{ASSD} My method of story development
Sigerson
stories that I posted. He wanted to know why all three
stories started so similarly. I had posted a comment about
all three stories starting from the same premise and they
would naturally start the same way. Two other readers
mentioned this same point, which makes me wonder why I
posted the explanation. One reader actually liked the
explanation and the idea of three stories starting at the
same point but going in totally different directions.
That got me thinking about the way that I start writing a
story. I thought I would share my method with all of you.
Usually it starts when I visualize a scene that is quite
vivid. Not all of the detail is present but there is enough
that I can write a description that is strong enough to
recreate it in my mind later on. Each of these scenes is
about one page of single spaced text.
The scene includes a description of the setting, time of day,
number of people present, what the characters are doing there,
what led them to be there, where they plan to go next. The
characters are usually sketches at this point but the room
or setting is described very well. There is no plot or story
line at this point.
The three Cabin stories all started with the scene of a
truck driving up a mountain with a one male and one female
occupant. The rough and twisting road with branches brushing
against the windshield was the setting. The occupants of the
vehicle were not described in the scene. I just specified
that there was one male and one female in the truck.
The ages and relationship of the two occupants was not
important when I wrote down the scene. I got back to this
opening scene about six months after I first wrote it down. I
decided to try an experiment by creating three pairs of
characters and creating a story out of each set. I kept
the names of the characters the same in each story and even
had the names usable by males and female.
I wrote down the three pairs of characters and then developed
a plot for each pair. The stories that came from this
experiment were posted earlier this week. The first story
took about one week to write and only went through one major
rewrite and two proofreads. The other two stories took about
two weeks to write and only went through one rewrite and one
proofread each. By that time I was tired of the concept and
getting my characters mixed up with each other because of the
common names. For a time I was working actively on three
stories at once.
These scenes are not really story ideas. I do have files of
those also but I have found that if the idea is not worth
pursuing at the time I write it, it is usually not worth
pursuing at all.
All of the stories that I have posted have started as
scenes not as story ideas.
The writing classes that I took in college insisted that
good stories come from strong characters. I have found this
to be the case. They also insisted that we develop
characters first. But I find those strong characters are
difficult to develop without some context in which to place
them. That is why I started using this scene-character-plot
method of story development.
Do any of you write this way? I can't believe that I am the
only one. Based on my output of posted stories this does
not appear to be an efficient way of writing.
I have a several of these scene files that I can turn to
when I need the beginning of a story or a turning point.
When I use a scene as a turning point I have to create
the things that happened before and after the scene so that
usually ends up being more difficult to write. All of the
stories that have come from these turning point scenes are
still on my hard drive and are in no danger of being inflicted
on an unsuspecting world.
How do you develop a story?
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Frank Downey
Sigerson wrote in message <94tfoa$1m8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>How do you develop a story?
From a character, usually. Sometimes from a character plus situation--
usually the situation is defined by the character, though. In The Perfect
Six, I started with, "Michael, frustrated and demanding pairs skater."
With Dance of a Lifetime, my novel, I started with, "Sophia, abused
bad girl trying to make good." That was the "germ", so to speak.
Sometimes I get a scene, but that scene usually is a "character defining"
scene for my first character. With the novel, the first scene that I
envisioned
was the one where Sophia comes to work with a black eye. That started
the whole process.
There are two exceptions to this, "Alexandra" and "Changeup." This is
because none of the main characters in these two stories are figments
of my imagination. "Changeup" *did* start with a scene--the whole story
is pretty much a scene piece--but that was also a scene based on the
personality and habits of my main female character, who happens to be
my wife <G>. "Alexandra" was a story about an idea--"What if two people
very much in love who broke up at a young age for a very stupid reason
*hadn't*?"
However, everything else I have written--including (I think) everything in
my
extensive hopper, starts with a character. Usually it's a character with a
story to tell, but the story is only a brief bit, and the writing is
fleshing the bit
and the character out.
Since the vast majority of my stories are romances, I think this only stands
to
reason. I don't think *any* romance is interesting unless the writer makes
you
care about the characters, so *all* my romances are character-based.
Even "Alexandra" is about a character, it just so happens that the character
is
a fictionalized version of a person I've known IRL for 28 years, so the
story didn't *start* with the creation of a character. <G>.
Frank
Katie McN
On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 03:36:42 GMT, you might have said:
<edit of Sigerson's story development method>
I've read quite a number of writing books and find that successful
authors follow all different story development methods and the rule
seems to be that the one the works is the one you should use.
'The one that works' means a method that actually produces stories
people want to read. We hear over and over again about the BHC and how
this person or that has 50, 100, 150 or more stories in some state of
not complete on their hard drive. The method they are using might not
be a good one.
I'm currently writing two stories for fans as a tune up for an
important long form story I'm working on as a collaboration. I have
one story for an author that will happen after the collaboration. I
just released a story called Katie McN:A Slut's Story which can be
found here
http://www.asstr.org/files/Collections/Eli.The.Bearded/Alt.Sex.Stories.Moderated/Year2001/28521.
While each story started out from a different idea, the process I use
is the same.
Once I have the idea I think about it for some period of time. This
could be a day or a week and sometimes more than that. The main pieces
fall together during this time and at a certain point I have to start
writing. I call this point the place where the story is forcing itself
out.
I used to develop a lot of the same documentation you describe in your
post, but I no longer do that. I found that the story will start
writing itself at a certain point and so all the preliminary work I do
is generally a waste of time. Frequently this is a way to avoid
starting to write and yet sill feel like some work is being
accomplished. An outline is enough to get me going and possibly a
character description if these are characters I've not used before.
I use the Word Outliner to develop my story outline. The title is the
first line and then I use a single indent for the hook, 1 or more
scenes and a conclusion. Each of these is further described with
phrases covering the flow of action in the scene. If the scene is
quite complicated the flow may be broken down further with additional
phrases.
Once I'm happy with the outline I open a new document in split screen
so I can see both pages at the same time. I have a 21 inch monitor
which lets me see enough of each document so I can work without a lot
of manipulation.
I usually start from the top and try to write in sequence. Recently
I've been writing stories in the 4000-6000 word range. It usually take
me two or three sessions to create what U call the rough draft. I
start each writing session by editing what I did in the prior
sessions. This serves several purposes. First, it helps me remember
what the story is all about. Next, it's a warmup to get me started on
the next part. Finally, it reduces the amount of editing I have to do
before I send the story off to Denny Wheeler for the actual editing.
When I've completed the rough draft, I go through it one or more times
editing out things that don't make sense. I like to reduce the size of
the story and throw things out during this phase. I try to find wasted
words and problems I frequently introduce to the story. My editor is
very good at this sort of thing, but I try to catch as much as I can
up front so he can concentrate on the fine points.
Once I have a proposed rough draft, I read the story aloud in
monotone. I've found my eyes will play tricks on me and read what's
not there or skip over things that shouldn't be there. For some reason
this doesn't happen when I speak the story out loud. I use monotone
because I don't want to add anything that won't be their for the
reader. If I read it like a story telling session, the reading might
overcome problems that will still be there when it is read another
person.
I let the story sit for a day and read it over again. I've always
found that there are going to be little things that have to change
during this process.
When I've finished all that I send the story to Denny. Sometimes he
sends it back and says it's done. He can change my stories and doesn't
have to inform me that he does. In some cases he questions story
concepts and I do a rewrite. Since I'm not in love with any of it, I
usually have no problem making the changes that he suggests. He may
get the story back at this point for another go round or I could just
send it out depending on what changed.
Like everyone else, I run into writers block. For me this usually is a
fear of the story. There are several reasons why this happens. I may
not really know what I want to do with the story and stall until
something comes to me. It's possible that I have other projects in
mind and wander off to play with them instead of doing the hard work
of finishing what I started. I feel overwhelmed by what I'm doing and
hide from it.
All of the above seem to be related to fear. There is the fear of not
knowing how my story will end. There is the fear that the story isn't
any good and so I'd rather do something else that might be better.
There is a fear that I'm not as good as someone else and so stall on
writing a given work. One example of this is SF Nights. I'm writing
with Michael D who is a better writer. Even though he has never once
said anything of a comparative nature, I know what's going on and
stall in getting my part done because I am more critical of myself
than anyone else can be.
How do I overcome fear and get stories written. It's quite easy. Once
It's time to start producing, I make a list of the stories and write
them one at a time in order. If I'm stuck on a given story, I don't
start in on another one. Instead I continue to write until I've
written five pages. That is my minimum output for a given day. If the
stuff turns out to be crap I throw it away. I've found that one
paragraph, one page or one day later the tide turns and better stuff
starts showing up. Eventually the story is finished and I do all the
steps mentioned above.
What about my hopper? I just completed a story using the method I
describe and it is well received and I should be standing around high
fiving Lexi. Instead I'm working on the next story on the list and it
will be ready for Denny tonight. I will be looking at it right after I
finish sending e mail and then off it goes. I will start on the next
story tonight or tomorrow and probably will have that story ready in
some days. The reason I'm pressing so hard is that I want to get
started on a story further down the list but won't break my own rules
and just start working on it. In this way the "better" stuff acts as
an incentive for me to get the rest of the work out.
My hopper is the four stories I consider in process and these others.
Artist and Model. A key story in the Mary Kay series which I can't
work out yet. I'm still in the thinking stage on this one and have
been for a year or more.
I'll Do Anything. I think we need a Pred around just to keep us on our
toes. This is my idea of what Pred might write if he were still with
us. Eventually I will finish this story and head for the fallout
shelter when everyone gets a chance to read it.
Hecate Does Texas. This is a collaboration possibility with Hecate. We
have some general ideas but ran into technical problems and I lost
interest for awhile and then I ended up in the hospital. Eventually we
will do this story.
Which Witch. This will be my Halloween story for next year.
Sequel to Slut's Story. I think I'll be doing a Revenge of the Slut
but haven't decided when it will get done.
Sequel to Karen:School for Sluts. The first part is the story I'm
getting ready for editing tonight. The sequel will have something to
do with her after she graduates from college.
Novel. I continue to plan on ending the Katie R series with a novel
called Katie at 15. I don't feel like ending the series yet so this
stays on the shelf.
Novel. The Mary Kay stories are concept tests for a novel I plan on
writing. I want to write a literate FF Rom story and just about have
it worked out, but don't know when I can start it.
Non-Fiction. I'm working up a proposal now for a non-fiction work and
expect to write it sometime this year. This will be published in the
regular press and not on assm.
I suspect that much of what is described above will be done within 12
months and when we arrive in 2002 my hopper will be no bigger than it
is now. I suspect this has something to do with my style of work and
the discipline I use when I write.
I would very much like to here from other people who would be willing
to share their methods. And, I hope Rui Jorge could start a web page
for the methods. We talked about this before when we had the
discussion on categories and lost the opportunity to save some
valuable material. I think this thread could provide a lot of useful
information which authors could benefit from over time.
--
It's me! Your pal,
Katie McN <kati...@excite.com>
Read all my stories at:
www.asstr.org/~Katie_McN
Frank Downey
Katie McN wrote in message ...
>'The one that works' means a method that actually produces stories
>people want to read. We hear over and over again about the BHC and how
>this person or that has 50, 100, 150 or more stories in some state of
>not complete on their hard drive. The method they are using might not
>be a good one.
I don't know if that's true, because I think the reasons for big hoppers are
as varied as the number of people who have them.
There are two reasons I have a big hopper: First, if I do not *start* a
story,
I forget it. Even if I'm not sure where I'm going from the beginning, I need
to get the beginning written, so I have something to work on. I've never
been able to work with written outlines--all editors may now flog me <G>--
but I can't do it, except for a very, *very* bare-bones sketch I made for
the novel that keeps getting changed anyway <G>.
The other reason I have a big hopper is that I'm very good at writing
the beginning, and usually very good at knowing where I'm going to
end up, but the middle comes slow. I've got one I'm working on right
now--I knew the setup, and I knew how I wanted the two characters
to come together, but getting from the setup to that point is now in it's
fifth draft <G>. The novel is a particular piece of hell from this
standpoint,
because I've got "signposts" plotted, but getting from point A to point B
is the bitch. For example, right now my characters are in March in a
particular year, and I've got a Big Big Plot Development that is happening
from September to November, and I'm furiously trying to get from March
to September, and set the Big Plot Development up correctly, and I am
having some trouble.
My other problems are this--I get *lots* of ideas at once and, like I said,
if I don't start it, I won't remember it. Also, I *prefer* having more than
one cooking at the same time. If I only work on one thing at a time,
I get overloaded. I'll often have three things open in Word at once,
and switch back and forth in the middle of one writing session. Weird,
I know, but I'm the type of person that can't concentrate on reading
a book unless either the stereo or the TV is going at the same time
<G>. And I *always* listen to music while I write, always, always, always.
>Once I have the idea I think about it for some period of time. This
>could be a day or a week and sometimes more than that. The main pieces
>fall together during this time and at a certain point I have to start
>writing. I call this point the place where the story is forcing itself
>out.
I do that, too, but like I said, I have to write *something* at the initial
point.
>I use the Word Outliner to develop my story outline. The title is the
>first line and then I use a single indent for the hook, 1 or more
>scenes and a conclusion. Each of these is further described with
>phrases covering the flow of action in the scene. If the scene is
>quite complicated the flow may be broken down further with additional
>phrases.
