QURAN is not word of GOD
The FRIENDLY netter
The topic of the thread is true. Quran is not word of God. Forget
its being the word of God, it is not even words of a sane person. It is
full fo contradiction, it lacks cohesion and and betrays the divine
nature of the Universe. Mohammad was an imposter.
This topic has been discussed millions of time on this net, still if
someone is there who joined later, or has some specific doubt, I will
try my best to explain him the truth.
I am forgetting the name of the person who said, " Muslims are the
fist victime of Islam, and it is duty of humanity to same muslims from
it."
Regards,
TFN
In <01bc075e$998ce800$1baf...@singnet.singnet.com.sg> "AZAM ALI"
<ali...@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> writes:
>
>
>
>Sher-ni <vgs...@interlog.com> wrote in article
><32E28A...@interlog.com>...
>> > the Quran is not the word of God.
>>
>>
>> WELL SAID MO!!
>> --
>>
>GO TO HELL WITH YOUR NON SENSE
Shan
that a Muslim or any human should be saved from? I hope you are not
confusing Islam with what ever you see and hear on media.
1. first of all its not a cult,
2. No one has been forced to follow it.
3. What ever you see in Quraan, its only for human benefit.
4. And what ever is forbidden its only because harm the human
themselves. Think about it and I am sure you will be convinced too.
N. K. Agrawal
Baburam imposting as The FRIENDLY netter wrote:
>
> The topic of the thread is true. Quran is not word of God. Forget
> its being the word of God, it is not even words of a sane person. It is
> full fo contradiction, it lacks cohesion and and betrays the divine
> nature of the Universe. Mohammad was an imposter.
>
> This topic has been discussed millions of time on this net, still if
> someone is there who joined later, or has some specific doubt, I will
> try my best to explain him the truth.
>
> I am forgetting the name of the person who said, " Muslims are the
> fist victime of Islam, and it is duty of humanity to same muslims from
> it."
Baburamji,
When are you going to learn that "degrading other religion" and "mine is
better than yours" is not what Hinduism teaches if you claim to be a
Hindu.
There is probably no religios book in the world where one can't find a
few contradictions. Quran is no exception. It also contains a lot of
good texts like other religious books. Present generation of Muslims may
not accept but it is quite possible that a few distortions occured in
the original text over the period of past 1400 years.
How does it matter whether Quran is a word of God or not? It really
depends upon what people believe. Also, mindless & fanatics like you
wouldn't get a chance to attack if Muslims start trusting spirit of
Quran more than the Mullah's interpretation.
Narendra
Salim Ahmed
If you are really interested in reading a neutral, unbiased and scientific
inquiry into the authenticity of the Quran, I refer you to "The Bible,
The Quran and Science" by Maurice Bucaille. The bottom line is that
there isn't a single fact mentioned in the Quran that contradicts what
we know to be true in science. Unlike other texts that have been changed
for political or other well intentioned reasons, the Quran has been
transcribed verbatim. Having read a lot of scriptures from other "human"
sources, I am struck by the simplicity and timelessness of the verses
in Quran, particularly the absense of elaborate imagery or dense
philosophical concepts that can only be understood by theologians.
There are too many examples to give about facts revealed that are
only now being confirmed by science. Just to give one example,
there is a verse that explains how the universe is expanding.
The relativity of time is something we take for granted now but
how is it possible for a man without divine inspiration to talk about
something so modern in the seventh century. While confirming the
other texts that came before it like the Torah and the Bible,
corrections were made in regards to some facts that had become
distorted as a result of human interpretation.
I don't see any specific contradictions mentioned here so maybe the
the original poster hasn't actually read it himself but simply
passing along opinions he has heard elsewhere. Anyway if you are
faced with a contradiction, try examining your premises; one of
them may be wrong. I don't think there is anything wrong in approaching
a subject as a skeptic as long as one is willing to do the work of
reading from the original sources and forming your own opinion. Anything
authentic should be able to stand up to the scrutiny of open minded
individuals. Bigots usually do more harm to their own cause than
to the target of their bigotry.
Salim.
robin
Shan <gu...@medcor.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>
Shan, I agree with much of your comments, but tell me do you think Islam
is imperfect in anyway?
Robin++
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Salim Ahmed (asa...@dilbar.esd.sgi.com) wrote:
: If you are really interested in reading a neutral, unbiased and scientific
: inquiry into the authenticity of the Quran, I refer you to "The Bible,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: The Quran and Science" by Maurice Bucaille. The bottom line is that
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Regarding Maurice Bucaille's book "The Bible The Quoran and Science",
on reading it I have found that Maurice starts with an agenda of proving
the divine origin of Quoran. So it is hardly surprising that he ends up
finding such evidence. As for example on Page 140 (1979 edition) he
quotes a number of verses from the Quoran which talks about "seven
heavens", "seven paths" etc. and then without batting an eyelid he makes the
following statement
" The commentators on the Quo'ran are in agreement on all these verses:
the number 7 means no more than plurality."
He then goes on to conclude how the Quoran tells us about many possible
worlds.
No wonder with such broad latitude anything and everything in Quoran (or
in any other religious text) can be made to fit anything and everything
from bicycle to bevatron.
One also hears arguments like the Quoran must be true because X was
stated in Quoran and later it was shown by modern science that X is
true. I would like to point out that many science fiction writers wrote
about travel to the Moon and travel under the sea before technology made
such feats possible. If we apply similar standards of logic then we must
also conclude that these science fiction writers were inspired by an
omnipotent divinity.
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Gailani
robin <ro...@pe.net> wrote:
>>-Shan <gu...@medcor.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>>->
>>- Shan, I agree with much of your comments, but tell me do you think Islam
>>-is imperfect in anyway?
>>-Robin++
we Muslims definitly are imperfect.
Hope you happy now. Robin ++
gailani
Manu Dube
N. K. Agrawal (nagr...@wpo.hcc.com) wrote:
: When are you going to learn that "degrading other religion" and "mine is
: better than yours" is not what Hinduism teaches if you claim to be a
: Hindu.
Agarwaalji, when are you going to learn that using "I don't say anything
even if I find something stupid because I'm a Hindu" only shows that
Hinduism is a very stupid thing, atleast as you interpret it.
: There is probably no religios book in the world where one can't find a
: few contradictions. Quran is no exception. It also contains a lot of
: good texts like other religious books.
Yeah ...so why the hell drag "I am a Hindu" in it anyway?? Are you really
so hmm ...whatever minded that you cannot say or think anything without
religious aid?
: Present generation of Muslims may
: not accept but it is quite possible that a few distortions occured in
: the original text over the period of past 1400 years.
: How does it matter whether Quran is a word of God or not? It really
: depends upon what people believe. Also, mindless & fanatics like you
: wouldn't get a chance to attack if Muslims start trusting spirit of
: Quran more than the Mullah's interpretation.
Now now ...if God Awlmity is as intelligent as it is made out to be ...why
is it that he couldn't figgur out the implications of his actions of
giving out WORDS OF WISDOM to ppl like Arabs?? If he really couldn't
calculate simple stuff like what would happen in such a case ...heh
...what is the use of bothering about his other stuff?
And it doesn't matter what the reality is??? Just what people believe???
Why don't you go and start on some hallucinogens ...might make you more
attuned to reality ...closer atleast than you are at present. Actually ..
you sound surprisingly similar to the web page "Kids of the Future" or
something ...who advise the poor souls who go there ...not to pay
attention to what they see around themselves ...but only pay attention to
what they believe inside their head ...where there are no contradictions.
: Narendra
: "I'll accept just about anything to sound 'cool' and 'mature'"
Salim Ahmed
In article <5c6oqr$diq$1...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, bha...@unixg.ubc.ca (Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya) writes:
|> Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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|>
|> Salim Ahmed (asa...@dilbar.esd.sgi.com) wrote:
|>
|> : If you are really interested in reading a neutral, unbiased and scientific
|> : inquiry into the authenticity of the Quran, I refer you to "The Bible,
|> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|> : The Quran and Science" by Maurice Bucaille. The bottom line is that
|> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|>
|>
|> Regarding Maurice Bucaille's book "The Bible The Quoran and Science",
|> on reading it I have found that Maurice starts with an agenda of proving
|> the divine origin of Quoran.
Are you aware of any motive for doing this ?
|> He explains He then goes on to conclude how the Quoran tells us about
|> many possible worlds.
There is no great deduction needed for this. The plurality of worlds appears
throughout the Quran.
|> No wonder with such broad latitude anything and everything in Quoran (or
|> in any other religious text) can be made to fit anything and everything
|> from bicycle to bevatron.
I can think of a number of passages from a lot of other religious texts
that directly contradict proven observable facts. I don't intend on
offending anyone quoting passages here but if you read the descriptions
about the origin of the universe, you would immediately see how
it would be impossible to massage it into anything resembling a valid
explaination under the light of modern science.
|> One also hears arguments like the Quoran must be true because X was
|> stated in Quoran and later it was shown by modern science that X is
|> true. I would like to point out that many science fiction writers wrote
|> about travel to the Moon and travel under the sea before technology made
|> such feats possible.
First off, I don't think there were too many science fiction writers
in the seventh century. You have to view it in the context of the time period
in question. For anyone to say things which were clearly beyond the grasp of the
existing knowledge base would have been extremely unwise. There really was no
reason to throw in statements that no one understood at that time. The point
isn't since X was proven to be true therefore the Quran must be true. The point
is that one cannot find any statement in the Quran that can be scientifically
proven to be wrong. That's at least reason enough to suspend disbelief if
not acknowledge its divine source.
If we apply similar standards of logic then we must
|> also conclude that these science fiction writers were inspired by an
|> omnipotent divinity.
We all are whether we believe it or not. Some more so than others, I think.
The point is well taken. Although, if you beleive that someone with no
training in science and unable to write and without the aid of mathematics,
could come up with concepts that took many centuries and the development of
sophisticated measuring equipment to prove, you are tacitly acknowleding
a miracle :)
Salim.
"For those who believe no explanation is necessary,
For those who don't, no expalanation is possible."
-Unknown.
Raj Rathee
In article <32E5BB...@medcor.mcgill.ca>,
Shan <gu...@medcor.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>Tell me if you have read Quraan your self ? what is in it that you think
>that a Muslim or any human should be saved from? I hope you are not
>confusing Islam with what ever you see and hear on media.
>1. first of all its not a cult,
:-)
>2. No one has been forced to follow it.
:-) :-)
>3. What ever you see in Quraan, its only for human benefit.
:-) :-) :-)
>4. And what ever is forbidden its only because harm the human
>themselves. Think about it and I am sure you will be convinced too.
OK. I'm convinced. bawawawwawawwawwah.
Abdul Jalil Abdul Latiff
In article <5c4c5a$9...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>,
bab...@ix.netcom.com(The FRIENDLY netter) wrote:
>
> The topic of the thread is true. Quran is not word of God. Forget
>its being the word of God, it is not even words of a sane person. It is
>full fo contradiction, it lacks cohesion and and betrays the divine
>nature of the Universe. Mohammad was an imposter.
Whew. Look at this guy talk !
Well, i am commanded to just let you know that you are surrounded
by Hell.
Perhaps when you die & meet your creator, He will tell you why,
but until then, if you only knew when Hell will strike you, you would not be
saying too much about things you do not understand.
Additionally, there are many muslims around, and it is quite a stupid thing
to say such things in public, don't you think so ?
Why no to something wiser, like try and find out if you can be certain
that you will wake up tommorrow :)
> This topic has been discussed millions of time on this net, still if
>someone is there who joined later, or has some specific doubt, I will
>try my best to explain him the truth.
Ooo, you volunteer to explain the truth.
Explain to me this.
Why does God create someone like you ?
