Japanese livers *must* be different!
Ken Yasumoto-Nicolson
committee, and from our resident quack, we got some advice on drinking
limits. Translating roughly, it says:
If you drink over 60-80 grammes of ethanol (over 3-4 sake pottery
thingies I've forgotton the word for; over 3-4 bottles of beer (660ml
size implied by clip-art); or over 3-4 doubles) per day, there's a
high possibility (ka'nosei ga takai) of "fatty liver" (don't know the
proper term!)
Over 100-120 grammes, for over 10-15 years, it's possible (ka'nosei ga
aru) to get liver fibrosis (cirrhosis? kan-sen'i-sho).
I was always taught that the safe/recommended limit is 3-4 units per
day for men (eg, about 30-40 grammes) or 28 per week. Does the
Japanese goverment have any recommendations on this matter? Wouldn't
most Japanese men be over that limit with their sake on returning home
and a beer or two over food? I get funny looks from my colleagues when
I tell them I don't actually consume any alcohol at home at all.
Ken
Brett Robson
>
>We just got our monthly "fact" sheet from our health and safety
>committee, and from our resident quack, we got some advice on drinking
>limits. Translating roughly, it says:
>
>If you drink over 60-80 grammes of ethanol (over 3-4 sake pottery
>thingies I've forgotton the word for; over 3-4 bottles of beer (660ml
>size implied by clip-art); or over 3-4 doubles) per day, there's a
>high possibility (ka'nosei ga takai) of "fatty liver" (don't know the
>proper term!)
>
>Over 100-120 grammes, for over 10-15 years, it's possible (ka'nosei ga
>aru) to get liver fibrosis (cirrhosis? kan-sen'i-sho).
>
Do Japanese commonly drink that much?
> I get funny looks from my colleagues when
>I tell them I don't actually consume any alcohol at home at all.
>
I don't drink at home either. A can of beer will last a month in my fridge, in
fact there are three cans in my fridge now and I am not sure when and where I
bought them. If I drink wine with dinner I usually don't finish one glass and
the bottle gets thrown out after two weeks half finished. Take me to pub and
it's a completely different matter.
.
----
"No country hides itself behind the paper screen of cultural elitism like Japan,
which, considering they've bought their entire civilisation from other people's
hand-me-downs, is a bit of a liberty."
Michael Cash
Yasumoto-Nicolson) belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>I get funny looks from my colleagues when
>I tell them I don't actually consume any alcohol at home at all.
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger.
One of the most bizarre sights I have seen when it comes to this was
when I went to work about midnight one night. When I got there, I was
sleepy as hell, and it wasn't really necessary that I get started
until about 3 or 4, so I cranked up the engine to get some heat,
leaned my seat all the way back, put my legs up on the steering wheel,
and drifted off to sleep.
About an hour or so later I was wakened by a car pulling into the
company. The car was followed by another car, this one a "daiko". For
those who may not know what that is, it is the service you call to
drive your car home for you when you're too drunk to do it yourself.
Anyway, the guy finished up an evening of bar-hopping, decided that he
was too drunk to drive his own car, had a daiko service come get him
and drop him and his car at the company. He then fired up his truck
and headed out down the road.
A couple of weeks ago we all went to a city park and spent a pleasant
day playing softball. There were about 20 of us. I believe myself and
perhaps one or two others were the only ones who didn't imbibe. The
amount of empty beer cans they hauled out with them after the game was
staggering, as were they. Yes, they all got in their cars and merrily
drove away. These are guys whose next meal depends on their drivers
license.
When I reflect on it, it no longer comes as a surprise to me that, for
a while at least, of the 19 drivers in my section I was the only one
with a gold drivers license.
Michael Cash
the alphabet and kept on going with:
>On 12 Nov 2003 22:55:27 -0800, Ken Yasumoto-Nicolson ...
>>
>>We just got our monthly "fact" sheet from our health and safety
>>committee, and from our resident quack, we got some advice on drinking
>>limits. Translating roughly, it says:
>>
>>If you drink over 60-80 grammes of ethanol (over 3-4 sake pottery
>>thingies I've forgotton the word for; over 3-4 bottles of beer (660ml
>>size implied by clip-art); or over 3-4 doubles) per day, there's a
>>high possibility (ka'nosei ga takai) of "fatty liver" (don't know the
>>proper term!)
>>
>>Over 100-120 grammes, for over 10-15 years, it's possible (ka'nosei ga
>>aru) to get liver fibrosis (cirrhosis? kan-sen'i-sho).
>>
>
>Do Japanese commonly drink that much?
Yes.
Alcohol is the social grease that this country runs on. Without it,
they would have killed each other off entirely long ago.
