Computer animation jobs in Jp. for an American girl?
LRW
questions (for now) regarding a Westerner teaching English in Japan.
But how about this: My wife is getting her degree in computer
animation.
(The idea of living in Japan right now is just a distant dream--when
it becomes a closer goal, we'll of course be doing more industry
focused searching, but until then, I'd like to hear your opinions.)
What are the chances that this 32 year old (will likely be a few years
older by then) redhaired and freckled American woman (I can see that
as being either a big plus or a very big minus) with only little skill
at spoken Japanese of getting a decent job in Japan? (Tokyo or
otherwise?)
(I know, "decent" is a matter of opinion. Our unreachable dream is
between her computer animation and my teaching English we might
maintain a semblance of the very middle-class lifestyle we have.)
Any experience or opinions, I'd love to hear them!
Thanks!
Liam
druid-at-celticbear-dot-com
Bryce
"LRW" <de...@celticbear.com> wrote in message
news:3a1d1813.0310...@posting.google.com...
very small chance.
Michael Cash
<fuk...@takethisout.hotmail.com> belched the alphabet and kept on
going with:
I would tend to think so also. Not merely because of the things that
Liam has listed; all of those can be overcome. I was just wondering
how many gaigin-gaigin couples actually end up living and working here
on a long-term basis. There must be some....somewhere. Adapting to
life in a foreign country can be difficult, and I don't think there is
a gaigin here who hasn't on several occasions felt like grabbing
whatever will fit into a knapsack, running to the airport, and shaking
the dust of this place from his/her heels forever. Having a partner
who is native to a place helps provide some degree of incentive to
tough it out. In other words, it never happens that *both* partners
hit that phase of their gaiginhood at the same time.
But what of couples where both are gaigin and the Japan Honeymoon ends
at roughly the same time?
Liam, Japan is an exciting and fun place to be when you're entirely
ignorant of it. But as you move along through time, you reach a point
where the shine sort of wears off of it, you become more and more
aware of what's going on around you (and find that really, really
don't care for it), you weary of being essentially a overgrown child
incapable of functioning as an adult and you want to say to hell with
all of it. This happens to everybody. In fact, hang around long enough
and you discover that it ain't a one-time thing; it comes in cycles
and you'll do it over and over again, even though the instances do
become farther and farther between...provided you actually hang around
that long, that is.
If the two of you are looking to come over and fart about for a couple
or three years, then the prospects of earning a living wage and having
a pretty good time are actually quite strong. But if you're looking at
making some sort of more long-term move, such as raising your kids
here and living here at least until retirement, then you need to think
exceptionally long and exceptionally hard about this.
Think about it. Most of the people who come over and fart about for a
couple of years are fresh out of school, in their very early 20s. They
have the (usually mistaken) impression that having lived/worked in
Japan will be some sort of resume enhancer for when they return to the
"real world" to live out their lives. Whether it turns out that way or
not, at the age they return they are still relatively employable and
normally don't have the burden of being encumbered by a family. By the
time you actually get over here, spend two or three years, stare the
big FOUR-ZERO straight in the eyeball, and examine just where the hell
you are and just what the hell you're doing in/with your life....what
are your prospects at *that* point going to be? If things are going
great for you here and life is rosy, it won't be an issue. But if
you're hitting the typical "I have this fucking place!" part of the
cycle, maybe have the additional aggravation of being a parent in a
land which can sometimes seem like a nuthouse when it comes to
child-raising and education for those of us who came up in an entirely
different environment, AND feeling the impending hand of Father Time
creeping up on your aging ass and daily gnawing at you with the
question "Is it too late to get out of here and re-establish a normal
life/career back home? Or am I stuck where I am?"....well....then what
are you going to do?
Most folks who do this and are even halfway successful at it do it
much earlier and have the benefit (though it doesn't always seem one)
of having a Japanese spouse to provide support/incentives in more ways
than I feel like typing up at 3:21 in the goddamned morning when I
really ought to be in bed.
Michael Cash
<mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>you're hitting the typical "I have this fucking place!" part of the
"Hate", obviously.
Bryce
"Michael Cash" <mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote in message
news:8bbtpvkdsmq392mug...@4ax.com...
Couldn't have said it better Michael. I was scared as well.. If I don't get
out of here now... how am I ever going to join the "real" world in my own
country again? If you wait until you are 40 and 50 and move back to your own
country, and you can't do shit there, what's the point? You've gotta get out
before it's too late or stay the entire time.... whether it be because you
can't do shit in your own country and thus move to Japan, or you didn't go
to college and can't do shit and thus teach English in Japan, or whatever
the reason is.... you've gotta make that decision. Are you in it for the
long haul? Are you there to pick up chicks? Are you there to make a quick
buck and run? Some stay there too long and begin hating the place. Michael
was correct though that if you don't know much about the place it seems a
hell of a lot more fun and exciting... everything seems new and exciting.
>
>
Jean-Marc Desperrier
> [...] If you wait until you are 40 and 50 and move back to your own
> country, and you can't do shit there, what's the point? You've gotta get out
> before it's too late or stay the entire time....
I know one person who came back after 20 years. And he seems to be
getting along rather well :-)
Bryce
"Jean-Marc Desperrier" <jmd...@alussinan.org> wrote in message
news:bnmd1h$ra6$1...@reader1.imaginet.fr...
Welll, there's a good one then. 20 years is a long time. I can't even
imagine that.
Michael Cash
<jmd...@alussinan.org> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
Precisely why it is so difficult to answer questions such as the
original poster asked. It is impossible to state with certainty what
will happen.
They may succeed and live the life of Riley here, staying until they
die at a ripe old age. Or they may get disgusted and leave in six
months, taking with them a profound and everlasting hatred of Japan.
Or anything in between.
Bryce
It's bittersweet either way I think.
>
>
Fabian
> OK, I found a couple of threads here that answered most of my
> questions (for now) regarding a Westerner teaching English in Japan.
