Open positions in Long Island, NY
Bill - Netcom
I don't think salaries will rise above $100 - $110 k. After 2001, you've only got
to sack everyone as those salaries will be unmaintainable. Some companies (so I'm
told <g>) still considering hiring an employee as a long term commitment. Also
many companies have already 'locked' in their employees by giving them 50% 'stay
pay' bonuses, repayable if they leave before 2001. The idea being, that the
employees will spend the money now, and wont be able to repay it if they decide
to leave.
As for consulting rates, most people I know are receiving around $70 an hour
(professional day). This is in NYC and is the figure the consultant receives, it
doesn't include the agency cut. Most of the people I know at $70 an hour are
'shopping' round for $100 an hour. I think your projected consultant rates are a
little high, though I'll be more than happy to be proved wrong <g>.
It's a lot different from a few years ago, when $450 a day in NYC was
considered a reasonable rate.
Bill
Francis A. Ney, Jr. wrote:
> In article <01bcb323$99ab5120$4f68edcf@default> dee...@interport.net writes:
>
> > A major service company located in Long Island, NY is seeking several
> > COBOL, CICS, VSAM Programmers for year 2000 work. Positions are perm paying
> > around 60-70K. All interested candidates should contact DeeAnn Leman at
> > (212)476-9313 or email at dee...@interport.net
>
> ROTFLMAO!
>
> You expect to get good people at *those* rates?
>
> This is what you *should* be paying:
>
> ------------- Projected Salaries and Rates -------------
>
> The basis for this are the published cost estimates. This is your
> target for negotiation at each point in the future.
>
> The salary number is the annual salary with benefits for a competent
> journeyman programmer with 5 years of applicable experience.
>
> The consulting number is the hourly rate for a technical specialist
> with 10 years of experience and a technical or industry specialty.
> For example, someone who understands Insurance Underwriting would have
> an industry specialty. A technical specialty would be IMS DB/DC.
>
> If you have more experience or expertise, your numbers should be
> higher.
>
> Salary Consulting
> June 1996 45K 55/hour
>
> Jan 1997 60K 70/hour
> June 1997 80K 90/hour *
>
> Jan 1998 100K 120/hour
> June 1998 125K 150/hour
>
> Jan 1999 150K 180/hour
> June 1999 180K 210/hour
>
> Jan 2000 200K 230/hour
>
> * Several specialists are already earning these numbers and more!
>
> These are guesses from estimates. Other guesses place the numbers
> higher. I used the estimates for fixing a line of code.
>
> For salaried employees, beware of employers who only adjust salaries
> once a year. Be very wary of employers with bonuses in escrow. This
> is a sucker play to cheap you out by waving a 10 or 20K bonus.
>
> If the fair market salary for you in 1999 is 180K, that 20K bonus in
> escrow on top of a 66K salary will look pretty cheap.
>
> All projects will be death march projects next year. Make sure that
> you are paid for every hour you work. You will still suffer but at
> least they will pay you.
>
> ---
> Frank Ney WV/EMT-B VA/EMT-A N4ZHG LPWV NRA(L) GOA CCRKBA JPFO
> Sponsor, BATF Abuse page http://www.access.digex.net/~croaker/batfabus.html
> West Virginia Coordinator, Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus
> NOTICE: Flaming email received will be posted to the appropriate newsgroups
> - --
> "Whether the authorities be invaders or merely local tyrants, the
> effect of such [gun] laws is to place the individual at the mercy of
> the state, unable to resist."
> - Robert Heinlein, in a 1949 letter concerning _Red Planet_
cory hamasaki
In <3406A989...@ix.netcom.com>, Bill - Netcom <bill...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
...
> As for consulting rates, most people I know are receiving around $70 an hour
>(professional day). This is in NYC and is the figure the consultant receives, it
>doesn't include the agency cut. Most of the people I know at $70 an hour are
>'shopping' round for $100 an hour. I think your projected consultant rates are a
>little high, though I'll be more than happy to be proved wrong <g>.
Hi Bill, you are saying the same thing that Frank and I are. The
$70/hour is current, because those rates were negotiated earlier this
year or late last year. It's going to 90 or a hundred as the
contracts, 6 months, 9 months, 1 year, are being renegotiated.
We think the right number starting in June is 90/hour; your guys are
looking for 100, this is August. I sure hope no one is signing at
$65 or $70 at this date.
>
> It's a lot different from a few years ago, when $450 a day in NYC was
>considered a reasonable rate.
>
>Bill
450 / 8 = $56/hour. Looks a lot like our $55/hour for the old days.
Your numbers look good to me.
Yep, it's a new day. Check out my new posting about Maryland. The
state government is dumping a nice big fat pile of money on the
problem. Maybe you'd like to live on a sailboat in a marina in
Annapolis for a couple years?