God, I wish I could use outlines <G>. That, I know, *is* a defiency
in my writing.
>I usually start from the top and try to write in sequence. Recently
>I've been writing stories in the 4000-6000 word range. It usually take
>me two or three sessions to create what U call the rough draft. I
>start each writing session by editing what I did in the prior
>sessions.
This, I highly recommend, if you write in spurts like I do, or Katie
does. If, when you come back to something, you edit what you've
already done, IMHO it helps the flow considerably.
>Once I have a proposed rough draft, I read the story aloud in
>monotone. I've found my eyes will play tricks on me and read what's
>not there or skip over things that shouldn't be there.
Another great idea that I use. I find it especially valuable for
finding annoying little typos. I don't have an editor, so if I
make a mistake--which I have--my readers usually
catch it--which they do <G>. And it's embarrasing.
I confused two of my character's names in the novel, and
got a flood of embarrasing emails <wry grin>.
>When I've finished all that I send the story to Denny. Sometimes he
>sends it back and says it's done. He can change my stories and doesn't
>have to inform me that he does. In some cases he questions story
>concepts and I do a rewrite. Since I'm not in love with any of it,
*That* I envy. I'm in love with all of it, even the crummy stuff <G>.
Someone
once said--about songs, which I also write--that they are like babies.
Probably especially true for us men, especially those of us who suffer
womb-envy <VBG>. Writing's the closest thing I'll get to birthing a
baby.
Emotionally attatched? Moi? <G>
>Like everyone else, I run into writers block. For me this usually is a
>fear of the story. There are several reasons why this happens. I may
>not really know what I want to do with the story and stall until
>something comes to me.
Well, for me, that's not fear of the story. It's that my muse has gone
off-line and is not responding to my entreating, desperate attempts
at communication <G>. I've seen Katie write before about her
writing style, and I've gotten the impression that she does not
subscribe to the Divine Intervention theory of writing. I do. I channel
the things, and if The Muse is on strike, there ain't nothin' there to
work with.
>All of the above seem to be related to fear. There is the fear of not
>knowing how my story will end. There is the fear that the story isn't
>any good and so I'd rather do something else that might be better.
This *does* happen. What I do, is I force myself to keep going back
to the one that I'm afraid isn't very good, stare at it some more, and
see what comes. If nothing comes, my fears are confirmed--it's
not going anywhere--and I scrap it. I just did that with one of mine,
although I am going to attempt to start it again and take it in a different
direction from the beginning. I decided that my main female character
did not work, so she's being revamped.
>I would very much like to here from other people who would be willing
>to share their methods. And, I hope Rui Jorge could start a web page
>for the methods. We talked about this before when we had the
>discussion on categories and lost the opportunity to save some
>valuable material. I think this thread could provide a lot of useful
>information which authors could benefit from over time.
I agree. There's some great stuff in Katie's post, especially
if you're writing style is at all like hers--and, even if it's not,
since I got some good stuff out of it, too.
Frank
Stasya T. Canine
wrote:
>A reader asked me a question regarding the last set of
>stories that I posted. He wanted to know why all three
>stories started so similarly. I had posted a comment about
>all three stories starting from the same premise and they
>would naturally start the same way. Two other readers
>mentioned this same point, which makes me wonder why I
>posted the explanation. One reader actually liked the
>explanation and the idea of three stories starting at the
>same point but going in totally different directions.
There were the 'Foursome' projects that involved different authors
going with the same characters and basic setting. Some excellent work
was produced in those.
I have two stories that went like this:
Photograph
Comment.
Poem
Two stories (On the site I called it 'one line, one author, two
genres.)
If anyone is interested, they are titled 'Taste of Her Smile' and
listed in the 'Contests and Challenges' area of my site.
***
Now, on to 'How?'
My mind seethes with ideas, thus the large hopper. I have a different
attitude than Katie's. IRL, there are constant interruptions so I
never expect even a short-short to get finished at one go. RL,
especially my SO, takes priority over the writing.
I also feel, based on my own experience, that I can drop a story at
any point and usually return to it and pick up where I left off. "If
it was good enough to start, then it's good enough to finish." If I,
as the author, can't drop the story in the middle and have it 'tell
me' where it's going to go when I reread what I have, *then* there's a
problem with it. I can't expect what's there to lead the reader to
the next part. That's when I look at rewriting or put it down and
wait for inspiration. One story sat for almost 3 years before a
thread in the ng triggered a way to continue. The result was I
finished the one in the hopper in a way that it led to the story
inspired by the thread. <plug: The "Summer Nights' series -
zoo/best. The thread was 'Maria's Challenge'.>
In some cases, letting a partial story sit has led to a continuation
that was better than what I had originally intended.
The bottom line of course is that everyone has their own ways of
writing, :)
As for actual technique, I'm one of the heretics.
Generally I have a core concept or scene.
I build at least one character.
I turn the character or characters loose with the initial idea and let
them tell the story as it happened to them.
That's it.
I don't get along with outlines. The few times I have tried to write
to any sort of an outline I produced stories that felt extremely
forced. I wanted one thing, the characters insisted on something
else.
The result of my last attempt to work to an outline has never been
posted. A couple of years later, someone gave me a good intro for it
and the result, which was much better than the original part two, got
posted.
I want my stories to 'feel real'. Life can't be scripted except in a
very general sense of knowing where you want to go, imo. So, I don't
script my stories in any detail. Even my series work is more fitb
than anything else.
The technique is what I'm used to. It works for me and there are a
few folks who tell me the results satisfy them. :)
I don't see it as undisciplined. 'Non-disiplined' is closer.
'Disconnected' would work too. It takes a *lot* of self-discipline to
let my characters take over and run the fingers so they can tell
*their* story without my interfering.
Maybe my age has something to do with my perspective on writing. I'm
patient and willing to take a long term view. Unless the story itself
is demanding to be completed or I've deliberately agreed to a time
limit, I don't worry about how soon I can finish it. The muse may
sometimes go on vacation but hey, around me, she's certainly earned
those vacations and we get along much better when she returns. She
and I have had a lot of fun together since the summer of 95 (and long
before that).
The Lady and I have an agreement. She gets plenty of seriousness
elsewhere. Enough to overload her. So, by the time she and I get
together, she's more interested in having a little free-form fun than
she is anything else.
Suits me just fine. <g>
---
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Stasya T. Canine
<Fab4...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>My other problems are this--I get *lots* of ideas at once and, like I said,
>if I don't start it, I won't remember it. Also, I *prefer* having more than
>one cooking at the same time. If I only work on one thing at a time,
>I get overloaded. I'll often have three things open in Word at once,
>and switch back and forth in the middle of one writing session. Weird,
>I know, but I'm the type of person that can't concentrate on reading
>a book unless either the stereo or the TV is going at the same time
><G>. And I *always* listen to music while I write, always, always, always.
>
I often eat and read a book at the same time. <g>
I think you make a good point here about 'multi-tasking'. My own
theory about this is that by having the right amount of 'distraction',
it keeps the controlling part of the mind from jumping in and fully
taking over a story. The idea in creative writing, is of course, to
*be creative*. Removing the everyday discipline so you can do that -
is a learned skill like any other skill.
I think the average person fears the lack of discipline that 'good'
creativeness requires.
The trick is to meld that lack with enough discipline to be able to
express what has been created.
How many times have we heard: "I can read it, enjoy it, but I just
can't *do* it."
Now, if I could just convince a certain person that he really can 'do
it'... If fact, he does it quite well. His style is oriented towards
one-liners and paragraphs rather than longer works. That's all.
Mr Slot
of creative writing.
My method doesn't work.
Yup, it's true. I've read reams of pages on how to write and they
mostly tell how you should do a character synopsis, write some
guidelines, and just generally prepare.
The only preparation I do is to make sure there's enough Coke handy
(the drink, not that other stuff).
Seriously, when I sit down to write a story I have something in my
head, an image maybe, a phrase, sometimes even a song. This image,
phrase or song might be the begriming of a story, or a middle, or an
end. Either way the mind is ready and I begin to write. Yup, I just
write. The story just pours out of my fingers and into the keyboard
(Now there's a yucky image).
Damn, this is actually hard to explain. It's like a reflex, or an
instinct or something with me. I'll try to explain why this is so, if
you'll excuse the tangent.
When I was young, stuff happened. Unfortunately a lot of this stuff
was things I couldn't handle (a personality thing really, my brother
went through the same but did a lot better than me) so I tended to
draw into myself a lot. A real lot, to the point where the A word was
bandied about. While I was like this my mind would make up stories,
adventures for me where life was really pretty cool. I still do this,
make up "what if" stories in my mind and let them play out.
Now then, where was I? Oh yeah. I start to write a story, with say
character A. Character A needs motivation so I "ask" them.
"That guy at the table, the one with the four blondes hanging off him.
How do you feel about that?"
"Pretty pissed off actually."
"Why is that?"
"Well, because he has all those women with him and I have nothing.
It's not fair."
And so on. The characters build their own personality, which I let
them do, I don't try to force personality traits on them, otherwise
their growth would be stilted. This works pretty well for me. It has
some very interesting side effects too.
Fer instance, in the last story I wrote something happened which took
me by surprise. A plot twist in the story that I didn't see coming
until it was on me. Another thing that happened was that some of the
characters displayed traits that were, well, not nice. I found this to
be quite strange as these characters where supposed to be the heros.
Turns out they were not as nice as I first thought.
Now I know that some of you are thinking that Mr Slot has a few
kangaroos loose in the top paddock. That's ok, I can live with it
because it has it's benefits.
If you're also thinking, "Hmm, looks like Mr Slot doesn't know what's
happening in his own stories until he writes them" then you would be
right, I don't. I feel like I'm getting to read a new story before
anyone else. And for this privilege I just have to write it down so
others can read it if they choose to do so.
So that's pretty much my technique. I don't set guidelines, I just let
the juices flow. It works for me, but I doubt it works for everyone.
If someone were to ask me how they could learn to write a story I
couldn't tell them. I could make suggestions, offer advice, but I
couldn't tell them how to actually write stories because I don't know
how they think, or how their creativity works. I do know one thing
though, and it may upset some people but here goes.
It's entirely possible that you can't write. Well not creatively
anyway. This is not a bad thing, it's just the way life is. I wish I
could draw, I really do. I also wish I could play guitar, write music
and be a famous sports star. It's not gonna happen though.
Find what you're good at and enjoy it, because that's your special
talent. And take satisfaction in the knowledge that people will be
jealous of you.
; )
Mr Slot
On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:22:30 GMT, "Frank Downey"
<Fab4...@prodigy.net> chose to put into words the following :-
>
>Katie McN wrote in message ...
> >'The one that works' means a method that actually produces stories
>>people want to read. We hear over and over again about the BHC and how
>>this person or that has 50, 100, 150 or more stories in some state of
>>not complete on their hard drive. The method they are using might not
>>be a good one.
Writers never lie.
They tell the truth from a different perspective.
Katie McN
On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:30:37 GMT, you might have said:
<editing>
>
>I think the average person fears the lack of discipline that 'good'
>creativeness requires.
>
>The trick is to meld that lack with enough discipline to be able to
>express what has been created.
>
>How many times have we heard: "I can read it, enjoy it, but I just
>can't *do* it."
>
>Now, if I could just convince a certain person that he really can 'do
>it'... If fact, he does it quite well. His style is oriented towards
>one-liners and paragraphs rather than longer works. That's all.
>
Good luck on that one. I've given it a try myself, but the "unnamed"
person seems adamant about not writing a classic tale of his own. ;-(
Stasya T. Canine
wrote:
>Okay, I guess I might as well say something about the Mr Slot school
>of creative writing.
>
>My method doesn't work.
>
>Yup, it's true. I've read reams of pages on how to write and they
>mostly tell how you should do a character synopsis, write some
>guidelines, and just generally prepare.
>
>The only preparation I do is to make sure there's enough Coke handy
>(the drink, not that other stuff).
"What you said!!!!"
You said it better than I did.
"How do you write?"
"Hell if I know. It just happens."
I wonder if we should start adding the 'as told to:' byline on our
stuff. Certainly would be a bit more 'honest' about where they came
from. :/
I solved the 'preparation' angle by having the computer between the
bed and the computer. Someday I'll put the microwave on top of the
fridge. I do mean between. The custom shelves are built in next to
the bed, which is also a built in platform. The refrigerator is on
the other side of a divider that used to be one side of my clothes
closet.
Been many a time when the muse woke me up and I simply rolled out of
bed to the computer in response. <g>
Stasya T. Canine
wrote:
>Hi Stasya T. Canine <sta...@despammed.counsellor.com>!
>
>>Now, if I could just convince a certain person that he really can 'do
>>it'... If fact, he does it quite well. His style is oriented towards
>>one-liners and paragraphs rather than longer works. That's all.
