My Final Conclusions on Mass Defect and Gravitational Redshift
Richard Perry
The mass of a closed system is necessarily constant, a change in mass
equates to the immediate and instantaneous nonconservation of energy
and momentum wrt all inertial frames. There are no loopholes, classical
mechanics is a closed structure.
Show me an instance of nonconservation of Newtonian mass, and I'll show
you how generate free energy.
GR time dilation is as much pure hokum as is SR time dilation; it simply
doesn't happen. The only physical effect of gravity on a freely falling,
horizontally oriented, spinning disk is the obvious increase in linear
KE of the disk, and a not so obvious physical contraction of the disk.
This 'pinch' force is a result of the non parallel vectors of
gravitational force acting on the outside "lateral" edges of the disk,
which compared to the line of motion of the c.g. of the disk are
directed at a slight angle inward, thus leaving a component of force on
the disk's edges directed toward the c.g. of the disk. The slight
reduction in disk diameter that follows from this pinch will result in
an 'increase' in the angular velocity of the disk, quite the opposite of
the GR postulated 'decrease' in angular velocity.
Here's the real cause of gravitational red shift:
A ship is launched into orbit around the
Earth, the orbiting observer calibrates his primary clock to a ground
based clock. Since his altitude remains relatively unchanged he can use
a modulated signal beamed from the ground as a reference. If he knows
that x regularly spaced pulses occur in one second wrt the ground clock,
then he can adjust his clock's calibration rate until it too measures x
pulses per second. He is now confident that over any time interval his
clock will continue to agree with the ground based clock.
Now the carrier signal is a z-megahertz signal. The orbiting observer,
using his Earth calibrated primary clock, is per the above constrained
to measure the same frequency of this radiation as does the ground based
observer
using his ground based clock.
The orbiting observer however, having studied SR/GR believes that his
primary clock is now running slow compared to what he considers to be
his 'proper time', and applying a few calculations, he adjusts for this
offset and
applies it to a secondary clock with the purpose of calibrating the
secondary clock to his 'proper time'. He is thus assured that his
secondary
clock is now reading accurately his 'proper' time. Now upon using His
secondary (or 'proper') clock he finds that the incoming radiation's
frequency is somewhat lower than that reported by the ground based
observer. That is, if the orbiting observer runs up the speed of a
second clock wrt his ground calibrated clock to give what he believes to
be his proper time, then he will measure an apparent redshift in the
signal.
If the signal is then reflected back to the ground station, then the
ground
based observer will measure a frequency equal to the emitted frequency.
This is required since the total trip length of the beam remains a
constant wrt him. Since the orbiting observer is certain (based upon his
proper clock) that the
frequency of this reflected beam is somewhat less than z-megahertz, he
expects that the slower ticking earth observer's clock will measure the
frequency to be higher than this, or, just what it was as it was
reported to be when it left the
ground, i.e. exactly z-megahertz. The orbiting observer is now even more
confident that this gravitational redshifting is a real effect, since it
is reversed when the signal falls back into the gravity well, i.e. the
signal is blueshifted when falling back into the gravity well. What he
missed was this though, he didn't measure that blue shift with the same
clock, but rather measured its leaving frequency (reflected) with his
proper clock, but measuring the arrival frequency (ground station) with
the Earth clock. That is, the frequency must remain constant wrt him
just as it does for the ground based observer, regardless of which of
his clocks that he uses.
What can we say about this GR adherent then? He's a blathering moron,
nothing less than this would be an accurate description. Gravitational
redshifting simply doesn't occur.
I am by now so thoroughly distraught about the persistence of this
blatant insanity, that I will not sleep soundly again till these morons
are exposed publicly to be the kooks that they most certainly are.
Clocks can certainly speed up or slow down, but neither changes in
inertial
frames nor changes in gravitational potential can possibly have
anything to do with it. Only changes in inter-molecular forces or
intra-molecular forces can effect such a change, and as far as I'm
concerned, these microscopic forces are exclusively electromagnetic in
origin.
--
Richard Perry
http://www.cswnet.com/~rper
dlzc@aol.com (formerly)
"Richard Perry" <no_mail...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3E99788B...@yahoo.com...
