The House of Arundel - Three

[leo van de pas]

Segment Three

Richard FitzAlan, 10th Earl of Arundel
born 1346
died 21 September 1397 Cheapside, London (beheaded)
married (1) in 1359
Elizabeth de Bohun
daughter of William, 1st Earl of Northampton, and Elizabeth Badlesmere
died 3 April 1385
married (2) circa 15 August 1390
Philippa Mortimer
daughter of Edmund, 3rd Earl of March, and Philippa of Clarence
born 21 November 1375 Ludlow
died 26 September 1400 Halnaker

Sources
Burke's Extince Peerage, 1866, pages 58, 201

Burke's Guide to the Royal Family, 1973, page 199
This is Philippa Mortimer's entry (as decendant of King Edward III) and
shows hbow she married Richard Fitzalan, Earl of Arundel

Plantagenet Ancestry, by David Faris, 1st edition page 106
this is an entry for Richard Fitzalan, Earl of Arundel, three daughters are
also mentioned, all as FitzAlan.

Cahiers de Saint Louis, page 831
Entry for Philippa Mortimer and shows she married Richard FitzAlan, Earl of
Arundel, also their son, John, is shown as "Jean Fitz-Alan".

Children of Richard FitzAlan, 19th Earl of Arundel
and Elizabeth de Bohun
1. Eleanor FitzAlan
died circa 1 August 1375
married 1371
Robert de Ufford, son of William de Ufford, 2nd Earl of Suffolk, and Joane
de Montagu, Baroness Montagu

Sources
The Complete Peerage, Volume XII/1 page 434
this shows Robert de Ufford marrying Eleanor, daughter of Richard FitzAlan,
Earl of Arundel

Cahiers de Saint Louis, page 960
This is an entry for Joane de Montagu, Baroness Montagu, mother of Robert de
Ufford who, here also, marries Eleanore FitzAlan

2.Elizabeth FitzAlan
died 8 July 1425
married (1) before December 1378
Sir William de Montagu
son of William, 2nd Earl of Salisbury, and Elizabeth Mohun
married (2) July 1384
Thomas de Mowbray, Duke of Norfolk
son of John, 4th Lord Mowbray, and Elizabeth de Segrave,
Baroness Segrave
born 22 March 1366
died 22 September 1399 Venice
married (3) before 19 August 1401
Sir Robert Goushill, of Everingham
son of Sir Nicholas Goushill
died 21 July 1403 (of battle wounds)
married IV before 3 July 1414
Sir Gerard Ufflete

Sources
Burke's Exptinct Peerage, 1866, pages 201, 387

The Complete Peerage Volume XI page 390 (and elsewhere) on this page is
shown that Sir William de Montagu married Elizabeth, daughter of Richard
FitzAlan, Earl of Arundel

The Lineage etc. of Prince Charles, by Gerald Paget
Volume II page 404 entry Q 98809 shows how Elizabeth's second husband (and
Elizabeth in fact) are ancestors of Prince Charles
Volume II page 406 entry Q 99372 shows how Elizabeth (through her 3rd
husband) is an ancestor of Prince Charles. Again, only the name FitzAlan is
used.

3.Joan FitzAlan
born 1375
died 14 November 1435married
William de Beauchamp, 1st Baron Abergavenny
son of Thomas, 3rd Earl of Warwick, and Catherine Mortimer
born before 1344
died 8 May 1411

Sources
The Complete Peerage Volume I page 24-26
This shows how William de Beauchamp married Joan, sister and eventually
co-heir of Thomas FitzAlan, Earl of Arundel, and daughter of Richard
FitzAlan, Earl of Arundel, and Elizabeth de Bohun.

The Lineage etc of Prince Charles
Volume II page 406 under Q 99364 is shown how Joan, and her husband, are
ancestors of Prince Charles.
The used, again, FitzAlan
page 423 under Q 113638 Joan herself is mentioned, as daughter of Richard
FitzAlanm Earl of Arundel, indicating another line of ancestry to Prince
Charles

4.Margaret FitzAlan
married Sir Rowland Lenthall, of Hampton Court
Source
Burke's Extinct Peerage, 1866, page 201

5.Thomas FitzAlan, 11th Earl of Arundel
born circa 1381
died 13 October 1415 Arundel
married 26 November 1405 Lambeth
Beatrice (Brites) de Portugal
illegitimate daughter of Joao I, King of Portugal, and Inez Perez Esteves
born circa 1386
died 23 October 1439 Bordeau, buried at Arundel

Sources
Burke's Extinct Peerage, 1866, page 201
The Complete Peerage, Volume I, page 245,246
Here he is shown as Thomas FitzAlan

6.Alice FitzAlan
married before March 1392
John Cherleton, Lord Cherleton, feudal Lord of Powis
son of John Cherleton, Lord Cherleton, and Joan de Stafford
born 25 April 1362
died 19 October 1401 Castle of Pool
she had a child by Henry Beaufort, Cardinal and Bishop of Winchester, son of
John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, and Katherine Roet
he was born circa 1375 Beaufort Castle
died 11 April 1447

Sources
Burke's Extinct Peerage, 1866, page 201
The Complete Peerage Volume III, page 161
shows how John Cherleton married Alice, daughter of Richard FitzAlan, Earl
of Arundel
Cahiers de Saint Louis, page 95 (and 875)
This shows the entry for Henry Beaufort and Alice is referred to as Alice
FitzAlan, daughter of Richard, Earl of Arundel, and Elizabeth de Bohun

son of Richard Fitzalan, 10th Earl of Arundel
and Philippa Mortimer
7.John FitzAlan
died young

sources
Burke's Extinct Peerage, 1866, page 201

Cahiers de Saint Louis, page 831
here he is shown with FitzAlan as his surname

To be continued

Leo van de Pas

died 6 August 1382

[ADRIANC...@cs.com]

Leo wrote:
>

(s/b 10th Earl under the numbering you have used)

> and Elizabeth de Bohun
> 1. Eleanor FitzAlan
> died circa 1 August 1375
> married 1371
> Robert de Ufford, son of William de Ufford, 2nd Earl of Suffolk, and Joane
> de Montagu, Baroness Montagu
>
> Sources
> The Complete Peerage, Volume XII/1 page 434
> this shows Robert de Ufford marrying Eleanor, daughter of Richard FitzAlan,
> Earl of Arundel
>

Perhaps, but I don't like it, if her parents were m Sep 1359, she would be
under 12 at this marriage.