> I am forgetting the name of the person who said, " Muslims are the
>fist victime of Islam, and it is duty of humanity to same muslims from
>it."
Perhaps there is some truth of what you said, but tell me, who will save you
from your death ?
I hope the day you need help from near death, it would be the very muslim you
hated, for a true muslim will try and save you, regardless of what you say,
even at that moment. But my advise is don't take your chances and say too
many things that might surprise him, for he might suffer from a minor shock
and unintentionally let the rope go.
------------------------------------------------------
Abdul Jalil Bin Abdul Latiff - Witness
------------------------------------------------------
The FRIENDLY netter
In <5c6mks$1...@murrow.corp.sgi.com> asa...@dilbar.esd.sgi.com (Salim
Ahmed) writes:
>|> Baburam imposting as The FRIENDLY netter wrote:
>|> >
>|> > The topic of the thread is true. Quran is not word of God.
Forget
>|> > its being the word of God, it is not even words of a sane person.
It is
>|> > full fo contradiction, it lacks cohesion and and betrays the
divine
>|> > nature of the Universe. Mohammad was an imposter.
>|> >
still if
>|> > someone is there who joined later, or has some specific doubt, I
will
>|> > try my best to explain him the truth.
>|> >
the
>|> > fist victime of Islam, and it is duty of humanity to same muslims
from
>|> > it."
>|>
>|>
>
scientific
>inquiry into the authenticity of the Quran, I refer you to "The Bible,
I am not taking of what an Islmic Apologist writes about the islam.
If you really want to read islam, read the original Quran to understand
it.
The Quran is full of inconsistancies. I will not list all of them,
but write one by one as the this thread continues. I will appreciate
your efforts if you try to prove me or my argumets incorrect. To set
thsi thread going, I will start with this question, "What is meaning of
Satanic Verses?"
"Satanic Verses" is the name of Sulman Rushdies book, but this term
was first coined by John Muir. Do you know what is meaning of Satanic
Verses in sensse of Quran????
I will request all muslims to answer my questions sincerly. After
all they must understand or else they will always be in the illusion
of islam.
Regards,
TFN
The bottom line is that
The FRIENDLY netter
In <32E66F...@wpo.hcc.com> "N. K. Agrawal" <nagr...@wpo.hcc.com>
writes:
>
>Baburam imposting as The FRIENDLY netter wrote:
>>
>> The topic of the thread is true. Quran is not word of God. Forget
>> its being the word of God, it is not even words of a sane person. It
is
>> full fo contradiction, it lacks cohesion and and betrays the divine
>> nature of the Universe. Mohammad was an imposter.
>>
>> This topic has been discussed millions of time on this net, still
if
>> someone is there who joined later, or has some specific doubt, I
will
>> try my best to explain him the truth.
>>
>> I am forgetting the name of the person who said, " Muslims are
the
>> fist victime of Islam, and it is duty of humanity to same muslims
from
>> it."
>
>
>
>When are you going to learn that "degrading other religion" and "mine
is
>better than yours" is not what Hinduism teaches if you claim to be a
>Hindu.
Dear Aggrawal: YOur stupidity is worth recognition. I am not
comparing Hinduism with Islam in this post. Please come out of your
communal overhang.
The islam is a bad ideology and I am interested in analyzing it on
intellectual sence.
Regards
TFN
>
>There is probably no religios book in the world where one can't find a
>few contradictions. Quran is no exception. It also contains a lot of
>good texts like other religious books. Present generation of Muslims
may
>not accept but it is quite possible that a few distortions occured in
>the original text over the period of past 1400 years.
>
>How does it matter whether Quran is a word of God or not? It really
>depends upon what people believe. Also, mindless & fanatics like you
>wouldn't get a chance to attack if Muslims start trusting spirit of
>Quran more than the Mullah's interpretation.
>
>
>Narendra
saleena begum saleem
Gailani (sy...@laker.net) wrote:
: robin <ro...@pe.net> wrote:
: >>-Robin++
: gailani
u've hit the nail....
sal.
N HAZARIKA
Whoa! Whoa!
all the discussions below and blah, blah... etc. are positing the existence
of a "soul". What happens if there is no such thing?
In article <5cb0f5$jj0...@brf41.jaring.my>,
ja...@pop.jaring.my (Abdul Jalil Abdul Latiff) writes:
> In article <5c4c5a$9...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>,
> bab...@ix.netcom.com(The FRIENDLY netter) wrote:
>>
Someone else replied:
>
> Perhaps there is some truth of what you said, but tell me, who will save you
> from your death ?
>
> I hope the day you need help from near death, it would be the very muslim you
> hated, for a true muslim will try and save you, regardless of what you say,
> even at that moment. But my advise is don't take your chances and say too
> many things that might surprise him, for he might suffer from a minor shock
> and unintentionally let the rope go.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Abdul Jalil Bin Abdul Latiff - Witness
> ------------------------------------------------------
Cheers,
--
Neep Hazarika Neural Computing Research Group, CSAM
Aston University, Aston Triangle, Birmingham B4 7ET, U.K.
Phone: +44-121-359-3611 Ext. 4652 (work) +44-121-554-8247 (home)
E-mail: n.haz...@aston.ac.uk Fax: +44-121-333-6215
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Salim Ahmed (asa...@dilbar.esd.sgi.com) wrote:
: Are you aware of any motive for doing this ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One possible conjecture could be that Maurice wanted to please the
Saudis. He mentions gratitude to one king of Saudi Arabia (Fahd or
Faisal) in the preface to his book.
: |> He explains He then goes on to conclude how the Quoran tells us about
: |> many possible worlds.
: There is no great deduction needed for this. The plurality of worlds appears
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: throughout the Quran.
You are missing the point. Maurice argues as follows:
Step 1: He mentions verses where the word seven is mentioned as in "Seven
Heavens" etc.
Step 2: He mentions that most Arabic scholars agree that in these verses
Seven means many.
Step 3: Maurice concludes that Quran talks about the existence of
multiple worlds.
Such a reasoning is not at all scientific. It is dishonest argumentation
masquereading as science. As a test take the above style of argumentation
and apply it to any religious text. You will be able to "prove" that any
religious text had all the scientific knowledge neatly wrapped up.
: I can think of a number of passages from a lot of other religious texts
: that directly contradict proven observable facts. I don't intend on
: offending anyone quoting passages here but if you read the descriptions
: about the origin of the universe, you would immediately see how
: it would be impossible to massage it into anything resembling a valid
: explaination under the light of modern science.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am not saying that the descriptions of origin of Universe by other
religions are the truth. All I am saying is that Maurice used highly
questionable argument and a very broad interpretation of words to arrive
at the conclusions that he did.
: First off, I don't think there were too many science fiction writers
: in the seventh century. You have to view it in the context of the time period
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am afraid that again you are missing the point. My point is a
methodological one. Jules Verne talked about submarine long before
submarine was ever invented. That does not mean that Verne was divinely
inspired. Similarly, if you argue that some facts known today is
mentioned in Quran (or Vedas or Bible or Torah ) if we adopt a very
stretched out interpretation of the words is a proof of divine origin of
the text under question, then Verne has a better claim to proximity to
divinity. This is not to say that the Quran (or Vedas or Bible or Torah)
is true or false. Essentially people believe their own particular
religious text to be the truth. Arguments like the one advanced by Maurice
are flimsy does not establish the truth or falsehood of anything.
: in question. For anyone to say things which were clearly beyond the grasp of the
: existing knowledge base would have been extremely unwise. There really was no
: reason to throw in statements that no one understood at that time. The point
: isn't since X was proven to be true therefore the Quran must be true. The point
: is that one cannot find any statement in the Quran that can be scientifically
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: proven to be wrong. That's at least reason enough to suspend disbelief if
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you allow the same stretching of meaning that Maurice does then you
can never prove ANYTHING in ANY RELIGIOUS TEXT to be wrong!
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
N. K. Agrawal
"mine is
:> : better than yours" is not what Hinduism teaches if you claim to be
a
:> : Hindu.
> even if I find something stupid because I'm a Hindu" only shows that
> Hinduism is a very stupid thing, atleast as you interpret it.
I was opposing to Baburam's reference to an holy book as the work of
some insane person. This is certainly not a well thought criticism but
looks like to have come out of hatred or again "mine is better than
yours syndrome".
>
:> : There is probably no religios book in the world where one can't
find a
:> : few contradictions. Quran is no exception. It also contains a lot
of
:> : good texts like other religious books.
:>
> Yeah ...so why the hell drag "I am a Hindu" in it anyway?? Are you really
> so hmm ...whatever minded that you cannot say or think anything without
> religious aid?
Because a lot of people, including perhaps you, are imposting as self
proclaimed spokeperson for Hindus on this group. One should never hurt
faith & feelings of other people, because basically this is what
religion is all about.
:> : Present generation of Muslims may
:> : not accept but it is quite possible that a few distortions occured
in
:> : the original text over the period of past 1400 years.
:> : How does it matter whether Quran is a word of God or not? It really
:> : depends upon what people believe. Also, mindless & fanatics like
you
:> : wouldn't get a chance to attack if Muslims start trusting spirit of
:> : Quran more than the Mullah's interpretation.
>
> Now now ...if God Awlmity is as intelligent as it is made out to be ...why
> is it that he couldn't figgur out the implications of his actions of
> giving out WORDS OF WISDOM to ppl like Arabs?? If he really couldn't
> calculate simple stuff like what would happen in such a case ...heh
> ...what is the use of bothering about his other stuff?
Let me ask you, Babu Bandar and everybody else, why is it causing pain
in your stomach whether Quran is a word of God or not. Whatever it is,
that word was not given to you.
>
> And it doesn't matter what the reality is??? Just what people believe???
> Why don't you go and start on some hallucinogens ...might make you more
> attuned to reality ...closer atleast than you are at present. Actually ..
> you sound surprisingly similar to the web page "Kids of the Future" or
> something ...who advise the poor souls who go there ...not to pay
> attention to what they see around themselves ...but only pay attention to
> what they believe inside their head ...where there are no contradictions.
>
You are doing the same by advising people how bad Quran is, on this
group.
I believe, Quran was written out of some good motive and that's why
people should follow it's spirit and not just the words and grammar.
Islamic world will change when it happens.
> : "I'll accept just about anything to sound 'cool' and 'mature'"
I didn't write the above line. Please don't distort my posts.
Narendra
Ranjit Mathews Piravonu
The FRIENDLY netter wrote:
>
> I was interested in a serious discussion and I asked one questions
> to Muslims, What is meaning of SATANIC VERSES ? Any muslims willing to
> reply.
>
> REgards,
> TFN
>
It would be interesting to hear what contemporary Muslims'
perspective on this. The account I've read is:
The Satanic Verses are found in Sura 53:19-20 which speak about the
goddesses Allat, Manat and Al Uzza, recognized by Muhammad during a
dispiriting time in Mecca. When he mentioned them, the Meccans rejoiced
and joined him in prayer. Then, supposedly Gabriel told him later to
change this revelation. This outraged the Meccans and Moses had to
flee to Medina.
Sura 53.19 "Have you then considered the Lat and the Uzza,
And Manat, the third, the last?
these are the exhalted birds [gharaniq]
whose intercession is approved
Sura 109 "Say O unbelievers, I serve not what you serve
and you are not serving what I serve,
Nor am I serving what you have served.
To you your religion and to me my religion!"
---
Ranjit Mathews ran...@swdc.stratus.com
2065 Hamilton Ave 408-559-5371
San Jose, CA 95125-5905 www.stratus.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Javaid Wani
YOU ARE A REAL BASTARD. THAT WAS REALLY SAD TIME WHEN YOU WERE CONCEIVED
(IF YOU HAVE COME THROUGH A WOMB). YOU DONOT BELONG TO ANY RELIGION. IF I
SEE YOU I WILL BURY YOU ALIVE, YOU MOTHER FUCKER.