> Conclusions:
>
> The mass of a closed system is necessarily constant, a change in mass
> equates to the immediate and instantaneous nonconservation of energy
> and momentum wrt all inertial frames. There are no loopholes, classical
> mechanics is a closed structure.
>
> Show me an instance of nonconservation of Newtonian mass, and I'll show
> you how generate free energy.
Fission (heavier than Fe) or Fusion (lighter than Fs). Less mass than was
available before.
Pair creation. More mass than was available before.
We had a fellow that theorized converting all of a mass to light at the
bottom of a well, and back into mass at the top of a well. Watching the
transporter on Star Trek too much I guess. He would then absorb energy as
the mass fell down the well.
What is your bright idea?
David A. Smith
S. Enterprize Company
>
>The mass of a closed system is necessarily constant, a change in mass
>equates to the immediate and instantaneous nonconservation of energy
>and momentum wrt all inertial frames. There are no loopholes, classical
>mechanics is a closed structure.
>
>Show me an instance of nonconservation of Newtonian mass, and I'll show
>you how generate free energy.
>
Mass is constant. But mass can only be logically defined at the sub-atomic
level by The Smart Atomic Model. When you ask people what mass is, most will
just reference to the periodic table of elements, then if you ask them further
what mass is from there, they don't know.
Mass is constant because the sub-atomic ( relatively) perpetual damped
harmonic oscillator within the atoms and sub-particles resonate at a constant
frequency. This allows the sub-atomic core pressure ( of atoms and particles
etc..) to remain constant which is the mass.
For more on the Smart Atomic Model go to the Website shown below.
S. Enterprize Co. (Membership)
http://www.s-enterprize.com/
S. Enterprize (Science Journal)
http://smart1234.s-enterprize.com/
Mike Varney
Good... then we do not have to hear you spew anything more about it.
Uncle Al
>
> Conclusions:
>
> The mass of a closed system is necessarily constant,
Heisenberg uncertainty and and zero point fluctuations.
> a change in mass
> equates to the immediate and instantaneous nonconservation of energy
> and momentum wrt all inertial frames.
Babbling moron.
> Show me an instance of nonconservation of Newtonian mass, and I'll show
> you how generate free energy.
Casimir effect - but it isn't cyclic with net output, idiot.
[snip]
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
Richard Perry
I see your headers, but that's as far as I'm going. Oh darn.
KNIGHT TEMPLAR
blatant insanity, that I will not sleep soundly again till these morons
are exposed publicly to be the kooks that they most certainly are.
Of course you are spot on dear Richard Perry and the explanation is whithin
a system based on a Universal Pressure Law !...
Whereby ALL attraction and repulsion are due to differential of pressure !
Needless to say the Universal Pressure Law is the Corner Stone of the True
Geology !
As for that red shift it does exist indeed but has nothing to do with the
Doppler-Fitzeau effect ... simply the result of absorption of the emssion
energy of the original signal indeed !!!!
Following all the Calculationzzzz of the present Physics sci000nce like the
one of the most Horrid Gogology can be throwed overboard !
Why ?
Simply in Universatl Pressure System ALL PRESENT CONSTANT ARE IN FACT
VARIABLE !!!
It follows that very same measure of our Solar System are completely false
indeed , without going further and as far as signals crossing the
interstellar system, this is not as Photon that they do it, of course !!!
Indeed the depth of the Universe is dark with a small remaining of light
which is simply tied to the nature of the lenses used .... RIGHT HERE !!!
Thanks Richard and just like HE Retic and a few others , keep up that good
work !
The world is changing and the rabbid Orthodox 's Theories days are counted,
indeed !
--
Jean-Paul Turcaud
Hydro & Mining Prospector
Pioneer of Australian Mining
Discoverer of Telfer; Kintyre & Nifty Mines in The Great Sandy Desert.
