that you can't see The Wall from the moon. That
is just a bit too far. But from what I have heard from astronauts, you can see
things that are much smaller than the Wall form orbit; including even ships in
the seas.
P.J.
Malice
(~{UT@ojE~}Chiew Lee Yih) wrote:
>On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:37:59 GMT, uwe.st...@online.de wrote:
>
>>Hello newsreaders,
>>I am new to the list,
>>so excuse me if this question is already discussed.
>>Is it possible to get a view or better a photo
>>of the chinese wall ?
>>I got a book called "Orbit"
>>where an astronaut of a space shuttle flight resumed
>>that they could not get a view of the wall while their
>>flight - 300 to 580 km distance to earth -
>>although it is sayed that the wall could be seen
>>from the moon !
>
The Chinese will post pictures when their advanced scientist land them
on the moon or they infiltrate NASA :-) Oh wait , they cant even
reach Taiwan !!
Ali Hammoud
moon. That
> is just a bit too far. But from what I have heard from astronauts,
you can see
> things that are much smaller than the Wall form orbit; including
even ships in
> the seas.
I think you may only see the wake of the ships..It is the same for
airplanes: you can find them if you see their contrails.
Ali Hammoud
a...@hammoud.net
http://ssmu.mcgill.ca/flying/
----------------------------------------------------------------
~{UT@ojE~}Chiew Lee Yih
>On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:35:44 GMT, hancult...@att.net
>(~{UT@ojE~}Chiew Lee Yih) wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:37:59 GMT, uwe.st...@online.de wrote:
>>
>>>Hello newsreaders,
>>>I am new to the list,
>>>so excuse me if this question is already discussed.
>>>Is it possible to get a view or better a photo
>>>of the chinese wall ?
>>>I got a book called "Orbit"
>>>where an astronaut of a space shuttle flight resumed
>>>that they could not get a view of the wall while their
>>>flight - 300 to 580 km distance to earth -
>>>although it is sayed that the wall could be seen
>>>from the moon !
>>
>The Chinese will post pictures when their advanced scientist land them
>on the moon or they infiltrate NASA :-) Oh wait , they cant even
What is " :-) " mean here?
Once I thought the people who love space are open minded one, but the
more I paid attention to these newsgroups below, the more I doubt
about it.
news:sci.space.history
news:sci.space.news
news:sci.space.policy
news:sci.space.shuttle
news:sci.space.station
news:sci.space.tech
It is only the matter of time before another Lee WenHo is "caught" is
NASA, NASA scientists of Chinese descend, beware!
Jorge R. Frank
>
> > First off, I agree completely that you can't see The Wall from the
> moon. That
> > is just a bit too far. But from what I have heard from astronauts,
> you can see
> > things that are much smaller than the Wall form orbit; including
> even ships in
> > the seas.
>
> I think you may only see the wake of the ships..It is the same for
> airplanes: you can find them if you see their contrails.
Highways are also easily visible; they are generally much wider than the
Great Wall, and don't blend in as well with the surrounding terrain.
--
JRF
Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" and think one step ahead of IBM.
Jorge R. Frank
>
> On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:59:47 GMT, anti...@usa.com (Malice) wrote:
>
> >The Chinese will post pictures when their advanced scientist land them
> >on the moon or they infiltrate NASA :-) Oh wait , they cant even
>
> What is " :-) " mean here?
It's called an emoticon, or a "smiley." Turn your head to the left to
see the smile. It means the person was making a joke, or was saying
something not intended to be serious.
> Once I thought the people who love space are open minded one, but the
> more I paid attention to these newsgroups below, the more I doubt
> about it.
How are you so sure the culprit came from sci.space.*? Take a look at
the Newsgroups: header. This message is crossposted to several groups
outside of sci.space.*, including soc.culture.* and alt.conspiracy. You
yourself are responsible for this, since your first reply, a few
messages back, crossposted the original question from sci.space.shuttle
to soc.culture.china. "Malice" then crossposted his reply to the other
groups. Since "Malice" has never posted to sci.space.shuttle before,
but has posted hundreds of messages on soc.culture.china (according to
deja.com), I assume you brought him in with you from soc.culture.china
when you crossposted your reply.
Next time, don't crosspost your reply. Generally, the regulars on
sci.space.* are pretty open-minded, but we do not respond well to
slander.
Brian Lawrence
the July 1989 issue of Spaceflight magazine.
Here are some quotes about viewing the GWoC from orbit and/or
the Moon:
"It is not visible from lunar distance" Neil Armstrong
"You have a hard time even seeing continents" Buzz Aldrin
"(The idea that you can) spot the Great Wall..... with the naked
eye from the vicinity of the Moon is absurd!" James Lovell
"The Great Wall of China is most definitely not visible to the
unaided human eye at lunar distances.... From the Moon the
Earth appears less than the size of a golf ball held at arm's
length: the blue-green of the oceans and the bright white of
cloud systems predominate and frequently it is difficult to
distinguish continents let alone a discrete man-made object
like the Great Wall." Alan Bean
"(The Great Wall is not visible.) Only desert areas and desert or
non-green coast lines are clearly defined to the eye from the
Moon." 'Jack' Schmitt
From Skylab, Bill Pogue reported being able to see it, but only
with binoculars, Al Bean looked but never saw it, Karl Henize
tried and failed on STS-51F - at shuttle speeds it is only "in
view" for about 40 seconds.