WITH REGARDS YOU DESERVE.
In article <32E5BB...@medcor.mcgill.ca>, Shan <gu...@medcor.mcgill.ca> wrote:
> The FRIENDLY netter wrote:
> >
> > The topic of the thread is true. Quran is not word of God. Forget
> > its being the word of God, it is not even words of a sane person. It is
> > full fo contradiction, it lacks cohesion and and betrays the divine
> > nature of the Universe. Mohammad was an imposter.
> >
> > This topic has been discussed millions of time on this net, still if
> > someone is there who joined later, or has some specific doubt, I will
> > try my best to explain him the truth.
> >
> > I am forgetting the name of the person who said, " Muslims are the
> > fist victime of Islam, and it is duty of humanity to same muslims from
> > it."
> >
> > Regards,
> > TFN
> >
> > In <01bc075e$998ce800$1baf...@singnet.singnet.com.sg> "AZAM ALI"
> > <ali...@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Sher-ni <vgs...@interlog.com> wrote in article
> > ><32E28A...@interlog.com>...
> > >> > the Quran is not the word of God.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> WELL SAID MO!!
> > >> --
> > >>
> > >GO TO HELL WITH YOUR NON SENSE
> Tell me if you have read Quraan your self ? what is in it that you think
> that a Muslim or any human should be saved from? I hope you are not
> confusing Islam with what ever you see and hear on media.
> 1. first of all its not a cult,
> 2. No one has been forced to follow it.
> 3. What ever you see in Quraan, its only for human benefit.
The FRIENDLY netter
Illusioned Muslims: Here is the full quote;
" Muslims are the first victim of Islam. Many Times I have observed
in my travels in the Orient, that fanaticism comes from a small number
of dangerous men who maintain others in the practice of religion by
terror. To liberate the Muslims from his religion is the best service
one can render him" - E. Renan
sorry for the heartburn, but it will be shocking for you guys to
learn that islam is really bogus ideology ( in fact it is not any
ideology).
I was interested in a serious discussion and I asked one questions
to Muslims, What is meaning of SATANIC VERSES ? Any muslims willing to
reply.
REgards,
TFN
In <Wani-24019...@159.14.42.16> Wa...@A1.mscf.upenn.edu (Javaid
The FRIENDLY netter
In <32E930...@wpo.hcc.com> "N. K. Agrawal" <nagr...@wpo.hcc.com>
writes:
>
>Manu Dube wrote:
>>
>> N. K. Agrawal (nagr...@wpo.hcc.com) wrote:
>>
>:> : When are you going to learn that "degrading other religion" and
>"mine is
>:> : better than yours" is not what Hinduism teaches if you claim to
be
>a
>:> : Hindu.
>:>
>> Agarwaalji, when are you going to learn that using "I don't say
anything
>> even if I find something stupid because I'm a Hindu" only shows that
>> Hinduism is a very stupid thing, atleast as you interpret it.
>
>I was opposing to Baburam's reference to an holy book as the work of
>some insane person. This is certainly not a well thought criticism but
>looks like to have come out of hatred or again "mine is better than
>yours syndrome".
The issue is to anyalyze the quality and merit of a book ( Quran in
this case). Any objective analysis of the book should be free from any
prejudices that it is holy book of muslims, and therfore it should be
not criticized.
>
>>
>:> : There is probably no religios book in the world where one can't
>find a
>:> : few contradictions. Quran is no exception. It also contains a lot
>of
>:> : good texts like other religious books.
So you agree that quran is an imperfect book. Will you please tell
and explain muslims how Quran is an imperfect. If you cannot do that,
do not jump into when others are doing the same. Arent we trying to
explain that Quran is not a work of sane person becuase a sane person
cannot author book like QURAN.
>:>
>> Yeah ...so why the hell drag "I am a Hindu" in it anyway?? Are you
really
>> so hmm ...whatever minded that you cannot say or think anything
without
>> religious aid?
>
>Because a lot of people, including perhaps you, are imposting as self
>proclaimed spokeperson for Hindus on this group. One should never hurt
>faith & feelings of other people, because basically this is what
>religion is all about.
And will you tell me for what reason you are apoligizing for
QURAN??
>
>:> : Present generation of Muslims may
>:> : not accept but it is quite possible that a few distortions
occured
>in
>:> : the original text over the period of past 1400 years.
>:> : How does it matter whether Quran is a word of God or not? It
really
>:> : depends upon what people believe. Also, mindless & fanatics like
>you
>:> : wouldn't get a chance to attack if Muslims start trusting spirit
of
>:> : Quran more than the Mullah's interpretation.
>>
>> Now now ...if God Awlmity is as intelligent as it is made out to be
...why
>> is it that he couldn't figgur out the implications of his actions of
>> giving out WORDS OF WISDOM to ppl like Arabs?? If he really couldn't
>> calculate simple stuff like what would happen in such a case ...heh
>> ...what is the use of bothering about his other stuff?
>
>Let me ask you, Babu Bandar and everybody else, why is it causing pain
>in your stomach whether Quran is a word of God or not. Whatever it is,
>that word was not given to you.
Becuase there are large number of Muslims in India as well as
hostile neighbours around it, who just want to destroy india, becuase
QURAN and its followers cannot coexist with Kafirs ( Hindus and other
non- Muslims). It is therefore, responsibility of all Indians to save
India form Isalm ( for nationalistic reasons ) and save Muslism from
Islam ( for Humanistic reasons).
Regards,
TFN
Gailani
robin <ro...@pe.net> wrote:
>>-sy...@laker.net ( Gailani) wrote:
>>-
>>-> we Muslims definitly are imperfect.
>>-> Hope you happy now. Robin ++
>>->
>>->
>>-> gailani
>>-Errr.. Not really, my question was not about Muslims, but about
>>-Islam. SO let us know if you think Islam - the Quran and the sayings
>>-and life of the Prophet are imperfect. Also could you tell us
>>-what specifically is wrong.
>>-Thank You
>>-Robin
Robin, answer is there, all you need is just
look real close , you will find it. I know you are
smart enough.
rgds,
gailani
robin
fox...@bu.edu (saleena begum saleem) wrote:
> u've hit the nail....
>
> sal.
Saleena:
Same question to you too! I do think you (and Gailani)
ought not to shy away from a simple "Yes, slam is imperfect"
and list why you feel so!
Robin
robin
bab...@ix.netcom.com(The FRIENDLY netter) wrote:
>
>
> The topic of the thread is true. Quran is not word of God. Forget
> its being the word of God, it is not even words of a sane person. It is
> full fo contradiction, it lacks cohesion and and betrays the divine
> nature of the Universe. Mohammad was an imposter.
In the Hindu frame of reference, God is everywhere and in everything.
So the Quran and the Gita (and Mad magazine) are all works of God(/ly
persons). I suspect you are right that the Quran is flawed (as
is everything else ). Your statement re Proph Mohd is - pardon me - stupid.
He ought to have said "I am divine"! He seems to have been too modest
to say so...!
>
> This topic has been discussed millions of time on this net, still if
> someone is there who joined later, or has some specific doubt, I will
> try my best to explain him the truth.
Why do I get the feeling you are unlikely to be approached by seekers
of "the truth" :-)
> Regards,
> TFN
Robin
ARVINDSODHI
Robin Bhai,
Akalmand ko ishara hi kafee hota hai.
Gailani thinks you are akalmand. So take the hint man.
And don't put him in a spot.
arvind.
Nomi
HELLO IDIOT TFN
NOW I BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE SOME SERIOUS PROBLEMS WITH YOUR LIFE ,
DONT WORRY IDIOT TFN , THE HELL IS WAITING FOR YOUR CLUMSY FLESH AND
THERE WILL BE A DAY WHEN WE (MUSLIMS) WOULD LAUGH AT YOUR FILTHY
STATE...! GET GO TO HELL AND HURRY UP!!
>
> The topic of the thread is true. Quran is not word of God. Forget
>its being the word of God, it is not even words of a sane person. It is
>full fo contradiction, it lacks cohesion and and betrays the divine
>nature of the Universe. Mohammad was an imposter.
>
> This topic has been discussed millions of time on this net, still if
>someone is there who joined later, or has some specific doubt, I will
>try my best to explain him the truth.
>
N. Tiwari
Salim Ahmed (asa...@dilbar.esd.sgi.com) wrote:
: If you are really interested in reading a neutral, unbiased and scientific
: inquiry into the authenticity of the Quran, I refer you to "The Bible,
: The Quran and Science" by Maurice Bucaille. The bottom line is that
**********************
: there isn't a single fact mentioned in the Quran that contradicts what
***********************************************************************
: we know to be true in science. Unlike other texts that have been changed
*******************************
Hardly true to begin with. It is a plain assertion of yours, with no
basis at all. Secondly, if Quran and science are so consistent, show
me the proof that Quran is the word of Allah as it claims. That shall
be a good beginning.
: for political or other well intentioned reasons, the Quran has been
: transcribed verbatim. Having read a lot of scriptures from other "human"
: sources, I am struck by the simplicity and timelessness of the verses
***********************************************************
: in Quran, particularly the absense of elaborate imagery or dense
*****************************************************
: philosophical concepts that can only be understood by theologians.
Totally inaccurate. Firstly, Quran and Hadis are not time-less.
Or else, how would you justify the relevance of 4 marriages
in modern times. Or the prescription that pig should not be
eaten, even if it is clean and well raised. That blows off
your time-less-ness claim. Secondly, it is not at all simple.
In fact, there are strong advices given to the ummah, that
the right way to understand QUran by seeking the opinion of
learned qazis and maulvis. This is ONE reason, why a Muslim
cannot have a direct relationship with God. (S)he has to have
the first interemediary as Mohammed, and several others in form
of priests. And it is the lack of explicitness (not essentially
bad) that you have several schools of thought withing regular
Islam. Also, the only way to get a good understanding of Koran
is by learning Arabic. That is not an easy task.
--
Nachiketa Tiwari
rafay
robin, i will ask you the same question again ..... which you seem to
be avoiding .. which religion were you born in and which one do you
practice today?
sahibzada rafay khan
robin
sy...@laker.net ( Gailani) wrote:
>
> robin <ro...@pe.net> wrote:
>
> >>-sy...@laker.net ( Gailani) wrote:
> >>-
> >>-> we Muslims definitly are imperfect.
> >>-> Hope you happy now. Robin ++
> >>->
> >>->
> >>-> gailani
>
>
> >>-Errr.. Not really, my question was not about Muslims, but about
> >>-Islam. SO let us know if you think Islam - the Quran and the sayings
> >>-and life of the Prophet are imperfect. Also could you tell us
> >>-what specifically is wrong.
>
> >>-Thank You
>
> >>-Robin
>
> Robin, answer is there, all you need is just
> look real close , you will find it. I know you are
> smart enough.
>
> rgds,
>
> gailani
>
Bear with me and spell it out! Say "Islam is imperfect" and MORE
IMPORTANTLY please indicate in what way.
Thanks
Robin
Ranjit Mathews Piravonu
N. Tiwari wrote:
>
> Salim Ahmed (asa...@dilbar.esd.sgi.com) wrote:
>
> : If you are really interested in reading a neutral, unbiased and
scientific
> : inquiry into the authenticity of the Quran, I refer you to "The
Bible,
> : The Quran and Science" by Maurice Bucaille. The bottom line is that
> **********************
> : there isn't a single fact mentioned in the Quran that contradicts
what
>
***********************************************************************
> : we know to be true in science. Unlike other texts that have been
changed
> *******************************
Has it been proven that a woman has only half the intelligence of
a man ?
