virus, what are the risks?
Ironclaw
what could a virus potentially do? Could it resist a full purge
of the calculator? Could it rewrite any information in such a way to make
the calc not function at all?
just a curious mind
-iron
______________________________________________________________________________
-
Life begins:...... ~\\
....When the fun ends.... \\\\
'\\\\\
| |\\\\\
\ /; \\\\\|__.--~~\
'|~--.._ //' _--~ /
'//////\ \\/;' /~ ////// _-~~~~'
~/////\~\')' ('-//////-//
'~' | //////(((-)
;'_\'\ /////"
/~/ '" "' _///"
'\/' ~
Ironclaw : Hult...@river.it.gvsu.edu
______________________________________________________________________________
sam wood
Ironclaw (hult...@river.it.gvsu.edu) wrote:
: what could a virus potentially do? Could it resist a full purge
: the calc not function at all?
: just a curious mind
: -iron
resist a purge> sure, Just do a fake purge, There is a program that
rewrites the full purge to emulate a purge, then get the files back with
a few keystrokes. All the virus would need to do is intercept the purge
and purge everything but itself. As for the calc not functioning, this
could be fixed with a full reset and purge (i.e. push the button behind
one of the rubber feet of the calc. I'm fairly sure nothing can resist that.)
sam
--
Check out my home page: http://www.umr.edu/~sjw O-
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| samuel wood | "What's so unpleasant about being |
| University of Missouri | drunk?" |
| at Rolla | "Go ask a glass of water." |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
A Suehiro
Gabriel B. Gonzalez wrote:
>
> On Tue, 7 May 1996 23:17:30 -0400, Ironclaw
> <hult...@river.it.gvsu.edu> wrote:
>
> > what could a virus potentially do? Could it resist a full purge
> >of the calculator? Could it rewrite any information in such a way to make
> >the calc not function at all?
>
> annoying, like erase variables (objects) randomly? That would really
> suck because one usually depends on their calculator working each and
> every time.
>
------
Think how much is would suck if NASA really does use HP48GXs on the
shuttle.
Pilot: Ahhhh...captain I think were stuck out here.
Captain: Why?
Pilot: I think my HP has a virus, the Reentry Navigation Program just
deleted itself.
Captain: Well just reset the calc and redownload the program.
Pilot: I've never been able to get Kermit to work on the PC...
:)
Just kidding, but you get the picture.
-Alan-
Doug Cannon
In article <4mrdbi$j...@news.service.uci.edu>, gab...@uci.edu (Gabriel B. Gonzalez) says:
>
>On Tue, 7 May 1996 23:17:30 -0400, Ironclaw
><hult...@river.it.gvsu.edu> wrote:
>
>> what could a virus potentially do? Could it resist a full purge
>>of the calculator? Could it rewrite any information in such a way to make
>>the calc not function at all?
>
>How about just annoy the heck out of you? Maybe do something REALLY
>annoying, like erase variables (objects) randomly? That would really
>suck because one usually depends on their calculator working each and
>every time.
>
There have been a few different types of viruses for the HP48.
Because a virus can't infect other HP48s unless users swap files, they
have been pretty harmless.
One of the more clever viruses would attach itself to the end of a
User-RPL program. When that User-RPL program executed, it would
then execute the virus code just before finishing. The virus code
would find out where in RAM it was executing from, then scan the
directory structure and copy itself from RAM and attach itself
to one or two more User-RPL programs. That's all it did.
Another version I thought was really cool. It wasn't really written
as a virus, because it didn't spread to other programs (but
it could have...) Once you executed it, every now and then it would
make a white noise sound (like static) and fuzz the HP48 screen for
a second. What it would look like is that you are working along on
your HP48 normally and then suddenly the screen would display random
fuzz and make the static sound. It would only happen for half a second,
then you'd be back to normal as if nothing had happened. It was really
cool.
Viruses are a very interesting and fascinating concept.
However, People who write viruses with the intention that they spread
to other users are a pathetic type. I don't suppose I need to tell
you all that, though...
Doug Cannon
Dave Arnett
A Suehiro <asue...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>------
>Think how much is would suck if NASA really does use HP48GXs on the
>shuttle.
