question
Grant
SJR
Life is a tragedy for those who feel,
and a comedy for those who think.
___________________________
http://www.rusling.mcmail.com
___________________________
Grant wrote in message <_Vly2.9$A%.384@news.connectnet.com>...
>is masturbation sinful?
Well, we can't have had this question in, oh, two weeks now?
But, we don't mind.
I take it you mean from a Christian point of view.
Ok, my answer would be this: yes. It's a form of sin.
However, a more moderate answer would be: it depends. It depends on what
your mind is thinking. Basically, if your wanking over [the image of]
someone then it's wrong. If you're doing it just to relieve tension, then
it's okay.
In my oppinion, you should cut down no matter what your thoughts are.
Sam
Steven Schrader
> is masturbation sinful?
Well, it seems most Christians seem to think so. Probably due to that
whole bit about lusting for people in your heart..
Later,
---
Steven Schrader
The Musician's Homepage - "http://www.enteract.com/~digialex/"
"Pooh knew what he meant, but, being a Bear of Very Little Brain,
couldn't think of the words." - The House at Pooh Corner
Kevin R.
Why cut down?
>
> Sam
--
---
Kevin "Woohoo I finally made a sig" Rowe
kmr...@onebellevue.com
"Early bird gets the cheese
but the second mouse gets the worm.
No, wait.." - K.R. 1998
vszulc
Grant skrev i meddelelsen <_Vly2.9$A%.384@news.connectnet.com>...
>is masturbation sinful?
>
We already covered that one didnt we ? ;)
MiSSY
>
>Why cut down?
Cuz it will make you go blind
SJR
Life is a tragedy for those who feel,
and a comedy for those who think.
___________________________
http://www.rusling.mcmail.com
___________________________
>
>
>SJR wrote:
>>
>> ___________________________
>> Life is a tragedy for those who feel,
>> and a comedy for those who think.
>> ___________________________
>> http://www.rusling.mcmail.com
>> ___________________________
>> >is masturbation sinful?
>> Well, we can't have had this question in, oh, two weeks now?
>> But, we don't mind.
>> I take it you mean from a Christian point of view.
>> Ok, my answer would be this: yes. It's a form of sin.
>> However, a more moderate answer would be: it depends. It depends on what
>> your mind is thinking. Basically, if your wanking over [the image of]
>> someone then it's wrong. If you're doing it just to relieve tension, then
>> it's okay.
>> In my oppinion, you should cut down no matter what your thoughts are.
>
>Why cut down?
We aren't meant to be wrapped in the material world, but we're meant to have
a mind towards the spiritual.
We are not meant to be serving ourselves, but serving the Lord. As such, IMO
masturbation doesn't fit in.
Sam
Felix Theonugraha
sinful at all. Think about it this way, why would God give us pleasure from
sexual things if it's a sin. That's rather cruel of him, don't you think?
That is not the case. God intend for sex to be the most powerful thing
human kind has. God intended sex to be the thing that gives life. It is a
very powerful, and pleasurable thing. Masturbation, I believe, is a method
to experience this pleasure when one is not ready yet to give life to
another human being, and cannot take responsibility for that human being.
There is a point in which masturbation becomes a sin, and that is when
masturbation becomes addictive, that the thought of it occupies your mind to
the point that you cannot do anything else. However, if that is not the
case, I don't think it's a sin, and I'll explain that later. Another way
that masturbation is a sin is if we use graphical materials, porno magazine,
movies, etc, to masturbate.
The following is what I learned from the book "20 Hot Potatoes Christians
are afraid to touch" I don't have the book w/ me, so I'm just saying what I
learned from it.
A lot of people has cited Biblical references to show that masturbation is
wrong. One of the popular one is the citation of one guy in the Old
Testament who chooses to "spill his seeds (semen) onto the ground" and God
was angry and the guy was not able to give life anymore. Many people point
to this as a support that masturbation is wrong. This is not true, because
the guy was actually having sexual intercourse when he decide to pull out
prematurely and spill his semen onto the ground. I'm sorry I refer to him
as "the guy" and am not citing Biblical references...but it's 3:23 in the
morning and I'm ready to sleep...I'll give them to you later.
Another Bible passage that people refer to is Jesus's teaching that say that
if we have lust after a woman in our mind, then we have committed adultery.
I must admit this is a play on word, but I believe that when Jesus said
lust, he means that we have decided we want the girl we are lusting for, and
proceeded to approach her, and have sex with her. With this, it is really
easy to see why once we decided in our mind, we have committed adultery,
because once we decide, we will carry out. However, such is not the case in
masturbation..or at least i hope not. If you picture someone in your mind,
or imagine something while masturbating, then proceed to carry out your
imagination, then yes, masturbation is a sin. however, Jesus himself said
that we will have temptation in this world. If we are tempted to commit
adultery with such and such and get aroused, and masturbated, but we do not
carry out our thoughts, then we have not sin. Jesus himself was tempted by
Satan, and because he did not give in, he did not sin.
As you can see, I'm still a little rough on the support for the issue, but
I'm learning more and more about it, and I definitely would say that
masturbation is not a sin.
Steven Schrader
> >Why cut down?
> Cuz it will make you go blind
Grows hair on your palms too. And if your mother sees you she may fall
down and end up in the hospital. So stay away from Glamour magazine!!
Dyland Desmarais
>
> is masturbation sinful?
Hope this helps . . .
Dyland
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Masturbation—How Serious Is It?
“I’m wondering if masturbation is wrong in the eyes of God. Will it
affect my physical and/or mental health in the future and if I ever get
married?”—Fifteen-year-old Melissa.
THESE thoughts have plagued many youths. The reason? Masturbation is
widespread. Reportedly, some 97 percent of males and more than 90
percent of females have masturbated by the age of 21. Furthermore, this
practice has been blamed for all manner of ills—from warts and red
eyelids to epilepsy and mental illness.
Twentieth-century medical researchers no longer make such alarming
claims. Indeed, doctors today believe that no physical illness is caused
by masturbation. Researchers William Masters and Virginia Johnson add
that “there is no established medical evidence that masturbation,
regardless of frequency, leads to mental illness.” Nevertheless, there
are other ill effects! And many Christian youths are rightly concerned
about the practice. “When I gave in to [masturbation], I’d feel as if I
were failing Jehovah God,” wrote one youth. “I got seriously depressed
sometimes.”
