Image tools for VMS
Jack Fortune
Greetings all!
I am researching the range of available VMS tools that can be used to
scan, store, and display images of paper documents.
Are there scanners that can be used directly with VMS?
What are the best methods to display images stored on a VMS host?
Are there software products designed to build this kind of
application?
Any information would be appreciated.
Jack Fortune
Fedex Trade Networks
Atlanta, Georgia
Fred Kleinsorge
"Jack Fortune" <jcfor...@fedex.com> wrote in message
news:hhlrlv01mku5mrg4d...@4ax.com...
>
> Greetings all!
>
> I am researching the range of available VMS tools that can be used to
> scan, store, and display images of paper documents.
>
> Are there scanners that can be used directly with VMS?
>
Due to low demand, I believe that the tools that used to exist have mostly
disappeared back when scanners plugged into SCSI ports. Todays scanners
mostly are USB-only (a few parallel port ones still are around). We do not
have a USB scanner driver.
If there is a demand for them, we can always look into it. It might be
cheaper to simply scan the documents on a PC, or get a scanner that can send
the images via email directly.
> What are the best methods to display images stored on a VMS host?
>
XV is the generic tool of choice for most X11 users. It's shareware (free
version, or you can pay for a better version with support I believe).
> Are there software products designed to build this kind of
> application?
>
All the common image libraries (libpng, gdlib, libxpm, zlib, jpeg, etc) are
available for people developing imaging applications.
> Any information would be appreciated.
>
Other people in the field may have specific solutions.
Since I recognize the company ;-) as fairly large, if you have a HP account
manager, they can work with you. Or I can point you at someone like Sue
Skonetski who can hook you up with knowledgeable people.
Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40
You can find some interesting image processing tools and viewers at the
DECwindows archive:
The main ones are XV and Imagemagick.
Patrick
In article <hhlrlv01mku5mrg4d...@4ax.com>,
Jack Fortune <jcfor...@fedex.com> writes:
> I am researching the range of available VMS tools that can be used to
> scan, store, and display images of paper documents.
>
> Are there scanners that can be used directly with VMS?
>
> What are the best methods to display images stored on a VMS host?
>
> Are there software products designed to build this kind of
> application?
--
===============================================================================
pmo...@ath.cena.fr (CENA) ______ ___ _ (Patrick MOREAU)
more...@decus.fr (DECUS) / / / / /| /|
CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE / /___/ / / | / | __ __ __ __
BP 205 / / / / |/ | | | |__| |__ |__| | |
94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX / / :: / / | |__| | \ |__ | | |__|
http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/ http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/
===============================================================================
VAXman-
>
>"Jack Fortune" <jcfor...@fedex.com> wrote in message
>news:hhlrlv01mku5mrg4d...@4ax.com...
>>
>> Greetings all!
>>
>> I am researching the range of available VMS tools that can be used to
>> scan, store, and display images of paper documents.
>>
>> Are there scanners that can be used directly with VMS?
>>
>
>Due to low demand, I believe that the tools that used to exist have mostly
>disappeared back when scanners plugged into SCSI ports. Todays scanners
>mostly are USB-only (a few parallel port ones still are around). We do not
>have a USB scanner driver.
'Tis a shame too... My HP SCSI scanner does a real nice job and quickly
too. I've seen new USB scanners in operation and they are slow.
If Jack can fine a SCSI scanner, he should contact me via a private email
for the scanner software.
>If there is a demand for them, we can always look into it. It might be
>cheaper to simply scan the documents on a PC, or get a scanner that can send
>the images via email directly.
PeeCee? That's not a solution.
--
VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"
Rik Steenwinkel
} If Jack can fine a SCSI scanner, he should contact me via a private email
} for the scanner software.
At least Epson, Canon and Agfa still have them.
--
// Rik Steenwinkel # VMS mercenary # Enschede, Netherlands
// 1024D/CDBAE5C1
Fred Kleinsorge
<VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message
news:00A25A5F...@SendSpamHere.ORG...
> In article <ttl7b.4313$NZ5....@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"
<my-las...@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:
> >
> >"Jack Fortune" <jcfor...@fedex.com> wrote in message
> >news:hhlrlv01mku5mrg4d...@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> Greetings all!
> >>
> >> I am researching the range of available VMS tools that can be used to
> >> scan, store, and display images of paper documents.
> >>
> >> Are there scanners that can be used directly with VMS?
> >>
> >
> >Due to low demand, I believe that the tools that used to exist have
mostly
> >disappeared back when scanners plugged into SCSI ports. Todays scanners
> >mostly are USB-only (a few parallel port ones still are around). We do
not
> >have a USB scanner driver.
>
> 'Tis a shame too... My HP SCSI scanner does a real nice job and quickly
> too. I've seen new USB scanners in operation and they are slow.
