Rei vanishing...
Schmuck
randomly appears to Shinji at the beginning of the series and then at the
very end of EoE? In the former, she was being treated for her wounds from
her failed activation test at the time so it doesn't make sense to me what
Shinji was doing seeing someone he'd never met...
Also, is it a big argument in this newsgroup whether Nakao's soul is in Unit
00 or not? I can understand how it works out, what with the Eva attacking
Gendo and Rei, but it still seems unlikely.
--
Schmuck
AIM: Schmuck65
Zatoichi
>I'm sure this topic has come up before, but does anyone know why Rei
>randomly appears to Shinji at the beginning of the series and then at the
>very end of EoE? In the former, she was being treated for her wounds from
>her failed activation test at the time so it doesn't make sense to me what
>Shinji was doing seeing someone he'd never met...
Yeah, I don't think it's ever officially explained.. Just make up your
own conclusions.. In EoE it seemed like Rei appeared in front of
people right before they died, like an angel of death or something..
>Also, is it a big argument in this newsgroup whether Nakao's soul is in Unit
>00 or not? I can understand how it works out, what with the Eva attacking
>Gendo and Rei, but it still seems unlikely.
>
>--
>Schmuck
>AIM: Schmuck65
Arguement? heh.. Well, I guess I think it's Naoko too.. It does seem
hard for me to understand that though, I always thought they picked
the pilots/souls so that they would synch easy, and it never seemed to
me like Rei would be able to synch with Naoko that well.. But maybe
since its a 'new' Rei the situation is different, hell I dunno. There
really is no correct answer, it's just whatever people think. All the
signs point to it being Naoko though, if you ask me.
-Chris
Frank White
Schm...@att.net says...
>
>I'm sure this topic has come up before, but does anyone know why Rei
>randomly appears to Shinji at the beginning of the series and then at the
>very end of EoE? In the former, she was being treated for her wounds from
>her failed activation test at the time so it doesn't make sense to me what
>Shinji was doing seeing someone he'd never met...
No one has come up with a good explaination for Rei's ghostly
appearance to Shinji. Except that he experienced a moment of
precognition and saw the person who would have the most impact
on his life from that point on...
>Also, is it a big argument in this newsgroup whether Nakao's soul is in
Unit
>00 or not? I can understand how it works out, what with the Eva attacking
>Gendo and Rei, but it still seems unlikely.
It simply does not seem possible. We don't think she had time
BEFORE she did her swan dive to synch with 00, and we know she
didn't have time AFTER, so that seems to be out. Admittedly it
looks as if the show was headed that way, but it just doesn't
seem to work out.
Besides, if her soul IS in anything, it's probably in the Magi...
FW
Michael Wignall
news:acIX9.125460$hK4.10...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Also, is it a big argument in this newsgroup whether Nakao's
> soul is in Unit 00 or not? I can understand how it works out,
> what with the Eva attacking Gendo and Rei, but it still seems
> unlikely.
My standard reply to Naoko/Eva-00 theories.
I personally think that the 'Naoko in Eva-00' theory is one of the most
unsupported in all of Eva fandom.
Spoilers for the series ahead.
First lets clear up the "Eva-00 attacking people" episodes. A lot of people
put forward Gendou or Rei as possible targets for Eva-00. If you watch the
episodes closely though it is clear that Ritsuko is the intended target.
The first incident happened in Episode 05. From that episode:
------------------------------
Misato:
Well, what was the cause of the accident of the last experiment?
Ritsuko:
It's unidentified even now. But the primary cause is estimated to be a
mental instability of the pilot.
Misato:
A mental instability? That Rei?
Ritsuko:
Yes. She was disturbed much more than we could expect.
Misato:
What was happening?
Ritsuko:
I don't know. But she might have ...
Misato:
Do you have any idea?
Ritsuko:
No, that can't be.
------------------------------
Here it is clear that Ritsuko has and idea about what caused it. People
assume that Eva-00 was attacking either Rei or Gendou because they were
standing closest. But Ritsuko was also there too, in fact she was running
the experiment.
Ok now the next time Eva-00 goes nuts is with Shinji in it in Episode 14,
I'll look into this sequence a little deeper later, for now I am just
interested in the following passage:
------------------------------
Misato:
Is it that it tried to kill Rei? That Unit Zero tried?
---------
Misato:
This incident has something to do with that incident of going wild? That
incident of Rei?
Ritsuko:
Nothing I can say now. One thing I can say now is, after returning the
personal data of Rei to Unit Zero, another synchronization test between Rei
and Unit Zero is necessary.
Misato:
As the planning manager, I request you to do it immediately, before it
troubles our job.
Ritsuko:
I know. Sansa Katsuragi.
Ritsuko:
The target that Unit Zero tried to attack must have been I. No doubt.