>
>Pilot: Ahhhh...captain I think were stuck out here.
>Captain: Why?
>Pilot: I think my HP has a virus, the Reentry Navigation Program just
>deleted itself.
>Captain: Well just reset the calc and redownload the program.
>Pilot: I've never been able to get Kermit to work on the PC...
>
>:)
>
>Just kidding, but you get the picture.
>
>-Alan-
I thought that little incident was still classified.
Dave.
--------
I don't telnet from MIR when I post here.
John H Meyers
Did you not hear about the HP48 virus which installs itself
into the batteries, then re-infects every library at power ON?
If you try to get rid of it by reversing the batteries,
but they explode and spill into the calc, then your HP48
is done for, just like in "The Andromeda Strain" -- check it out!
Now, what does Dave Arnett have to say about THAT?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I tried to join a Humor newsgroup, but I couldn't find the FAQ or TFM"
Olivier Saudan
A friend of mine once wrote an experimental virus in user-RPL (with a
little bit of SYSEVALs). It could infect any object in the HP (except
libraries), by puting it in a program:
Before infection:
Object
After:
<< VirusCraps Object EVAL >>
So when you recalled an object (a list for example), the virus was
executed. It infected objects whenever it was launched. I think there
was a null char somewhere so that it wasn't possible to edit the objects
anymore.
With this kind of infections, when you send an infected object to
another HP, the virus is transmitted with it, so that it can spread on
other HPs. There's no need to trap IR transmissions or things like this,
like it has been proposed before.
The virus could infect objects which were already infected, so it was
growing more and more, and soon the calc went ot of memory. RESET and
ON-A-F didn't do anything, so the guy had to pull the batteries out.
The virus was slow, so that it didn't take long to notice that something
was going wrong.
Just to say that it's really not difficult to write a virus for the
HP (2c worth).
Olivier Saudan
P.S: Please forgive my bad english.
Dave Arnett
jhme...@miu.edu (John H Meyers) wrote:
>Did you not hear about the HP48 virus which installs itself
>into the batteries, then re-infects every library at power ON?
>
>If you try to get rid of it by reversing the batteries,
>but they explode and spill into the calc, then your HP48
>is done for, just like in "The Andromeda Strain" -- check it out!
>
>Now, what does Dave Arnett have to say about THAT?
Isn't it a good thing HP recommends that you replace all 3
batteries with fresh, new cells? This way, batteries cannot
cross-infect each other.
When you come out of COMA mode, the batteries are
automatically checked for installed viruses and cleansed if
any are found. Except NiCd batteries, because they have
different battery memory parameters, as most people know.
A number of battery viruses have been collected and catgorized.
The is a real good homepage on the topic at:
http://www.getaclue.its.humor.com/~getreal.html
Good Day!
Dave.
------
I don't speak for Ray-O-Vac when I post here.
Mark Wilson
Dave Arnett wrote:
> A number of battery viruses have been collected and catgorized.
> The is a real good homepage on the topic at:
>
> http://www.getaclue.its.humor.com/~getreal.html
>
> Good Day!
> Dave.
> ------
> I don't speak for Ray-O-Vac when I post here.
Gee, Dave, I couldn't get that URL to come up. Is it possible it has the
HTML virus? You know, the one where you keep clicking on an adress, and
your IQ drops by twenty points a pop?
My mind is slipping, Dave....>;)
--
Mark Wilson
"El Diablo sabe mas por viejo que por Diablo."
John H Meyers
==============================================================================
A L L H P B A T T E R Y V I R U S E S N O W C O N Q U E R E D ! ! !
==============================================================================
I have it on very good authority from HP in Corvallis
( reputed to have been verified even by BillW and JimD )
that the "Diode Protection Circuit" described by Mr. Arnett
(see Battery Reversal), which already came FREE and pre-installed
inside the sealed case of most HP48's, will STOP ALL THESE VIRUSES COLD!
Therefore, if you have ROM version "A" thru "R" (better check it!),
then YOUR CALC IS ABSOLUTELY PROTECTED against the "Battery Virus(es)"
discussed previously in this newsgroup, and there is nothing further
that you need do about it.
> Will opening your sealed case damage the virus protection circuit?
>> No, it will only void the warranty.