>>
>Good luck on that one. I've given it a try myself, but the "unnamed"
>person seems adamant about not writing a classic tale of his own. ;-(
Actually, he's been writing it. It's called 'Interjections' and it's
an ongoing work posted to ASSD that's been 'in progress' for about 2
years now. <g>
Stasya T. Canine
<sta...@despammed.counsellor.com> wrote:
>I solved the 'preparation' angle by having the computer between the
>bed and the computer. Someday I'll put the microwave on top of the
I *meant* 'bed and refrigerator'. <sigh>
Jeff Zephyr
wrote:
>A reader asked me a question regarding the last set of
>stories that I posted. He wanted to know why all three
>stories started so similarly. I had posted a comment about
>all three stories starting from the same premise and they
>would naturally start the same way. Two other readers
>mentioned this same point, which makes me wonder why I
>posted the explanation. One reader actually liked the
>explanation and the idea of three stories starting at the
>same point but going in totally different directions.
Maybe, they missed the comment? Wasn't it in a separate post, not
in each story section?
>That got me thinking about the way that I start writing a
>story. I thought I would share my method with all of you.
>
>Usually it starts when I visualize a scene that is quite
>vivid. Not all of the detail is present but there is enough
>that I can write a description that is strong enough to
>recreate it in my mind later on. Each of these scenes is
>about one page of single spaced text.
That way can work. I tend to mix scene and characters. The
characters are together in a place where the situation can become
interesting. The scene, for me, is very much what the characters are
doing, and what they feel. Something unusual, a tension, shock,
surprise.
>These scenes are not really story ideas. I do have files of
>those also but I have found that if the idea is not worth
>pursuing at the time I write it, it is usually not worth
>pursuing at all.
Story ideas are shorter.
>All of the stories that I have posted have started as
>scenes not as story ideas.
I'd think most of mine did. Some are nothing more than scenes. The
story only covers a few minutes or hours, maybe days. I don't know, I
can write a *lot* of things into a weekend meeting, so even if it is
just one scene, it ends up having a lot of decoration around it.
>The writing classes that I took in college insisted that
>good stories come from strong characters. I have found this
>to be the case. They also insisted that we develop
>characters first. But I find those strong characters are
>difficult to develop without some context in which to place
>them. That is why I started using this scene-character-plot
>method of story development.
>
>Do any of you write this way? I can't believe that I am the
>only one. Based on my output of posted stories this does
>not appear to be an efficient way of writing.
It is hard to tell what is efficient or best for writing. I'm sure
that whatever method works for you is a good one.
My own method may not be efficient, for finishing stories, but it is
pretty good for starting them. I'll have an idea for a story, and
daydream it a bit, before writing it. If the idea feels like an
interesting fantasy in my mind, it can turn into an interesting story
when it gets fleshed out. Often, a chance real life thing can trigger
this, or a memory.
>I have a several of these scene files that I can turn to
>when I need the beginning of a story or a turning point.
>When I use a scene as a turning point I have to create
>the things that happened before and after the scene so that
>usually ends up being more difficult to write. All of the
>stories that have come from these turning point scenes are
>still on my hard drive and are in no danger of being inflicted
>on an unsuspecting world.
>
>How do you develop a story?
I use different methods, depending on length and purpose. My main
method is straightforward. I envision the tale in my mind, as a
situation. I then write out what happened, briefly, beginning to end.
At least, to the end of a chapter. Sometimes, I make notes on the
characters, but usually, I have them well in mind when I write the
story, and fill it out with dialog or descriptions in this phase.
That leaves a rough 1st draft. It looks like some of the stories
I've seen posted ;-) but I'm not willing to leave it in that state.
From this version, I'll rewrite it as a 2nd draft, adding details.
Shorter tales work better writing the thing out from my mind as a
whole. Start at the beginning, go to the end. Works best for under
3000 words, 5000 tops. I do write longer stuff. Some of you might
have noticed.
Memory/reality based stories tend to be a mix. If I have the
situation clear in mind, I can just write out the story. But often,
it is easier to write out what happened, as I'd tell it to a friend
(or post here ;-), without turning it into a story. No or little
dialog, "just the facts Ma'am" style. OK for a start, but not what I
want as a *story*. To finish, I rewrite it adding dialog and details,
descriptions, feelings, trying to get across what happened as if I was
there, rather than telling someone else about it. Linking these parts
together is also tricky. Chronology in memory is often confusing -- I
know what happened, but not for sure which things involving different
people happened when.
Not sure if that helps. My stories get stuck sometimes because I'm
not content with the finish, find it hard to make certain scenes come
out as I'd like. Not because I can't finish the story line, or don't
know what will happen next. That can happen, but so far, it is only
in longer tales, series, where I can pick up what happens next, but
could stop it at the current episode. Each part can stand on its own.
#1 reason for not finishing is real life interruptions. Given a
choice between writing about sex and doing it, I have a hard time
writing (though it makes a nice preparation activity). There are many
other interruptions, and I find it hard to write amid distractions.
--
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
Jeff Zephyr
wrote:
>Hi Sigerson <hsig...@my-deja.com>!
>
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 03:36:42 GMT, you might have said:
>
><edit of Sigerson's story development method>
>
>I've read quite a number of writing books and find that successful
>authors follow all different story development methods and the rule
>seems to be that the one the works is the one you should use.
Absolutely. The hard part is getting finished stories out that you
like. Anything that makes that happen is a good idea.
>'The one that works' means a method that actually produces stories
>people want to read. We hear over and over again about the BHC and how
>this person or that has 50, 100, 150 or more stories in some state of
>not complete on their hard drive. The method they are using might not
>be a good one.
I'm not sure about that, but as a BHC member there might be
something to it.
Part of it has to do with being picky. Most incomplete stories are
either fairly well along (1st draft completed), or just outlines and
scene sketches, suitable for using later, when I feel like turning
them into the full story the idea inspired. I can't work on it all,
due to lack of time, so I make choices.
>I'm currently writing two stories for fans as a tune up for an
>important long form story I'm working on as a collaboration. I have
>one story for an author that will happen after the collaboration. I
>just released a story called Katie McN:A Slut's Story which can be
>found here
>http://www.asstr.org/files/Collections/Eli.The.Bearded/Alt.Sex.Stories.Moderated/Year2001/28521.
>While each story started out from a different idea, the process I use
>is the same.
Pressure to finish can help. Doesn't matter if it is from the
outside (fan demands) or internal (promise yourself you'll work on
it). Once you get going on a tale, you might find it easier to write.
Getting started on it can be harder.
Finishing it, OTOH, is one of my weaknesses.
For the Nympho Challenge, I did Angelina in short order. Now, I
actually thought about the thing for a couple weeks before writing it.
Then, I used my rough draft/2nd draft method to write it out, with one
more pass for very simple editing. If I hadn't got the rough draft to
feel right, I never would have got to the next step.
A story can sit at any of these stages: #1 -- the idea. Not even a
whole story concept, just the bare bits, enough to inspire later. #2,
rough draft. It is a story, start to finish, but there is a lot
missing, either in details, dialog, character, or polish. #3, well, a
story can be partway through 2nd draft too, as Angelina part 3 is. I
know what I've wrote to happen, but have to spell it all out. #4, 2nd
draft done, but not ready to edit it. #5, it is edited, but I'm not
happy with it, and put it away for later. By many standards, it is
done at this point (some could call a story done at stage #2 ;-).
>Once I have the idea I think about it for some period of time. This
>could be a day or a week and sometimes more than that. The main pieces
>fall together during this time and at a certain point I have to start
>writing. I call this point the place where the story is forcing itself
>out.
I think about the story bits a lot, especially when I have nothing
else to occupy my mind. I may not write it down at all until I have a
full idea in mind.
On Angelina part 3, since it is still in progress, I can describe
what I've done well. First draft was done before the holidays, but I
didn't want to post it. Putting it off due to RL things meant that
when I resumed writing, I had to reread it all again, thinking about
how I wanted the scenes to come off. That took a few days ;-)
Next, writing. I didn't do a word count, but I spent a lot of time
covering the scene in the morning, following the events of part 2.
Guess? 3000-5000 words, it is a short story in itself. One love
scene, with several sex acts, and some more background. That is about
where I left off. The next scene introduces Janey, her new
teacher/lover, and I just know I'm going to have a lot to say about
that. There are another dozen scenes ;-) I could shorten it, and it
may actually turn into parts 3 and 4 (or more), as I don't want any
one part to go much over 6k words, for posting reasons.
Given time, I feel I can just write out the rest. I have in my mind
the feeling of what happened, and the rough draft covers the
activities in short, if not the details or dialog. It will get done
now, at least to stage #4.
My edit pass on Angelina #1/#2 was fast. I did send it to Katie for
her comments, but the essential story was already there, just cleaning
up.
But my muse pushes me into other areas. JZL, a huge project, gets
things dropped in when they come to mind. Remembering everything that
was interesting in my life (up to college graduation, my cut off time
for personal reasons -- things more recent tend to involve current
relationships, and I'm just not ready to fictionalize them for an
audience) isn't easy, and when a nice memory scene comes up, I want to
write it down. Or work on earlier parts, adding things I find hard to
write about the first time, easier after thinking a while.
I could take those memories, and put them to other characters, not
use them in my personal tale. But it seems like a waste. I can make
up imaginary things just fine, and I do use RL memories for
inspiration. My fantasy life seems to work out great, no trouble
finding interesting ideas tucked away in my imagination. Finding ones
I can let out is harder, but it still works fine.
>I used to develop a lot of the same documentation you describe in your
>post, but I no longer do that. I found that the story will start
>writing itself at a certain point and so all the preliminary work I do
>is generally a waste of time. Frequently this is a way to avoid
>starting to write and yet sill feel like some work is being
>accomplished. An outline is enough to get me going and possibly a
>character description if these are characters I've not used before.
Outlines do sometimes help. For really long stories, character lists
too. Naming is a problem. Especially JZL, where I have to rename
most people in it ;-) But that isn't always a big deal in writing,
finding names for people and stuff.
>I let the story sit for a day and read it over again. I've always
>found that there are going to be little things that have to change
>during this process.
I tend to let it sit longer. But not always. I'll be chomping at
the bit, or something like that, wanting to post it if I feel it is
good, and done. Especially, done, so I don't have to work on it again
;-) So, sending it off for editing makes me impatient.
>When I've finished all that I send the story to Denny. Sometimes he
>sends it back and says it's done. He can change my stories and doesn't
>have to inform me that he does. In some cases he questions story
>concepts and I do a rewrite. Since I'm not in love with any of it, I
>usually have no problem making the changes that he suggests. He may
>get the story back at this point for another go round or I could just
>send it out depending on what changed.
I sometimes love parts of it, but usually can tell that editing
suggestions are meant to help. A few cases, it is misunderstanding,
but if my editor doesn't understand, readers may not either, so a bit
of fixing can help it.
[snip good method and story info]
>I would very much like to here from other people who would be willing
>to share their methods. And, I hope Rui Jorge could start a web page
>for the methods. We talked about this before when we had the
>discussion on categories and lost the opportunity to save some
>valuable material. I think this thread could provide a lot of useful
>information which authors could benefit from over time.
It could be. I don't know if I can try other people's methods, but
I can find things they do which fit my style, perhaps, and use them to
help me out.
Biggest help for finishing it having time to write, and using it for
writing rather than other activities. I can't write as much as I'd
like to, but I can easily put off writing when I have the chance, just
by letting myself think about how I just don't know how to start,
today. Perhaps tomorrow will be better. Or, I have this other work
to do, it is important. Or I just want to play, and other kinds of
play are fun too, necessary. But not always as satisfying as
finishing a story.
Frank Downey
Mr Slot wrote in message ...
>Seriously, when I sit down to write a story I have something in my
>head, an image maybe, a phrase, sometimes even a song.
I've got one in my hopper that was triggered by a song. I was listening
to music, writing something else, and this song came on, and
immediately suggested a story. The song lyrics are *very*
non-specific, but a specific story line suggested itself.
No, I'm not telling you which song until I post the story <G>.
Since my novel involves Ice Dancing, I use music a *lot*
in developing ideas. I have all of the characters program music
cut, on my hard drive, and I've got their programs choreographed
in my head. And, yeah, that is an important part of the story,
because they relate to one another on the ice.
What was that you said about kangaroos loose in the top paddock? <G>
>When I was young, stuff happened. Unfortunately a lot of this stuff
>was things I couldn't handle (a personality thing really, my brother
>went through the same but did a lot better than me) so I tended to
>draw into myself a lot. A real lot, to the point where the A word was
>bandied about. While I was like this my mind would make up stories,
>adventures for me where life was really pretty cool. I still do this,
>make up "what if" stories in my mind and let them play out.
(nodding in agreement)
>And so on. The characters build their own personality, which I let
>them do, I don't try to force personality traits on them, otherwise
>their growth would be stilted. This works pretty well for me. It has
>some very interesting side effects too.
The Big Plot Development I referred to in my novel, is already
written (I'm still trying to connect the dots to get to it.) And one
of my characters did something *very* unexpected, which led the
other main character to react to that with something that was
equally unexpected. I had set up a scenario, that I thought I was
going to neatly resolve. No way. The characters, and the
personalities that they had developed, would not allow a neat
resolution.
>Now I know that some of you are thinking that Mr Slot has a few
>kangaroos loose in the top paddock. That's ok, I can live with it
>because it has it's benefits.
I've always believed that all creative people are a little "off". <G>
>It's entirely possible that you can't write. Well not creatively
>anyway. This is not a bad thing, it's just the way life is. I wish I
>could draw, I really do. I also wish I could play guitar, write music
>and be a famous sports star. It's not gonna happen though.
