Teaching (work visa)
Granola Bar
Japan? Is it better to jump on a flight go to Japan, get a job and
then get the work visa? Or is it better to get a work visa before
going to Japan? The reason I ask is because the Japanese embassy web
site here in the USA says it take 3 months to get a work visa without
sponsorship. I have a number of Japanese friends in Japan but I'm not
sure if they can assist me in gaining sponsorship. Any suggestions
would be greatly appreciated.
Louise Bremner
> ...the Japanese embassy web site here in the USA says it take 3 months to
> get a work visa without sponsorship.
That's an advance--I didn't even know it was possible to get a work visa
without sponsorship.
URL?
________________________________________________________________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!
GHill18299
What kind of teaching are you interested in? University? Kindergarten?
Language school (eikaiwa)? They have different requirements.
As for the visa issue, Americans can't get a working holiday visa, so they must
apply for a work visa, and that requires a bachelor's degree. Do you have one?
(any subject/major will do)
You have very few places that will interview/hire/sponsor you from outside
Japan. So, you can go that route (NOVA, AEON, GEOS, ECC, Altia, James English
School, Peppy Kids Club, Language House, American Language School, Westgate
Corporation, and the JET programme), or you can fill your pockets with money
(about US$4000) and come here to improve the odds. Only JET Programme and
Westgate pay for your airfare, and a few of the other places give you an
end-of-contract bonuse of about 100,000 yen, so that will take care of airfare,
but other than that, you are faced with the option of showing up here and
digging in. Housing will likely be limited to gaijin houses because you need a
sponsor/guarantor in most cases to set up your own apartment. (Even
LeoPalace21, which doesn't require a guarantor, asks that you pay for the
entire length of your stay up front!)
Work visas can take 2-4 months to process. Rare cases are less. So, plan on
getting the job 2-4 months before you move here (if you can get a job outside
Japan). Even if you are in Japan on a tourist visa, you might have to leave
the country to process that work visa (usually in Seoul), which requires more
money out of your pocket. Many places are not requiring you to leave Japan,
but this is only a trend, not something that happens 100% of the time.
Your friends cannot sponsor you unless they can prove they are a school, I
think.
Jean-Marc Desperrier
> [...] Even if you are in Japan on a tourist visa, you might have to leave
> the country to process that work visa (usually in Seoul), which requires more
> money out of your pocket. Many places are not requiring you to leave Japan,
> but this is only a trend, not something that happens 100% of the time.
Officially, you are 100% *required* to leave Japan to get the Visa.
Even getting it in Korea, and not in your home country is not garanteed.
> Your friends cannot sponsor you unless they can prove they are a school,
What is exactly needed is a japan established company that does the
paperwork and engage itsef to immigration to fork out at least 250.000
Yen/month for the guy.
Bryce
on
> getting the job 2-4 months before you move here (if you can get a job
outside
> Japan). Even if you are in Japan on a tourist visa, you might have to
leave
> the country to process that work visa (usually in Seoul), which requires
more
> money out of your pocket. Many places are not requiring you to leave
Japan,
> but this is only a trend, not something that happens 100% of the time.
>
that's funny you bring up Korea. I had to go to Pusan after college to get
my visa renewed. I fucked up quit badly and was stuck in Pusan for about 2
weeks. I played 3 - ball pool for the entire time and met a lot of nice
people (although we couldn't speak in English, some of them knew some
Japanese). But I remember staying at the Hilton in Pusan, and it was so
amazingly cheap; something like 10,000 for the suits. And about eight
hundred thousand yen in Korean wan took like a suitcase to carry around. it
was like monopoly money; but fun.
Granola Bar
> Language school (eikaiwa)? They have different requirements.
I would prefer to teach adults rather than children... I dont care if
it's at a university.
> apply for a work visa, and that requires a bachelor's degree. Do you have one?
yes I have a B.S\M.S\MBA
>
> You have very few places that will interview/hire/sponsor you from outside
> Japan. So, you can go that route (NOVA, AEON, GEOS, ECC, Altia, James English
> School, Peppy Kids Club, Language House, American Language School, Westgate
> Corporation, and the JET programme), or you can fill your pockets with money
> (about US$4000) and come here to improve the odds.