> --
> Nachiketa Tiwari
The FRIENDLY netter
In <32E9B946...@swdc.stratus.com> Ranjit Mathews Piravonu
<ran...@swdc.stratus.com> writes:
>The FRIENDLY netter wrote:
>>
>> I was interested in a serious discussion and I asked one
questions
>> to Muslims, What is meaning of SATANIC VERSES ? Any muslims willing
to
>> reply.
>>
>> REgards,
>> TFN
>>
>perspective on this. The account I've read is:
>
>The Satanic Verses are found in Sura 53:19-20 which speak about the
>goddesses Allat, Manat and Al Uzza, recognized by Muhammad during a
>dispiriting time in Mecca. When he mentioned them, the Meccans
rejoiced
>and joined him in prayer. Then, supposedly Gabriel told him later to
>change this revelation. This outraged the Meccans and Moses had to
>flee to Medina.
>
>Sura 53.19 "Have you then considered the Lat and the Uzza,
>And Manat, the third, the last?
>these are the exhalted birds [gharaniq]
>whose intercession is approved
>
>Sura 109 "Say O unbelievers, I serve not what you serve
>and you are not serving what I serve,
>Nor am I serving what you have served.
Thank you Mathews:
No muslim is going to disucss SATANIC VERSES with you or anyone. The
muslims avoid any discussion on this topic as it proves beyond any
doubt that Mohammad was an very ordinary person, who impersonated as
messanger of God. Unfortunately, islam is still folling muslims.
The SATANIC verses raises the question over the authenticity of the
QURAN as words of God( or even a person in good mental health). The
verses are called SATANIC, becuase when Muhammad spoke these words,
SATAN was sitting on the mouth of Muhammad and he made him ( Muhammad )
speak those verses ( which were , of course, wrong and has to be
revoked) in which he accepts that ALLAH is not the only god. The
recognition of gods of PAGAN Meccan proves that ALLAH is not the only
god.
The satanic verses are in straight conflict with the doctrine of
islam that ALLAH is the only GOD and the idol worship is a sin.
INtellectuals ask this questions to Muslims scholars, which is never
replied with, i.e. what is the proof that SATAN was not sitting on the
tounge of Muhammad when other parts of the quran were revealed. If
SATAN can decieve Muhammad and GOD, it means that SATAN is more
powerful than GOD. How will one know what verses in QURAN are words of
GOD and what are the words of SATAN.
AS the situation stands. Whole QURAN is word of SATAN. IT is not for
nothing that Rene called upon the humanity to save muslisms from ISLAM.
REgards,
TFN
>---
Mansoor Khan
In article <32E66F...@wpo.hcc.com> nagr...@wpo.hcc.com writes:
>Baburam imposting as The FRIENDLY netter wrote:
>>
>> its being the word of God, it is not even words of a sane person. It is
>> full fo contradiction, it lacks cohesion and and betrays the divine
>> nature of the Universe. Mohammad was an imposter.
>>
>> This topic has been discussed millions of time on this net, still if
>> someone is there who joined later, or has some specific doubt, I will
>> try my best to explain him the truth.
>>
>> I am forgetting the name of the person who said, " Muslims are the
>> fist victime of Islam, and it is duty of humanity to same muslims from
>> it."
>
>
>
>When are you going to learn that "degrading other religion" and "mine is
>better than yours" is not what Hinduism teaches if you claim to be a
>Hindu.
>
>few contradictions. Quran is no exception. It also contains a lot of
>not accept but it is quite possible that a few distortions occured in
>the original text over the period of past 1400 years.
You can always claim that Quran is fake to begin with, but
the Quran today is exactly like what it was 1400 years ago.
there are hundreds of old copies and you can comapre it
word to word. So there is no distortion over 1400+ years.
Now if you come back with something like that Quran is fake
then we have our Net-Mujahideens who can answer you on that:-)
Mansoor Khan
Cleveland, Ohio
>
>How does it matter whether Quran is a word of God or not? It really
>depends upon what people believe. Also, mindless & fanatics like you
>wouldn't get a chance to attack if Muslims start trusting spirit of
>Quran more than the Mullah's interpretation.
>
>
>Narendra
Gailani
ARVINDSODHI <ARVIN...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>-Robin Bhai,
>>-Akalmand ko ishara hi kafee hota hai.
>>-Gailani thinks you are akalmand. So take the hint man.
>>-And don't put him in a spot.
>>-arvind.
&&&& Arvind i would let you two Hindu friends
discuss and bash Islam, we will quietly read and
learn from you two intellectuals. No you not
putting me on spot but revealing your ??????
rgds,
gailani
>>-Gailani wrote:
>>->
>>-> robin <ro...@pe.net> wrote:
>>->
>>-> >>-sy...@laker.net ( Gailani) wrote:
>>-> >>-
>>-> >>-> we Muslims definitly are imperfect.
>>-> >>-> Hope you happy now. Robin ++
>>-> >>->
>>-> >>->
>>-> >>-> gailani
>>->
>>-> >>-Errr.. Not really, my question was not about Muslims, but about
>>-> >>-Islam. SO let us know if you think Islam - the Quran and the sayings
>>-> >>-and life of the Prophet are imperfect. Also could you tell us
>>-> >>-what specifically is wrong.
>>->
>>-> >>-Thank You
>>->
>>-> >>-Robin
>>->
>>-> Robin, answer is there, all you need is just
>>-> look real close , you will find it. I know you are
>>-> smart enough.
>>->
>>-> rgds,
>>->
>>-> gailani
Gailani
robin <ro...@pe.net> wrote:
>>->
>>-Gailani:
>>-Bear with me and spell it out! Say "Islam is imperfect" and MORE
>>-IMPORTANTLY please indicate in what way.
>>-Thanks
>>-Robin
raam jee,
I wanna make you feel good, so here it is
"hinduism is "PERFECT" ????
Hope this will help.
rgds,
gailani
rafay
robin wrote:
>
> Bear with me and spell it out! Say "Islam is imperfect" and MORE
>
>
>
> Robin
Ask not us whether our religion is perfect
but ask yourself whether your own belief is imperfect
which makes you ask these questions
Abdul Jalil Abdul Latiff
>Bear with me and spell it out! Say "Islam is imperfect" and MORE
>
>IMPORTANTLY please indicate in what way.
>
>Thanks
>
>Robin
Brother, you have observed Islam through muslims, and indeed mankind is
imperfect and you are right, muslims are imperfect, though born perfect.
Why we bother so much is because we all seek the perfection
we lost after the fall.
Thus God is perfect, Islam and so thus all other religion.
They all teach they way to perfection, but most people do not understand and
most people choose the difficult way.
Which is the best way to perfection is for you yourself to judge.
If you think Islam in not good for you, then it is not good for you.
But if you see a muslim, more 'perfect' than yourself, then perhaps you
have something to learn ?
If you do not wish, the loss is your own.
I am just a bringer of good news.
The good news is simple, what is good for you is good for you.
Never mind what other people.
I uphold what is good and just and fair.
For God is Best, and Most Fair.
And To God we all shall return.
Abdul Jalil Abdul Latiff
In article <5ceoit$l...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
bab...@ix.netcom.com(The FRIENDLY netter) wrote:
> Thank you Mathews:
>
> No muslim is going to disucss SATANIC VERSES with you or anyone. The
>muslims avoid any discussion on this topic as it proves beyond any
>doubt that Mohammad was an very ordinary person, who impersonated as
>messanger of God. Unfortunately, islam is still folling muslims.
Amongst the false you speak is this ...
> No muslim is going to disucss SATANIC VERSES with you or anyone.
Here is one muslim, whom God has proven beyond reasonable doubt, that Truth
is Clear from Error.
The burden is now on you. And if you fail, and you would surely fail, then be
it known to you, then Hell awaits you *now*, for what happens after death is
beyond what i know.
robin
sy...@laker.net ( Gailani) wrote:
> raam jee,
>
> I wanna make you feel good, so here it is
>
> "hinduism is "PERFECT" ????
>
> Hope this will help.
>
>
> rgds,
>
> gailani
>
The question was whether you felt Islam is imperfect in any way,
and if so how.
Thank You
Robin
I
robin
robin
Hinduised Catholic and am occasionally Agnostic!
Robin
PS: Rafay, could you tell us specifically how is Islam
is imperfect?
Thanks
Mohammad Ahmad
First of all man, have you read the book???? ,do you know what the hell
the book talks about?? ....i have read it..it's a book of thilth my
friend, if you are a white man he called you all sons of bitches and that
white women ,no matter what they where where for fucking and throwing
over, he insulted ALL the religions of the world ,READ THE BLOODY BOOK
FOR GODS SAKE!!!!!!!!,now do you expect me to take the words satanic
verses??????....from a gabage like that?????
Prem Thomas
robin wrote:
>
>
> Gailani:
>
> The question was whether you felt Islam is imperfect in any way,
> and if so how.
>
> Thank You
>
> Robin
> I
*Every* religion is imperfect, insomuch as religion is a human device,
and humans are imperfect.
Prem
mailto:pre...@qed.net
Prem Thomas
robin wrote:
>
>
> > robin, i will ask you the same question again ..... which you seem to
> > be avoiding .. which religion were you born in and which one do you
> > practice today?
> >
> > sahibzada rafay khan
>
> Hinduised Catholic and am occasionally Agnostic!
Huh???
Prem
mailto:pre...@qed.net
Vivek Chopra
Mohammad Ahmad wrote:
I take it that you are talking about Rushdie's Satanic Verses? Sorry
friend, most of us *can't* read it. Our right to read and make up our
own mind about it was taken away. It is banned here in India and in
lots of other places.
--
/* Vivek Chopra */
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
N. K. Agrawal
The FRIENDLY netter wrote:
>
> In <32E66F...@wpo.hcc.com> "N. K. Agrawal" <nagr...@wpo.hcc.com>
> writes:
> >
[snip]
>
> Dear Aggrawal: Your stupidity is worth recognition. I am not
> comparing Hinduism with Islam in this post. Please come out of your
> communal overhang.
>
> The islam is a bad ideology and I am interested in analyzing it on
> intellectual sence.
>
> Regards
> TFN
Baburam asking somebody to come out of "communal overhang" is like a
vulture giving lecture on vegetarianism.
Anyway, I am pleased you can recognize stupidity and therefore, may be
some day, you will recognize your own and stop writing bullshit and also
imposting as TFN on SCI.
Narendra
[snip]
Ranjit Mathews Piravonu
catholic Hinduism AND agnostic Catholicism :)-
>
> Huh? So which one do you think is perfect?
> Hinduism, Catholicism and/or Agnosticism?
>
> Waiting for your answer.
>
> Mohammad Noorul Islam
--
Ranjit Mathews ran...@swdc.stratus.com
2065 Hamilton Ave 408-559-5371
San Jose, CA 95125-5905 www.stratus.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mo
Somebody should post the two cahpeters dealing with Islam on the web
-with his pemission of course
mis...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
In article <5ch962$o...@nntp.pe.net> robin <ro...@pe.net> writes:
>Hinduised Catholic and am occasionally Agnostic!
Huh? So which one do you think is perfect?
robin
rafay <ra...@sprynet.com> wrote:
Ask not us whether our religion is perfect
> but ask yourself whether your own belief is imperfect
> which makes you ask these questions
Rafay! Having read your articulate and witty posts, especially
noting your frequent non-conformism, I can only say " et tu
Brutus?"
Robin (man of peace)
Dhruba Chakravarti
Ranjit Mathews Piravonu (ran...@swdc.stratus.com) wrote:
: catholic Hinduism AND agnostic Catholicism :)-
Dear Ranjitji:
If I may, in the dictionary sense of catholicity, Hinduism is very
catholic. Hindus pride themselves for the catholicity of their religion.
With best regards,
Dhruba.
robin
Prem Thomas <pre...@qed.net> wrote:
>>
> *Every* religion is imperfect, insomuch as religion is a human device,
> and humans are imperfect.