>
This isn't really a USB issue (at least not a USB 2.0 issue) mostly it's the
fact that scanners now cost $99 retail. They cost a whole lot more when
they had SCSI interfaces.
>
> >If there is a demand for them, we can always look into it. It might be
> >cheaper to simply scan the documents on a PC, or get a scanner that can
send
> >the images via email directly.
>
> PeeCee? That's not a solution.
>
Well, maybe not one _you_ like - but it is an option.
VAXman-
>
><VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message
>news:00A25A5F...@SendSpamHere.ORG...
>> In article <ttl7b.4313$NZ5....@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"
><my-las...@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:
>> >
>> >"Jack Fortune" <jcfor...@fedex.com> wrote in message
>> >news:hhlrlv01mku5mrg4d...@4ax.com...
>> >>
>> >> Greetings all!
>> >>
>> >> I am researching the range of available VMS tools that can be used to
>> >> scan, store, and display images of paper documents.
>> >>
>> >> Are there scanners that can be used directly with VMS?
>> >>
>> >
>> >Due to low demand, I believe that the tools that used to exist have
>mostly
>> >disappeared back when scanners plugged into SCSI ports. Todays scanners
>> >mostly are USB-only (a few parallel port ones still are around). We do
>not
>> >have a USB scanner driver.
>>
>> 'Tis a shame too... My HP SCSI scanner does a real nice job and quickly
>> too. I've seen new USB scanners in operation and they are slow.
>>
>
>This isn't really a USB issue (at least not a USB 2.0 issue) mostly it's the
>fact that scanners now cost $99 retail. They cost a whole lot more when
>they had SCSI interfaces.
Probably not. It's most likely an issue with trying to fit into the
plug-and-pray cheap-ass commodity computing marketspace. You get what
you pay for... Some of this new stuff is so cheap that I figure you
could crush it under the weigh of its 10 page owner's manual if set
atop the device.
Keith Cayemberg
for OpenVMS...
AVS
http://www.avs.com/software/soft_t/index.html
DISLIN
http://www.dislin.de/
ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/grafik/dislin
EasyCopy
http://www.augrin.com/prod/ec/easycopy.html
Express Designer
http://alphase.com/aex/Announcement.html
Gino
http://www.gino-graphics.com/products/gino.htm
http://www.gino-graphics.com/products/graf.htm
http://www.gino-graphics.com/products/menu.htm
http://www.gino-graphics.com/products/surf.htm
Gnom
http://srs.dl.ac.uk/NCD/computing/manual.gnom.html
GnuPlot
http://www.gnuplot.info/
GTK+
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/gtk.html
ImageMagick
http://www.imagemagick.org/
ftp://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/
http://freshmeat.net/projects/imagemagick/?topic_id=100
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/IMAGEMAGICK/
JPEG
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/jpeg_6b_crop/
Mesa3D
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/Mesa3D/
PostScript
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/PLOT_XPS/
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/PLOTPS54/
POV-Ray
http://www.povray.org/
http://www.utexas.edu/cc/vms/apps/povray/
http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/~minus/
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/MEGAPOVRAY/
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/POVRAY_UTILS/
Sceda
http://www.cyberus.ca/~denism/sceda/sceda.html
Visual Numerics Products
http://www.vni.com/index.html
xv
http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/xv/
http://www.trilon.com/xv/
ftp://ftp.trilon.com/pub/xv/
There is no reason to believe that this approaches
a complete list of graphics software tools available
for OpenVMS. I do not recommend, endorse or vouch
for any of these products in regard to their quality or
usefulness for a specific purpose.
Cheers!
Keith Cayemberg
ICA GmbH - Hannover
Jack Fortune <jcfor...@fedex.com> wrote in message news:<hhlrlv01mku5mrg4d...@4ax.com>...
VAXman-
Thanks, this is a nice list! I nominate it for inclusion in the OpenVMS FAQ.
Hoff Hoffman
:Thanks, this is a nice list! I nominate it for inclusion in the OpenVMS FAQ.
I've forwarded a copy of the posting along to the maintainer of the
OpenVMS FAQ, as mail is the only way that the maintainer is relatively
certain to see this or other requests for inclusion.
I do not know if any of the packages here would also be candidates for
inclusion on the next OpenVMS Freeware, since that's being packaged up
Right Now.
---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------
For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq
--------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------
Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman OpenVMS Engineering hoff[at]hp.com
hea...@aracnet.com
> Let it not be said that there are no graphics imaging tools
> for OpenVMS...
<SNIP>
Wow! That's a list worth saving! Thanks for posting it! In fact was just
wondering about Imagemagik.
