Green Lantern & Doc Smith's "Lensmen"
William Heaning
times, and I love it more and more each time. Indeed, the greatest
space opera ever written.
But I've never, ever bought a Green Lantern book. My comic diet
usually consists of Batman, Detective Comics, and Black Panther.
Now, I vaguely know about the story behind the Green Lantern (power
ring, the color yellow, the Corps, etc.) But I don't know enough about
it to see where, besides the idea for the ring and a corps of
"ring-men", the creators lifted huge plot elements from the Lensmen
series.
Anyone read both on a consistent basis? Let's compare and contrast,
here, eh? Thanks.
Moksha
Lilith
wrote:
I love the Lensman series and don't like the Japanese version of it.
I've also read a lot more by Doc Smith. IMO, there are similarities,
but the question is, are they coincidental?
The concept of the power ring had been around since the days of Alan
Scott. Since the Lensman series is easily as old, there may have been
some borrowing of the concept of a weapon worn as an accessory. The
nature of the power, however, is vastly different. The ring is more
of a physical weapon, powered by will power, whereas the lens only
imbues it's owner with telepathic abilities. This helped the Patrol
officers to communicate faster and co-ordinate.
As for the concept of the GL Corp, there's also a difference there.
In the Corp, all the members are roughly equivalent in power. Kimball
Kinnison, in the main story, along with his three counterparts, whose
names I forget at the moment, excepting Worsel, were the only ones
able to use the lens for more than telepathy.
>Moksha
Lil
Terence Chua
lilithp@_remove_me_pobox.com (Lilith) wrote:
>I love the Lensman series and don't like the Japanese version of it.
>I've also read a lot more by Doc Smith. IMO, there are similarities,
>but the question is, are they coincidental?
Roy Thomas did a brief article on it in one of the recent issues of
Alter Ego. The upshot of his research is that, yes, it was coincidental.
--
Terence Chua kh...@tim.org
WWW: http://www.khaosworks.org
KhaOS@TinyTIM: telnet://yay.tim.org:5440
"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us will go to the stars."
Brian Doyle
"Terence Chua" <kh...@tim.org> wrote in message
news:khaos-21182F....@news.newsguy.com...
> In article <3d019615....@dscnews.dcccd.edu>,
> lilithp@_remove_me_pobox.com (Lilith) wrote:
>
> >I love the Lensman series and don't like the Japanese version of it.
> >I've also read a lot more by Doc Smith. IMO, there are similarities,
> >but the question is, are they coincidental?
>
> Roy Thomas did a brief article on it in one of the recent issues of
> Alter Ego. The upshot of his research is that, yes, it was coincidental.
To begin with perhaps, but the names that many GL's have in later issues are taken
from the Lensman books so the similarity was not only noted, but used as a recurring
homage; Arisia being the first one that springs to mind.
Kevin Robinson
See: http://members.aol.com/MG4273/legion.htm
"Binder* had previously written one shot, non-series stories about
hero organizations for the sf comic book Strange Adventures. His "The
Watchdogs of the Universe" (Strange Adventures #62, November 1955)
describes an Earthman who joins a galaxy wide group responsible for
protecting people during emergencies. And "World at the Edge of the
Universe" (Strange Adventures #60, September 1955) is about a young
Earthman trying to join an elite inter-planetary organization, one in
which he feels as inadequate as Superboy does here.
Before Binder, John Broome had created "The Guardians of the Clockwork
Universe" (Strange Adventures #22, July 1952). These were wise, remote
aliens who watched over the universe. Unlike the Legion, and other
Binder groups, one could not join Broome's organization. Instead, the
Guardians would select champions to carry out their missions on
various planets. In Broome's original story, his hero Captain Comet
was such a champion. Later, Broome would revive the concept, making
Green Lantern a similar champion of theirs."
*That's Otto Binder, of Adam Link fame.
The "Silver Age" GL wedded the wish-fulfilment super-weapon of the
magical, "Golden Age" GL, to a galaxy-wide police force, overseen by
a wise+, ancient, all but all-powerful benevolent race, too advanced
to wield their great weapons themselves.
Late in the series, an "honor guard" of three senior GL's are shown to
live on OA with the Guardians. Hal Jordan's "next-door" neighbor,
Tomar-Re, the "bird-headed" GL of sector 2813, is one of them.
I guess they could be considered L2 or L3. Oa is a stand-in for
Arisia.
The anti-matter universe of Qward can double for Eddore, with
Sinestro, the renegade GL, and the Weaponers as its champions.
Kevin
+later stories show the little blue busybodies were not always so
wise.
quimico
There is also Eddore...
WRH Bill
>Roy Thomas did a brief article on it in one of the recent issues of
>Alter Ego. The upshot of his research is that, yes, it was coincidental.
>
>--
>Terence Chua kh...@tim.org
I haven't seen that article, though I thought I had most of the issues of the
new ALTER EGO-- which issue was it? Anyway, I find it *very* hard to believe
that the resemblance between the Lensmen and the Silver Age Green Lantern Corps
was purely coincidental. Both organizations were vast galaxy-spanning "police
forces," organized and led by benevolent ultra-powerful aliens, with members of
many species and various bizarre alien forms, each possessing a special
talisman (Lens, Power Ring) which served as both weapon and symbol of
membership.