Discoverer of the South Atlantic Submarine Gold Placers
_ 40 Millions Tons estimate _
Founder of The TRUE GEOLOGY
* The Greatest Australian Mining Covered Up Swindle Of The 20th Century
http://membres.lycos.fr/jpturcaud/
* The True Geology ( previously Refutation of the Horrid Geological Myths )
http://membres.lycos.fr/xxx/ ( Not available due to plagiarism hazards )
Breaking News
"THE GOLDEN RULE"
"Gold and Intrigue in the Desert"
"The true story of the discovery of the Telfer gold mine"
Author : Bob Sheppard, President of the Australian Prospectors' Union
Author's contact & web page : www.tnet.com.au/~warrigal/
Order from : Hesperian Press, PO Box 317 Victoria Park, 6979 W.Australia.
AUS 40.00 + post
Official launching done in Perth this 15th December 2002
~~Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
"Uncle Al" <Uncl...@hate.spam.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
3E99B6F5...@hate.spam.net...
""snipped Uncle Adolph 's ranting for sanity sake""
Efftard K. Donglemeier
Welcome to Idiotville.
Population: you.
Sam Wormley
>
>
> Clocks can certainly speed up or slow down, but neither changes in
> inertial frames nor changes in gravitational potential can possibly have
> anything to do with it.
General Relativity in the Global Positioning System by Neil Ashby
http://rattler.cameron.edu/EMIS/journals/LRG/Articles/Volume6/2003-1ashby/index.html
General Relativity in the Global Positioning System by Clifford M. Will
http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf
Crank Information
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3Asci.physics+author%3APerry
Lawrence Foard
formerly\)" < <)dl...@cox.net> wrote:
>Dear Richard Perry:
>
>"Richard Perry" <no_mail...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:3E99788B...@yahoo.com...
>> Conclusions:
>>
>> The mass of a closed system is necessarily constant, a change in mass
>> equates to the immediate and instantaneous nonconservation of energy
>> and momentum wrt all inertial frames. There are no loopholes, classical
>> mechanics is a closed structure.
>>
>> Show me an instance of nonconservation of Newtonian mass, and I'll show
>> you how generate free energy.
>
>Fission (heavier than Fe) or Fusion (lighter than Fs). Less mass than was
>available before.
>
>Pair creation. More mass than was available before.
Don't forget its a closed system. You have to account for the light (gamma's), and
kinetic energy, the mass of the system as a whole is conserved. In an open
system mass is obviously not conserved since you can remove or add as much
as you want :)
>We had a fellow that theorized converting all of a mass to light at the
>bottom of a well, and back into mass at the top of a well. Watching the
>transporter on Star Trek too much I guess. He would then absorb energy as
>the mass fell down the well.
This is why you can't treat the rest mass of a system as though it was the
sum of the rest masses of the parts.
--
Be a counter terrorist perpetrate random senseless acts of kindness
Rave: Immanentization of the Eschaton in a Temporary Autonomous Zone.
"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security"
-Benjamin Franklin
Lawrence Foard
Uncle Al <Uncl...@hate.spam.net> wrote:
>Richard Perry wrote:
>>
>> Conclusions:
>>
>> The mass of a closed system is necessarily constant,
>
>Heisenberg uncertainty and and zero point fluctuations.
Only relevant for small spaces and/or periods of time. And honestly
I suspect will vanish once quantum mechanics is understood as more
than a black box (Bohm/Hestene's style interpretations).
>> a change in mass
>> equates to the immediate and instantaneous nonconservation of energy
>> and momentum wrt all inertial frames.
>
>Babbling moron.
Probably true, but he was correct on this point (atleast in the context
of relativity/classical mechanics).
>> Show me an instance of nonconservation of Newtonian mass, and I'll show
>> you how generate free energy.
>
>Casimir effect - but it isn't cyclic with net output, idiot.
The Casimir effect is long term and macroscopic, you can't sweep it under
the rug of uncertainty/quantum weirdness. If the zero point energy is for
real, then that vacuum between the plates has a negative energy, and even
a negative gravity. Kind of makes me wonder about the whole idea, maybe
its just Van Der Waals forces, and we call them zero point energy to make
a weird theory with terrible philosophical interpretations even weirder
sounding :)
Paul B. Andersen
"Richard Perry" <no_mail...@yahoo.com> skrev i melding
news:3E99788B...@yahoo.com...