It has been said that the Hubble ST can only resolve objects
100 meters wide on the Moon, so it couldn't "see" the Wall if
it was at the Moon's distance either.
There are documents dating from 1909 and 1923 that claim
it would be visible from the Moon.
There is an image from the Landsat satellite which fails to
show the Wall, but in which you can determine where it is
because of the contrast from one side to the other caused
by sand piling up on the windward side. This is frame
E 30583-02521, exposed October 9, 1979.
--
Brian Lawrence, F.B.I.S.
Brian_W_...@msn.com
Wantage, Oxfordshire, UK
Tom Abbott
(~{UT@ojE~}Chiew Lee Yih) wrote:
>On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:59:47 GMT, anti...@usa.com (Malice) wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:35:44 GMT, hancult...@att.net
>>(~{UT@ojE~}Chiew Lee Yih) wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:37:59 GMT, uwe.st...@online.de wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hello newsreaders,
>>>>I am new to the list,
>>>>so excuse me if this question is already discussed.
>>>>Is it possible to get a view or better a photo
>>>>of the chinese wall ?
>>>>I got a book called "Orbit"
>>>>where an astronaut of a space shuttle flight resumed
>>>>that they could not get a view of the wall while their
>>>>flight - 300 to 580 km distance to earth -
>>>>although it is sayed that the wall could be seen
>>>>from the moon !
>>>
>>The Chinese will post pictures when their advanced scientist land them
>>on the moon or they infiltrate NASA :-) Oh wait , they cant even
>
>What is " :-) " mean here?
>
>Once I thought the people who love space are open minded one, but the
>more I paid attention to these newsgroups below, the more I doubt
>about it.
>news:sci.space.history
>news:sci.space.news
>news:sci.space.policy
>news:sci.space.shuttle
>news:sci.space.station
>news:sci.space.tech
>
>It is only the matter of time before another Lee WenHo is "caught" is
>NASA, NASA scientists of Chinese descend, beware!
NASA administrator Dan Goldin will need a new job in about 18
months, maybe China could use his services. He and Bill could share a
room.
TA
peccavi
Or a cell...
Peccavi
~{UT@ojE~}Chiew Lee Yih
Dave Michelson
Neat, but these are *radar* images. Returns from the side of the wall
facing the radar are significantly enhanced by dihedral backscatter,
hence the wall is much brighter than its surroundings in these images.
Human beings will see things quite a bit differently in visible light!
-- -o)
Dave Michelson /\\
dmich...@ieee.org _\_v
Patrick Patriarca
Tom Abbott <tab...@intellex.com> wrote in message
news:37c551a9...@news.supernews.com...
> On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:30:04 GMT, hancult...@att.net
> (~{UT@ojE~}Chiew Lee Yih) wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:59:47 GMT, anti...@usa.com (Malice) wrote:
> >
> >>On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:35:44 GMT, hancult...@att.net
> >>(~{UT@ojE~}Chiew Lee Yih) wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:37:59 GMT, uwe.st...@online.de wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Hello newsreaders,
> >>>>I am new to the list,
> >>>>so excuse me if this question is already discussed.
> >>>>Is it possible to get a view or better a photo
> >>>>of the chinese wall ?
> >>>>I got a book called "Orbit"
> >>>>where an astronaut of a space shuttle flight resumed
> >>>>that they could not get a view of the wall while their
> >>>>flight - 300 to 580 km distance to earth -
> >>>>although it is sayed that the wall could be seen
> >>>>from the moon !
> >>>
> >>The Chinese will post pictures when their advanced scientist land them
> >>on the moon or they infiltrate NASA :-) Oh wait , they cant even
> >
> >What is " :-) " mean here?
> >
> >Once I thought the people who love space are open minded one, but the
> >more I paid attention to these newsgroups below, the more I doubt
> >about it
This is to Chew... YOU are the one who has been making constant anti-USA ,
anti-west, anti-american remarks ever since you showed up here. You
apparently can dish it out but cannot take it. A typical tyrant. After such
behavior even when people such as myself reached out to you you continued
your diatribe. And NOW you complain. Grow up. When you throw stones expect
them to rebound. If you truely want a dialogue try simply discussing rather
than making typical BAFfer (Blame America First) remarks. It never ceases to
amze me how it is virtually an international (and even a USA) sport to put
down to the USA but when we respond or counter WE are suddenly racist. What
hypocrisy.
