Lynch's Spoiler Review: "Qpid"
Timothy W. Lynch
TNG episode, "Qpid". So if you don't want spoilers, don't read it until
they're not spoilers anymore...:-)
They didn't really mean to make this one, did they?
Yech. Not a pleasant experience for the most part. They've finally made a Q
episode I dislike. Damn. But anyway, before I rant on too much, here's a
synop:
After working for hours on a keynote address to the Federation Archaeology
Council symposium that he must deliver, Picard goes to his quarters to get
some rest, but finds a surprise waiting for him--flowers, a card, a horgon,
and Vash.
Everything seems fine at first, but Vash soon discovers that Picard plans to
keep his public dealings with her strictly platonic, and further finds that he
has never mentioned her or their adventures together to any of the bridge
crew. Eventually, at the pre-conference reception, she confronts him about
this. When he tells her that he feels it would have been "inappropriate" to
mention her, she nastily apologizes for causing him so much embarrassment, and
stalks off. Picard, already in a lousy mood, goes to his ready room--where he
finds Q sitting in his chair, and grinning from ear to ear.
Q has returned, or so he says, to repay an old debt. Picard's attempt to
rescue Q last time they met left him owing Picard something, and he wants to
do something nice in return. Picard, however, will have none of it, and
refuses his every offer. Q, annoyed, leaves.
After another fight with Vash, Picard is not happy, and becomes even less so
when Q arrives later that evening and taunts him about having been made so
vulnerable by a woman. He says that his gift should be to remove this
weakness, but Picard angrily refuses. When Picard says that yes, he would
have Q stand idly by while Vash "led him to his destruction", Q smirks and
vanishes.
Q's plan becomes apparent, however, when during Picard's speech, the entire
bridge crew vanishes, only to reappear in Sherwood Forest, appropriately
garbed. Riker is cast as Little John, Data as Friar Tuck, Picard as Robin
Hood...and as Q (as the Sheriff of Nottingham) gleefully comments, Vash, or
Maid Marian, is to be put to death in Nottingham Castle at midday the next
day. Picard is faced with a choice: risk his bridge crew or live with Vash's
death.
Although Vash, confused by her situation, tries to salvage it by agreeing to
marry Sir Guy, Picard soon appears (having come alone by his own choice) to
save her. When she hears he has come alone, however, she refuses to go with
him, and their bickering continues until guards burst into "Marian"'s tower.
Before Picard can begin to fight, Vash takes his sword and captures "Robin"
herself, giving him as a wedding gift to Sir Guy. (She too, however, ends up
under a death sentence when Q discovers and calls attention to her hurried
note to Riker and the Merry Men asking them to come save Picard.)
Riker and the others, not willing to stand idly by under any circumstances,
show up in the nick of time to save Picard and Vash from the chopping block.
"Robin" kills Sir Guy and rescues Maid Marian, and after Q observes that
love brings out the worst in Picard (a statement Vash angrily protests), he
sends everyone back except Vash. A short time later, though, Vash appears to
say goodbye: she's taken on Q as a partner, and they'll explore the universe
together.
There we are. Now, on to commentary:
I've thought about it, and hours later, I've _still_ to see the point behind
this show. It doesn't seem to have had anything to say, or indeed any
coherence whatsoever. That's not a good sign. There really were very few
good signs here at all, in fact.
One objection of mine was that this show put Q in a rut. One big reason I've
enjoyed every Q episode to date (excepting "Encounter at Farpoint") is that
each time, the spin on the character has been different. In "Hide and Q", we
first got a glimpse that he wasn't the only one of his kind, and gained a hint
of his devious nature. "Q Who" showed a terrifying Q, representing precisely
those unknowns that are most dangerous. "Deja Q", on the other hand, showed
the absurd side of Q and his existence, and also a hint of his vulnerability
when turned mortal. "Qpid" didn't do anything new with the character, and in
fact reversed his development significantly in my opinion. ("Deja Q" showed
that perhaps Q had matured just a little, from early adolescence in Farpoint
to late adolescence. "Qpid" had him back to around age 10, I
think...certainly still in the "girls have cooties" stage. Blech.)
A related objection there is that Q *has a past*, and it was pretty much
ignored entirely. Remember, Q was in a way indirectly responsible for
Picard's alteration by the Borg, since he is the one that brought the two
cultures together in the first place. For Picard to see Q and not immediately
think "you bastard, you nearly managed to steal away my SOUL!" is hard to
believe. For Picard to not think that at ALL is stupid beyond belief. (Given
the really poor handling of Q here, I found it very difficult to believe that
this character was the same one who once told Picard "the auditorium's been
rented, the orchestra engaged...it's now time to see if you can _dance.")
I mourn the complete mangling of a previously enjoyable character. (It's not
beyond redemption--just take us to the Qontinuum next time, dammit!)
I have no such mournful sentiments toward Vash, because I never liked her in
the first place. I loathed her in "Captain's Holiday", and I loathed her
here. If they'd given her an actual character and stuck to it, it _might_
have had some chance of working, but to give her this pool of disjointed
scenes and actions to play with was a really rotten move. Yech.
In addition, as long as we're on the subject, I thought that this show was
schizophrenic in a way. It was allegedly about Picard and about his dealings
with Q and Vash, right? Then why did we see so much of Vash: why was every
scene with her in it carefully arranged to show us just what a "stunning babe"
Jennifer Hetrick is, and not to actually do little things like tell us
anything? Her slinking into the captain's chair, the direction as "Robin"
picked up "Marian" then swiveled a full 360 degrees as the guards came in, and
so on--all of them seemed to me to be little more than showing off various
features of Ms. Hetrick. Sorry, but that's not what I'm watching the show
for, guys.