>
> But how about this: My wife is getting her degree in computer
> animation.
> (The idea of living in Japan right now is just a distant dream--when
> it becomes a closer goal, we'll of course be doing more industry
> focused searching, but until then, I'd like to hear your opinions.)
>
> What are the chances that this 32 year old (will likely be a few years
> older by then) redhaired and freckled American woman (I can see that
> as being either a big plus or a very big minus) with only little skill
> at spoken Japanese of getting a decent job in Japan? (Tokyo or
> otherwise?)
Unless your Japanese is near fluent (JLPT level 1 or better), getting a
job in Japan outside teaching English is the stuff that Twilight Zone
shows are made of. Oh, there are jobs supervising English teachers once
you've been one for a year or two, that needs no Japanese, and there are
the occassional job polishing poor translations.
--
--
Fabian
Visit my website often and for long periods!
http://www.lajzar.co.uk
Bryce
"Fabian" <laj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bnmpki$125ca5$3...@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
Or, there are a few water businesses you could get into. wink, wink
LRW
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:01:41 -0800, "Bryce"
> <fuk...@takethisout.hotmail.com> belched the alphabet and kept on
> going with:
> >
>
> I would tend to think so also. Not merely because of the things that
> Liam has listed; all of those can be overcome. I was just wondering
> how many gaigin-gaigin couples actually end up living and working here
Michael, some very good food for serious thought.
I really appreciate your taking the time to reply, and quite wisely, too.
Thanks!
Liam
Louise Bremner
> I was just wondering how many gaigin-gaigin couples actually end up living
> and working here on a long-term basis. There must be some....somewhere.
Hi there!
________________________________________________________________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!
Louise Bremner
> But how about this: My wife is getting her degree in computer
> animation.
> (The idea of living in Japan right now is just a distant dream--when
> it becomes a closer goal, we'll of course be doing more industry
> focused searching, but until then, I'd like to hear your opinions.)
>
> What are the chances that this 32 year old (will likely be a few years
> older by then) redhaired and freckled American woman ...
OK, which is she--a "girl" as in the title or a "woman" as in the text.
That's not a facetious comment, because it might govern your attitude.
("Your" = plural)
> (I can see that as being either a big plus or a very big minus) with only
> little skill at spoken Japanese of getting a decent job in Japan? (Tokyo
> or otherwise?)
As an animator? Slim-to-none, unless she can somehow magic up some
influential contacts in the field before coming to Japan. I suspect
she's already far too old to start as an animator here (dunno about the
US). With such a specialized background, though, she might find work as
a rewriter, salvaging English translations done by native speakers of
Japanese or, if very lucky, actively helping authors write in English
for the overseas market.
In which case, I suggest she finds some way of getting a visa that's
independent of yours, because there are restrictions imposed by a
Dependent visa (although I'm told it's pretty easy for a US national to
get permission to do part-time work on such a visa). Scroll down here:
<http://globalwarming.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/04.html#a>
> (I know, "decent" is a matter of opinion. Our unreachable dream is
> between her computer animation and my teaching English we might
> maintain a semblance of the very middle-class lifestyle we have.)
You had better make sure that this is something you both want to do,
before you commit yourselves. It can be a marriage-breaker, to have one
partner enjoying hir experience here while the other hates it.
Gotta go--someone has just rung to ask me to go and shit pins....
Ryan Ginstrom
"Bryce" <fuk...@takethisout.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aBBnb.429$Ru1....@news.uswest.net...
> > die at a ripe old age. Or they may get disgusted and leave in six
> > months, taking with them a profound and everlasting hatred of Japan.
> > Or anything in between.
>
> It's bittersweet either way I think.
It could be worse -- unable to handle the real Japan, you could be forced to
flee to a small subtropical island, and while away your time on some beach,
drowning your sorrows in awamori.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Declan Murphy
If you just felt a sharp pain in your nether regions, its because the
voodoo doll some envious bastard up here is carving is gradually gaining
your likeness.
--
A hand on the bush is worth two birds on the arm.
Haluk
yazd?:bnn54f$13ju1r$1...@ID-101276.news.uni-berlin.de...
Or to thirld world country, drowning your sorrows in Jack Daniels...
One sure thing is living in Japan -at least as a spouse to JW, remarkably
and irrevocably changes your life.
I always envied people with simpler lives, such as those who are married to
someone from their culture, or their country. Because in my case anyway,
there was always something missing. Don't get me wrong I loved my wife but
either I wasn't very much happy or she'd be miserable. We even thought
living in a third country such as US or Europe, hoping to find a place where
both of us could be reasonably familiar with the culture.
I remember the "homesick crises" that hit me at intervals. First was like a
month after I arrived Japan and it took me about 2 months to feel better. I
later figured out that it wasn't homesick, it was called culture shock. Than
about 6 months later a real homesick crises came. Another one was like a
year later. Than I felt OK for almost two years. But the last one was pretty
damn severe, it forced me back to Turkey.
Now I get homesick in my home country. Last weekend during one of those
crises, I ordered tendon, ocha and nigiri moriawase and except for saba, I
hate sushi and ocha has never been my favorite. Go figure...
So going back home ain't no solution. In my case at least, I got two homes
and I'm never fully at home.
Things might be better for gaijin-gaijin couples though. Cause I'm pretty
confident that both of them will have homesick about the same time and in
worst case they will catch the next flight home.
Louise Bremner
> Things might be better for gaijin-gaijin couples though. Cause I'm pretty
> confident that both of them will have homesick about the same time ....
Idle curiosity, but what makes you so confident of that?
Rafael Caetano
> Unless your Japanese is near fluent (JLPT level 1 or better),
> getting a job in Japan outside teaching English is the stuff
> that Twilight Zone shows are made of.
I've heard there are many IT jobs which require only basic Japanese.