> But wasn't there a rumor about a ROM virus in rev's "I" and "Q" ?
>> NO! All those units were sealed in concrete and sunk off the
Oregon coastline; they absolutely will not surface again
for thousands of years... (just like rev "F")
Peter Teichman
Mark Wilson wrote:
>
> Dave Arnett wrote:
>
> > A number of battery viruses have been collected and catgorized.
> > The is a real good homepage on the topic at:
> >
> > http://www.getaclue.its.humor.com/~getreal.html
> >
> > Good Day!
> > Dave.
> > ------
> > I don't speak for Ray-O-Vac when I post here.
>
> Gee, Dave, I couldn't get that URL to come up. Is it possible it has > the HTML virus? You know, the one where you keep clicking on an
> adress, and your IQ drops by twenty points a pop?
No, no, Mark! I checked the URL out, and it doesn't exist at all! That,
combined with the obvious reference to that "humor" thing can only lead
me to one conclusion: Dave Arnett himself must be infected! He would
*never* lead us astray in such a fashion if he was in his right mind.
I can only hope that he doesn't have one of those Usenet viruses, the
kind that infect you when you read a contaminated posting.. I think the
only rational thing we can do is to quarantine all of Dave's posts for
further study, as well as posts from anyone who has read them, of
course..
Pete
------
I don't speak for Dave Arnett when I post here.
barrym
Don't you think it's naive to think that the virus protection
circuitry devised in the early days of the 48's will stand up
the such recent battery viruses as are found in Renewals and
Lithiums and Hi-cap nicads? The only real protection is to not
install batteries in the 48 at all. I realize it's somewhat less
useful this way but it's much safer.
Barry
John H Meyers (jhme...@miu.edu) wrote:
: ==============================================================================
Dave Arnett
bar...@starbase.neosoft.com (barrym) wrote:
>Don't you think it's naive to think that the virus protection
>circuitry devised in the early days of the 48's will stand up
>the such recent battery viruses as are found in Renewals and
>Lithiums and Hi-cap nicads? The only real protection is to not
>install batteries in the 48 at all. I realize it's somewhat less
>useful this way but it's much safer.
>
>Barry
>
I'm afraid Barry has missed some of the background material on
clasified HP calculator development programs, involving the CIA,
FBI, NASA, and Burger King. Either that, or Barry has forgotten
both what was said and what was not said. When dealing with
declassified US Government information, you must always pay
careful attention to exactly what is not said, and the tone of
voice with which it is not spoken.
Since I'm not going to go back and unsay all of that again, let
me say only this: Who do you think ORIGINALLY developed such
"new" cells as Renewal, Lithium, and Hi-cap Nicad; and when?
Dave.
------
I _do_ notspeak for HP when I post here.
John H Meyers
Has anyone ever heard of this virus appearing when only genuine
original equipment HP Batteries have been used? Of course not!
To protect the integrity of your wise investment in such a fine
instrument, it would be foolish to use anything but genuine HP
replacement parts and supplies.
However, I have heard that a mixture of three parts Lamp Black
to one part Shoe Polish makes a fine laser printer toner...
A Suehiro
====================================================
WARNING: VIRUS IS STILL UNSTOPABLE !!!
====================================================
I am amazed that none of you have discovered the vector for this
insideous battery virus. Of course it's the JAZZ library which creates
SysRPL programs, that can crash your 48. Forcing the user to flip the
batteries around to unlock the 48 thereby damaging the "Diode
Protection Circuit" allowing the 48 to be infected by the battery
virus. Now don't quote me but I think there's a conspiracy between
Mika and the AAA batteries to allow the TI-92 to take over the world.
-Alan
----------------------------
I always here voices in my head, when I post here.
bar...@starbase.neosoft.com (barrym) wrote:
>Don't you think it's naive to think that the virus protection
>circuitry devised in the early days of the 48's will stand up
>the such recent battery viruses as are found in Renewals and
>Lithiums and Hi-cap nicads? The only real protection is to not
>install batteries in the 48 at all. I realize it's somewhat less
>useful this way but it's much safer.