Just what is masturbation? How serious is it, and why do so many youths
find it to be a habit that is hard to break?
Why Youths Are Vulnerable
Masturbation is deliberate self-stimulation to produce sexual arousal.
During the bloom of youth, sexual desires become strong. Powerful
hormones are released that affect the reproductive organs. A youth thus
becomes aware that these organs are capable of producing pleasurable
sensations. And sometimes a youth may become sexually excited without
even thinking about sex.
For instance, the tensions produced by various worries, fears, or
frustrations can affect a boy’s sensitive nervous system and cause
sexual arousal. A buildup of semen may in turn cause him to awaken
sexually excited. Or it may produce a nocturnal emission, usually
accompanied by an erotic dream. Similarly, some young girls may find
themselves stimulated unintentionally. Many have a heightened sexual
desire just before or after their menstrual period.
So if you have experienced such arousal, there is nothing wrong with
you. This is a normal response of a youthful body. Such sensations, even
if very intense, are not the same as masturbation, since they are
largely involuntary. And as you grow older, the intensity of these new
sensations will subside.
Curiosity and the novelty of these new sensations, though, lead some
youths deliberately to manipulate, or play with, their sexual organs.
‘Mental Fuel’
The Bible describes a young man who meets a promiscuous woman. She
kisses him and says: “Do come, . . . let us enjoy each other with love
expressions.” Then what happens? “All of a sudden he is going after her,
like a bull that comes even to the slaughter.” (Proverbs 7:7-22)
Obviously, this youth’s passions were aroused not simply because his
hormones were at work but because of what he saw and heard.
Similarly, one young man admits: ‘The root of my whole problem with
masturbation boiled down to what I put in my mind. I would watch TV
programs that included immorality and in some cases watch programs on
cable TV that would show nudity. Such scenes are so shocking that they
stay with you. They would surface again in my mind, providing the mental
fuel needed to engage in masturbation.’
Yes, often it is what one reads, watches, or listens to, as well as what
one talks about or meditates on, that triggers masturbation. As one
25-year-old woman confessed: “I just couldn’t seem to stop the habit.
However, I used to read romance novels, and this contributed to the
problem.”
A “Tranquilizer”
This young woman’s experience reveals what is undoubtedly the greatest
reason why the habit can be so hard to break. She continues: “Usually I
masturbated to release pressure, tension, or anxiety. That fleeting
pleasure was like the drink the alcoholic takes to calm his nerves.”
Researchers Suzanne and Irving Sarnoff write: “For some people
masturbation may become a habit to which they turn for solace whenever
they are rebuffed or feel apprehensive about something. Others, however,
may withdraw in this way only occasionally, when they are under the most
acute emotional stress.” Evidently, others similarly resort to the habit
when upset, depressed, lonely, or under much stress; it becomes a
“tranquilizer” to blot out their troubles.
What Does the Bible Say?
A youth asked: “Is masturbation an unforgivable sin?” Masturbation is
not mentioned at all in the Bible. The practice was common in the
Greek-speaking world during Bible times, and several Greek words were
used to describe the practice. But not one of these words is used in the
Bible.
Since masturbation is not directly condemned in the Bible, does this
mean it is harmless? Absolutely not! Though it is not classed with such
gross sins as fornication, masturbation is surely an unclean habit.
(Ephesians 4:19) The principles of God’s Word thus indicate that you
“benefit yourself” by strongly resisting this unclean habit.—Isaiah
48:17.
Arousing “Sexual Appetite”
“Deaden, therefore, your body members,” urges the Bible, “as respects .
. . sexual appetite.” (Colossians 3:5) “Sexual appetite” refers not to
normal sexual feelings but to passion that is out of control. Such
“sexual appetite” can thus lead to one’s indulging in gross acts, as
described by Paul at Romans 1:26, 27.
But does not masturbation “deaden” these desires? No, on the contrary,
as one youth confessed: “When you masturbate, you dwell mentally on
wrong desires, and all that does is increase your appetite for them.”
Often an immoral fantasy is used to increase the sexual pleasure.
(Matthew 5:27, 28) Therefore, given the right circumstances, one could
easily fall into immorality. This happened to one youth, who admits: “At
one time, I felt that masturbation could relieve frustration without my
getting involved with a female. Yet I developed an overpowering desire
to do so.” He committed fornication. Not surprisingly, a nationwide
study revealed that the majority of adolescents who masturbated were
also committing fornication. They outnumbered those who were virgins by
50 percent!
Mentally and Emotionally Defiling
Masturbation also instills certain attitudes that are mentally
corrupting. (Compare 2 Corinthians 11:3.) When masturbating, a person is
immersed in his or her own bodily sensations—totally self-centered. Sex
becomes separated from love and is relegated to a reflex that releases
tension. But God intended that sexual desires be satisfied in sexual
relations—an expression of love between a man and his wife.—Proverbs
5:15-19.
A masturbator may also tend to view the opposite sex as mere sex
objects—tools for sexual satisfaction. Wrong attitudes taught by
masturbation thus defile one’s “spirit,” or dominant mental inclination.
In some cases, the problems caused by masturbation persist even after
marriage! For good reason, God’s Word urges: “Beloved ones, let us
cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit.”—2
Corinthians 7:1.
A Balanced View of Guilt
Many youths, though generally successful in overcoming this bad habit,
occasionally give in to it. Fortunately, God is very merciful. “For you,
O Jehovah, are good and ready to forgive,” said the psalmist. (Psalm
86:5) When a Christian succumbs to masturbation, his heart is often
self-condemning. Yet, the Bible states that “God is greater than our
hearts and knows all things.” (1 John 3:20) God sees more than our sins.
The greatness of his knowledge enables him to hear with sympathy our
earnest pleas for forgiveness. As one young woman wrote: “I have felt
guilty to an extent, but knowing what a loving God Jehovah is and that
he can read my heart and know all my efforts and intentions keeps me
from feeling too depressed when I fail on occasion.” If you fight the
desire to masturbate, it is not likely that you will commit the serious
sin of fornication.
The September 1, 1959, issue of The Watchtower stated: “We [may] find
ourselves stumbling and falling many times over some bad habit that has
bitten more deeply into our former pattern of life than we had realized.