My brother and I have had this argument. He's a terrific visual artist,
and can't understand why I can't draw a straight line. <G> I just
*can't*. He can't sing, either, but thinks that I can only because
I'm a trained singer. Bullshit. I can sing because I can sing, he can't
because he can't. And all the training in the world wouldn't
help me draw <G>.
Frank
dennywS...@zipcon.net
>. And I *always* listen to music while I write, always, always, always.
<Mode: editor>
And I *always* listen to the Beatles while I write, always, always,
always.
</Mode>
-denny-
curmudgeon and editor
--
"What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)
Frank Downey
dennywS...@zipcon.net wrote in message ...
>On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:22:30 GMT, "Frank Downey"
><Fab4...@prodigy.net> held forth, saying:
>
>>. And I *always* listen to music while I write, always, always, always.
>
><Mode: editor>
>And I *always* listen to the Beatles while I write, always, always,
>always.
></Mode>
Y'see.........editors. Never know what's going on.
I have a small hard drive, so I keep my MP3s on CDs. I've got upwards
of thirty. Every Beatles song they ever released and a few they didn't
fit on *two*.
I've been writing most of the afternoon. Right now I've got Bruce
Springsteen
Live at Winterland '78 in my headphones. Before that, it was some
swing music. The first thing I put in was The Beach Boys--Pet Sounds
and some bootlegs of the legendary unreleased Smile.
The Beatles are my favorite, but they're not the only.............
Frank
dennywS...@zipcon.net
<Fab4...@prodigy.net> held forth, saying:
>>Seriously, when I sit down to write a story I have something in my
>>head, an image maybe, a phrase, sometimes even a song.
>
>I've got one in my hopper that was triggered by a song. I was listening
>to music, writing something else, and this song came on, and
>immediately suggested a story. The song lyrics are *very*
>non-specific, but a specific story line suggested itself.
There are songs which tell me, "I am part of (or the trigger for) a
good sex story." But I haven't that creative spark needed to go from
point A to point B. For a long time, I'd thought that about "Angel of
the Morning" so a few weeks back I sent Souvie an mp3 of the Merilee
Rush version of it. She wrote a very good story from that.
dennywS...@zipcon.net
held forth, saying:
> Absolutely. The hard part is getting finished stories out that you
>like. Anything that makes that happen is a good idea.
For some, the hard part is getting any form of a start of a story.
Period.
Jeff Zephyr
>On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:07:08 -0600, Jeff Zephyr <jeff...@hotmail.com>
>held forth, saying:
>
>> Absolutely. The hard part is getting finished stories out that you
>>like. Anything that makes that happen is a good idea.
>
>For some, the hard part is getting any form of a start of a story.
>Period.
Ok, that can be true. But if you start a story, you still need to
finish.
Hecate
wrote:
>Hi Stasya T. Canine <sta...@despammed.counsellor.com>!
>
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:30:37 GMT, you might have said:
>
><editing>
>>
>>I think the average person fears the lack of discipline that 'good'
>>creativeness requires.
>>
>>The trick is to meld that lack with enough discipline to be able to
>>express what has been created.
>>
>>How many times have we heard: "I can read it, enjoy it, but I just
>>can't *do* it."
>>
>>Now, if I could just convince a certain person that he really can 'do
>>it'... If fact, he does it quite well. His style is oriented towards
>>one-liners and paragraphs rather than longer works. That's all.
>>
>Good luck on that one. I've given it a try myself, but the "unnamed"
>person seems adamant about not writing a classic tale of his own. ;-(
Well, being the stubborn person I am, I keep nudging him every now and
again. One day.....
Hecate
"Nescit vox missa reverti" Horace
heca...@excite.co.uk
ICQ:59088833
Hecate
>On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:47:09 GMT, "Frank Downey"
><Fab4...@prodigy.net> held forth, saying:
>
>>>Seriously, when I sit down to write a story I have something in my
>>>head, an image maybe, a phrase, sometimes even a song.
>>
>>I've got one in my hopper that was triggered by a song. I was listening
>>to music, writing something else, and this song came on, and
>>immediately suggested a story. The song lyrics are *very*
>>non-specific, but a specific story line suggested itself.
>
>There are songs which tell me, "I am part of (or the trigger for) a
>good sex story." But I haven't that creative spark needed to go from
>point A to point B. For a long time, I'd thought that about "Angel of
>the Morning" so a few weeks back I sent Souvie an mp3 of the Merilee
>Rush version of it. She wrote a very good story from that.
>
Oy yeah, sure. If you have thye idea for the story you can write it.
Plenty of us willing to help. Go on, admit it, you're such a
tight-ass editor, you daren't let someone else edit something you've
written! ;-)
Hecate
wrote:
<major snip>
>How do you develop a story?
>
>
First, comes the idea. No idea, no story. As soon as I have an idea,
it gets put into my database (aka hopper) and I mull it over until I
have a title - unless the idea suggests an immediate title, otherwise
the idea is just numbered in the db.
Nerxt, when I feel I have suffiecntly thought out the idea, I use Word
to write an outline. The outline is linked to, and launched from, the
db. Any other ideas concerning the story are then easy to add and all
the data is in one place.
The outline, apart from the title, is based on the idea(s) i have had,
but I don't necessarily write a sequence of events, but a series of
ndented ideas which seem to follow the pattern I have in my head. Like
Kaie, when I start writing I have both the outline up and a virgin
page in Word. I start writing based on the outline, but do not
necessrily follow it. If things change as I am writing the story, then
I follow the changes. These changes usually come about as a natural
development of what I have already written, and often replace ideas in
the outline. This is because, I often find when writing the story,
that the natural development of the storyline and characters precludes
what I had a first thought, and brings to mind other things I had not
thought of.
When the first draft is written, I get the computer to read it back to
me. Computer vocalisation is ideal for picking out things that don't
sound right as you get no emotion in the voice. Rather like Katie's
monotone in fact, but without the effort <g>
When I'm happy with the draft, I send it to my editor, Denny, who
sends it back with all sorts of scrawls through it. ThenI have to sit
down and do it properly. ;-) Usually, one more draft, one more
reading and one more edit is enough. Occasioanlly, though, I wil send
the raw draft to somone whose opinion I respect, and ask for some
comments. That is usually dependant upon how much personal stuff I
have in a story. I do put some of myself in every story, but I need
someone else to look and see sometimes, someone who knows me, so that
I feel safe, I suppose.
Then I post and wait for the bad news. ;-)
bobbi jo
wrote:
>Hi Sigerson <hsig...@my-deja.com>!
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 03:36:42 GMT, you might have said:
><edit of Sigerson's story development method>
>
>the one the works is the one you should use.
Definite agreement.
>'The one that works' means a method that actually produces
>stories people want to read. We hear over and over again
>about the BHC and how this person or that has 50, 100, 150
>or more stories in some state of not complete on their hard
>drive. The method they are using might not be a good one.
Method? What method? I write. A lot. For many years. In
fragments. Pieces. Vignettes. Single ideas. Characters.
My mind works that way, going thirty directions at once.
>I'm currently writing two stories for fans as a tune up ...
><snip thru link to a cute story; I owe you an e-mail but the
><text is lost in the BH> ... While each story started out
>from a different idea, the process I use is the same.
>
>Once I have the idea I think about it for some period of time.
>This could be a day or a week and sometimes more than that.
>The main pieces fall together during this time and at a
>certain point I have to start writing. ...
Once an idea enters my mind, I _NEED_ to get it down on paper
(or hard drive, floppy, etc.). Otherwise, my ideas evaporate,
never to be seen again. Maybe it's old age. Ideas jump out
all the time. I wake up in the middle of a dream and rush to
the puter before I pee, even tho a full bladder woke me. I
see an old woman on the street, and end up with a description
on the back of a bill. I write all the time, a little scene
inspired by an event (Gold Cup), a character sketch inspired
by a photo, a visit to a store, or whatever.
>... I call this point the place where the story is forcing
>itself out.
Sounds familiar, but different, too. At some point, a full
story idea gets stuck in my mind and becomes a temporary
obsession, a form of insanity, when characters and scenes
from years of writing in tiny scraps start fitting together
like puzzle pieces. Once that happens, I search for all the
little scraps and start "real" (in my mind) writing.
And, once the full story line is in my mind, with characters
and a time frame and sequence, I find more inspiration in
everything around me.
>I used to develop a lot of the same documentation you describe
>in your post, but I no longer do that. I found that the story
>will start writing itself at a certain point and so all the
>preliminary work I do is generally a waste of time. Frequently
>this is a way to avoid starting to write ... <snip>
The story will write itself but only if I plot out the time
line and make my character sketches into real bio's and such.
For me, the story is there. The characters are there. My
function becomes stringing them together in a logical and
engaging stream of words, again, what I consider "real" writing
even tho I may have tens of thousands of words already written.
>I use the Word Outliner to develop my story outline. The title
>is the first line and then I use a single indent for the hook,
>1 or more scenes and a conclusion. Each ..<snip of technique>
I can never get to the title until after I finish. Oh, and I
despise Word. But, for me to string pieces together requires
a pretty detailed outline, a roadmap to get me from "once upon
a time" to "happily ever after" without mixing up my characters
and subplots, all of which already exist.
>Once I'm happy with the outline I open a new document in split
>screen so I can see both pages at the same time. <snip>
Yes, I love the split screen feature of my Word Perfect 4.2. I
still use it for all my writing. It's like fuzzy socks, so
comfortable when work needs to be done. I search for the right
snippet of an idea, call it into the bottom screen, then
cut'n'paste to the work on top, add or subtract words to make
it work in context, then move on.
>I usually start from the top and try to write in sequence. ...
Since my mind doesn't work in sequence, I rarely write that way
except to struggle with connecting the bits and pieces that I
have already written. Again, "real" writing (aka 'work').
>Recently I've been writing stories in the 4000-6000 word
>range. ...
Let's see, GWUA2 is already 33 chapters, about 5k words each,
and still not finished... but progressing.
>.. <snipped a bit> I start each writing session by editing
>what I did in the prior sessions. This serves several purposes.
>First, it helps me remember what the story is all about. Next,
>it's a warmup to get me started on the next part. Finally, it
>reduces the amount of editing I have to do before I send the
>story off to Denny Wheeler for the actual editing.
I avoid rereading at this stage. Otherwise, I begin rewriting
each time I read thru a portion of the story. When I tried
your technique, Katie, I ended up perpetually rewriting the
same scenes again and again. After a dozen rewrites, I often
ended up with something almost identical to what I wrote the
first time.
>When I've completed the rough draft, I go through it one or
>more times editing out things that don't make sense. I like
>to reduce the size of the story and throw things out during
>this phase. I try to find wasted words and problems I
>frequently introduce to the story. My editor is very good at
>this sort of thing, but I try to catch as much as I can up
>front so he can concentrate on the fine points.
Since Mike Ink found me, I self-edit exactly twice. After a
major portion is complete, I read thru it, cutting fluff and
fixing the most obvious errors.
>Once I have a proposed rough draft, I read the story aloud in
>monotone. I've found my eyes will play tricks on me and read
>what's not there or skip over things that shouldn't be there.
>For some reason this doesn't happen when I speak the story out
>loud. I use monotone because I don't want to add anything
>that won't be their for the reader. If I read it like a story
>telling session, the reading might overcome problems that will
>still be there when it is read another person.
Mirages are a problem only with things I write. Picking apart
someone else's work is easy. I do read portions aloud but my
stories tend to be a bit long to read all the way through.
Maybe that's my problem. Laziness?
>I let the story sit for a day and read it over again. I've
>always found that there are going to be little things that
>have to change during this process.
By the time I finish a story, months have passed since I began
stringing words together. When I finish, I make time to read
the whole story from start to finish, correcting obvious errors
and often rewriting sections as I go. That's my second self-
edit.
>When I've finished all that I send the story to Denny. Some-
>times he sends it back and says it's done. He can change my
>stories and doesn't have to inform me that he does. In some
>cases he questions story concepts and I do a rewrite. Since
>I'm not in love with any of it, I usually have no problem
>making the changes that he suggests. He may get the story back
>at this point for another go round or I could just send it out
>depending on what changed.
Mike's the best at finding the flaws -- in logic, sequence, and
consistency -- that I inject into my stories. He's also
incredibly patient and diplomatic because, since I'm always in
love with my characters and their predicaments, I hate to see a
single word changed. I'm learning to heed his advice because,
when I do so, the story is always better.
>Like everyone else, I run into writers block. For me this
>usually is a fear of the story. There are several reasons why
>this happens. I may not really know what I want to do with
>the story and stall until something comes to me. ...
My blocks seem to be different. I write, but it comes out all
wrong. I rewrite. Wrong again. I _KNOW_ the story, where it
is going, what the characters need to do, with whom, when, etc.
But my fingers just won't make it come out right. My biggest
fear is that the frustration will never end.
>... It's possible that I have other projects in mind and
>wander off to play with them instead of doing the hard work
>of finishing what I started. I feel overwhelmed by what I'm
>doing and hide from it.