------------------------------
Ritsuko says "machigai naku" which means "without a doubt". Ritsuko thinks
that Misato is wrong, that Eva-00 wasn't attacking Rei, it was attacking
her. Linking this with what she said in Episode 05 it is clear that Ritsuko
knows why Eva-00 is attacking her. Ritsuko probably knows more about the
Eva's than anyone else alive, she would certainly know whose souls were
inside of them. She knew that Eva-00 was after her.
So we have two incidents of Eva-00 going crazy. One with Rei inside, where
Ritsuko thought she knew what was wrong, and the second with Shinji inside,
where, upon hearing Misato speculate that it was after Rei, Ritsuko
disagrees thinking that it must have been after her. Ritsuko states that she
is the target "without a doubt", you don't get much clearer than that.
Now an important thing to consider when thinking about whose soul is in
Eva-00 is the nature of the synchronisation process between pilot and Eva.
It is the A-10 nerve link that is responsibly for the connection between the
pilot and the Eva (so says Sadamoto in an interview in the first collected
Manga, and so is described in the EoE Theatrical Program). The A-10 nerve is
what the Eva's connections are built around.
So keeping that in mind, lets look at the pilot candidates. All of the
children in Shinji's class are potential Eva pilots (so described by Ritsuko
in episode 17), the EoE theatrical program also states this fact, and goes
further to say that what is common between these children is that they have
all "lost" their mothers.
We have a class of motherless children who are potential pilots for the
Evas. Now we also have two pilots whose mother's souls are in their Evas
(Shinji and Yui in Eva-01 and Asuka and Kyouko in Eva-02). Add this to the
fact that the A-10 nerve, a critical component of the synchronisation
process is described in the Death and Rebirth Deluxe Theatrical Program as
playing, "an important role in affection between parent and child" I think
it is clear that the basis of the Eva/pilot connection is a mother/child
relationship.
This is all just ground work that goes to show why Naoko isn't a possible
candidate for the soul of Eva-00.
So lets go back to episode 14.
------------------------------
First Compatibility Experiment
Subject: Rei Ayanami
Ritsuko: The sync-ratio is almost the same, as with Unit Zero.
Maya: Unit Zero and Unit One's personal data patterns, are almost identical.
Ritsuko: That's what makes this sync experiment possible.
Maya: Error margin is 0.03. Harmonics are normal.
Ritsuko: No detectable problems found for compatibility between Rei and Unit
One.
Ritsuko: Ok, the test is over, Rei. You can get out now.
Rei: Yes.
------------------------------
Here Ritsuko states that the reason the experiment is possible, the reason
that Rei can pilot Eva-01, is that Eva-01 and Eva-00's personal data
patterns are almost identical. That means that being in Eva-01 is almost
identical to the being in Eva-00, so much so that both Rei _and_ Shinji can
pilot it. I think that Rei can pilot Eva-01, can synch with Yui, because Rei
is effectively Yui's child, Rei is a clone of Yui and thus there is a link
there.
There is a link between Rei and Yui, and thus between Eva-01 and Eva-00.
Note that Asuka and Eva-02 are not involved in these compatibility tests.
Keep in mind throughout this explanation the need for a mother/child link
established above. In my opinion the only reason Rei can pilot Eva-01 and
Shinji can pilot Eva-00, is because the souls of Eva-00 and Eva-01 are
similar, and are similar specifically in a mother/child way.
Now lets move only Shinji's test.
------------------------------
Ritsuko:
A-10 Nerve connection started.
Announce:
Harmonics Level plus 20.
Shinji:
WOW, what's this? Something is entering directly into my head, what?
Ayanami? Ayanami Rei? It's Rei, this feeling is Rei's. Ayanami? Aren't you?
Misato:
What's the matter?
Announce:
Pilot's nerve-plus in irregular.
Maya:
Psychological pollution is taking place.
Ritsuko:
Unbelievable! This plug depth does not trigger that.
Maya:
No, Not from the plug. The invasion from Eva.
------------------------------
Ok so three points from this scene.
(1) Note that this sequence starts when the A-10 Nerve connection is made.
(2) Maya says that the contact is coming from the Eva, not the plug. So what
Shinji is seeing, what is entering his head is coming from the Eva itself.
In my opinion this contact is coming from the soul of Eva-00.
(3) Shinji first recognises this presence as Rei. Then realises that there
is something strange about her, that it isn't really Rei, it is a strange
smiling childish Rei that isn't the Rei he knows.
My interpretation of this scene is as follow: We have Shinji being
"contacted" by the Eva's soul, and Shinji "recognising" this contact as
coming from something Rei-like.
Just a few things to consider.
1. The Eva's work on a mother/child link.
2. Rei and Shinji are compatible in each other's Evas because those Evas
have similar personality patterns.
