Trust No One...
BetNoir
And on the surface, it is certainly appealing - particularly to those
who feel disenfranchised under the current Administration. Trust no
one because they might turn you in. Trust no one because they might be
watching your every move. Trust no one because they know what you are
doing at all times.
But bear with me for a moment, while I unpack that
phrase...deconstruct it, if you will.
Certainly it means not to trust Those in Power. Because...well...they
have Power and you don't. But who told you that in the first place?
The newspaper? The radio? Mr. Goldstein, perhaps (X-thread)?
But how can you trust them?
Trust No One, right?
So now you don't trust Those in Power. And you don't trust those who
tell you that Those in Power are good. Yet, those who tell you that
Those in Power are bad are no more trustworthy, right?
Trust No One.
Ah, but you can trust yourself, of course! Your instincts are never
wrong as to what is good and what is bad.
But how can you trust yourself?
Trust No One.
That means you.
Is that a world you want to live in? Where reality itself cannot be
trusted? Is that the life you want? Where even your own needs and
desires cannot be accepted as truth?
At the end of the day, that's what 'Trust No One' means.
Still not convinced?
Try spending time around somebody who is undergoing a major psychotic
break.
That person is the living definition of 'Trust No One.'
Now, is that really a life worth living?
I say not.
Trust is what makes us human and - ultimately - humane. It is what
allows us to believe that this Place can exist at all. And in a
universe that exhorts us, compels us not to trust, that is something
special. And I, for one, will not throw that away on a whim and a
prayer.
I will trust. I will believe. I will hold faith.
And my heart may be broken for it, many times over. My soul may be
shattered for it.
But better that then to live my life with no soul at all.
Tarnished Knight
"BetNoir" <bet...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5cf7e32e.02071...@posting.google.com...
Trust No One, right?
Trust No One.
Trust No One.
That means you.
Still not convinced?
I say not.
----
Hear hear, Cap'n Milady ...
Cheers ...
--
Michael J A Tyzuk, CDOSB
Tarnished Knight
Ships OTHER Scotsman, Bad Ship BetNoirian
Tarnish...@shaw.ca
ICQ#115847009
"In order to teach those concerned with this disgusting monetary waste a
severe lesson, I have ordered the building burned to the ground, and a new
building put up at the proper price!"
Neddy Seagoon, The Strolling Prime Minister of No Fixed Address
Pat Kight
> I will trust. I will believe. I will hold faith.
>
> And my heart may be broken for it, many times over. My soul may be
> shattered for it.
>
> But better that then to live my life with no soul at all.
"Mike, a drink for the Pyrate Queen, if you please. I couldn't have said
it better myself."
--Jezebel
who trusts everyone until they give her reason not to - and they have to
try really, really hard.
kig...@peak.org
John Vinson
>Trust is what makes us human and - ultimately - humane. It is what
>allows us to believe that this Place can exist at all. And in a
>universe that exhorts us, compels us not to trust, that is something
>special. And I, for one, will not throw that away on a whim and a
>prayer.
>
>I will trust. I will believe. I will hold faith.
>
>And my heart may be broken for it, many times over. My soul may be
>shattered for it.
>
>But better that then to live my life with no soul at all.
"Preach it, Sister!" says the Wysard, without any trace of irony or
satire.
"Bet, may I offer you three or four BsOYC? That was eloquent!"
John the Wysard jvinson *at* WysardOfInfo *dot* com
John Vinson
<meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
>Wait till you experience your first lawsuit brought on by someone you
>TRUSTED. Then your opinion will change.
Again, to quote BetNoir:
> >But better that then to live my life with no soul at all.
I suppose they wouldn't have sued you if you had been suspicious? Is
it worth distrusting (and, to some extent, denigrating as liars and
crooks) every innocent person you will ever meet? Seems like a higher
price than even an unwarrented lawsuit.
Andreas Schaefer
<meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
>In alt.callahans, John Vinson wrote (article ID
><6vtbju05cda5jb1ns...@4ax.com>):
>Wait till you experience your first lawsuit brought on by someone you
>TRUSTED. Then your opinion will change.
>
I should hope not. Actually as far as I'm concerned the betraials are
factored in as calculated loss. The way I figure it I'd rather be
betrayed occasionally than be paranoid.
And thanks for the well worded post Bet.
BONOYC?
Andreas
As the carrier of acws.de is goint through financial problems
currently (http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/data/jk-31.05.02-005/)
It would be a good idea if you updated your address-books to acws at gmx dot net
which should not be affected. Alternatively you might try ac at gh4 dot de
Margaret Whittleton
His usual silly ass garbage.
plonk.
Marg
BetNoir
> Wait till you experience your first lawsuit brought on by someone you
> TRUSTED. Then your opinion will change.
You no longer trust *anyone* because one person bent you over a barrel?
I...pity you that.
--
BetN - NEVER parry with your head
Benevolent Cap'n, Bad Ship BetNoirian - You there! Hoist something!
AFR Goddess of Pith and Vinegar
Blood Angel
Proud Member #014, Assassins' Guild - Nihil Privatus
Wackus Concealeratus Traumatica of Sarcastica
The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence.'
'Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist
the black flag and begin slitting throats' - H.L. Mencken
'To desire the end is to desire the means' - Draka
'Embrace the pain. Spank your inner moppet. Whatever. Just deal with
it.' - Cordelia Chase
Take away my dagger to e-mail me
Ravan Asteris
> Those three words seem to have become the catchphrase of the moment.
>
[snip]
The expression I live by is:
"Trust Everyone... To Fill Their Own Needs First"
This can be reparsed as:
"Trust No One... To Fill Any Needs But Their Own"
I learned about trust, and what it isn't, a long time ago and in a fairly
painful way. The fact is that human beings will, invariably, look after their
own needs, whether emotional or physical, in order of their own priorities.
If you are lucky, caring for and about you is high on their list of
priorities. But don't assume it, don't bother to demand it, and be very
appreciative when it's there.
Cynical? Maybe, but I really appreciate people who care about me *more* when
I don't automatically assume that they care. And I can trust people to be
themselves without any risk of betrayal, because I know they will follow their
own course, not necessarily mine.
Trust me on this?? ;)
Ravan
--
Ravan Asteris rasteris / at \ rahul / dot \ net
(squish "/ and \" to make symbols like "&")
http://www.rahul.net/rasteris/ - generic home page
http://www.rahul.net/rasteris/diamond/ - diamond trad
Lee S. Billings
bet...@earthlink.net says...
>
>Those three words seem to have become the catchphrase of the moment.
>
>And on the surface, it is certainly appealing - particularly to those
>who feel disenfranchised under the current Administration. Trust no
>one because they might turn you in. Trust no one because they might be
>watching your every move. Trust no one because they know what you are
>doing at all times.
>
>But bear with me for a moment, while I unpack that
>phrase...deconstruct it, if you will.
<snip words of wisdom>
A good argument, Bet. However, I submit that while the phrase "Trust No One"
is, as you say, a recipe for a miserable life, the associated thought "Trust
Carefully" is not. And I believe that things *are* reaching the point where
it's wiser to give only limited trust to anyone you don't know well.
Do I trust my neighbor down the street to treat me with basic civility, or to
keep an eye on my place while I'm on vacation? Yes, certainly. Do I trust
him/her not to report me on that TIPS program if I express dislike/distrust of
the current Administration's policies? Unfortunately, not really any more.
Which doesn't necessarily mean I'm not going to say anything -- but *does* mean
that I will weigh my words, and the good they might do, against the possible
cost.
Celine
--
"Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring."
-- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_
Beth Jackson
>>Wait till you experience
>>your first lawsuit
>>brought on by someone you
>>TRUSTED.
>>Then your opinion will change.
BetNoir:
>You no longer trust *anyone*
>because
>one person bent you over a barrel?
Lordy... {:'-\
<sympathetic sniffle>
..I'm not so sure *I'd* be completely trusting after that; after all, I
haven't been in this person's shoes, so to speak.
{:-\
<sympathetic back-pat offered>
<hmmms a bit>
But at the same time, I'm not so sure that would make me distrust
*everyone else, ever again*, either, perhaps.
Be a lot more cautious and careful, sure
--but not *completely and irrevocably* paranoid, either, probably (at
least, I would hope;).
After all, there are *billions* of people in the world, that I haven't
even met yet.
{{;-)
The likelihood is, therefore, IMO, a bit too unlikely that *one* person
would be that much of a *total* difference in the world-outlook, so to
speak.
{:-)
> I
>...pity you that.
Yup; same here.
{{:-\
--Canary
(I guess I *am* a bit of an optimist, after all...;)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The Canvas Canary"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love to paint,
I like to sing,
I have blonde hair, and
I am a little bit flighty:)
(Visit my website to see my art & me;)
BetNoir
> A good argument, Bet. However, I submit that while the phrase "Trust No One"
> is, as you say, a recipe for a miserable life, the associated thought "Trust
> Carefully" is not.
I never argued as to such. 'Trust Carefully,' or Ravan's closely parsed
phrases, are just good, basic human survival instinct. Nothing wrong
with that.
But, as I explained to Shaman (X-thread), 'Trust No One' makes a very
dangerous baseline assumption about how human beings are neurologically
wired.
At a basic, wetware level, humans NEED external confirmation of their
reality. Lose that, and you are reduced to active schizophrenia or other
similar such psychotic breaks.
'Trust No One' takes that external confirmation away.
J. Jasper
Sudden Massive Loss of Life wrote:
>
> In alt.callahans, Beth Jackson wrote (article ID <24783-3D3661BA-148
> @storefull-2137.public.lawson.webtv.net>):
> > Sudden Massive Loss of Life:
> >
> > >>Wait till you experience
> > >>your first lawsuit
> > >>brought on by someone you
> > >>TRUSTED.
> > >>Then your opinion will change.
> >
> > BetNoir:
> >
> > >You no longer trust *anyone*
> > >because
> > >one person bent you over a barrel?
> >
> > Lordy... {:'-\
> > <sympathetic sniffle>
> >
> > ..I'm not so sure *I'd* be completely trusting after that; after all, I
> > haven't been in this person's shoes, so to speak.
> > {:-\
> > <sympathetic back-pat offered>
> >
> > <hmmms a bit>
> >
> > But at the same time, I'm not so sure that would make me distrust
> > *everyone else, ever again*, either, perhaps.
> > Be a lot more cautious and careful, sure
> > --but not *completely and irrevocably* paranoid, either, probably (at
> > least, I would hope;).
>
> "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
>
> Wise words.
If you don't trust *anyone* but yourself, what does "shared pain is
halved and shared joy is doubled" mean to you? How can you share
anything as intimate as joy or pain if you can't trust the people you're
sharing with?
J. Jasper
Sudden Massive Loss of Life wrote:
>
> In alt.callahans, J. Jasper wrote (article ID
> <3D370E03...@attbi.com>):
> >
> >
> > Sudden Massive Loss of Life wrote:
> > >
> > > In alt.callahans, Beth Jackson wrote (article ID <24783-3D3661BA-148
> > > @storefull-2137.public.lawson.webtv.net>):
> > > > Sudden Massive Loss of Life:
> > > >
[...]
> > > > But at the same time, I'm not so sure that would make me distrust
> > > > *everyone else, ever again*, either, perhaps.
> > > > Be a lot more cautious and careful, sure
> > > > --but not *completely and irrevocably* paranoid, either, probably (at
> > > > least, I would hope;).
> > >
> > > "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
> > >
> > > Wise words.
> >
> > If you don't trust *anyone* but yourself, what does "shared pain is
> > halved and shared joy is doubled" mean to you? How can you share
> > anything as intimate as joy or pain if you can't trust the people you're
> > sharing with?
>
> Maybe its just me, living in LA and working in the entertainment
> business and all..
OK. But that doesn't answer my questions. Can you share *anything*
intimate with people? And I don't mean sex. I mean emotionally.
J. Jasper
Sudden Massive Loss of Life wrote:
>
> In alt.callahans, J. Jasper wrote (article ID <3D370FAF.9D368E92
> Yes absolutely which means that I've opened myself up for big hurt that
> much more.
How do you share that if you don't trust them?
John Vinson
<meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
>> I...pity you that.
>
>Don't rush to judgement please, as you do not know what I've gone
>through with this person and others before.
It may just be that the text medium isn't communicating what you
intend. It sounds like that what you are saying is that the six
billion people in the world must all be now put into the "this person
cannot be trusted" category (possibly with a future option of being
reclassified) because you had one unfortunate and deplorable
experience.
THat's what I'm concerned about.
D.J.
]
] The entire six billion people on this planet are in the "do not trust"
] category until such a point as they prove to me they are deserving of my
] trust.
But at what cost ? ( emotionally and intellectualy, etc )
Unless your food and water come from somewhere you trust... or you
grow it yourself...
unless you generate your own electricity, or trust those who do, you
still have to trust those who made the generator.
You have to trust someone, or you are without food, water, shelter,
transport, clothing etc.
Or, you can be careful in your dealings with others.
But to exist, you have to do some trusting of someone somewhere
sometime.
D.J.
--
Disclaimer: Standard.
Updated: July 5, 2002
my 1E AD&D game world.
http://blue7green.crosswinds.net/crestar/index.html
Pat Kight
>
> In alt.callahans, John Vinson wrote (article ID
>
> The entire six billion people on this planet are in the "do not trust"
> category until such a point as they prove to me they are deserving of my
> trust.
"I'm sorry that your experiences have caused you to feel that way," says
the Spinster down in the Lounge. "I've been screwed over by other
people, too: Robbed, cheated, betrayed by friends, lied to, gossipped
about - and in the ultimate betrayal of trust, sexually abused by my
father.
"Yet somehow I've developed an attitude *exactly* opposite yours. The
entire six billion people on this planet are in my personal `trust'
category until such time as they prove themselves unworthy of that
trust. Every one of them.
"I don't trust blindly. I look out for myself. And certainly some people
earn much deeper levels of trust than others. But generally speaking, I
find that people reward my trust by being, well, trustworthy.
"I wonder if, to some degree, we get what we expect to get?"
--Jezebel
kig...@peak.org
BetNoir
> Don't rush to judgement please, as you do not know what I've gone
> through with this person and others before.
I make a judgement based only on what you have put out here for public
consumption.
No more and no less.
BetNoir
>
> <3D370E03...@attbi.com>):
> > If you don't trust *anyone* but yourself, what does "shared pain is
> > halved and shared joy is doubled" mean to you? How can you share
> > anything as intimate as joy or pain if you can't trust the people you're
> > sharing with?
>
> Maybe its just me, living in LA and working in the entertainment
> business and all..
Please explain to me the correlation here between living in LA, working
in the entertainment industry and an inability to trust anyone.
BetN, lives in LA, has some ties to the Industry, yet still manages to
trust some people...
John Vinson
<meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
>The entire six billion people on this planet are in the "do not trust"
>category until such a point as they prove to me they are deserving of my
>trust.