My overall style makes that form of escapism all too easy. At
my best, I am working on several writing projects at the same
time. I'm also collecting more character studies, vignettes,
scenes, etc. I feel frustrated and look for an outlet, an
escape. My kinks make it easy, too. Trying out that new
swatter made from the old leather weightlifting belt can be
chalked up as research.
>.. <snip> .. There is the fear that the story isn't any
>good ... <snip> I am more critical of myself than anyone
>else can be.
Yes, you judge yourself too harshly. An MD+KM collaboration is
sure to produce something spectacular. I, too, fear that what
I'm writing is crap. Fortunately, when I do so, Mike tells
me (if I let him look at it before I post it).
><more snipped> I make a list of the stories and write them
>one at a time in order. If I'm stuck on a given story, I don't
>start in on another one. Instead I continue to write until
>I've written five pages. That is my minimum output for a given
>day. If the stuff turns out to be crap I throw it away. I've
>found that one paragraph, one page or one day later the tide
>turns and better stuff starts showing up. Eventually the
>story is finished and I do all the steps mentioned above.
I force myself to write. But I found my frustration limit last
Hallowe'en when I spent hundreds of hours on 'Grandma's House'
without producing a passable story. I throw a lot of dung in
the heap, my BH. Sometimes, with time to ferment and compost,
it comes out as something fine or at least as fertilizer to add
at the right time and place.
Actually, I lied. I don't force myself to write. I have to
force myself to get away from the keyboard and get on with real
life when I can't write anything worth the effort of reading.
Writing is a compulsion. But I have learned that sometimes,
when I'm stuck, I need to move on to something else, something
productive, totally different, rather than obsessing on a
project that's stalled. An hour, day, or week later, the
story that I was stuck on will still be there and something
will spark inspiration and a way to make it work.
>What about my hopper? ... <snip>
Glad it works for you... and that you have the time to
make it happen. I'm making steady progress and Mike has the
first 24 chapters of GWUA2. The next 8 will be zipped and
off to him by the small hours Monday. My RL obligations
have eased and the weather keeps us all indoors and me at
the keyboard. I'm a seasonal writer; I get to write more
when the weather is bad (too hot, too cold, too wet).
>... The reason I'm pressing so hard is that I want to get
>started on a story further down the list but won't break my
>own rules and just start working on it. In this way the
>"better" stuff acts as an incentive for me to get the rest
>of the work out.
Are you taking this _TOO_ seriously?
>Artist and Model. A key story in the Mary Kay series which I
>can't work out yet. I'm still in the thinking stage on this
>one and have been for a year or more.
Is it next?
>I'll Do Anything. ..<snip>
I'm imagining the parody. Anyone brave enough to get past the
codes will be in for a treat.
>Hecate Does Texas. This is a collaboration possibility with
>ecate. We have some general ideas but ran into technical
>roblems ... <snip>
Another for the best seller/downloaded list.
>Which Witch. This will be my Halloween story for next year.
I will not NOT _N-O-T_ try to get 'Grandma's House' ready for
next Hal... But wait, if I...
>Sequel to Slut's Story. I think I'll be doing a Revenge of the
>Slut but haven't decided when it will get done.
>
>Sequel to Karen:School for Sluts. The first part is the story
>I'm getting ready for editing tonight. The sequel will have
>something to do with her after she graduates from college.
I know way too much about sequels. It's hard to let a favortite
character die of neglect.
>Novel. I continue to plan on ending the Katie R series with a
>novel called Katie at 15. I don't feel like ending the series
>yet so this stays on the shelf.
>
>Novel. The Mary Kay stories are concept tests for a novel I
>plan on writing. I want to write a literate FF Rom story and
>just about have it worked out, but don't know when I can start
>it.
The time may be right for a mainstream publisher to take on a
good FF Rom story. I would pay real money for a bound edition
and even show up for the book signing at Borders.
>Non-Fiction. I'm working up a proposal now for a non-fiction
>work and expect to write it sometime this year. This will be
>published in the regular press and not on assm.
I've actually been published in 'regular' press. Got paid real
money, too. Once. A whole $25 (I think; long time ago) for an
article in Gurney's Gardening News.. which went bankrupt with
the issue in which my article appeared. A couple of fillers
were paid in copies. So much for my career as a professional
writer. But I wish you the best in your endeavor!
>I suspect that much of what is described above will be done
>within 12 months and when we arrive in 2002 my hopper will be
>no bigger than it is now. I suspect this has something to do
>with my style of work and the discipline I use when I write.
My hopper will be far larger than it is today... for the same
reasons. RL inteferes with my writing. Most of my creative
writing is in snippets that become stories only with effort
when I find the time. I do write every day. Obsessively.
But sometimes it's for only half an hour.
Current projects include:
Good Wife University Alumni. All eight sequels are outlined.
One down. One seriously in-the-works and nearing completion.
Some work done on the other six. All eight women will get to
happily ever after... eventually.
A speculative science fiction novel. There's even some sex
in it but not enough for ass*. It, too, is an obsession.
Growing the hopper full of ideas, scenes, characterizations,
descriptions, clippings, articles, etc. I will die with tens
of thousands of words written that never made it into a story
but without those words, I would never have any stories.
Even 'Decisions,' my contribution to the anniversary flash
festival, was an unused snippet intended for a character in
GWUA2.
>I would very much like to here from other people who would be
>willing to share their methods. And, I hope Rui Jorge could
>start a web page for the methods. ... <snip>
I'd like to see more, too. Both Katie & Sigerson describe
some similarities that I see in my style but everyone is
very different in the whole. Now, who will take on compiling
and editing our comments on writing methods?
I'll read some more stories.. as soon as I finish writing some
more stories.
bobbi jo
bobbi jo
bobbijo@operamail-dot-com
http://www.asstr.org/~bobbijo
Rui Jorge
In article <ubj47tkln49forfh6...@4ax.com>,
Katie McN <kati...@excite.com> wrote:
<snip>
> I would very much like to here from other people who would be willing
> to share their methods. And, I hope Rui Jorge could start a web page
> for the methods. We talked about this before when we had the
> discussion on categories and lost the opportunity to save some
> valuable material. I think this thread could provide a lot of useful
> information which authors could benefit from over time.
Hum. It's an interesting idea. Does anyone else think that we should
collect these posts about the methods and put them in a webpage?
--
Rui Jorge
rj...@my-deja.com
ICQ 16515722
ASS HAll of Fame - http://www.asstr.org/~ASSHoF/
All-Time Favourite Stories List - http://www.asstr.org/~Rui_Favorites/
Golden Clitorides Awards -
http://www.asstr.org/~Rui_Favorites/Clitorides/
Write Club - http://www.asstr.org/~Rui_Favorites/Write_Club/
Iron Writer - http://www.asstr.org/~Rui_Favorites/Iron/
Mr Slot
way to write. There are lots of different methods, some generally
accepted, others that are just plain out there. But no matter what
method a writer uses, as long as it works for them you will see that
they get results.
Towards the end of his post Bobbi Jo states that he hopes someone
takes all these messages and posts them together for a reference of
sorts. I think that would be a good idea. I would also like to add one
more suggestion.
Know when to give up and try something else. Not everyone can write
(like so many other things in life) so it's not a bad thing if you
just don't have the knack. The worst thing that can happen is to keep
going, getting more and more frustrated to the point where you hate
writing. Don't ever let it get that far. This doesn't mean you
shouldn't try. If it's something you want to have a go at then go for
it. And don't forget to try a different method if the first one isn';t
working.
You will know when it starts to work.
Trust me on this.
; )
Mr Slot
On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 06:44:02 -0500, bobbi jo
<bobbij...@operamail.com> chose to put into words the following :-
>On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 06:02:47 GMT, Katie McN <kati...@excite.com>
>wrote:
>>Hi Sigerson <hsig...@my-deja.com>!
>> On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 03:36:42 GMT, you might have said:
>><edit of Sigerson's story development method>
>>
>><snip of intro ending with>... and the rule seems to be that
>>the one the works is the one you should use.
>
>Definite agreement.
>
>>'The one that works' means a method that actually produces
>>stories people want to read. We hear over and over again
>>about the BHC and how this person or that has 50, 100, 150
>>or more stories in some state of not complete on their hard
>>drive. The method they are using might not be a good one.
>
>Method? What method? I write. A lot. For many years. In
>fragments. Pieces. Vignettes. Single ideas. Characters.
>My mind works that way, going thirty directions at once.
Writers never lie.
Uther Pendragon
I hope you have done something similar, 'cause I'm not going to
be quoting earlier posts.
The first thing to know is that "There are nine and sixty ways of
composing tribal lays, and Every Single One Of Them Is
Right." (To quote Kipling) Not, one might add, every single one
of them is right for *you*.
1 So, when you read here: "This is how I do a story," that means
that it is possible to do stories that way. It doesn't mean that
it is the only, or the best, way. It doesn't mean that it is the
way for you. But, if you don't like the method that you are
using, this method is available.
2 And these methods work for the particular person because of
how he *is*.
I use a method quite close to those of Sigerson and of Slot. I
don't write down my character descriptions. (And, if you think
that Uther's characters are insipid, stop here. Why do you care
what I do, if you don't think it works?) I certainly don't work
them out before hand.
I start with a scene, the first scene. Sometimes, I have
something towards which I'm working; but I have that in my
*mind*, I usually start writing with the first scene anyway.
I get the voices of my characters well in my mind. Then I let
them play out the scene and go from there.
*BUT*
When I do that, those characters develop consistently and in rich
interactions. The first sentence in the first story that I posted
to ASS was the thought of a character that his new bride was
spending too much time in the bathroom.
And, without writing them down, I can remember how my characters
interact. With Bob passionately poised at her portal, Jeanette
is tensed under him. Needing something to distract her, he tells
her that she forgot to pack her hiking boots. That determined
that their honeymoon would be spent hiking. Etc. etc.
What I *don't* remember is my characters physical descriptions
(beyond the minimal) and often their *NAMES*. Indeed, I often
write down the names on the top of the first page. When I need
another character, I make up another name and put it up there.
(I find the advice that you "Develop Characters first," puzzling.
A story is the interaction of characters; how do you develop
characters independent of the interaction? Sure, in a crime
story in which you see Smith planning to rob the bank and Jones
newly appointed to the head of the bank-robbery squad of the
police, they develop independently. But in most of our stories,
the characters either met long before the story begins or meet on
the first page.)
So, Uther writes some things down and not others. But he writes
down the parts that slip out of *his* head, not the parts that
every author should keep in a notebook.
3 Also, the *kind* of story influences the way we write. (Or,
alternatively, the way we write determines the kind of story we
can write.)
I had my method of writing down pat, even putting it in some
posts as "character-centered writing." Then I tried to do Science
fiction that way. It was a total disaster. The problem was that
starting from the beginning and working straight through doesn't
convey the background in the right spots.
(I should explain that I have a very narrow meaning of "SF." If
you can describe the background by pointing to another story, it
ain't what *I* mean by SF writing.)
Some books recommend that you sketch out the important places
(whether house plans or street plans) of your story. I didn't
have to do that; I had a clear picture of the houses in which my
stories take place. Then I got to "Heart Ball." I realized that
my clear picture was the clear picture of one houseplan.
(Apartments are different, and I'll swear that I've never lived
in that house.) Anyway, I noticed that Shannon, Steve, and every
kid for whom Shannon babysat, ALL lived in identical houses. I
went back and changed that.
It doesn't matter much that the senior Brennans and Jim Madison
of "Trust" live in almost identical houses. (Not quite identical,
the Brennans have a mansard roof and a much larger kitchen.) But
when all the scenes in a single novel play out in a large number
of identical houses, that's a problem. So I changed them.
Katie talks about her outlines, but she writes a particular kind
of story. She writes so tightly within a subgenre that the
highest levels of the outline are almost given by the subgenre.
A character-centerd story fights against an outline. Every once
in a while, the character goes off in some other direction. That
scraps the outline.
4 OTOH, character-centered stories require a willingness to take an
extensive rewrite if necessary. In my tie story, "Moving
Experience," I started from the woman's perspective. I soon
realized that I was calling for Mary to surprise John with a
strip tease. Surprises are best seen from the perspective of
the person being surprised; so I rewrote the firs quarter of the
story -- all I had thus far -- from a POV that alternated between
the man and the woman.
--
Uther Pendragon FAQs http://www.nyx.net/~anon584c
anon...@nyx.net fiqshn http://www.asstr.org/~Uther_Pendragon
"Uther is perfectly correct." Hecate
Frank Downey
Uther Pendragon wrote in message <98069325...@irys.nyx.net>...
>Well, I read the question and something like eight answers.
>
>The first thing to know is that "There are nine and sixty ways of
>composing tribal lays, and Every Single One Of Them Is
>Right." (To quote Kipling)
"There must be fifty ways to leave your lover"--Paul Simon <G>
>(I find the advice that you "Develop Characters first," puzzling.
>A story is the interaction of characters; how do you develop
>characters independent of the interaction? Sure, in a crime
>story in which you see Smith planning to rob the bank and Jones
>newly appointed to the head of the bank-robbery squad of the
>police, they develop independently. But in most of our stories,
>the characters either met long before the story begins or meet on
>the first page.)
I'm one of the ones that wrote that, so I'll explain myself a bit
as to what I meant. I haven't yet written a story where my
characters were born on page one. So, yes, even though
the story is the interaction of characters, the character is
established, at least in my mind, before the story starts.