>> Salary Consulting
>> June 1996 45K 55/hour
>>
>> Jan 1997 60K 70/hour
>> June 1997 80K 90/hour *
>> Frank Ney
What does the term "professional day" mean?
Lets all go get our fair share.
Cory Hamasaki
Bill - Netcom
Hi Cory
It depends which side of the fence you're on. To several of my old employers a
'professional day' was however long it took you to finish all the work they allocated,
usually 9+ hours a day.
Most rates in NY are still daily rates. My current assignment states a 7 hour
'professional day', and so far it's been a straight 7 hours a day. I hope that lasts.
Bill
The Programmer
In article <3406c...@news3.ibm.net>, kiy...@ibm.XOUT.net
(cory hamasaki) wrote:
> What does the term "professional day" mean?
"Professional day" means that you are unprofessional if you
expect to be paid more than $0.00/hr. for overtime hours
(that is, hours in excess of the first 7 or 8 hours in the
day.)
The Programmer
Dave Eastabrook
In article <1997083019...@basement.replay.com>, The Programmer
<Em...@addr.to.spam.bucket.net> writes
later; he was considered slow and stupid by his "peers" who figured he
had to stay late just to do his normal day's work. I looked at what he
was doing, and this guy was carrying more than half the group's work on
his shoulders because of *their* lack of experience.
It taught me a lesson. If I work the hours, I get paid the hours. And/or
vice versa. No or very few exceptions - and that's got to be mutually
beneficial (maybe I want to get in late or have a long lunch break, or
maybe there's something I want to learn). Otherwise you're being a fool
to yourself.
:D
--
Dave Eastabrook
http://www.elmbronze.demon.co.uk/ /IBM/ or /year2000/ or /telework/
TDickinger
>Subject: Re: Open positions in Long Island, NY
>From: Dave Eastabrook
>It taught me a lesson. If I work the hours, I get paid the hours. And/or
>vice versa.
>. Otherwise you're being a fool
>to yourself.
I'm with Dave. Maybe I'm not considered a Professional, but I would
rather get paid for the time I put in or no work no pay.
Tempi
rgea...@ntplx.net
The Programmer wrote:
>
> In article <3406c...@news3.ibm.net>, kiy...@ibm.XOUT.net
> (cory hamasaki) wrote:
>
> > What does the term "professional day" mean?
>
> "Professional day" means that you are unprofessional if you
> expect to be paid more than $0.00/hr. for overtime hours
> (that is, hours in excess of the first 7 or 8 hours in the
> day.)
>
It basically means that the client feels free to gouge you for as many
hours over and above 8 a day as he likes without it costing him a
cent...It's kind of like you hiring a carpenter to build you a new
bathroom at a fixed price and when he is done you saying "hey wait a
minute, I also expect you to redo my kitchen and add a deck on the house
and since you were here anyway for the bathroom there is no reason for
you to charge me anything extra for THAT...."
Richard Anderson
On 31 Aug 1997 13:17:35 GMT, tdick...@aol.com (TDickinger)
wrote:
The paragon of the professional is the Attorney at Law. He will
write you a bill for the time that he thought about what he would
say in the off chance that you might call him.
I recommend billing in one minute increments. There is all sorts
of PCWN software out there to accomplish this.
--
Rick Anderson
Seattle
anderson »at« pobox »fullstop« com
The Programmer
rgea...@ntplx.net wrote in article <34098B...@ntplx.net>...
Well-ll-l... it's a give-n-take thing, really.
Depending on the situation, a 'professional day' can indeed mean working 10 or
11 or 12 hours in order to make a client's dead-line. At other times, again,
depending on the situation, a 'professional day' can mean putting in one hour
and getting paid for 15!
Once, when I was doing a job for a mortgage company in Miami, the client
actually took my time sheet away from me, upped the hours reported from 40 to
90, signed it, and had me FAX it to the agency. Of course, the week before I'd
stayed until after 10 PM for four days in a row, working with a sub-contractor
company trying to get the client's AS/400 communicating with the
sub-contractor's UNIX, and never bothered reporting any of the extra time, even
though the communications link was not my responsibility (I was writing the
application program that made the data to be transmitted available). Because of
all the effort that was put in, the client's project was completed on time and
well within budget, and the project manager ended up shining in the eyes of
upper level management. My reward? Besides the extra $$$s, the project manager
insisted that I be chosen for the subsequent two projects, at a higher hourly
rate! The agency I worked for remarked that it was very seldom that a client
would initiate a raise in hourly rates, in order to keep an individual on the
project.
So, as far as being a contractor, the term 'professional day' is extremely
flexible.
Of course, I've heard horror stories too, where a client would expect
contractors (and permanent people!), to put in enormous hours with no
recognition or compensation of any sort. These are known as sweat shops and,
usually, the word gets around fast.