Granted, there were differences.... the Lensmen/Galactic Patrol was more of a
paramilitary organization, dedicated to the fight against a rival organization
dedicated to Ultimate Evil (the Boskonians, led by the evil ultra-alien
Eddorians). The GL Corps was more a loose association of lone agents who
usually acted as individuals, and they didn't have a single archfoe/counterpart
organization. But still the resemblance between the Lensmen and the GL Corps
is strong. And considering the great influence that E.E. "Doc" Smith and his
Lensmen series had in 1930's/40's science fiction, I can't believe that
one-time sci-fi literary agent Julius Schwartz-- and John Broome, who I think
wrote some pulp SF before getting into comics-- weren't well aware of the
series.
"You can't kill the truth. Well, actually, you CAN kill it...but it'll come
back to haunt you later." (Capt. John Sheridan)
Kenmlin
Ken
Terence Chua
wrh...@aol.com (WRH Bill) wrote:
>I haven't seen that article, though I thought I had most of the issues of the
>new ALTER EGO-- which issue was it? Anyway, I find it *very* hard to believe
>that the resemblance between the Lensmen and the Silver Age Green Lantern Corps
>was purely coincidental. Both organizations were vast galaxy-spanning "police
>forces," organized and led by benevolent ultra-powerful aliens, with members of
>many species and various bizarre alien forms, each possessing a special
>talisman (Lens, Power Ring) which served as both weapon and symbol of
>membership.
Vol 3, No. 10, September 2001 - page 24, a postscript to the John Broome
article by Rich Morrisey. In "The Lensmen Connection", Thomas goes into
a comparison of the similarities between the Lensman books and the GL
Corps. He writes, quoting Shel Kagan from a similar article from the
1965 Alter Ego #9 ("Great Guardians"):
"The many similarities of the Lensmen concept to that of the Green
Lanterns [and those earlier in "Captain Comet"] might naturally lead one
to surmise unequivocally that the older concetp directly inspired the
younger. Investigation in this direction, however, points up the dangers
inherent in such 'educated guesses', for editor Julius Schwartz says he
has never read the series (though, as a longtime sf fan, he has of
course _heard_ of it). And DC writer John Broome, author of both the
'Captain Comet' and _Green Lantern_ series, disclaims all knowledge of
the Smith books.
"In Schwartz' words, the Guardians were and simply are a 'pet idea' of
Broome's. As if to establish beyond dispute the extent to which... the
comics and science-fiction share a fund of common ideas, Broome has this
to say about the concept:
"'The Guardians is just another name for God - who has appeared under
numerous guises in forms of fiction down through the ages. Some day when
man matures a bit, the question of how a science proves religion will be
a widespread one (I hope). When that time arrives it will no longer be
necessary to introduce the idea of a Supreme Intelligence in dramatic
metaphors - probably it will no longer be _possible_.'"
So, they *were* aware of the existence of the series, but both Schwartz
and Broome claim that they have never read it. Unless, of course, one
says they were lying, that's their story and they seem to be sticking to
it. With Broome sadly deceased, that may be the end of the matter and
the rest up to speculation.
That being said, the idea of an ordinary man bestowed with an
extraordinary weapon by the gods is an old, old one, and part of
Campbell's hero's journey. So conceptually, if not directly inspiring,
the Lensmen can be said to be the predecessors of the Green Lantern
Corps.
Michael S. Schiffer
>...
> So, they *were* aware of the existence of the series, but both
> Schwartz and Broome claim that they have never read it. Unless,
> of course, one says they were lying, that's their story and they
> seem to be sticking to it. With Broome sadly deceased, that may
> be the end of the matter and the rest up to speculation.
If Schwartz says he never read the Lensman books, I'll take him at
his word. But I'm shocked. Julie Schwartz became an SF fan and an
SF literary agent when those concepts were being invented. Given his
personal investment in the field and his business relations with
magazines like _Astounding_, it floors me that he managed to miss one
of the most influential and popular serials of Golden Age science
fiction, and never went back to look at it (at least as of the time
the GL mythos was being developed). I wonder why.
Mike
--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS
msch...@condor.depaul.edu
Michael S. Schiffer
news:20020608181201...@mb-cj.aol.com:
>...
> Granted, there were differences.... the Lensmen/Galactic Patrol
> was more of a paramilitary organization,
No "para" about it-- they were military, backed by starships and
non-Lensed Patrol agents. A small fraction were promoted to
Unattached status, and were effectively free agents who couldn't be
placed under orders. (But they themselves could command any amount
of Patrol military power that they deemed necessary.)
dedicated to the fight
> against a rival organization dedicated to Ultimate Evil (the
> Boskonians, led by the evil ultra-alien Eddorians). The GL
> Corps was more a loose association of lone agents who usually
> acted as individuals,
In a sense, every Green Lantern was the equivalent to a Gray
Lensman (albeit without the support structure that backed the
Lensmen. The power ring's a pretty fair substitute for that,
though. :-) )
and they didn't have a single
> archfoe/counterpart organization.
>...
Though the Patrol didn't *know* they had a single archfoe group for
most of its history. (And none of them, including Kim Kinnison,
ever quite figured out who the enemy really was.)
Tom Galloway
Michael S. Schiffer <msch...@condor.depaul.edu> wrote:
>non-Lensed Patrol agents. A small fraction were promoted to
>Unattached status, and were effectively free agents who couldn't be
>placed under orders. (But they themselves could command any amount
>of Patrol military power that they deemed necessary.)
And those Grey, or Unattached, Lensmen were the only ones who could make
the Lensmen's Seal...which was needed to fasten the zipper on the outfit. :-)
(OK, so that last was from Randall Garrett's Backstage Lensmen parody).
>Though the Patrol didn't *know* they had a single archfoe group for
>most of its history. (And none of them, including Kim Kinnison,
>ever quite figured out who the enemy really was.)
Although his kids did, or were told by the Arisians.
tyg t...@Panix.com