different country <-> other country ?
Renou Korff
The phrases 'a whole other country' and 'a whole different
country' are both grammatically correct, however, neither would
normally be used by an average american. An american would use
'a completely different country' - this translates 'ein ganz
anderes Land' the best.
Tschöööö,
aus Kölle,
Renou
--
Sky-diving, Windsurfing, Wild man, World traveller
ESLTEACHER
: The phrases 'a whole other country' and 'a whole different
: country' are both grammatically correct, however, neither would
: normally be used by an average american. An american would use
: 'a completely different country' - this translates 'ein ganz
: anderes Land' the best.
Whoops! I'm an average American (and that's with a capital "A",
according to standard rules of usage - this *is* a teachers' newsgroup.)
I use "whole other" all the time ("That's a whole other ball of wax" is a
standard idiom with which I grew up; "He has a whole other idea of how we
should do this"; "He seems to be from a whole other planet" is a
non-complimentary comment which I've heard fairly often.)
"A completely different country" would be a "completely different
country". As far as many Texans are concerned, at least facetiously,
Texas mayb be a "whole different country" however the standard phrase, "a
whole other country" tends to mean, "well, it's really different here"
but does not necessarily mean, "We're not with the rest of the country"
which is what your translation would mean. Mexico is a "whole different
country".
Are you a native speaker of American English? If so, where in the U.S.
do they define this phrase as you do?
Meg Gam
ESL Teacher
NYC
Alice M. Whitfield
>Renou Korff (7453...@CompuServe.COM) wrote:
>: The phrases 'a whole other country' and 'a whole different
>: country' are both grammatically correct, however, neither would
>: normally be used by an average american. An american would use
>: 'a completely different country' - this translates 'ein ganz
>: anderes Land' the best.
>Whoops! I'm an average American (and that's with a capital "A",
>according to standard rules of usage - this *is* a teachers' newsgroup.)
Whoops! Meg, you are too quick to judge others. Calm down, dear...take
a pill...:)
>I use "whole other" all the time ("That's a whole other ball of wax" is a
>standard idiom with which I grew up; "He has a whole other idea of how we
>should do this"; "He seems to be from a whole other planet" is a
>non-complimentary comment which I've heard fairly often.)
I have lived in eight states spread out across the US and have never heard
the usages you're describing above. I have heard people -- in a discussion
where they assumed something, jumped to a wrong conclusion based on that
assumption, and then were given more complete information -- I've heard them
say, 'Well, that's a horse of a different color!' or 'Well, that's a
different ball o' wax, then...' Never 'whole other'...
>"A completely different country" would be a "completely different
>country"...
Now, this is a classic, Meg. How clever of you! Are you trying to
trap us other lesser creatures (esl teachers as opposed to ESL TEACHER)
into some trap you've cunningly contrived???
...As far as many Texans are concerned, at least facetiously,
>Texas mayb be a "whole different country" however the standard phrase, "a
>whole other country" tends to mean, "well, it's really different here"
>but does not necessarily mean, "We're not with the rest of the country"
>which is what your translation would mean. Mexico is a "whole different
>country".
>Are you a native speaker of American English? If so, where in the U.S.
>do they define this phrase as you do?
>Meg Gam
>ESL Teacher
>NYC
Most advertizers, including the Lone Star State, run regional ad campaigns.
That means that something that plays well in DesMoines never gets aired in
New York or vice versa. Perhaps the ad under discussion was geared to a
specific audience where the 'whole other' ploy would be well received???
Meg, sorry to take you so to task, but you've assumed the airs of a demi-
goddess lately. Shall we deify you??? What would be your godname? Would
you remain human??? What language would you speak? Think of the dictates
and edicts and rules and caveats ... Perhaps -- someday -- queen of the gods!
By decree, of course...