[]s
Rafael
Haluk
yazdı:1g3ltm6.1ulrltp633el4N%dame_...@yahoo.com...
> Haluk <yokoo...@spam.net> wrote:
>
> > Things might be better for gaijin-gaijin couples though. Cause I'm
pretty
> > confident that both of them will have homesick about the same time ....
>
> Idle curiosity, but what makes you so confident of that?
>
What I understand from your other post, you and your wife are a
gaijin-gaijin couple. So I'm not in position to tell you. But gaijin I have
met in Japan tend to have homesick in same intervals. Such as 6 months, a
year, than either once in every year or it keeps doubling. It's kinda like
spouse visa renewal periods (6 months, 6 months, 1 year, 3 years...).
Considering they'd arrive with the same flight, there is a good chance they
get homesick around the same time. And what makes me so confident about it,
is probably my half ass english skills...
Drew Hamilton
>I've heard there are many IT jobs which require only basic Japanese.
Yeah, you might think that until you saw the reception that I got at the
job fair last weekend.
- awh
Louise Bremner
> " Louise Bremner" <dame_...@yahoo.com>, haber iletisinde şunları
> yazdı:1g3ltm6.1ulrltp633el4N%dame_...@yahoo.com...
> > Haluk <yokoo...@spam.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Things might be better for gaijin-gaijin couples though. Cause I'm
> pretty
> > > confident that both of them will have homesick about the same time ....
> >
> > Idle curiosity, but what makes you so confident of that?
> >
>
> What I understand from your other post, you and your wife are a
> gaijin-gaijin couple. So I'm not in position to tell you. But gaijin I have
> met in Japan tend to have homesick in same intervals. Such as 6 months, a
> year, than either once in every year or it keeps doubling. It's kinda like
> spouse visa renewal periods (6 months, 6 months, 1 year, 3 years...).
Ah well, I never was regular in my cycles.
> Considering they'd arrive with the same flight, there is a good chance they
> get homesick around the same time. And what makes me so confident about it,
> is probably my half ass english skills...
That could explain a lot, of course.
Dave Fossett
> What I understand from your other post, you and your wife are a
> gaijin-gaijin couple. So I'm not in position to tell you. But gaijin I
have
> met in Japan tend to have homesick in same intervals. Such as 6 months, a
> year, than either once in every year or it keeps doubling. It's kinda like
> spouse visa renewal periods (6 months, 6 months, 1 year, 3 years...).
Psst... Louise is usually a female name.
--
Dave Fossett
Saitama, Japan
Haluk
yazd?:XZPnb.1663$l63...@news1.dion.ne.jp...
Damn french names :)
Louise Bremner
> > Psst... Louise is usually a female name.
>
> Damn french names :)
Every one a winner!
Michael Cash
Bremner) belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>Haluk <yokoo...@spam.net> wrote:
>
>> " Louise Bremner" <dame_...@yahoo.com>, haber iletisinde şunları
>> yazdı:1g3ltm6.1ulrltp633el4N%dame_...@yahoo.com...
>> > Haluk <yokoo...@spam.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Things might be better for gaijin-gaijin couples though. Cause I'm
>> pretty
>> > > confident that both of them will have homesick about the same time ....
>> >
>> > Idle curiosity, but what makes you so confident of that?
>> >
>>
>> What I understand from your other post, you and your wife are a
>> gaijin-gaijin couple. So I'm not in position to tell you. But gaijin I have
>> met in Japan tend to have homesick in same intervals. Such as 6 months, a
>> year, than either once in every year or it keeps doubling. It's kinda like
>> spouse visa renewal periods (6 months, 6 months, 1 year, 3 years...).
>
>Ah well, I never was regular in my cycles.
How about your wife?
Michael Cash
Bremner) belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>Michael Cash <mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote:
>
>> I was just wondering how many gaigin-gaigin couples actually end up living
>> and working here on a long-term basis. There must be some....somewhere.
>
>Hi there!
Just goes to show how very little folks on the group pry into one
another's business. I had always assumed your husband to be Japanese.
My spousal unit sometimes asks me why a particular person participates
on this group, or in the case of slj why a particular person is
studying Japanese. I always have to tell her that not only do I not
know, I don't even care.
Michael Cash
belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>Rafael Caetano <rcae...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Looked at you like something they scraped off the bottom of their
shoe, did they?
Michael Cash
belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>LRW hu kiteb:
>
>> OK, I found a couple of threads here that answered most of my
>> questions (for now) regarding a Westerner teaching English in Japan.
>>
>> But how about this: My wife is getting her degree in computer
>> animation.
>> (The idea of living in Japan right now is just a distant dream--when
>> it becomes a closer goal, we'll of course be doing more industry
>> focused searching, but until then, I'd like to hear your opinions.)
>>
>> What are the chances that this 32 year old (will likely be a few years
>> older by then) redhaired and freckled American woman (I can see that
>> as being either a big plus or a very big minus) with only little skill
>> at spoken Japanese of getting a decent job in Japan? (Tokyo or
>> otherwise?)
>
>Unless your Japanese is near fluent (JLPT level 1 or better), getting a
>job in Japan outside teaching English is the stuff that Twilight Zone
>shows are made of.
Wow. I knew I was a freak, but I never knew I was Twilight Zone
material.
Bryce
"Haluk" <yokoo...@spam.net> wrote in message
news:bnnpqt$13cc2q$1...@ID-201738.news.uni-berlin.de...
Key point there. At either home, you never feel "fully" at home. It's
strange.
Fabian
>> Unless your Japanese is near fluent (JLPT level 1 or better),
>> getting a job in Japan outside teaching English is the stuff that
>> Twilight Zone shows are made of.
>
> Wow. I knew I was a freak, but I never knew I was Twilight Zone
> material.
'Fraid so Mike. If you drive long and hard enough, sooner or later
you'll take a left turn... into the Twilight Zone.