The really depressing thing is that the show didn't HAVE to be as bad as it
was. There were several different occasions where the show might have
redeemed itself, if only it had followed little scene X up, or had had
character Y do something that wasn't 100% formulaic. For several zillion
examples:
--The show COULD have been played straight, dealing with the problems that
happen when a shorebound fling comes back demanding attention. It looked for
a few minutes (during Vash's initial argument with Picard) like they were
going to do that, but it was not to be. Instead, they made it a mix of
bickering between the two of them which I could not possibly see Picard doing
unless drugged and of meaningless playing around with costumes. Yech. (The
only good thing about this point is that it means there's still room for a
decent story which does deal with the above problems, which a friend of mine
is currently writing.)
--It's been shown enough times that Q really doesn't know how the hell humans
think. They could have made Vash's abrupt agreement to marry Guy _really_
throw him, which at least might have changed something for the better.
--They could have had the guts to make Vash completely unscrupulous (which is
how I saw her in "Captain's Holiday". They could have set it up so that she
really DIDN'T care all that much for Picard, and made her capture of "Robin" a
sincere one. But no--she's got to deep down be a decent person who really
does care for Picard. Give me a break.
--They could have actually had Vash go with Picard the first time he tried to
rescue her. It would've changed things a lot, but even a long, not all that
interesting chase sequence would've been miles better than what we were fed.
--It looked like Bev and Vash were getting along so well, we could have had
fun with the two of them teaming up against Picard. That would've been
strictly for laughs, but it could have been fun.
That should do for starters. Other negative points:
--Sexism at Paramount strikes again. In the final battle sequence, Riker,
Geordi, Worf, and Data (and Picard, of course) draw swords and come out
swinging. What do the women do? Vash gets taken to the tower and squeaks a
lot, and Bev and Deanna get to bash people on the heads with vases. Spare me.
--A few alleged "comic relief" scenes that quite honestly rank up there with
the STUPIDEST scenes I've ever seen on TNG. First, we had Worf's smashing of
Geordi's mandolin, complete with "Sorry." right afterwards. Sorry to break it
to Ira Steven Behr (the guy who wrote the teleplay--and he also did the one
for "Yesterday's Enterprise", so he should KNOW better!), but "Animal House"
has already done that, and far better than here. Then, we had Deanna shooting
Data with an arrow. Bo-ring; and also dead wrong, since it's been established
way back since "The Naked Now" that he will at the very least LEAK.
--Just about everybody acted way too stereotypical. Sure, Picard's sometimes
stiff, but I have NEVER seen him as brusque as he was in the early parts of
the show. (Nor have I ever seen him to be so ignorantly trusting as to take
Vash's appearance at face value--I think Stewart just wanted to arrange it so
he had as many chances to lip-mash with Hetrick as possible.) Worf was lousy
as well--he managed to be funny in "Deja Q" without going out of character, so
why did he have to have horrible lines like "I am NOT a MERRY MAN!" and "Nice
legs. [...] For a human."? Yech. The only character who seemed decently
done was Riker, and that's because he only had about 5 lines.
--Although I enjoyed the big climactic sword-fight well enough, I thought the
dialogue was pretty atrocious.
There were a few minor good points, however. While most of the one-liners
were ones I didn't care for in the least, there were a couple of good moments,
such as:
--Riker's attempt to hit on Vash. So Picard does a good Riker-imitation, huh?
THAT I would have liked to see...:-)
--Picard's exchange with Riker right after Q first leaves. This was the high
point of the show for me: "Q? Any idea what he was up to?" "He wants to do
something _nice_ for me." "I'll alert the crew." That was great fun. :-)
--One really nice, sort of technical effect: the galloping of Q's horse is
heard long before Q and the horse actually flash into existence. That was
nice. (The flash was used entirely too many times, though, and I thought Q's
poking his head through Vash's wall was useless.)
--As I said, I enjoyed the sword-fight. It wasn't on "Princess Bride" level
or anything, but it'll do well enough, and it did look like an excuse for most
of the regular cast to run around and have the time of their lives, which
should be worth something. :-)
That's about it, though. I'm sure there are some people who are going to like
this; I suspect it will be the same people who laughed uproariously at
"Captain's Holiday" and "Menage a Troi". I loathed both, and this is no
exception. Sigh. Anyway, here's the wrapup:
Plot: 1. A little bit of potential, but not much more.
Plot Handling: 0. COMPLETELY bungled.
Characterization: 1. Riker was fine, everyone else was crap.
Technical: 4. It's that high for the gallop--I didn't find the medieval
setting believable or interesting, and the Q-effects are growing tiresome.
TOTAL: 1.5. Now *that*'s poor. Easily the worst of this season, and
probably in my bottom 5. Yech.
NEXT WEEK:
Sabotage on the Enterprise, and Picard caught in the ensuing witch-hunt.
Could be interesting...
Tim Lynch (Cornell's first Astronomy B.A.; one of many Caltech grad students)
BITNET: tlynch@citjuliet
INTERNET: tly...@juliet.caltech.edu
UUCP: ...!ucbvax!tlynch%juliet.ca...@hamlet.caltech.edu
"He wants to do something nice for me."
"I'll alert the crew."
--
Copyright 1991, Timothy W. Lynch. All rights reserved, but feel free to ask...
Arthur Tateishi
>WARNING: The following article contains spoiler information about this week's
>TNG episode, "Qpid". So if you don't want spoilers, don't read it until
>they're not spoilers anymore...:-)
>has already done that, and far better than here. Then, we had Deanna shooting
>Data with an arrow. Bo-ring; and also dead wrong, since it's been established
>way back since "The Naked Now" that he will at the very least LEAK.
Actually, this brings up another points. Since Data was hit squarely in the
front, it seems really hard for me to believe he would actually get hit.
