I've finally figured this puppy out
Ed
felt like there was something I was missing. Some basic ingredient in the
conglomerated Japanese psyche that eluded comprehension. I could go along
for years without really noticing that there is a fundamental difference
between how I live my life, and how Japanese live theirs, and then I would
suddenly come face-to-face with a situation where I stepped in the poo-poo
of life in Japan and couldn't figure out where I stepped to get this crap
wedged up between my toes.
I think I have finally figured it out. That one aspect of Japanese that they
have so successfully hid from me for so many years. And I can well
understand why it has been hidden. It is very easy to hide something you
don't have. It's something so mundane and understated in today's society
that if I hadn't been kicked in the teeth by it, I could have spent a
lifetime never realizing what it is that sets this society apart from my
own.
Japanese are not kind.
That's right. They are not kind. It's not that they are unkind, but rather
that the concept of kindness isn't part of the Japanese psyche. Oh, they
understand the concept well enough. It's just that they don't see the point.
Why be kind to a stranger? Why care about somebody because they are human,
thus deserve kindness?
This simple little thing explains everything in this country that has ever
slapped me in the face and forced me to realize that Japan is filled with
foreigners, and not just Americans who were born in a different country and
can't speak proper English. Everything from the ludicrous "education"
system, the incredibly lame music, treatment of criminals and the
handicapped, to the hopelessly inept politicians can be explained quite
easily if we just realize that "kindness" is a foreign concept to Japanese.
There is no soul or heart in this country. It's like living on a borg cube.
The Japanese might smile, be courteous and friendly, but they don't know
what being kind is. The replacements like volunteering to help old people in
rest homes or cleaning out the gutters in front of someone else's house are
not real replacements for seeing somebody who needs help and giving it to
them without worrying about how much it will cost or what can be gained.
Kindness is its own reward. But the Japanese just don't get it.
Have you ever wondered why there are no homeless shelters or soup kitchens
in Japan? It's because individual Japanese don't care about anybody but
themselves. Have you ever wondered why Japanese politicians campaign with
such inanities like "This is Suzuki Taro! Yes, I am Suzuki Taro! Suzuki Taro
I am!" as they rumble through your neighborhood at top volume? It's because
they don't know what else to say. They don't have a clue about what
politicians are supposed to do except take bribes. There is no political
philosophy in this country because without being required to be kind, they
are at a loss as to what people in the area might appreciate. I highly doubt
any of them have even heard of the notion of a political philosophy, or have
contemplated the rationale of governing government.
I'm finished frothing at the mouth for the nonce. Suffice to say, I am no
longer a big fan of Japan. This place and these people are not worthy of
being ranked among humankind because they don't know what it means to belong
to that group known as humankind.
--
Could you lend me a hand? Mine is starting to get tired.
Fabian
> Japanese are not kind.
It's tough when your girl dumps you isn't it :p
--
--
Fabian
Visit my website often and for long periods!
http://www.lajzar.co.uk
Ed
"Fabian" <laj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bpl40f$1p2s59$1...@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Ed hu kiteb:
>
> > Japanese are not kind.
>
> It's tough when your girl dumps you isn't it :p
Not the case in this instance. Merely an overwhelming feeling of regret that
I have invested so much of my life in this country only to finally realize
that kindness is based on ethics, and is not a universal human trait.
If you think you've got an example of Japanese kindness, I'd be glad to
destroy your delusion.
Brett Robson
>
>Japanese are not kind.
>
I don't want to rub it in, but it's taken you how long to work this out? I guess
you don't catch commuter trains everyday and see young healthy men in their 20s
shove old ladies out of the way to get a seat.
.
----
"You don't bang it at 11:00pm but on the other hand, you don't play tribal house
when you're headlining a tech-house party"
DJ Mike McKenna talking shit
Eric Takabayashi
What happened to you Ed? You used to be the guy who argued against the
existence of absolute morals. Now you suddenly discover (and care) that
"Japanese are not kind"?
I've been spending hours and a proportion of my salary* hanging out with the
local homeless. I'd seen a new bunch of homeless there recently, but no one
even made eye contact with them, despite being in one of the busiest parts of
the city. They were in such a state, lying on the filthy sand in a playground
under the pitch dark train tracks, that I could not be one of the people who
simply walked by. They were happy to receive anything I had to offer, because
they had nearly nothing. I say were, because just this morning about nine a.m.,
one group of homeless was cleared out by workers (an elderly couple including a
woman on crutches was allowed to stay).
Behind Fukuyama Castle were two men with no jobs and no money. I say were,
because I never met the other one, but his friend says he was hospitalized for
malnutrition because he had had no food for a week, and could no longer eat. He
was on an IV in the hospital, but might probably die, anyway. I found the
remaining man in the dark lying on a piece of cardboard on a concrete bench,
exposed to the elements. He doesn't even have a blanket or futon. Living in the
castle park, no fire is allowed for light or cooking. Looking at what he has
laying around (I have found local homeless to be very private people, with no
names, even when speaking to each other, and the most precise (and only) answer
I have received to "Where are you from?" is "Nihon-kai". The only thing I know
is all of them claim not to be from Fukuyama.) it seems he eats what he gets
out of the tourist trash. Today at noon, I found him sitting alone eating a
quarter slice of persimmon.
*My wife was happy to allow me to give homeless my unused, even new clothing
and a couple of sports bags, and gave me some of her own jackets when I told
her there were also homeless women, but she became quite upset later when she
found out that I also go shopping for food and other items such as candles,
warm socks, and toiletries for the homeless. "Why are you buying new things?"
she asked. "You can't help (all of them) forever" she said. I asked, and she
claims Buddhism does not teach helping the poor.
[After I explained to her the concept of tithing, pointing out that I haven't
been paying my home church for ten years, in fact "owing" them over four
million yen, she shut up. Now when I tell my children that I'm not going to
give them as many snacks as I used to, because I want to help people who don't
have enough, my wife helps explain it to them, and they understand. And when I
told my wife last week that if we are poor in the future and the children don't
have money for college, they can join the military or go to the SDF academy,
she says things will work themselves out.]
No, of course I can't help all of them forever. Homeless say there are 80
homeless in Fukuyama (I had estimated only 50. After striking up conversation
with such people, I can pretty safely assume nowadays that otherwise ordinary
looking middle aged and elderly men with well-worn clothes or who are scruffy
looking loitering downtown are homeless, particularly if in groups). But I only
hang out with the approximately 15 homeless who live around the station, most
of whom are clean and decently fed. (On one day, I did see two groups of three
homeless each cooking one pack of ramen which is why I habitually give them
groceries.) Some even have regular work.
Of the homeless I've met here, I only know three or four who are asses I would
prefer not to do anything for (but do anyway). When not complaining about the
lack of jobs or being hassled for being homeless, they are normal old men.
But try to tell Japanese this. Almost universally, and I have spoken about
homeless (and poverty in general) often over the course of seven years in
Fukuyama, Japanese claim that homeless "choose" to be that way, or that they
have no desire to work or work hard. Even me pointing out that companies don't
easily hire middle aged men, particularly homeless ones, fails to generate any
sympathy or understanding. Just yesterday I got into an argument with a man
running a family business, pointing out after questioning, how he did not
consider millions of younger, educated Japanese without jobs lazy (he claimed
he did not know enough about them and their situation), but his first reaction
to hearing about local homeless (many people will even deny there are homeless,
even when I tell them precisely where to go look downtown) was to slander them.
I told him to speak to some homeless and find out the truth about them and
their situation. "Never" he said "I don't want to". I said he was a perfect
example of the apathetic and uncaring Japanese. I'd pointed out earlier how
Japanese people say people with problems have their own lives or make their own
choices, but when they are in trouble, as with North Korea, they expect the
world to do something about it right away. Still no reaction other than his
usual smirk. He didn't offer any employment opportunities, either.
I know people without enough socks and underwear, no long underwear for the
winter, no shampoo, no razors, no combs, no toothbrushes, no towels, no way to
cook and no source of light (until they met me, at least). I know people
without enough food. I see people laying in filth. I know people with no jobs,
and I see people rummaging through trash or pushing heavily laden bicycles or
carts to get empty cans to sell to a scrap metal dealer near the river for 60
yen per kilogram. I see homeless who keep their surroundings clean, even
sweeping and bagging fallen autumn leaves in the park for FREE, wishing they
had just 5,000 yen per month for the effort.
But Japanese are ignorant and cruel enough to claim that homeless "choose" to
be this way, while again, making excuses for themselves or the other millions
of ordinary Japanese (particularly women and housewives) who have no jobs,
pointedly avoiding calling THEM lazy. I probably know hundreds of Japanese with
no jobs, not looking for work, and many who explicitly tell me to my face, they
don't want to do ANY work, preferring to live off parents, husbands, or
government support (while they also bitch about taxes and the pension system
which they do nothing to support).
Miraculously, none of these unemployed ordinary people are ever lazy or
undeserving of help.
Only homeless or poor people who weren't born with the same opportunity to live
off others.
Fuck those Japanese.
The number of homeless I know are so few, that I figure even spending 3,000 yen
a month would make a real difference. I am making some difference all by
myself. Homeless thank me profusely for handing them a few spoonfuls of instant
coffee and sugar in a ziploc bag, some tea bags or a bag of food I'd already
opened. They smile when I walk or ride by.
Fukuyama is a region of half a million. For ten yen a month per capita, there
likely wouldn't be any homeless, because they could be housed, or paid regular
wages to keep streets, waterways and walls clean.
But the Japanese don't get it. The best I can do is get two or three hundred
yen out of a literal handful of people, once.
Fuck them.
Eric Takabayashi
> "Fabian" <laj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bpl40f$1p2s59$1...@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Ed hu kiteb:
> >
> > > Japanese are not kind.
> >
> > It's tough when your girl dumps you isn't it :p
>
> Not the case in this instance. Merely an overwhelming feeling of regret that
> I have invested so much of my life in this country
What of it? You can go home and start over, can't you? If I had to, I'd go home
to study to be a nurse 18 years late, alongside kids who didn't make it into
university.
> only to finally realize that kindness is based on ethics, and is not a
> universal human trait.
Perhaps, but Japanese used to have a sense of unity community, which is more
applicable. Even today, there is the expression when being thanked for helping
out, that hard times are otagaisama.
They do in comics and on tv, anyway.
> If you think you've got an example of Japanese kindness, I'd be glad to
> destroy your delusion.
Some Japanese stumble over themselves to do something for foreigners, with
apparently nothing in return, not even a free English lesson. Complete
strangers hand gifts to my mother when she walks around lost because she
doesn't understand Japanese.
Ed
"Brett Robson" <jet...@deja.com> wrote in message
news:bpl56...@drn.newsguy.com...
> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:04:35 +0900, Ed ...
> >
> >Japanese are not kind.
> >
>
> I don't want to rub it in, but it's taken you how long to work this out? I
guess
> you don't catch commuter trains everyday and see young healthy men in
their 20s
> shove old ladies out of the way to get a seat.
I just knew someone would point this out. I don't take commuter trains to
work. I drive to work. And that should have been enough, but I'm kinda slow
sometimes. I'm at the point now where I'm wondering how to attach a cannon
to the hood (bonnet for the layperson) of my car so I can get rid of the
geriatric committee in their kei trucks.
Michael Cash
belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>Ed hu kiteb:
>
>> Japanese are not kind.
>
>It's tough when your girl dumps you isn't it :p
Ed has done nothing more than say what I've been restraining myself
from saying for quite some time.
I was thinking today that the shortest book one could possibly write
would be "The Japanese: A Compendium Of Their Altruistic Acts"
I was also thinking that I really really really need to make an effort
to get out and be around Japanese who aren't driving so that I can
remind myself that Japanese aren't 100% assholes 100% of the time.
I was also thinking that the primary difference between a Japanese
roadway and a porcupine is the number of pricks per square inch. (It's
higher on Japanese roadways, in case you didn't know).
Japan and the Japanese are very interesting in that the less you know
about them, the easier they are to like. The longer you stay here and
the more you learn about them, the greater becomes the contempt with
which one regards them. The secret to staying relatively happy and
maintaining some slight grasp on your sanity is to studiously avoid
picking up too much information on them.
It's as though when we arrive in Japan we are handed a large glass
full of water, which represents all the love we are ever going to have
for the place and the people, and we have to carry it around with us
at all times. Things we learn about the place startle us, or the
people's behavior jostles us, and there goes some of the water
sloshing out of the glass. We're all going to spill some; it can't be
helped. But after a while you realize that you have to make a
concerted effort to hang onto what remains in the glass. This is a
large part of the reason that I purposely avoid news items about this
place these days. There is never anything that raises the place or the
people in my estimation, and my glass has little enough remaining in
it as it is.
Michael Cash
<eta...@yahoo.co.jp> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>Some Japanese stumble over themselves to do something for foreigners, with
>apparently nothing in return, not even a free English lesson. Complete
>strangers hand gifts to my mother when she walks around lost because she
>doesn't understand Japanese.
I once taught an English class at a community center in a small town
in Aomori Prefecture. I asked the students why they wanted to learn
English. The most common answer was that they wanted to be able to
communicate with and make friends with people (from) around the world.
That's fine.
But you should have seen what happened when I asked them to stand and
sort of mill about while introducing themselves to each other, either
in English or Japanese.
You would have thought I had asked them to pluck their eyeballs out,
such was their reluctance. They wanted to make friends with somebody
halfway around the world, but they wouldn't say hi to somebody who
lived in the same little one-horse town with them.
Sure, Japanese fall all over themselves to be nice to each other when
there is some group-related societal interest in doing so. But when it
comes to just performing some random act of kindness to/for another
Japanese, fucking forget about it. These people can see another
Japanese fallen injured on the street and they'll just keep right the
fuck on going. I've seen it lots of times, and each time it was the
nasty ol' gaigin who stopped to play the Samaritan.
I think I may have mentioned before that four times in this country I
have found lost wallets and, through the police, returned them to
their owners. And each time I voluntarily passed up my legal right to
receive a portion of the money contained in them.
Only one person ever even said "thanks". And he was Chinese.
Michael Cash
the alphabet and kept on going with:
>On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:04:35 +0900, Ed ...
>>
>>Japanese are not kind.
>>
>
>I don't want to rub it in, but it's taken you how long to work this out? I guess
>you don't catch commuter trains everyday and see young healthy men in their 20s
>shove old ladies out of the way to get a seat.
I'm thinking about quitting driving trucks in Japan and trying to get
a job working in a dildo factory in America. I figure that way if I
have to spend more than eight hours a day surrounds by tens of
thousands of pricks, at least I'll get paid time-and-a-half for it.
Dick Muhfukkin Bagswing
> It's as though when we arrive in Japan we are handed a large glass
> full of water, which represents all the love we are ever going to have
> for the place and the people, and we have to carry it around with us
> at all times.