So far, I've been lucky. In all the years that I've worked as a developer, I've
always managed to side-step sweat shops.
Rick Cowles
Richard Anderson wrote:
> The paragon of the professional is the Attorney at Law. He will
> write you a bill for the time that he thought about what he would
> say in the off chance that you might call him.
Totally off topic, but when I was closing on my current home and the
title agent was writing out the checks, she looked at my attorney and
asked him how much his fee was. He thought for a moment, and told her
"Two hundred dollars." The agent then looked at the sellers attorney
(who had done much less work than mine for the deal to close) and asked
the same question. The seller's attorney looked my attorney straight in
the eye, paused for a moment, and said "Four hundred". I nearly wet my
shorts trying to suppress my laughter, since the seller had to pay his
own attorney's fees out of his own proceeds.
Here's the moral to the story, and I learned a very valuable lesson that
day:
When I walked outside of the office after settlement was completed, I
saw my attorney get into a 5 or 6 year old Chrysler LeBaron, and my
seller's attorney drove off in a new Mercedes convertible. I haven't
sold my own services short since.
--
Rick Cowles
"Utilitites and Year 2000"
http://www.accsyst.com/writers/ele2000a.htm
cory hamasaki
In <5ucm1c$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "The Programmer" <TheV...@msn.com> writes:
>rgea...@ntplx.net wrote in article <34098B...@ntplx.net>...
>> The Programmer wrote:
>> >
>> > In article <3406c...@news3.ibm.net>, kiy...@ibm.XOUT.net
>> > (cory hamasaki) wrote:
>> >
>> > > What does the term "professional day" mean?
>> >
>> > "Professional day" means that you are unprofessional if you
>> > expect to be paid more than $0.00/hr. for overtime hours
>> > (that is, hours in excess of the first 7 or 8 hours in the
>> > day.)
>> >
>> > The Programmer
>>
>> It basically means that the client feels free to gouge you for as many
>> hours over and above 8 a day as he likes without it costing him a
>> cent...It's kind of like you hiring a carpenter to build you a new
>> bathroom at a fixed price and when he is done you saying "hey wait a
>> minute, I also expect you to redo my kitchen and add a deck on the house
>> and since you were here anyway for the bathroom there is no reason for
>> you to charge me anything extra for THAT...."
>>
>
>Well-ll-l... it's a give-n-take thing, really.
>
>Depending on the situation, a 'professional day' can indeed mean working 10 or
>11 or 12 hours in order to make a client's dead-line. At other times, again,
>depending on the situation, a 'professional day' can mean putting in one hour
>and getting paid for 15!
Really? I usually fill out the time doing documentation or building
system monitoring utilities but I'd always figured that I was supposed
to be doing something useful to the project and client.
>
>Once, when I was doing a job for a mortgage company in Miami, the client
>actually took my time sheet away from me, upped the hours reported from 40 to
>90, signed it, and had me FAX it to the agency. Of course, the week before I'd
>stayed until after 10 PM for four days in a row, working with a sub-contractor
>company trying to get the client's AS/400 communicating with the
>sub-contractor's UNIX, and never bothered reporting any of the extra time, even
>though the communications link was not my responsibility (I was writing the
>application program that made the data to be transmitted available). Because of
>all the effort that was put in, the client's project was completed on time and
>well within budget, and the project manager ended up shining in the eyes of
>upper level management. My reward? Besides the extra $$$s, the project manager
>insisted that I be chosen for the subsequent two projects, at a higher hourly
>rate! The agency I worked for remarked that it was very seldom that a client
>would initiate a raise in hourly rates, in order to keep an individual on the
>project.
>
>So, as far as being a contractor, the term 'professional day' is extremely
>flexible.
OK, I gather that this is an industry norm? We Y2K'ers will have to
keep this in mind as the storm clouds gather. Work 4 hours but bill
for 8 in Y2K land? Is this how the real wizards and code crankers
will earn their millions while clueless Pee Cee Wee Nee's are suddenly
converted to legacy systems experts.
>
>Of course, I've heard horror stories too, where a client would expect
>contractors (and permanent people!), to put in enormous hours with no
>recognition or compensation of any sort. These are known as sweat shops and,
>usually, the word gets around fast.
Cory Hamasaki
JCJ0347
>> What does the term "professional day" mean?
>
>
department I was writing a pharmacy system for.
In the blanks provided, I started to work at 8:30am,
took one hour for lunch, and quit at 6:00pm.
This was just ducky with them, and with me, too. Before
I cast about on my own, the company I was working for
in Memphis started at 8:00am, took a short lunch break
(usually with the client) and then hit it again until 6:30 - 7:00.
One thing I remember from my consulting days of the 80's:
NEVER EAT LUNCH WITH THE CLIENT!!
James