3. Ritsuko states that Eva-00 attacked her "without a doubt".
4. Shinji sees something "Rei-like" coming from Eva-00 itself.
So whose soul is in Eva-00? Well it would have to be someone similar to Yui,
and capable of forming a mother/child link with Shinji. It would also have
to have a grudge against Ritsuko.
In my opinion Naoko doesn't even come into the picture. She had nothing to
do with the Evas, she wasn't an Eva scientist, she was there to work on the
Magi. She was a computer scientist, not involved directly in Project E like
Yui or Kyouko. She certainly doesn't fit the role of a "mother" to either
Shinji or Rei. As far as I can see, the only think she has going for her as
a possible candidate is that she is dead and a woman.
--
Michael Wignall
"Tomorrow's just an excuse away..."
Zatoichi
<use...@mdwigs.tk> wrote:
<snip>
>Just a few things to consider.
>
>1. The Eva's work on a mother/child link.
>2. Rei and Shinji are compatible in each other's Evas because those Evas
>have similar personality patterns.
>3. Ritsuko states that Eva-00 attacked her "without a doubt".
>4. Shinji sees something "Rei-like" coming from Eva-00 itself.
>
>So whose soul is in Eva-00? Well it would have to be someone similar to Yui,
>and capable of forming a mother/child link with Shinji. It would also have
>to have a grudge against Ritsuko.
>
>In my opinion Naoko doesn't even come into the picture. She had nothing to
>do with the Evas, she wasn't an Eva scientist, she was there to work on the
>Magi. She was a computer scientist, not involved directly in Project E like
>Yui or Kyouko. She certainly doesn't fit the role of a "mother" to either
>Shinji or Rei. As far as I can see, the only think she has going for her as
>a possible candidate is that she is dead and a woman.
>
>--
>Michael Wignall
>"Tomorrow's just an excuse away..."
Holy crap, great post man.. I'm gonna have to save that one.. You're
right though, it really doesn't seem like it is Naoko to me anymore.
But that leaves the question of who? The only thing I can think of, is
that the eerie smiling-kid-rei reminds me of the '18th Angel' in EoE's
somewhat similar smile.. I don't know what that might mean, or even if
it means anything.. But it's all I can think of.
-Chris
Jonathan Ford
The incompatibilities between Rei and Unit 00 can be caused the following,
Since Lilith rebelled against Adam, it could be the same story here. We know
Rei's soul is Lilith's, and that EVA 00 is a clone of Adam. This may be
where all the trouble starts. Remember when Rei meet's Kaoru? She seemed
very uneasy around him (i don't believe it was because he was a clone like
her, but maybe it was the fact that he contained part of Adam's DNA). The
fact that EVA 00 attacks Gendo, the cause of this may have been that Gendo
himself caused teh awakening of Adam in Antartica causing 2nd impact.
"Michael Wignall" <use...@mdwigs.tk> wrote in message
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Frank White
zato...@zatoichi.zatoichi says...
>
>On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:56:32 +1000, "Michael Wignall"
><use...@mdwigs.tk> wrote:
> <snip>
>>Just a few things to consider.
>>
>>1. The Eva's work on a mother/child link.
Or some close relationship. Rei, after all, doesn't have a
mother; but whatever's in Unit 00 is close enough for her to
synch with. It would be a bit hard to believe even NERV
would be prescient enough to put Toji's mother in Unit 03
years before he was chosen as the Fourth Child.
Ah, but putting his SISTER in there...
There's lots of speculation on this.
One idea is that it is some aspect of Lillith. Souls aren't
supposed to be divisible; but it might be a copy, or perhaps
Lillith's soul is different and it would be possible for her
to be in Rei and EVA-00 at the same time. And Lillith would
be able to synch with any human or demi-human because she is,
after all, the mother of us all...
Another suggestion is that it's MISATO'S mother in there,
that Misato was originally intended to be one of the
Children (until they discovered she was too old), and NERV
- having her mother available and unprotected following
Second Impact - used her. The problem is, it is unclear
why Rei and Shinji would be able to synch with her. Although
it DOES give a different interpretation to the scene of Unit
00 attacking the observation window: She's not trying to
get Ritsuko or even Gendo, she's trying to reach her
daughter and rescue her from what she knows are enemies.
If Yui had any sisters or her mother was still alive (Gendo's
mother, too, for that matter), I'd be dubious about their
fate, under the circumstances.
But the bottom line is, we don't know.
FW
Diamon
news:3e2ff...@corp.newsgroups.com...
> How 'bout this theory??