In my three and a half years here I see it along these lines also but here
is my personal analogy....
You have a sponge....a big one. Call it LIFE.
You have a big bowl of water. Call that water FUN.
Soak LIFE full of FUN.
Hold it.
Enjoy it's heft and full feeling.
Now,SQUEEZE IT!!!!!
SQUEEZE THE FUCKER!!!!!!
SQUEEZE UNTIL IT IS ABSOLUTELY EMPTY AND DRY!!!!!
That's what the japanese do.
Brian
Ed
"Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
news:3FBE1EDB...@yahoo.co.jp...
> What happened to you Ed? You used to be the guy who argued against the
> existence of absolute morals. Now you suddenly discover (and care) that
> "Japanese are not kind"?
I still do. Morality doesn't "exst". It subsists upon intersubjective moral
values. In other words, intersubjective morality exists because the culture
exists and the morality "exists" dependent upon the culture. Take the
culture away and the morality ceases to exist. True existence is not
dependent upon anything other than existence. Kinda like a tree falling in
the forest. It makes a noise regardless of no ears to hear it.
But you asked what happened to me. I guess I've just gotten tired of the
borg cube. The endless procession of stern-faced salarymen going to work,
the hatchet-faced housewives who have spent their lives hating and refusing
to believe anything that doesn't agree with their misery, the children who
grow up with no more incentive than to buy the most fashionable clothes, the
old hen-pecked grandfathers who have no conception of anything other than a
life of frugality and misery, the grandmothers who have henpecked their men
towards a goal of death and futility.... I think Thoreau stated it best when
he mentioned living lives of quiet desperation. I can live with the pain,
agony, frustration, joys, hunger, fear, etc. of life. But I can't live
without them.
I applaud your efforts to help the homeless in this country. But the
homeless of Japan is not what I am concerned with. There will always be
homeless. What I am really disgusted with isn't the plight of the homeless,
but rather the plight of an entire nation which doesn't value the kindness
required to help those less fortunate.
Eric Takabayashi
> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:25:50 +0900, Eric Takabayashi
> <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>
> >Some Japanese stumble over themselves to do something for foreigners, with
> >apparently nothing in return, not even a free English lesson. Complete
> >strangers hand gifts to my mother when she walks around lost because she
> >doesn't understand Japanese.
>
> I once taught an English class at a community center in a small town
> in Aomori Prefecture. I asked the students why they wanted to learn
> English. The most common answer was that they wanted to be able to
> communicate with and make friends with people (from) around the world.
>
> That's fine.
>
> But you should have seen what happened when I asked them to stand and
> sort of mill about while introducing themselves to each other, either
> in English or Japanese.
>
> You would have thought I had asked them to pluck their eyeballs out,
> such was their reluctance. They wanted to make friends with somebody
> halfway around the world, but they wouldn't say hi to somebody who
> lived in the same little one-horse town with them.
Some dumb fucks spend millions or go into debt over their cars and
accessories, or perhaps their clothes, but won't spend one yen on people
without enough food or clothes for the winter, or even give a single article
of unused or old clothing, or food they don't eat, which would effectively be
their trash. (I read a news item this week, a repeat of the fact that as a
nation, Japan discards more food than they grow or catch for themselves, and
caloric intake is basically unchanged through the decades despite the
abundance of food.)
Today, on the way to check up on the no futon, no food, homeless man living
behind Fukuyama Castle I walked through about a hundred elementary school
students and their teachers sitting and eating lunch on what is perhaps the
finest piece of grass in all of Fukuyama City.
On the way back from feeding the no futon, no food homeless man with groceries
for the second time since last night, I noticed looking over the crowd of well
fed children, that a man I had given towels and a candle to yesterday in front
of the station, was lying on a bench next to his bicycle, oblivious to his
surroundings and also totally ignored. I gave him two anpan out of the bag I
had opened, having eaten one for my lunch, and because he liked the candle I
had given him, I gave him another candle, the last of some I had bought from a
100 store 3 for 1 closeout sale. Unfortunately, he is also unable to cook in
the park in which he lives, and as a matter of fact, is driven off each day
because it is a tourist spot, and thus must loiter downtown.
When I left for work, I walked through the crowd of children again, realizing
that no one had noticed us. I am sure that the two men (among others) would
have been happy to eat what the children had refused.
Fuck them.
Eric Takabayashi
> "Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
> news:3FBE1EDB...@yahoo.co.jp...
>
> > What happened to you Ed? You used to be the guy who argued against the
> > existence of absolute morals. Now you suddenly discover (and care) that
> > "Japanese are not kind"?
>
> I still do. Morality doesn't "exst". It subsists upon intersubjective moral
> values. In other words, intersubjective morality exists because the culture
> exists and the morality "exists" dependent upon the culture. Take the
> culture away and the morality ceases to exist. True existence is not
> dependent upon anything other than existence. Kinda like a tree falling in
> the forest. It makes a noise regardless of no ears to hear it.
>
> But you asked what happened to me. I guess I've just gotten tired of the
> borg cube. The endless procession of stern-faced salarymen going to work,
> the hatchet-faced housewives who have spent their lives hating and refusing
> to believe anything that doesn't agree with their misery, the children who
> grow up with no more incentive than to buy the most fashionable clothes, the
> old hen-pecked grandfathers who have no conception of anything other than a
> life of frugality and misery, the grandmothers who have henpecked their men
> towards a goal of death and futility....
In Nagano, the paradise you've praised?
I don't like such crap in Japan, and here's what I'm doing about it. It is very
simple. Japanese think people can live their own lives, and make their own
choices, and that's just what I am doing. As with their recent change in
attitudes on homeless, eating junk or having university paid for, I am molding
my wife and children to be different from other Japanese people. It will be too
bad if there is some great untapped potential within my children, because I
can't do things for them like pay for violin or ice skating lessons or medical
school, but they are going to learn to be humble and thankful human beings like
my ancestors were, and how I grew up.
> I think Thoreau stated it best when
> he mentioned living lives of quiet desperation. I can live with the pain,
> agony, frustration, joys, hunger, fear, etc. of life. But I can't live
> without them.
I can and do. I piss some people off by telling them how easy my life is, and
pointing out that most of their stress such as that related to their jobs,
husbands and children, are the result of choices they continue to make for
themselves.
After spending time with the homeless I have realized that I (not my family)
would be able to live as a homeless myself. I would also be able to maintain my
caloric intake on perhaps 5,000 yen a month, if I had to spend money at all. I
would of course, be more efficient than any homeless I have seen, by living as
if I were backpacking, not having to carry entire futons or shopping bags full
of crap everywhere I went. I wouldn't be as dirty or smelly as some, either. I
can wash, even in cold water in winter.
It has become a great comfort to know I can lead a very simple life, as it
frees me from the stress many Japanese foolishly put themselves and their
children through. No money for college? The kids can work. No money for a new
house (even if I were willing to tolerate the depreciation)? I'll buy used, and
remodel cheap for cash. No money for retirement? I'll keep on working as long
as I am healthy, even if I have to grow my own food. No money for my medical
expenses if I become seriously ill? Maybe it's simply time for me to die. If my
kids get sick . . .
Oh, speaking of which. There was a young man from the neighboring city of
Onomichi, who needed to go to the US for a heart transplant. His mother and
other supporters used to stand in front of Fukuyama Station with collection
boxes and a small signboard describing their plight.
At the time the president of the support group ran off with the donations, they
had gathered over 64 million yen.
And after the president was arrested, and what little was left over from his
months long spending spree recovered, the family donated it all to other
families raising money for medical procedures, because they could no longer ask
supporters for their trust.
Perhaps this single act condemned their son to certain death. But those donors
and that family demonstrated their kindness.
Reg Blank
> I've been spending hours and a proportion of my salary* hanging out with the
> local homeless. I'd seen a new bunch of homeless there recently, but no one
> even made eye contact with them, despite being in one of the busiest parts of
> the city. They were in such a state, lying on the filthy sand in a playground
> under the pitch dark train tracks, that I could not be one of the people who
> simply walked by. They were happy to receive anything I had to offer, because
> they had nearly nothing. I say were, because just this morning about nine a.m.,
> one group of homeless was cleared out by workers (an elderly couple including a
> woman on crutches was allowed to stay).
Eric,
When the city workers clear out the homeless in your town, do the
homeless get moved to another place? Glad to hear that at least the
elderly couple could stay, right?
A homeless man used to sleep on the lone bench in my neighborhood
playground. He only came to the playground after dark to sleep. He
disappears to somewhere during the day.
After a while...
The city workers came and REMOVED THE ONLY BENCH IN THE PLAYGROUND.
The "homeless person" problem disappeared from our neighborhood.
Reg.
Eric Takabayashi
> Eric Takabayashi wrote:
> > I've been spending hours and a proportion of my salary* hanging out with the
> > local homeless. I'd seen a new bunch of homeless there recently, but no one
> > even made eye contact with them, despite being in one of the busiest parts of
> > the city. They were in such a state, lying on the filthy sand in a playground
> > under the pitch dark train tracks, that I could not be one of the people who
> > simply walked by. They were happy to receive anything I had to offer, because
> > they had nearly nothing. I say were, because just this morning about nine a.m.,
> > one group of homeless was cleared out by workers (an elderly couple including a
> > woman on crutches was allowed to stay).
>
> Eric,
>
> When the city workers clear out the homeless in your town, do the
> homeless get moved to another place?
They find themselves another place. A man I spoke to two nights ago has been in
seven places in two years, I think it was.
My hometown has a similar clever plan to get rid of homeless. Evict them from all
the beach parks so their presence does not offend or intimidate visitors, without
having ANY shelters in place.
> Glad to hear that at least the elderly couple could stay, right?
I wish they would be sheltered, not living in the filth and rainwater under the
train tracks. An elderly woman on crutches should not have to live a life of
collecting cans and sleeping in filth. She's not one of these idiot homeless who
drink One Cup instead of buying food.
I am glad they were able to keep most of their stuff. It looks like the others lost
whatever they couldn't carry on the two bicycles they had between them. The idiot
who got arrested for assaulting another homeless man earlier this week and is
currently in jail probably lost it all, including everything I had given him last
week.
> A homeless man used to sleep on the lone bench in my neighborhood
> playground. He only came to the playground after dark to sleep. He
> disappears to somewhere during the day.
>
> After a while...
>
> The city workers came and REMOVED THE ONLY BENCH IN THE PLAYGROUND.
>
> The "homeless person" problem disappeared from our neighborhood.
That homeless person was not very clever or determined. He can sleep on cardboard or
even bare ground or concrete like other homeless. I have.
In Hiroshima City, at least one park developer was clever enough to install wooden
benches with wooden slats dividing the bench into individual seats, also making it
murder on the neck and back for anyone such as myself who tried to lie down.
Ed
"Reg Blank" <spamb...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
news:bplete$22d9$1...@news.typhoon.co.jp...
I remember when my daughter was just a baby. I took her to the local park
and noticed that the sandbox was filled with garbage. Being a good father
and neighbor, I took all the beer cans, old blankets, and various assorted
garbage in and around the sand box and put it in the park garbage can.
The next day, the garbage can was gone. It was obvious what happened.
Somebody didn't want the garbage can being filled with garbage so they got
rid of the garbage can.
fucking nips!
Eric Takabayashi
> "Reg Blank" <spamb...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
> news:bplete$22d9$1...@news.typhoon.co.jp...
> > Eric,
> >
> > When the city workers clear out the homeless in your town, do the
> > homeless get moved to another place? Glad to hear that at least the
> > elderly couple could stay, right?
> >
> > A homeless man used to sleep on the lone bench in my neighborhood
> > playground. He only came to the playground after dark to sleep. He
> > disappears to somewhere during the day.
> >
> > After a while...
> >
> > The city workers came and REMOVED THE ONLY BENCH IN THE PLAYGROUND.
>
> I remember when my daughter was just a baby. I took her to the local park
> and noticed that the sandbox was filled with garbage. Being a good father
> and neighbor, I took all the beer cans, old blankets, and various assorted
> garbage in and around the sand box and put it in the park garbage can.
>
> The next day, the garbage can was gone. It was obvious what happened.
> Somebody didn't want the garbage can being filled with garbage so they got
> rid of the garbage can.
>
> fucking nips!
Sounds like the Nagano Winter Olympics way of preventing litter and waste.
Did it actually work?
Michael Cash
belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>Eric Takabayashi wrote:
There used a to a homeless guy living under an overpass in Kamifukuoka
City in Saitama.
Have you seen what they're doing now to combat homelessness? They're
installing chain-link fencing around all the underpasses and
pedestrian overpasses.
This particular guy I'm talking about, though, they moved his
substantial collection of stuff aside and fenced in the portion of the
underpass where he was living.
So he moved to another portion of the underpass.
Then they moved his shit again and fenced off that portion.
So he moved to another portion of the underpass. Actually, the best
spot in my opinion. If it had been me, I would have picked it to begin
with.
You guessed it. They moved his shit and fenced off *that* portion.
>
>The "homeless person" problem disappeared from our neighborhood.
Wanna know where the Saitama guy lives now? He and his shit are now on
the sidewalk off the access road that parallels the underpass. He's
still basically at the same place, except now he has nothing over his
head to keep him out of the rain.
Here's one of the ways Yokohama deals with it:
http://www.sunfield.ne.jp/~mike/albums/jfds16/pres/pres01.htm
Brett Robson
I was going to point something that is obvious but I only just realized but I've
been distracted by fucking wilderbeast on the tv (I'm using fucking to mean
having sex not that I hate wilderbeast). It would be really cool if a lion
attacked them while they were fucking. Now we have fighting zebra which is
really funny, like a scag fight.
3:30am, I should go to bed.
Brett Robson
>
Shame Kevin Gowen II isn't here to point out whatever it would be that he would
point. Something about everyone has choices in life.
Brett Robson
>
>Oh, speaking of which. There was a young man from the neighboring city of
>Onomichi, who needed to go to the US for a heart transplant. His mother and
>other supporters used to stand in front of Fukuyama Station with collection
>boxes and a small signboard describing their plight.
>
>At the time the president of the support group ran off with the donations, they
>had gathered over 64 million yen.
>
That is perhaps the most disgusting story I have heard.
mr.sumo snr.
news:bpkv2l$1ro$1...@cobalt01.janis.or.jp...
>.
> Have you ever wondered why there are no homeless shelters or soup kitchens
> in Japan? It's because individual Japanese don't care about anybody but
> themselves. Have you ever wondered why Japanese politicians campaign with
> such inanities like "This is Suzuki Taro! Yes, I am Suzuki Taro! Suzuki
Taro
> I am!" as they rumble through your neighborhood at top volume? It's
because
> they don't know what else to say. They don't have a clue about what
> politicians are supposed to do except take bribes. There is no political
> philosophy in this country because without being required to be kind, they
> are at a loss as to what people in the area might appreciate. I highly
doubt
> any of them have even heard of the notion of a political philosophy, or
have
> contemplated the rationale of governing government.