. . . Do not despair. Do not conclude you have committed the
unforgivable sin. That is just how Satan would like you to reason. The
fact that you feel grieved and vexed with yourself is proof in itself
that you have not gone too far. Never weary of turning humbly and
earnestly to God, seeking his forgiveness and cleansing and help. Go to
him as a child goes to his father when in trouble, no matter how often
on the same weakness, and Jehovah will graciously give you the help
because of his undeserved kindness and, if you are sincere, he will give
you the realization of a cleansed conscience.”
How can that “cleansed conscience” be attained?
[Footnotes]
God executed Onan for ‘wasting his semen on the earth.’ However,
interrupted intercourse, not masturbation, was involved. Furthermore,
Onan was executed because he selfishly failed to perform brother-in-law
marriage in order to continue his deceased brother’s family line.
(Genesis 38:1-10) What of the “emission of semen” mentioned at Leviticus
15:16-18? This apparently refers, not to masturbation, but to a
nocturnal emission as well as to marital sexual relations.
Masturbation—How Can I Fight the Urge?
“IT IS a very strong addiction,” said a young man who struggled with
masturbation for over 15 years. “It can be just as habit forming as any
drug or alcoholic beverage.”
The apostle Paul, however, did not let his desires become like a harsh
master. On the contrary, he wrote: “I pummel my body [fleshly desires]
and lead it as a slave.” (1 Corinthians 9:27) He got tough with himself!
A similar effort will enable anyone to break free from masturbation.
“Prepare Your Minds for Action”
Many masturbate to relieve tension and anxiety. Masturbation, though, is
a childish way to react to problems. (Compare 1 Corinthians 13:11.)
Better it is to show “thinking ability” and attack the problem itself.
(Proverbs 1:4) When problems and frustrations seem overwhelming, “throw
all your anxiety upon [God].”—1 Peter 5:6, 7.
Suppose you accidentally see or hear something that is sexually
stimulating? The Bible recommends: “Prepare your minds for action; be
self-controlled.” (1 Peter 1:13, New International Version) Exert your
mind and reject the immoral thought. The arousal will soon die down.
Rejecting bad thoughts is especially difficult, though, when one is
alone at night. One young woman advises: “The best thing to do is get
right out of bed and get busy with some type of work, or maybe have a
little snack, so that your mind turns to other things.” Yes, force
yourself to ‘consider whatever things are of serious concern, righteous,
chaste, lovable, well spoken of.’—Philippians 4:8.
When you have difficulty falling asleep, endeavor to imitate faithful
King David, who wrote: “When I have remembered you [God] upon my lounge,
during the night watches I meditate on you.” (Psalm 63:6) Forcing your
mind to ponder on God and his qualities will often break the spell. It
also helps if you keep thinking of how God views this unclean
habit.—Psalm 97:10.
Take Preventive Measures
“Shrewd is the one that has seen the calamity and proceeds to conceal
himself, but the inexperienced have passed along and must suffer the
penalty,” wrote the inspired wise man. (Proverbs 22:3) You can show
yourself shrewd by exercising forethought. For example, if you find that
engaging in certain activities, wearing tight-fitting clothing, or
eating certain foods has caused you to become sexually stimulated, then
by all means avoid such. Alcoholic drinks, for example, can lower one’s
inhibitions and make self-control harder. Also, avoid like the plague
any reading matter, TV programs, or movies with sensuous themes. “Make
my eyes pass on from seeing what is worthless,” prayed the
psalmist.—Psalm 119:37.
Preventive measures can also be taken for those times when you are
particularly vulnerable. A young woman may find that her sexual desires
become more intense at certain times of the month. Or one may be
emotionally hurt or depressed. “Have you shown yourself discouraged in
the day of distress? Your power will be scanty,” warns Proverbs 24:10.
So avoid being alone for long periods of time. Plan upbuilding
activities that will keep your mind involved in challenging
undertakings, giving it less opportunity to gravitate toward immoral
thoughts.
A Spiritual Offensive
A 27-year-old man who had struggled with the habit since he was 11 was
finally able to gain the victory. “It was a matter of going on the
offensive,” he explained. “I read the Bible, at least two chapters every
single day without exception.” He has done this without fail for over
three years. Advises yet another Christian: “Before going to bed, read
something related to spiritual things. It is very important that the
last thought of the day be a spiritual one. Prayer at this time is also
extremely helpful.”
“Having plenty to do in the work of the Lord,” such as the work of
teaching others the Bible, also helps. (1 Corinthians 15:58) One woman
who overcame masturbation stated: “One thing that now really helps me to
avoid this habit is that as a full-time evangelizer my mind and energies
are all turned toward helping others to gain an approved relationship
with God.”
By heartfelt prayer, you can also beg God for “the power beyond what is
normal.” (2 Corinthians 4:7) “Before him [God] pour out your heart.”
(Psalm 62:8) One young woman says: “Prayer is an instant tower of
strength. Praying at the time the desire arises definitely helps.” Also,
upon rising and throughout the day, express your resolve to God and
plead for his strengthening holy spirit.—Luke 11:13.
Help From Others
If your personal efforts are not successful, speak to someone who can
help, such as a parent or a Christian elder. Young women may find it
helpful to confide in a mature Christian woman. (Titus 2:3-5) One young
man who was at the point of despair said: “I talked privately with my
father one evening about it.” He revealed: “It took everything I had to
tell him. I cried as I told him, I was so ashamed. But I’ll never forget
what he said. With a reassuring smile on his face, he said: ‘You make me
so proud of you.’ He knew what I had to go through to get to that point.
No words could have lifted my spirits and determination more.
“My father then showed me a few scriptures to help me see that I was not
‘too far gone,’” continued the youth, “and then some more scriptures to
be sure I understood the seriousness of my wrong course. He said to
‘keep the slate clean’ until a certain time, and we would discuss it
again then. He told me not to let it crush me if I relapsed, just go a
longer period of time without giving in the next time.” After overcoming
the problem fully, the young man added: “Having someone else aware of my
problem and helping me was the greatest benefit.”
Dealing With a Relapse
After working hard to overcome the habit, one youth suffered a relapse.