>
> Prem
Prem:
I would think some would argue that religion is not a "human"
device! I agree with you anyway.
Robin
robin
Neither! The imperfections of both are legion. But I am waiting
for a simple, "yes, Islam is imperfect.. and this is
why..." (I realise that you may have addressed this in prior
posts. If you should care to repost them, I would be interested
to read your views.)
Robin
Babar Rasheed Khan
> Thank you Mathews:
>
> No muslim is going to disucss SATANIC VERSES with you or anyone. The
> muslims avoid any discussion on this topic as it proves beyond any
> doubt that Mohammad was an very ordinary person, who impersonated as
> messanger of God. Unfortunately, islam is still folling muslims.
>
> The SATANIC verses raises the question over the authenticity of the
> QURAN as words of God( or even a person in good mental health). The
> verses are called SATANIC, becuase when Muhammad spoke these words,
> SATAN was sitting on the mouth of Muhammad and he made him ( Muhammad )
> speak those verses ( which were , of course, wrong and has to be
> revoked) in which he accepts that ALLAH is not the only god. The
> recognition of gods of PAGAN Meccan proves that ALLAH is not the only
> god.
>
> The satanic verses are in straight conflict with the doctrine of
> islam that ALLAH is the only GOD and the idol worship is a sin.
>
> INtellectuals ask this questions to Muslims scholars, which is never
> replied with, i.e. what is the proof that SATAN was not sitting on the
> tounge of Muhammad when other parts of the quran were revealed. If
> SATAN can decieve Muhammad and GOD, it means that SATAN is more
> powerful than GOD. How will one know what verses in QURAN are words of
> GOD and what are the words of SATAN.
>
> AS the situation stands. Whole QURAN is word of SATAN. IT is not for
> nothing that Rene called upon the humanity to save muslisms from ISLAM.
>
> REgards,
> TFN
> >---
> >Ranjit Mathews ran...@swdc.stratus.com
> >2065 Hamilton Ave 408-559-5371
> >San Jose, CA 95125-5905 www.stratus.com
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>
>
>
To Ranjit,
Just because you are a pagan that follows a rather low
form of idolitary even now in 1997, you don't don't have to go on ends to
try and prove otherwise about muslims. We detest the garbage that you
follow. Meanwhile lets talk about religeous prostitution( devadasi) and
suttee( bride burning). Disgusting!! Worry about your own dirty laundry
before you start trying to make others look like yourself!
Babar Rasheed Khan
On 25 Jan 1997, robin wrote:
> sy...@laker.net ( Gailani) wrote:
> >
> > robin <ro...@pe.net> wrote:
> >
> > >>-sy...@laker.net ( Gailani) wrote:
> > >>-
> > >>-> we Muslims definitly are imperfect.
> > >>-> Hope you happy now. Robin ++
> > >>->
> > >>->
> > >>-> gailani
> >
> >
> > >>-Errr.. Not really, my question was not about Muslims, but about
> > >>-Islam. SO let us know if you think Islam - the Quran and the sayings
> > >>-and life of the Prophet are imperfect. Also could you tell us
> > >>-what specifically is wrong.
> >
> > >>-Thank You
> >
> > >>-Robin
> >
> > Robin, answer is there, all you need is just
> > look real close , you will find it. I know you are
> > smart enough.
> >
> > rgds,
> >
> > gailani
> >
> Gailani:
>
> Bear with me and spell it out! Say "Islam is imperfect" and MORE
>
> IMPORTANTLY please indicate in what way.
>
> Thanks
>
> Robin
>
>
Gailani, Hinduism is imperfect.
The FRIENDLY netter
Now after looking into the SATANIC verses, which are words of
SATAN that have crept into QURAN, we will look into other
inconsistencies of quran.
The quran has one thing called doctrine of abrogatoin. What it
means is that some verses of quran has overriding effect over the other
verses. It means that some verses of QURAN were true at some point of
time, but later they were abrogated and are not true any more. The
question then arises-What is the guarantee that rest of the QURAN is
also true and need not be abrogated. But as a matter of fact, all quran
is bogus, and needs to be abrogarted.
I am surprised that no muslims is willing to talk about SATANIC
VERSES and DOCTRINE OF ABROGATION.
Those intellectuals who are secular in thinkig, will do well to ask
islamic scholars to explain these two points: SATANIC VERRSES, and
DOCTRINE of ABROGATION. More important to an average muslims are these
questions than to a Mullah. The average muslims should ask these
questions to their mullahs.
1.How to distinguis the difference between words of God ( which
actually never was there for any revelations) and words of SATAN.?
2. How to make sure that no more abrogations are going to happen in
QURAN?
REgards,
Friendly netter.
In <Pine.GSO.3.95.970129...@panther.Gsu.EDU> Babar
The FRIENDLY netter
Ranjit Mathews Piravonu
> To Ranjit,
>
> Just because you are a pagan that follows a rather
> low form of idolitary even now in 1997, you don't don't have to go on
> ends to try and prove otherwise about muslims. We detest the garbage
> that you follow. Meanwhile lets talk about religeous prostitution(
> devadasi) and suttee( bride burning). Disgusting!! Worry about your
> own dirty laundry before you start trying to make others look like
> yourself!
Okay, if you insist.
The Devadasi institution is traditionally traced back to the Saiva-
Agamas. Devadasis were singers and dancers at temples. They were
also invited to sing at weddings. In the early 1900s, Anglicized
Indians, brainwashed by Christian moralizingalong with a party of
avowed anti-Hindu Britishers had temple dancing banned in spite
of the spirited resistance offered by courageous devadasis such as
Balasarawati and a stalwart E. Krishna Iyer. During In the 70s
Fredrique Marglin, an anthropologist who studied Indian dance, visited
India and wrote a borained her four adopted daughters in music and
dance, but married them to high caste husband instead of dedicating
them as devadasiok about the last remaining temple devadasis of the
Jagannath Temple at Puri. Amrapalli of Puri's Jagannath Temple trained
her four adopted daughters in music and dance, but married them to
high caste husbands. The fourth she married to a devadasis son.
--
Ranjit Mathews ran...@swdc.stratus.com
2065 Hamilton Ave 408-559-5371
San Jose, CA 95125-5905 www.stratus.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
mis...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
In article <5cc0l8$9...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> bab...@ix.netcom.com(The FRIENDLY netter) writes:
>
> Illusioned Muslims: Here is the full quote;
>
> " Muslims are the first victim of Islam. Many Times I have observed
>in my travels in the Orient, that fanaticism comes from a small number
>of dangerous men who maintain others in the practice of religion by
>terror. To liberate the Muslims from his religion is the best service
>one can render him" - E. Renan
> I was interested in a serious discussion and I asked one questions
>to Muslims, What is meaning of SATANIC VERSES ? Any muslims willing to
>reply.
If you want to know about "Satanic Verses", then look up the same book
you got this quote from. Ibn Warraq did a great service by writing that
book (despite its flaws), but it's too bad that Hindu bigots like
yourself have gotten their hands on it too.
Mohammad Noorul Islam
Gailani
Babar Rasheed Khan <gs0...@panther.Gsu.EDU>
wrote:
>>-On 25 Jan 1997, robin wrote:
>>-> sy...@laker.net ( Gailani) wrote:
>>-> >
>>-> > robin <ro...@pe.net> wrote:
>>-> >
>>-> > >>-sy...@laker.net ( Gailani) wrote:
>>-> > >>-
>>-> > >>-> we Muslims definitly are imperfect.
>>-> > >>-> Hope you happy now. Robin ++
>>-> > >>->
>>-> > >>->
>>-> > >>-> gailani
>>-> >
>>-> >
>>-> > >>-Errr.. Not really, my question was not about Muslims, but about
>>-> > >>-Islam. SO let us know if you think Islam - the Quran and the sayings
>>-> > >>-and life of the Prophet are imperfect. Also could you tell us
>>-> > >>-what specifically is wrong.
>>-> >
>>-> > >>-Thank You
>>-> >
>>-> > >>-Robin
>>-> >
>>-> > Robin, answer is there, all you need is just
>>-> > look real close , you will find it. I know you are
>>-> > smart enough.
>>-> >
>>-> > rgds,
>>-> >
>>-> > gailani
>>-> >
>>-> Gailani:
>>->
>>-> Bear with me and spell it out! Say "Islam is imperfect" and MORE
>>->
>>-> IMPORTANTLY please indicate in what way.
>>->
>>-> Thanks
>>->
>>-> Robin
>>->
>>->
>>- Gailani, Hinduism is imperfect.
@@@ really , nah you must be kidding Bhaee
Babar,
Anyway why should we really care.
It appeals them that is but fine with me as long
as they don't overstep my belief and dictate
theirs to me.
peace,
gailani
mis...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
In article <5cqeiq$s...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> bab...@ix.netcom.com(The FRIENDLY netter) writes:
>
[crappy polemics deleted]
May I offer two pieces of advice?
1. Try concentrating on cleaning your own house first. I hope you show the same vigor in
condemning Sati, caste system, monkey gods, cow goddesses, etc. etc.
2. Try reading something more than hostile literature to learn about Islam. Right now
you come across as a fool, and your "arguments" (basically parrotting ) come across as
shallow.
Mohammad Noorul Islam
mis...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
In article <5c9fn6$3...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> bab...@ix.netcom.com(The FRIENDLY netter) writes:
> I am not taking of what an Islmic Apologist writes about the islam.
>If you really want to read islam, read the original Quran to understand
>it.
Babu man (or maybe homo erectus),
Coming from someone whose only source of argument is plagiarism from
Warraq's admittedly hostile book, your comment takes chutzpah to a
new level.
Mohammad Noorul Islam
Al Aab
the satanic verses is a very seious, fundamental incident
that happened to mohamed during his early stay in mecca (before hijra).
rumour has it
that mohamed had a meeting with the aristocracy of Qureish/mecca (abu
leheb, abu sufian, etc)
poor mohamed was intimidated by the well-dressed aristocracy.
mohamed was taken aback, & reached an agreement with them.
to support that agreement, mohamed recited some fresh quran verses.
mohamed, supposedly, bowed to the idols,
the rest of the aristocracy joined him in that worship act.
later on, mohamed, realizing what his blunder
took back those quranic verses,
sheepishly apologizing that they were not from gabriel
but from satan.
hence the name: the satanic verses.
if that saga were true
then the implications are serious
&
casts a big, dark shadow on all of mohamed, quran & islam
quran says that allah protects quran
=
inna, neHno, nezzelna ez zikr
we inna, leho, leHafizoon.
sounds like a contradiction, if that rumour were true.
an ex muslim, salman rushdie, apparently, does not like self-contradictory
religions. he did not like that dark shadow.
salman rushdie converted to atheism
in his satatnic verses book,
salman rushdie insults all relgions, esp islam
(the religion he studied best, he was raised in an indian/muslim
wealthy family. his family could afford him a good education (cambridge ?))
Vivek Chopra (viv...@india.hp.com) wrote:
: Mohammad Ahmad wrote:
--
=-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
al aab, seders moderator sed u soon
it is not zat we do not see the s o l u t i o n
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
Javaid Wani
Hay bastyard:
I already emailed you my response. I once again warn you and want you to
take this listing out, otherwise I will fuck your mother's ASS as soon as
I get you. I am not going to leave you and I will make this world a living
hell for you. Further, you donot want to see your sister getting fucked on
streets. Mind your language you bastard.
P.S.: If you wish I can spare you and will sent you a humble request to
take the listing off. Let me know?
In article <5cqeiq$s...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>,
bab...@ix.netcom.com(The FRIENDLY netter) wrote:
> >> >> I was interested in a serious discussion and I asked one
> >> questions
> >> >> to Muslims, What is meaning of SATANIC VERSES ? Any muslims
> willing
> >> to
> >> >> reply.