Louise Bremner
> >> I was just wondering how many gaigin-gaigin couples actually end up living
> >> and working here on a long-term basis. There must be some....somewhere.
> >
> >Hi there!
>
> Just goes to show how very little folks on the group pry into one
> another's business. I had always assumed your husband to be Japanese.
Oh. I'd sort-of assumed the topic had come up here a couplathree times,
but maybe not.
Louise Bremner
> >> What I understand from your other post, you and your wife are a
> >> gaijin-gaijin couple. So I'm not in position to tell you. But gaijin I have
> >> met in Japan tend to have homesick in same intervals. Such as 6 months, a
> >> year, than either once in every year or it keeps doubling. It's kinda like
> >> spouse visa renewal periods (6 months, 6 months, 1 year, 3 years...).
> >
> >Ah well, I never was regular in my cycles.
>
> How about your wife?
You leave my wife out of this....
Inskidentally, has anyone else found that homesickness kicks in at
specific times? I'd always assumed from observation of myself and others
that it attacks at random, with apparently random triggers.
Brett Robson
That used to be the case, but the number of very good IT people with good
Japanese skills is so great that it puts you down the list and in fact out of
the running unless you have good contacts; also the amount of documentation now
in Japanese makes English less important in many areas.
.
----
"No country hides itself behind the paper screen of cultural elitism like Japan,
which, considering they've bought their entire civilisation from other people's
hand-me-downs, is a bit of a liberty."
Eric Takabayashi
> Inskidentally, has anyone else found that homesickness kicks in at
> specific times?
Yes. Like when there are deaths in the family.
> I'd always assumed from observation of myself and others
> that it attacks at random, with apparently random triggers.
That, too. In late spring, I was determined to settle down back at home, study
nursing, send my children to school back home, have them grow up there, and me
make a living there, while all of us became eligible for American Social Security.
Then I visited home, saw how including airfare, it cost me about 7,000 dollars for
the month WHILE STAYING IN MY MOTHER'S HOME, as well as seeing how homes (new and
used) went for 300,000 to 400,000 dollars and up, and got over the idea of making a
living back home (again) very quickly.
Just the other day I realized (again) how when my children get older in Japan, they
simply will not have the free time to travel or visit family and home like I am,
certainly not multiple times a year.
Then I reflected on the financial situation again, and got over it quickly.
Bryan Parker
>Michael Cash <mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote:
>
>> >> What I understand from your other post, you and your wife are a
>> >> gaijin-gaijin couple. So I'm not in position to tell you. But gaijin I have
>> >> met in Japan tend to have homesick in same intervals. Such as 6 months, a
>> >> year, than either once in every year or it keeps doubling. It's kinda like
>> >> spouse visa renewal periods (6 months, 6 months, 1 year, 3 years...).
>> >
>> >Ah well, I never was regular in my cycles.
>>
>> How about your wife?
>
>You leave my wife out of this....
>
>Inskidentally, has anyone else found that homesickness kicks in at
>specific times? I'd always assumed from observation of myself and others
>that it attacks at random, with apparently random triggers.
Are those of us that have never been homesick
allowed to vote?
--
Bryan
the severe subnormal foreigner
http://www.trainerbryan.com/old_fjlij.html
Bryan Parker
Bryan Parker
Bryce
"Bryan Parker" <puntspe...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:r672qvog4nh182tc9...@4ax.com...
You're a pretty swell guy. I wonder how long it took to get that one belted
out?
The 2-Belo
And what is "near fluent"? Either you're fluent or you're not.
Sorry about the segue here in the middle of this fine thread, but why does it
seem that fluency in Japanese, unlike other languages such as French, has a
hillion bazillion levels? When people hear, "Oh, Person X is fluent in Russian",
then they take that to mean that person can speak, read, and write pretty much
everything in Russian. But when people ask me if I'm fluent in Japanese, and I
answer "yes", they continue to hit me with several piles of questions to
pinpoint what I *really* mean when I say "fluent". Knock it off, folks. It's a
simple word with a simple meaning.
--
The 2-Belo
the2belo[AT]msd[DOT]biglobe[DOT]ne[DOT]jp
news:alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk (mhm21x20)
news:alt.fan.karl-malden.nose (Meow.)
http://www.godhatesjanks.org/ (God Hates Janks!)
Processing failed. Hit any user to continue.
Bryan Parker
>You're a pretty swell guy. I wonder how long it took to get that one belted
>out?
Thanks, Beav. I think you're a pretty swell guy
too. I hope Ward doesn't find out we've been up so
late posting to not-quite-usenet.
BTW, I was agreeing with you in my own pathetic
little way. I didn't mean to be a big ol' creep.
Signed,
Wally
Ryan Ginstrom
> Are those of us that have never been homesick
> allowed to vote?
In your case, no. You are only allowed to get points for not being homesick
if you come from someplace that doesn't suck.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Scott Reynolds
> And what is "near fluent"? Either you're fluent or you're not.
>
> Sorry about the segue here in the middle of this fine thread, but why does it
> seem that fluency in Japanese, unlike other languages such as French, has a
> hillion bazillion levels? When people hear, "Oh, Person X is fluent in Russian",
> then they take that to mean that person can speak, read, and write pretty much
> everything in Russian. But when people ask me if I'm fluent in Japanese, and I
> answer "yes", they continue to hit me with several piles of questions to
> pinpoint what I *really* mean when I say "fluent". Knock it off, folks. It's a
> simple word with a simple meaning.
Right, it means _perapera_.
--
_______________________________________________________________
Scott Reynolds s...@gol.com
Bryan Parker
What if I knew for a fact that less than a dozen
of my Okie ancestors were intermarried?
Michael Cash
Bremner) belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>Michael Cash <mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote:
>
>> >> What I understand from your other post, you and your wife are a
>> >> gaijin-gaijin couple. So I'm not in position to tell you. But gaijin I have
>> >> met in Japan tend to have homesick in same intervals. Such as 6 months, a
>> >> year, than either once in every year or it keeps doubling. It's kinda like
>> >> spouse visa renewal periods (6 months, 6 months, 1 year, 3 years...).