> Here's the real cause of gravitational red shift:
>
> A ship is launched into orbit around the
> Earth, the orbiting observer calibrates his primary clock to a ground
> based clock. Since his altitude remains relatively unchanged he can use
> a modulated signal beamed from the ground as a reference. If he knows
> that x regularly spaced pulses occur in one second wrt the ground clock,
> then he can adjust his clock's calibration rate until it too measures x
> pulses per second. He is now confident that over any time interval his
> clock will continue to agree with the ground based clock.
Sure. This is more or less what's done in the GPS.
The ground based "standard Cs 133 clock" have by definition
a frequency of 9192631770 Hz, e.g. one second is by definiton
9,192,631,770 cycles.
The orbiting observer notice that his Cs clock have 9192631774.1 cycles
during the time he receives 9192631770 cycles from the earth clock.
So he adjust his seconds to be 9192631774.1 cycles.
> Now the carrier signal is a z-megahertz signal. The orbiting observer,
> using his Earth calibrated primary clock, is per the above constrained
> to measure the same frequency of this radiation as does the ground based
> observer
> using his ground based clock.
Sure. Using his adjusted, tampered with improper clock.
> The orbiting observer however, having studied SR/GR believes that his
> primary clock is now running slow compared to what he considers to be
> his 'proper time', and applying a few calculations, he adjusts for this
> offset and
> applies it to a secondary clock with the purpose of calibrating the
> secondary clock to his 'proper time'. He is thus assured that his
> secondary
> clock is now reading accurately his 'proper' time.
Not at all. The orbiting observer, not having studied GR at all
thinks that his "standard Cs clock" IS a proper clock.
All he has to do is nothing, e.g. not fiddle with his clock at
all but use the standard definition of a second; 9192631770 cycles
on his standard Cs clock.
And using this proper clock, he will measure the frequency
of the signal from the earth clock to be 9192631765.9 Hz.
> Now upon using His
> secondary (or 'proper') clock he finds that the incoming radiation's
> frequency is somewhat lower than that reported by the ground based
> observer. That is, if the orbiting observer runs up the speed of a
> second clock wrt his ground calibrated clock to give what he believes to
> be his proper time, then he will measure an apparent redshift in the
> signal.
Sure.
Using his proper out of the assembly line unmodified standard clock,
he will indeed measure the signal from the ground clock red shifted.
What was your point?
There is nothing hypothetical about this, it is measured hundred
of times daily.
The clocks in the GPS satellites are factually slowed down relative
to a standard Cs clock by a factor of 4.4647 parts per 10^-10,
and then they run synchronously to the Earth clocks.
That makes it pretty obvious that the signal would have been
blue shifted by the same ratio if they had been running at their proper
rate, doesn't it?
> If the signal is then reflected back to the ground station, then the
> ground
> based observer will measure a frequency equal to the emitted frequency.
> This is required since the total trip length of the beam remains a
> constant wrt him. Since the orbiting observer is certain (based upon his
> proper clock) that the
> frequency of this reflected beam is somewhat less than z-megahertz, he
> expects that the slower ticking earth observer's clock will measure the
> frequency to be higher than this, or, just what it was as it was
> reported to be when it left the
> ground, i.e. exactly z-megahertz. The orbiting observer is now even more
> confident that this gravitational redshifting is a real effect, since it
> is reversed when the signal falls back into the gravity well, i.e. the
> signal is blueshifted when falling back into the gravity well.
Sure.
> What he
> missed was this though, he didn't measure that blue shift with the same
> clock, but rather measured its leaving frequency (reflected) with his
> proper clock, but measuring the arrival frequency (ground station) with
> the Earth clock. That is, the frequency must remain constant wrt him
> just as it does for the ground based observer, regardless of which of
> his clocks that he uses.
What did you try to say?
Of course he must measure some constant frequency regardless
of what clock he is using. So what?
The point is that when he uses a clock of the very same kind as the ground
clock, assembled side by side at HP, running at exact the same rate
when they were side by side during the factory test , then he measures
the signal from the ground clock red shifted.
What did you say he missed?
> What can we say about this GR adherent then? He's a blathering moron,
> nothing less than this would be an accurate description. Gravitational
> redshifting simply doesn't occur.