That's what I feared you meant. You have my sympathy; I couldn't live
like that.
I guess I don't have such neat boxes. As noted elsewhere in this
thread, my default assumption on meeting a stranger is that they are a
decent human being; I'd trust them within normal limits (i.e. I
wouldn't ask a stranger to hold on to my wallet while I take a swim)
but I wouldn't assume that every person I meet is a sociopath who will
do something dreadful if I let up my vigilance for a second.
John W. Vinson[MVP]
Come for live chats every Tuesday and Thursday
http://go.compuserve.com/msdevapps?loc=us&access=public
Izunya
<< Trust is what makes us human and - ultimately - humane. It is what
allows us to believe that this Place can exist at all. And in a
universe that exhorts us, compels us not to trust, that is something
special. And I, for one, will not throw that away on a whim and a
prayer.
I will trust. I will believe. I will hold faith.
And my heart may be broken for it, many times over. My soul may be
shattered for it.
But better that then to live my life with no soul at all.>>
What she said. Most of the paranoics I know are frightened and lonely. Trust
is one of our Human-Making Things, and we should not give it up lightly.
Izunya
Lollee
<bet...@my.earthlinkdagger.net> writes:
>But, as I explained to Shaman (X-thread), 'Trust No One' makes a very
>dangerous baseline assumption about how human beings are neurologically
>wired.
>
>At a basic, wetware level, humans NEED external confirmation of their
>reality. Lose that, and you are reduced to active schizophrenia or other
>similar such psychotic breaks.
>
>'Trust No One' takes that external confirmation away.
>
"Trust No One" gained popularity recently as a catch-phrase from the X-files.
And oddly, the other catch-phrase from that series is "I Want to Believe."
Seems to neatly bookend the human dilemma about trust and faith.(Part of the
reason I liked the X-files despite their frequent, tooth-jarring factual
inaccuracies.)
Lollee
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to
anger."
J.R.R. Tolkien, "The Fellowship of the Ring"
J. Jasper
John Vinson wrote:
>
> On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:07:56 -0700, Sudden Massive Loss of Life
> <meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
>
> >The entire six billion people on this planet are in the "do not trust"
> >category until such a point as they prove to me they are deserving of my
> >trust.
>
> That's what I feared you meant. You have my sympathy; I couldn't live
> like that.
>
> I guess I don't have such neat boxes. As noted elsewhere in this
> thread, my default assumption on meeting a stranger is that they are a
> decent human being; I'd trust them within normal limits (i.e. I
> wouldn't ask a stranger to hold on to my wallet while I take a swim)
> but I wouldn't assume that every person I meet is a sociopath who will
> do something dreadful if I let up my vigilance for a second.
>
Sort of a continuum of trust, as opposed to a binary state? That's how
I operate too. I also find that sometimes, It's best to be a bit more
careful than I used to be when observing "warning signs". I also look
out for the signs a bit more than I used to
And yeah, it's because I was burned before. But that's OK. I do open
my heart to people. I'm just a bit more cautious about it. I think
that
(a) I am worth it to get to know.
(b) if I'm opening up to someone, and they're patient and deal with my
cautiousness, they're probably someone worth opening up to.
Freyja
"Sudden Massive Loss of Life" <meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.17a098a4e...@west.usenetserver.com...
| In alt.callahans, John Vinson wrote (article ID
with
| the upmost respect and integrity -- and in the end because of all that
I
| get fucked and my heart broken, pending litigation.
|
| I've become a bit jaded by the whole experience. For me to trust
anyone
| now they really have to earn that trust and prove to me their worth.
I'm sorry that this happened to you.
I am glad I don't have to live the way you do. With the love in my
life, I can't not trust.
--
Freyja the NurseWenchWitch (despam me)
Queen of the Sim City Realm, Royal Order of W.H.I.N.E
www.eclecticeel.com
Goddesses R Us: How may you serve Us?
Freyja
"J. Jasper" <jsja...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3D370E03...@attbi.com...
|
|
| Sudden Massive Loss of Life wrote:
| >
| > In alt.callahans, Beth Jackson wrote (article ID <24783-3D3661BA-148
| > @storefull-2137.public.lawson.webtv.net>):
| > >
| > > But at the same time, I'm not so sure that would make me distrust
| > > *everyone else, ever again*, either, perhaps.
| > > Be a lot more cautious and careful, sure
| > > --but not *completely and irrevocably* paranoid, either, probably
(at
| > > least, I would hope;).
| >
| > "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
| >
| > Wise words.
|
| If you don't trust *anyone* but yourself, what does "shared pain is
| halved and shared joy is doubled" mean to you? How can you share
| anything as intimate as joy or pain if you can't trust the people
you're
| sharing with?
Well said. Maybe it's just me, but I can't see that as possible.
Sharing something as important and personal as pain and joy takes trust.
Leonard & Brooke
John,
Some of us have had our trusted abused over and over again. and had it
ground into our souls that trusting people just made it easier for them
to hurt you.
Even so, we try to come to terms with it. (do a google search for my
poem "Armor" that I've posted here once or twice)
The problem is that society isn't nearly hard enough on people who abuse
trust in "harmless" ways.
--
Leonard Erickson kal...@krypton.rain.com
"No, I will _not_ move your planet... What do you want to move it _for_?
It's fine right where it is!"
-- Dairine Callahan, Wizard (no relation)
Arri London
Doubt that very much. Most people expect trustworthiness of
most other people. Yet some people feel free to routinely
violate that trust.
Trust is fluid. I used to trust most people to some extent.
However, since moving to the US and this particular
locality, I trust very very few people.
While talking to a friend in London about certain types of
vehicle vanity plates, he said I should approach one of the
drivers to chat about it.
My instant response rather shocked my friend: 'Are you out
of your mind? People around here are armed! There is no way
I would approach anyone here in their car for any reason.'
Although I should add, I probably would offer to help
someone who is clearly ill or injured (after calling 911),
but there have been local cases of 'good samaritans' being
shot at.
In London I don't hesitate to talk to strangers, but I'd
never try that here. Sadly, I would never trust local police
either unless I had absolutely no choice. They are armed and
seemingly trigger happy.
Pat Kight
> Pat Kight wrote:
>
>>"I don't trust blindly. I look out for myself. And certainly some people
>>earn much deeper levels of trust than others. But generally speaking, I
>>find that people reward my trust by being, well, trustworthy.
>>
>>"I wonder if, to some degree, we get what we expect to get?"
> Doubt that very much. Most people expect trustworthiness of
> most other people. Yet some people feel free to routinely
> violate that trust.
"Some, yes. But if someone violates my trust, I stop trusting *them,*
not everyone else. I try not to generalize negative experience with
individuals onto the population at large.
> Trust is fluid. I used to trust most people to some extent.
>
> However, since moving to the US and this particular
> locality, I trust very very few people.
>
> While talking to a friend in London about certain types of
> vehicle vanity plates, he said I should approach one of the
> drivers to chat about it.
> My instant response rather shocked my friend: 'Are you out
> of your mind? People around here are armed! There is no way
> I would approach anyone here in their car for any reason.'
Jezebel acknowledges that she lives in small-town Western America, where
the general level of distrust and fear is probably a bit lower than it
is in, say, the urban East. But violent crime rates in her little town
aren't very much lower than they are in the cities, and the relatively
lower population density actually makes it a bit more likely that one
might personally encounter violence and other Bad Things...
"Even so, I do the sort of thing you mention all the time - asking
strangers about their license plates, talking to people on the street,
etc. - with remarkably few ill effects.