If I don't do that, I have interaction between two cardboard
cutouts, if you see what I'm saying. If I don't know the two
people I'm writing about before I start writing about them,
then I can't write about them. I've got to have personalities
to work with, and that's done before the writing.
And, yeah, they develop during the story, but I, at least,
need a starting point.
Frank
Jeff Zephyr
wrote:
>Well, I read the question and something like eight answers.
>
>I hope you have done something similar, 'cause I'm not going to
>be quoting earlier posts.
>
>The first thing to know is that "There are nine and sixty ways of
>composing tribal lays, and Every Single One Of Them Is
>Right." (To quote Kipling) Not, one might add, every single one
>of them is right for *you*.
>
>1 So, when you read here: "This is how I do a story," that means
>that it is possible to do stories that way. It doesn't mean that
>it is the only, or the best, way. It doesn't mean that it is the
>way for you. But, if you don't like the method that you are
>using, this method is available.
>
>2 And these methods work for the particular person because of
>how he *is*.
Yes, those two points are the key ones. I and others mentioned this
detail, that how we do it is just how it works for us.
dennywS...@zipcon.net
held forth, saying:
>>There are songs which tell me, "I am part of (or the trigger for) a
>>good sex story." But I haven't that creative spark needed to go from
>>point A to point B. For a long time, I'd thought that about "Angel of
>>the Morning" so a few weeks back I sent Souvie an mp3 of the Merilee
>>Rush version of it. She wrote a very good story from that.
>>
>Oy yeah, sure. If you have thye idea for the story you can write it.
I *said* that I felt the song should lead to a good story. I DID NOT
say I had any idea of what the story was!!!!!!
>Plenty of us willing to help. Go on, admit it, you're such a
>tight-ass editor, you daren't let someone else edit something you've
>written! ;-)
mumble.
>
>Hecate
>"Nescit vox missa reverti" Horace
>heca...@excite.co.uk
>ICQ:59088833
Uther Pendragon
Me:
>>(I find the advice that you "Develop Characters first," puzzling.
> I'm one of the ones that wrote that, so I'll explain myself a bit
> as to what I meant. I haven't yet written a story where my
> characters were born on page one. So, yes, even though
> the story is the interaction of characters, the character is
> established, at least in my mind, before the story starts.
> If I don't do that, I have interaction between two cardboard
> cutouts, if you see what I'm saying. If I don't know the two
> people I'm writing about before I start writing about them,
> then I can't write about them. I've got to have personalities
> to work with, and that's done before the writing.
> And, yeah, they develop during the story, but I, at least,
> need a starting point.
There again, it is a matter of individual authors' habits and ways of
proceeding. When something happens, my character reacts; and that
reaction comes out of a past which I didn't know until then.
Uther Pendragon
> On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 13:49:32 GMT, Uther Pendragon <anon...@nyx.net>
> wrote:
>>
>>1 So, when you read here: "This is how I do a story," that means
>>that it is possible to do stories that way. It doesn't mean that
>>it is the only, or the best, way. It doesn't mean that it is the
>>way for you. But, if you don't like the method that you are
>>using, this method is available.
>>
>>2 And these methods work for the particular person because of
>>how he *is*.
> Yes, those two points are the key ones. I and others mentioned this
> detail, that how we do it is just how it works for us.
But the third one also matters. Sometimes you have to use different
methods for different sorts of stories.
dennywS...@zipcon.net
held forth, saying:
>Towards the end of his post Bobbi Jo states that he hopes someone
>takes all these messages...
Do you know something I don't know?
(I'd have said 'her' and 'she')
Frank Downey
Uther Pendragon wrote in message <98071298...@iris.nyx.net>...
>Frank Downey <Fab4...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>Me:
>>>(I find the advice that you "Develop Characters first," puzzling.
>
>> I'm one of the ones that wrote that, so I'll explain myself a bit
>> as to what I meant. I haven't yet written a story where my
>> characters were born on page one. So, yes, even though
>> the story is the interaction of characters, the character is
>> established, at least in my mind, before the story starts.
>> If I don't do that, I have interaction between two cardboard
>> cutouts, if you see what I'm saying. If I don't know the two
>> people I'm writing about before I start writing about them,
>> then I can't write about them. I've got to have personalities
>> to work with, and that's done before the writing.
>
>> And, yeah, they develop during the story, but I, at least,
>> need a starting point.
>
>There again, it is a matter of individual authors' habits and ways of
>proceeding. When something happens, my character reacts; and that
>reaction comes out of a past which I didn't know until then.
Ah. I see your point. And, you're right, it's up to individual
authors' habits, because there is *no* way I could write that
way. I can just see my characters in my mind's eye, yelling
at me, "Where's my motivation????" <G>
Whoever said this thread should be saved was right on the money.
There is some *good* stuff in here.
Frank
Conjugate
news:98069325...@irys.nyx.net...
>
> (I should explain that I have a very narrow meaning of "SF." If
> you can describe the background by pointing to another story, it
> ain't what *I* mean by SF writing.)
So, if I read a novel written by Author A set in a world build by
Author B, and Author B was writing SF, then Author A is not writing
SF but instead is just churning out cheap derivative drivel?
I somewhat agree. There are a few counterexamples that I am willing
to admit, but mostly, I agree with Rex Stout that an author ought to
"roll his own." (Ironically, I mostly see this remark of his quoted
in the preface to Nero Wolfe novels written by other authors after
Stout's death.)
Obligatory On-Topic Comment:
I mostly have some idea of what the characters are like in a story
when I start to write it. But I often write the story without a
great deal of "pre-thinking" and come up with ideas on the run. It
sometimes happens that a character has to change somewhat to fit a
new idea of the way the story should flow. More often, I try to keep
the character fixed as to general outlines, and have inspirations
about small modifications that will make the character work better
with some idea or another about the plot. I think while I'm typing,
very often, so I seem to be inbetween the two extremes. The
characters are mostly just "fine-tuned" during the writing process.
Of course, these comments are based on a total of 3 stories that have
been posted on ASSM. So any general truths should be taken with a
considerable grain of salt.
Conjugate
Mr Slot
If I'm wrong Bobbi, my sincerest apologies.
Mr Slot
On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:44:00 -0800, dennywS...@zipcon.net chose to
put into words the following :-
>On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:54:53 +1000, Mr Slot <mr_...@optusnet.com.au>
>held forth, saying:
>
>>Towards the end of his post Bobbi Jo states that he hopes someone
>>takes all these messages...
>
>Do you know something I don't know?
>(I'd have said 'her' and 'she')
>
>
>-denny-
>curmudgeon and editor
Writers never lie.
Jeff Zephyr
wrote:
>Jeff Zephyr <jeff...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 13:49:32 GMT, Uther Pendragon <anon...@nyx.net>
>> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>1 So, when you read here: "This is how I do a story," that means
>>>that it is possible to do stories that way. It doesn't mean that
>>>it is the only, or the best, way. It doesn't mean that it is the
>>>way for you. But, if you don't like the method that you are
>>>using, this method is available.
>>>
>>>2 And these methods work for the particular person because of
>>>how he *is*.
>
>> Yes, those two points are the key ones. I and others mentioned this
>> detail, that how we do it is just how it works for us.
>
>But the third one also matters. Sometimes you have to use different
>methods for different sorts of stories.
Cut too quick, I did ;-) Yes, I use different methods for different
things. Short pieces work best for me created as a whole, one pass
from imagination flowing into words. Editing comes after, but the
basic story is essentially done at once.
Katie McN
Frank said he did in the other branch of the thread. I could force
Lexi to agree. The main thing is we need to have this for new people I
would think so they can get some ideas about how different people do
things. There are a lot of ideas and I plan on trying some of them to
see if they help.
BTW did you see that the story your evil twin is in made number 4 and
number 54 in the ASDSTR Top 100 this week. I figure it got two places
because your evil twin is so hot. ;-)
On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:17:50 GMT, you might have said:
>Hi Katie,
>
>In article <ubj47tkln49forfh6...@4ax.com>,
> Katie McN <kati...@excite.com> wrote:
>
><snip>
>> I would very much like to here from other people who would be willing
>> to share their methods. And, I hope Rui Jorge could start a web page
>> for the methods. We talked about this before when we had the
>> discussion on categories and lost the opportunity to save some
>> valuable material. I think this thread could provide a lot of useful
>> information which authors could benefit from over time.
>
>Hum. It's an interesting idea. Does anyone else think that we should
>collect these posts about the methods and put them in a webpage?
--
It's me! Your pal,
Katie McN <kati...@excite.com>
Read all my stories at:
www.asstr.org/~Katie_McN
Frank Downey
Katie McN wrote in message ...
>number 54 in the ASDSTR Top 100 this week. I figure it got two places
>because your evil twin is so hot. ;-)
Oh, sure, it had nothing to do with the long-awaited moment
of reading about Katie McN getting banged by
who-knows-how-many *guys*. Yeah, that had nothing
to do with it.
<VBG>
Frank
El Gato
"Rui Jorge" <rj...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:9512lc$je6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> Hum. It's an interesting idea. Does anyone else think that we should
> collect these posts about the methods and put them in a webpage?
>
>
> --
> Rui Jorge
>
It could help out some individual that just needs that little bit of
inspiration to go ahead and put pen to paper (so to speak).
Here's my method (or madness, if you like).
I start with a character/plot combination.
I kind of 'see' the story in my imagination, and put the highlights down in
flowchart form.
I break the flowchart down into sections that make sense as chapters.
Next the 'blocks' or 'chapters' get fleshed out until they make sense to the
whole story.
(Sometimes a bare 'block' frustrates me for a while.<G>)
I try to decide where the story should 'flow', and use the chart to help
guide the story.
El Gato
Hecate
>Hi Katie,
>
>In article <ubj47tkln49forfh6...@4ax.com>,
> Katie McN <kati...@excite.com> wrote:
>
><snip>
>> I would very much like to here from other people who would be willing
>> to share their methods. And, I hope Rui Jorge could start a web page
>> for the methods. We talked about this before when we had the
>> discussion on categories and lost the opportunity to save some
>> valuable material. I think this thread could provide a lot of useful
>> information which authors could benefit from over time.
>
>Hum. It's an interesting idea. Does anyone else think that we should
>collect these posts about the methods and put them in a webpage?
Yes, definitely. Would be useful , especially for people who don't
know where to start. It should give them a range of ideas they can try
out.
dennywS...@zipcon.net
forth, saying:
>Hum. It's an interesting idea. Does anyone else think that we should
>collect these posts about the methods and put them in a webpage?
Yup. I'd had that thought when the thread started.
indys...@my-deja.com
Mr Slot <mr_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> >On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:54:53 +1000, Mr Slot <mr_...@optusnet.com.au>
> >
> They tell the truth from a different perspective.
Lately I've been starting from the last line and working backward. I
guess I really do have a unique perspective! ;-P
Lyndon Brown
GenericJoe
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:22:30 GMT, "Frank Downey"
> <Fab4...@prodigy.net> held forth, saying:
>>. And I *always* listen to music while I write, always, always, always.
> <Mode: editor>
> And I *always* listen to the Beatles while I write, always, always,
> always.
> </Mode>
It could be worse, he could listen to "They Might Be Giants" while he writes.
Oh, wait, that's what I do.
Well, that and Moby, Enigma, and Messiah (a techno group). Those are
the ones that actually get me into writer-mode, although most of the
time I have it all on "shuffle".
Although, now that I"ve found my copy (ok, my *wife's* copy) of "The
Garden" by Merril Bainbridge, I may write to that. It always gives me
such nice FF ideas..
GenericJoe
--
Bi Poly Pagan Switchy Writer Gamer Geek
Journal and Stories at
http://www.offthebeatenpath.org/genericjoe/
Butter vs. Margarine? I trust cows over Scientists.
GenericJoe
> 'The one that works' means a method that actually produces stories
> people want to read. We hear over and over again about the BHC and how
> this person or that has 50, 100, 150 or more stories in some state of
> not complete on their hard drive. The method they are using might not
> be a good one.
Like Jeff said, part of the reason I have such a large hopper is that
I've got a whole lot of documents with just a character name as title,
and a few paragraphs holding the defining moment of that character.
I consider their stories to be part of my hopper, even though what they
are, really, are character-studies.
Of course, I consider these characters, or their situations, interesting
enough to want to write a story about;)
Nonetheless, I tend to agree with you that my story-writing process
isn't the best, because it doesn't always generate completed stories --
even on the things I am actively working on. Katie, you once asked me
if I plotted my stories, and well, the answer is yes and no. I almost
always know where I want to go, either at the end, or "next". I sometimes
write a plot, and discover that the characters don't want to go there.
Overall, I'm *not* sure what works. Simple ideas get written, often, in
one sitting. 300 words did. My upcoming story got written in one day,
and then re-written from a new perspective the next day. But the stories
that I love, that have some *meat* to them, never seem to get finished.
And it's mainly stick-to-it-iveness where they are concerned, because
I keep allowing myself to be distracted by other project (not always
a story, but ususally). And, to be completely honest, my pattern from
the summer and before has changed now that Tam moved in: I don't feel
like I can cloister myself in my office for an evening or two or three,
since I"m working hard at maintaining two primary relationships.