>
Well there are shelters and soup kitchens - but AFAIK these are run by
Christian organizations such as the always excellent Salvation Army. But of
course - they have a different agenda - one based on giving spiritual as
well as material aid to those in need. It's opening a pretty messy can of
worms to say this, but, Roman Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and Muslim faiths
all have long traditions, and in some cases, doctrines related to charitable
acts. RCs are encouraged to be charitable as a means of redemption, Muslims
are taught to take individual responsibility for the poor, and Protestants
do it as a tax write-off...Mr. Gates....
So am I saying you have to belong to or have been raised with an awareness
of one of the above faiths to be charitable? Or am I saying that Ed is just
getting a bit cranky 'coz he had to break out the kotatsu this week? Happy
St.Cecilia's Day.
--
jonathan
--
"Never martyr a duck"
Louise Bremner
> If you think you've got an example of Japanese kindness, I'd be glad to
> destroy your delusion.
A tiny ray of hope--a boy of about 10 held open the door of the local
Seiyu as an elderly person approached, and didn't look disappointed when
said elderly person walked through without even apparently noticing how
come the door wasn't closed. He still stood patiently holding the door
open as a couple more people barged through without thanking him, so I
made a point of going through after them, and I thanked him. He looked
stunned, so of course it's possible I've gone and killed that impulse
towards random acts of kindness....
________________________________________________________________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!
Ryan Ginstrom
"Michael Cash" <mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote in message
news:20asrvoe5cokat3pb...@4ax.com...
> Ed has done nothing more than say what I've been restraining myself
> from saying for quite some time.
>
> I was thinking today that the shortest book one could possibly write
> would be "The Japanese: A Compendium Of Their Altruistic Acts"
The Okinawans surely do value random acts of kindness. In fact, there is a
"shimashoune"# campaign going on right now, urging people to do just that.
http://www.okinawatimes.co.jp/col/20031027e.html
In the commercials, you see things like some lost middle-aged woman, and a
couple joshikousei tell her "annai shimashoune." Of course, you could be
cynical and say it's just to promote the tourism industry by making people
enjoy their stay, but that kind of kindness is actually commonplace here.
Driving is a good example -- here, people actually go out of their way to
let you into their lane, and you almost never see that "warikomi" action of
things like a car pulling in front of the right-turn lineup, backing up all
the cars behind him as he worms his way into the front of the lineup, which
is several lights long (I mention this because I saw it every day in Japan,
multiple times).
#In Okinawa, "shimashoune" is just a softer way of saying "shiyou." For
instance, when paying your bill at the restaurant the cashier might say
"kochira de onegai shimashoune," or your barber might suggest, "koko, mou
sukoshi kirimashoune."
To be perfectly honest, my main motivation for moving to Okinawa was not the
people. I came here for the weather, the ocean, the skies, the air, and a
quieter pace of life. But there is something about the Okinawan people that
is very endearing. Maybe you could call that quality kindness, or at least
part of it.
Books have been written about how and why Okinawans are so kind, even to
complete strangers, but the net effect is the same.
One thing that really strikes me is how the children are so kind, especially
to children younger than themselves. It's really amazing to me that the kids
could be so well behaved, because they are so spoiled. Behavior is tolerated
of them that would probably get them a red-faced screaming in Japan or the
US, but somehow they all seem to turn out kind, well behaved, and respectful
of adults.
I might have written here about when I first moved to Okinawa, I was walking
my dog, and stopped to let some young children pet it, and they said
"arigatou gozaimashita" after. I was very suprised by that, and upon
reflection, I decided it was because in my years of living on the mainland,
no child had ever said "thank you" to me unless their parents had told them
to first.
Since then I've seen it many times. Children on the street look adults right
in the eye and say "konnichiwa," people hold open doors for old ladies. The
other day, some strong wind must have blown one of our futons of the
balcony. One of our neighbors (we don't know which) must have picked it up,
cleaned it off, and walked around the house (about 100 meters, because of
the fence) and hung it up under our house.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Fabian
ok, one example. I went to buy some cold medicene once, and got given it
for free by the shop keeper. Perhaps he was thanking me for teaching his
kid in teh local shogakko, I dont know. Dont even know if he has a kid.
Seemed genuine enough though.
Raj Feridun
fascinating. From boisterous wiggahs to portly Aussies the prevailing
theme seems to be "we hate Japan and everything Japanese but we
tolerate it because we live here and besides we have a newsgroup where
we can vent all our hatred". Pardon me but what a LOAD of elitist
racist bullshit!
I'm thinking maybe it's a different country you're living in or maybe
it's the fact that I personally try not to characterize entire
societies based on the actions of elements therein. I guess I prefer
to evaluate human beings on an individual basis. Maybe its the fact
that I consider Japanese to BE human beings. Are you guys living in a
DIFFERENT Japan than I am?? Maybe that IS it. I've spent the last 10
years of my life here in Japan but far from the ugly sprawling urban
centers. I live in the relative wilderness of Shikoku.
I realize its probably an exercise in total futility to even try to
get started in a rational debate with racists. But you know, there is
no shortage of ignorant racists nor unKIND individuals back home in
New Jersey, USA either. I don't think Japan's even beginning to win
that contest although I'm not ignorant to the fact that they have
their own ugly bits. Hate and ignorance abound in this world.
Sorry, just getting physically more ill with each post I read in here
I could not contain myself any longer from responding.
Poor me, poor me, pour me ANOTHER ONE, boys! If you hate Japan so much
go THE FUCK HOME!! Stop whining already. There must be something about
the place you like. We all live here and last I checked it wasn't
mandatory to do so. Some of us have even MARRIED Japanese! My favorite
was the guy who was saying he's TRAINING his wife and kids so they
won't act like "regular" Japanese. That and the "Nip" comments are my
faves.
Raj Feridun
Ryan Ginstrom
news:kqmtrv4v3khtihfft...@4ax.com...
> we can vent all our hatred". Pardon me but what a LOAD of elitist
> racist bullshit!
> I've spent the last 10
> years of my life here in Japan but far from the ugly sprawling urban
> centers. I live in the relative wilderness of Shikoku.
You've been here 10 years, and you still think pulling the racist card has
any weight outside the US? You must lead a sheltered existence indeed.
> Sorry, just getting physically more ill with each post I read in here
> I could not contain myself any longer from responding.
The obvious solution would be to stop reading the group. I mean, since
you're so well adjusted and all, why don't you just hang out with your
Shikoku country bumpkin buddies?
> Some of us have even MARRIED Japanese!
Ah, that explains it. That must give you some sort of special insight into
Japan that the rest of us lack.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Darrien
"Ed" <gwb...@whitehouse.com> wrote in message news:bpkv2l$1ro$1...@cobalt01.janis.or.jp...
[snip]
> It's like living on a borg cube.
>
Borg? Cube? Where do I sign up?
Haluk Skywalker
yazdi:kqmtrv4v3khtihfft...@4ax.com...
> I've been lurking in this group for quite some time now and I find it
> fascinating. From boisterous wiggahs to portly Aussies the prevailing
> theme seems to be "we hate Japan and everything Japanese but we
> tolerate it because we live here and besides we have a newsgroup where
> we can vent all our hatred". Pardon me but what a LOAD of elitist
You got the thema wrong. So rest of the message isn't really worth replying
for.
I believe being critical about the society isn't simply racism. I believe we
all criticize our lives in an attempt to make things better. There are all
kinds of opinions in this newsgroup. I've been reading the postings here for
about 6 months now, I have rarely seen any racist shit here -other than
Kaz's remarks, I actually cannot recall any right now.
That may be because I'm racist (you're moderate) and I actually tolerate a
lot of racism propaganda posted here. But that might as well be because you
have a sad life and you are too sensitive (and I'm moderate), looking for a
fascist remark in every posting.
Dick Muhfukkin Bagswing
> The next day, the garbage can was gone. It was obvious what happened.
> Somebody didn't want the garbage can being filled with garbage so they got
> rid of the garbage can.
>
Now,THAT is fucking typical!
Brian
mr.sumo snr.
I'm sorry, but I totally fail to see what relevance your comments have to my
comments about the original post. Please enlighten me.
--
jonathan
--
"Never give a gun to ducks"
Shintaro Ishihara
> Japanese are not kind.
It takes a while to realize when you're good looking, doesn't it?
In fact, it is not so much the act of kindness as general lack of "love"
or "compassion" brought by Christianity. The lack of this particular
religion is one of the reason why the modern philosophy, the concept of
philanthropy, and the development of democracy didn't arrive in Japan
until 20th century. But I'd also like you to know that this doesn't
necessarily mean they lack in profound idea in philosophy, nor explain
the attitude of the Japanese toward Americans in general.
> I'm finished frothing at the mouth for the nonce. Suffice to say, I am no
> longer a big fan of Japan. This place and these people are not worthy of
> being ranked among humankind because they don't know what it means to belong
> to that group known as humankind.
Isn't this too much to say when U.S. Neo-Conservatists are massacring
people all over the world to satisfy their corporate greed and political
ambition? As far as the public is concerned, Americans are just as
guilty of being credulous as their airplanes dropping bombs on wrong
targets.
Regards,
S.I.
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Brett Robson
>
> Are you guys living in a
>DIFFERENT Japan than I am??
That must be it.
Eric Takabayashi
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 01:26:57 +0900, Eric Takabayashi ...
> >
> >Oh, speaking of which. There was a young man from the neighboring city of
> >Onomichi, who needed to go to the US for a heart transplant. His mother and
> >other supporters used to stand in front of Fukuyama Station with collection
> >boxes and a small signboard describing their plight.
> >
> >At the time the president of the support group ran off with the donations, they
> >had gathered over 64 million yen.
>
> That is perhaps the most disgusting story I have heard.
I'm sure you know worse.
I used the incident as an example of kindness of other Japanese, and that family
who was willing to sacrifice themselves and their own interests to help others in
similar need. I wouldn't be able to give up my kids' lives like that to help
others.
Louise Bremner
> Japanese are not kind.
> That's right. They are not kind. It's not that they are unkind, but rather
> that the concept of kindness isn't part of the Japanese psyche. Oh, they
> understand the concept well enough. It's just that they don't see the
> point. Why be kind to a stranger? Why care about somebody because they are
> human, thus deserve kindness?
I've been pondering your post all day... It's just so close to a theory
I postulated some time ago, I wonder if you've hit on the same thing I
did.
My speculation was that everyone is issued a certain amount of
*something* (which I thought of as *politeness* but your *kindness*
seems to fit just as well), and it's up to the individual to use that
*something* has s/he sees fit (different individuals will, of course, be
issued different amounts of this *something*).
In which case, it does make sense to avoid wasting this *something* on
complete strangers--far better to invest it in situations that reap the
best advantage from the individual's point of view....
Or have I drunk too much wine?
Louise Bremner
> Pardon me but what a LOAD of elitist racist bullshit!
Don't hold back--do tell us what you _really_ feel....
Eric Takabayashi
> There used a to a homeless guy living under an overpass in Kamifukuoka
> City in Saitama.
>
> Have you seen what they're doing now to combat homelessness? They're
> installing chain-link fencing around all the underpasses and
> pedestrian overpasses.
Oh, THAT'S what all the "No Trespassing" is for.
> This particular guy I'm talking about, though, they moved his
> substantial collection of stuff aside and fenced in the portion of the
> underpass where he was living.
>
> So he moved to another portion of the underpass.
>
> Then they moved his shit again and fenced off that portion.
>
> So he moved to another portion of the underpass. Actually, the best
> spot in my opinion. If it had been me, I would have picked it to begin
> with.
If I were homeless, I would not live under the dark, dingy, noisy, dusty, musty,
filthy, damp roads or train tracks (except near the river). Numerous places even leak
in the rain. I would live somewhere in the open, like the people I see in public
parks. There is nothing passive that can be done to prevent them from being there. I
would make my simple shelter out of plastic sheeting that can be rolled up and stored
or transported, and keep just one or two neat boxes of stuff stashed neatly behind
the trees or bushes.
Experienced campers, survivalists or ex military could teach homeless how to live
better and more efficiently, while also impacting the environment less. It appears
Japanese homeless do not know the trick of using newspaper to stuff their clothes,
wrap their feet, or cover themselves to keep warm.
If I were healthy enough to walk to places to gather food or things to make money, I
would live far from the center of town, where I would be more likely to be left alone
to make myself a fine house of scraps in a little forest near a source of water. The
homeless houses built for themselves on either bank of the great river, and some
houses in Shinjuku Park, are the finest homeless dwellings I have ever seen, the
interiors looking like ordinary apartments or houses.
> You guessed it. They moved his shit and fenced off *that* portion.
> >
> >The "homeless person" problem disappeared from our neighborhood.
>
> Wanna know where the Saitama guy lives now? He and his shit are now on
> the sidewalk off the access road that parallels the underpass. He's
> still basically at the same place, except now he has nothing over his
> head to keep him out of the rain.
>
> Here's one of the ways Yokohama deals with it:
> http://www.sunfield.ne.jp/~mike/albums/jfds16/pres/pres01.htm
I would dig that up and use the blocks to make a stone walled house with a tarp or
cardboard roof.
Raj Feridun
<gins...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"Raj Feridun" <rfe...@NOSPAMyahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
>news:kqmtrv4v3khtihfft...@4ax.com...
>> we can vent all our hatred". Pardon me but what a LOAD of elitist
>> racist bullshit!
><...>
>> I've spent the last 10
>> years of my life here in Japan but far from the ugly sprawling urban
>> centers. I live in the relative wilderness of Shikoku.
>
>You've been here 10 years, and you still think pulling the racist card has
>any weight outside the US? You must lead a sheltered existence indeed.
No, Ryan, I didn't write that. I said racism is not an exclusively
Japanese trait.
>> Sorry, just getting physically more ill with each post I read in here
>> I could not contain myself any longer from responding.
>The obvious solution would be to stop reading the group. I mean, since
>you're so well adjusted and all, why don't you just hang out with your
>Shikoku country bumpkin buddies?
I considered doing that. In fact I DID cancel my post after about 10
minutes from posting realizing full well that it was futile at that
point. This morning I actually had this group removed from my
subscriptions but this thread just kept eating at me and eating at me.
I know it was weakness to give in to that and I regret my post already
since I think it makes me no better than the racists to get into this
mud at all.
>> Some of us have even MARRIED Japanese!
>Ah, that explains it. That must give you some sort of special insight into
>Japan that the rest of us lack.
Does it? I wasn't hinting at that either. I made that comment because
I was bewildered to read that some of the haters in this thread WERE
in the same mixed marriage boat. I don't think it gives me any special
insight at all. Like I said I just take folks as individuals and try
not to stereotype. It's a simple way that's served me well so far.