From what i've read NOVA, AEON and those guys have horrible hours and
work you to death. I'm just wondering if I fly to japan, say next week
as a tourist, will it be dificult to find a school to work at? Will I
be unable to begin working for 2-4 months while I wait for my work
visa?
Michael Cash
belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>> What kind of teaching are you interested in? University? Kindergarten?
>> Language school (eikaiwa)? They have different requirements.
>
>I would prefer to teach adults rather than children... I dont care if
>it's at a university.
>
>> apply for a work visa, and that requires a bachelor's degree. Do you have one?
>
>yes I have a B.S\M.S\MBA
What? No BYJW?
>
>>
>> You have very few places that will interview/hire/sponsor you from outside
>> Japan. So, you can go that route (NOVA, AEON, GEOS, ECC, Altia, James English
>> School, Peppy Kids Club, Language House, American Language School, Westgate
>> Corporation, and the JET programme), or you can fill your pockets with money
>> (about US$4000) and come here to improve the odds.
>
>From what i've read NOVA, AEON and those guys have horrible hours and
>work you to death.
"Work" would be something of an overstatement. However, it *can* be a
very irritating way to spend your day.
>I'm just wondering if I fly to japan, say next week
>as a tourist, will it be dificult to find a school to work at?
Yes.
>Will I be unable to begin working for 2-4 months while I wait for my work
>visa?
Legally, yes. In actuality, no.
Louise Bremner
> From what i've read NOVA, AEON and those guys have horrible hours and
> work you to death. I'm just wondering if I fly to japan, say next week
> as a tourist, will it be dificult to find a school to work at?
Can't help you there....
> Will I be unable to begin working for 2-4 months while I wait for my work
> visa?
In practice, you can start working as soon as you've applied to convert
your visa (presumably you'll come in on a tourist visa). Provided, of
course, you are a decent law-abiding person who doesn't engage in
activities that fall outside the scope of your prospective visa....
Louise Bremner
> What is exactly needed is a japan established company that ... engage
> itsef to immigration to fork out at least 250.000 Yen/month for the guy.
The wording of the contract is usually such that the guarantor promises
to ensure that the employee will receive that amount a month.
cc
" Louise Bremner" <dame_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > Will I be unable to begin working for 2-4 months while I wait for my
work
> > visa?
>
> In practice, you can start working as soon as you've applied to convert
> your visa (presumably you'll come in on a tourist visa).
Certainly not. You have to wait for the visa. What you say is right when
it's about converting from a visa that allows you to work to another with
the same possibility. Maybe working holidays can go on working while waiting
the new visa, but not tourists !
>Provided, of
> course, you are a decent law-abiding person who doesn't engage in
> activities that fall outside the scope of your prospective visa....
I'd say that if you cheat, you have 10 000 less chances of getting caught by
the Immigration working in a bar that pays you in cash than starting with
your sponsor in advance.
These days they check eikaiwai employers more often and are able to visit
schools to see the people "waiting for a visa" are not already teaching and
they check the bank accounts of both the school and candidate for a visa.
If they catch someone working without visa, it's deportation ! There are a
few recent stories like that in Osaka. They even checked and deported people
at organisations that were much more "serious looking" (if not
"official"...) than eikaiwa.
The teachers are no longer in Japan, never saw them again ! And they did
only 3 or 4 hours a week !
CC
cc
"Jean-Marc Desperrier" <jmd...@alussinan.org> wrote in message
Tiens Jean-Marc, ca fait longtemps ! Ca va ?
> GHill18299 wrote:
> > [...] Even if you are in Japan on a tourist visa, you might have to
leave
> > the country to process that work visa (usually in Seoul),
>> which requires more
> > money out of your pocket. Many places are not requiring you to leave
Japan,
> > but this is only a trend, not something that happens 100% of the time.
A trend 5 years ago.
> Officially, you are 100% *required* to leave Japan to get the Visa.
No, that used to be.