Patrick Patriarca
Jorge R. Frank <jrf...@ibm-pc.org> wrote in message
news:37BB6BFD...@ibm-pc.org...
> "~{UT@ojE~}Chiew Lee Yih" wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:59:47 GMT, anti...@usa.com (Malice) wrote:
> >
> > >The Chinese will post pictures when their advanced scientist land them
> > >on the moon or they infiltrate NASA :-) Oh wait , they cant even
> >
> > What is " :-) " mean here?
>
> see the smile. It means the person was making a joke, or was saying
> something not intended to be serious.
>
> > more I paid attention to these newsgroups below, the more I doubt
>
> How are you so sure the culprit came from sci.space.*? Take a look at
> the Newsgroups: header. This message is crossposted to several groups
> outside of sci.space.*, including soc.culture.* and alt.conspiracy. You
> yourself are responsible for this, since your first reply, a few
> messages back, crossposted the original question from sci.space.shuttle
> to soc.culture.china. "Malice" then crossposted his reply to the other
> groups. Since "Malice" has never posted to sci.space.shuttle before,
> but has posted hundreds of messages on soc.culture.china (according to
> deja.com), I assume you brought him in with you from soc.culture.china
> when you crossposted your reply.
>
> Next time, don't crosspost your reply. Generally, the regulars on
> sci.space.* are pretty open-minded, but we do not respond well to
> slander.
Mr Chiew...ever since showing up on these NG's has made it his business to
cut down, denigrate and constantly make snide remarks on how the USA will
not last. THEN when someone responds or even questions allegations (and
that's all they are right now) of chinese and/or chinese american spying he
cries foul. I have tried to be inclusive, engage him in cross cultural
discussions and understanding but what I received was more diatribe and
sarcasm.
Patrick Patriarca
Dave Michelson <dmich...@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:37BBADB0...@ieee.org...
Basically the term "can the Great Wall be seen from space" refers to seeing
it with the human eye, unaided. It cannot be. However, wide highways
(thruways, autobans) in the west can be seen due to their great width and
generally higher contrast from the surrounding area of the material used to
make the roads. The Great WAll is too narrow and made of the same general
stone as the surrounding area so there is little or no contrast.
Michael R. Grabois ... change $ to s
letters that were posted on the NASA Shuttle-Mir web site, describing his stay
aboard Mir. In one of them, he mentions what he can see from space that would
indicate human presence, and specifically discusses the Great Wall.
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/history/shuttle-mir/ops/crew/letters/thomas/letter5.html
>Evidence of human habitation is visible from low Earth orbit. Cities can be
>seen, although, surprisingly, they do not stand out readily. But we can make
>out their grid-like patterns of streets. In remote areas, certain roads and
>railway lines can be seen as faint lines across the Earth, such as the road
>through the rain forests of Brazil, and the long straight railway line crossing
>south western Australia, but generally these are too small to make out clearly.
>The fencing off of farm land into individual fields can also be made out,
>particularly in the Midwest of the U.S. and Canada. There is even one area in
>South America where they alternate their growing cycles on adjacent fields,
>giving rise to a very obvious checkerboard pattern. Of course, national
>boundaries do not stand out by themselves as on a map, but some national
>boundaries can be seen where there are different land usage policies in effect
>on each side of a border, giving rise to different surface texture or color. In
>this way the southern border of Israel can be made out, as can part of the
>division between the U.S. and Canada. The stories about the Great Wall of China
>being visible form space may be true, but I have yet to see it.
--
Michael R. Grabois | http://chili.cjb.net
Houston, TX | $pac...@wt.net (change $ to "s")
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Some people call me Maurice, 'cause I speak of the Pompatus of Love."
Jens Lerch
>"Brian Lawrence" <Brian_W_...@nospam.msn.com> wrote:
>> It has been said that the Hubble ST can only resolve objects
>>100 meters wide on the Moon, so it couldn't "see" the Wall if
>>it was at the Moon's distance either.
>? Wouldn't that have to be "several meters" rather than 100 meters?
The resolution at visible wavelengths of an 8 feet diameter telescope
at 400,000 km is about 100 meters.
If you turn the Hubble around and take pictures of the 1000 times
closer Earth you would get a resolution of 10 centimeters (neglecting
atmospheric turbulences), that's about the rumoured resolution of the
Hubble-style Keyhole spysats.
--
Jens Lerch
===========================================
New at http://jens.lerch.home.pages.de/
sci.space.humor, the Light Side of Space
How to Build a Functional Roton Paper Model
Brian Lawrence
> On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:22:39 +0100, "Brian Lawrence"
> <Brian_W_...@nospam.msn.com> wrote:
>
> > It has been said that the Hubble ST can only resolve objects
> >100 meters wide on the Moon, so it couldn't "see" the Wall if
> >it was at the Moon's distance either.
>
> ? Wouldn't that have to be "several meters" rather than 100 meters?
Yes, but quote is from article written over 10 years ago, before
HST was launched.