We've seen his android reflexes. He should have been able to catch the
arrow in mid flight I would think.
--
Red Alert.
-- Q, "Deja Q", stardate 43539.1
Arthur Tateishi g9ru...@zero.cdf.utoronto.edu
Kevin Rushforth
>TNG episode, "Qpid". So if you don't want spoilers, don't read it until
>they're not spoilers anymore...:-)
>They didn't really mean to make this one, did they?
Yes, I think they did. Make no mistake, it wasn't "First Contact" or
"Reunion" but it wasn't "The [total] Loss" either.
>I've thought about it, and hours later, I've _still_ to see the point behind
>this show. It doesn't seem to have had anything to say, or indeed any
>coherence whatsoever. That's not a good sign. There really were very few
>good signs here at all, in fact.
I felt that it was fairly good comic relief. ST:TNG has always been
weak in the area of comedy. It's the one area where they (still) can't
compete with ST:TOS. Look at the failed attempts so far: "Manhunt",
"Captain's Holiday", "Menage A Troi" and "Devil's Due" to name a few.
Even "Deja Q", which seems to be a net.favorite for some reason I can't
quite fathom, was not really my idea of good comic relief. "Qpid" on
the other hand was a complete romp. Little or no attempt was made at a
serious problem to be solved. Instead, we get an old flame of the
Captain's showing up at the same time as Q, who decides to provide some
fireworks. This episode was a good one for sitting back, relaxing, and
having a laugh or two -- pass the popcorn, please.
>One objection of mine was that this show put Q in a rut. One big reason I've
>enjoyed every Q episode to date (excepting "Encounter at Farpoint") is that
>each time, the spin on the character has been different.
You raise some good points. However, I was never a big Q fan to begin
with so I didn't notice that he was in a rut. Q reminds me too much of
Trelayne, and I hated Trelayne.
>--The show COULD have been played straight, dealing with the problems that
>happen when a shorebound fling comes back demanding attention.
Yes, it could have and that might have been a good story. However,
they were going for comic relief rather than any sort of serious
attempt to deal with the problem. Come to think of it, I dislike most
sitcoms for precisely this reason. I must have *really* needed a good
laugh tonight.
>--A few alleged "comic relief" scenes that quite honestly rank up there with
>the STUPIDEST scenes I've ever seen on TNG. First, we had Worf's smashing of
>Geordi's mandolin, complete with "Sorry." right afterwards. Sorry to break it
>to Ira Steven Behr (the guy who wrote the teleplay--and he also did the one
>for "Yesterday's Enterprise", so he should KNOW better!), but "Animal House"
>has already done that, and far better than here.
I thought this was one of the funniest scenes in the entire episode.
I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy it. The only time I laughed harder was
at Riker's "I'll alert the crew" line.
>That's about it, though. I'm sure there are some people who are going to like
>this; I suspect it will be the same people who laughed uproariously at
>"Captain's Holiday" and "Menage a Troi". I loathed both, and this is no
>exception. Sigh. Anyway, here's the wrapup:
You suspect wrong (at least in my case). I loathed both of the
episodes you named, but quite enjoyed "Qpid". I doubt that it will
stand up to many repeat watchings, but it was a "funny once" sort of
episode. I would place it near the middle of the pack for this season
(although it will probably drop with subsequent viewings).
--
Kevin C. Rushforth | "If winning is not important,
Sun Microsystems | then commander, why keep score?"
| - Lt. Worf
INET: k...@Eng.Sun.COM |
UUCP: <the-backbone>!sun!eng!kcr |
Michael Rawdon
>WARNING: The following article contains spoiler information about this week's
>TNG episode, "Qpid". So if you don't want spoilers, don't read it until
>they're not spoilers anymore...:-)
>They didn't really mean to make this one, did they?
Well, look at it this way: At least someone didn't think this one was worth
preserving for fiftten years until it could be produced like "The Child" and
"Devil's Due" were. (Now THAT'S damning it with faint praise...)
>Yech. Not a pleasant experience for the most part. They've finally made a Q
>episode I dislike. Damn.
You know I didn't care for "Hide & Q". I'm hard-pressed to decide whether
I like this one less than that one or not. But that's a moot point. :-)
>I've thought about it, and hours later, I've _still_ to see the point behind
>this show. It doesn't seem to have had anything to say, or indeed any
>coherence whatsoever. That's not a good sign. There really were very few
>good signs here at all, in fact.
I think the point was intended to be twofold:
1) Humor.
2) Q proving a point - namely, that Picard has an achilles heel.
Both were pretty thoroughly botched, I think. As do you, I think. :-)
>One objection of mine was that this show put Q in a rut. One big reason I've
>enjoyed every Q episode to date (excepting "Encounter at Farpoint")
As long as you bring that up, I might as well bring up a point I don't think
I've mentioned on this group before: I found Q's role in "EaF" to be
entirely superfluous to the story. It would have been a much tighter (and
better) episode if his bits there had been cut out entirely, and the
Farpoint plot wouldn't have been affected in the least.
But anyway, back to our story...
> is that
>each time, the spin on the character has been different. In "Hide and Q", we
>first got a glimpse that he wasn't the only one of his kind, and gained a hint
>of his devious nature. "Q Who" showed a terrifying Q, representing precisely
>those unknowns that are most dangerous. "Deja Q", on the other hand, showed
>the absurd side of Q and his existence, and also a hint of his vulnerability
>when turned mortal. "Qpid" didn't do anything new with the character, and in
>fact reversed his development significantly in my opinion. ("Deja Q" showed
>that perhaps Q had matured just a little, from early adolescence in Farpoint
>to late adolescence. "Qpid" had him back to around age 10, I
>think...certainly still in the "girls have cooties" stage. Blech.)