>> >
>> >Ah well, I never was regular in my cycles.
>>
>> How about your wife?
>
>You leave my wife out of this....
>
>Inskidentally, has anyone else found that homesickness kicks in at
>specific times? I'd always assumed from observation of myself and others
>that it attacks at random, with apparently random triggers.
I've never been homesick. I sometimes am overcome with an urge to be
somewhere other than where I am, but not necessarily where I came
from.
I used to get this urge when I would go to the docks and see a ship
going somewhere. I'd want to leave the keys in the ignition (or toss
them in the harbor, either way was fine), hop the ship, and go
wherever they were headed. Now that I go to the docks six days a week
those urges don't occur so often.
Michael Cash
<puntspe...@yahoo.com> belched the alphabet and kept on going
with:
>"Ryan Ginstrom" <gins...@hotmail.com> said:
>
>>
>>"Bryan Parker" <puntspe...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:kp62qv4081ph0ouig...@4ax.com...
>>> Are those of us that have never been homesick
>>> allowed to vote?
>>
>>In your case, no. You are only allowed to get points for not being homesick
>>if you come from someplace that doesn't suck.
>
>What if I knew for a fact that less than a dozen
>of my Okie ancestors were intermarried?
Nice try. But since there hasn't been any certainty as to who your
*male* ancestors were for at least 4 generations now, we ain't buying
into it.
Michael Cash
>"Bryce" <fuk...@takethisout.hotmail.com> said:
>
>>
>>"Bryan Parker" <puntspe...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:r672qvog4nh182tc9...@4ax.com...
>>> "Bryce" <fuk...@takethisout.hotmail.com> said:
>
>>> >Key point there. At either home, you never feel "fully" at home. It's
>>> >strange.
>>>
>>> No "it" isn't. You are.
>>>
>>You're a pretty swell guy. I wonder how long it took to get that one belted
>>out?
>
>Thanks, Beav. I think you're a pretty swell guy
>too. I hope Ward doesn't find out we've been up so
>late posting to not-quite-usenet.
>
>BTW, I was agreeing with you in my own pathetic
>little way. I didn't mean to be a big ol' creep.
>
>Signed,
>
>Wally
Actually, Wally, I was saving this one to reply to later.
I feel quite "fully" at home here. That being fully at home here
involves daily being reminded that I am not *from* here doesn't
interfere with it.
Eddie Haskell
Michael Cash
<puntspe...@yahoo.com> belched the alphabet and kept on going
with:
>Michael Cash <mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> said:
>
>>On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:59:44 +0900, "Fabian" <laj...@hotmail.com>
>>belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>>
>>>LRW hu kiteb:
>>>
>>>> OK, I found a couple of threads here that answered most of my
>>>> questions (for now) regarding a Westerner teaching English in Japan.
>>>>
>>>> But how about this: My wife is getting her degree in computer
>>>> animation.
>>>> (The idea of living in Japan right now is just a distant dream--when
>>>> it becomes a closer goal, we'll of course be doing more industry
>>>> focused searching, but until then, I'd like to hear your opinions.)
>>>>
>>>> What are the chances that this 32 year old (will likely be a few years
>>>> older by then) redhaired and freckled American woman (I can see that
>>>> as being either a big plus or a very big minus) with only little skill
>>>> at spoken Japanese of getting a decent job in Japan? (Tokyo or
>>>> otherwise?)
>>>
>>>Unless your Japanese is near fluent (JLPT level 1 or better), getting a
>>>job in Japan outside teaching English is the stuff that Twilight Zone
>>>shows are made of.
>>
>>Wow. I knew I was a freak, but I never knew I was Twilight Zone
>>material.
>
>I did.
That's because you have access to large portions of my hard drive(s).
Michael Cash
belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>On 10/31/2003 10:30 AM, The 2-Belo wrote:
>
>> And what is "near fluent"? Either you're fluent or you're not.
>>
>> Sorry about the segue here in the middle of this fine thread, but why does it
>> seem that fluency in Japanese, unlike other languages such as French, has a
>> hillion bazillion levels? When people hear, "Oh, Person X is fluent in Russian",
>> then they take that to mean that person can speak, read, and write pretty much
>> everything in Russian. But when people ask me if I'm fluent in Japanese, and I
>> answer "yes", they continue to hit me with several piles of questions to
>> pinpoint what I *really* mean when I say "fluent". Knock it off, folks. It's a
>> simple word with a simple meaning.
>
>Right, it means _perapera_.
That's a DANCE, you fucktard. Quit hanging around with Bryan so much.
The 2-Belo
>On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:02:07 +0900, dame_...@yahoo.com ( Louise
>Bremner) belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>
>>Michael Cash <mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote:
>>
>>> >> What I understand from your other post, you and your wife are a
>>> >> gaijin-gaijin couple. So I'm not in position to tell you. But gaijin I have
>>> >> met in Japan tend to have homesick in same intervals. Such as 6 months, a
>>> >> year, than either once in every year or it keeps doubling. It's kinda like
>>> >> spouse visa renewal periods (6 months, 6 months, 1 year, 3 years...).
>>> >
>>> >Ah well, I never was regular in my cycles.
>>>
>>> How about your wife?
>>
>>You leave my wife out of this....
>>
>>Inskidentally, has anyone else found that homesickness kicks in at
>>specific times? I'd always assumed from observation of myself and others
>>that it attacks at random, with apparently random triggers.
>
>
>I've never been homesick. I sometimes am overcome with an urge to be
>somewhere other than where I am, but not necessarily where I came
>from.
Actually, I've been homesick before: when I was in the Philippines for months on
end knee-deep in caustic sludge, I was consumed with a fiery passion to get the
living fuck out of there and get the hell BACK TO GIFU*.