He admitted: “It was like a crushing weight on me. I felt so unworthy. I
then rationalized: ‘I’m too far gone. I don’t have Jehovah’s favor
anyhow, so why be tough on myself?’” However, a relapse does not mean
that one has lost the fight. One 19-year-old girl recalls: “At first it
happened about every night, but then I began relying on Jehovah more,
and with the help of his spirit I now only fail maybe six times a year.
I feel very bad afterward, but each time I fail, when the next
temptation comes, I’m much stronger.” So gradually she is winning her
fight.
When a relapse occurs, analyze what led up to it. One youth says: “I
review what I have been reading or thinking about. Almost always I can
pinpoint the reason I slipped. This way I can stop doing that and
correct it.”
The Rewards of a Good Fight
Said one youth who overcame masturbation: “Since overcoming the problem,
I can keep a clean conscience before Jehovah, and that is something that
I wouldn’t trade for anything!”
Yes, a good conscience, an improved sense of self-worth, greater moral
strength, and a closer relationship with God are all rewards of a good
fight against masturbation. Says one young woman who finally overcame
masturbation: “Believe me, the victory over this habit is well worth the
effort put forth.”
Pornography—Habit-Forming and Dangerous!
“Pornography is everywhere: you walk down the street—there it is
displayed openly on newsstands,” recalled 19-year-old Ronald. “Some of
our teachers would bring it to school, reading it at their desks while
waiting for the next class.” Yes, many people of various ages,
backgrounds, and educational levels are avid readers of pornography. A
youth named Mark said: “When I read girlie magazines and viewed the
photographs it was exciting! . . . I looked forward to new issues of
these magazines because going through ones I had finished didn’t give me
the same flush of excitement. It’s habit-forming.” But is it a good
habit?
Pornography has an overwhelming message: ‘Sex is purely for
self-gratification.’ Much of it is saturated with rape and sadistic
violence. Many viewers soon find that “milder” forms (soft-core) are no
longer stimulating and so they seek out pictures or movies that are even
more obscene! As Ernest van den Haag, an assistant professor at New York
University, said: “Pornography invites us to perceive others only as
pieces of meat, as objects of exploitation for the sake of our own
sensations of pleasure.”
Pornography further presents a warped, idolized view of sex that often
leads to marital problems. Says one young wife: “Reading pornography
caused me to desire with my husband the abnormal things portrayed in the
books. This led to constant frustration and a letdown sexually.” A 1981
survey was conducted among several hundred women regarding the effects
of pornography on their rapport with the men in their lives who read it.
Nearly one half reported that it caused serious problems. It actually
destroyed some marriages or engagements. One wife lamented: “I can only
assume by [my husband’s] need and desire for sexual release with
pornography that I am inadequate . . . I wish to God I were a woman who
could satisfy him, but he prefers plastic and paper and his need has
destroyed a part of me. . . . Pornography is . . . anti-love . . . It is
ugly, cruel and destructive.”
Of greatest concern to Christian youths, however, is the fact that
pornography directly works against one’s efforts to be clean in God’s
sight. (2 Corinthians 6:17–7:1) The Bible shows that “because of the
insensibility of their hearts” some in ancient times came “to be past
all moral sense” and “gave themselves over to loose conduct to work
uncleanness of every sort with greediness.” (Ephesians 4:18, 19) Would
you want to experience such corruption? Remember, even an occasional
indulgence in pornography can have a desensitizing effect on one’s
conscience. It has led some young Christians to masturbation and, worse
yet, sexual immorality. The wise thing, then, is to work hard to stay
free from pornography.
“Many times pornography is in my direct line of sight,” says young
Darryl. “So I am forced to see it at first glance; but I don’t have to
look a second time.” Yes, refuse to look where it is openly displayed,
and refuse to allow classmates to goad you into looking at it. As
18-year-old Karen reasoned: “As an imperfect person it is difficult
enough trying to keep my mind on things that are chaste and
praiseworthy. Would it not be all the more difficult if I deliberately
read pornography?”
Information taken from the "Young People Ask book: Questions that work"
published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
jbarr08
Felix Theonugraha wrote in message <7ae9s3$1o6$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>...
>
>Grant wrote in message <_Vly2.9$A%.384@news.connectnet.com>...
>>is masturbation sinful?
>>
>well, contrary to most of the posts here, I don't think masturbation is
>sinful at all.
I agree in general, but disagree in specific...
<snip>
>Another way
>that masturbation is a sin is if we use graphical materials, porno
magazine,
>movies, etc, to masturbate.
How is this different than the illustration you used about fantisizing later
on?
<snip>
>Another Bible passage that people refer to is Jesus's teaching that say
that
>if we have lust after a woman in our mind, then we have committed adultery.
>I must admit this is a play on word, but I believe that when Jesus said
>lust, he means that we have decided we want the girl we are lusting for,
and
>proceeded to approach her, and have sex with her.
You cannot determine that from what He said. If Jesus said that if you lust
after a woman, you have committed adultry with her, then it must be what he
meant. If he meant that it only became a sin when you acted upon her, then
I have to believe He would have said that.
> With this, it is really
>easy to see why once we decided in our mind, we have committed adultery,
>because once we decide, we will carry out. However, such is not the case
in
>masturbation..or at least i hope not. If you picture someone in your mind,
>or imagine something while masturbating, then proceed to carry out your
>imagination, then yes, masturbation is a sin. however, Jesus himself said
>that we will have temptation in this world. If we are tempted to commit
>adultery with such and such and get aroused, and masturbated, but we do not
>carry out our thoughts, then we have not sin. Jesus himself was tempted by
>Satan, and because he did not give in, he did not sin.
Jesus said, "In this world you will have trouble, but take heart, I have
overcome the world". What Paul said was "No temptation has seized you
except that which is common to man. And God is faithful, He will not allow
you to be tempted beyond what you can bear" When you experience temptation
in the form of lust or desire (we yanks call it "having blue balls") and you
masturbate, utilizing the fantasy in your mind, then you have sinned. You
haven't done what Jesus did. Jesus held up under temptation and never
yielded to it. We yield all the time, and masturbation is one way that we
sell out.
>
>As you can see, I'm still a little rough on the support for the issue, but
>I'm learning more and more about it, and I definitely would say that
>masturbation is not a sin.
>
Just my two cents...
Jason
Christopher Nelson
>
> is masturbation sinful?