I think this is a pretty fair analysis of how and why Q was mishandled here.
I'd argue that "Hide & Q" suffered from the same problem (among others),
but "Q Who" and "Deja Q" did at least make significant attempts at tackling
the points you raise.
I rather suspect that someone decided, after watching "Deja Q", that Q is
"the perfect comedic character for Trek" and ended up pushing this episode
through somehow. Bad decision. I think playing up Q's, well, not really
*malicious* side, but I'm not quite sure what to call it, as in "Q Who"
and letting any humor necessary grow from there is the way to go.
>A related objection there is that Q *has a past*, and it was pretty much
>ignored entirely. Remember, Q was in a way indirectly responsible for
>Picard's alteration by the Borg, since he is the one that brought the two
>cultures together in the first place. For Picard to see Q and not immediately
>think "you bastard, you nearly managed to steal away my SOUL!" is hard to
>believe. For Picard to not think that at ALL is stupid beyond belief.
Hm, I hadn't thought of that. You're quite correct here, of course. Now,
maybe if Q had shown up wanting to do something nice for Picard, and Picard
had jumped on him about the Borg, and they'd built the story from THERE
(I'll let your imaginations run with the ball from there :-) it might have
turned out to be a really interesting episode. There's certainly plenty
of material there to take the Picard-Q "feud" farther than it's ever been
taken before.
>In addition, as long as we're on the subject, I thought that this show was
>schizophrenic in a way. It was allegedly about Picard and about his dealings
>with Q and Vash, right? Then why did we see so much of Vash: why was every
>scene with her in it carefully arranged to show us just what a "stunning babe"
>Jennifer Hetrick is, and not to actually do little things like tell us
>anything? Her slinking into the captain's chair, the direction as "Robin"
>picked up "Marian" then swiveled a full 360 degrees as the guards came in, and
>so on--all of them seemed to me to be little more than showing off various
>features of Ms. Hetrick. Sorry, but that's not what I'm watching the show
>for, guys.
I don't even think she's very attractive. In fact, she reminded me rather
of K'Eleyhr as far as beauty goes: Uggh. But then, that's just personal
taste.
[Suggestions on how to have improved the episode:]
>--It looked like Bev and Vash were getting along so well, we could have had
>fun with the two of them teaming up against Picard. That would've been
>strictly for laughs, but it could have been fun.
Maybe. They'd have had to substantially improve on the interaction we saw
on the show, which I found very tedious.
>--A few alleged "comic relief" scenes that quite honestly rank up there with
>the STUPIDEST scenes I've ever seen on TNG. First, we had Worf's smashing of
>Geordi's mandolin, complete with "Sorry." right afterwards. Sorry to break it
>to Ira Steven Behr (the guy who wrote the teleplay--and he also did the one
>for "Yesterday's Enterprise", so he should KNOW better!), but "Animal House"
>has already done that, and far better than here.
I think it only worked in Animal House because John Belushi was THE person
who could pull such a scene off.
> Then, we had Deanna shooting
>Data with an arrow. Bo-ring; and also dead wrong, since it's been established
>way back since "The Naked Now" that he will at the very least LEAK.
Another good point I hadn't thought of.
>--Just about everybody acted way too stereotypical. Sure, Picard's sometimes
>stiff, but I have NEVER seen him as brusque as he was in the early parts of
>the show. (Nor have I ever seen him to be so ignorantly trusting as to take
>Vash's appearance at face value--I think Stewart just wanted to arrange it so
>he had as many chances to lip-mash with Hetrick as possible.) Worf was lousy
>as well--he managed to be funny in "Deja Q" without going out of character, so
>why did he have to have horrible lines like "I am NOT a MERRY MAN!"
I liked this line. I bet that in a better overall episode, you might have
also. The timing seemed off here, though.
> and "Nice
>legs. [...] For a human."? Yech.
I hated this line with a passion. Seemed very out-of-character to me.
> The only character who seemed decently
>done was Riker, and that's because he only had about 5 lines.
It's kind of scary that Jonathan Frakes seemed to slip to comfortably into
the sleaze in this episode. It doesn't exactly speak well of him as an
actor. It's especially sad since we know he can do better...
>There were a few minor good points, however. While most of the one-liners
>were ones I didn't care for in the least, there were a couple of good moments,
>such as:
>--Riker's attempt to hit on Vash. So Picard does a good Riker-imitation, huh?
>THAT I would have liked to see...:-)
I didn't care for this bit. Riker "on the prowl" is a bit I can do without
seeing on Star Trek.
>--Picard's exchange with Riker right after Q first leaves. This was the high
>point of the show for me: "Q? Any idea what he was up to?" "He wants to do
>something _nice_ for me." "I'll alert the crew." That was great fun. :-)
This was the other joke in the episode I liked.
>That's about it, though. I'm sure there are some people who are going to like
>this; I suspect it will be the same people who laughed uproariously at
>"Captain's Holiday" and "Menage a Troi". I loathed both, and this is no
>exception. Sigh. Anyway, here's the wrapup:
>Plot: 1. A little bit of potential, but not much more.
>Plot Handling: 0. COMPLETELY bungled.
>Characterization: 1. Riker was fine, everyone else was crap.
>Technical: 4. It's that high for the gallop--I didn't find the medieval
>setting believable or interesting, and the Q-effects are growing tiresome.
>TOTAL: 1.5. Now *that*'s poor. Easily the worst of this season, and
>probably in my bottom 5. Yech.
Major yawns all around. The pepsi machine near my TV is as interesting.
>NEXT WEEK:
>Sabotage on the Enterprise, and Picard caught in the ensuing witch-hunt.
>Could be interesting...