"Some of my neighbors do, in fact, own guns, and while I have
reservations about an armed populace (nope, nope, nope, ain't gonna go
down that road, not this morning), it doesn't make me nervous or
fearful, because they are responsible folks who take sensible
precautions with their weapons.
"As for the local police, mine are pretty nice people, for the most
part. I know several of them by name, and wouldn't hesitate to call them
if I needed help - have done, in fact.
"OTOH, when I travel abroad, I tend to be more ... not fearful, but
certainly cautious ... about my surroundings and the people, at least
until I've had a chance to develop a comfort level with them. I think
that's a bit of fish-out-of-water nervousness, though, and it doesn't
really change my basic approach wrt trustworthiness.
"Clearly, our mileage varies - I don't mean to suggest that your
apprehensions are groundless. The US clearly *is* more gun-happy than
many other cultures. But could it be that part of what you're
experiencing is simply that disconnect of being in a culture different
from the one you're used to?"
--Jezebel
kig...@peak.org
J. Jasper
Sudden Massive Loss of Life wrote:
>
> In alt.callahans, D.J. wrote (article ID
> <dpoejucilnkedhhd0...@4ax.com>):
> >
> > Sudden Massive Loss of Life <meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
> > ] Okay then let me rephrase the above:
> > ]
> > ] The entire six billion people on this planet are in the "do not trust"
> > ] category until such a point as they prove to me they are deserving of my
> > ] trust.
> >
> > But at what cost ? ( emotionally and intellectualy, etc )
> >
> > Unless your food and water come from somewhere you trust... or you
> > grow it yourself...
> >
> > unless you generate your own electricity, or trust those who do, you
> > still have to trust those who made the generator.
> >
> > You have to trust someone, or you are without food, water, shelter,
> > transport, clothing etc.
> >
> > Or, you can be careful in your dealings with others.
> >
> > But to exist, you have to do some trusting of someone somewhere
> > sometime.
>
> With all due respect, I think some of you fellas are a bit idealistic
> with regards to this "trust" issue.
>
I'm not so sure. I think they're talking about a different territory
than you are. For example:
> I can tell you that living in Los Angeles and working "in the Business"
> that "trust no-one" is a pretty quickly learned lesson for new blood.
Of course. That's because it's show bidness. On the other hand, if I
were talking about working at a Zen retreat, the level of trust you need
to thrive in the LA entertainment scene would be a titanic hindrance.
> Unfortunately this is a necessary attitude in big cities.
I think "in certain social groups in big cities" might be more accurate
for me.
> Lots of good
> solid folks here but lots of indecent and unsavory individuals as well
> (and everybody inbetween).
>
> Christ-like "trust everyone and love them all unconditionally" is an
> exceptionally naive attitude, regardless of the piety behind it.
>
> After all, they crucified Christ.
>
> Remember that.
Given his goal, Christ made the only choice he could in trusting
people. D'you think if he came back he would have said "Well, *that*
was a mistake! I shoulda never trusted people like that!"
Oh, wait, he did come back... <wry grin>
Andreas Schaefer
<meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
snip
>Why do you think I have an "inability to trust anyone"? I never said
>"I'll never trust anyone ever".. or maybe I did.. that's not what I
>meant, if so. Trust No-One until they have proven to me that they are
>deserving of my trust. This is an entirely different thing.
>
As others have pointed out trust or distrust seem to be selffulfilling
prophecies sometimes. So I prefer trust everyone[1] until proven un
trustworthy. The equivalent of innocent until proven guilty.
Andreas
1: within reason: second hand car dealers, politicians and other
salesmen deserve some more caution.
sfw
Pat Kight wrote:
>
> Arri London wrote:
> > However, since moving to the US and this particular
> > locality, I trust very very few people.
> >
> > While talking to a friend in London about certain types of
> > vehicle vanity plates, he said I should approach one of the
> > drivers to chat about it.
> > My instant response rather shocked my friend: 'Are you out
> > of your mind? People around here are armed! There is no way
> > I would approach anyone here in their car for any reason.'
>
> Jezebel acknowledges that she lives in small-town Western America, where
> the general level of distrust and fear is probably a bit lower than it
> is in, say, the urban East. But violent crime rates in her little town
> aren't very much lower than they are in the cities, and the relatively
> lower population density actually makes it a bit more likely that one
> might personally encounter violence and other Bad Things...
>
> "Even so, I do the sort of thing you mention all the time - asking
> strangers about their license plates, talking to people on the street,
> etc. - with remarkably few ill effects.
And I'm going to agree with Jez here. I talk to strangers (within
reason) without a problem.
And I live in a "transitional" neighborhood in a largish city.
Arri, where are you? (generally. IYDMMA)
Sarah
John Vinson
<kal...@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
>Some of us have had our trusted abused over and over again. and had it
>ground into our souls that trusting people just made it easier for them
>to hurt you.
My deep sympathies. I guess I've been very fortunate.
>Even so, we try to come to terms with it. (do a google search for my
>poem "Armor" that I've posted here once or twice)
I remember it, Leonard. Chills....
>The problem is that society isn't nearly hard enough on people who abuse
>trust in "harmless" ways.
An eternal problem.
John Vinson
<meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
>My above statement does not imply that I assume everyone I meet is a
>violent sociopath. You said that, not I.
I realized after I posted it that that was excessively hyperbolic.
Sorry!
I think that J. Jasper is on target with the "continuum of trust"
rather than stark trusted/not trusted categories. In small-town Parma,
Idaho I'm going to be at a different (more trusting by default) point
on that continuum than either you or I would be in the entertainment
business community in LA.
J. Jasper
Andreas Schaefer wrote:
>
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:49:55 -0700, Sudden Massive Loss of Life
> <meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
>
> snip
> >Why do you think I have an "inability to trust anyone"? I never said
> >"I'll never trust anyone ever".. or maybe I did.. that's not what I
> >meant, if so. Trust No-One until they have proven to me that they are
> >deserving of my trust. This is an entirely different thing.
> >
> As others have pointed out trust or distrust seem to be selffulfilling
> prophecies sometimes. So I prefer trust everyone[1] until proven un
> trustworthy. The equivalent of innocent until proven guilty.
>
> Andreas
>
> 1: within reason: second hand car dealers, politicians and other
> salesmen deserve some more caution.
>
I wouldn't trust someone I'd just met with keys to my apartment and my
credit card numbers. I *would* trust some people with it, though. I'll
trust someone I just met with certain things. Just not everything.
D.J.
] > But at what cost ? ( emotionally and intellectualy, etc )
] >
] > Unless your food and water come from somewhere you trust... or you
] > grow it yourself...
] >
] > unless you generate your own electricity, or trust those who do, you
] > still have to trust those who made the generator.
] >
] > You have to trust someone, or you are without food, water, shelter,
] > transport, clothing etc.
] >
] > Or, you can be careful in your dealings with others.
] >
] > But to exist, you have to do some trusting of someone somewhere
] > sometime.
] With all due respect, I think some of you fellas are a bit idealistic
I think you miss my point.
You said you trust no one.
And I asked where do you get your food and water ?
You have to trust, somewhat, the places where you get your food and
water. At the least, watch the news for bad water or bad food
locations and avoid them.
My questions had to do with your basic premise of 'trust no one',
while you keep refering to Holloywood. Two different scenarios.
] I can tell you that living in Los Angeles and working "in the Business"
] that "trust no-one" is a pretty quickly learned lesson for new blood.
] Unfortunately this is a necessary attitude in big cities. Lots of good
] solid folks here but lots of indecent and unsavory individuals as well
] (and everybody inbetween).