Do you think name calling can change the facts? :-)
> I am by now so thoroughly distraught about the persistence of this
> blatant insanity, that I will not sleep soundly again till these morons
> are exposed publicly to be the kooks that they most certainly are.
>
> Clocks can certainly speed up or slow down, but neither changes in
> inertial
> frames nor changes in gravitational potential can possibly have
> anything to do with it. Only changes in inter-molecular forces or
> intra-molecular forces can effect such a change, and as far as I'm
> concerned, these microscopic forces are exclusively electromagnetic in
> origin.
A telling statement.
I suppose that means that "as far as you are concerned" it doesn't
matter what real observations in the real word shows.
"As far as you are concerned" facts are fiction.
Paul
Spaceman
"Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b....@hia.no> wrote in message news:b7f8pl$ens$1...@dolly.uninett.no...
> Sure. This is more or less what's done in the GPS.
> The ground based "standard Cs 133 clock" have by definition
> a frequency of 9192631770 Hz, e.g. one second is by definiton
> 9,192,631,770 cycles.
> The orbiting observer notice that his Cs clock have 9192631774.1 cycles
> during the time he receives 9192631770 cycles from the earth clock.
> So he adjust his seconds to be 9192631774.1 cycles.
<LOL>
Physical proof the clock goofs up (malfunctions),
and instead of "actually finding out why the clock does such"
They come up with crap like "time" changed rate!
<ROFLOL>
Morons to the first degree that never learned what time was invented for at all.
Too freakin funny!
Lost in spacetime forever in "spacetime" and.
Worshipping a malfunctioning god known as atomic!
<LOL>
dlzc@aol.com (formerly)
"Lawrence Foard" <ent...@farviolet.com> wrote in message
news:b7eblb$bm5$1...@farviolet.com...
True, but "classical mechanics" is incorrect in at least the 5th or 6th sig
fig. Look at the rest masses of the constituent protons, neutrons, and
electrons as compared to the "assembly" as C-12. Classical mechanics does
not "contain" energy is equivalent to mass, unless velocity is involved.
Therefore its "closed system" doesn't enclose anything in which nucleon (or
particle) counts varies.
David A. Smith
TomB
Your brain is cought in a senseless moronic loop, repeating the same
corrupt data over and over. Please reboot and refresh your
programming. System upgrade is clearly advisable!
Paul B. Andersen
"Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b....@hia.no> skrev i melding
news:b7f8pl$ens$1...@dolly.uninett.no...
>
> The clocks in the GPS satellites are factually slowed down relative
> to a standard Cs clock by a factor of 4.4647 parts per 10^-10,
Oooops. Make that:
The clocks in the GPS satellites are factually slowed down relative
to a standard Cs clock by 4.4647 parts per 10^10.
Paul
kenseto
> news:3E99788B...@yahoo.com...
> > Here's the real cause of gravitational red shift:
> >
> > A ship is launched into orbit around the
> > Earth, the orbiting observer calibrates his primary clock to a ground
> > based clock. Since his altitude remains relatively unchanged he can use
> > a modulated signal beamed from the ground as a reference. If he knows
> > that x regularly spaced pulses occur in one second wrt the ground clock,
> > then he can adjust his clock's calibration rate until it too measures x
> > pulses per second. He is now confident that over any time interval his
> > clock will continue to agree with the ground based clock.
>
> Sure. This is more or less what's done in the GPS.
> The ground based "standard Cs 133 clock" have by definition
> a frequency of 9192631770 Hz, e.g. one second is by definiton
> 9,192,631,770 cycles.
> The orbiting observer notice that his Cs clock have 9192631774.1 cycles
> during the time he receives 9192631770 cycles from the earth clock.
> So he adjust his seconds to be 9192631774.1 cycles.
But the 9,192,631,770 cycles in the ground station clock has the same
absolute
time content as a satellite clock second which has 9,192,631,774.1 cycles.
This confirms my previous assertion that the GPS uses the concept of
absolute
time to synchronize the GPS clocks. :-)
Ken
YBM
[...]
> This confirms my previous assertion that the GPS uses the concept of
> absolute
> time to synchronize the GPS clocks. :-)
This confirm the well known conjecture that a stupid sentence with a
smiley at the end isn't less stupid. :-)