Eric Takabayashi
I used to believe it was crap that some Japanese believed that they were
somehow different physically, that the Japanese government feels it
necessary to confirm the safety of foreign approved drugs on Japanese
people, etc.
Well it turns out that ethnic groups actually do have meaningful physical
differences. I knew that there were differences between ethnic groups
(and age groups and genders) for susceptibility to certain diseases and
conditions. I did not know until recently that different races even
reacted differently to the same medications and treatments for ailments.
Brett Robson
Ask Bryan how iraira I get catching the train home late Friday nights.
Ken Yasumoto-Nicolson
>Do Japanese commonly drink that much?
Looking at the typical Salaryman I work with, yes. There are probably
more teetotaller and those unable to drink more than a few glasses
than in the west, but the guys who drink really can put it away,
whilst continually denying they do drink a lot.
As I tried to point out, check your colleagues and see how many have a
drink on arrival home and another one or two over dinner every day.
Ken
Ken Yasumoto-Nicolson
<eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>I used to believe it was crap that some Japanese believed that they were
>somehow different physically, that the Japanese government feels it
>necessary to confirm the safety of foreign approved drugs on Japanese
>people, etc.
>
>Well it turns out that ethnic groups actually do have meaningful physical
>differences. I knew that there were differences between ethnic groups
>(and age groups and genders) for susceptibility to certain diseases and
>conditions. I did not know until recently that different races even
>reacted differently to the same medications and treatments for ailments.
That's true, but what is the difference between Japanese and Western
livers? The best I can find, from studies in the UK is that Indian
sub-continent people are much more (8 times or so) more likely to get
liver disease from drinking. As Japanese seem to break down alcohol
slower, you would imagine it spends more time floating about the
liver.
Plus, the limits in my newsletter were suggesting twice or more
alcohol could be drunk than Western recommendations, plus there was no
note for women to drink less - and given the smaller body mass of the
average Japanese compared to a UK citizen, I think these figures are
irresponsible. I think I'll email the Health and Safety committee
tomorrow to suggest they check their data.
Ken
Bryan Parker
>On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:33:01 +0900, Michael Cash ...
>>
>>On 12 Nov 2003 23:17:10 -0800, Brett Robson <jet...@deja.com> belched
>>the alphabet and kept on going with:
>>
>>>On 12 Nov 2003 22:55:27 -0800, Ken Yasumoto-Nicolson ...
>>>>
>>>>We just got our monthly "fact" sheet from our health and safety
>>>>committee, and from our resident quack, we got some advice on drinking
>>>>limits. Translating roughly, it says:
>>>>
>>>>If you drink over 60-80 grammes of ethanol (over 3-4 sake pottery
>>>>thingies I've forgotton the word for; over 3-4 bottles of beer (660ml
>>>>size implied by clip-art); or over 3-4 doubles) per day, there's a
>>>>high possibility (ka'nosei ga takai) of "fatty liver" (don't know the
>>>>proper term!)
>>>>
>>>>Over 100-120 grammes, for over 10-15 years, it's possible (ka'nosei ga
>>>>aru) to get liver fibrosis (cirrhosis? kan-sen'i-sho).
>>>>
>>>
>>>Do Japanese commonly drink that much?
>>
>>Yes.
>>
>>Alcohol is the social grease that this country runs on. Without it,
>>they would have killed each other off entirely long ago.
>>
>
>Ask Bryan how iraira I get catching the train home late Friday nights.
They irritate him so bad that we have to meet at
the yakitori shop for drinks so he can cool down
enough to relax at the hostess clubs that we'll be
hitting up until sunrise Saturday morning. It's
fucking awful!
--
Bryan
the severe subnormal foreigner
http://www.trainerbryan.com/old_fjlij.html
Marc
"Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
news:3FB37F11...@yahoo.co.jp...
>
> I used to believe it was crap that some Japanese believed that they were
> somehow different physically, that the Japanese government feels it
> necessary to confirm the safety of foreign approved drugs on Japanese
> people, etc.
>
> Well it turns out that ethnic groups actually do have meaningful physical
> differences. I knew that there were differences between ethnic groups
> (and age groups and genders) for susceptibility to certain diseases and
> conditions. I did not know until recently that different races even
> reacted differently to the same medications and treatments for ailments.