I'm cautiously optimistic. This material is certainly ripe with potential
for Great Things, but McCarthyism has come to SF/fantasy in many forms
before, so it's going to have to come up with some fresh twist on the idea
(which shouldn't be too hard, but it IS easy to fall into the trap of
simplicity) to really make me sit up an notice.
Of course, if some of the guest characters we saw in the preview are nicely
fleshed out, that could give it the kick to send it into the stratosphere
(grade-wise) all by itself. We shall see...
--
Michael Rawdon raw...@rex.cs.tulane.edu (Internet)
Tulane University, New Orleans, Louisiana CS6FECU@TCSVM (Bitnet)
"Communication is hard to establish
when things like a state of mind get in the way.
People don't eat, they just think what you feed them now;
The horse with the blinders eating the hay."
- Men Without Hats, "The Great Ones Remember"
Timothy W. Lynch
>In <1991Apr26....@nntp-server.caltech.edu> tly...@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>WARNING: The following article contains spoiler information about this week's
>>TNG episode, "Qpid". So if you don't want spoilers, don't read it until
>>they're not spoilers anymore...:-)
>>They didn't really mean to make this one, did they?
>Well, look at it this way: At least someone didn't think this one was worth
>preserving for fiftten years until it could be produced like "The Child" and
>"Devil's Due" were. (Now THAT'S damning it with faint praise...)
Boy, that's true. Fifteen years? Hell, this looked like it had been written
in fifteen MINUTES.
>>One objection of mine was that this show put Q in a rut. One big reason I've
>>enjoyed every Q episode to date (excepting "Encounter at Farpoint")
>As long as you bring that up, I might as well bring up a point I don't think
>I've mentioned on this group before: I found Q's role in "EaF" to be
>entirely superfluous to the story. It would have been a much tighter (and
>better) episode if his bits there had been cut out entirely, and the
>Farpoint plot wouldn't have been affected in the least.
Probably true, but EaF was pretty useless in any case except for being a
semi-decent introduction to the characters.
>> is that
>>each time, the spin on the character has been different.
[...]
>>"Qpid" didn't do anything new with the character, and in
>>fact reversed his development significantly in my opinion. ("Deja Q" showed
>>that perhaps Q had matured just a little, from early adolescence in Farpoint
>>to late adolescence. "Qpid" had him back to around age 10, I
>>think...certainly still in the "girls have cooties" stage. Blech.)
>I think this is a pretty fair analysis of how and why Q was mishandled here.
>I'd argue that "Hide & Q" suffered from the same problem (among others),
>but "Q Who" and "Deja Q" did at least make significant attempts at tackling
>the points you raise.
"Hide and Q" is the weakest example of the three, certainly, but it did a
lot better at defining something about Q than this did.
>I rather suspect that someone decided, after watching "Deja Q", that Q is
>"the perfect comedic character for Trek" and ended up pushing this episode
>through somehow. Bad decision. I think playing up Q's, well, not really
>*malicious* side, but I'm not quite sure what to call it, as in "Q Who"
>and letting any humor necessary grow from there is the way to go.
Absolutely. DeLancie himself has said things like this. A ways back, there
was an interview with him where he mentioned the different spins on the
character all the way back to Farpoint (many of which I agreed with, a few of
which I didn't), and said that he thought the next thing he'd like to do with
Q was turn him REALLY nasty, and have him go after Picard with no ifs, ands, or
buts about it. Pity he wasn't listened to--I think "Deja Q" did tend to make
a lot of people think "Q = comedy", and that's just wrong. (Someone back in
Ithaca saw "Deja Q" first of all the Q episodes, and was really surprised by
how much more serious he was in "Q Who".)
As I've said elsewhere, if I knew "Deja Q" would lead to this, I'd have rooted
for the Calamarian. :-)
>>A related objection there is that Q *has a past*, and it was pretty much
>>ignored entirely. Remember, Q was in a way indirectly responsible for
>>Picard's alteration by the Borg, since he is the one that brought the two
>>cultures together in the first place. For Picard to see Q and not immediately
>>think "you bastard, you nearly managed to steal away my SOUL!" is hard to
>>believe. For Picard to not think that at ALL is stupid beyond belief.
>Hm, I hadn't thought of that. You're quite correct here, of course.
Of course. :-)
>Now,
>maybe if Q had shown up wanting to do something nice for Picard, and Picard
>had jumped on him about the Borg, and they'd built the story from THERE
>(I'll let your imaginations run with the ball from there :-) it might have
>turned out to be a really interesting episode. There's certainly plenty
>of material there to take the Picard-Q "feud" farther than it's ever been
>taken before.
Boy, you're not kidding there. Something, ANYTHING to do with that aspect
of the feud would be starting out miles better than what we got.
>I don't even think she's very attractive. In fact, she reminded me rather
>of K'Eleyhr as far as beauty goes: Uggh. But then, that's just personal
>taste.
True. I'm not enchanted by Ms. Hetrick myself, although I do have a certain
fondness for Suzie Plakson (K'Ehleyr). But, as you say, personal tastes.
>>--A few alleged "comic relief" scenes that quite honestly rank up there with
>>the STUPIDEST scenes I've ever seen on TNG. First, we had Worf's smashing of
>>Geordi's mandolin, complete with "Sorry." right afterwards. Sorry to break it
>>to Ira Steven Behr (the guy who wrote the teleplay--and he also did the one
>>for "Yesterday's Enterprise", so he should KNOW better!), but "Animal House"
>>has already done that, and far better than here.
>I think it only worked in Animal House because John Belushi was THE person
>who could pull such a scene off.
Probably true. Dorn, in other roles, might be able to do it, but it didn't
make sense for Worf.
>>Worf was lousy
>>as well--he managed to be funny in "Deja Q" without going out of character,
>>so why did he have to have horrible lines like "I am NOT a MERRY MAN!"