CP Vol xii/i has _his_ death as 1 Aug 1375, did she d around the same time?

The daughter Alice who m John Cherleton of Powis (4Bn) Cherleton. CP Vol III
p 161, did yue see that John 4Bn Cherleton's brother, the 5Bn Cherleton m a
g-d of the 9th Earl of Arundel

>>>
5.Thomas FitzAlan, 11th Earl of Arundel
born circa 1381
died 13 October 1415 Arundel
married 26 November 1405 Lambeth
Beatrice (Brites) de Portugal
illegitimate daughter of Joao I, King of Portugal, and Inez Perez Esteves
born circa 1386
died 23 October 1439 Bordeau, buried at Arundel
>>>>

According to _Arundel Priory_ by Mark Turnham Elvins (Philimores 1981) and
forward by Miles XVII Duke of Norfok:

"Those Buried in the Fitzalan Chapel (as recorded in the Arundel Cathedral
Bead Roll)
...
1415.-Fitzalan, Earl Thomas . (13 October.)
...
1421.-Fitzalan, Earl John I.
...
1435:-Fitzalan, Earl John II. (12 June)
1439.-Fitzalan, Beatrice (wife of Earl Thomas). (23 October)
....
1488.- Fitzalan, Earl William.
Fitzalan, Joan
....
1524._ Fitzalan, Earl Thomas (October.)
1580.-Fitzalan, Earl Henry. (Last of the Fitzalans persecuted during the
reign of Edward VI.) (24 February)
..."

In 20th c (From the Fitzalan Chapel Register) there are a number of Fitzalan
Howards buried there.

The Arundel Cathedral Bead Roll is (or was in 1981) deposited in Arundel
Cathedral archives.

regards
Adrian

[ADRIANC...@cs.com]

This lovely compuserve mailer chopped a line of text, it should be:

Leo wrote:

> Children of Richard FitzAlan, 19th Earl of Arundel

(s/b 10th Earl under the numbering you have used)

[leo van de pas]

Many thanks Adrian, see below

----- Original Message -----
From: <ADRIANC...@cs.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: The House of Arundel - Three

> Leo wrote:
> >
>
> (s/b 10th Earl under the numbering you have used)
>
> > and Elizabeth de Bohun
> > 1. Eleanor FitzAlan
> > died circa 1 August 1375
> > married 1371
> > Robert de Ufford, son of William de Ufford, 2nd Earl of Suffolk, and
Joane
> > de Montagu, Baroness Montagu
> >
> > Sources
> > The Complete Peerage, Volume XII/1 page 434
> > this shows Robert de Ufford marrying Eleanor, daughter of Richard
FitzAlan,
> > Earl of Arundel
> >
>
> Perhaps, but I don't like it, if her parents were m Sep 1359, she would be
> under 12 at this marriage.

=========Perhaps it was just a contracted marriage.

>
> CP Vol xii/i has _his_ death as 1 Aug 1375, did she d around the same
time?
>

=======At first I thought it was my error, but then Cahiers de Saint Louis,
page 960, does gives us that both died about 1 August 1375. And,
strangely, Robert's siblings all died in 1375. Thomas, William, Edward (or
Edmund) and Margaret. Perhaps it was a disease that wiped out this family?

>
> The daughter Alice who m John Cherleton of Powis (4Bn) Cherleton. CP Vol
III
> p 161, did yue see that John 4Bn Cherleton's brother, the 5Bn Cherleton m
a
> g-d of the 9th Earl of Arundel

=========Yes, and that granddaughter is, genealogically, quite an important
and interesting figure, being the mother of Anne Mortimer who gave the right
to the throne to the House of York.

Best wishes
Leo van de Pas

<snip>

[Stephen Chanko]

Does anyone have the correct date of Elizabeth FitzAlan, daughter of Richard FitzAlan, 11th Early of Arundel and its source? I have seen different dates, some c. 1371, 1366, etc. Any help would be most appreciative. Regards, Stephen

[Peter Stewart]

On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 10:08:09 PM UTC+10, Stephen Chanko wrote:

> Does anyone have the correct date of Elizabeth FitzAlan, daughter of Richard FitzAlan, 11th Early of Arundel and its source? I have seen different dates, some c. 1371, 1366, etc. Any help would be most appreciative. Regards, Stephen

You can help yourself by giving up the search for a birthdate of a woman born in the 14th century - these are very rarely recorded (and even more rarely certain when they are).

In this case, you can read the series of inquisitions post mortem (numbers 418-441) here:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89079952164;view=1up;seq=377

There was no need to state her age and they didn't. She was married for the first time by December 1378 (see CP vol 11 p 391 note (a): Cal. Patent Rolls, 1377-81, p. 296; B.M. Harl. Chr., 83 E 37.), hence it is assumed that she was born by 1366 in order to have been aged 12 or more at the time.

You would be very lucky to find conclusive proof of the year of her birth, and relying on luck is not a very efficient method in medieval genealogy.

Peter Stewart