> >> >>
> >> >Ranjit Mathews
ran...@swdc.stratus.com
>
> >> >2065 Hamilton Ave 408-559-5371
> >> >San Jose, CA 95125-5905 www.stratus.com
> >>
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ---
> >>
> >>
> >>
Javaid Wani
Duxe
In article <Wani-04029...@159.14.42.16> Wa...@A1.mscf.upenn.edu (Javaid Wani) writes:
>Hay bastyard:
>I already emailed you my response. I once again warn you and want you to
>take this listing out, otherwise I will fuck your mother's ASS as soon as
>I get you. I am not going to leave you and I will make this world a living
>hell for you. Further, you donot want to see your sister getting fucked on
>streets. Mind your language you bastard.
>
>
>P.S.: If you wish I can spare you and will sent you a humble request to
>take the listing off. Let me know?
>
shadaaaaaap.
Vivek Rachalwar
Oh, don't mind javahid. His mouth and ass were accidently put in each
others places.
jho...@ix.netcom.com
Someone, anyone, please help me!!!
I am an architecture student and my final project focuses in on India. I am supposed to design a
space that celebrates somesort of event (please suggest) and the food that is made for the event
(please suggest again) for a specific area. I know India is very diverse and I don't know where to
start. I was thinking of focusing in on marriages, but most of the examples of architecture that I
have found typically involve tombs and death. Is this coinsidence, or does Indian culture revolve
around death? It would be very, Very, VERY helpful to me if you could cite some good sources for
me, or tell me an interesting bit of folklore or fairy tale (please specify the time, region, & city if you
can), I need recipes for traditional foods, some do's and don'ts of various customs, info on
traditional symbols (like color and shapes) and their meanings, and maybe what it means to you to
be an Indian. I also need to consider music in this whole picture as well. If you have time, please
help me in any way, shape, or form possible. Thank you so very much!!!
Jhoana
Architorture Student
Dave , Rajeshkumar
After reading satanic versese
i also think the same.
Gailani
"Dave , Rajeshkumar "
<osic...@trpo6.tr.unisys.com> wrote:
>>-After reading satanic versese
>>- i also think the same.
All satans adore satanic verses, so said Salaman
Rushdi but did you read his other book on
Hinduism. Please give us your views on that too
if you won't mind.
gailani
islamic
I am warning people like Ranjit Matthews once and once for all. Don't
make obscene remarks about our religion, first look at yourself! People
worshipping dolls and cows in 1997... poainting houses with cow shit and
what not. I don't want to insult you if you refrain from making such
statements. Your religion, i.e. hinduism even encourages child
prostitiution. Please note the follwing quote in Newsweek: (3 Feb 97)
"we offered him pure cow milk, and we were pleased
he took two sips"Shayam Bahadur Singh, resident
of the rural Indian village of Nunkhar, where hot
-air baloonist Steve Fosset touched down after
setting a new record for distance and endurance.
His silver baloon was mistaken by many for a
floating temple carrying the Hindu Monkey god
HANUMAN"
HAIL ISLAM! Condemn Hiundu and Islamic fanatics.
Javaid Wani
Dear Mr Robin:
Your statement may be true. However the "subject: Quran is.....God" is
highly of fensive. I belive you donot want to hurt the feelings of fellow
human beings. I request you to take this listing out of the NewsWatcher.
Sincerely
Javaid Wani
TGI - Trade Gate International LLC
Javaid Wani wrote:
> > > *Every* religion is imperfect, insomuch as religion is a human device,
> > > and humans are imperfect.
Religion is brought to us by ->GOD so it can't be imperfect, what is
imperfect
is human interpretation of religion; or had I understand wrong?...
Kunal Singh
In article <32FF11...@falseaddress.com> islamic <isl...@falseaddress.com> writes:
.. stuff deleted ..
"we offered him pure cow milk, and we were pleased
he took two sips"Shayam Bahadur Singh, resident
of the rural Indian village of Nunkhar, where hot
-air baloonist Steve Fosset touched down after
setting a new record for distance and endurance.
His silver baloon was mistaken by many for a
floating temple carrying the Hindu Monkey god
HANUMAN"
Quite an interesting mistake as Hanuman's flight described in the
Ramayana is quite similar to that of a hot-air baloon!
But regardless, being offered milk even out of superstition is not
that bad, considering that followers of Islam in Saudi Arabia would
probably have locked him up if they had found him carrying even a
Bible! Of course if they had mistaken him for a non-Islamic deity,
they would have probably destroyed him with his balloon as Islam seems
to declare non-Islamics infidels.
estella
i was really offended by the article posted by some "islamic" with no name
given to identify himself/herself. This article was written in retaliation
by a Muslim condemning Hinduism. He said that hindus worship cows and
dolls. Well the truth is that we don't worship cows..we just venerate them
and hold them in high esteem
as animals that are forbidden for consumption....and please ..we hindus
don't worship dolls...no one knows how God looks like ....we just create
statues to remind us of GOd so that it is easier for us to worship Him by
looking at him ....which if u realise helps u to focus on god and makes
prayer more meaningful
and personalized . It may seem a weird concept to u muslims ...but to us ,
we feel that we do not care what u think about our so called "idols" so
long as we feel that our dear GOD has heard our prayer and knows our inner
thoughts and understands our feelings...we do not need to explain our need
to feel god in a personalized way ..as a human form which we can most
relate to ....unlike the muslims who have not even seen their GOD and do
not even know how He looks like ..
Also, i was very offended when this ignorant person said that Hinduism
encourages child prostitution ..to a person as ignorant as u ..i have
nothing to say ......except the fact that u desperately need some education
on Hindu religious texts to enlighten your ignorant self ...before u make
statements like this...
Let us not comdemn any religion ....creed or culture ...for God is a
Universal concept ...and he is one and the same to every human ..regardless
of religion.
Kunal Singh
In article <32FF79...@tg-i.com> TGI - Trade Gate International LLC <tg...@tg-i.com> writes:
.. stuff deleted ..
Javaid Wani wrote:
If religion is brought to a person by God in the form of words subject
to interpretation, then why such an imprecise format ? Isn't that
God's or the Prophet's fault ? If God had wanted these words to be
ingrained in every human being, wouldn't they all be part of his
instinct ? Of course if God had been all powerful, there would be no
Devil or Shaitan and the "perfect" religion would be the "rta" of the
world. Or perhaps that is the way it is!
Second of all what is a "perfect" religion, "perfect" as judged by
whom ? Could it be that we have so many "imperfect" religions because
they don't quite cater to each and every followers' desires ? Could
it be that those who don't accept the nature of the Brahman consider
it imperfect due to their own secret desires for how it could have
been or how it should have been ?
Shiva is the Brahman. He is creation, and many desiring such see it
as the result of the "goodness" of angels and God. He is destruction,
and many desiring to avoid such, see it as the work of the Devil. And
yet Shiva just keeps dancing, he is one man's angel and the other
man's devil. The followers of imperfect religions are his critics,
they find many faults in his dance. And yet the fault lies in their
ignorance for Shiva always dances perfectly, indeed he is the only
definition of perfection.
Arif Ahmad
nnyxsi@swap31-236 (Kunal Singh) wrote:
>.. stuff deleted ..
> Javaid Wani wrote:
Shiva is far from perfection, he is a stank piece of shit like all
other hindu bastards. Go fuck your idols while I pray to god fuck
face.
Vivek Rachalwar
you said :
HAIL ISLAM! Condemn Hiundu and Islamic fanatics.
They used to say
HAIL HITLER! Condemn jews and anyone else
See the similarity, you islamic moron !!!
Ranjit Mathews Piravonu
Arif Ahmad wrote:
>
> Shiva is far from perfection, he is a stank piece of shit like all
> other hindu bastards. Go fuck your idols while I pray to god fuck
> face.
Shhhh, Mohammed is listening. He'll tell Allah what what you called
him. If you want to get your quota of houris and young boys, you
might want to apologize.
--
Ranjit Mathews ran...@swdc.stratus.com
2065 Hamilton Ave 408-559-5371
San Jose, CA 95125-5905 www.stratus.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahmet Ekrem SABAN
Javaid Wani <Wa...@A1.mscf.upenn.edu> schrieb im Beitrag
<Wani-10029...@159.14.42.16>...
> > >>
> > > *Every* religion is imperfect, insomuch as religion is a human
device,
> > > and humans are imperfect.
>
Prophet Muhammad is the Prophet of this only existing God, and that the
Holy Qur'an is the Word of God. Such proof was the impetus for Western
thinkers to start what they call theophilosophy today.
If you mean with "religion" also the jurisprudence, interpretation of the
scholars, political system, etc. (which is part of the Islamic ideology),
you are right stating that it is somehow "human". And as humans may err,
these errors will be introduced as the right to the religion - as it is the
case when a scholar gives a wrong fatwa...
Best regards -
Ahmet Ekrem SABAN
Hardware/Software Designer
A-2500 Baden, Kaiser Franz-Ring 40/5
(++43-2252) 82 471
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Ahmet Ekrem SABAN (e872...@stud2.tuwien.ac.at) wrote:
: >
: There is rational argumentation proof that there is only one God, the
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Prophet Muhammad is the Prophet of this only existing God, and that the
: Holy Qur'an is the Word of God. Such proof was the impetus for Western
: thinkers to start what they call theophilosophy today.
I will be interested in knowing more about this proof. Could you please
post it? It will be helpful if you first write your assumptions and then
your proof.
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
N. Tiwari
: <Wani-10029...@159.14.42.16>...
: > In article <5cmki1$6...@nntp.pe.net>, robin <ro...@pe.net> wrote:
: >
: > > Prem Thomas <pre...@qed.net> wrote:
: > > >>
: > > > *Every* religion is imperfect, insomuch as religion is a human
: device,
: > > > and humans are imperfect.
: There is rational argumentation proof that there is only one God, the
: Holy Qur'an is the Word of God. Such proof was the impetus for Western
: thinkers to start what they call theophilosophy today.
Please tell me more about this proof of yours.
--
Nachiketa Tiwari
Harish
On
> I am warning people like Ranjit Matthews once and once for all. Don't
> make obscene remarks about our religion, first look at yourself! People
> worshipping dolls and cows in 1997... poainting houses with cow shit and
> what not. I don't want to insult you if you refrain from making such
> statements. Your religion, i.e. hinduism even encourages child
> prostitiution. Please note the follwing quote in Newsweek: (3 Feb 97)
>
> "we offered him pure cow milk, and we were pleased
> he took two sips"Shayam Bahadur Singh, resident
> of the rural Indian village of Nunkhar, where hot
> -air baloonist Steve Fosset touched down after
> setting a new record for distance and endurance.
> His silver baloon was mistaken by many for a
> floating temple carrying the Hindu Monkey god
> HANUMAN"
>
> HAIL ISLAM! Condemn Hiundu and Islamic fanatics.
This is a warning to all those who retaliate hatred with hatred.
Simply because one person chose to abandon the philosophy of Hinduism and
sought to malign another human being's faith does not mean that this is
the opinion shared by all Hindus. I assure all, that I am one among many
who have the utmost respect for Islam. However, retaliatory remarks laden
withsuchhatred as in the case of the lines above are those which only
perpetuate the animosity. Let us all refrain from making obscene remarks
regardless of whether they were retaliatory or provacatory. We all know
that they are hurtful (and most often, if not always, untrue). On that
note, I extend an olive branch which I hope will be received AND
reciprocated by all.
Javaid Wani
You mother fucker. Will you shut up and delete this listing and
particularly my name. If not I will place a listing which, I am sure, you
will not like.
I am watching you bastard. Get your ass out as soon as possible.
Will talk further: You will determine the language you want me to use.