The rules changed. Now you have 2 possibilities :
1 : changing without living Japan, (forms done at the Immigration)
2: changing outside Japan, (forms done at a Japanese consulate/embassy of
your choice)
You select 1 or 2 when you bring the application for working visa. The
problem is they let you take option 1 only if your tourist (whatever) visa
has still about 2 months of validity and you have an adress in Japan to
receive the answer. If not, they consider you will no longer be in Japan to
receive their answer.
What you can do is apply for a 3 month extension (as tourist) of your
current visa. For that you have to convince the Immig staff you are rich
enough to stay there as a tourist living on your personal fortune (not
difficult, or you go there with your false rolex/vuitton bag and look rich,
or you show them you have something like 500 000 yen in traveler checks,
bank books, etc). Then, you apply for working visa.
If you take option 2, you can take any country on earth (except North-Korea,
etc), but you have to make sure you can receive mail there ( 1 week to 4
months after applying) and you can go there at that time do the form....+
you may have to leave Japan and wait somewhere after your tourist visa is
over.
> What is exactly needed is a japan established company that does the
> paperwork and engage itsef to immigration to fork out at least 250.000
> Yen/month for the guy.
The 250 000 yen limit also disappeared. They can accept less, they can also
ask more. Depends on..... Well, you need a real work contract from a real
company.
CC
Michael Cash
belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>
>" Louise Bremner" <dame_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>> > Will I be unable to begin working for 2-4 months while I wait for my
>work
>> > visa?
>>
>> In practice, you can start working as soon as you've applied to convert
>> your visa (presumably you'll come in on a tourist visa).
>
>Certainly not. You have to wait for the visa. What you say is right when
>it's about converting from a visa that allows you to work to another with
>the same possibility. Maybe working holidays can go on working while waiting
>the new visa, but not tourists !
When I returned to Japan this time, my BN-S-YJW came ahead of me by a
couple of months and failed to send to me in time the papers I needed
to apply for a re-issuance of my spouse visa while still in the US. So
I came back on a tourist visa. Immigration wasn't too happy about me
showing up with a tourist visa and then changing to a spouse visa, but
there I was and there wasn't much that could be done about it.
Anyway, I needed a spouse visa so I could go to work. But I needed to
show some proof of gainful employment to help the spouse visa thingy
along. Catch-22.
I told the Immigration folks in Takasaki that I would like to look for
work and begin working, but since I couldn't actually work until I got
the visa it was going to add a level of complication to the job
hunting process. In my field, despite having the appropriate licenses
and work experience, my skin condition makes it hard to get
prospective employers to even agree to interview me. I certainly
couldn't ask them to promise me a spot, do some paperwork for me, and
hold the spot until my visa was issued. I *could* ask, but since it
would be easier to fill the spot with a Japanese candidate and avoid
the hassle, it would pretty much ensure I would *not* get a job.
Know what the Immigration people told me?
They said to go ahead and find a job and start working anyway. Yes, it
would technically be illegal, but since the eventual issuance of a
visa was pretty much a sure thing and I had a family to provide for in
the meantime, it was a "shikata ga nai" situation. So, with their
blessing, I found a job and went to work. On a tourist visa.
Immigration can very much be a YMMV proposition.
>
>>Provided, of
>> course, you are a decent law-abiding person who doesn't engage in
>> activities that fall outside the scope of your prospective visa....
>
>I'd say that if you cheat, you have 10 000 less chances of getting caught by
>the Immigration working in a bar that pays you in cash than starting with
>your sponsor in advance.
Note to the original poster: In your situation, what cc is saying
*does* apply. Go ahead and do things the right way to begin with and
you will likely save yourself some headaches down the line.
>
>These days they check eikaiwai employers more often and are able to visit
>schools to see the people "waiting for a visa" are not already teaching and
>they check the bank accounts of both the school and candidate for a visa.
Do they actually do that?
>If they catch someone working without visa, it's deportation ! There are a
>few recent stories like that in Osaka. They even checked and deported people
>at organisations that were much more "serious looking" (if not
>"official"...) than eikaiwa.
>The teachers are no longer in Japan, never saw them again ! And they did
>only 3 or 4 hours a week !