Zane
hea...@aracnet.com
> This isn't really a USB issue (at least not a USB 2.0 issue) mostly it's the
> fact that scanners now cost $99 retail. They cost a whole lot more when
> they had SCSI interfaces.
Last I checked (2-3 months ago when I bought a new scanner) you can still
get SCSI scanners. However, the price scales something like this; USB,
USB 2.0, Firewire, SCSI. I went with a USB 2.0 model despite my Mac only
supporting USB 1.1 at the moment, at the 300x300 resolution my old UMAX SCSI
scanner supported it's actually faster (I can't wait to try it at USB 2.0
speeds).
The point being, that at least for right now, the original poster can still
find SCSI scanners, it just takes some looking. The downside being that in
the future anything except the truely high-end, will probably be USB (it's
actually easier to find SCSI than Firewire).
Zane
Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr
>
>I am researching the range of available VMS tools that can be used to
>scan, store, and display images of paper documents.
>
>Are there scanners that can be used directly with VMS?
>
Dunno.
>What are the best methods to display images stored on a VMS host?
I tend to use a VMS-based webserver. But where do you want to display them?
Do you want to store images in a database (Rdb has good support) or as
separate files?
>
>Are there software products designed to build this kind of
>application?
We probably need more info on what kind of application you're talking about.
-- Alan
--
===============================================================================
Alan Winston --- WIN...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056
Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA 94025
===============================================================================
John Smith
>
> I am researching the range of available VMS tools that can be used to
> scan, store, and display images of paper documents.
>
> Are there scanners that can be used directly with VMS?
>
> What are the best methods to display images stored on a VMS host?
>
> Are there software products designed to build this kind of
> application?
>
> Any information would be appreciated.
Fujitsu and Kodak make/made high-end scanners that were capable of 30+ pages
per minute. I think that Fujitsu had VMS support at one time.
Ask the government (IRS) or a big insurance company - they handle lots of
paper which gets scanned.
You may want to check with the copier makers (Canon, Minolta, and others)
for their high-end scanners
I am assuming that you want to scan lots of documents, not 1-2 at a time.
John Smith
>
> I am researching the range of available VMS tools that can be used to
> scan, store, and display images of paper documents.
>
> Are there scanners that can be used directly with VMS?
>
> What are the best methods to display images stored on a VMS host?
>
> Are there software products designed to build this kind of
> application?
>
> Any information would be appreciated.
more..... in the PC/unix world there are scan accelerator boards available -
Kofax.com comes to mind. Fujitsu often bundles these boards with their
scanners.
As far as image format goes, Tiff is the usual standard for high-definition
scans but image sizes tend to be large >2Mb per image. Choice of formats
tends to be dictated by the types of original documents and the resolution
you need to retain.
Others have already touched on whether you want the images as just files or
as object (blobs) in a database. I have used blobs to store images of signed
account/swaps/repo and other high value agreements asscociated with specific
customer records in a relational db. Works fine.
John Smith
These guys used to do a ton of VMS-related stuff.
"Jack Fortune" <jcfor...@fedex.com> wrote in message
news:hhlrlv01mku5mrg4d...@4ax.com...
>
Carl Perkins
USB 1 is a speed bottleneck - it's effective sustained throughput isn't much
over 11 Mbits/sec. If you are scanning at 24 bits per pixel, you can do maybe
460,000 pixels per second. At 300dpi and scanning a document with a bit
of margin trimming so it is 8 inches wide, that gives you a maximum scan
rate down the page of just about 0.64 inches per second, or about 15.625
seconds to scan 10 inches of page (trimming a bit off the top and bottom
for margins, that's a full page). That's roughly the scanning speed of
a typical $99 scanner. If you bump the scan resolution up to 600 dpi for
the same document, USB 1 limits your throughput to the same data
rate but you're trying to send 4 times as many pixels, so it now takes
some 62.5 seconds to scan the same page. Your typical $99 scanner can
almost certainly scan at 1200dpi, which is pointless to do in most cases
like this but that doesn't stop people from trying, which is yet another 4
times as many pixels and therefore increases the scan time to some 250
seconds. Better consumer level scanners can scan at 2400 dpi or even
4800 dpi for the higher end versions, and a lot of them can send 48 bits
per pixel back to you (professional scanners can go to even higher
resolutions than that, but I don't know that you'd want to spend $20,000+
on a scanner unless your doing actual publishing work).
USB 2 doesn't have this problem. It is faster than Ultra SCSI and 3/4 as
fast as Ultra 2 (both of the wide variety, although as far as I know nobody
has ever produced any version of these in the narrow width) at 480 Mbits/sec
(60 MB/sec). That'll let you scan pretty fast.