>I liked this line. I bet that in a better overall episode, you might have
>also. The timing seemed off here, though.
Actually, I've given this a little more thought. It's not the line I disliked,
but the delivery. If they'd had Worf grumble it under his breath, I'd probably
have loved it to small pieces.
>>There were a few minor good points, however.
>>--Riker's attempt to hit on Vash. So Picard does a good Riker-imitation, huh?
>>THAT I would have liked to see...:-)
>I didn't care for this bit. Riker "on the prowl" is a bit I can do without
>seeing on Star Trek.
Oh, it's usually fun. His exchange with Lal in "The Offspring" was tremendous-
ly funny.
>>NEXT WEEK:
>>Sabotage on the Enterprise, and Picard caught in the ensuing witch-hunt.
>>Could be interesting...
>Of course, if some of the guest characters we saw in the preview are nicely
>fleshed out, that could give it the kick to send it into the stratosphere
>(grade-wise) all by itself. We shall see...
The only strong negative thing in the preview was that it looks like Jean
Simmons can't act worth beans. But if the other guests are decent, and if, as
it appeared in the preview, they play up a lot of differing opinions on the
matter within the bridge crew, this could be quite interesting. As you say,
we shall see.
Tim Lynch (Cornell's first Astronomy B.A.; one of many Caltech grad students)
BITNET: tlynch@citjuliet
INTERNET: tly...@juliet.caltech.edu
UUCP: ...!ucbvax!tlynch%juliet.ca...@hamlet.caltech.edu
"If this is the year 6 million and 3, why is next year 6 million and 2? Why
are we counting backwards? I mean, what are we waiting for?"
--"Dinosaurs"
Timothy W. Lynch
>In article <1991Apr26....@nntp-server.caltech.edu> tly...@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
"Qpid" spoilers ahead...
>>They didn't really mean to make this one, did they?
>Yes, I think they did. Make no mistake, it wasn't "First Contact" or
>"Reunion" but it wasn't "The [total] Loss" either.
I far preferred "The Loss" to this, actually, and I didn't think "The Loss" was
all that good.
>>I've thought about it, and hours later, I've _still_ to see the point behind
>>this show. It doesn't seem to have had anything to say, or indeed any
>>coherence whatsoever. That's not a good sign. There really were very few
>>good signs here at all, in fact.
>I felt that it was fairly good comic relief.
Differing senses of comedy, then. I thought it was trying to be good comic
relief, but I wasn't laughing.
>ST:TNG has always been
>weak in the area of comedy. It's the one area where they (still) can't
>compete with ST:TOS. Look at the failed attempts so far: "Manhunt",
>"Captain's Holiday", "Menage A Troi" and "Devil's Due" to name a few.
Well, I rather enjoyed "Manhunt", but I'm with you on the other 3.
>Even "Deja Q", which seems to be a net.favorite for some reason I can't
>quite fathom, was not really my idea of good comic relief. "Qpid" on
>the other hand was a complete romp. Little or no attempt was made at a
>serious problem to be solved.
Ah. Here's my problem. Complete romps are fine, but "Deja Q" managed to be
funny and still keep the characters consistent and solid. "Qpid" didn't. I
really didn't see these characters as being the same ones I usually see
Wednesday nights at 8. I don't care if any serious problem exists or not,
but if they're going to mangle the characters, I'm going to loathe it, pure
and simple.
>>--The show COULD have been played straight, dealing with the problems that
>>happen when a shorebound fling comes back demanding attention.
>Yes, it could have and that might have been a good story. However,
>they were going for comic relief rather than any sort of serious
>attempt to deal with the problem. Come to think of it, I dislike most
>sitcoms for precisely this reason. I must have *really* needed a good
>laugh tonight.
:-) I'm not saying they could have done the above without changing 90% of the
show--I don't think they could have. But I'd have preferred that.
>>--A few alleged "comic relief" scenes that quite honestly rank up there with
>>the STUPIDEST scenes I've ever seen on TNG. First, we had Worf's smashing of
>>Geordi's mandolin, complete with "Sorry." right afterwards. Sorry to break it
>>to Ira Steven Behr (the guy who wrote the teleplay--and he also did the one
>>for "Yesterday's Enterprise", so he should KNOW better!), but "Animal House"
>>has already done that, and far better than here.
>I thought this was one of the funniest scenes in the entire episode.
I suppose someone had to...
>I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy it. The only time I laughed harder was
>at Riker's "I'll alert the crew" line.
That was one of the VERY few places where I really was laughing. That exchange
was superb.
Tim Lynch (Cornell's first Astronomy B.A.; one of many Caltech grad students)
BITNET: tlynch@citjuliet
INTERNET: tly...@juliet.caltech.edu
UUCP: ...!ucbvax!tlynch%juliet.ca...@hamlet.caltech.edu
Michael Rawdon
>In article <1991Apr26....@nntp-server.caltech.edu> tly...@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>WARNING: The following article contains spoiler information about this week's
>>TNG episode, "Qpid". So if you don't want spoilers, don't read it until
>>they're not spoilers anymore...:-)
>>They didn't really mean to make this one, did they?
>Yes, I think they did. Make no mistake, it wasn't "First Contact" or
>"Reunion" but it wasn't "The [total] Loss" either.
Oh, I thought "The Loss" was much better than "Qpid". Which doesn't mean
that I liked "The Loss", though.
> This episode was a good one for sitting back, relaxing, and
>having a laugh or two -- pass the popcorn, please.
Well, you're accurate in that I got exactly two laughs out of the episode...
:-)
>>One objection of mine was that this show put Q in a rut. One big reason I've
>>enjoyed every Q episode to date (excepting "Encounter at Farpoint") is that
>>each time, the spin on the character has been different.