* My home.
The 2-Belo
>On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:26:52 +0900, Bryan Parker
*envy*
Michael Cash
<the2...@msd.biPOKPOKglobe.ne.jp> belched the alphabet and kept on
going with:
>Actually, I've been homesick before: when I was in the Philippines for months on
>end knee-deep in caustic sludge, I was consumed with a fiery passion to get the
>living fuck out of there and get the hell BACK TO GIFU*.
Why were you wading? They had a bridge across that river back when me
and Bryan were having our morals eroded there. God bless Ferdinand
Marcos, may he rest in peace.
Ryan Ginstrom
> "Ryan Ginstrom" <gins...@hotmail.com> said:
>
> >
> >"Bryan Parker" <puntspe...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:kp62qv4081ph0ouig...@4ax.com...
> >> Are those of us that have never been homesick
> >> allowed to vote?
> >
> >In your case, no. You are only allowed to get points for not being
homesick
> >if you come from someplace that doesn't suck.
>
> What if I knew for a fact that less than a dozen
> of my Okie ancestors were intermarried?
Oh, so you guys are recent immigrants to the state?
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Bryce
I have no way to respond. It's just too silly!
Bryce
"The 2-Belo" <the2...@msd.biPOKPOKglobe.ne.jp> wrote in message
news:3fa1bb42$0$2950$df06...@news.sexzilla.net...
No, I disagree. Fluency in the language and culture.. which you need 100% of
the latter to fully understand the first,... it's rare. I've heard that
there are less than 20 foreigners that are truly fluent in Japanese. I never
tell anyone that I'm fluent in Japanese. I'd be telling a lie.
Eric Takabayashi
> No, I disagree. Fluency in the language and culture.. which you need 100% of
> the latter to fully understand the first,... it's rare. I've heard that
> there are less than 20 foreigners that are truly fluent in Japanese.
You mean, that weren't born or raised in the country? And what of Japanese,
particularly the young ones, who don't understand their own culture or proper
use of their own language?
> I never tell anyone that I'm fluent in Japanese.
Me neither. I simply see how long it takes Japanese to find out I am not one of
them without being told, or shown my ID. The last time I was asked whether I
was foreign, was in early July, by the assistant in the barber shop I have been
to exclusively, for years. There was also the person at airport Immigration who
wanted to know if I was in the correct line, but that doesn't count.
cc
"Bryce" <fuk...@takethisout.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> No, I disagree. Fluency in the language and culture.. which you need 100%
of
> the latter to fully understand the first,... it's rare.
You've heard about Pic de la Mirandole ?
>I've heard that
> there are less than 20 foreigners that are truly fluent in Japanese.
Who are they ?
>I never
> tell anyone that I'm fluent in Japanese. I'd be telling a lie.
No, no, no, you are fluent !
In Japan, everybody is fluent. I was paid to make fluency tests on people
that had not started to learn the language ! So they all have a fluency,
that's compulsory.
CC
Eric Takabayashi
> >I've heard that there are less than 20 foreigners that are truly fluent in
> Japanese.
>
> Who are they ?
My first guess would be a few hundred thousand resident alien Asians, likely
born and raised here, visibly and linguistically indistinguishable from native
born Japanese, even by the Japanese themselves. I have seen even Korean and
Chinese teens and college students who came to the country just a few years
earlier mistaken for Japanese (even after speaking Japanese), and seen the
Japanese around them react in surprise and sometimes unpleasantly (as in
shrinking back) when they reveal they are foreign. Even I who am not fluent
get this treatment. I deliberately use my alien registration or home driver's
license for my ID (or "proof"), just to see people react.
And a handful of years back, there was Miss Tokyo University, a Chinese woman
who seemed Japanese in every visible way including language, as well as
entering Tokyo University, despite having come to Japan just *one and a half*
years earlier to study the language. She used to make the rounds of TV shows
and magazine shoots as part of the group of exclusive university beauty
contest winners.
I love it when Japanese people talk about "looking" Japanese or foreign,
particularly when talking about "Chinese" "Southeast Asian" or "foreign
(looking)" criminals; how hard it is to learn language, particularly Japanese;
or how hard it is to understand Japan or Japanese culture, when it is so
simple to disprove.
cc
"Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
> cc wrote:
>
> > >I've heard that there are less than 20 foreigners that are truly fluent
in
> > Japanese.
> >
> > Who are they ?
>
> My first guess would be a few hundred thousand
Hey, he said less than "20".
>resident alien Asians, likely
> born and raised here, visibly and linguistically indistinguishable from
native
> born Japanese,
So, you need not only the language and culture but also the genes ?
That's like to cook Chinese food. Any Asian looking, that can't even boil an
egg, can open a restaurant, he'll get the reputation of authentic Chinese
chef, automatically...But even if a red-haired professional cook was raised
born and raised in China, spent years learning in the most famous
restaurants in Hong-Kong, Pekin, etc, his dishes will never be considered as
good or authentic as the other cup noodle artist's.
CC
Eric Takabayashi
> So, you need not only the language and culture but also the genes ?
No, as when I pointed out young Japanese lack knowledge of their own language
or culture. There are even westerners who deserve to be called more Japanese
than Japanese themselves.
Debito is Japanese, but people can readily tell he wasn't born that way, no
matter how good he claims he sounds on the phone.
On the other hand, there are probably hundreds of thousands of people who are
native Japanese if not for their lack of citizenship. And if Japan were not
such an exclusive country, they would be Japanese already.
cc
"Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
> cc wrote:
>
> > So, you need not only the language and culture but also the genes ?
>
> No, as when I pointed out young Japanese lack knowledge of their own
language
> or culture. There are even westerners who deserve to be called more
Japanese
> than Japanese themselves.
Why does "fluency" and knowledge of Japanese culture has to equate "being
Japanese" ?
> Debito is Japanese, but people can readily tell he wasn't born that way,
no
> matter how good he claims he sounds on the phone.