In good fun,
Alice Whitfield
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
o Fishing is a delusion entirely surrounded by liars in old clothes. o
o -- Don Marquis o
o o
o awhi...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Alice Whitfield) o
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
K A Stead
> In article <DD28n...@dorsai.org> tea...@news.dorsai.org (ESLTEACHER )
spake:
>
> >Renou Korff (7453...@CompuServe.COM) wrote:
>
> >: The phrases 'a whole other country' and 'a whole different
> >: country' are both grammatically correct, however, neither would
> >: normally be used by an average american. An american would use
> >: 'a completely different country' - this translates 'ein ganz
> >: anderes Land' the best.
>
> >Whoops! I'm an average American (and that's with a capital "A",
> >according to standard rules of usage - this *is* a teachers' newsgroup.)
>
> Whoops! Meg, you are too quick to judge others. Calm down, dear...take
> a pill...:)
>
> >I use "whole other" all the time []
>
> I have lived in eight states spread out across the US and have never heard
> the usages you're describing above.
I must have lived in a whole other set of states, I've heard 'em all!
;-)
>[]
> >"A completely different country" would be a "completely different
> >country"...
Imagine the embarrassment of a country which billed itself as completely
different upon discovering that it wasn't.
[]
> That means that something that plays well in DesMoines never gets aired in
> New York or vice versa.
I used to think that Indiana was one giant county (parish?) called 'Wander'.
Regards,
K.
[]
>[mild reproof]
ESLTEACHER
: On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Alice M. Whitfield wrote:
: > Whoops! Meg, you are too quick to judge others. Calm down, dear...take
: > a pill...:)
Oh, Alice, let's be grown up, shall we? I am not a pill-popper, by the
way. It's not a genteel thing to be, I don't believe. There are more
graceful ways to deal with adversity.
: > >I use "whole other" all the time []
: >
: > I have lived in eight states spread out across the US and have never heard
: > the usages you're describing above.
: I must have lived in a whole other set of states, I've heard 'em all!
(^0^)
Alice must be one of those Northerners who have never been in the South,
yet are experts on the ways we do things in the South.
Meg Gam
ESL Teacher and Southerner
NYC
K A Stead
> In article <DD66r...@dorsai.org> tea...@news.dorsai.org (ESLTEACHER )
> saith:
> >: On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Alice M. Whitfield spake:
> >:[war,strife]
> >[rebuttal]
>[Infighting]
> >: > >[bloodshed] []
> >: > >[8 states invective] > > >[my 8 states polemic]
>[hoarse bellowing]
> [acrimony]
>[air strike] [offshore shelling (16-inch guns)]
>[SAMs, patriots]
> Now,that would be germane to mele.
Apparently so.
Good God, yawl, Why don't we change this group to Success Through
Invective-Speechwriters For The New Breed Of Politician Reveal Their
Identities
the Limbaugh Award to ye both.
K. :-(
> Alice Whitfield
> esl teacher and (hopefully) human being...
>
>
>
>
Alice M. Whitfield
>: On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Alice M. Whitfield wrote:
>: > Whoops! Meg, you are too quick to judge others. Calm down, dear...take
>: > a pill...:)
>Oh, Alice, let's be grown up, shall we? I am not a pill-popper, by the
>way. It's not a genteel thing to be, I don't believe. There are more
>graceful ways to deal with adversity.
Meg, I daresay we're nearly the same age, or perhaps I'm even older than you...
>: > >I use "whole other" all the time []
>: >
>: > I have lived in eight states spread out across the US and have never heard
>: > the usages you're describing above.
>Alice must be one of those Northerners who have never been in the South,
>yet are experts on the ways we do things in the South.
Well, Meg, sorry to burst your bubble of ebullience, but I'm neither a
northerner nor a southerner. I'm from the wonderful -- the magical -- the
marvelous -- Midwest! The land of the perfect American newsroom accent!
(she said jestfully...) My comments said nothing about being an expert on the
South. Why did you bring that up??? Are you lacking in defense for your
indefensible, rigid and exclusionary position? Do you now have to make things
up about your opposition?
I've read many articles you've posted -- Lord knows you've posted a few!
Many of them are sensible and sound. But many of them are elitist,
Ameri-centrist (my own term...) and lacking in any awareness of the foreign
students having a brain and a whole adult personality outside your classroom.