Raj
Raj Feridun
<mr_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I'm sorry, but I totally fail to see what relevance your comments have to my
>comments about the original post. Please enlighten me.
Which were your comments?
Raj
Raj Feridun
>On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:47:08 +0900, Raj Feridun ...
>>
>> Are you guys living in a
>>DIFFERENT Japan than I am??
>
>That must be it.
OK, good enough, Brett. Then I apologize completely for my outburst
and offer my condolences for what they are worth. I'm glad I live down
here.
Cheers,
Raj
Eric Takabayashi
> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:19:08 +0900, Eric Takabayashi ...
> >
>
> Shame Kevin Gowen II isn't here to point out whatever it would be that he would
> point. Something about everyone has choices in life.
I meet people like that all the time. They think that a crippled old woman and her
male living mate who spends his days sitting in his futon in a daze - I've only
seen him upright when the workers were clearing the area out - choose to live in a
sand playground smelling of human waste (it is also an illegal dumping ground)
under the leaking train tracks collecting cans out of the trash for 60 yen per
kilogram, instead of working full time for one of the companies in the classifieds
which claim that gender, educational background, and age don't matter when
applying. They miss the point that even younger, university educated people with
years of relevant experience and even local references like my wife don't get
decent jobs.
But only the poor get criticized. Young people overly selective about what they
want to do or how much money they think they need, people with real opportunities
who have no desire to work, people who quit or lose jobs and prefer to live off
welfare a while to enjoy a break, and housewives who may not have children or do
much housework, all of whom have the opportunity to live comfortably off other
people without any particular effort of their own, are not criticized.
Michael Cash
belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>I remember when my daughter was just a baby. I took her to the local park
>and noticed that the sandbox was filled with garbage. Being a good father
>and neighbor, I took all the beer cans, old blankets, and various assorted
>garbage in and around the sand box and put it in the park garbage can.
>
>The next day, the garbage can was gone. It was obvious what happened.
>Somebody didn't want the garbage can being filled with garbage so they got
>rid of the garbage can.
>
>fucking nips!
http://www.sunfield.ne.jp/~mike/albums/jfds14/pres/pres11.htm
Raj Feridun
ladies were present.
Raj
Eric Takabayashi
> Poor me, poor me, pour me ANOTHER ONE, boys! If you hate Japan so much
> go THE FUCK HOME!!
Going home won't change anything. More people doing something about the problems
will.
> Stop whining already.
Yes, it is much better to be apathetic or critical of those less fortunate, like
most Japanese I have ever known, who are the problem to begin with.
> There must be something about the place you like.
Convenience and the easiest job I have ever had, with lots of free time. Also no
President Bush or American level of income tax.
> We all live here and last I checked it wasn't
> mandatory to do so. Some of us have even MARRIED Japanese! My favorite
> was the guy who was saying he's TRAINING his wife and kids so they
> won't act like "regular" Japanese. That and the "Nip" comments are my
> faves.
That is correct. I am raising my kids not to be like many materialistic, stress
laden, apathetic, selfish Japanese, and I am getting my wife's cooperation.
Eric Takabayashi
> "Raj Feridun" <rfe...@NOSPAMyahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
> news:kqmtrv4v3khtihfft...@4ax.com...
> > we can vent all our hatred". Pardon me but what a LOAD of elitist
> > racist bullshit!
> <...>
> > I've spent the last 10
> > years of my life here in Japan but far from the ugly sprawling urban
> > centers. I live in the relative wilderness of Shikoku.
>
> You've been here 10 years, and you still think pulling the racist card has
> any weight outside the US? You must lead a sheltered existence indeed.
Or he's gone native, like ordinary Japanese who don't notice, care or act,
unwilling to do something as simple as voting for reformists this month or
giving their "trash" to the poor.
> > Sorry, just getting physically more ill with each post I read in here
> > I could not contain myself any longer from responding.
>
> The obvious solution would be to stop reading the group. I mean, since
> you're so well adjusted and all, why don't you just hang out with your
> Shikoku country bumpkin buddies?
He gets physically ill at the reactions of people who would like Japan to
change for the better, but does not care about doing anything about the
problem itself.
Like so many defensive Japanese in denial I have met.
> > Some of us have even MARRIED Japanese!
>
> Ah, that explains it. That must give you some sort of special insight into
> Japan that the rest of us lack.
He thinks marrying Japanese has something to do with Japan itself, or how
much we love it or not.
Raj Feridun
<eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>> Stop whining already.
>Yes, it is much better to be apathetic or critical of those less fortunate, like
>most Japanese I have ever known, who are the problem to begin with.
What do you mean exactly? Let's talk about the homeless, for example,
since this seems to be your personal crusade here:
I grew up in New Jersey and as an adult lived for quite a few years in
New York City. There is NO PLACE more apathetic to the less fortunate
that I've ever been. Homeless people are like lampposts. They don't
warrant a second glance. Yes, there are more homeless shelters and
soup kitchens in New York City but then there are a hell of a lot more
homeless people too. How is apathy and criticism of those less
fortunate a distinctly Japanese trait??
>> We all live here and last I checked it wasn't
>> mandatory to do so. Some of us have even MARRIED Japanese! My favorite
>> was the guy who was saying he's TRAINING his wife and kids so they
>> won't act like "regular" Japanese. That and the "Nip" comments are my
>> faves.
>That is correct. I am raising my kids not to be like many materialistic, stress
>laden, apathetic, selfish Japanese, and I am getting my wife's cooperation.
If you replaced "Japanese" with people in this last bit I would agree
with your statement AND your effort 100%.
Raj
Eric Takabayashi
> > I'm finished frothing at the mouth for the nonce. Suffice to say, I am no
> > longer a big fan of Japan. This place and these people are not worthy of
> > being ranked among humankind because they don't know what it means to belong
> > to that group known as humankind.
>
> Isn't this too much to say when U.S. Neo-Conservatists are massacring
> people all over the world to satisfy their corporate greed and political
> ambition? As far as the public is concerned, Americans are just as
> guilty of being credulous as their airplanes dropping bombs on wrong
> targets.
Which is why much of the antagonism faced by Americans (not the violence) is
understandable, and why I have given up attempting to defend America's history or
politics, openly critical of Iraq policy myself.
But we are addressing problems of Japan, not the US.
Ed
" Louise Bremner" <dame_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1g4tkh8.1ea3q24mougjaN%dame_...@yahoo.com...
> Ed <gwb...@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>
> > If you think you've got an example of Japanese kindness, I'd be glad to
> > destroy your delusion.
>
> A tiny ray of hope--a boy of about 10 held open the door of the local
> Seiyu as an elderly person approached, and didn't look disappointed when
> said elderly person walked through without even apparently noticing how
> come the door wasn't closed. He still stood patiently holding the door
> open as a couple more people barged through without thanking him, so I
> made a point of going through after them, and I thanked him. He looked
> stunned, so of course it's possible I've gone and killed that impulse
> towards random acts of kindness....
I hold the door open for ladies (the guys can open the door themselves) and
am always thanked. I wonder where
Ed
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 14:00:48 +0900, "Ryan Ginstrom"
> I was bewildered to read that some of the haters in this thread WERE
> in the same mixed marriage boat. I don't think it gives me any special
> insight at all. Like I said I just take folks as individuals and try
> not to stereotype. It's a simple way that's served me well so far.
Like Michael said, there is a glass of water we are given when we first
arrive in Japan. After awhile, that glass of water consists of nothing more
than a few drops of rancid backwash. By that time, getting out of Japan is
not really an option. I'm stuck here until my children are old enough to
understand that daddy hates this place and he isn't leaving because he
doesn't love them. I can't leave because I have children in a mixed marriage
and they will probably do better for themselves in this country than in my
home country.
When they're old enough, I'm outta here.
Eric Takabayashi
> I just take folks as individuals and try not to stereotype. It's a simple
> way that's served me well so far.
Very well then. It would be safe to say that 99% of Japanese INDIVIDUALS are
not helping the poor, and 100% of any INDIVIDUALS before me, had not provided
much of what I did, because about half didn't have things like candles,
toothbrushes, combs, razors, towels, or winter socks. And 100% of INDIVIDUAL
local public officials are not helping the homeless, because there is no
shelter for them despite winter approaching.
I'd also like you to point out what is "Japan" hating about my post, which I
spare people of other nations and nationalities.
Raj Feridun
<eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>Or he's gone native, like ordinary Japanese who don't notice, care or act,
>unwilling to do something as simple as voting for reformists this month or
>giving their "trash" to the poor.
I'm a U.S. citizen. I live here on a standard 3 year recycled
日本人の配偶者 visa so I cannot vote. I'm not even a permanent
resident technically speaking. I'm for positive change. I never said I
wasn't. I think giving secondhand items to the needy is an excellent
idea.
Again, I'm not saying bad policies/people don't exist in Japan.
>> > Sorry, just getting physically more ill with each post I read in here
>> > I could not contain myself any longer from responding.
>>
>> The obvious solution would be to stop reading the group. I mean, since
>> you're so well adjusted and all, why don't you just hang out with your
>> Shikoku country bumpkin buddies?
>He gets physically ill at the reactions of people who would like Japan to
>change for the better, but does not care about doing anything about the
>problem itself.
Reread this thread in its entirety, Eric then come back here. OK, all
done?? Now do you HONESTLY think that what was posted up until I
jumped in was an intelligent discourse on how to change Japan for the
better? Or was it perhaps more like elitist ranting and patting each
other on the back about how Japan and the Japanese are unkind,
uncaring assholes and WE'RE so much better? My position is it was the
latter which is why I let my big mouth finally flap free.
>> Ah, that explains it. That must give you some sort of special insight into
>> Japan that the rest of us lack.
>He thinks marrying Japanese has something to do with Japan itself, or how
>much we love it or not.
No, I do not and I resent this characterization of a person you don't
even know. Then again, I'm just guessing here but I'd say you probably
don't know all the 127,435,000 Japanese you so eagerly label as a
single unkind entity either.
Raj
Michael Cash
with:
>I've been lurking in this group for quite some time now and I find it
>fascinating. From boisterous wiggahs to portly Aussies the prevailing
>theme seems to be "we hate Japan and everything Japanese but we
>tolerate it because we live here and besides we have a newsgroup where
>we can vent all our hatred". Pardon me but what a LOAD of elitist
>racist bullshit!
So being able to recognize some objectionable traits of the country
and its people, and having the temerity to give voice to them counts
as racism? Is it your position that any negative comment on Japan/ese
must come from the Japanese themselves and that others should hold
their tongues? It strikes me that *that* position more strongly smacks
of elitist racist bullshit than anything we may engage in.
>
>I'm thinking maybe it's a different country you're living in or maybe
>it's the fact that I personally try not to characterize entire
>societies based on the actions of elements therein. I guess I prefer
>to evaluate human beings on an individual basis.
Yes, you must be the only person who does so. This sort of conflicts
with your "boisterous wiggahs" and "portly Aussies" comment above, but
since those comments were (presumably) made about white people,
they're okay.
>Maybe its the fact
>that I consider Japanese to BE human beings.
Again, that makes you unique. None of the rest of us consider them to
be human beings. I had never noticed that before, and I can think of
no comment we have made which would give cause anyone to think so. But
if you say so, it must be true.
>Are you guys living in a
>DIFFERENT Japan than I am?? Maybe that IS it.
We *all* live in different Japans. They only intersect in the physical
dimension.
>I've spent the last 10 years of my life here in Japan
There is no need to apologize for the lateness of your arrival. I am
sure you got here just as soon as you could.
>but far from the ugly sprawling urban
>centers. I live in the relative wilderness of Shikoku.
And I live in the relative boonies of Gunma, but due to my work spend
half my day out here in the sticks and half my day in the "ugly
sprawling urban center" of Tokyo/Yokohama.
That's awfully unfair, insensitive, and ELITIST of you to be so
dismissive of sprawling urban centers, don't you think? If they are
good enough for the Japanese who live in them, the Japanese who are
human beings, by the way, then who are you to find fault with it? Why
are you so dismissive of those urban areas and the Japanese human
beings who live in them? I thought you viewed everyone on an
individual basis, and yet you make dismissive, elitist comments on
their choice of habitat.
>
>I realize its probably an exercise in total futility to even try to
>get started in a rational debate with racists.
I agree. It *is* an exercise in futility to attempt rational debate
with racists. In this case, though, exactly *who* are the racists you
refer to? As far as I can tell, the "racists" you take exception to
tend to be people who have violated their deeply held irrational
racist principles by intermarrying with Japanese, whom we consider not
even to be human beings.
>But you know, there is
>no shortage of ignorant racists nor unKIND individuals back home in
>New Jersey, USA either.
I used to have to go to New Jersey in the course of my work, and I
also had a highly unfavorable opinion of the place. It looks as though
we have found a common ground upon which we can begin a productive
dialog.
>I don't think Japan's even beginning to win
>that contest although I'm not ignorant to the fact that they have
>their own ugly bits. Hate and ignorance abound in this world.
And you seem not to have been exempted from the task of toting around
your fair share of the load.
>
>Sorry, just getting physically more ill with each post I read in here
>I could not contain myself any longer from responding.
Please don't feel a need to restrain yourself. I am sure we well all
enjoy reading your thoughts and may even benefit from them.
>
>Poor me, poor me, pour me ANOTHER ONE, boys! If you hate Japan so much
>go THE FUCK HOME!! Stop whining already.
Japan! Love it or leave it!
Sounds like a bumper sticker, don't it?
If you have really been lurking on this group for quite a while, then
surely you must be aware that this is one of those very rare times
when we actually approach being on-topic. We very seldom discuss the
place at all. In fact, over the years we have gotten far more grief
from people who wander into and then quickly out of the group for
*not* talking about Japan/ese more than we do. We've not lost any
sleep over not having pleased those people, and I doubt that we'll
lose any over not having pleased you either.
What? You live in Japan-Wonderland down there in Shikoku and there is
*nothing* negative or worthy of an occasional spleen-venting? Or do
you just strictly follow your own policy of non-Japanese having no
right to give voice to the negative?
>There must be something about the place you like.
There are lots of things I like about the place. Am I constrained to
mentioning only those things?
>We all live here
Actually, we don't all live here.
>and last I checked it wasn't
>mandatory to do so. Some of us have even MARRIED Japanese!
You want a prize or something? Here's a hint for ya: a lot of the ones
you are complaining about here are also married to Japanese. The main
one you seem to be taking offense to and labeling "racist" is in fact
himself 100% racially indistinguishable from native-born Japanese,
though he himself is a re-import from Hawaii.
>My favorite
>was the guy who was saying he's TRAINING his wife and kids so they
>won't act like "regular" Japanese.
See above.
Eric Takabayashi
> Brett Robson <jet...@deja.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:47:08 +0900, Raj Feridun ...