Idem for Arnold Scharzenegger in California. And ?
> On the other hand, there are probably hundreds of thousands of people who
are
> native Japanese if not for their lack of citizenship.
They are native Japanese speakers. Nationality is irrelevant.
>And if Japan were not
> such an exclusive country, they would be Japanese already.
Possible. Also possible that if Japan had been more opened, they'd be
millions of foreign residents, like in many other countries.
CC
Eric Takabayashi
> Why does "fluency"
Not "fluency," knowledge of their own language.
> and knowledge of Japanese culture has to equate "being
> Japanese" ?
Because such knowledge is more important than a simple piece of paper or where
one happened to be born. It seems former Foreign Minister Tanaka has caused a
stir by her claims that the children of the abducted Japanese remaining in
North Korea, are North Korean, making their "return" to Japan difficult.
Unless the abductees have registered the births of their children the way they
registered their marriages, she is correct, and not just from a legal
standpoint. By the families' own admission, those children have not known
themselves or their parents to be anything but North Korean; and quite
frankly, face a better life continuing to grow up as educated North Korean
elites, than as virtual aliens in Japan.
Perhaps you wouldn't mind young French people to be as ignorant as young
Japanese, or to feel as alienated as recently repatriated Japanese born and
raised abroad since WWII. Others would consider that a sad if not scandalous
thing.
> > Debito is Japanese, but people can readily tell he wasn't born that way,
> no matter how good he claims he sounds on the phone.
>
> Idem for Arnold Scharzenegger in California. And ?
No, in the US, it is much harder to determine such a thing, because even his
accent need not be a giveaway. But an American born caucasian Debito with a
distinct accent, is more Japanese, than many native born Japanese who would
discriminate against him, who do not need to live with discrimination
themselves.
> > On the other hand, there are probably hundreds of thousands of people who
> are
> > native Japanese if not for their lack of citizenship.
>
> They are native Japanese speakers. Nationality is irrelevant.
Precisely why Japanese should not make such a fuss about the origins of such
people. Now try to convince them of it. The only reason I make such
comparisons, is because they need to have it pointed out.
Just today, I signed up at a new video rental two blocks up the street
offering video and music rentals for TEN yen each. When the man asked me for
ID, I handed him my alien registration, as I usually do, just to see what he
would do. And he reacted just as people, including people who know I am
foreign, always have: he had to look it over for a while to figure it out, and
there was an immediate and visible change in his demeanor, as when for
example, he asked me if I wanted my alien card back to copy down my personal
information, as if I didn't know my own address or how to write it after seven
years. How stupid does he think foreigners are?
As a matter of fact, his reaction was more mild than most, and he was not
overtly curt or rude, nor did he act like a racist, as when real estate agents
hung up on my wife when she revealed over the phone during conversation that
she was married to a gaikokujin. He was probably simply ignorant.
And I registered my name there in my Japanese kanji, if anyone cares. I didn't
feel the need to have a katakana or romaji membership card to make people
notice me unnecessarily.
> >And if Japan were not such an exclusive country, they would be Japanese
> already.
>
> Possible.
No, fact. If Japan were one of those countries which allowed people to be
citizens by birth, such people would be Japanese already.
> Also possible that if Japan had been more opened, they'd be
> millions of foreign residents, like in many other countries.
And what would be wrong with that? Over 300,000 immigrant laborers per year
for the next 50 years, is precisely what the UN recommends to maintain the
Japanese economy and population.
cc
"Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
> cc wrote:
>
> > Why does "fluency"
>
> Not "fluency," knowledge of their own language.
Yes, fluency. Knowledge of a language. A second one. That was what we were
talking about.
> > and knowledge of Japanese culture has to equate "being
> > Japanese" ?
>
> Because such knowledge is more important than a simple piece of paper or
where
> one happened to be born.
Except a few historical exceptions, what language you speak is unrelated
with the obtention of a nationality.
> By the families' own admission, those children have not known
> themselves or their parents to be anything but North Korean; and quite
> frankly, face a better life continuing to grow up as educated North Korean
> elites, than as virtual aliens in Japan.
If North Korean administration decides they are no longer North Korean,
they'll have to go to Japan. What they speak is not taken into account.
> Perhaps you wouldn't mind young French people to be as ignorant as young
> Japanese, or to feel as alienated as recently repatriated Japanese born
and
> raised abroad since WWII. Others would consider that a sad if not
scandalous
> thing.
What message are you answering to ?
> > > Debito is Japanese, but people can readily tell he wasn't born that
way,
> > no matter how good he claims he sounds on the phone.
> >
> > Idem for Arnold Scharzenegger in California. And ?
>
> No, in the US, it is much harder to determine such a thing,
It's hard to determine Swarzenegger's origine ? Certainly not. First, he
didn't become American overnight, during many years, his social security
number and green card number indicated he was a foreigner. Second, because
Americans ask you all the time from where you come, where you lived, so
unless you invent you a fictive life, and pretend you are American... Why ?
Why pretending ?
>because even his
> accent need not be a giveaway.
Ah no ? You think it's not enough to have an accent -not even foreign- to be
discriminated ? (I've never hidden my accent in the US, certain persons
avoided me, and that's great, because they were exactly the ones I didn't
want to talk to)
Anyway, what I meant is Arnold decided he couldn't care less what people
thought about him, and he assumed his origines. Even took advantage of them.
I don't like the guy, but he had the guts to assume what he is.
> Just today, I signed up at a new video rental two blocks up the street
> offering video and music rentals for TEN yen each. When the man asked me
for
> ID, I handed him my alien registration, as I usually do, just to see what
he
> would do.
Why do you care ?
> there was an immediate and visible change in his demeanor,
Ah yeah ? They see imediatly I'm a foreigner everywhere. At the best 1% of
the people are hima enough to notice me and stare 2 seconds before deciding
I'm not dangerous or whatever. The people with 'strange reactions' are not
so numerous.