*starts violent hissing and great destruction*
*calms down*
If it invovles lust, then yes.
--
Christopher Nelson resides at: inlawsandoutlaws at mindspring dot com,
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
[The more things change, the more they remain the same.]
-- Alphonse Karr, "Les Guepes"
Steven Schrader
> Grant wrote:
> >
> > is masturbation sinful?
>
> *starts violent hissing and great destruction*
> *calms down*
> If it invovles lust, then yes.
Now we just have to figure out what lusts means. :)
From a non-C standpoint, I don't see what the problem is with fantasizing
about a woman. I think problems are more likely to arise when you become
obsessive about it.
People have erotic dreams, are those sinful as well? If so, how is one
expected to stop them?
Christopher Nelson
>
> On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Christopher Nelson wrote:
>
> > Grant wrote:
> > >
> > > is masturbation sinful?
> >
> > *starts violent hissing and great destruction*
> > *calms down*
> > If it invovles lust, then yes.
>
> Now we just have to figure out what lusts means. :)
>
> From a non-C standpoint, I don't see what the problem is with fantasizing
> about a woman. I think problems are more likely to arise when you become
> obsessive about it.
I dunno about non-Christian standpoints, from thier I don't think
there's any problem.
> People have erotic dreams, are those sinful as well? If so, how is one
> expected to stop them?
I do not believe those are sinful due to their uncontrollable nature.
Nick...
SJR wrote:
>
> *snipped web pages and header junk*
> >> >is masturbation sinful?
> >> Well, we can't have had this question in, oh, two weeks now?
> >> But, we don't mind.
> >> I take it you mean from a Christian point of view.
> >> Ok, my answer would be this: yes. It's a form of sin.
> >> However, a more moderate answer would be: it depends. It depends on what
> >> your mind is thinking. Basically, if your wanking over [the image of]
> >> someone then it's wrong. If you're doing it just to relieve tension, then
> >> it's okay.
> >> In my oppinion, you should cut down no matter what your thoughts are.
> >
> >Why cut down?
> As a Christian you're meant to be holy. That means set appart.
> We aren't meant to be wrapped in the material world, but we're meant to have
> a mind towards the spiritual.
> We are not meant to be serving ourselves, but serving the Lord. As such, IMO
> masturbation doesn't fit in.
Also, cutting down provides less oppurtunity for Satan to get at you
when weak.
Nick
"Si tu mangeais autant de nourriture qu'un chameau,
est-ce que deux bosses pousseraient sur ton dos?"
- français proverbes
MiSSY
>Grows hair on your palms too. And if your mother sees you she may fall
>down and end up in the hospital. So stay away from Glamour magazine!!
stick to Highlights if I were you.
Karen Hi
pleasure in those thoughts,it is as though you sinned.
Karen Hi
SJR
Life is a tragedy for those who feel,
and a comedy for those who think.
___________________________
http://www.rusling.mcmail.com
___________________________
>
>
>SJR wrote:
>>
>> *snipped web pages and header junk*
>> >> >is masturbation sinful?
>> >> Well, we can't have had this question in, oh, two weeks now?
>> >> But, we don't mind.
>> >> I take it you mean from a Christian point of view.
>> >> Ok, my answer would be this: yes. It's a form of sin.
>> >> However, a more moderate answer would be: it depends. It depends on
what
>> >> your mind is thinking. Basically, if your wanking over [the image of]
>> >> someone then it's wrong. If you're doing it just to relieve tension,
then
>> >> it's okay.
>> >> In my oppinion, you should cut down no matter what your thoughts are.
>> >
>> >Why cut down?
>> As a Christian you're meant to be holy. That means set appart.
>> We aren't meant to be wrapped in the material world, but we're meant to
have
>> a mind towards the spiritual.
>> We are not meant to be serving ourselves, but serving the Lord. As such,
IMO
>> masturbation doesn't fit in.
>
>Also, cutting down provides less oppurtunity for Satan to get at you
>when weak.
Shame I didn't think of it!
(c:
Sam
Steven Schrader
> Yes,friend,it is if you are having thoughts of doing sin,and taking
> pleasure in those thoughts,it is as though you sinned.
Hey Karen, you really should quote the bits that you are responding to.
Makes it hard to follow what you're talking about otherwise..
Steven Schrader
Am I the only one here that watches Seinfeld? :)
mich pharm
Steven Schrader <digi...@enteract.com> ate pie and then in an attempt to
converse sputtered in a sprinkle of crumbs...
>On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, MiSSY wrote:
>
>> >Grows hair on your palms too. And if your mother sees you she may fall
>> >down and end up in the hospital. So stay away from Glamour magazine!!
>
>> Glamour mag-?What kind of pervert masturbates with glamour magazine!? I'd
>> stick to Highlights if I were you.
>
>Am I the only one here that watches Seinfeld? :)
>
haha, I remember that episode, it was great.
--
mich
"sometimes i punch myself... hard as i can
yelling 'nobody cares!' hoping someone will
tell me how wrong i am"
-bff
Blade
SJR wrote in message <7afcnc$704$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>...
Do you remember when I told you that repressing the sexdrive is a bad idea?
Guess what, this is complete repression of the sex drive (I.e. not having
sex or playing with yourself to relive them). I can't remember where I heard
the story, but apparently in the dark ages, monks would go insane and start
raping people and playing with themselves and such. Now, how does this fit
in with what I told you eh?
Blade: Hey, solo sex should be the favoured alternative to sex outside
marriage for the religiously inclined IMO.
Comparing religion to science is like comparing a molehill to a mountain!
Change .con to demon<dot>co<dot>uk to send mail.
SJR
Life is a tragedy for those who feel,
and a comedy for those who think.
___________________________
http://www.rusling.mcmail.com
___________________________
<919887218.4684.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
Yeah, I still don't agree. I know people who have it repressed well. If you
just stop, then yeah there will be bad effects. If you cut it down, you can
change. I guess it varies from person to person though. Anyway, I said "cut
down", I didn't say never. If you need to to relieve yourself, then okay,
but if you're just doing it for pleasure then it's not so good.
>Blade: Hey, solo sex should be the favoured alternative to sex outside
>marriage for the religiously inclined IMO.
Favoured, yes. Still, it shouldn't be overused (abused).