>You raise some good points. However, I was never a big Q fan to begin
>with so I didn't notice that he was in a rut. Q reminds me too much of
>Trelayne, and I hated Trelayne.
I think the Trelayne/Q sort of character was interesting the first time, and
far less so thereafter. (Many contend that Q is not a Trelayne clone; I
strongly disagree. There are some minor differences, but the basic
character is the same.) Also, while I think John DeLancie is a great actor,
he as Q doesn't compare, IMHO, to William Campbell as Trelayne. Possibly
because Trelayne was tailored to the episode in which he appeared.
>>--A few alleged "comic relief" scenes that quite honestly rank up there with
>>the STUPIDEST scenes I've ever seen on TNG. First, we had Worf's smashing of
>>Geordi's mandolin, complete with "Sorry." right afterwards. Sorry to break it
>>to Ira Steven Behr (the guy who wrote the teleplay--and he also did the one
>>for "Yesterday's Enterprise", so he should KNOW better!), but "Animal House"
>>has already done that, and far better than here.
>I thought this was one of the funniest scenes in the entire episode.
I liked it in "Animal House" simply because John Belushi's character was the
sort of complete asshole who could pull off such a gag. With Worf, who is
a basically nice guy, if a bit gruff, I felt it fell flat.
Dana Leigh Dreyfuss
i have a nitpick for lynch and a question for all.
data was not shown fighting.
what was that thing from data's arm?
dana
Timothy W. Lynch
>It could have been fixed (IMHO) if they:
>1. Cut the intro from 20 minutes to 5. Amazingly enough, the three people
>I talked to about this said the same thing, two of them before I even had a
>chance to say it 8-).
Probably true, but it depends on what went into the other 15 minutes.
>2. Made the "robin hood" scene longer, more detailed, and less predictable.
The first two, for me, would depend very strongly on the third. If they made
it less predictable, that would have been a VAST improvement.
>As an example of how it could have gone, consider Q's expression when he
>started talking to Vash just before he had her arrested. He was
>*interested*: this was something he hadn't counted on, a human (besides
>Picard) in whom he was interested. They could have had this take up about
>20 minutes or so (maybe just 15), and it would have been very interesting to
>see Q and Vash get to know each other.
Err...maybe, but by that time I was finding Vash so objectionable that I
doubt I'd have enjoyed seeing still more of her.
Tim Lynch
dli...@eagle.wesleyan.edu
> WARNING: The following article contains spoiler information about this week's
> TNG episode, "Qpid". So if you don't want spoilers, don't read it until
> they're not spoilers anymore...:-)
>
> They didn't really mean to make this one, did they?
>
> Yech. Not a pleasant experience for the most part. They've finally made a Q
> episode I dislike. Damn. But anyway, before I rant on too much, here's a
> synop:
> There we are. Now, on to commentary:
>
> I've thought about it, and hours later, I've _still_ to see the point behind
> this show. It doesn't seem to have had anything to say, or indeed any
> coherence whatsoever. That's not a good sign. There really were very few
> good signs here at all, in fact.
I don't think there was much point to the show nor that there should have been.
This is Star Trek Light.
>
> One objection of mine was that this show put Q in a rut.
Agreed. I liked Delancey's performance and like the "I'm here to pay you back
cause I don't like owing you nothing" stuff but he doesn't mature much. Q
could be used for alot more than "Look, I've transported you to another
dangerous place." Or if they continue on that thread, at least make it a
serious attempt. I think this epsidoe would have had more potential had they
expanded on either the Vash-Picard troubles or the Sherwood forest stuff. I
would have really liked to see more of the crew fooling around in their Robin
Hood characters. It still would have been a light episode, but more enjoyable.
> A related objection there is that Q *has a past*, and it was pretty much
> ignored entirely. Remember, Q was in a way indirectly responsible for
> Picard's alteration by the Borg, since he is the one that brought the two
> cultures together in the first place. For Picard to see Q and not immediately
> think "you bastard, you nearly managed to steal away my SOUL!" is hard to
> believe. For Picard to not think that at ALL is stupid beyond belief. (Given
> the really poor handling of Q here, I found it very difficult to believe that
> this character was the same one who once told Picard "the auditorium's been
> rented, the orchestra engaged...it's now time to see if you can _dance.")
> I mourn the complete mangling of a previously enjoyable character. (It's not
> beyond redemption--just take us to the Qontinuum next time, dammit!)
>
Again agreed, though I don't think it's a *complete* mangling. Maybe Picard
was *so* distracted by Vash...(Nah.)
> I have no such mournful sentiments toward Vash, because I never liked her in
> the first place. I loathed her in "Captain's Holiday", and I loathed her
> here. If they'd given her an actual character and stuck to it, it _might_
> have had some chance of working, but to give her this pool of disjointed
> scenes and actions to play with was a really rotten move. Yech.
I didn't see Cap's Holiday but I didn't like Vash. I seriously hope they do
not bring her back, especially as part of the Q continuum.
>
> The really depressing thing is that the show didn't HAVE to be as bad as it
> was. There were several different occasions where the show might have
> redeemed itself, if only it had followed little scene X up, or had had
> character Y do something that wasn't 100% formulaic. For several zillion
> examples:
>
> --The show COULD have been played straight, dealing with the problems that
> happen when a shorebound fling comes back demanding attention. It looked for
> a few minutes (during Vash's initial argument with Picard) like they were
> going to do that, but it was not to be. Instead, they made it a mix of
> bickering between the two of them which I could not possibly see Picard doing
> unless drugged and of meaningless playing around with costumes. Yech. (The
> only good thing about this point is that it means there's still room for a
> decent story which does deal with the above problems, which a friend of mine
> is currently writing.)
Picard was a little out of character, hm...?