Which just goes to show, that for me, the writing process isn't about the
writing itself, but finding the space and time to write. I used to have a
"writing ritual" but I've largely set that aside, and I need to resurrect
it. Especially if I'm going to be working on part two of Body Double:)
Father Ignatius
heca...@excite.co.uk wrote:
[...]
> Well, being the stubborn person I am, I keep nudging him every now and
> again. One day.....
<cough>How's _your_ big hopper doing? How's "Overlapping Backs" coming
along?
--
"Father Ignatius" <Father Ignatius at hotmail dart calm>
...and gradually, when he found that his sensitive organ was really
grateful for those grim favours, he conferred them with a better grace.
Henry James, _Portrait_of_a_Lady_
Katie McN
On 29 Jan 2001 22:47:34 GMT, you might have said:
>Given the number of people who have lamented the size of their hoppers, I
>rather think that the important thing is not how you start a story but how you
>*finish* it. Oftentimes I find that nothing works except forcing myself to sit
>down at the screen and peck away until something coherent emerges. Sometimes I
>get independent inspiration, but many times inspiration only arrives after I've
>spent a while writing aimlessly.
>
>I don't know what the correct ratio is of inspiration to perspiration, but I've
>always believed that the latter is a lot more important.
>
Let's see if I understand your thinking. Even though there are a lot
more fun things to think about and outline, I'm supposed to actually
sit in front of my computer and type stuff in until the story that I'm
supposed to finish starts to happen regardless of how much crap I have
to throw away prior to that moment?
Yep, seems right to me and so off to work on a story that's been in my
hopper for months. ;-)
Mr Slot
Are you saying we should be disciplined with our writing?
Nah, never happen. ; )
<spot the message>
When I was young I had a bike (like so many others). I enjoyed riding
my bike around, it gave me a new freedom that I had never experienced
before. I thought nothing would ever feel this good.
Then one day I saw someone else on a bike. They were riding along
without holding on to the handlebars. This looked very dangerous, yet
strangely enticing. I decided to give it a go.
I picked a flat piece of road and built up a head of steam. Once I was
going at a fair clip I stopped peddling, then took one hand off the
handlebars. I kept going, I didn't wobble or even look like crashing,
so I took my other hand off the bars. I sat up (it was an old
ten-speed), lifted my ams and felt the wind rush through my hair. I
had done it, I was riding my bike no-hands. It was incredbly
exhilarating, like I was laughing in the face of death.
I was in control, but out of control at the same time.
</spot the message>
Mr Slot
On 29 Jan 2001 22:47:34 GMT, micha...@aol.communism (MichaelD38)
chose to put into words the following :-
>Given the number of people who have lamented the size of their hoppers, I
>rather think that the important thing is not how you start a story but how you
>*finish* it. Oftentimes I find that nothing works except forcing myself to sit
>down at the screen and peck away until something coherent emerges. Sometimes I
>get independent inspiration, but many times inspiration only arrives after I've
>spent a while writing aimlessly.
>
>I don't know what the correct ratio is of inspiration to perspiration, but I've
>always believed that the latter is a lot more important.
>
>Michael
>
>~Story Archives~
>www.asstr.org/~MichaelD/
>www.asstr.org/~Richard_Bissell
>~Other Archives~
>www.storiesonline.net
>www.asstr.org/~BitBard/forray/michaeld/
Hecate
Nope, nothing to do with that at all. I liked the bits with me in
it.......
Hecate
>Given the number of people who have lamented the size of their hoppers, I
>rather think that the important thing is not how you start a story but how you
>*finish* it. Oftentimes I find that nothing works except forcing myself to sit
>down at the screen and peck away until something coherent emerges. Sometimes I
>get independent inspiration, but many times inspiration only arrives after I've
>spent a while writing aimlessly.
>
>I don't know what the correct ratio is of inspiration to perspiration, but I've
>always believed that the latter is a lot more important.
>
About 1:99 I reckon. And I hate perspiring <g> But I really shouldn't
be here, I should be working on this story on my desktop which Katie
may like to see. It's just easier to read assd <g>
Katie McN
On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 00:28:15 +0000, you might have said:
>On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 03:57:42 GMT, "Frank Downey"
><Fab4...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Katie McN wrote in message ...
>>>Hi Rui Jorge <rj...@my-deja.com>!
>> >BTW did you see that the story your evil twin is in made number 4 and
>>>number 54 in the ASDSTR Top 100 this week. I figure it got two places
>>>because your evil twin is so hot. ;-)
>>
>>Oh, sure, it had nothing to do with the long-awaited moment
>>of reading about Katie McN getting banged by
>>who-knows-how-many *guys*. Yeah, that had nothing
>>to do with it.
>>
>><VBG>
>>
>Nope, nothing to do with that at all. I liked the bits with me in
>it.......
>
I hope you likes the bits with you in it when the sequel is posted.
Someone has to break the record formerly held by Sister Mary Margaret
and Tanya the Aussie Librarian.
Jeff Zephyr
wrote:
>Given the number of people who have lamented the size of their hoppers, I
>rather think that the important thing is not how you start a story but how you
>*finish* it. Oftentimes I find that nothing works except forcing myself to sit
>down at the screen and peck away until something coherent emerges. Sometimes I
>get independent inspiration, but many times inspiration only arrives after I've
>spent a while writing aimlessly.
>
>I don't know what the correct ratio is of inspiration to perspiration, but I've
>always believed that the latter is a lot more important.
I'm not sure of the ratio. Writing, when it comes down to actually
writing the story, feels easy for me, even though it does produce
perspiration doing it. Getting started sometimes takes a bit, but
once going, I tend to just go for a while, hoping that nothing will
interrupt. Inspiration seems to be easy, though I spend a lot of time
thinking about what is going to happen in the story before I write
anything of it. Once set, I write steadily -- write til I drop ;-)
Then, it needs editing/2nd draft touchups. That part is work, and
it is my main downfall in finishing.
Sometimes, I do diverge into other stories, writing things other
than the main tale I'm trying to finish. Those might be aimless
writings, but usually they are the starting point for something which
will eventually be a "ready to finish" story.
Hmm, I think that the perspiration ratio is pretty high, if you
count time spent actually writing, as opposed to thinking.
Frank Downey
MichaelD38 wrote in message
<20010129174734...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>Given the number of people who have lamented the size of their hoppers, I
>rather think that the important thing is not how you start a story but how
you
>*finish* it. Oftentimes I find that nothing works except forcing myself to
sit
>down at the screen and peck away until something coherent emerges.
Sometimes I
>get independent inspiration, but many times inspiration only arrives after
I've
>spent a while writing aimlessly.
>
>I don't know what the correct ratio is of inspiration to perspiration, but
I've
>always believed that the latter is a lot more important.
As far as I'm concerned, the ratio of inspiration to perspiration is
directly
proportional to the quality of the inspiration.
In other words, the better the original idea, the less amount of
perspiration
needed.
One of the five best songs I've ever written took me a total of ten
minutes. I got an idea, picked up the guitar, and let my fingers do
the walking. I turned on my tape recorder, and played it through.
I played it back, and wrote down the first words that came to my
head. I taped it again, with the words. I played it back, and changed
one line. *Done*.
I think I'm too new to fiction writing for it to happen *quite* that
quickly, but "Alexandra" practically wrote itself.
The other thing I noticed with my songs is, not always but generally,
the ones that require the most perspiration are the ones I'm least
satisfied with. That's also when I'm most in danger of subconsciously
writing whatever Bruce Springsteen song I was listening to
yesterday <G>. When the inspiration lags and I have to go into
slog mode, that's when the cliches start coming out <G>.
I'm finding fiction different, because even short stories are
a longer form than a song. I realize that's part of why
I have a large hopper, because I'm dealing with longer
works than I'm used to. It also takes more *time*. which also
takes a lot of getting used to. I said that "Alexandra" practially
wrote itself, but it still took a total of about six hours of writing
time from beginning to end. If a song ever took me six hours,
I'd Townsend my guitar. I can write an *album* in six hours <G>.
But, so far, my gut feeling is true--"Alexandra" was the easiest
to write, and it's the story that I am by far the most
satisfied with. Even with the novel--the chapters that come
the quickest I like the best.
Overt application of perspiration just makes everything
slimy and sticky <VBG>
Frank
dennywS...@zipcon.net
<Fab4...@prodigy.net> held forth, saying:
>But, so far, my gut feeling is true--"Alexandra" was the easiest
>to write, and it's the story that I am by far the most
>satisfied with. Even with the novel--the chapters that come
>the quickest I like the best.
Hm. I think Frank D. would enjoy Write Club.
Uther Pendragon
Frank Downey <Fab4...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> Uther Pendragon wrote in message <98071298...@iris.nyx.net>...
>>Frank Downey <Fab4...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>Me:
>>>>(I find the advice that you "Develop Characters first," puzzling.
>>> I'm one of the ones that wrote that, so I'll explain myself a bit
>>> as to what I meant.
>>> the character is
>>> established, at least in my mind, before the story starts.
>>> If I don't do that, I have interaction between two cardboard
>>> cutouts, if you see what I'm saying.
>>> If I don't know the two
>>> people I'm writing about before I start writing about them,
>>> then I can't write about them. I've got to have personalities
>>> to work with, and that's done before the writing.
>>
>>There again, it is a matter of individual authors' habits and ways of
>>proceeding. When something happens, my character reacts; and that
>>reaction comes out of a past which I didn't know until then.
> Ah. I see your point. And, you're right, it's up to individual
> authors' habits, because there is *no* way I could write that
> way. I can just see my characters in my mind's eye, yelling
> at me, "Where's my motivation????" <G>
And here, we start to get useful.
If you think backwards, if your natural question when you see
somebody act oddly is to ask, "why did he do that?" then you use the Uther
method.
And if your question is: "What do they do next," then you use the Downey
method.
- Uther
Who has backstories on almost all of his stories in his head.
Frank Downey
Uther Pendragon wrote in message <98088175...@iris.nyx.net>...
>And here, we start to get useful.
>
>If you think backwards, if your natural question when you see
>somebody act oddly is to ask, "why did he do that?" then you use the Uther
>method.
>And if your question is: "What do they do next," then you use the Downey
>method.
Perfect!
Frank
Hecate
wrote:
>Hi Hecate <heca...@excite.co.uk>!
>
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 00:28:15 +0000, you might have said:
>
>>On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 03:57:42 GMT, "Frank Downey"
>><Fab4...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Katie McN wrote in message ...
>>>>Hi Rui Jorge <rj...@my-deja.com>!
>>> >BTW did you see that the story your evil twin is in made number 4 and
>>>>number 54 in the ASDSTR Top 100 this week. I figure it got two places
>>>>because your evil twin is so hot. ;-)
>>>
>>>Oh, sure, it had nothing to do with the long-awaited moment
>>>of reading about Katie McN getting banged by
>>>who-knows-how-many *guys*. Yeah, that had nothing
>>>to do with it.
>>>
>>><VBG>
>>>
>>Nope, nothing to do with that at all. I liked the bits with me in
>>it.......
>>
>I hope you likes the bits with you in it when the sequel is posted.
>Someone has to break the record formerly held by Sister Mary Margaret
>and Tanya the Aussie Librarian.
Oooh, you bitch! You wouldn't??!! ;-)
Mr Slot
chose to put into words the following :-
>>I hope you likes the bits with you in it when the sequel is posted.
>>Someone has to break the record formerly held by Sister Mary Margaret
>>and Tanya the Aussie Librarian.
>
>Oooh, you bitch! You wouldn't??!! ;-)
Fight!! Fight!!
; )
Mr Slot
(Grabbing the beer, popcorn and a good seat)
Virtual Adept
"Mr Slot" <mr_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:fhvb7tkr2r4n7ke70...@4ax.com...
> Oh my goodness Michael!!
>
> Are you saying we should be disciplined with our writing?
>
> Nah, never happen. ; )
>
> <spot the message>
> When I was young I had a bike (like so many others). I enjoyed riding
> my bike around, it gave me a new freedom that I had never experienced
> before. I thought nothing would ever feel this good.
>
> Then one day I saw someone else on a bike. They were riding along
> without holding on to the handlebars. This looked very dangerous, yet
> strangely enticing. I decided to give it a go.
>
> I picked a flat piece of road and built up a head of steam. Once I was
> going at a fair clip I stopped peddling, then took one hand off the
> handlebars. I kept going, I didn't wobble or even look like crashing,
> so I took my other hand off the bars. I sat up (it was an old
> ten-speed), lifted my ams and felt the wind rush through my hair. I
> had done it, I was riding my bike no-hands. It was incredbly
> exhilarating, like I was laughing in the face of death.
>
> I was in control, but out of control at the same time.
> </spot the message>
do it? Considering what it's a reply to, I don't think I'm getting quite
the right meaning...
<tangent>
A better trick is to *pedal* with no hands. Takes much finer balance than
coasting -- OTOH, if you twitch, it can be quite painful. *BG* Turning is
even harder, but it *can* be done -- on a *VERY* good day. I assume; it's
been a while since I tried. Learned a lesson though: don't try to bunny-hop
on a mountain bike. Broke the front fork that way, and never got around to
replacing it.