Many of us here have lived, or do live, in big cities.
] Christ-like "trust everyone and love them all unconditionally" is an
] exceptionally naive attitude, regardless of the piety behind it.
I'm not naive.
Many of the folks in here have been thru Hell.
I would say that many of us here know exactly what Holloywood and
publishers are like. If you write or sing, you have to keep an eagle
eye on the ones who are buying your works. Make sure you get the
correct royalty, and get everything in writing. A verbal agreement
is fine, if the other person is Jesus, otherwise get it in writing.
I hate to point this out, but you appear to have the fallacy that
sometimes creeps into the conversation when some new folks post
here. We are not a newsgroup of folks with our blinders on, nor are
our heads buried in the sand like ostriches.
] After all, they crucified Christ.
]
] Remember that.
I know it.
Buts its immaterial to this discussion.
D.J.
den...@tanstaafl.zipcon.net.invalid
forth, saying:
>Those three words seem to have become the catchphrase of the moment.
Eloquently said, Cap'n. I'm with ye.
--
dennyw
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government."
- Edward Abbey (1927-1989)
US author
BetNoir
> Why do you think I have an "inability to trust anyone"? I never said
> "I'll never trust anyone ever".. or maybe I did.. that's not what I
> meant, if so. Trust No-One until they have proven to me that they are
> deserving of my trust. This is an entirely different thing.
Aside from your nonanswer to my question...
Having done some Google research, I do have one other question for you.
How is Karl Malden's nose doing these days?
<EvilWillow>Yawwwwnnn...bored now</EvilWillow>
BetN, prolly in SMLoL's 'Not Trust' file now...
Crossfire
<meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
] In alt.callahans, John Vinson wrote (article ID
] <g52cjucqmr1ie13hj...@4ax.com>):
]> On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:12:51 -0700, Sudden Massive Loss of Life
]> <meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
]>
]> >Wait till you experience your first lawsuit brought on by someone you
]> >TRUSTED. Then your opinion will change.
]>
]> Again, to quote BetNoir:
]>
]> > >But better that then to live my life with no soul at all.
]>
]> I suppose they wouldn't have sued you if you had been suspicious? Is
]> it worth distrusting (and, to some extent, denigrating as liars and
]> crooks) every innocent person you will ever meet? Seems like a higher
]> price than even an unwarrented lawsuit.
]
] I was extremely kind, trusting, and generous -- treated this person with
] the upmost respect and integrity -- and in the end because of all that I
] get fucked and my heart broken, pending litigation.
]
] I've become a bit jaded by the whole experience. For me to trust anyone
] now they really have to earn that trust and prove to me their worth.
I can actually understand where you're coming from on this, though I don't
precisely share your point of view.
People have to earn most of my trust too, but I think I may allow it to
happen faster than you, and I definitely start out with a baseline level
of trust with even complete strangers. (It's a cynical kind of trust,
but it's trust nonetheless.)
Like other Callahanians, "trust no one" just doesn't work for me. But,
like I said, I understand where you're coming from.
BOYC?
--
Jon "Crossfire" Reid | jon <at> apeiros <dot> com (DeSPAM the Reply-To)
| http://www.apeiros.com/~jon
Crossfire
] Sudden Massive Loss of Life wrote:
]>
]> In alt.callahans, Beth Jackson wrote (article ID <24783-3D3661BA-148
]> @storefull-2137.public.lawson.webtv.net>):
]> >
]> > >>Wait till you experience
]> > >>your first lawsuit
]> > >>brought on by someone you
]> > >>TRUSTED.
]> > >>Then your opinion will change.
]> >
]> >
]> > >You no longer trust *anyone*
]> > >because
]> > >one person bent you over a barrel?
]> >
]> > Lordy... {:'-\
]> > <sympathetic sniffle>
]> >
]> > ..I'm not so sure *I'd* be completely trusting after that; after all, I
]> > haven't been in this person's shoes, so to speak.
]> > {:-\
]> > <sympathetic back-pat offered>
]> >
]> > <hmmms a bit>
]> >
]> > But at the same time, I'm not so sure that would make me distrust
]> > *everyone else, ever again*, either, perhaps.
]> > Be a lot more cautious and careful, sure
]> > --but not *completely and irrevocably* paranoid, either, probably (at
]> > least, I would hope;).
]>
]> "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
]>
]> Wise words.
]
] If you don't trust *anyone* but yourself, what does "shared pain is
] halved and shared joy is doubled" mean to you? How can you share
] anything as intimate as joy or pain if you can't trust the people you're
] sharing with?
mmmm...I think it's quite possible, even easy, to share without trust.
I often was quite generous with the other kids in school, for example, but
I didn't trust most of them any further than I could comfortably spit out
a rat.
Leonard & Brooke
<jvinson@STOP_SPAM.WysardOfInfo.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 00:33:39 -0700, Leonard & Brooke
><kal...@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
>
>>Some of us have had our trusted abused over and over again. and had it
>>ground into our souls that trusting people just made it easier for them
>>to hurt you.
>
>My deep sympathies. I guess I've been very fortunate.
>
>>Even so, we try to come to terms with it. (do a google search for my
>>poem "Armor" that I've posted here once or twice)
>
>I remember it, Leonard. Chills....
Yeah. Writing it meant re-experiencing the feelings (that's how all my
poetry gets written. Little wonder I write so little of it)
>>The problem is that society isn't nearly hard enough on people who abuse
>>trust in "harmless" ways.
>
>An eternal problem.
:-(
Beth Jackson
Okay. I know this is a lonnnnng post.
:-)
But I wanted to make sure
that I got this out in the proper context.
So....]
--------------------------------------
Sudden Massive Loss of Life:
>>>>Wait till you experience
>>>>your first lawsuit
>>>>brought on by someone you
>>>>TRUSTED.
>>>>Then your opinion will change.
BetNoir:
>>>You no longer trust *anyone*
>>>because
>>>one person bent you over a barrel?
Canary:
>>Lordy
Sudden Massive Loss of Life:
>"The road to hell
> is paved with good intentions"
>
>Wise words.
<puzzled look>
Huh?
--I mean, I know the saying, and I agree with you that those are indeed
(often, anyway:) wise words.
But how did you mean them there, if it's ok with you that I ask?
--Canary,
seeking clarification
(uh-oh...maybe Daddy was *right* when I overheard him hissing at Mom
once when I was in middle-school, "Maybe she really *is* retarded!"
..<gulp> {:-\)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The Canvas Canary"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love to paint,
I like to sing,
I have blonde hair, and
I am a little bit flighty:)
(Visit my website to see my art & me;)
Peter Eng
Canvas...@webtv.net (Beth Jackson) wrote:
> Sudden Massive Loss of Life:
>
>>"The road to hell
>> is paved with good intentions"
>>
>>Wise words.
>
> <puzzled look>
>
> Huh?
> --I mean, I know the saying, and I agree with you that those are indeed
> (often, anyway:) wise words.
> But how did you mean them there, if it's ok with you that I ask?
>
>
> --Canary,
> seeking clarification
> (uh-oh...maybe Daddy was *right* when I overheard him hissing at Mom
> once when I was in middle-school, "Maybe she really *is* retarded!"
> ..<gulp> {:-\)
>
No, I thought it sounded non-sequitur-ish myself. (No, not the troll; the
original meaning of "non sequitur".) Personally, I just breezed on by.
Some things, I just file under "beyond my ability to make sense of, no
matter how it's explained."