> >>
> >> Are you guys living in a
> >>DIFFERENT Japan than I am??
> >
> >That must be it.
>
> OK, good enough, Brett. Then I apologize completely for my outburst
> and offer my condolences for what they are worth. I'm glad I live down
> here.
Yes, because moving away, or out of the country, as some people have told
me to do whenever I bring up problems in Japan, are also ways of
conveniently avoiding doing something about the problem itself, thinking
of them as someone else's problem.
This is why Japan can simply wring their hands worrying about the
potential danger to Japanese personnel and do nothing physical about
restoring or stabilizing Iraq while tens of Americans and other
foreigners die, while demanding the UN and world do something about North
Korea, the abductions, nuclear program, and missiles right away.
Michael Cash
><blush> I'm sorry for the foul language, Ms. Bremner. I had no idea
>ladies were present.
How very sexist of you.
Eric Takabayashi
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:16:34 +0900, Eric Takabayashi
> <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>
> >> Stop whining already.
>
> >Yes, it is much better to be apathetic or critical of those less fortunate, like
> >most Japanese I have ever known, who are the problem to begin with.
>
> What do you mean exactly? Let's talk about the homeless, for example,
> since this seems to be your personal crusade here:
>
> I grew up in New Jersey and as an adult lived for quite a few years in
> New York City. There is NO PLACE more apathetic to the less fortunate
> that I've ever been.
I don't agree with that assessment (show me the Japanese equivalent of the Food
Banks, Second Harvest, homeless shelters, soup kitchens, etc., because I'd like to
help them out here instead of trying to do something much less effective on my own
with only my family's money), but you're right. Homelessness is a much more serious
problem in the US, with up to three million by some estimates to Japan's claimed
25,000, and 15% of the entire population in poverty, to Japan's three or four
percent. It is obscene that there are such problems, on such a scale, in the
richest, most powerful nation on earth.
But we are talking about problems in Japan. Don't forget, like many Japanese do,
when the subject comes up.
> Homeless people are like lampposts. They don't
> warrant a second glance. Yes, there are more homeless shelters and
> soup kitchens in New York City but then there are a hell of a lot more
> homeless people too. How is apathy and criticism of those less
> fortunate a distinctly Japanese trait??
Who said it was? You have not been lurking long if you don't know about my posts.
> >> We all live here and last I checked it wasn't
> >> mandatory to do so. Some of us have even MARRIED Japanese! My favorite
> >> was the guy who was saying he's TRAINING his wife and kids so they
> >> won't act like "regular" Japanese. That and the "Nip" comments are my
> >> faves.
>
> >That is correct. I am raising my kids not to be like many materialistic, stress
> >laden, apathetic, selfish Japanese, and I am getting my wife's cooperation.
>
> If you replaced "Japanese" with people in this last bit I would agree
> with your statement AND your effort 100%.
Sorry, I don't know many "people" in Japan, because literally about 99% of people I
have ever met since arriving ten years ago are Japanese. And to generalize, no,
people back home are certainly not like Japanese. My home community was ravaged by a
hurricane crippling the travel industry which supported half of the economy for
about eight years, and also rendering a significant portion, maybe a quarter to a
third of the entire population, immediately homeless. Despite the widespread
suffering and hardship, the community pulled together like few can imagine. We
didn't have tent cities like after Hurricane Andrew. We didn't have cities of
temporary housing which stood for years like after the Hanshin Earthquake. No, with
the assistance of the government and the kindness of people from around the nation
and the world, my community put themselves back together and took care of each
other, even opening their homes to others. The resort industry in my community now
leads the entire state, and we also achieved the lowest unemployment figures.
My home community also has no homeless shelter and I disagree with the homeless
policy of the new mayor.
But ask me if homeless back home live like the ones I see.
Raj Feridun
wrote:
That's so horrible, Ed! If you really hate this place SO much how can
you possibly think it a better place for your kids??! I DO agree about
how it's harder and harder to leave the longer you stay. This too is
my experience. I originally came here 10 years with a plan to stay
only 2 years.
But I'm not in the same program as you and Michael are apparently. I
don't get the glass analogy at all. I don't feel like a prisoner. I'm
staying by choice and I enjoy my life here. Yes, I miss my home too
and that's hard.
>When they're old enough, I'm outta here.
OK, fair enough. As for myself I hope when I do "escape" home again I
will do it WITH my family.
Raj
Raj Feridun
Why limit yourself? ;-) I think we maybe we DON'T disagree after all,
Eric. Ignorance, hatred, apathy and criticism of the less fortunate,
avarice and greed are all HUMAN traits and we humans come in all
shapes, sizes and races.
Raj
Ed
> I've been lurking in this group for quite some time now and I find it
> fascinating. From boisterous wiggahs to portly Aussies the prevailing
> theme seems to be "we hate Japan and everything Japanese but we
> tolerate it because we live here and besides we have a newsgroup where
> we can vent all our hatred". Pardon me but what a LOAD of elitist
> racist bullshit!
I don't hate Japan. I simply dislike living here. If I were living in
bumfucked Oklahoma, I'd still like Japan. I just wouldn't want to live here.
This is called "acceptance". I accept Japan for what it is. Accepting it and
enjoying the time I spend here are two different things. The girls are cute
and wiggly, the guys stay out of my way and these are good things. For
visiting, Japan is a wonderful country. For living here, it has its
drawbacks.
> I'm thinking maybe it's a different country you're living in or maybe
> it's the fact that I personally try not to characterize entire
> societies based on the actions of elements therein. I guess I prefer
> to evaluate human beings on an individual basis. Maybe its the fact
> that I consider Japanese to BE human beings. Are you guys living in a
> DIFFERENT Japan than I am?? Maybe that IS it. I've spent the last 10
> years of my life here in Japan but far from the ugly sprawling urban
> centers. I live in the relative wilderness of Shikoku.
You are more than welcome to evaluate human beings on an individual basis.
If I were evaluating human beings, I would also use the individual basis
process. There are also times when some might like to evaluate groups of
individuals on a group basis.
> I realize its probably an exercise in total futility to even try to
> get started in a rational debate with racists. But you know, there is
> no shortage of ignorant racists nor unKIND individuals back home in
> New Jersey, USA either. I don't think Japan's even beginning to win
> that contest although I'm not ignorant to the fact that they have
> their own ugly bits. Hate and ignorance abound in this world.
I'd agree.
> Sorry, just getting physically more ill with each post I read in here
> I could not contain myself any longer from responding.
You might want to keep a puke bucket labeled "FJLIJ" handy.
> Poor me, poor me, pour me ANOTHER ONE, boys! If you hate Japan so much
> go THE FUCK HOME!! Stop whining already. There must be something about
> the place you like. We all live here and last I checked it wasn't
> mandatory to do so. Some of us have even MARRIED Japanese! My favorite
> was the guy who was saying he's TRAINING his wife and kids so they
> won't act like "regular" Japanese. That and the "Nip" comments are my
> faves.
Why should I stop whining? I haven't mentioned anything about "poor me". I
have dealt with a lot of assholes in my time. I find that my previous
dealings have helped me tremendously in my current situation.
Raj Feridun
<eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>Raj Feridun wrote:
>> I just take folks as individuals and try not to stereotype. It's a simple
>> way that's served me well so far.
>Very well then. It would be safe to say that 99% of Japanese INDIVIDUALS are
>not helping the poor, and 100% of any INDIVIDUALS before me, had not provided
>much of what I did, because about half didn't have things like candles,
>toothbrushes, combs, razors, towels, or winter socks. And 100% of INDIVIDUAL
>local public officials are not helping the homeless, because there is no
>shelter for them despite winter approaching.
I applaud your efforts at helping the homeless. I think your actions
are inspirational.
>I'd also like you to point out what is "Japan" hating about my post, which I
>spare people of other nations and nationalities.
It's the broad generalizations, Eric. The 99% thing is a good example.
I have never seen a homeless person in the city I reside in down here
not that they don't exist. I'm certain they do. Japanese people I know
DO help each other though and ARE giving and even (drumroll, please)
KIND AND CARING!
But when you say you're the first person to ever offer help, kindness
and assistance to the homeless in the history of modern Japan pardon
me if I say I just don't believe it. Incidentally I take it these
homeless individuals you help are Japanese, right?? Does their
homeless status somehow exempt them from the unkind, ignorant
characterization of their brethren?
Raj
Eric Takabayashi
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:22:29 +0900, Eric Takabayashi
> <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>
> >Or he's gone native, like ordinary Japanese who don't notice, care or act,
> >unwilling to do something as simple as voting for reformists this month or
> >giving their "trash" to the poor.
>
> I'm a U.S. citizen. I live here on a standard 3 year recycled
> 日本人の配偶者 visa so I cannot vote.
You can be a tourist or illegal alien, and do what I am trying to do.
> Reread this thread in its entirety, Eric then come back here. OK, all
> done?? Now do you HONESTLY think that what was posted up until I
> jumped in was an intelligent discourse on how to change Japan for the
> better?
Why don't you read where I and numerous other posters asked Ed what was wrong
with him or what had happened during his long absence, precisely because we
noticed?
> Or was it perhaps more like elitist ranting
What is elitist about it? I've bitched out most posters for their apathy or
views on issues such as the plight of the less fortunate in the past as well.
> and patting each
> other on the back about how Japan and the Japanese are unkind,
> uncaring assholes and WE'RE so much better?
No, I am not putting myself up as better. Regulars know about me and things I
have done, and I'm still going to hell according to numerous religious views.
I'm just using my lowly lifestyle as an example of how and why people who have
so much more than I and my family do, such as money ready for their children's
private education and university or grad or medical school, new houses in the
city, a comfortable retirement at the age of 60 or even less, numerous shopping
trips abroad, deliberately living without work, and other extravagances that the
middle class of the last generation never knew, can damn well afford to do even
a little (such as ten yen per person per month or donating their "trash") about
the problem with their own country themselves. And considering homeless in Japan
are only about 1/5000 of the population, it is such a relatively small problem
(as opposed to America's up to three million) that it would be so easy to do
something about. Five million yen a month in Fukuyama out of the 500,000 area
residents for the claimed 80 homeless could eliminate the problem entirely,
providing housing and useful jobs.
> My position is it was the latter which is why I let my big mouth finally flap
> free.
Doing something is better than doing nothing, and it cannot even start if people
know or feel nothing, much less be so dead set against doing anything. Unique
among Japanese? No, I see it in this group. But we are talking about Japan.
> >> Ah, that explains it. That must give you some sort of special insight into
> >> Japan that the rest of us lack.
>
> >He thinks marrying Japanese has something to do with Japan itself, or how
> >much we love it or not.
>
> No, I do not and I resent this characterization of a person you don't
> even know.
So what do you think marrying a Japanese means, and why do you link it to
feelings toward Japan or living in it?
> Then again, I'm just guessing here but I'd say you probably
> don't know all the 127,435,000 Japanese you so eagerly label as a
> single unkind entity either.
I don't need to meet them, to see what they obviously and factually don't do. It
was you pointing out that homeless shelters and soup kitchens do not exist here
like back home. My home community does not have any homeless shelter, it is
true. But the local food bank helps a full sixth of the entire population to
help those in need. That's money and food straight from people's pockets, by
choice, not by law from taxes. Can you say such of Japan and its homeless or
poor?
Why don't you speak to some of your kind and generous Japanese friends to see
what they think and do about homeless or the poor, or meet and listen to some
homeless yourself?
Eric Takabayashi
> >But we are addressing problems of Japan, not the US.
>
> Why limit yourself? ;-)
I don't.
> I think we maybe we DON'T disagree after all,
> Eric. Ignorance, hatred, apathy and criticism of the less fortunate,
> avarice and greed are all HUMAN traits and we humans come in all
> shapes, sizes and races.
Right.
So what of it around you in Japan, and what should be done about it?
Raj Feridun
<mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote:
>So being able to recognize some objectionable traits of the country
>and its people, and having the temerity to give voice to them counts
>as racism? Is it your position that any negative comment on Japan/ese
>must come from the Japanese themselves and that others should hold
>their tongues?
No, my position for the Nth time is that racism is not an evil
exclusive to the Japanese. I denounce all racists of any
race/creed/culture.
> It strikes me that *that* position more strongly smacks
>of elitist racist bullshit than anything we may engage in.
Except that I don't hold that position.
>>I'm thinking maybe it's a different country you're living in or maybe
>>it's the fact that I personally try not to characterize entire
>>societies based on the actions of elements therein. I guess I prefer
>>to evaluate human beings on an individual basis.
>Yes, you must be the only person who does so. This sort of conflicts
>with your "boisterous wiggahs" and "portly Aussies" comment above, but
>since those comments were (presumably) made about white people,
>they're okay.
I regret those comments already. I'm human too and I should not write
when my mind is as clouded with anger as it was when I made those
foolish remarks. The portly thing was from pictures I saw on one of
the URLs I saw in someone's post with captions bearing the names of
posters here. As for wiggah I regret that I did not use the more
politically-correct White Afro-centric instead.
>>Maybe its the fact
>>that I consider Japanese to BE human beings.
>Again, that makes you unique. None of the rest of us consider them to
>be human beings. I had never noticed that before, and I can think of
>no comment we have made which would give cause anyone to think so. But
>if you say so, it must be true.
You're entitled to your racist opinion.
>>but far from the ugly sprawling urban
>>centers. I live in the relative wilderness of Shikoku.
>
>And I live in the relative boonies of Gunma, but due to my work spend
>half my day out here in the sticks and half my day in the "ugly
>sprawling urban center" of Tokyo/Yokohama.
>
>That's awfully unfair, insensitive, and ELITIST of you to be so
>dismissive of sprawling urban centers, don't you think? If they are
>good enough for the Japanese who live in them, the Japanese who are
>human beings, by the way, then who are you to find fault with it? Why
>are you so dismissive of those urban areas and the Japanese human
>beings who live in them? I thought you viewed everyone on an
>individual basis, and yet you make dismissive, elitist comments on
>their choice of habitat.
But I didn't dismiss them, Michael. I only said that I live far away
from them. I suggested that perhaps the locale was the reason you're
in a horrible version of Japan and I'm not sharing that experience.
That said, on the few occasions I have visited Tokyo I was very glad I
didn't live there.
>>I realize its probably an exercise in total futility to even try to
>>get started in a rational debate with racists.
>I agree. It *is* an exercise in futility to attempt rational debate
>with racists. In this case, though, exactly *who* are the racists you
>refer to? As far as I can tell, the "racists" you take exception to
>tend to be people who have violated their deeply held irrational
>racist principles by intermarrying with Japanese, whom we consider not
>even to be human beings.
Are you married to a Japanese person or is that the Royal "we"? I had
to assume that any of the glad-handing gaijin racists posting in this
thread who ARE married to Japanese somehow granted them IMMUNITY from
non-human status very similar to the immunity Eric Takabayashi seems
to grant homeless Japanese from unkind ignorance. Either that or
indeed they violated their racist principles. Or maybe it's just a
case of "hey, I'll slap the original racist FIVE and then I'll be
accepted and cool too". They may not even believe in it. But it's good
to be on the winning team.
