unwinnable?
davide
to burn my things and thought it was a good idea to put everything
into my BOH.
Including a /oC.
You know, ka-blamm, etc...
Problem is, among variuos very useful thingies there were all my
candles.
Suppose I am stubborn enough to go further down, is there any
chance of finding again enough candles?
Or I'd better #quit?
Martin Crisp
(in message <d8ff3821.04041...@posting.google.com>):
[BoH + /oCancel -> no candles, at Asmodeus]
> Suppose I am stubborn enough to go further down, is there any
> chance of finding again enough candles?
> Or I'd better #quit?
The odds aren't spectacular, but are rather better than they may
seem. Vs lbh unir gur zrnaf sbe trarengvat fbzr zbafgref gura lbh
zvtug urnq sbe gur zvarf, fvapr vgrz trarengvba vf fxrjrq gbjneqf
gbbyf (nvhv... pbeerpgvbaf?).
1) candles can be generated in multiples.
2) there are other ways of getting candles than by
direct-generation
Are you sure you've exhausted the usual places to find candles?
Have Fun
Martin
--
Playing NH3.4.3 in TTY or Qt on Mac OS X
Philipp Lucas
> Stupid me, I was at Asomdeus', there was a fire trap, I didn't want
> to burn my things and thought it was a good idea to put everything
> into my BOH.
> Including a /oC.
> Suppose I am stubborn enough to go further down, is there any
> chance of finding again enough candles?
Polymorph tools or wish for the candles. One wish is sufficient to get
seven candles. You might want to polymorph potions or mix them to get
smoky potions and hope for a djinni.
--
Philipp Lucas
phl...@cs.uni-sb.de
Adriaan de Groot
> Stupid me, I was at Asomdeus', there was a fire trap, I didn't want
> to burn my things and thought it was a good idea to put everything
> into my BOH.
> Including a /oC.
I don't think wands burn (they can rust, though - I don't think
this affects them in any other way though), so that was (a) unfortunate
(b) overly cautious.
> Problem is, among variuos very useful thingies there were all my
> candles.
> Suppose I am stubborn enough to go further down, is there any
> chance of finding again enough candles?
It's accidents like these that can turn regular characters into almost-
extinctionists, sitting around killing beasts just waiting for them
to drop candles.
You can always wish for 7 candles, if you've got a spare wish or can
get one (from thrones, smoky potions, fountains). Or polypile for them.
Or just find them lying around, it's not impossible - my current healer
has found 5 candles in gehennom, just lying about. Of course, that
was once another 7 candles were already firmly attached to the
Candelabrum.
I always leave the candles in minetown alone until I have the Candelabrum,
then head back up, but 'em, attach them, and then continue. Once they're
attached, they're imprevious to everything AFAIK. (Can gelatinous cubes
eat tallow candles? That would be a bummer, to return to Izchak and find
a well-fed 'b' there.)
Boudewijn Waijers
> Stupid me, I was at Asomdeus', there was a fire trap, I didn't want
> to burn my things and thought it was a good idea to put everything
> into my BOH.
> Including a /oC.
> You know, ka-blamm, etc...
Accidents happen once in a while. I'm sure you didn't do it on purpose.
:-)
> Problem is, among variuos very useful thingies there were all my
> candles.
Only a minor problem...
> Suppose I am stubborn enough to go further down, is there any
> chance of finding again enough candles?
There is a chance, but you'll usually find them in smaller amounts than
you need.
> Or I'd better #quit?
Never.
You might also wish for 7 candles, you know? You didn't use up all charges
from the Castle wand, did you? That wand is there especially for cases
like this: to get items that you *really* need, not for "nice to have"
things, like magic markers and the like.
--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).
"No-one is smart enough to grasp his own stupidity."
-- Theo Maassen, Dutch comedian.
Jakob Creutzig
> Problem is, among variuos very useful thingies there were all my
> candles.
If you wish for seven wax candles, you'll get'em
without possibility of failure (AFAIK, CMIIW).