I know this USB 1 info is accurate because my scanner at home, a
CanoScan 1220U (which is spiffy - the newer versions are likely to
be even spiffier; one nice thing is that it has only one cord, the
USB cord: no power cord as it is a low powered device which draws
its power from the USB), does become is USB limited in scan rate
somewhere near 300dpi for color scans.
--- Carl
Jack Fortune
Thanks to everyone for the replies. Perhaps I can clarify & expand a
little bit on our needs.
We currently run an application on our Alpha cluster to handle
customs brokerage processing for our customers. This is a somewhat
vintage application written in COBOL which stores data in RMS files.
We are beginning to investigate how we might be able to stop storing
all paper documents associated with our customs transactions by
developing some kind of image storage/retrieval system. This would be
used primarily by our employees working on PC desktop computers in
remote offices connected to the Alpha data center over a frame relay
WAN.
These PC workstations are running terminal emulation software to use
our VMS/COBOL application and they have web browsers, as well. I fear
that reconfiguring all of these machines with X-window servers will
not be a viable option. This leads me to believe that the best
approach for image viewing is to utilize a VMS web server to display
the image files to the users' desktops.
From many of the replies, I gather that there are SCSI scanners still
available that would connect to my Alpha's. Is there any way these
kind of scanners could be connected from a remote office? If not, we
would need scanners located in several dozen remote offices. This
would require a PC front end to scan paper & send images onto the
Alpha cluster.
We haven't given any thought yet to whether we would store image data
as separate RMS files or as blob's inside a dbms. If we went the dbms
route, we would probably be required to use Oracle.
once again thanks for all information,
Jack Fortune
JOUKJ
> Let it not be said that there are no graphics imaging tools
> for OpenVMS...
>
[snip]
>
> ImageMagick
> http://www.imagemagick.org/
> ftp://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/
Please change this to
http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/
since the FTP directory is somewhat "raw"
> http://freshmeat.net/projects/imagemagick/?topic_id=100
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/IMAGEMAGICK/
>
[snip]
Jouk
William Webb
VMS systems by a company in Norcross called
N.A. Technologies, but I have no idea if they still exist.
WWWebb
Jack Fortune <jcfor...@fedex.com> wrote in message news:<hhlrlv01mku5mrg4d...@4ax.com>...
Bob Koehler
> This would be
> used primarily by our employees working on PC desktop computers in
> remote offices connected to the Alpha data center over a frame relay
> WAN.
Since you've already got PCs in your shop, you should investigate
the possibility of scanning on the PCs and then downloading the
images to the web server.
If I was doing this, I'd be quite sure not to tie into a product
producing MS proprietary file types from the scan.
Keith Cayemberg
I found this Scanning Software that appears to support for OpenVMS.
Sorry, but I only found a Web-Site in German...
EasyCopy/Scan (see the list of supported scanners)
http://www.h-p-eurosoft.de/scanner/easycopy-scan/scannen.htm
It works with EasyCopy/X on OpenVMS
ftp://ftp.augrin.com/pub/OldDocumentation/ecxvmsus.pdf
http://www.h-p-eurosoft.de/imaging/easycopy/index.htm
DEC did have a scanning software at one time.
http://www.sysworks.com.au/disk$vaxdocdec952/decw$book/d3sjaaa1.decw$book
Perhaps a short list of Document Management Systems for VMS would help?
Redwood - Outrun
http://www.redwood.com/products/outrun/index.html
http://www.redwood.com/news/butlergrp/outrun.htm
Sec 1.01 - i-engine
http://www.sec101.ch/default_e.htm
http://www.sec101.ch/deutsch/paradocs.html
Swiftbase
http://www.swiftbase.com/applications2/document_mgr.html
http://www.swiftbase.com/utilities2/cd_archiving.html
hp VTX
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/SP6405/SP6405PF.PDF
As stated earlier, I do not recommend, endorse or vouch
for any of these products in regard to their quality or
usefulness for a specific purpose.
Cheers!
Keith Cayemberg
ICA GmbH - Hannover, Germany
Jack Fortune <jcfor...@fedex.com> wrote in message news:<t45ulv0p1pqgleu3c...@4ax.com>...
> On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:37:52 -0400, Jack Fortune
> <jcfor...@fedex.com> wrote:
>
*SNIP*
Paul Repacholi
> I am researching the range of available VMS tools that can be used
> to scan, store, and display images of paper documents.
> Are there scanners that can be used directly with VMS?
> What are the best methods to display images stored on a VMS host?
> Are there software products designed to build this kind of
> application?
There was about 3 or 4 layered product on at least the Vax CONDIST
for this stuff. Or have they all been left to wither on the vine?
--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.