>Barry
>John H Meyers (jhme...@miu.edu) wrote:
barrym
On Fri, 17 May 1996, Dave Arnett wrote:
> bar...@starbase.neosoft.com (barrym) wrote:
> >Don't you think it's naive to think that the virus protection
> >circuitry devised in the early days of the 48's will stand up
> >the such recent battery viruses as are found in Renewals and
> >Lithiums and Hi-cap nicads? The only real protection is to not
> >install batteries in the 48 at all. I realize it's somewhat less
> >useful this way but it's much safer.
> >
> >Barry
> >
>
> I'm afraid Barry has missed some of the background material on
> clasified HP calculator development programs, involving the CIA,
> FBI, NASA, and Burger King. Either that, or Barry has forgotten
> both what was said and what was not said. When dealing with
> declassified US Government information, you must always pay
> careful attention to exactly what is not said, and the tone of
> voice with which it is not spoken.
>
> Since I'm not going to go back and unsay all of that again, let
> me say only this: Who do you think ORIGINALLY developed such
> "new" cells as Renewal, Lithium, and Hi-cap Nicad; and when?
I was only referring to what was said, and in keeping with the
best doublethink priniciples I didn't acknowledge what was
unsaid. Proper science can only be based on observable facts
and the organizations you've listed above have determined
what facts we're allowed to observe.
Up the consumer!
Barry
Dave Arnett
barrym <bar...@neosoft.com> wrote:
Proper Science?
Oh, I see now. You're neither forgetful nor uninformed. You're
one of those purist fanatics who would replace solid opinion polls
and irrelevant extrapolations with ::shudder:: measurable facts.
Those may be the makings of good calculators, but their utterly
useless in running a country.
Nice to meet you.
Some folks have suggested that the input protection diode is the
primary method for an HP48 to defeat battery viruses. That's not
entirely correct.
The method the HP48 uses to combat battery viruses is simple. We
digitally filter them out. My schematic of the HP48 power supply
was intentionally vague in this area, but you all will stumble across
the truth soon enough, so I'll just come out with it.
The diode is a preliminary filter, and was sufficient originally.
Soon we discovered we needed more protection, so now we run
nearly all the battery power through the CPU. The only power that
does not go through the CPU is the display power and the speaker
power. These come directly from the battery. That's why you
sometimes see strange data on the display when you first turn the
calculator ON. It also accounts for the light buzzing sound a few
customers have reported. (We originally thought is was too much
caffeine during finals week.)
For the power that runs the guts of the calculator, the power is
first digitized. The digitized power is sent through a filter which
converts any Saturn viruses into x86 viruses (which are so common
that they just get lost in the background noise). A second stage of
the filter then converts the x86 viruses into Window OS Upgrades
(a relatively simple task). These are useless, of course, but are
definitely benign.
The really useful part comes when we take these benign bits and
split them. Since the bit is a fundamental unit in the computer
world, splitting them releases great amounts of energy. We run
the rest of the machine off of this released energy.
We have found this to be a highly effective method of protecting
the RPL Operating System against modern battery viruses. One key
to its success is that we do not publicise the filter equations
(otherwise, fiendish minds looking for impressive Senior Projects
would make inverse filters to predistort their viruses prior to
unleashing them). We don't publish the equations, but they do
exist. Just to prove it, I'll tell you that the equations are in
Iambic Pentameter, arranged into a modified Italian Sonnet form.
The efficiency of the filter relies on a patented scheme in
which certain numbers are found to rhyme mathematically.
Good Day!
Dave.
-------
I don't speak for Hewlett Packard when I post here.
Steve VanDevender
In article <4nqcvl$q...@hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com> Dave Arnett <da...@cv.hp.com> writes:
[ fascinating and undoubtedly true explanation deleted ]
We have found this to be a highly effective method of protecting
the RPL Operating System against modern battery viruses. One key
to its success is that we do not publicise the filter equations
(otherwise, fiendish minds looking for impressive Senior Projects
would make inverse filters to predistort their viruses prior to
unleashing them). We don't publish the equations, but they do
exist. Just to prove it, I'll tell you that the equations are in
Iambic Pentameter, arranged into a modified Italian Sonnet form.
The efficiency of the filter relies on a patented scheme in
which certain numbers are found to rhyme mathematically.