Peter Eng
--
If you don't understand a sentence, remove the part you don't understand and
see if it makes sense. If you can't understand the sentence no matter how
you reduce it, it probably won't make sense without help from the author.
Maureen O'Danu
> In alt.callahans, John Vinson wrote (article ID
> > On 17 Jul 2002 12:54:30 -0700, bet...@earthlink.net (BetNoir) wrote:
> >
> > >Trust is what makes us human and - ultimately - humane. It is what
> > >allows us to believe that this Place can exist at all. And in a
> > >universe that exhorts us, compels us not to trust, that is something
> > >special. And I, for one, will not throw that away on a whim and a
> > >prayer.
> > >
> > >I will trust. I will believe. I will hold faith.
> > >
> > >And my heart may be broken for it, many times over. My soul may be
> > >shattered for it.
> > >
> >
> > satire.
> >
> > "Bet, may I offer you three or four BsOYC? That was eloquent!"
>
> Wait till you experience your first lawsuit brought on by someone you
> TRUSTED. Then your opinion will change.
>
is doing some very dangerous things, and there are specific people/groups in
the government that do not seem to have my/our best interests at heart, I
agree with Bet that trust is crucial. Not *blind* trust (and I'm sure Bet
wasn't implying that we should trust blindly), but the basic assumption that
until proven otherwise, most people are mostly decent.
I got divorced over twelve years ago from a man who had physically,
emotionally, and sexually abused me for six years. My *first* goal after
the divorce was to rebuild my ability to trust, starting with my ability to
trust myself (if I had trusted my own judgment, I probably wouldn't have
married him...I married out of loneliness and fear of the big wide world).
It took half a decade or so, but it was definitely worth it.
If Bet has a trust-busting life situation, I hope she can rebuild her trust.
I hope *you* can rebuild yours. It is never wrong to verify facts, but to
assume untrustworthiness is to miss out on a great deal.
Maureen O'Danu (Hack in Training)
Commit to your dreams and the impossible becomes acheivable
Maureen O'Danu
"Sudden Massive Loss of Life" <meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.179f99d1c...@west.usenetserver.com...
> In alt.callahans, John Vinson wrote (article ID
> <6vtbju05cda5jb1ns...@4ax.com>):
> > On 17 Jul 2002 12:54:30 -0700, bet...@earthlink.net (BetNoir) wrote:
> >
> > >Trust is what makes us human and - ultimately - humane. It is what
> > >allows us to believe that this Place can exist at all. And in a
> > >universe that exhorts us, compels us not to trust, that is something
> > >special. And I, for one, will not throw that away on a whim and a
> > >prayer.
> > >
> > >I will trust. I will believe. I will hold faith.
> > >
> > >And my heart may be broken for it, many times over. My soul may be
> > >shattered for it.
> > >
> > >But better that then to live my life with no soul at all.
> >
> > "Preach it, Sister!" says the Wysard, without any trace of irony or
> > satire.
> >
> > "Bet, may I offer you three or four BsOYC? That was eloquent!"
>
> Wait till you experience your first lawsuit brought on by someone you
> TRUSTED. Then your opinion will change.
>
Whoops!!!! sorry, John. It was SMLL I was replying to. Lost track of
headers for a moment there.
--
Maureen O'Danu
>
> "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
>
> Wise words.
>
Which have nothing to do with the subject at hand. As Andreas pointed out,
trust is to some extent a cost-benefit calculation. For most people,
quality of life (benefit) greatly increases if they take the choice to
assume trustworthiness, while betrayals of trust (cost) are reduced in most
cases. I'm not saying you shouldn't wear a rubber. I'm only saying that
assuming she's lying before she gets two words out is demeaning and
ultimately leads to a self-fulfilling prophecy ("Well, if he's going to
assume I'm lying and cheating no matter what I do, I might as well lie and
cheat")
Maureen O'Danu
> In alt.callahans, John Vinson wrote (article ID
> > On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:07:56 -0700, Sudden Massive Loss of Life
> > <meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
> >
> > >The entire six billion people on this planet are in the "do not trust"
my
> > >trust.
> >
> > That's what I feared you meant. You have my sympathy; I couldn't live
> > like that.
> >
> > I guess I don't have such neat boxes. As noted elsewhere in this
> > thread, my default assumption on meeting a stranger is that they are a
> > decent human being; I'd trust them within normal limits (i.e. I
> > wouldn't ask a stranger to hold on to my wallet while I take a swim)
> > but I wouldn't assume that every person I meet is a sociopath who will
> > do something dreadful if I let up my vigilance for a second.
>
> violent sociopath. You said that, not I.
>
continues that SMLoL is not talking about inability to ever trust, but about
the far end of the cautionary end of the continuum of trust. Which IMO (and
in many of yours) is too far...but is also not "won't ever trust". The
abiltiy to trust is a skill and a choice. After being betrayed, it is often
natural to refuse to allow onself to trust for a time, after which the
skills need to be rebuilt.
It looks from here that maybe we're being too harsh with SMLoL. It looks
like sie made a comment from the hip and we took it and ran with it.
J. Jasper
Agreed. That's sorta what I've been trying to get at. I also think the
sympathy posts might have come across, even though they weren't
intended, as a bit condescending.
Arri London
Of course there is that, but my fears aren't in the least
groundless. Travelling abroad has never given me any grounds
for 'nervousness' or fear. I'm not a timid person and in
London would have wandered around anywhere at any time day
or not.
That isn't something I will ever do here for anything other
than the direst emergency. I've lived in the US on and off
for many years. While there is always a slight cultural
disconnect, there is no possible way I can trust anyone with
a gun.
Arri London
Albuquerque. For the US, the crime rate is probably on a
par, but it is a lot worse in most respects than anywhere in
the UK.
BetNoir
>
> @earthlink.net>):
> > Sudden Massive Loss of Life wrote:
> >
> > > Why do you think I have an "inability to trust anyone"? I never said
> > > "I'll never trust anyone ever".. or maybe I did.. that's not what I
> > > meant, if so. Trust No-One until they have proven to me that they are
> > > deserving of my trust. This is an entirely different thing.
> >
> > Aside from your nonanswer to my question...
> >
> > Having done some Google research, I do have one other question for you.
> >
> > How is Karl Malden's nose doing these days?
> >
> > <EvilWillow>Yawwwwnnn...bored now</EvilWillow>
> >
> > BetN, prolly in SMLoL's 'Not Trust' file now...
>
> adequate enough?
About a minute's worth - using that addy.
Why, am I slipping in my old age? :>
BetN, did just have a birthday...
Freyja
| >
| > > Why do you think I have an "inability to trust anyone"? I never
said
| > > "I'll never trust anyone ever".. or maybe I did.. that's not what
I
| > > meant, if so. Trust No-One until they have proven to me that they
are
| > > deserving of my trust. This is an entirely different thing.
| >
| > Aside from your nonanswer to my question...
| >
| > Having done some Google research, I do have one other question for
you.
| >
| > How is Karl Malden's nose doing these days?
| >
| > <EvilWillow>Yawwwwnnn...bored now</EvilWillow>
| >
| > BetN, prolly in SMLoL's 'Not Trust' file now...
|
| adequate enough?
It was a dead giveaway for me. I gave you a chance anyway. I'm too
happy at the moment to do anything less.
--
Freyja (despam me)
went from Land O' Lakes to Land O' Quakes
Silicon Shaman
"Arri London" <bio...@ic.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3D3C928B...@ic.ac.uk...
