Bowing and shaking hands

[Tom]

I'm in discussion with my constituents. I believe a bow is a formal type of
hand shake, and that to shake hands after a bow is actually not correct
etiquette. Is this correct?

[Zak]

I'm pretty sure that you're right. It is also a possibility that the japanese don't shake hands for cleanliness reasons, or it could just be force of habit. 

[Jamie Labonte]

Again, that's not true. If you watch any of the Pride Bushido matches, japanese competitors will hug.

[Jamie Labonte]

No, you can shake hands after a bow. After all, Japanese besinessmen bow
repeatedly sometimes.

[Bruce Knight]

The martial arts and Judo in particular "start with etiquette and ends with
etiquette".

Most asian arts use the traditional bow. The bow signifies respect for the
individual, the dojo or the mat area. It reflects a thankyou for allowing
you to practice your skills. And should one of you get injured, there was
no ill-intent meant.

You're saying all of this with the bow and no handshake is needed. The
Japanese only shake hands at the completion of International Competitions
since most westerners do it. In tournaments like the All Japan
Championships, they don't shake hands.

ukemi7
Yondan

"Jamie Labonte" <jamiean...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4072A79A...@sympatico.ca...

[BertS]

I learned Judo in Cuba in the early years of the Cuban revolution. I was an
orange belt at the time I left Cuba and never continued due to an injury to my
right ACL. :-(

We were taught that we would salute by bowing but never let our eyes move away
from our opponent's eyes and to keep our fists in front of the family jewels
to protect against a sneaky early attack. I am not sure where the custom came
from but both my teacher and his teacher trained under Ishikawa (later
Ishikawa Sensei) at Havana's Judansha kai before he left Cuba to go to the US.

I had not seen a competition since then until last month's US Collegiate
Championship in Miami and was curious why the competitors would shake hands. I
guess I am behind the times. :-)

I did see a couple of strangulations that I thought were outlawed in
competition. Something done with the lapel, okuri-something, lapel pulled
tight across the neck. Are those allowed now?

Bert

[Dusty]

After occasionally lurking here I decided to reply to this post. Bert, the
habit of not looking away from your opponents eyes when bowing goes way
back, over 50 years in Judo for me, and has always been taught in Martial
Arts dojos that I have been associated with. BTW, Ishikawa Sensei was one
of our great teachers in the USA and while I never met him many of my
friends learned from him.

I lived in Miami for nearly 25 years from early 1973 until late 1996. I
opened several Judo dojos there and taught until the early 1980's when my
knees gave out and Judo politics finally threw me over. I assisted at the
Kolligan Judo Club, and created the Sylvania Judo Club and Silver Bluff Judo
Club. When Len Vieria left I took over his Homestead Judo Club. That was
the last club I taught at and finally stopped practicing Judo in 1988.
Knees were shot. Of course, I would remember the Judo guys and gals down
there if their names were mentioned, but at my age memories of those days
are foggy.

Jeff Beish (retired)

"BertS" <aas...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:zEqdc.1970$zj3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...

[BertS]

Jeff, I appreciate your taking the time to answer me.

I saw Ishikawa Sensei once in Havana. My teacher took some of us to see him do
a kata demonstration. He was impressive but I am afraid I did not know enough
to understand how good the guy was.

When I came to Miami I was just too busy trying to make a living to even try
to get back to Judo. I visited a dojo on Tamiami Trail near SW 72nd Avenue
that was run by a friend of my teacher a few times. The place still exists and
I am going to try to visit again to watch.

I guess I hurt my knee early but I can imagine what a bad knee after years of
playing Judo would be like. I hurt it when we were doing some training for the
new police force right after the revolution and a guy fell on my extended knee
while showing him how to do a tai otoshi. Instead of falling he just collapsed
on me. Hit my kneecap on the way down.

Best regards

Bert
(who still loves the sport)