Hence, you have three possible sources: Finding,
wishing, polypiling. Finding chance is maxed in
the gnomish mines, I think. Polypiling tools is
tedious, but you don't waste a wish.
Best,
Jakob
Eric Wright
It'll be tough, but you can do it. Candles are a special exception to
the code governing wishes. If you can get a wish, you can get 7
candles.
On another note, there is only one thing I can think of that makes the
game unwinnable, and that is permanently (ie, not a helm of opposite
alignment) changing alignment before being accepted to the quest. Is
that it? Every other "major problem" has workarounds... Filled in
the holes on the castle level? Controlled level teleport down to the
valley. Lost all your stuff in a BoH explosion? Play like an
extinctionist until you find a way to get more. Dropped an invocation
artifact in lava/water? Freeze it!
Death? Well, yes... failure to avoid death can make the game
unwinnable ;-)
--
E... Time stands still as the succubus changes her calendar to January
1, 2000.
Boudewijn Waijers
> On another note, there is only one thing I can think of that makes the
> game unwinnable, and that is permanently (ie, not a helm of opposite
> alignment) changing alignment before being accepted to the quest. Is
> that it? Every other "major problem" has workarounds...
Accidentally going up the stairs at level 1 while carrying a cheap plastic
imitation of the Amulet of Yendor...
5parrow
> Eric Wright wrote:
>
>
>>On another note, there is only one thing I can think of that makes the
>>game unwinnable, and that is permanently (ie, not a helm of opposite
>>alignment) changing alignment before being accepted to the quest. Is
>>that it? Every other "major problem" has workarounds...
>
>
> Accidentally going up the stairs at level 1 while carrying a cheap plastic
> imitation of the Amulet of Yendor...
>
Well, in that case you should include dying and quitting in the list...
--
- 5parrowhawk (to email, please rearrange for the mail server at
Georgia Institute of Technology).
() ascii ribbon campaign | what "yaoi" really
/\ - against html e-mail | stands for:
- against M$ attachments | "yamete, oshiri itai".
Boudewijn Waijers
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>> Eric Wright wrote:
>>> On another note, there is only one thing I can think of that makes
>>> the game unwinnable, and that is permanently (ie, not a helm of
>>> opposite alignment) changing alignment before being accepted to the
>>> quest. Is that it? Every other "major problem" has workarounds...
>> Accidentally going up the stairs at level 1 while carrying a cheap
>> plastic imitation of the Amulet of Yendor...
> Well, in that case you should include dying and quitting in the
> list...
Eric already mentioned that, so I didn't feel like mentioning it again.
And since I didn't react to *that*, I didn't quote it either.
Dylan O'Donnell
> If you have the means for generating some monsters then you might
> head for the mines, since item generation is skewed towards tools
> (aiui... corrections?).
This is not the case; in fact, it's more skewed towards tools in
Gehennom (12%) than out of it (8%). What's there at level creation
time, on the other hand, is pretty good: there's a guaranteed tool on
each non-specific Mines level, two tools on the Mimic of the Mines or
Gnome King's Wine Cellar version of the end level (none guaranteed in
the Catacombs), and Minetown has one or two possible tool shops,
guaranteed in some versions thereof. But if you've already found all
of those, don't expect the Mines to be happy tool hunting ground.
--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "He puts evil in its place :
: With his martial arts and a stripy face!" :
: -- "Banzai Badger" theme tune :
Igor D. WonderLlama
> On another note, there is only one thing I can think of that makes the
> game unwinnable, and that is permanently (ie, not a helm of opposite
> alignment) changing alignment before being accepted to the quest. Is
> that it? Every other "major problem" has workarounds... Filled in
> the holes on the castle level? Controlled level teleport down to the
> valley. Lost all your stuff in a BoH explosion? Play like an
> extinctionist until you find a way to get more. Dropped an invocation
> artifact in lava/water? Freeze it!
There are certainly more ways than that, probably lots more. I think
there are some ways involving killing your quest leader when you are
either a wizard or have already destroyed the Eye of mispelling.