Jeff Morgan
It is very easy to set up a file share on Pathworks Advanced server that
can be served to the web via the OSU web server. In a theoretical customer
service invoice retrieval application, here are the basic steps:
- map a drive letter to a Pathworks file share, for example Z: could be
mapped to a file share called "\\pwserver\documents" If possible, use an
ODS-5 formatted disk for the share. That way your filenames can be as large
as necessary to hold all the retrieval data. It is a poor man's way to
create an indexed database using the VMS file system, but it works. Users
don't need access to this file share, only the scanning station. Users will
retrieve them through the web server.
- scan your documents by any PC scanning method you choose
- save them as jpeg files directly to the VMS file share from your
scanning station. TIF and BMP are enormous. Be sure to use a format that
compresses the image data and is handled directly by any web browser. You
can use IMAGEMAGIK to create thumbnail pictures if desired.
- name the files by specific identifying data fields that you might want
to use for retrieval, for instance...
z:\invoices\customernum_invoicedate_invoicenum_sequence.jpg
This way you can use DCL lexical functions such as...
filename = f$search("webdrive:[invoices]*_*_9991234_*.jpg")
...to locate a specific invoice (991234) for retrieval by a web
script.
Organize the files by sub-directory if there will be huge numbers of
files. One application I wrote holds over 500,000 invoices for instant
retrieval. I broke them up by year, month and day so the directories would
be smaller and faster. Plus it makes archiving easier since you can peel off
a whole year at a time to tape. We eliminated microfiche with this
application.
- "map" the file share to OSU for retrieval, for example:
pass /inv/* /webdrive/invoices/*
this tells OSU to change an html request such as:
http://vms.server.com/inv/11111_20030101_9991234_001.jpg
to
webdrive:[invoices]11111_20030101_9991234_001.jpg
and display it in the web browser. You can password protect this web
share using normal VMS sysuaf usernames and passwords or a hardcoded
username and password.
- write a DCL web script that lists all the documents in the file share
or allows you to retrieve based on the fields in the filename. For example,
you could retreive documents by customer number, by invoice number, by date
or by sequence number. Or a combination of any and all fields. If you need a
sample OSU web script and form, let me know.
- A cheap trick is to have your cobol programs display the appropriate
filename on the screen, then the user can cut and paste the file name from
the terminal emulator into a web form to locate and display the file
- Web-enable your cobol programs so that it is totally point and click
and they can skip this last step.
- Add the file share to your daily backup routines in case the scanning
station gets a virus!
You can also have your retrieval web script run a cobol program and
display information from your RMS databases alongside the scanned document.
For OSU, you simply use the cobol display statement and write html code
directly to the web browser. Maybe you have a dozen related documents for
each invoice. You could easily provide hyperlinks to the additional
documents or run cobol programs to display query information or update
databases. You could have a web-based customer query form that displays a
customer screen with hyperlinks for every field on the screen, ie, customer
number, invoice number, a link to mapquest to show how to get there, links
to UPS to track their shipments, etc, etc.
OSU, html and web forms can be an easy and inexpensive method to upgrade
your "heritage" applications.
Plus it is fun stuff!
I've written many VMS web-based applications such as this in BASIC, COBOL,
Datatrieve and DCL. A few of my useful tools and scripts are available at:
http://www.geocities.com/vmswiz/vms.html
Hope this info helps.
Jeff
--
Jeff Morgan
OpenVMS consultant
CBL Enterprises
Hilton Head Island, SC
vms...@geoNOSPAMcities.com
remove NOSPAM to email me
"Jack Fortune" <jcfor...@fedex.com> wrote in message
news:t45ulv0p1pqgleu3c...@4ax.com...
John Travell
news:bjq5er$a7e7$1...@news3.infoave.net...
> Jack:
>
> It is very easy to set up a file share on Pathworks Advanced server
that
> can be served to the web via the OSU web server. In a theoretical customer
> service invoice retrieval application, here are the basic steps:
>
> - map a drive letter to a Pathworks file share, for example Z: could be
> mapped to a file share called "\\pwserver\documents" If possible, use an
> ODS-5 formatted disk for the share. That way your filenames can be as
large
> as necessary to hold all the retrieval data. It is a poor man's way to
> create an indexed database using the VMS file system, but it works. Users
> don't need access to this file share, only the scanning station. Users
will
> retrieve them through the web server.
>
> - scan your documents by any PC scanning method you choose
>
> - save them as jpeg files directly to the VMS file share from your
> scanning station. TIF and BMP are enormous. Be sure to use a format that
> compresses the image data and is handled directly by any web browser.
You might be better using PNG, which is supported by all current (graphical)
browsers and most older versions released in the past 5 years or so.
The problem with JPG is that it is a lossy format. PNG isn't, and it doesn't
have the copyright baggage of GIF.