Sam
Blade
SJR wrote in message <7b23hu$a58
<snip>
>>Do you remember when I told you that repressing the sexdrive is a bad
idea?
>>Guess what, this is complete repression of the sex drive (I.e. not having
>>sex or playing with yourself to relive them). I can't remember where I
>heard
>>the story, but apparently in the dark ages, monks would go insane and
start
>>raping people and playing with themselves and such. Now, how does this fit
>>in with what I told you eh?
>
>Yeah, I still don't agree. I know people who have it repressed well. If you
>just stop, then yeah there will be bad effects. If you cut it down, you can
>change.
When i say repressing i mean not doing it just to clariy that.
>I guess it varies from person to person though. Anyway, I said "cut
>down", I didn't say never. If you need to to relieve yourself, then okay,
>but if you're just doing it for pleasure then it's not so good.
Man are you zealots on a guilt trip or what? This kind of view must have
been put forward from someone who felt really guilty about sex i tell you.
Just as another point, telling your children that sex is sinful and dirty
does serious damage to their relationships in laterlife, when even when they
are in a situation you would aprove of sex, they still feel dirty and guilty
if they do it and try to avoid it, just putting strain on their relation
ship and causeing them to break up. I just hope you bear this in mind when
you start telling your children about sex, never infer it is a bad thing,
and you will then end up with a well adjusted child. (When they are in their
teens and old enough to start experimenting then you can tell them your
views, but also remember not to push your veiws oin them either, its up to
them).
Blade
Blade
Dyland Desmarais wrote in message <34E9AEC4...@home.com>...
>
>THESE thoughts have plagued many youths. The reason? Masturbation is
>widespread. Reportedly, some 97 percent of males and more than 90
>percent of females have masturbated by the age of 21.
The other 3% are probably lying for the males (probably that is, i can't
prove it).
Furthermore, this
>practice has been blamed for all manner of ills—from warts and red
>eyelids to epilepsy and mental illness.
>Twentieth-century medical researchers no longer make such alarming
>claims. Indeed, doctors today believe that no physical illness is caused
>by masturbation. Researchers William Masters and Virginia Johnson add
>that “there is no established medical evidence that masturbation,
>regardless of frequency, leads to mental illness.”
Nevertheless, there
>are other ill effects!
Oh, kindly enlighten us to the other ill affects?
And many Christian youths are rightly concerned
>about the practice. “When I gave in to [masturbation], I’d feel as if I
>were failing Jehovah God,” wrote one youth. “I got seriously depressed
>sometimes.”
Poor adjustment example here. The fault of the stress here lies with
religion for condeming a completely harmless practice.
>Just what is masturbation? How serious is it, and why do so many youths
>find it to be a habit that is hard to break?
It relives sexual tensions without an affair, it is a habit because your
body requires such stimulation for a stable mentality.
>
>Why Youths Are Vulnerable
>
>Masturbation is deliberate self-stimulation to produce sexual arousal.
>During the bloom of youth, sexual desires become strong. Powerful
>hormones are released that affect the reproductive organs. A youth thus
>becomes aware that these organs are capable of producing pleasurable
>sensations. And sometimes a youth may become sexually excited without
>even thinking about sex.
>For instance, the tensions produced by various worries, fears, or
>frustrations can affect a boy’s sensitive nervous system and cause
>sexual arousal. A buildup of semen may in turn cause him to awaken
>sexually excited. Or it may produce a nocturnal emission, usually
>accompanied by an erotic dream. Similarly, some young girls may find
>themselves stimulated unintentionally. Many have a heightened sexual
>desire just before or after their menstrual period.
>So if you have experienced such arousal, there is nothing wrong with
>you. This is a normal response of a youthful body. Such sensations, even
>if very intense, are not the same as masturbation, since they are
>largely involuntary. And as you grow older, the intensity of these new
>sensations will subside.
>Curiosity and the novelty of these new sensations, though, lead some
>youths deliberately to manipulate, or play with, their sexual organs.
And the problem is?
>
>‘Mental Fuel’
>
>The Bible describes a young man who meets a promiscuous woman. She
>kisses him and says: “Do come, . . . let us enjoy each other with love
>expressions.” Then what happens? “All of a sudden he is going after her,
>like a bull that comes even to the slaughter.” (Proverbs 7:7-22)
Oh yeah, masterbation will kill you, sure!
>Obviously, this youth’s passions were aroused not simply because his
>hormones were at work but because of what he saw and heard.
>Similarly, one young man admits: ‘The root of my whole problem with
>masturbation boiled down to what I put in my mind. I would watch TV
>programs that included immorality and in some cases watch programs on
>cable TV that would show nudity. Such scenes are so shocking that they
>stay with you.
Again, poor adjustment to reality, god help (expression, not belief) that
person when they get into a true sexual relationship, they will see far more
"shocking" things then.
>They would surface again in my mind, providing the mental
>fuel needed to engage in masturbation.’
>Yes, often it is what one reads, watches, or listens to, as well as what
>one talks about or meditates on, that triggers masturbation.
Triggers? its not like it is some involountary reflex, although it is
natural to want that kind of stimulation.
As one
>25-year-old woman confessed: “I just couldn’t seem to stop the habit.
>However, I used to read romance novels, and this contributed to the
>problem.”
How is it a problem, you fail to assert why it is so far.
>
>A “Tranquilizer”
>
>This young woman’s experience reveals what is undoubtedly the greatest
>reason why the habit can be so hard to break. She continues: “Usually I
>masturbated to release pressure, tension, or anxiety. That fleeting
>pleasure was like the drink the alcoholic takes to calm his nerves.”
And like the feeling you get from eating chocolate, is that wrong too?
>Researchers Suzanne and Irving Sarnoff write: “For some people
>masturbation may become a habit to which they turn for solace whenever
>they are rebuffed or feel apprehensive about something. Others, however,
>may withdraw in this way only occasionally, when they are under the most
>acute emotional stress.” Evidently, others similarly resort to the habit
>when upset, depressed, lonely, or under much stress; it becomes a
>“tranquilizer” to blot out their troubles.
Again no problem here, would you rather they started shooting up with some
drug or other? At least your body is supposed to react like this.
>
>What Does the Bible Say?