You seem to suffer from a common ESL delusion of 'bringing America to the
unwashed,' and I, for one, resent this attitude. Too often you degrade your
students and demean their efforts. You seem to have the thought patterns
of a missionary bringing a 'message' to the heathen. I have a different
view of my students. To me, they are adults who have had and wish to continue
responsible careers, who have their own unique life histories, resumes,
educations, tragedies and comedies that cannot be overlooked in the
relocation process. I see nothing of these individuals in your writing. I
see only MEG GAM, ESL TEACHER, in all caps and with attention drawn only to
herself. I see nothing of ideas, but much of games. I see nothing of
achievements, but much of mistakes and bad accents. Where are the PEOPLE,
besides Meg Gam? Who are they and why do you bother with them??? Now,
that would be germane to mele.
Alice Whitfield
ESLTEACHER
: In article <DD66r...@dorsai.org> tea...@news.dorsai.org (ESLTEACHER ) writes:
<snip snip>
: >Oh, Alice, let's be grown up, shall we? I am not a pill-popper, by the
: >graceful ways to deal with adversity.
: Meg, I daresay we're nearly the same age, or perhaps I'm even older than
: you...
Alice let's remember how English works. Age has nothing to do with being
grown up or not.
: My comments said nothing about being an expert on the
: South. Why did you bring that up???
Why? Oh, because you indicated that your vast experience (having lived
in 8 of 50 states set you as an expert on the particular usage being
discussed. Since, as far as I know, the usage is quite prevalent in the
South, I had to question your claim to expertise in this area.
BTW, Midwestern attitudes often mirror Northern ones. Midwesterners who
come to the South often encounter the same difficulties as Northerners,
when they try to demonstrate their superiority.
: Are you lacking in defense for your
: indefensible, rigid and exclusionary position? Do you now have to make things
: up about your opposition?
Nope. I've just read what you've said, found problems with it and
commented. Nothing made up at all.
: I've read many articles you've posted -- Lord knows you've posted a few!
ATTENTION ONE AND ALL: If anyone wants to post on this group, s/he is
perfectly welcome do so. If you have a problem with the fact that I post a
lot, if my postings have not been helpful to you, then please, please,
please, by all means, post some of your own, in the interest of sharing with
other ESL teachers.
: Many of them are sensible and sound. But many of them are elitist,
: Ameri-centrist (my own term...) <snip snip> I see nothing of these
: individuals in your writing.
I never set out to post "interesting things which happened in my
classroom today. Any ESL teacher who is reading here has more than
enough of those, and heaven knows, the TESL-L list is full of that.
Here I post things which might help other teachers. (have you really ever
read anything that I've posted? )
I see only MEG GAM, ESL TEACHER, in all caps and with attention drawn only to
: herself. I see nothing of ideas, but much of games.
Oh, you do have a clever way with words. Yes, I do post games. You are
correct there. Are you envious because you have nothing to contribute
towards helping other teachers to do their jobs?
: Who are they and why do you bother with them??? Now,
: that would be germane to mele.
I wholly disagree. The purpose of m.e.l.e. is Teaching English to
Speakers of Other Languages. No one ever claimed that it was a group
to discuss immigrant experiences in ESL
: I see nothing of achievements <snip snip> Where are the PEOPLE,
<snip snip>
As noted above, this is not a group to discuss the students and their
activities, but to discuss what works in *teaching* them. Don't folks
worry about this where you are? I know there are a lot of teachers out
there who care more for learning new ways to teach English than for
standing around talking about their students lives. (that's called
gossip, in case you didn't know)
Anyway, I've never noticed that you've posted so many terribly poignant
stories about your own students achievements. Actually, I haven't
noticed you posting much except bitter criticism of others. Is that all
you are good at?
Perhaps you should start up your own group to talk about your students'
stories.
I'd rather talk and learn about effective methods of teaching the
students I have and will have.
I guess we just have different priorities.
Oh, and by the way, as long as we are at it, English *is* spelled with a
capital letter. For that reason, and for the simple reason that the
convention is to write ESL all in caps, I sign
Meg Gam
ESL Teacher