--
John Travell
Independent VMS crashdump analyst.
john- at - jomatech - dot - com
+44-(0)23-92552229
http://www.jomatech.com/
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 01/09/2003
Jonathan Boswell
> Let it not be said that there are no graphics imaging tools
> for OpenVMS...
[snip]
> RSI
> http://www.rsinc.com/
This doubtlessly refers to the excellent IDL product, numerous licenses for
which I have purchased over the years starting in 1985 when it ran quite nicely
on a VAX 11/750. The only trouble is that Kodak acquired RSI and (if memory
serves) in less than a month dropped support for IDL on Alpha/VMS. Support for
IDL on VAX/VMS was dropped years before that. Support continues for "Compaq"
Tru64 to this day.
The following note was penned late last night by Jim Kelley, the RSI product
manager for IDL and OK'd by him for posting here. Please sit down before
reading.
- JB
_______________________________________
RSI dropped support for VMS several years after DEC had dropped support for
that operating system. The decision by RSI was driven primarily by a number
of various factors that essentially converged at about the same time.
First, when DEC announced they were dropping support for VMS it triggered
customers initiated their own plans to migrate to different operating
systems. Also as a result of DEC dropping VMS support, a number of third
party vendors that has libraries or code used by IDL began phasing out their
support as well. RSI realized that our ability to continue releasing IDL on
VMS would end as soon as these third party dependencies in IDL were no
longer available for VMS. We announced our intention to drop VMS about 12
months prior to the last release, in hopes of giving as much lead-time as
possible to our customers.
Having dropped the VMS platform many releases ago, it would a huge task to
try to resurrect IDL on VMS today. But, in addition to the engineering
challenge that would certainly not be cost effective, we really could not
replicate IDL 6.0 today on VMS because of the many 3rd party components and
libraries that also no longer offer support for the VMS operating system.
RSI does not drop support for hardware all that often, we typically retain
support for certain systems long past the point that it is economically
advantageous for the company. But at some point we are faced with choosing
between moving the software forward to the benefit of many users at the
expense of having to drop older systems.
The fact of the matter is that DEC built really great hardware, and while
many of their systems in the field are really old by today's standards, some
of these systems will like be running years from now.
Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr
I don't know about copyright baggage, but we no longer have to worry about the
patent baggage that spurred the development of PNG.
Jeff Morgan
haven't felt a need to upgrade these tools for years since they've been
working just fine.
I use IMAGEMAGIK to auto-create thumbnails in batch and XV to do color
editing and touchups for all my family photo albums. XV has an awesome color
editor. It will take the yellow out of scanned antique photos and can turn a
dark picture into full daylight. You can increase the saturation on faded
photos and actually bring the colors back out. You can even use it to erase
scratches but it is a crude pixel editor. Considering its age, it is an
astounding tool.
Scan and save from the pc to a pathworks file share, then index and organize
on vms. Serve them up via OSU. Every now and then I copy the whole Pathworks
file share to my PC and burn a dvd full of high resolution family pictures.
Most of my family have bought $49 Apex DVD players that play JPG files on
the TV so we share photos this way. I'm up to over 35,000 photos so far.
And then, of course I've ripped all my music CDs to MP3s (YES, legally!) and
every pc in the house can play them off a pathworks fileshare using Windows
Media Player.
I'm sure Ruth Goldberg and gang never expected VMS to do stuff like this.
: - D
Sure you can do the same thing with a P-ieceof-C-rap, but the last time I
booted the home Alphaserver it had been up since we moved into this
house...about 195 days. I only did it because I had to replace the UPS and
the 4mm tape drive.
Over the past two months, I think my Windows XP systems have had to reboot
at least once a week just to install security patches. Sheesh!
Jeff
Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40
I also use Imagemagick to create photo indexes to serve them (indexes and
photos) via OSU server on my home LAN (mosty PCs plus a few VMS boxes). Idem
with music files made from my own CDs. XV is also used for color editing, a
great tool and I rarely use the PC photo editors I have (Paint Shop Pro and
Picture Publisher).
Patrick
In article <bjrc9p$avo0$1...@news3.infoave.net>,
"Jeff Morgan" <vms...@geonospamcities.com> writes:
> Last time I looked, IMAGEMAGIK and XV didn't support PNG. Of course, I
> haven't felt a need to upgrade these tools for years since they've been
> working just fine.
>
> I use IMAGEMAGIK to auto-create thumbnails in batch and XV to do color
> editing and touchups for all my family photo albums. XV has an awesome color
> editor. It will take the yellow out of scanned antique photos and can turn a
> dark picture into full daylight. You can increase the saturation on faded
> photos and actually bring the colors back out. You can even use it to erase
> scratches but it is a crude pixel editor. Considering its age, it is an
> astounding tool.