>
> --They could have actually had Vash go with Picard the first time he tried to
> rescue her. It would've changed things a lot, but even a long, not all that
> interesting chase sequence would've been miles better than what we were fed.
This I would have liked to see...
>
> --It looked like Bev and Vash were getting along so well, we could have had
> fun with the two of them teaming up against Picard. That would've been
> strictly for laughs, but it could have been fun.
This I would have liked to see too...
> That should do for starters. Other negative points:
>
> --Sexism at Paramount strikes again. In the final battle sequence, Riker,
> Geordi, Worf, and Data (and Picard, of course) draw swords and come out
> swinging. What do the women do? Vash gets taken to the tower and squeaks a
> lot, and Bev and Deanna get to bash people on the heads with vases. Spare me.
Thank you for someone finally noticing this! Even without accusing anyone of
sexism (which it is) it doesn't follow in the plot...Troi was practicing her
aim with Data - at least have her try to shoot an arrow.
>
> --A few alleged "comic relief" scenes that quite honestly rank up there with
> the STUPIDEST scenes I've ever seen on TNG. First, we had Worf's smashing of
> Geordi's mandolin, complete with "Sorry." right afterwards. Sorry to break it
> to Ira Steven Behr (the guy who wrote the teleplay--and he also did the one
> for "Yesterday's Enterprise", so he should KNOW better!), but "Animal House"
> has already done that, and far better than here. Then, we had Deanna shooting
> Data with an arrow. Bo-ring; and also dead wrong, since it's been established
> way back since "The Naked Now" that he will at the very least LEAK.
Oh, come on....These were some of my favorite scenes. (Besides "He want's to
do me a favor. I'll alert the crew.") The comedy, especially in Sherwood was
the redeeming quality of this episode.
>
> --Just about everybody acted way too stereotypical. Sure, Picard's sometimes
> stiff, but I have NEVER seen him as brusque as he was in the early parts of
> the show. (Nor have I ever seen him to be so ignorantly trusting as to take
> Vash's appearance at face value--I think Stewart just wanted to arrange it so
> he had as many chances to lip-mash with Hetrick as possible.) Worf was lousy
> as well--he managed to be funny in "Deja Q" without going out of character, so
> why did he have to have horrible lines like "I am NOT a MERRY MAN!" and "Nice
> legs. [...] For a human."? Yech. The only character who seemed decently
> done was Riker, and that's because he only had about 5 lines.
More later...
David M. Linder
Sean Eric Fagan
>In article <1991Apr26....@nntp-server.caltech.edu>, tly...@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>> WARNING: The following article contains spoiler information about this week's
>Agreed. I liked Delancey's performance and like the "I'm here to pay you back
>cause I don't like owing you nothing" stuff but he doesn't mature much. Q
>could be used for alot more than "Look, I've transported you to another
>dangerous place." Or if they continue on that thread, at least make it a
>serious attempt. I think this epsidoe would have had more potential had they
>expanded on either the Vash-Picard troubles or the Sherwood forest stuff. I
>would have really liked to see more of the crew fooling around in their Robin
>Hood characters. It still would have been a light episode, but more enjoyable.
It could have been fixed (IMHO) if they:
1. Cut the intro from 20 minutes to 5. Amazingly enough, the three people
I talked to about this said the same thing, two of them before I even had a
chance to say it 8-).
2. Made the "robin hood" scene longer, more detailed, and less predictable.
As an example of how it could have gone, consider Q's expression when he
started talking to Vash just before he had her arrested. He was
*interested*: this was something he hadn't counted on, a human (besides
Picard) in whom he was interested. They could have had this take up about
20 minutes or so (maybe just 15), and it would have been very interesting to
see Q and Vash get to know each other.
There were parts of the 'rh' scenes I liked. My main objection to it was
that it was too *short*: there was no time to *do* anything. Grrrr. But
that was like the rest of the episode: Crusher and Vash had some
interesting possibilities, also, but they were cut off too soon.
--
Sean Eric Fagan | "I made the universe, but please don't blame me for it;
s...@kithrup.COM | I had a bellyache at the time."
-----------------+ -- The Turtle (Stephen King, _It_)
Any opinions expressed are my own, and generally unpopular with others.
Brian Scearce
With a name like Hat-trick, you know she's going to be back for
one more episode.
--
Brian Scearce (b...@robin.svl.cdc.com -or- robin!b...@shamash.cdc.com)
"Don't be surprised when a crack in the ice appears under your feet..."
Any opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect CDC corporate policy.
Michael Rawdon
>>In <1991Apr26....@nntp-server.caltech.edu> tly...@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>I don't even think she's very attractive. In fact, she reminded me rather
>>of K'Eleyhr as far as beauty goes: Uggh. But then, that's just personal
>>taste.
>Ok, if Vash or K'Eleyhr ever show up wanting your bod, you can just send
>'em to me--since you're not interested :-)
You mis-attributed the article you quoted. It was I who typed those words.
Tim merely (?) responded to them.
While it's not of Earth-shaking importance in this instance, getting your
attributions wrong can ruffle a lot of feathers in other circumstances.
Be warned.
Adams Douglas
>In <1991Apr26....@nntp-server.caltech.edu> tly...@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>I don't even think she's very attractive. In fact, she reminded me rather
>of K'Eleyhr as far as beauty goes: Uggh. But then, that's just personal
>taste.
Ok, if Vash or K'Eleyhr ever show up wanting your bod, you can just send
Mark Runyan
>WARNING: The following article contains spoiler information about this week's
>TNG episode, "Qpid". So if you don't want spoilers, don't read it until
>they're not spoilers anymore...:-)
Drat! I suspect you're right. I liked it and I remember laughing at
those two episodes...
Mark Runyan {r.a.s. [not-so-]random rationalizer}