>
Yes I think this is true, I work at a pharmaceutical company and we have a
section that is devoted to understanding how different drugs are
metabolized. They focus a lot on a group of enzymes that are responsible for
metabolizing foods, drugs in the intestine and liver (P450 enzymes) and
always have to deal with the fact that there can be significant differences
among individuals in their P450 profile, e.g. smokers v.s. non-smokers, and
much broader differences among ethnic groups. It creates problems in a
market where drugs are sold internationally, and in many cases some local
clinical trials including metabolism studies are required to get a drug
approved in Japan that is already approved overseas. But in the case of
alcohol, I think it is mainly alcohol dehydrogenase that is responsible for
how much a person can drink and how drunk he gets, and as I recall levels of
this are lower in Asian populations. So Japanese should be less tolernant of
alcohol, not more. But levels can be induced to increase if you tend to
drink a lot, and I bet there is a lot of serious induction going on. Also, I
bet that for someone who drinks a lot, they might know how to function while
drunk a little better than someone who doesn't drink too much.
I am surprised by Mike's stories about truck drivers drinking and driving.
When I was working in Japan this year I found that people in my company were
very very careful not to drive while drunk, just because the fines where so
huge. This was actually a big difference I saw between the time I was here
in the mid-90s to this year. Before, I had seen a lot of drunk driving, but
this year I saw almost none - and now a big part of nomikai logisitics
includes arranging rides back home after drinking.
What is the fine nowadays for drunk driving? I think I saw something like
30-Man?
I think the fine for driving without a license is 20-Man. Guess who forgot
their international driver's license when they lived in Japan this year?
Haluk Skywalker
"Michael Cash" <mike...@sunfield.ne.jp>, haber iletisinde sunlari
yazdi:mdu6rv4kud148c4du...@4ax.com...
Minamisan, an awfully interesting friend of mine from Osaka once said: take
three things; namely booz, women and pachinko away from Japanese men. And
this country will collapse. But it is true for all countries isn't it?
Bryce
"Haluk Skywalker" <yokoo...@spam.net> wrote in message
news:bp0nsh$1j9dhr$1...@ID-201738.news.uni-berlin.de...
Well, in some places I think it's booze, women and crack.
cc
"Haluk Skywalker" <yokoo...@spam.net> wrote in message
> Minamisan, an awfully interesting friend of mine from Osaka once said:
take
> three things; namely booz, women and pachinko away from Japanese men. And
> this country will collapse. But it is true for all countries isn't it?
Yes, but if you take away booz, men and pachinko...will anyone notice the
change ?
I mean imagine that after 2 or 3 weeks I'd start asking to other people
(well women) in Osaka what has happened to men, and the Japanese would tell
me : "Oh, let's not talk about that. You didn't even drink or play pachinko.
Everything is ok....Men ? They were just old leaves sticking under our
shoes. Go to see the cute pets in that shop..."
CC
Haluk Skywalker
yazd?:bp2a5r$js3$2...@bgsv5648.tk.mesh.ad.jp...
How about you take away brand clothing, okashi and gaijin boys?
Brett Robson
>They focus a lot on a group of enzymes that are responsible for
>metabolizing foods, drugs in the intestine and liver (P450 enzymes) and
>always have to deal with the fact that there can be significant differences
>among individuals in their P450 profile, e.g. smokers v.s. non-smokers, and
>much broader differences among ethnic groups.
Excuse me, but my knowledge of biology is limited to food goes in and ...
Enzymes are are sort of like biological catalysts? Are they alive or just
organic chemicals?
Michael Cash
<yokoo...@spam.net> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
keitai e-mail, Winnie-the-Pooh goods, and leopard pattern fabrics
cc
"Haluk Skywalker" <yokoo...@spam.net> wrote in message
> How about you take away brand clothing, okashi and gaijin boys?
Nice try.
Without the expensive fanfreluches, another way to waste and make waste
money would rapidly occupy the scene, tattoos could make a comeback if
clothing disappeared.
Gaijin boys, that was answered, whether they classify them as men or pets.
Don't forget Japan is an aging country, the majority of women are already
obatarian and are able to say things like "Ishihara is in fact cuter than Di
Caprio...". Bad taste doesn't wear off with age.
Okashi, you mean all ? The pocky are included ? Pan too ? Even ice-cream ?
Hidoiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii !
CC
Marc
"Brett Robson" <jet...@deja.com> wrote in message
news:bp2hl...@drn.newsguy.com...
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:26:57 GMT, Marc ...
> >They focus a lot on a group of enzymes that are responsible for
> >metabolizing foods, drugs in the intestine and liver (P450 enzymes) and
> >always have to deal with the fact that there can be significant
differences
> >among individuals in their P450 profile, e.g. smokers v.s. non-smokers,
and
> >much broader differences among ethnic groups.
>
> Excuse me, but my knowledge of biology is limited to food goes in and ...
>
> Enzymes are are sort of like biological catalysts? Are they alive or just
> organic chemicals?
they're the little boogie thingers that do all the biochemistry in the body-
breaking down food, making fat, detoxing chocolate yahoos, etc
Brett Robson
Thanks, I would take a bigger interest in bio if it wasn't so yucky.