>
--
===============================================================================
pmo...@ath.cena.fr (CENA) ______ ___ _ (Patrick MOREAU)
more...@decus.fr (DECUS) / / / / /| /|
CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE / /___/ / / | / | __ __ __ __
BP 205 / / / / |/ | | | |__| |__ |__| | |
94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX / / :: / / | |__| | \ |__ | | |__|
http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/ http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/
===============================================================================
John Smith
come home to roost.
Bob Koehler
> The impressions fostered by Palmer, Capellas, and Fiorina about VMS have
> come home to roost.
>
Despite RSI's mistatements about Digital dropping VMS, they did
react to actual business fact. They dropped IDL on VMS just after
one of thier major customers moved from VMS to Solaris. Competitive
products, such as MATLAB, made similar decisions for similar reasons.
Since these products market don't attract the same attention as the
niches DEC, Compaq, and HP have been willing to suggest VMS is good at,
those facts will likely not change.
But like old VAXen, old copies of IDL just keep running.
Marty Kuhrt
> every pc in the house can play them off a pathworks fileshare using Windows
> Media Player.
Did you rip your CD's on the VMS box? If so, how?
Does anyone know of a handy mp3 streamer for VMS web servers?
Peter Weaver
>...
> RSI
> http://www.rsinc.com/
>...
> The following note was penned late last night by Jim Kelley,
the RSI
> product manager for IDL and OK'd by him for posting here.
Please sit
> down before reading.
>
> - JB
> _______________________________________
>
> RSI dropped support for VMS several years after DEC had
dropped
> support for that operating system. The decision by RSI was
driven
Did you (or anybody else) write back to correct his
misunderstanding?
>...
> engineering challenge that would certainly not be cost
effective, we
> really could not replicate IDL 6.0 today on VMS because of
the many
> 3rd party components and libraries that also no longer offer
support
> for the VMS operating system.
>...
Which 3rd party components and libraries? Maybe he is wrong
about this also.
--
Peter Weaver
Weaver Consulting Services Inc.
Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX
www.weaverconsulting.ca
John E. Malmberg
>
> 'Tis a shame too... My HP SCSI scanner does a real nice job and quickly
> too. I've seen new USB scanners in operation and they are slow.
>
> If Jack can fine a SCSI scanner, he should contact me via a private email
> for the scanner software.
This may be of interest to those of you that want to do your own hacking
with HP all in one scanners with a JetDiret card that understands scanners.
http://www.hp.com/cposupport/networking/support_doc/bpj01014.html
Particularly ports 9280 through 9292.
I do not know how hard it would be to adapt either VAXman's or a LINUX
scanner driver to these on OpenVMS.
-John
wb8...@qsl.network
Personal Opinion Only
John Smith
> Jonathan Boswell wrote:
>> ...
>> RSI
>> http://www.rsinc.com/
>> ...
>> The following note was penned late last night by Jim Kelley, the RSI
>> product manager for IDL and OK'd by him for posting here. Please sit
>> down before reading.
>>
>> - JB
>> _______________________________________
>>
>> RSI dropped support for VMS several years after DEC had dropped
>> support for that operating system. The decision by RSI was driven
>
> Did you (or anybody else) write back to correct his
> misunderstanding?
>
>> ...
>> engineering challenge that would certainly not be cost effective, we
>> really could not replicate IDL 6.0 today on VMS because of the many
>> 3rd party components and libraries that also no longer offer support
>> for the VMS operating system.
>> ...
>
> Which 3rd party components and libraries? Maybe he is wrong
> about this also.
Peter,
He's wrong about VMS and he may be wrong about which 3rd-party components he
needs are still available for VMS, but there is one thing he's absolutely
right about - that he can't push on a rope and get customers to buy VMS just
because he has a toolset.
HP has to create the product (VMS) awareness and base level demand for VMS.
If HP did that and it was quite visible in market share once again, lots of
ISV's would get involved with VMS once again.
Say you were an ISV, but not just on VMS - in fact most of your business in
not on VMS. Your wouldn't have a lot of traction on your own marketing your
solution on VMS. You'd be looking for help from HP. But HP doesn't market
VMS to anyone except to 'large' current customers and other deals that
windup in their laps despite their best efforts to ignore them. HP doesn't
advertise VMS, period. What impression would you have about the future
prospects for your VMS application in terms of market acceptance and uptake?
Of course there are exceptions but you have a wife, mortgage, a drawn down
line of credit at the bank for your business, two kids still in braces and
summer camp, and two kids at college.What course of action would you likely
follow with respect to your VMS business - contine to invest in the VMS
version and hope that business walks in the door? - cut your losses? launch
a marketing campaign extolling the virtues of your product on VMS without
co-op advertising money from HP?
Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40
ku...@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:
[...]