In article <fik9od7tff.fsf@swap31-236>, nnyxsi@swap31-236 (Kunal Singh) wrote:
> In article <32FF79...@tg-i.com> TGI - Trade Gate International LLC
<tg...@tg-i.com> writes:
>
> .. stuff deleted ..
>
> Javaid Wani wrote:
>
> > > > *Every* religion is imperfect, insomuch as religion is a human
device,
> > > > and humans are imperfect.
>
Ranjit Mathews Piravonu
Harish wrote:
>
> This is a warning to all those who retaliate hatred with hatred.
> Simply because one person chose to abandon the philosophy of Hinduism and
> sought to malign another human being's faith does not mean that this is
> the opinion shared by all Hindus. I assure all, that I am one among many
> who have the utmost respect for Islam. However, retaliatory remarks laden
> perpetuate the animosity. Let us all refrain from making obscene remarks
> regardless of whether they were retaliatory or provacatory. We all know
> that they are hurtful (and most often, if not always, untrue). On that
> note, I extend an olive branch which I hope will be received AND
> reciprocated by all.
>
are
a great soul, a Mahatma. You might say that these are but the sentiments
of one person, but if that is so why don't the other 999,999,999
denounce
them ? (I daresay if The Friendly Nettor averred that whoever gives up
Hinduism should be killed, even the most right wing Hindutwadis would
flame
him to a crisp).
Freedom of belief
The messenger of Allah (SAW) said: "whoever changes his deen, kill him".
Freedom of opinion
As this would also include the freedom to proclaim and spread kufr, this
idea is also forbidden in Islam.
rafay
Harish wrote:
>
> On
> Mon, 10 Feb 1997, islamic wrote:
>
> > I am warning people like Ranjit Matthews once and once for all. Don't
> > make obscene remarks about our religion, first look at yourself! People
> > worshipping dolls and cows in 1997... poainting houses with cow shit and
> > what not.
i donot know about painting of houses with cow dung but i have seen cow
dung plastered on the outside walls of many many houses in villages in
pakistan.
srk
Kunal Singh
In article <5e573i$g...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> zai...@ix.netcom.com(Arabela Arifovic) writes:
Koran is nothing but a cheap plagiarism of the Torah!
I think it is time for all these brain-washed idiots to learn the real
history of Islam and Mohammed. Mohammed was perhaps the least perfect
man that ever lived amongst the most barbaric people that were in
existent at the time. Amongst any civilized people he would not have
qualified as a prophet but more as a dacoit.
The people of Mohammed were the Bedouins of Saudi Arabia. The
Bedouins were a most barbaric people even by 600 AD. Their life was
largely a nomadic one, travelling from one spot to another in the
desert, their marriages temporary, with dancing girls going from one
tent into the next. Their hygiene was pathetic, they considered camel
urine to be "hair tonic."
Mohammed largely grew up in poverty raised by his uncle until he
matured enough to work for a wealthy widow. Not surprisingly, he
ended up marrying this wealthy widow who was considerably older than
him after a few years. And this would be the start of his rather
ambitious career. At the time there were many deities and jinns in
the deserts among them was Allah. He claimed to hear voices in a cave
that told him he was the messenger of Allah and was said to have
certain seizures that some have found quite similar to epileptic
seizures. Eventually he decided that there was no God other than the
deity "Allah."
He tried to preach the message of Allah but was driven from Mecca into
Medina. In Medina he became a ruler and engaged in raiding caravans
that were proceeding to Mecca. The Prophet shared in the spoils of
the raids and gradually increased his power. He had several Jewish
dissidents assasinated. He had one female poet stabbed while she
slept because she had written a satirical poem about him. He had
several other people assasinated and encouraged such assasinations by
his followers. The Jews naturally turned against him. He plagiarized
their Torah to come up with the Koran though he was quite illiterate
and the Jews had earlier laughed at his interpretations of their
religious literature. So all Muslims who claim that their Mullahs are
somehow mis-interpreting the Koran to encourage violence are largely
ignorant. And all Muslims looking for a great philosophy in the Koran
are likely to be disappointed and should look to the Torah and the
Jews instead. Settling philosophical dissent by assasinations seems
to be a rather early tradition in Islam established and encouraged by
the Prophet himself.
Gradually, he was able to conquer Mecca but his conquest would not
stop there. He would proceed to conquer Syria and Persia. The
conquest and the zeal of his soldiers was fueled by more than their
love for Allah. The Prophet who had many wives including the young
Aisha promised each of his soldiers women in the conquered
territories. So when the Bedouin soldiers came back from Syria, they
described how beautiful the women of the region were and this
naturally resulted in more men enlisting to wage war against Syria.
At least one decent Arab soldier decided to give up his rights to a
Syrian woman who had been promised to him by the Prophet. And there
is evidence of women being forced to marry these soldiers as the woman
had grudgingly accepted the soldier with the statement that he had
seen her only in her youth and not realized that youth does not last
forever.
Likewise, Persia fell quite easily to the Arabs. The Bedouin soldiers
who conquered Persia had never seen gold before. Some of them used to
routinely exchange gold for silver. Camphor was used as cooking salt.
One aristocratic woman was sold by a soldier for a 1000 or 10,000
silver pieces and when someone expressed surprise at this, the soldier
responded that he had never known that it was possible to have a
number great than ten hundred.
So the empire itself was conquered and consolidate by material and
sexual motivations. The soldiers were motivated by the desire for
wealth and women. The many women they married and the many children
they bred ensured consolidation amongst the conquered people.
The man Mohammed himself was an interesting character. He heard a few
divine voices when he wanted to marry another beautiful woman. Many
decisions of the state were made on the basis of these divine voices.
He wore a ring with the inscription "Mohammed the messenger of Allah."
He had many concubines but had a strong preference for the young Aisha
whom he had married at seven or nine. Enamoured by this Aisha,
perhaps worried that after his death she may marry another, he once
asked Aisha whether it wouldn't be better if she died before him and
could be buried alongside him. To which Aisha responded that if she
died before him, he would probably replace her with another!
So there you have the man called Mohammed and his deity called Allah
and his empire of Islam. Only amongst the most barbaric could an
illiterate man with very little in terms of philosophy, prone to
killing when opposed even philosophically, could rise to the status of
a prophet. Only amongst the most barbaric people could a man so
motivated by lust, who encouraged such lust in his soldiers for his
own personal gains, could ever be considered even religious. Only
amongst the most barbaric people could such a man convince those he
had conquered that he had taken their wealth and their women to bring
them the message of Allah. So should one be surprised if the Islamic
Mullahs insist that Muslims be educated only in the Islamic tradition
and never be made aware of their real history ?
ghen...@khan.u-net.com
On 18 Feb 1997 11:00:11 -0500, nnyxsi@swap31-236 (Kunal Singh) wrote:
>-->Koran is nothing but a cheap plagiarism of the Torah!
Wow! What incisive deduction! Is it 12 - o clock???
[deleted the rest of the 'fevourish' drivel] :-)
Kunal Singh
In article <Wani-17029...@159.14.42.16> Wa...@A1.mscf.upenn.edu (Javaid Wani) writes:
You mother fucker. Will you shut up and delete this listing and
particularly my name. If not I will place a listing which, I am sure, you
will not like.
I am watching you bastard. Get your ass out as soon as possible.
Will talk further: You will determine the language you want me to use.
Shut up and stop claiming that I have fucked your mother! I couldn't
care less about your language as you're as ignorant as your mlecchas
species! Anything you list won't be worth reading. Here's more
history of Islam to counter the wild claims of philosophy and
tolerance made by some on this net.
Raza
I think posting it once was enough,
why waste the bandwidth
Iman Lam
Dear sir,
Sorry to reply your letter impolitely. But I hope you don't get
mad. I was almost burst to laugh when I read your comment below. How can
Mohammad tell Allah about things if he himself is not in heaven. Everyday
you moslem always pray 5 times for his salvation. 'know why? Because he
ain't there yet. He's rotten in hell. If you want to believe he's in
heaven, for God's sake, stop praying for him.
Zafaryab Khan
In article <Pine.GSO.3.94.970219171939.10189D-100000@suntan>,
Iman Lam <il...@eng.usf.edu> wrote:
>Dear sir,
> Sorry to reply your letter impolitely. But I hope you don't get
>mad. I was almost burst to laugh when I read your comment below. How can
>Mohammad tell Allah about things if he himself is not in heaven. Everyday
>you moslem always pray 5 times for his salvation. 'know why? Because he
>ain't there yet. He's rotten in hell. If you want to believe he's in
>heaven, for God's sake, stop praying for him.
>
>
I apologize if it sounds like a rude question, but are you on an excursion
from hell? Else how do you know about the current occupants?
What else did you do when you "almost burst to laugh". Sign up for a
lesson in English grammer? :)
regards...
Richard
Hey Arabela which do you worship ahmadi..?
Arabela Arifovic <zai...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<5e573i$g...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>...
>
>
Chairul Bahri
Assalamo alaikum wa rahmatullah:
I hope the writer below has read some introduction to Islam and the
history of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be
upon him).
Kunal Singh wrote:
>
> In article <5e573i$g...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> zai...@ix.netcom.com(Arabela Arifovic) writes:
>
> Koran is nothing but a cheap plagiarism of the Torah!
>
When you compare between the two carefully, any reasonable man will find
differences in principles between the two. What I mean by the Torah
is Pentateuch or the five books of Moses in the Old Testament printed
these days.
1) The description of patriarchs/prophets of God in Genesis is far from
piety. One got drunk and intercoursed with his own daughter. One
hid his own wife and told she was his sister. One was accused to lead
or at least did not prevent the Israelite to worship the golden calf.
And the list can go on and on ...
However, the Prophet (PBUH) taught Muslims based in Quranic teachings
that all prophets are sinless. Noah, Abraham, Aaron, are pious and
examples for their people.
2) Quran says that Pharaoh finally believed in God and prayed to Him
when he realized that he would drowned. But it was too late for him,
but God protected his body as the sign for the future mankind. (See
10:90-92.)
Torah is silent about it. No clue whatsoever.
3) Quran mentions that the Israelites who migrated (because of fear
of the presecution of Pharaoh) were thousands.
Torah says a couple or more millions.
How could this number of people in gathering were afraid of the
Pharaoh's troops. Please get real!
> I think it is time for all these brain-washed idiots to learn the real
> history of Islam and Mohammed. Mohammed was perhaps the least perfect
> man that ever lived amongst the most barbaric people that were in
> existent at the time. Amongst any civilized people he would not have
> qualified as a prophet but more as a dacoit.
>
Aha ... There were and are so many scholars having deep love in him.
There were Muslim scholars who introduced Science and Medicine to the
Middle/Dark Age Europeans. They were the people who not only bridged
the Ancient Greco-Roman civilization, not only bridged the European
and Chinese, Indian civilizations, but gave the universalism of Science
and introduced the concept of Unity which is universal.
If they were not civilized, they were better because they recognized
their predecessors.
> The people of Mohammed were the Bedouins of Saudi Arabia. The
> Bedouins were a most barbaric people even by 600 AD. Their life was
> largely a nomadic one, travelling from one spot to another in the
> desert, their marriages temporary, with dancing girls going from one
> tent into the next. Their hygiene was pathetic, they considered camel
> urine to be "hair tonic."
>
But the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) transformed them into very high
spiritual human beings which even low creatures, not to mention
humankind, thanked them. They became full of love of the Creator.
> Mohammed largely grew up in poverty raised by his uncle until he
> matured enough to work for a wealthy widow. Not surprisingly, he
> ended up marrying this wealthy widow who was considerably older than
> him after a few years. And this would be the start of his rather
> ambitious career. At the time there were many deities and jinns in
> the deserts among them was Allah. He claimed to hear voices in a cave
> that told him he was the messenger of Allah and was said to have
> certain seizures that some have found quite similar to epileptic
> seizures. Eventually he decided that there was no God other than the
> deity "Allah."