There are probably ways involving not having certain items in your
inventory, not having teleportitis or the spell, having certain types
of monsters genocided or extinct, and being completely surrounded by
water or walls. It might even be mathematically impossible to avoid
death if you are surrounded by blue jellies, and are low on damage
output, hit points, food, and piety.
Wes Irby
>
> il_da...@yahoo.com (davide) wrote in message news:<d8ff3821.04041...@posting.google.com>...
> > Suppose I am stubborn enough to go further down, is there any
> > chance of finding again enough candles?
> > Or I'd better #quit?
>
> It'll be tough, but you can do it. Candles are a special exception to
> the code governing wishes. If you can get a wish, you can get 7
> candles.
>
> On another note, there is only one thing I can think of that makes the
> game unwinnable, and that is permanently (ie, not a helm of opposite
> alignment) changing alignment before being accepted to the quest. Is
> that it? Every other "major problem" has workarounds... Filled in
> the holes on the castle level? Controlled level teleport down to the
> valley. Lost all your stuff in a BoH explosion? Play like an
> extinctionist until you find a way to get more. Dropped an invocation
> artifact in lava/water? Freeze it!
Is there a combination including a tourist wearing a cursed
ring of levitation with the PYEC and a horn of plenty on the
top level of the wizard's tower with nymphs genocided?
--
Wes
The early bird may get the worm,
but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Martin Crisp
(in message <86k70j1...@strackenz.spod-central.org>):
> Martin Crisp <Spoile...@tesseract.com.au> writes:
>> If you have the means for generating some monsters then you might
>> head for the mines, since item generation is skewed towards tools
>> (aiui... corrections?).
>
> This is not the case; in fact, it's more skewed towards tools in
[snip details]
Thanks much for setting me straight.
Daniel Morris
"Wes Irby" <w_i...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:407C6BCF...@hotmail.com...
lightning bolt. It'll pop that ring right off.
Danny
Martin Crisp
(in message <QH1fc.35038$467.7...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>):
>
> "Wes Irby" <w_i...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:407C6BCF...@hotmail.com...
>> Eric Wright wrote:
[snip earlier & Eric to...]
>>> that it? Every other "major problem" has workarounds... Filled in
>>> the holes on the castle level? Controlled level teleport down to
[snip examples]
>> Is there a combination including a tourist wearing a cursed
>> ring of levitation with the PYEC and a horn of plenty on the
>> top level of the wizard's tower with nymphs genocided?
> Nah, you just need to remove your reflection source and wait for a
> lightning bolt. It'll pop that ring right off.
If the horn is blessed (surely it is?), then there's a very easy
out.
Ray Chason
> On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:52:32 +1000, Daniel Morris wrote
> (in message <QH1fc.35038$467.7...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>):
>
>>
>> "Wes Irby" <w_i...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:407C6BCF...@hotmail.com...
[snip]
>>> Is there a combination including a tourist wearing a cursed
>>> ring of levitation with the PYEC and a horn of plenty on the
>>> top level of the wizard's tower with nymphs genocided?
>> Nah, you just need to remove your reflection source and wait for a
>> lightning bolt. It'll pop that ring right off.
>
> If the horn is blessed (surely it is?), then there's a very easy
> out.
For any problem with cursed levitation, all you need is a sink.
--
--------------===============<[ Ray Chason ]>===============--------------
This message was stage-managed by IBM. So say Darl McBride and SCO.
Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
Martin Crisp
(in message <107ph4c...@corp.supernews.com>):
> Martin Crisp wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:52:32 +1000, Daniel Morris wrote
>> (in message <QH1fc.35038$467.7...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>):
>>
>>>
>>> "Wes Irby" <w_i...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:407C6BCF...@hotmail.com...
>
> [snip]
>
>>>> Is there a combination including a tourist wearing a cursed
>>>> ring of levitation with the PYEC and a horn of plenty on the
>>>> top level of the wizard's tower with nymphs genocided?