Hey, I knew when I posted I was gonna get mass tackled like noone's
business, Michael. I didn't see much evidence of a dissenting opinion
in the thread before I piped up.
>I used to have to go to New Jersey in the course of my work, and I
>also had a highly unfavorable opinion of the place. It looks as though
>we have found a common ground upon which we can begin a productive
>dialog.
Where are you from so I can say I hate it if I do?
>>I don't think Japan's even beginning to win
>>that contest although I'm not ignorant to the fact that they have
>>their own ugly bits. Hate and ignorance abound in this world.
>And you seem not to have been exempted from the task of toting around
>your fair share of the load.
Looks can be deceiving.
>Please don't feel a need to restrain yourself. I am sure we well all
>enjoy reading your thoughts and may even benefit from them.
Thank you.
>If you have really been lurking on this group for quite a while, then
>surely you must be aware that this is one of those very rare times
>when we actually approach being on-topic. We very seldom discuss the
>place at all. In fact, over the years we have gotten far more grief
>from people who wander into and then quickly out of the group for
>*not* talking about Japan/ese more than we do. We've not lost any
>sleep over not having pleased those people, and I doubt that we'll
>lose any over not having pleased you either.
I wouldn't mind one bit if you never started talking about this again.
But then you don't much care about how I feel so we're even.
>What? You live in Japan-Wonderland down there in Shikoku and there is
>*nothing* negative or worthy of an occasional spleen-venting? Or do
>you just strictly follow your own policy of non-Japanese having no
>right to give voice to the negative?
I often fantasize about firing rocket-propelled grenades into those
big black UYOKU buses with the rising sun flags and that bad blaring
music. What does that say about me??!
Again, I never said there was NOTHING negative or worthy of venting.
It was the elitist group glad-handing thing that pissed me off.
>There are lots of things I like about the place. Am I constrained to
>mentioning only those things?
No, but have you EVER mentioned them in here?
>>We all live here
>Actually, we don't all live here.
Thank you for the correction.
>>and last I checked it wasn't
>>mandatory to do so. Some of us have even MARRIED Japanese!
>You want a prize or something? Here's a hint for ya: a lot of the ones
>you are complaining about here are also married to Japanese. The main
>one you seem to be taking offense to and labeling "racist" is in fact
>himself 100% racially indistinguishable from native-born Japanese,
>though he himself is a re-import from Hawaii.
No prize necessary, thanks.
Does hating your own race for whatever reason make you any less of a
racist? If so good point.
Raj
Raj Feridun
Thank you.
Raj Feridun
<eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>Raj Feridun wrote:
>> >But we are addressing problems of Japan, not the US.
>> Why limit yourself? ;-)
>I don't.
Sorry I must have missed your comments on other haters in here. Oh I
forgot, this is FJ.I.HATE.JAPAN.
>> I think we maybe we DON'T disagree after all,
>> Eric. Ignorance, hatred, apathy and criticism of the less fortunate,
>> avarice and greed are all HUMAN traits and we humans come in all
>> shapes, sizes and races.
>Right.
>So what of it around you in Japan, and what should be done about it?
The exact same thing that should be done about it in Mississippi, USA
or Johannesburg, South Africa. It should be fought against and
eradicated. But that's a pipe dream. It's a human trait. Look that
Arabs and the Jews and the Serbs and Bosnians and the Russians and the
Chechyans and The Hutu and the Tutsi. I really don't have much hope of
hatred and ignorance ever being done away with. Call me a pessimist.
Raj Feridun
<eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>So what do you think marrying a Japanese means, and why do you link it to
>feelings toward Japan or living in it?
I don't link it. I just wondered how people who people could marry
someone who they don't consider human.
>> Then again, I'm just guessing here but I'd say you probably
>> don't know all the 127,435,000 Japanese you so eagerly label as a
>> single unkind entity either.
>
>I don't need to meet them, to see what they obviously and factually don't do. It
>was you pointing out that homeless shelters and soup kitchens do not exist here
>like back home. My home community does not have any homeless shelter, it is
>true. But the local food bank helps a full sixth of the entire population to
>help those in need. That's money and food straight from people's pockets, by
>choice, not by law from taxes. Can you say such of Japan and its homeless or
>poor?
No, I can't. I wouldn't be so foolish as to defend the Japanese
government or their attitudes towards the homeless which I believe you
when you say they stink. That I can handle. Saying 100% of Japanese
citizens are unwilling to help either I disagree with.
>Why don't you speak to some of your kind and generous Japanese friends to see
>what they think and do about homeless or the poor, or meet and listen to some
>homeless yourself?
I guess it's not as much of a problem down here as it is in the big
cities. Either that or they're hiding them well or maybe they're in
shelters. Or maybe the people ARE helping each other. I'll tell you
what I WILL check out the local situation and I will get an answer to
your question too. Maybe it will be a learning experience for both of
us.
Raj
Dick Muhfukkin Bagswing
> >Yes, you must be the only person who does so. This sort of conflicts
> >with your "boisterous wiggahs" and "portly Aussies" comment above, but
> >since those comments were (presumably) made about white people,
> >they're okay.
If there are wiggers here then fuck this place.
Brian
Eric Takabayashi
> Are you married to a Japanese person or is that the Royal "we"? I had
> to assume that any of the glad-handing gaijin racists posting in this
> thread who ARE married to Japanese somehow granted them IMMUNITY from
> non-human status very similar to the immunity Eric Takabayashi seems
> to grant homeless Japanese from unkind ignorance.
Read my own complaints about the homeless and their unkindness or
ignorance, some of which are contained in the posts in question. Even
without jobs, homes, or money, they do not need to be that miserable. But
I don't hold that against them when I see people on the ground in the cold
or obviously without food.
> Again, I never said there was NOTHING negative or worthy of venting. It
was the elitist group glad-handing thing that pissed me off.
What elitist group?
> >There are lots of things I like about the place. Am I constrained to
> >mentioning only those things?
>
> No, but have you EVER mentioned them in here?
We have Japanese and short term visitors to spread the good news about
Japan, even absolute lies about how it is the safest country in the world
where x never happens, etc. I believed it myself until I actually lived in
Japan myself, because again, the WORST I ever heard about Japan from my
university professors during the four years I studied about Japan and
Japanese was, cities are dirty. Did they tell me about social or
environmental issues, even things as obvious as the status of women? Did
they mention historical or political problems, even something as obvious
as actions in WWII?
No they did not.
But try to inform people of the truth, such as what happens in Japanese
schools, what happens to people of the discriminated districts, or what
goes on in Japanese media vis a vis foreigners, and get branded a racist.
> Does hating your own race for whatever reason make you any less of a
racist? If so good point.
And who would this be? It is modern Japanese, particularly the young, who
blithely cast aside their traditions and history to emulate the West, from
language and mannerisms, down to actual physical appearance through use of
clothes, tans, hair dyes or go as far as undergoing surgery, not to
mention openly desiring or trying to get out of the entire country
forever, who hate their nation or their race.
Eric Takabayashi
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 22:01:34 +0900, Eric Takabayashi
> <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>
> >Raj Feridun wrote:
>
> >> >But we are addressing problems of Japan, not the US.
>
> >> Why limit yourself? ;-)
>
> >I don't.
>
> Sorry I must have missed your comments on other haters in here.
Read me for the past seven years.
> Oh I forgot, this is FJ.I.HATE.JAPAN.
>
> >> I think we maybe we DON'T disagree after all,
> >> Eric. Ignorance, hatred, apathy and criticism of the less fortunate,
> >> avarice and greed are all HUMAN traits and we humans come in all
> >> shapes, sizes and races.
>
> >Right.
>
> >So what of it around you in Japan, and what should be done about it?
>
> The exact same thing that should be done about it in Mississippi, USA
> or Johannesburg, South Africa.
Yes, and note that other nations, particularly those in the industrialized
West, may be decades ahead of Japan in addressing issues people including
Japanese complain about in this country. Instead of simply marveling at
how some aspects of life are in the US, or western or northern Europe,
Japanese should do something to change their own country for the better,
because as you pointed out, foreigners don't vote.
> It should be fought against and
> eradicated. But that's a pipe dream. It's a human trait. Look that
> Arabs and the Jews and the Serbs and Bosnians and the Russians and the
> Chechyans and The Hutu and the Tutsi. I really don't have much hope of
> hatred and ignorance ever being done away with. Call me a pessimist.
You are doing precisely what many "people" I know do, to conveniently
avoid doing anything about the problem while living comfortably
themselves.
You can do something about it, even if it is only in your own home or your
own neighborhood, or you try to help or change one person at a time.
Eric Takabayashi
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 21:50:29 +0900, Eric Takabayashi
> <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>
> >So what do you think marrying a Japanese means, and why do you link it to
> >feelings toward Japan or living in it?
>
> I don't link it. I just wondered how people who people could marry
> someone who they don't consider human.
And who would that be?
Back to the topic at hand, Japanese, perhaps you in your ten years have noticed the
status of women here, particularly married women and mothers. I don't know how the
situation of women is in your rural part of Japan, but when I lived in a small town
on a small island, I felt like I was in a 50s TV sitcom.
Why don't you ask Japanese husbands your question, particularly the older ones?
> >> Then again, I'm just guessing here but I'd say you probably
> >> don't know all the 127,435,000 Japanese you so eagerly label as a
> >> single unkind entity either.
> >
> >I don't need to meet them, to see what they obviously and factually don't do. It
> >was you pointing out that homeless shelters and soup kitchens do not exist here
> >like back home. My home community does not have any homeless shelter, it is
> >true. But the local food bank helps a full sixth of the entire population to
> >help those in need. That's money and food straight from people's pockets, by
> >choice, not by law from taxes. Can you say such of Japan and its homeless or
> >poor?
>
> No, I can't. I wouldn't be so foolish as to defend the Japanese
> government or their attitudes towards the homeless which I believe you
> when you say they stink. That I can handle. Saying 100% of Japanese
> citizens are unwilling to help either I disagree with.
Now when did I say this? Also please note even 100% of people being "willing to
help" does not necessarily equal a single person ACTUALLY helping. Yeah, I know a
few Japanese among the many others who denigrate poor and homeless who are "willing
to help". They just don't. The best I have is a few hundred yen. No food or clothes
for the poor from any Japanese but my wife. And I have asked people. Nicely.
I can say such of Fukuyama, because honestly, it is and was me handing people
downtown items such as candles, socks, toothbrushes, shampoo, shavers, and
underwear, because they may have had none at the time before me. I also see people
wearing my clothes.
> >Why don't you speak to some of your kind and generous Japanese friends to see
> >what they think and do about homeless or the poor, or meet and listen to some
> >homeless yourself?
>
> I guess it's not as much of a problem down here as it is in the big
> cities.
What does having few homeless or none where you are, if that is in fact true, have
to do with what Japanese you know think or do about the problem of the poor or
homeless in Japan?
> Either that or they're hiding them well or maybe they're in
> shelters. Or maybe the people ARE helping each other. I'll tell you
> what I WILL check out the local situation
Be sure to ask people you know about what they actually think or do about the
homeless with their own time, clothes, food and money, not what is done with tax
dollars.
> and I will get an answer to your question too. Maybe it will be a learning
> experience for both of us.
Why would it be a learning experience for me? What does what might be going on in
rural Shikoku, which I have never denied, have to do with the problem as it exists
for tens of thousands of others in other parts of Japan, particularly big cities,
where the vast majority of people DO treat homeless as part of the landscape or a
nuisance?
MatthewOutland
there, and you can go anytime, THEN LEAVE.
Still raj, you will find that people around the world are pretty
stupid. Only 90 percent of the people here are stupid though. So
dont lsoe faith because of people like Eric takabayashi and Mike "sick
racist bigot" Fester, and this ruan ginstrome person who is obviously
prejudiced towards Osakans.
Haluk Skywalker
yazdi:9ehurv08e2t2vcp6p...@4ax.com...
> <blush> I'm sorry for the foul language, Ms. Bremner. I had no idea
> ladies were present.
>
>
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:30:36 +0900, dame_...@yahoo.com ( Louise
> Bremner) wrote:
>
> >Raj Feridun <rfe...@NOSPAMyahoo.co.jp> wrote:
> >
> >> Pardon me but what a LOAD of elitist racist bullshit!
> >
> >
>
You sexist top poster, you... :)
Dan Rempel
> Ed <gwb...@whitehouse.com> mused:
>
>
>>Japanese are not kind.
>
>
>>That's right. They are not kind. It's not that they are unkind, but rather
>>that the concept of kindness isn't part of the Japanese psyche. Oh, they
>>understand the concept well enough. It's just that they don't see the
>>point. Why be kind to a stranger? Why care about somebody because they are
>>human, thus deserve kindness?
>
>
> I've been pondering your post all day... It's just so close to a theory
> I postulated some time ago, I wonder if you've hit on the same thing I
> did.
>
> My speculation was that everyone is issued a certain amount of
> *something* (which I thought of as *politeness* but your *kindness*
> seems to fit just as well), and it's up to the individual to use that
> *something* has s/he sees fit (different individuals will, of course, be
> issued different amounts of this *something*).
>
> In which case, it does make sense to avoid wasting this *something* on
> complete strangers--far better to invest it in situations that reap the
> best advantage from the individual's point of view....
>
> Or have I drunk too much wine?
You may have; I don't know (I certainly did last night). However, your
idea of saving your quantity of *something" for situations that are to
one's advantage matches what I've read about Japanese society (can't
come up with a reference at the moment), and what I've been told by
Japanese people themselves: no point in starting something with someone
you don't know. You may end up with an unwanted obligation, and, in any
case, the person is soto, and your uchi is enough trouble already.
Preparing for my racist label,
Dan
Michael Cash
>No, I do not and I resent this characterization of a person you don't
>even know.
Wow. That's precisely the reason we resent being labelled racists by
you.
Michael Cash
the alphabet and kept on going with:
>Louise Bremner wrote:
You have pointed out precisely why the students at the rural community
center I mentioned were so extraordinarily reluctant to introduce
themselves to each other.
>
>Preparing for my racist label,
YOU ELITIST RACIST BASTARD!
(PS: *all* the episodes with Ronald Colman in them are hilarious)
Louise Bremner
> > > If you think you've got an example of Japanese kindness, I'd be glad to
> > > destroy your delusion.
> >
> > A tiny ray of hope--a boy of about 10 held open the door of the local
> > Seiyu as an elderly person approached, and didn't look disappointed when
> > said elderly person walked through without even apparently noticing how
> > come the door wasn't closed. He still stood patiently holding the door
> > open as a couple more people barged through without thanking him, so I
> > made a point of going through after them, and I thanked him. He looked
> > stunned, so of course it's possible I've gone and killed that impulse
> > towards random acts of kindness....