Probably, but parts of the UK are working hard to catch up. :o(
We've got a gangwar going on in Chapeltown, Leeds [Yardie, Jamaican drug
gangs]
Body counts at 13.5 [one's in ICU and not expected to live] for a 7 week
period.
Having said that, you'd still probably be safer walking alone there than a
lot of places in US.
--
Silicon Shaman.
There are very few personal problems that cant be solved by a suitable
application of high explosives.
Dane Anderson
> Albuquerque. For the US, the crime rate is probably on a
> par, but it is a lot worse in most respects than anywhere in
> the UK.
Uh, WHICH Albuquerque? I know of three. Each in a different state.
--
Sometimes my wife wakes up grumpy.
The rest of the time she lets me sleep in.
Dane Anderson.
John Vinson
<meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
>It bugs me when I try to participate in a non-flame group with really no
>intention of "trolling" and end up being dismissed as a troll anyway
>because of a political opinion I express on some thread or another.
>
>Expressing opinions and trolling are two different things.
>
Just to note... I didn't consider your response a troll. I found it
upsetting, but only in the sense that it's so saddening that you have
been pushed to such a painful (for me it would be anyway) state of
distrust and isolation.
BOYC?
Arri London
But of course! We've had weeks with five or six murders and
no gang war at all. Manslaughter isn't always counted in
with the murders so occasionally the numbers are probably
higher.
What makes it worse, if poss, is the fact that there are a
lot of really stupid criminals around here. Some of the
murders are 'accidental' when the assailant(s) get the
address or the car wrong. A baby fell into that category
some time back. A woman was murdered by 'accident' by being
in the line of fire when one slimeball tried to shoot
another.
Arri London
Never heard of any other than the one (and first) in New
Mexico.
Where are the other two?
Lee S. Billings
meowa...@bungmunch.com says...
>It bugs me when I try to participate in a non-flame group with really no
>intention of "trolling" and end up being dismissed as a troll anyway
>because of a political opinion I express on some thread or another.
You have been partially a victim of unfortunate coincidence. Your screen name
is similar to those used by someone who *has* been trolling the group, nastily,
for several months, and your initial post in this thread had a similar flavor.
I believe a lot of people may have initially taken you as a sock-puppet for
this other person; however, I do not believe that the troll is capable of
writing a coherent, properly-spelled and -punctuated sentence, so I at least
have concluded that you are probably not he.
Celine
--
"Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring."
-- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_
Paul R.
> It bugs me when I try to participate in a non-flame
> group with really no intention of "trolling" and end
> up being dismissed as a troll anyway because of
> a political opinion I express on some thread or another.
"Fair enough. But from what I've seen of you lately all I can say is if you
don't want to be thought of as a troll, don't act like one."
Paul R.
--
"The wages of courage is death, lad, but it's the wages of everything else,
too."
Tim Powers, _The Drawing of the Dark_
--------------------------------
Mind the SPAM TRAP!
See what I think of movies at http://home.att.net/~paulhr/index.htm
BetNoir
> It bugs me when I try to participate in a non-flame group with really no
> intention of "trolling" and end up being dismissed as a troll anyway
> because of a political opinion I express on some thread or another.
>
> Expressing opinions and trolling are two different things.
Well, I suppose if one were to consider your discussions of Mr. Malden's
nose to be 'political opinions'....
Crossfire
<meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
] In alt.callahans, Freyja wrote (article ID <iE2%8.1358$eo7.44848352
] @newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>):
]>
]> "Sudden Massive Loss of Life" <meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote in
]
] It bugs me when I try to participate in a non-flame group with really no
] intention of "trolling" and end up being dismissed as a troll anyway
] because of a political opinion I express on some thread or another.
]
] Expressing opinions and trolling are two different things.
I didn't/don't regard your posts as trolls, either in this thread or
in other threads in alt.callahans (at least, those posts I've seen...I
maintain a fairly extensive thread scorefile for a.c). I also haven't
felt a need to "check your references" via Google (to coin a phrase).
Care for a BOYC?
Andreas Schaefer
Billings) wrote:
>In article <MPG.17a73141f...@west.usenetserver.com>,
>meowa...@bungmunch.com says...
>
>>It bugs me when I try to participate in a non-flame group with really no
>>intention of "trolling" and end up being dismissed as a troll anyway
>>because of a political opinion I express on some thread or another.
>
>You have been partially a victim of unfortunate coincidence. Your screen name
>is similar to those used by someone who *has* been trolling the group, nastily,
>for several months, and your initial post in this thread had a similar flavor.
>I believe a lot of people may have initially taken you as a sock-puppet for
>this other person; however, I do not believe that the troll is capable of
>writing a coherent, properly-spelled and -punctuated sentence, so I at least
>have concluded that you are probably not he.
>
Seconded with offer of BOHC for meowatilla
( do you really want to use that name/handle and how does one
pronounce it?)
Andreas
As the carrier of acws.de is goint through financial problems
currently (http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/data/jk-31.05.02-005/)
It would be a good idea if you updated your address-books to acws at gmx dot net
which should not be affected. Alternatively you might try ac at gh4 dot de
J. Jasper
BetNoir wrote:
>
> Sudden Massive Loss of Life wrote:
>
> > It bugs me when I try to participate in a non-flame group with really no
> > intention of "trolling" and end up being dismissed as a troll anyway
> > because of a political opinion I express on some thread or another.
> >
> > Expressing opinions and trolling are two different things.
>
> Well, I suppose if one were to consider your discussions of Mr. Malden's
> nose to be 'political opinions'....
>
I'm glad someone here other than me remembers this group.
Auke Reitsma
wrote:
> Seconded with offer of BOHC for meowatilla
> ( do you really want to use that name/handle and how does one
> pronounce it?)
I bet that's "Meow Atilla". A cat's sound and a misspelling of
the name Attila (as in Attila the Hun, who was an 'inconvenience'
to the Roman Empire, about 450 AD)
Combined with "Sudden Massive Loss of Life" I suppose that
implies he is a Kzin ... ;-)
--
Greetings from
_____
/_|__| Auke Reitsma, Delft, The Netherlands.
/ | \ -------------------------------------
Remove SPAMBLOCK from my address ...
Miche
"J. Jasper" <jsja...@attbi.com> wrote:
You're definitely not the only one.
Miche (Usenet since 1994)
--
And you may say to yourself "Well -- how did I get here?"
-- Talking Heads, _Once in a Lifetime_
Auke Reitsma
<meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
> In alt.callahans, Auke Reitsma wrote (article ID <3d3ee91c.16956472
> @news.nl.net>):
> > On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:06:52 GMT, a...@acws.de(Andreas Schaefer)
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Seconded with offer of BOHC for meowatilla
> > > ( do you really want to use that name/handle and how does one
> > > pronounce it?)
> >
> > I bet that's "Meow Atilla". A cat's sound and a misspelling of
> > the name Attila (as in Attila the Hun, who was an 'inconvenience'
> > to the Roman Empire, about 450 AD)
> > Combined with "Sudden Massive Loss of Life" I suppose that
> > implies he is a Kzin ... ;-)
>
> Interesting. Never had my handle deconstructed before. :)
Now did I win that bet?
Or should I first commit the City of Atro -- by including you in
yourself?
David C Pugh
"Auke Reitsma" <Auke.R...@SPAMBLOCKnet.hcc.nl> wrote in message
news:3d3f0795...@news.nl.net...
> > > > Seconded with offer of BOHC for meowatilla
> > > > ( do you really want to use that name/handle and how does one
> > > > pronounce it?)