>
> The incompatibilities between Rei and Unit 00 can be caused the following,
> Since Lilith rebelled against Adam, it could be the same story here. We
know
> Rei's soul is Lilith's, and that EVA 00 is a clone of Adam. This may be
> where all the trouble starts. Remember when Rei meet's Kaoru? She seemed
> very uneasy around him (i don't believe it was because he was a clone like
> her, but maybe it was the fact that he contained part of Adam's DNA). The
> fact that EVA 00 attacks Gendo, the cause of this may have been that Gendo
> himself caused teh awakening of Adam in Antartica causing 2nd impact.
But then wouldn't be uneasy around everyone since all humanity is "of Adam"?
Of course for that matter when do we ever see Rei at ease? Maybe one scene
in the whole series? (When Shinji see her talking to Gendou alone.)
Jonathan Ford
Humanity wasn't created by Adam, but by Lillith...
"Diamon" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:nCTX9.111998$GF.28...@twister.columbus.rr.com...
Matt Durrant
"Schmuck" <Schm...@att.net> wrote in message
news:acIX9.125460$hK4.10...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> randomly appears to Shinji at the beginning of the series and then at the
> very end of EoE? In the former, she was being treated for her wounds from
> her failed activation test at the time so it doesn't make sense to me what
> Shinji was doing seeing someone he'd never met...
Isn't it something like Rei is the beginning and the end, the Alpha and the
Omega?
Diamon
subject of Lilith rebelling against Adam came into play). Yes indeed
humanity is of Lilith in Eva.
"Jonathan Ford" <adm...@galactica.it> wrote in message
news:3e300...@corp.newsgroups.com...
Chris Hutchinson
"Frank White" <fwhite*NOSPAM*@colfax.com> wrote in message
news:b0oupd$cfg$2...@news.fsr.net...
Zatoichi
wrote:
I wonder if the manga elaborates on this any further.. But I guess the
manga changes alot of things, so it wouldn't be an 'official' answer
anyway. I suppose having so many mysteries with Eva is part of its
lasting appeal though. It makes sense that they might have wanted to
use Misato as the 'first child' back then though, since she seemed to
look about the right age (at the time after second impact) and having
lost a mother.. It could have been that by the time a working
prototype was finished she was already too old to be a potential
candidate. But it doesn't really make sense that Rei and Shinji would
be able to synch with her.. Or why shinji would see Rei's image inside
of it..
I think it has to be some kind of essence of lillith.. Maybe it has
something to do with episode 23, when the angel is talking to Rei.
-Chris
Ian Richards
forget that Yui actually died in one of the very first synchronisation
tests. In fact when they try and get Shinji back after his 400% synch ratio
Ritsuko hints that it was a the failiure of the recovery attempt that led to
her death but what if she disn't die but was absorbed into the Eva?
"Zatoichi" <zato...@zatoichi.zatoichi> wrote in message
news:3e306c0b....@news.la.sbcglobal.net...
Kakarotto
one said in the ng that maybe it is a compy or a part of reis/liliths soul,
and when shinji feels reis essence inviading its becuase 00 doenst have a
whole soul and it wants more so its trying to get his.
Chris Hutchinson
the
> Omega?
Thats one depressing begining and end if it is.
Matt Durrant
"Chris Hutchinson" <bantam@_REMOVEMEFIRST_bantambunny.com> wrote in message
news:MY9Y9.7710$T34....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
Zatoichi
<ian.ri...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>I think its very probably the original Yui inhabiting Unit 00 because don't
>forget that Yui actually died in one of the very first synchronisation
>tests. In fact when they try and get Shinji back after his 400% synch ratio
>Ritsuko hints that it was a the failiure of the recovery attempt that led to
>her death but what if she disn't die but was absorbed into the Eva?
Yeah, I think in EoE Fuyutsuki (sp?) said something along the lines of
"After all, thats why she chose to stay in the eva".. I'm pretty sure
he was referring to Yui, although I guess he could be referring to Rei
too. I think that means that Yui planned to go into the Eva all along,
to give it a soul, maybe even because they were planning to make
Shinji the pilot all along. What I don't get though, is if that was
the case, why Gendo would be so mean to his son. You'd think he'd want
to keep shinji around and raise him up like Rei so he could use him as
a puppet too. Instead he just acts like a complete bastard, even
though if shinji doesn't pilot Eva 01 all of his plans will be ruined.
-Chris
[DFC]cOwMoO
"Frank White" <fwhite*NOSPAM*@colfax.com> wrote > Schm...@att.net says...
> >Also, is it a big argument in this newsgroup whether Nakao's soul is in
> Unit
> >00 or not? I can understand how it works out, what with the Eva
attacking
> >Gendo and Rei, but it still seems unlikely.
Maybe unit-00 has no soul, because in episode 23 before Rei self-destructs
she says that if she leaves unit00 the AT field will cease to be. No Soul =
No AT Field??
Just a theory...