>
>A youth asked: “Is masturbation an unforgivable sin?” Masturbation is
>not mentioned at all in the Bible. The practice was common in the
>Greek-speaking world during Bible times, and several Greek words were
>used to describe the practice. But not one of these words is used in the
>Bible.
>Since masturbation is not directly condemned in the Bible, does this
>mean it is harmless? Absolutely not!
oh dear, looks like we have someones personal opinion blending with their
beliefs to give an unreasonable and unsupported belief they wish all to
follow. Give it up will you, this is probably the sort of thing that landed
us with religion in the first place.
>Though it is not classed with such
>gross sins as fornication, masturbation is surely an unclean habit.
>(Ephesians 4:19) The principles of God’s Word thus indicate that you
>“benefit yourself” by strongly resisting this unclean habit.—Isaiah
>48:17.
Kindly demonstrate how this is an unclean habit.
>
>Arousing “Sexual Appetite”
>
>“Deaden, therefore, your body members,” urges the Bible, “as respects .
>. . sexual appetite.” (Colossians 3:5) “Sexual appetite” refers not to
>normal sexual feelings but to passion that is out of control.
Again you are applying personal bias here. Now listen carefully, ALL levels
of sexul feelings are normal!
Such
>“sexual appetite” can thus lead to one’s indulging in gross acts, as
>described by Paul at Romans 1:26, 27.
>But does not masturbation “deaden” these desires? No, on the contrary,
>as one youth confessed: “When you masturbate, you dwell mentally on
>wrong desires, and all that does is increase your appetite for them.”
*Sigh* So what if it increases the desire?
>Often an immoral fantasy is used to increase the sexual pleasure.
Morality is opinionistic.
>(Matthew 5:27, 28) Therefore, given the right circumstances, one could
>easily fall into immorality. This happened to one youth, who admits: “At
>one time, I felt that masturbation could relieve frustration without my
>getting involved with a female. Yet I developed an overpowering desire
>to do so.” He committed fornication. Not surprisingly, a nationwide
>study revealed that the majority of adolescents who masturbated were
>also committing fornication. They outnumbered those who were virgins by
>50 percent!
Oh no, what a teribly thing that people are doing normal natural things.
>
>Mentally and Emotionally Defiling
>
>Masturbation also instills certain attitudes that are mentally
>corrupting. (Compare 2 Corinthians 11:3.) When masturbating, a person is
>immersed in his or her own bodily sensations—totally self-centered.
Your god is self centered, jsut look at him creating man in HIS image. If
that isn't slef indulgence i don't know what is.
>Sex
>becomes separated from love and is relegated to a reflex that releases
>tension. But God intended that sexual desires be satisfied in sexual
>relations—an expression of love between a man and his wife.
Who are you to know what god intended, rephrase your statement! You may want
ot include something about it being your opinion.
<snip>
>A Balanced View of Guilt
>
>Many youths, though generally successful in overcoming this bad habit,
>occasionally give in to it. Fortunately, God is very merciful. “For you,
>O Jehovah, are good and ready to forgive,” said the psalmist. (Psalm
>86:5) When a Christian succumbs to masturbation, his heart is often
>self-condemning.
Self condemnation is another source of mental illness, just another example
of why this line of reasoning is not acceptable.
>Masturbation—How Can I Fight the Urge?
>
>“IT IS a very strong addiction,” said a young man who struggled with
>masturbation for over 15 years. “It can be just as habit forming as any
>drug or alcoholic beverage.”
Only it is not a drug, and alchoholic beverages arn't really condemned. On
the same subject, religion is just as like a drug as masterbation.
>“Prepare Your Minds for Action”
>
>Many masturbate to relieve tension and anxiety. Masturbation, though, is
>a childish way to react to problems. (Compare 1 Corinthians 13:11.)
Bahahahaha, religion is the ultimate way to react childishly, masterbation
pales in comparison (besides, you don't see little children going round
doing it, so its not really childish).
Exert your
>mind and reject the immoral thought. The arousal will soon die down.
>Rejecting bad thoughts is especially difficult, though, when one is
>alone at night.
Again, morals are opinionistic. What you think is not nessesarily right, or
accepted by everyone.
<snip remaining irrelevance>
SJR
Life is a tragedy for those who feel,
and a comedy for those who think.
___________________________
http://www.rusling.mcmail.com
___________________________
Blade wrote in message
>
>SJR wrote in message <7b23hu$a58
><snip>
>>>Do you remember when I told you that repressing the sexdrive is a bad
>idea?
>>>Guess what, this is complete repression of the sex drive (I.e. not having
>>>sex or playing with yourself to relive them). I can't remember where I
>>heard
>>>the story, but apparently in the dark ages, monks would go insane and
>start
>>>raping people and playing with themselves and such. Now, how does this
fit
>>>in with what I told you eh?
>>
>>Yeah, I still don't agree. I know people who have it repressed well. If
you
>>just stop, then yeah there will be bad effects. If you cut it down, you
can
>>change.
>
>When i say repressing i mean not doing it just to clariy that.
>>I guess it varies from person to person though. Anyway, I said "cut
>>down", I didn't say never. If you need to to relieve yourself, then okay,
>>but if you're just doing it for pleasure then it's not so good.
>
>Man are you zealots on a guilt trip or what? This kind of view must have
>been put forward from someone who felt really guilty about sex i tell you.
>Just as another point, telling your children that sex is sinful and dirty
No...
>does serious damage to their relationships in laterlife, when even when
they
>are in a situation you would aprove of sex, they still feel dirty and
guilty
>if they do it and try to avoid it, just putting strain on their relation
>ship and causeing them to break up. I just hope you bear this in mind when
>you start telling your children about sex, never infer it is a bad thing,
>and you will then end up with a well adjusted child. (When they are in
their
>teens and old enough to start experimenting then you can tell them your
>views, but also remember not to push your veiws oin them either, its up to
>them).
Ok, first of all, people (esp. teenagers) are like a spring. If you have a
relaxed grip, they stay in place. If you squeeze too much they fly away
pretty far pretty quick.
Also, I think you've got a different idea to me about my view of sex. It
isn't dirty and bad - but the opposite. It's a special thing, which should
be shared between married couples only.