> > >
> > > I bet that's "Meow Atilla". A cat's sound and a misspelling of
> > > the name Attila (as in Attila the Hun, who was an 'inconvenience'
> > > to the Roman Empire, about 450 AD)
Known to the Germans as Etzel, and now I'm wondering about that there
American car......
> > > Combined with "Sudden Massive Loss of Life" I suppose that
> > > implies he is a Kzin ... ;-)
> >
> > Interesting. Never had my handle deconstructed before. :)
Does that mean you'll have to hold yourself by the edge now? ;-)
> Now did I win that bet?
> Or should I first commit the City of Atro -- by including you in
> yourself?
I like that one, has a kind of ancient Greek mythic ring to it.....
David
Andreas Schaefer
<meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
>In alt.callahans, Auke Reitsma wrote (article ID <3d3ee91c.16956472
>@news.nl.net>):
>> On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:06:52 GMT, a...@acws.de(Andreas Schaefer)
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Seconded with offer of BOHC for meowatilla
>> > ( do you really want to use that name/handle and how does one
>> > pronounce it?)
>>
>> I bet that's "Meow Atilla". A cat's sound and a misspelling of
>> the name Attila (as in Attila the Hun, who was an 'inconvenience'
>> to the Roman Empire, about 450 AD)
>> Combined with "Sudden Massive Loss of Life" I suppose that
>> implies he is a Kzin ... ;-)
>
>Interesting. Never had my handle deconstructed before. :)
>
And? Is it true?
( were we conducting: "Men-Kzim Wars 23" ?)
Matthew Russotto
>four years ago. Meowatilla is short for "Reverend Meowatilla Al'
>Rashad, founder of the National Association for the Advancement of Non-
>Delusional People" in response to some people hanging out in
>alt.horror.werewolves who believed they were, in fact, werewolves and
>were creating a support group for other "afflicted" individuals.
Oh, I remember you now. Got involved in a multi-group crossposted
flamewar which spilled over into rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata for no
particular reason.
Typical crap from you, then
"You had better COOL IT WITH THAT ATTITUDE, mister. I'll rip out your
fucking eyeballs and skullfuck you to death. Do you understand this?"
Mike, maybe a Hemlock for the Reverend? No? Ahh, you're a spoilsport
sometimes, Callahan.
--
Matthew T. Russotto mrus...@speakeasy.net
=====
Every time you buy a CD, a programmer is kicked in the teeth.
Every time you buy or rent a DVD, a programmer is kicked where it counts.
Every time they kick a programmer, 1000 users are kicked too, and harder.
A proposed US law called the CBDTPA would ban the PC as we know it.
This is not a joke, not an exaggeration. This is real.
http://www.cryptome.org/broadbandits.htm
BetNoir
> Actually, my friends call me "Azzy" but I switched to Meowatilla about
> four years ago. Meowatilla is short for "Reverend Meowatilla Al'
> Rashad, founder of the National Association for the Advancement of Non-
> Delusional People" in response to some people hanging out in
> alt.horror.werewolves who believed they were, in fact, werewolves and
> were creating a support group for other "afflicted" individuals.
ooof!
Bad flashbacks to unpleasant experiences with some Masquerade LARPers
who seriously needed a clue by four...
Freyja
"Miche" <michec...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:michecampbell-41F...@news.itconsult.net...
| In article <3D3EDC0B...@attbi.com>,
| "J. Jasper" <jsja...@attbi.com> wrote:
|
| > BetNoir wrote:
| > >
| > > Sudden Massive Loss of Life wrote:
| > >
| > > > It bugs me when I try to participate in a non-flame group with
really no
| > > > intention of "trolling" and end up being dismissed as a troll
anyway
| > > > because of a political opinion I express on some thread or
another.
| > > >
| > > > Expressing opinions and trolling are two different things.
| > >
| > > Well, I suppose if one were to consider your discussions of Mr.
Malden's
| > > nose to be 'political opinions'....
| > >
| >
| > I'm glad someone here other than me remembers this group.
|
| You're definitely not the only one.
The red-haired wench with the harem remembers as well. <G>
--
Freyja the NurseWenchWitch (despam me)
Queen of the Sim City Realm, Royal Order of W.H.I.N.E
www.eclecticeel.com
Goddesses R Us: How may you serve Us?
Dane Anderson
>
> Dane Anderson wrote:
> >
> > Arri London wrote:
> > > par, but it is a lot worse in most respects than anywhere in
> > > the UK.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sometimes my wife wakes up grumpy.
> > The rest of the time she lets me sleep in.
> > Dane Anderson.
>
> Never heard of any other than the one (and first) in New
> Mexico.
> Where are the other two?
I understand that there is one in New York, and I believe I remember
seeing one in California. Of course, I could be wrong about both
of those. I've actually BEEN in the one in New Mexico.
Auke Reitsma
<meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
> In alt.callahans, Auke Reitsma wrote (article ID <3d3f0795.1436985
> @news.nl.net>):
> > On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:51:44 -0700, Sudden Massive Loss of Life
> > <meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In alt.callahans, Auke Reitsma wrote (article ID <3d3ee91c.16956472
> > > @news.nl.net>):
> > > > On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:06:52 GMT, a...@acws.de(Andreas Schaefer)
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Seconded with offer of BOHC for meowatilla
> > > > > ( do you really want to use that name/handle and how does one
> > > > > pronounce it?)
> > > >
> > > > I bet that's "Meow Atilla". A cat's sound and a misspelling of
> > > > the name Attila (as in Attila the Hun, who was an 'inconvenience'
> > > > to the Roman Empire, about 450 AD)
> > > > Combined with "Sudden Massive Loss of Life" I suppose that
> > > > implies he is a Kzin ... ;-)
> > >
> > > Interesting. Never had my handle deconstructed before. :)
> >
> > Now did I win that bet?
> > Or should I first commit the City of Atro -- by including you in
> > yourself?
>
> Actually, my friends call me "Azzy" but I switched to Meowatilla about
> four years ago. Meowatilla is short for "Reverend Meowatilla Al'
> Rashad, founder of the National Association for the Advancement of Non-
> Delusional People"
Ewww .... a resident of the City of Luna ... and you had better
get other friends. Azzy in combination with your presumed
intelligence or in combination with the collateral damage after a
"Sudden Massive Loss of Life" is NOT respectful ... :-)
Hm, SMaLL ??? SM-LoL ??? >;->
Auke Reitsma
<davi...@online.no> wrote:
> "Auke Reitsma" <Auke.R...@SPAMBLOCKnet.hcc.nl> wrote in message
> news:3d3f0795...@news.nl.net...
> > On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:51:44 -0700, Sudden Massive Loss of Life
> > <meowa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Seconded with offer of BOHC for meowatilla
> > > > > ( do you really want to use that name/handle and how does one
> > > > > pronounce it?)
> > > >
> > > > I bet that's "Meow Atilla". A cat's sound and a misspelling of
> > > > the name Attila (as in Attila the Hun, who was an 'inconvenience'
> > > > to the Roman Empire, about 450 AD)
>
> Known to the Germans as Etzel, and now I'm wondering about that there
> American car......
;-) Can't you afFORD it?
> > > > Combined with "Sudden Massive Loss of Life" I suppose that
> > > > implies he is a Kzin ... ;-)
> > >
> > > Interesting. Never had my handle deconstructed before. :)
>
> Does that mean you'll have to hold yourself by the edge now? ;-)
> > Now did I win that bet?
> > Or should I first commit the City of Atro -- by including you in
> > yourself?
>
> I like that one, has a kind of ancient Greek mythic ring to it.....
Yup. And there are more:
The City of Tena -- where Tena Lady lives.