>
> I hold the door open for ladies (the guys can open the door themselves)
> and am always thanked.
I was taught to hold open the door for anyone burdened in any way (with
children, packages, walking sticks, whatever...) but rarely get thanked
(except for the time I held it open for a guy in a wheelchair who was
having to reach far forward to pull the door towards him--that time, the
thanks were so effusive, I got quite embarrassed).
> I wonder where ????
So do I.
________________________________________________________________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!
Louise Bremner
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:30:36 +0900, dame_...@yahoo.com ( Louise
> Bremner) wrote:
>
> >Raj Feridun <rfe...@NOSPAMyahoo.co.jp> wrote:
> >
> >> Pardon me but what a LOAD of elitist racist bullshit!
> >
> >Don't hold back--do tell us what you _really_ feel....
> <blush> I'm sorry for the foul language, Ms. Bremner. I had no idea
> ladies were present.
Been "lurking in this group for quite some time now", have you?
Ryan Ginstrom
" Louise Bremner" <dame_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> My speculation was that everyone is issued a certain amount of
> *something* (which I thought of as *politeness* but your *kindness*
> seems to fit just as well), and it's up to the individual to use that
> *something* has s/he sees fit (different individuals will, of course, be
> issued different amounts of this *something*).
>
> In which case, it does make sense to avoid wasting this *something* on
> complete strangers--far better to invest it in situations that reap the
> best advantage from the individual's point of view....
>
> Or have I drunk too much wine?
I think that pretty much sums it up -- a scarcity-based view of kindness
(there's only a certain amount so use it wisely), versus an abundance-based
view (cast your bread upon the waters). That Jesus dude was quite the
revolutionary, wasn't he?
Of course, to say there are no kind Japanese is an overstatement. Lots of
people truly are kind to their fellow man, and in a way it's even more
admirable, since they are kind out of their own natures and personally
arrived-at beliefs, rather than through some kind of cultural indoctrination
and Pavlovian gratification one gets through being kind.
Another thing that's kind of a puzzler is that while most Japanese aren't
really *kind* in the Western sense, they are very honest. That might be part
of the reason why they are so easy to dupe and scam. Those mujin vegetable
stands are a good example. There aren't many places in the US where one of
those stands wouldn't get robbed blind. Of course, they are vanishing in
Japan as well, but even in cities you can still find them. The wallet thing
is another example. If Japanese are only kind when they see personal gain,
then why are they honest when there is no immediate, pragmatic reason to be
so?
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Ryan Ginstrom
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:31:24 +0900, Eric Takabayashi
>
> Why limit yourself? ;-) I think we maybe we DON'T disagree after all,
> Eric. Ignorance, hatred, apathy and criticism of the less fortunate,
> avarice and greed are all HUMAN traits and we humans come in all
> shapes, sizes and races.
... And you may be the only person on the list for whom it's taken this long
to figure this out. Of course we all know when we say "the Japanese are very
selfish drivers" that we are not implying that _only_ the Japanese are
selfish drivers. It's just that once you get past all the hand-wringing over
giving offense, so being sure to say something good to balance every
negative comment about Japan, or better yet something even worse about a
foreign country, then you can cut to the chase a lot quicker.
And the difference between the griping you see here and the stuff you might
see on some JET list or whatnot is that in general, the people here know
what they are talking about.
But OK, I said something negative about Japanese driving -- they are
selfish -- and I will say something positive: they are not aggressive. Road
rage is almost unheard of, people don't lay on their horns to show their
displeasure, and very few people will actively move to cut you off rather
than let you get in front of them (except drivers of 2 to 4-ton trucks, for
some reason). So if you can just get over the assholes, driving in Japan can
be even less stressful than driving in, say, LA. In LA, you'd better not use
your turn signals too quickly, because that just gives the cars around you a
chance to spot your intentions and cut you off. Just looking over your
shoulder to see if there's space to change lanes can prompt the car behind
you to speed up, and cut you off. Instead, you've got to kind of peek
through your side mirror, don't position yourself too well for the change
(that will tip them off), and give maybe one or two flashes of the turn
signal *just* as you change lanes. At least I saw very little of that in
Japan. Also, people drive slower in Japan so a wreck would be less deadly.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Ed
Eric Takabayashi
> "Raj Feridun" <rfe...@NOSPAMyahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
> news:jjlurvc9hhs0i07sn...@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:31:24 +0900, Eric Takabayashi
> > >But we are addressing problems of Japan, not the US.
> >
> > Why limit yourself? ;-) I think we maybe we DON'T disagree after all,
> > Eric. Ignorance, hatred, apathy and criticism of the less fortunate,
> > avarice and greed are all HUMAN traits and we humans come in all
> > shapes, sizes and races.
>
> ... And you may be the only person on the list for whom it's taken this long
> to figure this out. Of course we all know when we say "the Japanese are very
> selfish drivers" that we are not implying that _only_ the Japanese are
> selfish drivers. It's just that once you get past all the hand-wringing over
> giving offense, so being sure to say something good to balance every
> negative comment about Japan, or better yet something even worse about a
> foreign country, then you can cut to the chase a lot quicker.
>
> And the difference between the griping you see here and the stuff you might
> see on some JET list or whatnot is that in general, the people here know
> what they are talking about.
>
> But OK, I said something negative about Japanese driving -- they are
> selfish --
Haven't noticed, and I've driven in various places and major urban areas all
the way to Gifu. Out of towners complain about Fukuyama drivers, but I haven't
noticed anything special. Drivers turn and change lanes without signaling,
though, and bicycle riders don't check behind them before making sudden
movements. It's even more dangerous when I'm coming up from behind them riding
a bicycle, than when driving.
> and I will say something positive: they are not aggressive. Road
> rage is almost unheard of, people don't lay on their horns to show their
> displeasure, and very few people will actively move to cut you off rather
> than let you get in front of them (except drivers of 2 to 4-ton trucks, for
> some reason). So if you can just get over the assholes, driving in Japan can
> be even less stressful than driving in, say, LA. In LA, you'd better not use
> your turn signals too quickly, because that just gives the cars around you a
> chance to spot your intentions and cut you off. Just looking over your
> shoulder to see if there's space to change lanes can prompt the car behind
> you to speed up, and cut you off. Instead, you've got to kind of peek
> through your side mirror, don't position yourself too well for the change
> (that will tip them off), and give maybe one or two flashes of the turn
> signal *just* as you change lanes. At least I saw very little of that in
> Japan. Also, people drive slower in Japan so a wreck would be less deadly.
Bah. If there are three or more lanes in either direction, people drive like
it's a highway. They might as well get rid of "25 kph" signs and zones as well.
Eric Takabayashi
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 09:53:18 -0800, Dan Rempel <hurty@flurty> belched
> the alphabet and kept on going with:
> >>
> >> I've been pondering your post all day... It's just so close to a theory
> >> I postulated some time ago, I wonder if you've hit on the same thing I
> >> did.
> >>
> >> My speculation was that everyone is issued a certain amount of
> >> *something* (which I thought of as *politeness* but your *kindness*
> >> seems to fit just as well), and it's up to the individual to use that
> >> *something* has s/he sees fit (different individuals will, of course, be
> >> issued different amounts of this *something*).
> >>
> >> In which case, it does make sense to avoid wasting this *something* on
> >> complete strangers--far better to invest it in situations that reap the
> >> best advantage from the individual's point of view....
> >>
> >> Or have I drunk too much wine?
> >
> >You may have; I don't know (I certainly did last night). However, your
> >idea of saving your quantity of *something" for situations that are to
> >one's advantage matches what I've read about Japanese society (can't
> >come up with a reference at the moment), and what I've been told by
> >Japanese people themselves: no point in starting something with someone
> >you don't know. You may end up with an unwanted obligation, and, in any
> >case, the person is soto, and your uchi is enough trouble already.
>
> You have pointed out precisely why the students at the rural community
> center I mentioned were so extraordinarily reluctant to introduce
> themselves to each other.
And they're idiots. My mother lived in a place and belonged to a generation
where people believed in community and kindness to strangers, in addition to
having a Japanese born before 1900 for a father. Even in a place full of
strangers such as wandering around Japan where she doesn't speak the language,
seeing a family with a child on the street, or sitting in a busy restaurant,
she'll try striking up conversation with anybody. Sometimes I wish she were not
that way, but it's how she became a community figure back home. And it is not
her intention, but that is how there are so many people available to help her if
she needs it.
Eric Takabayashi
> " Louise Bremner" <dame_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > My speculation was that everyone is issued a certain amount of
> > *something* (which I thought of as *politeness* but your *kindness*
> > seems to fit just as well), and it's up to the individual to use that
> > *something* has s/he sees fit (different individuals will, of course, be
> > issued different amounts of this *something*).
> >
> > In which case, it does make sense to avoid wasting this *something* on
> > complete strangers--far better to invest it in situations that reap the
> > best advantage from the individual's point of view....
> >
> > Or have I drunk too much wine?
>
> I think that pretty much sums it up -- a scarcity-based view of kindness
> (there's only a certain amount so use it wisely), versus an abundance-based
> view (cast your bread upon the waters). That Jesus dude was quite the
> revolutionary, wasn't he?
It's easy enough for someone who can create food out of nothing, had a
substantial following and sponsors to provide lodging and financial support, to
say we should give to all who ask or to help all in need. If other people could
do that, they'd help people, too. I was just thinking last week that Jesus was
homeless and a freeter.
> Of course, to say there are no kind Japanese is an overstatement. Lots of
> people truly are kind to their fellow man, and in a way it's even more
> admirable, since they are kind out of their own natures and personally
> arrived-at beliefs, rather than through some kind of cultural indoctrination
> and Pavlovian gratification one gets through being kind.
>
> Another thing that's kind of a puzzler is that while most Japanese aren't
> really *kind* in the Western sense, they are very honest. That might be part
> of the reason why they are so easy to dupe and scam.
This refers to naive, a belief or expectation that everyone else is honest like
most people used to be but no longer are. Kind of how Japanese expect the world
to simply live in peace, lay down their weapons and settle all problems by
talking them out, or thinking that SDF personnel can be sent to Iraq and not be
in danger anywhere.
> Those mujin vegetable
> stands are a good example. There aren't many places in the US where one of
> those stands wouldn't get robbed blind.
Non urban Hawaii is one. The equivalent of cases of fresh fruit get left on
tables on the roadside with the understanding it should be paid for. In
addition to apparently not being robbed, the food is not stolen, either.
Ryan Ginstrom
"Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
news:3FC02668...@yahoo.co.jp...
> Ryan Ginstrom wrote:
> > But OK, I said something negative about Japanese driving -- they are
> > selfish --
>
> Haven't noticed, and I've driven in various places and major urban areas
all
> the way to Gifu.
Wow, you haven't noticed the cars cutting into the right-turn lanes, and
blocking the flow of traffic until they can worm over? Or the convoys of
trucks blowing through a red light, sometimes taking so long that the light
changes again? Or the double-parked cars causing massive traffic jams? Or
the drivers refusing to stop at stop signs even if they know another car is
approaching (with right of way)? Then either you don't do a lot of driving,
or Aichi drivers are much worse than the rest of Japan (or both?)
> Bah. If there are three or more lanes in either direction, people drive
like
> it's a highway. They might as well get rid of "25 kph" signs and zones as
well.
When's the last time you drove on the US mainland, Eric? In Japan, I hardly
ever see cars doing more than 120 kph even on expressways, which is just
under 75 mph. That is downright tame -- the *speed limit* on many US
freeways is 70 mph, and people (myself included) regularly drive 90 mph,
often 100 to 120 mph (~160 to 190 kph).
The area where Japanese speeders have Sepponians beat is barreling down tiny
side streets marked "school route", where there are no sidewalks but only
white lines marking where the 8 year-old kids are walking to school in the
morning...
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Ryan Ginstrom
> I was just thinking last week that Jesus was
> homeless and a freeter.
I bet he squatted in a lot of doorways in his time, too. And knocking over
the merchants' tables in the temple was a very "punk" thing to do -- as in
knocking over the rotting establishment.
> Ryan Ginstrom wrote:
> > Another thing that's kind of a puzzler is that while most Japanese
aren't
> > really *kind* in the Western sense, they are very honest. That might be
part
> > of the reason why they are so easy to dupe and scam.
>
> This refers to naive, a belief or expectation that everyone else is honest
like
> most people used to be but no longer are.
Yep, and that's why dishonest people are very hard to scam -- they expect
everybody to be as dishonest as them. The way to get over on crooked people
is by making them think they are doing the scamming. That's probably why the
nigerian scams are so effective on Japanese corproate types.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Eric Takabayashi
> "Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
> news:3FC02668...@yahoo.co.jp...
> > Ryan Ginstrom wrote:
> > > But OK, I said something negative about Japanese driving -- they are
> > > selfish --
> >
> > Haven't noticed, and I've driven in various places and major urban areas
> all
> > the way to Gifu.
>
> Wow, you haven't noticed the cars cutting into the right-turn lanes, and
> blocking the flow of traffic until they can worm over? Or the convoys of
> trucks blowing through a red light, sometimes taking so long that the light
> changes again? Or the double-parked cars causing massive traffic jams? Or
> the drivers refusing to stop at stop signs even if they know another car is
> approaching (with right of way)? Then either you don't do a lot of driving,
> or Aichi drivers are much worse than the rest of Japan (or both?)
Or people not going forward on green for whatever reason. Like I said, nothing
special. The only people who are obviously selfish are bosozoku, who've become
scarce since the legal crackdown.
It seems Aichi drivers are worse than drivers in Fukuyama, whom people who've
moved from all over Japan complain about.
> > Bah. If there are three or more lanes in either direction, people drive
> like
> > it's a highway. They might as well get rid of "25 kph" signs and zones as
> well.
>
> When's the last time you drove on the US mainland, Eric?
Never. How is this relevant to the selfishness of Japanese drivers?
> In Japan, I hardly ever see cars doing more than 120 kph even on expressways,
And when I drive 120, cars usually blow by from the right. I figure at up to
160. I drive 120, because that is what the flow of traffic is. Even 110 blocks
cars from behind and will have traffic passing on the right (in this region,
the right lane is not to be driven in, but for passing only). Cars which drive
80 or 100 probably aren't a percentage of drivers I see on the highway here.
Ask me how traffic was last week, when 50 kph signs went up on the highway
because of falling rocks, or 60 kph signs went up for some reason on the way
back.
> which is just
> under 75 mph. That is downright tame -- the *speed limit* on many US
> freeways is 70 mph, and people (myself included) regularly drive 90 mph,
> often 100 to 120 mph (~160 to 190 kph).