>
Allah is God, God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus. There was not such idol
under this name. Non of the idols had that name. Have you heard about
Prameshvara? Do you find any idols with the name of Prameshvara?
> He tried to preach the message of Allah but was driven from Mecca into
> Medina. In Medina he became a ruler and engaged in raiding caravans
> that were proceeding to Mecca. The Prophet shared in the spoils of
> the raids and gradually increased his power. He had several Jewish
> dissidents assasinated. He had one female poet stabbed while she
> slept because she had written a satirical poem about him. He had
> several other people assasinated and encouraged such assasinations by
> his followers. The Jews naturally turned against him. He plagiarized
> their Torah to come up with the Koran though he was quite illiterate
> and the Jews had earlier laughed at his interpretations of their
> religious literature. So all Muslims who claim that their Mullahs are
> somehow mis-interpreting the Koran to encourage violence are largely
> ignorant. And all Muslims looking for a great philosophy in the Koran
> are likely to be disappointed and should look to the Torah and the
> Jews instead. Settling philosophical dissent by assasinations seems
> to be a rather early tradition in Islam established and encouraged by
> the Prophet himself.
>
I am sorry to say that you should read the history again.
> Gradually, he was able to conquer Mecca but his conquest would not
> stop there. He would proceed to conquer Syria and Persia. The
> conquest and the zeal of his soldiers was fueled by more than their
> love for Allah. The Prophet who had many wives including the young
> Aisha promised each of his soldiers women in the conquered
> territories. So when the Bedouin soldiers came back from Syria, they
> described how beautiful the women of the region were and this
> naturally resulted in more men enlisting to wage war against Syria.
> At least one decent Arab soldier decided to give up his rights to a
> Syrian woman who had been promised to him by the Prophet. And there
> is evidence of women being forced to marry these soldiers as the woman
> had grudgingly accepted the soldier with the statement that he had
> seen her only in her youth and not realized that youth does not last
> forever.
>
Bring your proofs.
> Likewise, Persia fell quite easily to the Arabs. The Bedouin soldiers
> who conquered Persia had never seen gold before. Some of them used to
> routinely exchange gold for silver. Camphor was used as cooking salt.
> One aristocratic woman was sold by a soldier for a 1000 or 10,000
> silver pieces and when someone expressed surprise at this, the soldier
> responded that he had never known that it was possible to have a
> number great than ten hundred.
>
Bring your proofs.
> So the empire itself was conquered and consolidate by material and
> sexual motivations. The soldiers were motivated by the desire for
> wealth and women. The many women they married and the many children
> they bred ensured consolidation amongst the conquered people.
>
I am sorry to say that your imagination and desire goes to the degree
that you attribute it wrongly.
> The man Mohammed himself was an interesting character. He heard a few
> divine voices when he wanted to marry another beautiful woman. Many
> decisions of the state were made on the basis of these divine voices.
> He wore a ring with the inscription "Mohammed the messenger of Allah."
> He had many concubines but had a strong preference for the young Aisha
> whom he had married at seven or nine. Enamoured by this Aisha,
> perhaps worried that after his death she may marry another, he once
> asked Aisha whether it wouldn't be better if she died before him and
> could be buried alongside him. To which Aisha responded that if she
> died before him, he would probably replace her with another!
>
The Prophet (PBUH) did NOT have any concubines. Even Krishna was
believed to have many wives. Not to mention Abraham.
> So there you have the man called Mohammed and his deity called Allah
> and his empire of Islam. Only amongst the most barbaric could an
> illiterate man with very little in terms of philosophy, prone to
> killing when opposed even philosophically, could rise to the status of
> a prophet. Only amongst the most barbaric people could a man so
> motivated by lust, who encouraged such lust in his soldiers for his
> own personal gains, could ever be considered even religious. Only
> amongst the most barbaric people could such a man convince those he
> had conquered that he had taken their wealth and their women to bring
> them the message of Allah. So should one be surprised if the Islamic
> Mullahs insist that Muslims be educated only in the Islamic tradition
> and never be made aware of their real history ?
How an unlettered man, like Muhammad (PBUH), was able (and is able
thru Quran and his teachings and examples) to transform illiterate,
barbaric people into divinely, cultured, civilized nation? He taught
them how to communicate with God, establish strong relationship with
Him. He taught how to eat, how to speak, how to act toward family, and
even tiny petty things as well.
And of course, one cannot take the Mullahs as examples these days
because the Prophet (PBUH) himself already prophecied that these Mullahs
are the worst creature on earth which are spreading hatred and
allegation; and of course it would return to them.
But do not put yourself into trouble by accusing such Perfect Man based
on the action of the people who claimed to be his followers but do not
follow his steps.
Please visit
http://www.alislam.org
and if you have any concerns and questions why don't you ask with open
mind?
Wassalam,
--
Chairul Bahri
e-mail: ba...@physics.utoronto.ca
Syed Shah
>And of course, one cannot take the Mullahs as examples these days
>because the Prophet (PBUH) himself already prophecied that these Mullahs
>are the worst creature on earth which are spreading hatred and
>allegation; and of course it would return to them.
Where is this prophecy??
Sunil Sethi
Hi there,
This is an interesting reply. Firstly you are of course quite incorrect in
your views and let me tell you why.
We have never worshiped idols for a start, in fact they are deities. This
material world was created because of our original sin and this is ENVY OF
GOD. We wanted to be the enjoyers of everything and wanted to lord it over
the spritual world and didn't want to have a loving relationship with God.
God loves us all equally and so he created this material world. This body
is known as the "field" meaning the sensory field through which we meaning
the realself "soul" can interact with the material world. Matter and sprite
can not interact directly. We falsely identify ourselves with the body
thinking we are Hindu, Muslim, black, white, etc. In fact the name of the
faith is not Hinduism it is Sanatum Dharma meaning Eternal Servants of God.
We all belong to this one faith and our consitutional position in spriutal
matters is that we ALL ARE GOD'S ETERNAL SERVANTS.
False ego meaning the misidentification with the body and not with God
makes people think we are Hindu's Muslims, etc. We are not that at all.
We do not worship the cow or any animals at all. The cow reminds us of Sri
Krishna, who is God. Krishna means the ALL ATTRACTIVE PERSON, THE ORIGINAL
PERSON, he is without a begining or an end, he has always been, he is the
father of all of us. Krishna incarnated taught us to protect the cows and
ALL beings.
You to are his servant if you believe in God, Allah is just another name
for God. He has many names.
The problem with Hindus is that they are Hindu and not followers of Dharma
and tend to speculate about God. They have no interest in knowing him, nor
do they know much about the Vedic culture. Hinduism is a distored view of
the Vedas. The secular society of India is really a society that has no
faith or knowledge and hence is unable to answer any questions with regards
to the faith.
Hunman is the Eternal Servant of Sri Ram who is the original person meaning
God. Hunman is not worshipped as God but in the real sense he is a good
example of a surrendered soul who loves God and serves him with complete
devotion and love.
Krishna means the All Attractive person and Ram means the All Compassionate
person. Sri Ram appeared to teach us by example how to be a good ruler of
the people, who to live a good family life and how to act in a rigtheous
manner.
Indians of modern India are rascals who have no desire to live a life
according to the Vedas, there God is western culture and the acceptance of
false religious principles. No wonder people like yourself misunderstand
the faith.
In the Gita Lord Krishna warns people not to worship anyone but him. The
verse chapter 9. 25 says ...
"Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those
who worship the ancestors go to the ancestors; those who worship ghosts and
sprites will take birth among such beings; and those who worship Me will
live with me".
Most Indian/Hindus worship demigods because they want material gain, they
are always asking for favours, give me this give me that. They are greedy
they can't think that every thing they have will be taken away from them at
death, in this way they continue to take birth after birth. They have no
love of God but only of their material needs, they have forgotten who they
really are.
God allows us to worship him as a deity as long as we follow the rules. The
deity of Sri Krishna is non-different to him, providing we follow the
rules to make and install the deity. Why deity worship ? Because in this
age of Kali yuga (the age of ignorance and falsehood), the Lord appears
before us as the deity so that we could build a loving relationship with
him. How can you love a person if you can't see them ? This is the mercy of
Krishna.
Further the Lord says "Offer me a flower, water and grains with love and
devotion and I shall accept them". Note no eggs, meat, fish etc.
Those who do not offer before part taking of a meal are eating sin it is
written.
I hope that you can see the difference between the corrupted version of
Dharma which Hindus follow and the truth. Every being is the servant of God
no matter how much they say they are not, that includes you and I.
Regards,
Sunil
islamic <isl...@falseaddress.com> wrote in article
<32FF11...@falseaddress.com>...
> I am warning people like Ranjit Matthews once and once for all. Don't
> make obscene remarks about our religion, first look at yourself! People
> worshipping dolls and cows in 1997... poainting houses with cow shit and
Sunil Sethi
Arif,
You are the true face of Islam, uncivilsed. How was your mother,
grandmother, great grand mother, great great grand mother ? which one was
raped to produce a muslim family of the future ?
Sunil
Arif Ahmad <su...@deez.nutz> wrote in article
<5dt71t$r...@news.inforamp.net>...
Sunil Sethi
Dear Mr. Khan,
Please tell me are you on a trip from heaven that you know he is their?
The person may not speak English well but he is intelligent enough to know
the truth. It does not require good English.
Sunil
Zafaryab Khan <zk...@login1.fas.harvard.edu> wrote in article
<5egau2$e6u$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu>...
Zafaryab Khan
In article <01bc2802$9731cc00$0f11868b@gopi>,
Sunil Sethi <sse...@onaustralia.com.au> wrote:
>Dear Mr. Khan,
>
>Please tell me are you on a trip from heaven that you know he is their?
>
>The person may not speak English well but he is intelligent enough to know
>the truth. It does not require good English.
>
>Sunil
I did not claim to have the "factual" information of the fate of anyone
good or bad(unlike Mr Lam). He claimed something that no one COULD know.
I merely asked what his source was...
I was also making a point against denigrating other people's religions
based
on unverified statements.
That brings us to the next question. Do YOU Mr Sunil, in all fairness KNOW
the "truth"(regardless of your intelligence or linguistic capability)?
Zafar
>
>Zafaryab Khan <zk...@login1.fas.harvard.edu> wrote in article
><5egau2$e6u$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu>...
>> In article <Pine.GSO.3.94.970219171939.10189D-100000@suntan>,
>> Iman Lam <il...@eng.usf.edu> wrote:
>> >Dear sir,
>> > Sorry to reply your letter impolitely. But I hope you don't get
>> >mad. I was almost burst to laugh when I read your comment below. How can
>> >Mohammad tell Allah about things if he himself is not in heaven.
>Everyday
>> >you moslem always pray 5 times for his salvation. 'know why? Because he
>> >ain't there yet. He's rotten in hell. If you want to believe he's in
>> >heaven, for God's sake, stop praying for him.
>> >
>> >
>> Dear Mr Lam
>> I apologize if it sounds like a rude question, but are you on an
>excursion
>> from hell? Else how do you know about the current occupants?
>> What else did you do when you "almost burst to laugh". Sign up for a
>> lesson in English grammar? :)
pgg...@computer.net
There are NO absolute truths vis a vis religion: as Bentham said, all
things being equal, push pin is as good as poetry. The problem with every
bigoted fundamentalist is that HE knows all the answers and everyone who
does not follow or agree is a kaffir: if we can only leave it well alone,
this world will be hell of a lot better.
The Koran is the word of God for some, the Gita is for others and
both are right or niether is or someone else is. What scares me is that
bigots KNOW that they are right and they act out their fantasies.
Peace, Gopal