There was a case recently of a Chinese woman who was in Japan on a
student visa. She was caught working more than 20 hours per week and
ordered deported. She filed a civil suit requesting that her deportion
be stayed and that she be freed from detention pending an appeal of
her deportation order. In a very unusual ruling, the court displayed
some common sense and granted her request. Normally, people file an
appeal of their deportation and are deported before there is a
decision on the appeal. So that even if it is decided that the person
*not* be deported, it is already too late. I e-mailed The Dave and
asked him if he were going to make some public commentary on this
landmark case. For whatever reason, he chose not to reply to me and,
so far as I know, has made no mention of the case at all. Maybe the
woman was the wrong color to get his attention. I dunno.
Ken Yasumoto-Nicolson
<mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote:
>There was a case recently of a Chinese woman who was in Japan on a
>student visa. She was caught working more than 20 hours per week and
>ordered deported. She filed a civil suit requesting that her deportion
>be stayed and that she be freed from detention pending an appeal of
>her deportation order. In a very unusual ruling, the court displayed
>some common sense and granted her request. Normally, people file an
>appeal of their deportation and are deported before there is a
>decision on the appeal. So that even if it is decided that the person
>*not* be deported, it is already too late. I e-mailed The Dave and
>asked him if he were going to make some public commentary on this
>landmark case. For whatever reason, he chose not to reply to me and,
>so far as I know, has made no mention of the case at all.
It had a good, successful, happy, sensible outcome, AND it didn't
include him. Why would he publicise it?
>Maybe the
>woman was the wrong color to get his attention. I dunno.
Actually, right now there's a bit of a debate on gaigin crime stats on
the ex-Dave's mailing list, and the feeling I am picking up is that
when Japanese people talk about "gaigin hansai", they, the honest,
hard-working non-Asian, gainfully employed teacher-clowns feel
included along with all the wiley chinkies -- sorry sangogugins, --
sorry, fine upstanding, except for all the criminal, Chinese.
Ken
Jean-Marc Desperrier
> Anyway, I needed a spouse visa so I could go to work. But I needed to
> show some proof of gainful employment to help the spouse visa thingy
> along. Catch-22.
First time, I read you need employment to get a spouse visa.
And I think the case of gaijin wifes coming to Japan without any intent
to work is very frequent, so it *is* really strange.
You say you could have had it easily before coming, but needed the
employment because you were already in japan with a tourist visa.
But it doesn't help me make more sense of it.
Is that an outdated thing or an unofficial requirement ?
So does this only apply to men, or to cases where the japanese national
spouse does not work ?
cc
"Michael Cash" <mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote in message
> They said to go ahead and find a job and start working anyway. Yes, it
> would technically be illegal, but since the eventual issuance of a
> visa was pretty much a sure thing and I had a family to provide for in
> the meantime, it was a "shikata ga nai" situation. So, with their
> blessing, I found a job and went to work. On a tourist visa.
> Immigration can very much be a YMMV proposition.
I don't know what YMMV means, but they make the rules and are the only ones
that can allow you not to follow them. Several of my acquaintances also
beneficiated of "favors", but always like you, because it was a "shikata ga
nai" situation due to a mistake.
> >These days they check eikaiwai employers more often and are able to visit
> >schools to see the people "waiting for a visa" are not already teaching
and
> >they check the bank accounts of both the school and candidate for a visa.
>
> Do they actually do that?
They did it a few month ago...for teachers employed by a little organisation
funded by my country's tax money (as if they couldn't pay themselves on the
benefits they do !). I don't know all the details probably the Immig. gave a
few days to the teachers to leave, and I've heard from the organisation's
staff that the "punishment" of the employer had not yet been decided.
You know, all those people were so sure that their relation network
protected them from everything. They have gone a step too far and probably
the Japanese administration was pissed off.
McNova had problems in their times (over 10yr ago), since then, they have
obeyed the rules very carefully. Certainly the big chains no longer try
little illegallities, they know that's cheaper to follow the rules, they
make the teachers wait for their visas.