I don't know if CD rippers works on VMS, but once you have WAV files, you can
compress them with lame on VMS (I'll need to post a more recent version than
the one on the DECW archive, the 3.93 works well on VMS ...).
Patrick
Jeff Morgan
I used dbPowerAmp music converter on a pc. Does a great job of ripping the
mp3s, grabs the song names from the internet databases, and constructs the
file name based on artist and song. Makes it easy to organize mp3s by artist
on the Pathworks share.
Use an ODS-5 disk for the share. Huge file names with lots of spaces and
special characters. Have to truncate some of the file names when I re-burn
them to DVD-R (on the pc). I shrunk my music CD collection from 450+ disks
down to 8 DVDs for backup. The $49 APEX dvd player also works great with DVD
MP3 disks on my stereo.
Do you really need streaming? If the network is fast enough, why not just
download the whole mp3 and then play it.
I just use the Pathworks share and map a network drive for Media Player.
This really works out to be the same as streaming... reading across the
network as it plays. I've never noticed any gaps or stutters on a 10 mbit
connection.
Now, if your intention is to listen to your home music collection from the
office, then streaming might be useful. OSU serves mp3s just fine, just not
in a streaming mode. Another possibility is in windows XP you could define a
"favorite network places" as an ftp site pointing to your VMS server.
(IT old-timers know how to problem solve even when we don't know what the
problem is... ; - )
Jeff
"Marty Kuhrt" <ku...@nospammy.encompasserve.org> wrote in message
news:wf5yHb...@eisner.encompasserve.org...
Marty Kuhrt
>
> I used dbPowerAmp music converter on a pc. Does a great job of ripping the
> mp3s, grabs the song names from the internet databases, and constructs the
> file name based on artist and song. Makes it easy to organize mp3s by artist
> on the Pathworks share.
I use some sort of Creative Play Center thingy to rip on my PC now.
I was wondering if there was a VMS based ripper.
> Now, if your intention is to listen to your home music collection from the
> office, then streaming might be useful. OSU serves mp3s just fine, just not
> in a streaming mode. Another possibility is in windows XP you could define a
> "favorite network places" as an ftp site pointing to your VMS server.
Yep, my intention is to listen to my home music collection via
a browser at work.
David J Dachtera
> In article <wf5yHb...@eisner.encompasserve.org>,
> ku...@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:
> [...]
> > Did you rip your CD's on the VMS box? If so, how?
>
> I don't know if CD rippers works on VMS, but once you have WAV files, you can
> compress them with lame on VMS (I'll need to post a more recent version than
> the one on the DECW archive, the 3.93 works well on VMS ...).
Has anyone posted a "How-To" page for lame on VMS?
D.J.D.
VAXman-
This software encodes the .WAV into .MP3. I'd like something to get the
.WAV from a music CD. Is there any open source to do this?
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"
Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann
CD rippers for VMS?
Here's the first try (CDDA2WAV for CDRTOOLS):
mc []CDDA2WAV.EXE -alltracks dev=8,0,0
There is no sound support configured!
Type: ROM, Vendor 'SONY ' Model 'DVD RW DRU-500A
' Revision '2.0f' MMC+CDDA
270336 bytes buffer memory requested, 4 buffers, 27 sectors
Read TOC CD Text failed (probably not supported).
#Cdda2wav version VMS support
AUDIOtrack pre-emphasis copy-permitted tracktype channels
1- 4 no no audio 2
Table of Contents: total tracks:4, (total time 0:54.08)
1.( 0:14.02), 2.( 0:14.02), 3.( 0:14.02), 4.( 0:12.02)
Table of Contents: starting sectors
1.( 0), 2.( 1052), 3.( 2104), 4.( 3156), lead-out(
4058)
CDINDEX discid: EJtTPVcJrZpllu21b_WhOj3qJ0U-
CDDB discid: 0x14003604
CD-Text: not detected
CD-Extra: not detected
samplefile size will be 9544460 bytes.
recording 54.1066 seconds stereo with 16 bits @ 44100.0 Hz ->'AUDIO'...
a nonforking version is running...
percent_done:
100% track 1 successfully recorded
100% track 2 successfully recorded
100% track 3 successfully recorded
100% track 4 successfully recorded
$ dir *.wav
Directory DSA2:[CDRECORD_ARCHIV.CDRTOOLS_2_01A18.CDRTOOLS-2_01.CDDA2WAV]
AUDIO_01.WAV;1 AUDIO_02.WAV;1 AUDIO_03.WAV;1
AUDIO_04.WAV;1
Send a message if you're interested.
eberhard
David Froble
Has anyone posted a set of function definitions for these (I'm guessing) Unix
functions with the o-so-descriptive names?
--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. Fax: 724-529-0596
DFE Ultralights, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486