</tangent>
--
The Apprentice
"Nothing in life will ever come that easy
Doesn't mean it has to be that hard
I know you will find out who you are"
- Dexter Freebish
dennywS...@zipcon.net
>>I hope you likes the bits with you in it when the sequel is posted.
>>Someone has to break the record formerly held by Sister Mary Margaret
>>and Tanya the Aussie Librarian.
>
>Oooh, you bitch! You wouldn't??!! ;-)
(the following is NOT based on any knowledge unavailable to regular
readers of ASSD)
Yes, she would. And you know she'll enjoy it, too.
Rui Jorge
In article <dqo97tcd91i3h5kah...@4ax.com>,
Katie McN <kati...@excite.com> wrote:
> Hi Rui Jorge <rj...@my-deja.com>!
>
> Frank said he did in the other branch of the thread. I could force
> Lexi to agree. The main thing is we need to have this for new people I
> would think so they can get some ideas about how different people do
> things. There are a lot of ideas and I plan on trying some of them to
> see if they help.
Ok. I'll collect the relevant posts, then I'll ask permission to use
them on the page and then I'll make the page. This may take a few days.
Yup, I'm feeling a bit lazy. :0)
Hum. I have to ask Rey if we can add this to the ASS's FAQ's section at
ASSTR. Seems the best place to put it.
>
> BTW did you see that the story your evil twin is in made number 4 and
> number 54 in the ASDSTR Top 100 this week. I figure it got two places
> because your evil twin is so hot. ;-)
Nah! People just want to see what nasty things that evil woman (Hecate)
made poor naive Katie do. <g>
--
Rui Jorge
rj...@my-deja.com
ICQ 16515722
ASS HAll of Fame - http://www.asstr.org/~ASSHoF/
All-Time Favourite Stories List - http://www.asstr.org/~Rui_Favorites/
Golden Clitorides Awards -
http://www.asstr.org/~Rui_Favorites/Clitorides/
Write Club - http://www.asstr.org/~Rui_Favorites/Write_Club/
Iron Writer - http://www.asstr.org/~Rui_Favorites/Iron/
Katie McN
>Hi Katie,
>
>In article <dqo97tcd91i3h5kah...@4ax.com>,
> Katie McN <kati...@excite.com> wrote:
>> Hi Rui Jorge <rj...@my-deja.com>!
>>
>> Frank said he did in the other branch of the thread. I could force
>> Lexi to agree. The main thing is we need to have this for new people I
>> would think so they can get some ideas about how different people do
>> things. There are a lot of ideas and I plan on trying some of them to
>> see if they help.
>
>Ok. I'll collect the relevant posts, then I'll ask permission to use
>them on the page and then I'll make the page. This may take a few days.
>Yup, I'm feeling a bit lazy. :0)
>
You have my permission and I hope everyone else will join in since
this is good information for new people (and me too since I learned a
few things along the way which I'm trying on my latest story).
>Hum. I have to ask Rey if we can add this to the ASS's FAQ's section at
>ASSTR. Seems the best place to put it.
>
I agree with you and maybe you guys might consider a section that can
expand when we talk about other aspects of writing.
>>
>> BTW did you see that the story your evil twin is in made number 4 and
>> number 54 in the ASDSTR Top 100 this week. I figure it got two places
>> because your evil twin is so hot. ;-)
>
>Nah! People just want to see what nasty things that evil woman (Hecate)
>made poor naive Katie do. <g>
I'm glad you finally realize that I'm actually an innocent naive
person. Keep the thought until the sequel is read.
dennywS...@zipcon.net
forth, saying:
>Yup, I'm feeling a bit lazy. :0)
Who are *YOU* and where is Rui Jorge?
Stasya T. Canine
>Ok. I'll collect the relevant posts, then I'll ask permission to use
>them on the page and then I'll make the page. This may take a few days.
>Yup, I'm feeling a bit lazy. :0)
>
>Hum. I have to ask Rey if we can add this to the ASS's FAQ's section at
>ASSTR. Seems the best place to put it.
>
What? Hang my opinions on writing out there for all to see??
Of *course* you have my permission to add my posts to the page. <g>
---
http://storiesonline.net/Stasya_T_Canine
Hosted by: http://storiesonline.net (Thanks Lazeez!)
sta...@despammed.surfree.com
Tails of Rabelaisia - http://members.theglobe.com/Nikkolai
Jeff Zephyr
<sta...@despammed.counsellor.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:27:22 GMT, Rui Jorge <rj...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>>Ok. I'll collect the relevant posts, then I'll ask permission to use
>>them on the page and then I'll make the page. This may take a few days.
>>Yup, I'm feeling a bit lazy. :0)
>>
>>Hum. I have to ask Rey if we can add this to the ASS's FAQ's section at
>>ASSTR. Seems the best place to put it.
>>
>
>What? Hang my opinions on writing out there for all to see??
>
>Of *course* you have my permission to add my posts to the page. <g>
Mine too, of course. I think I said that a web site thing would be
a good idea.
We might collect more as we go along, too.
Hecate
>Hi Katie,
>
>In article <dqo97tcd91i3h5kah...@4ax.com>,
> Katie McN <kati...@excite.com> wrote:
>> Hi Rui Jorge <rj...@my-deja.com>!
>>
>> Frank said he did in the other branch of the thread. I could force
>> Lexi to agree. The main thing is we need to have this for new people I
>> would think so they can get some ideas about how different people do
>> things. There are a lot of ideas and I plan on trying some of them to
>> see if they help.
>
>Ok. I'll collect the relevant posts, then I'll ask permission to use
>them on the page and then I'll make the page. This may take a few days.
>Yup, I'm feeling a bit lazy. :0)
>
Yopu've got my permission.
Hecate
wrote:
>
>I'm glad you finally realize that I'm actually an innocent naive
>person. Keep the thought until the sequel is read.
Oh yeah, right.
Anyway, I suppose I'd better mention that when the bet was made over
the first story, Katie was good enough to say that she'd write it even
if she won. (You won't believe what I had to do to get here to say
that!). Anyway, once she had, I felt a bit guilty, so... I'm in the
process of writing the reverse story. Yep Katie top and Hecate
bottom. And then of course, you'll be getting Katie's revenge story
too. Kinda two for the price of one. Poor Hecate...
Frank Downey
Stasya T. Canine wrote in message
<3d0h7tkhis2loch8o...@4ax.com>...
>On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:27:22 GMT, Rui Jorge <rj...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>>Ok. I'll collect the relevant posts, then I'll ask permission to use
>>them on the page and then I'll make the page. This may take a few days.
>>Yup, I'm feeling a bit lazy. :0)
>>
>>Hum. I have to ask Rey if we can add this to the ASS's FAQ's section at
>>ASSTR. Seems the best place to put it.
>>
>
>What? Hang my opinions on writing out there for all to see??
>
>Of *course* you have my permission to add my posts to the page. <g>
I'm in like Flynn.
Frank
dennywS...@zipcon.net
held forth, saying:
>. Yep Katie top and Hecate
>bottom. And then of course, you'll be getting Katie's revenge story
>too. Kinda two for the price of one. Poor Hecate...
Hrm. I detect a blatant ploy. Won't work. We all know you'll enjoy
being 'poor, put-upon, Hecate.' <g>
Rui Jorge
In article <gvci7t0rcst9urcon...@4ax.com>,
dennywS...@zipcon.net wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 01:44:49 +0000, Hecate <heca...@excite.co.uk>
> held forth, saying:
>
> >. Yep Katie top and Hecate
> >bottom. And then of course, you'll be getting Katie's revenge story
> >too. Kinda two for the price of one. Poor Hecate...
>
> Hrm. I detect a blatant ploy. Won't work. We all know you'll enjoy
> being 'poor, put-upon, Hecate.' <g>
Hehehe. Yup. She will love it! <g>
Rui Jorge
In article <158g7tgii81qmlgn5...@4ax.com>,
Katie McN <kati...@excite.com> wrote:
<snip>
> You have my permission and I hope everyone else will join in since
> this is good information for new people (and me too since I learned a
> few things along the way which I'm trying on my latest story).
A big thanks to you and to all that have already given their
permission. :0)
>
> >Hum. I have to ask Rey if we can add this to the ASS's FAQ's section
at
> >ASSTR. Seems the best place to put it.
> >
> I agree with you and maybe you guys might consider a section that can
> expand when we talk about other aspects of writing.
Um. It's a good idea. We could add the posts from other interesting
writing related threads to it. Does anyone have a good name for
it? 'Writers Corner'? 'Writers Tips'?
<snip>
> I'm glad you finally realize that I'm actually an innocent naive
> person. Keep the thought until the sequel is read.
LOL! I will. :0)
Stasya T. Canine
>
>Um. It's a good idea. We could add the posts from other interesting
>writing related threads to it. Does anyone have a good name for
>it? 'Writers Corner'? 'Writers Tips'?
>
How about 'ASS Bytes'?
Katie McN
On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:59:30 GMT, you might have said:
>On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:22:08 GMT, Rui Jorge <rj...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Um. It's a good idea. We could add the posts from other interesting
>>writing related threads to it. Does anyone have a good name for
>>it? 'Writers Corner'? 'Writers Tips'?
>>
>
>How about 'ASS Bytes'?
>
><g>
Yes, way cool and I think we should go with it!
Joyce Melton
>Do any of you write this way? I can't believe that I am the
>only one. Based on my output of posted stories this does
>not appear to be an efficient way of writing.
I've done it in a similar way. "My Juno" and "ekiN" were essentially
driven from just such scene descriptions done in my head. When I went
to write them down they turned into stories.
Some of my stories came from the concept of a title, like "Every
Lollipop Loves A Licking" and "All Trespassers Will Be Eaten" and
"Pussycats for the Blind." I just sat down to explore the implications
of the title and a story happened.
Others came out of incidents in my own past, like "Ms Barefoot" and
"Dirty and Dangerous" and "Private Weather" and "Kissing the Rat" all
of which are at least semi-autobiographical.
Some other stories came out of trying out writing something like some
things I had seen others write. "Mercedes" and "Miracle Titty-Gro" for
example.
Others are poems that got away from me, "The Girl with the Goodbye
Eyes" and "That Kind" and "Christmas, Adam".
"Ginger-with-a-D" came out of hearing the main character's voice in my
head. I had to try to write something with someone who sounded like
that, a brainy, self-aware, airhead. :) The story went in ways totally
unexpected for me, it happened as I wrote it.
No matter where I start from, that is the way I like to write.
Spontaneously, letting the characters take the story where they want
it to go. It's much easier than writing toward a defined goal.
"Ginger-with-a-D" was easier to write than "Every Lollipop..." for
instance where I had to write toward the punchline.
The problem with that kind of spontaneity is that sometimes you end up
with the characters wanting to tell a much longer story than you were
prepared to write. I've never finished "Imagine My Surprise" for that
very reason. Frank Love and Nona Glass just have too much story in
them. Or you end up with a story that you have to paste an ending
onto, like "My Juno." Tim wants a whole novel to explore his
preference for tall women, maybe someday I'll give him one.
I polish stories after I write them. I go back over the story and add
bits and describe things I hadn't described. Then I send it to a few
editors and listen to what they have to say. Then I shorten the story,
cutting parts out and making it tighter. "Kissing the Rat" is an
extreme example of this, the orginal story was over 3000 words, I got
it down to less than 500 words for the anniversary flash.
I'm not working on anything now. The last thing I wrote was a bit for
Mat's Erotic Art Gallery. Mat had asked me for something several times
and I finally just got a blank screen and started writing. Once again,
somewhat autobiographical and not really a story but I wrote the whole
thing in a matter of an hour or two.
Hecate has asked me for a piece with a supplied title. I dunno. I have
an idea but I haven't put the blank screen in front of me yet. That's
when everything happens, when the white screen or paper gets all messy
with little squiggles and the characters start to come alive.
See, there's this private club that hires pretty young waitresses...
Joyce
Hecate
>Hecate has asked me for a piece with a supplied title. I dunno. I have
>an idea but I haven't put the blank screen in front of me yet. That's
>when everything happens, when the white screen or paper gets all messy
>with little squiggles and the characters start to come alive.
>
>See, there's this private club that hires pretty young waitresses...
>
I hope that means you're going to be saying yes..... ;-)
Rui Jorge
In article <t9fj7tknonnivid5k...@4ax.com>,
Katie McN <kati...@excite.com> wrote:
> Hi Stasya T. Canine <sta...@despammed.counsellor.com>!
>
> On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:59:30 GMT, you might have said:
>
> >On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:22:08 GMT, Rui Jorge <rj...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>Um. It's a good idea. We could add the posts from other interesting
> >>writing related threads to it. Does anyone have a good name for
> >>it? 'Writers Corner'? 'Writers Tips'?
> >>
> >
> >How about 'ASS Bytes'?
> >
> ><g>
LOL! I like it! <g>
>
> Yes, way cool and I think we should go with it!
Yup. I'm gonna use it. :0)
Uther Pendragon
> On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:27:22 GMT, Rui Jorge <rj...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>>Ok. I'll collect the relevant posts, then I'll ask permission to use
>>them on the page and then I'll make the page. This may take a few days.
>>Yup, I'm feeling a bit lazy. :0)
>>
> You've got my permission.
And mine.