Now you've done it, Dave. Someone will build an AC power supply
that will do a brute-force search on the now dramatically-reduced
search space you describe and discover a battery virus that will
get past the filter.
Remember, when you swap batteries with someone, you're swapping
batteries with everyone else they ever swapped batteries with.
--
Steve VanDevender ste...@greylady.uoregon.edu
"Bipedalism--an unrecognized disease affecting over 99% of the population.
Symptoms include lack of traffic sense, slow rate of travel, and the
classic, easily recognized behavior known as walking."
barrym
Much of this is pretty old news and is even in the manuals that
come with the 48. I specifically refer to the mention of the
fact that the forms in the 48G(X) are designed to be similar in
design and shape to a windows dialog box. I don't remember the
manual page offhand.
This is obviously an attempt to make the effects of the virus
appear intentional, and who can blame you for not going head-
to-head with the 6 billion dollar man and the MS virus.
Barry
> We have found this to be a highly effective method of protecting
> the RPL Operating System against modern battery viruses. One key
> to its success is that we do not publicise the filter equations
> (otherwise, fiendish minds looking for impressive Senior Projects
> would make inverse filters to predistort their viruses prior to
> unleashing them). We don't publish the equations, but they do
> exist. Just to prove it, I'll tell you that the equations are in
> Iambic Pentameter, arranged into a modified Italian Sonnet form.
> The efficiency of the filter relies on a patented scheme in
> which certain numbers are found to rhyme mathematically.
>
Corey Bruns
d> We have found this to be a highly effective method of protecting
d> the RPL Operating System against modern battery viruses. One key
d> to its success is that we do not publicise the filter equations
d> (otherwise, fiendish minds looking for impressive Senior Projects
d> would make inverse filters to predistort their viruses prior to
d> unleashing them). We don't publish the equations, but they do
d> exist. Just to prove it, I'll tell you that the equations are in
d> Iambic Pentameter, arranged into a modified Italian Sonnet form.
A friend of mine who blew out the protector diode by reversing his
batteries had a problem with a battery virus that must have somehow
been able to find its way around the filter, but was not able to get
around the diode. He found that if he went to the chemistry lab and
got someone to distract the professor/TA while he put the batteries in
the centrifugr, the virus would be forced out of the end. It worked
better if the positive terminal faces away from the center as the
smaller exit area forces the virus out at afaster rate.
---
Corey Bruns (corey...@commctr.com)
I don't even speak for myself when I post here.
--
barrym
Corey Bruns (Corey...@commctr.com) wrote:
: d> We have found this to be a highly effective method of protecting
There was a story on NPR news the other day explaining that
centrifuges in labs all over the world are behaving strangely.
It seems that they've begun to rotate in an inverse circle,
thereby throwing the heavier materials toward the center.
I wonder if there might possibly be a connection. Do centrifuges
have diodes?
Barry
Bob Chambers
Now that clicks, down here in OZ, we have often had problems with
our centrifuges running as the do "upside down". Suggest the
various labs swap units - centrifuge problems solved. But what abt
those viruses?
--
Bob Chambers Voice: 61 2 449 9112 FAX: 61 2 9988 3580
b...@chase.apana.org.au
AEPG
I have first hand experience with this most trublesome type of viruses.
Since I don't have access to HP batteries and other sophisticated
equipment, I have to use more crude methods to prevent my HP from
getting infected.
I have learned that these type of viruses only attach themselves to the
system during a cold power-up. To counter this I apply a stong
"noisy" EMF, such as an arc from GMC 90 amp alternator, parallel to the
batteries. This causes the virus to load with stray bits and holes, thus
causing an illegal CRC and a clean power-up.
This method is especially useful when on the road and you need your HP as
a GPS.
Good luck,
ÆP
Dave Arnett
bar...@starbase.neosoft.com (barrym) wrote:>
>There was a story on NPR news the other day explaining that
>centrifuges in labs all over the world are behaving strangely.
>It seems that they've begun to rotate in an inverse circle,
>thereby throwing the heavier materials toward the center.
>I wonder if there might possibly be a connection. Do centrifuges
>have diodes?
Both mine do. It's the best way to stop them once you've rotated
them in the imaginary plane.
Dave.
------
I don't speak for rec.fiction.nerd when I post here.