>
> The area where Japanese speeders have Sepponians beat is barreling down tiny
> side streets marked "school route", where there are no sidewalks but only
> white lines marking where the 8 year-old kids are walking to school in the
> morning...
Yeah, the places which might be marked 25 kph.
Ryan Ginstrom
> Never. How is this relevant to the selfishness of Japanese drivers?
"Bah. If there are three or more lanes in either direction, people drive
like it's a highway."
-- Eric Takabayashi
That was in response to my saying Japanese drivers drive slower than
Sepponian ones, so you must be saying that this is not the case -- Japanese
drivers drive just as fast as Sepponian ones.
This is in fact not the case in absolute terms (IME), but I agree that down
narrow streets they often drive at speeds that are quite frightening to me.
In fact, I remember being scared shitless the first time I rode in a
Japanese taxi.
We were barreling down this little street as wide as a one-way street in
Sepponia. Another car came from the other direction, and the taxi driver
didn't even slow down -- just flipped a little switch that retracted the
side mirrors. I think he needed those extra centimeters to make it, too.
I never got used to that, either. I still slow down on those
swapping-spit-close passes.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Eric Takabayashi
> "Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
> news:3FC02FE...@yahoo.co.jp...
> > Never. How is this relevant to the selfishness of Japanese drivers?
>
> "Bah. If there are three or more lanes in either direction, people drive
> like it's a highway."
> -- Eric Takabayashi
>
> That was in response to my saying Japanese drivers drive slower than
> Sepponian ones, so you must be saying that this is not the case -- Japanese
> drivers drive just as fast as Sepponian ones.
>
> This is in fact not the case in absolute terms (IME),
There is a government official I've met who drives his Testarossa at 300 kph
to Okayama.
> but I agree that down
> narrow streets they often drive at speeds that are quite frightening to me.
> In fact, I remember being scared shitless the first time I rode in a
> Japanese taxi.
>
> We were barreling down this little street as wide as a one-way street in
> Sepponia. Another car came from the other direction, and the taxi driver
> didn't even slow down -- just flipped a little switch that retracted the
> side mirrors. I think he needed those extra centimeters to make it, too.
>
> I never got used to that, either. I still slow down on those
> swapping-spit-close passes.
I love watching how they do that. One reason I am worried about buying a
foreign car without motorized side mirrors and left hand drive.
Scott Reynolds
> OK, fair enough. As for myself I hope when I do "escape" home again I
> will do it WITH my family.
So you're planning to leave. Why is that, if I may ask?
--
_______________________________________________________________
Scott Reynolds s...@gol.com
Brett Robson
>
> LA. In LA, you'd better not use
>your turn signals too quickly, because that just gives the cars around you a
>chance to spot your intentions and cut you off.
That's the difference between Adelaide and Sydney. In Sydney, leaving the city I
joined the freeway leading to the Harbour Bridge on the right hand side, and had
to exit on the left hand side around 1 1/2 kilometers, crossing 10 lanes. If I
missed it the next exit was 2km and put me along way out of the way. I never had
a problem.
In Adelaide if you move to the right lane to turn right people would rather get
angry than go around you. People seem to think the right lane is an express
lane. At intersections there is usually a third lane on the left which either
stops 100meter onwards or has parked cars. You can have great fun pulling up in
it and watching the guy to your right accelerated hard to beat you and getting
aggro about it, while you just accelerate normally and pull in behind him.
.
.
----
"You don't bang it at 11:00pm but on the other hand, you don't play tribal house
when you're headlining a tech-house party"
DJ Mike McKenna talking shit
Brett Robson
>
>
> Those mujin vegetable
>stands are a good example.
Found one of those a couple of weeks ago. I stood there for a while expecting
someone to come out and server me and didn't realise what was going on.
Raj Feridun
<eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>Raj Feridun wrote:
>> I don't link it. I just wondered how people who people could marry
>> someone who they don't consider human.
>And who would that be?
The people posting in this thread who are married to Japanese and who
don't consider them to be human beings.
>Back to the topic at hand, Japanese, perhaps you in your ten years have noticed the
>status of women here, particularly married women and mothers. I don't know how the
>situation of women is in your rural part of Japan, but when I lived in a small town
>on a small island, I felt like I was in a 50s TV sitcom.
I don't feel that way at all down here.
>Why don't you ask Japanese husbands your question, particularly the older ones?
Well first I'd have to find a Japanese husband I know who doesn't
consider his wife to be an equal human being. I can't say as I know of
any. Maybe I just associate with nice people or something. Even my
in-laws who were married in the 50's are very comfortable with each
other and my mother-in-law is DEFINITELY running that house.
I don't give any slack to wife-abusers.
>> No, I can't. I wouldn't be so foolish as to defend the Japanese
>> government or their attitudes towards the homeless which I believe you
>> when you say they stink. That I can handle. Saying 100% of Japanese
>> citizens are unwilling to help either I disagree with.
>Now when did I say this? Also please note even 100% of people being "willing to
>help" does not necessarily equal a single person ACTUALLY helping. Yeah, I know a
>few Japanese among the many others who denigrate poor and homeless who are "willing
>to help". They just don't. The best I have is a few hundred yen. No food or clothes
>for the poor from any Japanese but my wife. And I have asked people. Nicely.
Instead of shelters and soup kitchens I'd love to see the government
institute some sort of treatment centers that could rehabilitate these
folks to standing on their own two feet again. Those with mental
illnesses could also be treated. No person can be left to the elements
when their lives are endangered but on the other hand I don't think
hand outs accomplish much in the long run. No offense meant to your
efforts which I've already said I admire.
>I can say such of Fukuyama, because honestly, it is and was me handing people
>downtown items such as candles, socks, toothbrushes, shampoo, shavers, and
>underwear, because they may have had none at the time before me. I also see people
>wearing my clothes.
Very good, but are they any closer to leaving the streets?
>> I guess it's not as much of a problem down here as it is in the big
>> cities.
>What does having few homeless or none where you are, if that is in fact true, have
>to do with what Japanese you know think or do about the problem of the poor or
>homeless in Japan?
It has nothing to do with it. But it has everything to do with why
I've never once broached the subject with folks down here. I can't ask
them how they deal with a problem they have no experience of and as
for their opinions on the homeless I guess I just never thought to
ask. Should I have?
>> Either that or they're hiding them well or maybe they're in
>> shelters. Or maybe the people ARE helping each other. I'll tell you
>> what I WILL check out the local situation
>Be sure to ask people you know about what they actually think or do about the
>homeless with their own time, clothes, food and money, not what is done with tax
>dollars.
OK, that answers my question. I will do so and let you know.
>> and I will get an answer to your question too. Maybe it will be a learning
>> experience for both of us.
>Why would it be a learning experience for me? What does what might be going on in
>rural Shikoku, which I have never denied, have to do with the problem as it exists
>for tens of thousands of others in other parts of Japan, particularly big cities,
>where the vast majority of people DO treat homeless as part of the landscape or a
>nuisance?
Pardon me for that. I should have never even SUGGESTED you might learn
something from what I find out about what's going on down here.
Your crusade is valiant. But remember the old saying "give a man a
fish and he eats for a day but teach him to fish...."
You know the rest
Raj Feridun
Touche. In my defense I had the evidence of your racist rantings. Plus
I didn't really resent your characterization of me. I just disagreed
with it.
Raj Feridun
Bremner) wrote:
>Raj Feridun <rfe...@NOSPAMyahoo.co.jp> top-posted:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:30:36 +0900, dame_...@yahoo.com ( Louise
>> Bremner) wrote:
>>
>> >Raj Feridun <rfe...@NOSPAMyahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Pardon me but what a LOAD of elitist racist bullshit!
>> >
>> >Don't hold back--do tell us what you _really_ feel....
>
>> <blush> I'm sorry for the foul language, Ms. Bremner. I had no idea
>> ladies were present.
>
>Been "lurking in this group for quite some time now", have you?
>
>________________________________________________________________________
> Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
> If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!
You caught me again. But I meant in this thread.
Raj Feridun
tri-state area of NY-NJ. Road rage is a way of life.
This post was very refreshing. Thanks!
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:55:25 +0900, "Ryan Ginstrom"
Raj Feridun
matter how nice life here is. Dorothy SAID there's no place like home.
She's right.
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:44:44 +0900, Scott Reynolds <s...@gol.com>
wrote:
Raj Feridun
Scott Reynolds
> Because I get very VERY sad to think that I'll never go home again no
> matter how nice life here is. Dorothy SAID there's no place like home.
> She's right.
Well, then you should be aware that most of the people you have been
calling ignorant, elitist, racist (etc., etc.) are here for the long
term, many probably permanently. (I include myself in this group, BTW.)
But then again you gave yourself away with your "if you don't like it,
go home" comment. You don't seem to understand that for many of the
regulars in this group (and, specifically, for the ones you have been so
busy insulting) Japan IS home.
And what Ed wrote is what all of us have felt at one time or another. To
pretend that the coldness of the Japanese toward others in public
settings, and the shocking lack of compassion or even consideration
toward strangers, is some sort of "racist, elitist" lie is simply to
deny reality. It surely is the least attractive aspect of this country,
and it does get to you sometimes.
Are you seriously trying to tell me that it has never bothered you?
Eric Takabayashi
> On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 00:44:33 +0900, Eric Takabayashi
> <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>
> >Raj Feridun wrote:
>
> >> I don't link it. I just wondered how people who people could marry
> >> someone who they don't consider human.
>
> >And who would that be?
>
> The people posting in this thread who are married to Japanese and who
> don't consider them to be human beings.
>
> >Back to the topic at hand, Japanese, perhaps you in your ten years have noticed the
> >status of women here, particularly married women and mothers. I don't know how the
> >situation of women is in your rural part of Japan, but when I lived in a small town
> >on a small island, I felt like I was in a 50s TV sitcom.
>
> I don't feel that way at all down here.
So what is the status of women in your area? Like in northern Europe?
> >Why don't you ask Japanese husbands your question, particularly the older ones?
>
> Well first I'd have to find a Japanese husband I know who doesn't
> consider his wife to be an equal human being. I can't say as I know of
> any.
You mean they don't leave the household chores or childrearing to their wives?
> Maybe I just associate with nice people or something. Even my
> in-laws who were married in the 50's are very comfortable with each
> other and my mother-in-law is DEFINITELY running that house.
>
> I don't give any slack to wife-abusers.
>
> >> No, I can't. I wouldn't be so foolish as to defend the Japanese
> >> government or their attitudes towards the homeless which I believe you
> >> when you say they stink. That I can handle. Saying 100% of Japanese
> >> citizens are unwilling to help either I disagree with.
>
> >Now when did I say this? Also please note even 100% of people being "willing to
> >help" does not necessarily equal a single person ACTUALLY helping. Yeah, I know a
> >few Japanese among the many others who denigrate poor and homeless who are "willing
> >to help". They just don't. The best I have is a few hundred yen. No food or clothes
> >for the poor from any Japanese but my wife. And I have asked people. Nicely.
>
> Instead of shelters and soup kitchens I'd love to see the government
> institute some sort of treatment centers that could rehabilitate these
> folks to standing on their own two feet again.
In bigger cities, the government attempts to give older people training to help make
them employable. Even in Fukuyama, the city offered free computer training through a
computer company. My wife attended, and said that mostly older people were there. The
Tokyo government offered rewards to companies hiring middle aged workers. And of
course, the government made it illegal to discriminate against applicants on the basis
of age or gender. Age restrictions on recruitment ads have pretty much disappeared.
None of that means companies actually hire that way, nor are they required to keep
older workers on.
And none of this moves people to acts of charity which would be effective in improving
the situation.
> Those with mental
> illnesses could also be treated. No person can be left to the elements
> when their lives are endangered but on the other hand I don't think
> hand outs accomplish much in the long run. No offense meant to your
> efforts which I've already said I admire.
Handouts are the last resort and all I can do. These guys aren't going to be 22
university grads with relevant experience, or young and healthy laborers again, ever.
> >I can say such of Fukuyama, because honestly, it is and was me handing people
> >downtown items such as candles, socks, toothbrushes, shampoo, shavers, and
> >underwear, because they may have had none at the time before me. I also see people
> >wearing my clothes.
>
> Very good, but are they any closer to leaving the streets?
No, but they can have a little more or be a little more comfortable. More people need
to give and do more to be more effective.
What are you saying? Are you going to do more? Are you going to hire homeless or take
them into your home? Would you like to send me some clothes or money?
> >> I guess it's not as much of a problem down here as it is in the big
> >> cities.
>
> >What does having few homeless or none where you are, if that is in fact true, have
> >to do with what Japanese you know think or do about the problem of the poor or
> >homeless in Japan?
>
> It has nothing to do with it. But it has everything to do with why
> I've never once broached the subject with folks down here. I can't ask
> them how they deal with a problem they have no experience of
You can ask them what they think.
> and as
> for their opinions on the homeless I guess I just never thought to
> ask. Should I have?
Yes, you never thought to ask, or do much else.
You can ask them anything you want.
> >> Either that or they're hiding them well or maybe they're in
> >> shelters. Or maybe the people ARE helping each other. I'll tell you
> >> what I WILL check out the local situation
>
> >Be sure to ask people you know about what they actually think or do about the
> >homeless with their own time, clothes, food and money, not what is done with tax
> >dollars.
>
> OK, that answers my question. I will do so and let you know.
And something you should keep in mind. Since you claim that the problem of homelessness
and perhaps poverty is so far removed from their daily lives, what they claim to
believe or what they say they would do has no relevance at all to what they would
actually do about it given the opportunity. People in big cities can see what the
actual situation of Japanese "kindness" is, not what you claim the warm and rosy
situation of Shikoku is.
> >> and I will get an answer to your question too. Maybe it will be a learning
> >> experience for both of us.
>
> >Why would it be a learning experience for me? What does what might be going on in
> >rural Shikoku, which I have never denied, have to do with the problem as it exists
> >for tens of thousands of others in other parts of Japan, particularly big cities,
> >where the vast majority of people DO treat homeless as part of the landscape or a
> >nuisance?
>
> Pardon me for that. I should have never even SUGGESTED you might learn
> something from what I find out about what's going on down here.
What do you think I will learn from a place you claim does not have a homelessness
problem, where locals can talk out their asses what they WOULD do if they were
confronted with homeless? I live in a discriminated district and see homeless, as well
as speak to people often about social problems and hear their despicable attitudes, to
know what Japanese "kindness" is like.
> Your crusade is valiant. But remember the old saying "give a man a
> fish and he eats for a day but teach him to fish...."
>
> You know the rest
I know it. But I am not a factory, construction company, or a university; nor can I
restore their youth or health. And the people with the means to be effective
Aren't kind.
And they are Japanese.
Eric Takabayashi
I can believe that in a rural area with a more traditional sense of
community, he might actually be sheltered from the problem, and be allowed
to have his view that problems he has never seen or experienced are merely
a way of life, and someone else's problem.