The small schools, that's another story...I've worked for several ones whose
bosses also said they had "enough high-placed relations to do what they
wanted". Let's wait and see.
My understanding was the "simplification" of visa procedures was done to let
more time to let more time to Immigration staff to deal with that sort of
client.
Anyway, the teacher is always the most punished as after deportation they
cannot come back to Japan during years.
> There was a case recently of a Chinese woman who was in Japan on a
> student visa. She was caught working more than 20 hours per week and
> ordered deported. She filed a civil suit requesting that her deportion
> be stayed and that she be freed from detention pending an appeal of
> her deportation order. In a very unusual ruling, the court displayed
> some common sense and granted her request.
She is lucky, or she was the first that new how to adress correctly her
request.
> I e-mailed The Dave
I suppose that girl is not waiting anything from him.
CC
Michael Cash
<jmd...@alussinan.org> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>Michael Cash wrote:
>> Anyway, I needed a spouse visa so I could go to work. But I needed to
>> show some proof of gainful employment to help the spouse visa thingy
>> along. Catch-22.
>
>First time, I read you need employment to get a spouse visa.
http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/05.html#b
Scroll halfway down and look at 1 b.
>And I think the case of gaijin wifes coming to Japan without any intent
>to work is very frequent, so it *is* really strange.
Japan would never have a sexist policy. Never.
>
>You say you could have had it easily before coming, but needed the
>employment because you were already in japan with a tourist visa.
>But it doesn't help me make more sense of it.
I *had* an income before coming. I had *no* income after arriving.
>
>Is that an outdated thing or an unofficial requirement ?
Probably both and neither.
>So does this only apply to men, or to cases where the japanese national
>spouse does not work ?
Probably both.
Dave Fossett
> First time, I read you need employment to get a spouse visa.
> And I think the case of gaijin wifes coming to Japan without any intent
> to work is very frequent, so it *is* really strange.
I don't know whether you *need* employment to get a spouse visa, but the
application and approval process seems to put a lot of emphasis on providing
proof of income and the previous year's tax returns, which seems to suggest
that it would be harder if you weren't employed.
--
Dave Fossett
Saitama, Japan
The 2-Belo
>I don't know what YMMV means
Your Mileage May Vary.
--
The 2-Belo
the2belo[AT]msd[DOT]biglobe[DOT]ne[DOT]jp
news:alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk (mhm21x20)
news:alt.fan.karl-malden.nose (Meow.)
http://www.godhatesjanks.org/ (God Hates Janks!)
Processing failed. Hit any user to continue.
Declan Murphy
> On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:45:29 +0900, "cc" <cpasune...@spam.com>
> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>>These days they check eikaiwai employers more often and are able to visit
>>schools to see the people "waiting for a visa" are not already teaching and
>>they check the bank accounts of both the school and candidate for a visa.
>
> Do they actually do that?
The former? - yes. Random (and not so random) checks do occur of
workplaces. Do they check the bank accounts of the business/school? -
no. Given the penalties that auditors face, it is much easier to inspect
the books. Do they check the accounts of the candidate? - its not really
practical or possible.
--
A hand on the bush is worth two birds on the arm.
Declan Murphy
> <snip>Depends on..... Well, you need a real work contract from a real
> company.
A candidate will need a "real work contract", but the sponsor does not
necessarily need to be a "real company" - ie a registered company. I
currently manage two businesses - one a KK, the other kojinkeiei.
Through the KK I have so far sponsored nine work visas (6 Humanities, 2
Engineer for candidates from 7 different countries plus my own investor
visas). For the second business I am thinking of hiring a foreign
national - immigration wrote to me last week confirming that I do not
need to first convert the business from kojinkeiei to yuugen or KK
status. Though I will of course need to prove through documentation that
it is a "real" business.
Louise Bremner
> > In practice, you can start working as soon as you've applied to convert
> > your visa (presumably you'll come in on a tourist visa).
>
> Certainly not. You have to wait for the visa. What you say is right when
> it's about converting from a visa that allows you to work to another with
> the same possibility.
Whups.... Either that has changed since I switched, or... um... yes, it
must have changed.