Sam
The Chosen One
**********
Ok, all you monkey spankers! Are you guys to tell me that masturbation is a
sin? The more I read these letters the more it makes me laugh. First off,
what makes you think that someone masturbates to relieve tensions, only
freaks who read the Bible literaly( by this I mean that the bible is not
clear on some issues) would do such a thing, everyone knows that that you
are thinking of someone sexy (I hope its a someone *caugh*). And to tell
your children that sex is a bad thing, that is the worst you can tell them
(esp. teenagers), because if something is bad then its 'cool' and will make
them all go 'Humping around' (that song was cool from Bobby Brown). And
statistics show that most people lose their virginity before marriage. The
idea of keeping your virginity is long dead ever since the hippy days (I
wasnt born yet though). I'm a Christians, but until hell recieves their
first Blizzard there is no way I'd lie to my children about sex, because
they'll learn it by their friends or view it on the Internet( by going onto
XXX FreePassword sites). You guys give us Christian a bad rep as ignorant
hypocrites.
Blade
SJR wrote in message <7b4l8h$skg$8...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>...
Okay, that may be the case, but many people do treat sex like this when they
talk to their children about it, and it does have the affect that I stated.
Just out of interest, what would you do if you found out that your
son/daughter was having sex with their g/b/friend? Would you accept that it
is their life, or would you lecture them and make the prospect of sex all
the more exciting?
SJR
If busses stop at a bus station,
and trains stop at a train station,
is that why I have a work station on my desk?
____________________________________
http://www.rusling.mcmail.com
________________________
Blade wrote in message
<920071606.29694.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>Just out of interest, what would you do if you found out that your
>son/daughter was having sex with their g/b/friend? Would you accept that it
>is their life, or would you lecture them and make the prospect of sex all
>the more exciting?
If she can deal with me, then she can handle that!
But yeah, I'd be upset and angry, but I would be (hopefully) not totally
anti.
It's like the spring parable - if I squeeze too hard they just fly off.
Prayerfully, it'll never come to that. Or my child will be bright enough to
adequately mask it from my knowledge.
Sam
Blade
SJR wrote in message <7b7d78$g9t$3...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>...
Unfortunately it is likely to be the second choice if your child knows your
views (which they obviously will). Either that or you'll need to do some
serious programming as I outlined (you know, the "make sex look bad" thing).
Blade: On a rather personal note, are you a virgin?
SJR
If busses stop at a bus station,
and trains stop at a train station,
is that why I have a work station on my desk?
____________________________________
http://www.rusling.mcmail.com
________________________
Blade wrote in message
>Blade: On a rather personal note, are you a virgin?
Yes, just.
Sam
Blade
SJR wrote in message <7bbqg9$70h$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>...
<snip>
Taboo tends to be bad ya know.
>
>>Blade: On a rather personal note, are you a virgin?
>Yes, just.
>
>Sam
>
>
Blade
SJR
If busses stop at a bus station,
and trains stop at a train station,
is that why I have a work station on my desk?
____________________________________
http://www.rusling.mcmail.com
________________________
Blade wrote in message
correct attitude across without being overbearing. I mean, if I say it's bad
I'd be lying!
Sam
Blade
SJR wrote in message <7bh5g3$d6e$7...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>...
<snip>
>>>>Unfortunately it is likely to be the second choice if your child knows
>>your
>>>>views (which they obviously will). Either that or you'll need to do some
>>>>serious programming as I outlined (you know, the "make sex look bad"
>>>thing).
>>>Probably, yes. Though I'll try not to make sex look bad, maybe just
taboo.
>>
>>Taboo tends to be bad ya know.
>>
>Well, maybe. Or maybe just not done. I'll just have to work at getting a
>correct attitude across without being overbearing. I mean, if I say it's
bad
>I'd be lying!
>
Don't lie then, tell them it is good, but you view it as being against your
god to do it out side of marriage (to be honest the idea of it being against
anything amazes me, whoever came up with that was seriously sick).
SJR
If busses stop at a bus station,
and trains stop at a train station,
is that why I have a work station on my desk?
____________________________________
http://www.rusling.mcmail.com
________________________
Blade wrote in message
>
>SJR wrote in message <7bh5g3$d6e$7...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>...
><snip>
>>>>>Unfortunately it is likely to be the second choice if your child knows
>>>your
>>>>>views (which they obviously will). Either that or you'll need to do
some
>>>>>serious programming as I outlined (you know, the "make sex look bad"
>>>>thing).
>>>>Probably, yes. Though I'll try not to make sex look bad, maybe just
>taboo.
>>>
>>>Taboo tends to be bad ya know.
>>>
>>Well, maybe. Or maybe just not done. I'll just have to work at getting a
>>correct attitude across without being overbearing. I mean, if I say it's
>bad
>>I'd be lying!
>>
>
>
>Don't lie then, tell them it is good, but you view it as being against your
>god to do it out side of marriage (to be honest the idea of it being
against
>anything amazes me, whoever came up with that was seriously sick).
>
Sam
Blade
SJR wrote in message <7bhonk$q58$4...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>><snip>
>>>Well, maybe. Or maybe just not done. I'll just have to work at getting a
>>>correct attitude across without being overbearing. I mean, if I say it's
>>bad
>>>I'd be lying!
>>>
>>
>>
>>Don't lie then, tell them it is good, but you view it as being against
your
>>god to do it out side of marriage (to be honest the idea of it being
>against
>>anything amazes me, whoever came up with that was seriously sick).
>>
>Or maybe they just had a _really_ high view of sex?
>
Or a guilt complex, or paranoid of his/her partner (probably a male in those
times).
SJR
If busses stop at a bus station,
and trains stop at a train station,
is that why I have a work station on my desk?
____________________________________
http://www.rusling.mcmail.com
________________________
Blade wrote in message
>
>SJR wrote in message <7bhonk$q58$4...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>>><snip>
>>>>Well, maybe. Or maybe just not done. I'll just have to work at getting a
>>>>correct attitude across without being overbearing. I mean, if I say it's
>>>bad
>>>>I'd be lying!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Don't lie then, tell them it is good, but you view it as being against
>your
>>>god to do it out side of marriage (to be honest the idea of it being
>>against
>>>anything amazes me, whoever came up with that was seriously sick).
>>>
>>Or maybe they just had a _really_ high view of sex?
>>
>
>
>Or a guilt complex, or paranoid of his/her partner (probably a male in
those
>times).
>
a high view of it and wont spread it around.
Sam