>>> Nah, you just need to remove your reflection source and wait for a
>>> lightning bolt. It'll pop that ring right off.
>>
>> If the horn is blessed (surely it is?), then there's a very easy
>> out.
>
> For any problem with cursed levitation, all you need is a sink.
Not much help in the wizard's tower, though.
I suppose, to get to one, other methods such as level teleport or
c!oGL would work.
Boudewijn Waijers
> Daniel Morris wrote:
>> "Wes Irby" wrote...
>>> Is there a combination including a tourist wearing a cursed
>>> ring of levitation with the PYEC and a horn of plenty on the
>>> top level of the wizard's tower with nymphs genocided?
>> Nah, you just need to remove your reflection source and wait for a
>> lightning bolt. It'll pop that ring right off.
> If the horn is blessed (surely it is?), then there's a very easy
> out.
Spoil me.
And why would you waste a potion of holy water on a horn of plenty (unless
you have them in abundance)?
Seraphim
news:c5ir9j$v79$1...@news5.tilbu1.nb.home.nl:
> Martin Crisp wrote:
>> Daniel Morris wrote:
>>> "Wes Irby" wrote...
>
>>>> Is there a combination including a tourist wearing a cursed
>>>> ring of levitation with the PYEC and a horn of plenty on the
>>>> top level of the wizard's tower with nymphs genocided?
>
>>> Nah, you just need to remove your reflection source and wait for a
>>> lightning bolt. It'll pop that ring right off.
>
>> If the horn is blessed (surely it is?), then there's a very easy
>> out.
>
> Spoil me.
>
> And why would you waste a potion of holy water on a horn of plenty
> (unless you have them in abundance)?
Because a horn of plenty will give items that match it's bcu status, so
one of the items a blessed horn of plenty will produce is holy water.
This brings up the question, why would you think someone would want to
bless a horn of plenty if they had a abundance of holy wayer?
Eric Wright
Cursed or confused scroll of teleportation would certainly help. And
remember, Vlad's tower isn't part of Gehennom, so if you get out of
the wizard's tower, but are still below the entrance to Vlad's, you
can float up there and pray.
My original question wasn't supposed to be a "how can I arrange it so
that there's no (easy) way out of this predicament?" but more of a one
action kind of thing (like converting yourself pre-quest). I presume
killing your quest leader pre-quest is another way... but everything I
can think of is related to the quest (or the aforementioned
dying/quitting/escaping).
--
E... Inside a shop you better take a look at the price tags before
buying anything.
Martin Crisp
(in message <c5ir9j$v79$1...@news5.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>):
> Martin Crisp wrote:
>> Daniel Morris wrote:
>>> "Wes Irby" wrote...
>
>>>> Is there a combination including a tourist wearing a cursed
>>>> ring of levitation with the PYEC and a horn of plenty on the
>>>> top level of the wizard's tower with nymphs genocided?
>
>>> Nah, you just need to remove your reflection source and wait for a
>>> lightning bolt. It'll pop that ring right off.
>
>> If the horn is blessed (surely it is?), then there's a very easy
>> out.
>
> Spoil me.
Blessed horn -> blessed products, including water -> curse removal.
> And why would you waste a potion of holy water on a horn of plenty (unless
> you have them in abundance)?
Most of the things from a horn are preferable blessed, or it makes
no difference [cursed isn't so nice]. So blessing one can be a
useful investment. [Particularly if one of oil/acid/fruit
juice/sickness/booze is smoky]
Since it can produce water, it may be more useful to bless (or
curse!) it when short of dilution-worthy potions [would depend on
#charges and the %chance of water as a product].
There is also that slightly confusing way of blessing things
without water, so if you have no water at all, blessing the horn
may be /the/ best way of getting holy water.
james
Ray Chason <johnn...@southland.smartVERISIGNSUCKS.net> wrote:
>For any problem with cursed levitation, all you need is a sink.
You're not going to find that sink at the top of the tower, hence the
problem.