> for
> example, he asked me if I wanted my alien card back to copy down my
personal
> information, as if I didn't know my own address or how to write it after
seven
> years. How stupid does he think foreigners are?
I'm a stupid foreigner. I don't know my gaigin number by heart. I need to
copy it.
> real estate agents
The sort of people you meet once in a blue moon...
> And I registered my name there in my Japanese kanji, if anyone cares.
IMHO, they couldn't care less.
> didn't
> feel the need to have a katakana or romaji membership card to make people
> notice me unnecessarily.
I've noticed that in Osaka, many nihonjins write their name in kana or
romaji on such cards. At the sports club, we write the time and name when we
check in, most names are in kana (2/3 katakana, 1/3 hiragana) or romaji,
only a few in kanji.
Anyway what that makes people notice you ? You're ashamed of being a
foreigner or what ?
> No, fact. If Japan were one of those countries which allowed people to be
> citizens by birth, such people would be Japanese already.
If they had accepted.
> > Also possible that if Japan had been more opened, they'd be
> > millions of foreign residents, like in many other countries.
>
> And what would be wrong with that?
Nothing. And those people could be native speakers of Japanese, and they
could be it
without being/feeling/wanting to be Japanese.
CC
Eric Takabayashi
> "Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
>
> > cc wrote:
> >
> > > Why does "fluency"
> >
> > Not "fluency," knowledge of their own language.
>
> Yes, fluency. Knowledge of a language. A second one. That was what we were
> talking about.
No, the lack of knowledge of young Japanese of their own language and culture,
which is a sad, sometimes scandalous thing.
And as for foreigners, knowledge of the local language would be really nice in
helping assimilate themselves to becoming citizens, as can be seen in the
naturalization requirements of Japan or the US.
> > > and knowledge of Japanese culture has to equate "being
> > > Japanese" ?
> >
> > Because such knowledge is more important than a simple piece of paper or
> where
> > one happened to be born.
>
> Except a few historical exceptions, what language you speak is unrelated
> with the obtention of a nationality.
We are not talking about simple nationality, a simple piece of paper or where
one happens to be born, we are talking about culture. Language is culture.
Japanese understood this when they forced Japanese language upon the Koreans,
and they understood this when denying "foreign" schools and their students,
equal status under the law.
And perhaps you have not heard of the local naturalization requirements. Try
becoming a Japanese citizen while speaking and reading only French or English.
> > By the families' own admission, those children have not known
> > themselves or their parents to be anything but North Korean; and quite
> > frankly, face a better life continuing to grow up as educated North Korean
> > elites, than as virtual aliens in Japan.
>
> If North Korean administration decides they are no longer North Korean,
> they'll have to go to Japan.
Yeah, "if".
Why "have to"? There are approximately 1,800 Japanese wives who accompanied
their Korean husbands to North Korea, yet they and their untold number of
children, are not entitled to leave the country and come to Japan, even after
near 50 years of hardship or wanting to leave.
> What they speak is not taken into account.
And in their minds, they will still be North Korean, because they've never
known anything else, and be in a very bad way if they come to Japan, as sorry
as many war orphans and their relatives brought over from China, as sorry as
many families of Japanese who've escaped North Korea so far, with language and
financial difficulties.
> > Perhaps you wouldn't mind young French people to be as ignorant as young
> > Japanese, or to feel as alienated as recently repatriated Japanese born
> and
> > raised abroad since WWII. Others would consider that a sad if not
> scandalous
> > thing.
>
> What message are you answering to ?
Yours. You are unwilling to recognize the link between language and culture, or
language and culture to identity and nationality.
> > > > Debito is Japanese, but people can readily tell he wasn't born that
> way,
> > > no matter how good he claims he sounds on the phone.
> > >
> > > Idem for Arnold Scharzenegger in California. And ?
> >
> > No, in the US, it is much harder to determine such a thing,
>
> It's hard to determine Swarzenegger's origine ?
Yes. He looks like a white man born in America.
> Certainly not. First, he
> didn't become American overnight, during many years, his social security
> number and green card number indicated he was a foreigner.
We don't see those. We see a white man with a minor accent. But many Americans
have much stronger, regional accents.
> Second, because
> Americans ask you all the time from where you come, where you lived, so
> unless you invent you a fictive life, and pretend you are American... Why ?
> Why pretending ?
Schwarzenegger doesn't have to pretend. He is American, and he looks it.
As for my ancestors and other ethnic Japanese people during and after WWII,
they had to prove their American-ness very quickly, because to do otherwise had
often unpleasant consequences. Looking too conspicuously Japanese abroad can
result in various unpleasantness even today.
> >because even his accent need not be a giveaway.
>
> Ah no ? You think it's not enough to have an accent -not even foreign- to be
> discriminated ?
No, and I don't know why you are becoming so defensive about race, language or
national origin. I am merely pointing out who in Japan is most likely to pass
for what Japanese would accept as Japanese looking - an Asian, not a caucasian,
and how Japanese concepts of their own uniqueness causes interesting and
sometimes unpleasant reactions, when they realize that the *perfectly* Japanese
sounding, acting and looking person in their midst is revealed to be not
Japanese like them due to the simple circumstances of their birth. Debito has a
hard time convincing strangers (and even people who do know him) he is
Japanese, because he looks the way he does. That is unfortunate, as when he is
discriminated against, but it is a simple fact.
> (I've never hidden my accent in the US, certain persons
> avoided me, and that's great, because they were exactly the ones I didn't
> want to talk to)
I don't say you have to. I'm just pointing out that Schwarzenneger is sounding
more like native born Americans with their various accents all the time, not
like he did 20 years ago when people openly lambasted his language skills in
the movies or even had his voice dubbed over; and that Japan born foreigners of
any ethnicity can sound just like native born Japanese speakers.
> Anyway, what I meant is Arnold decided he couldn't care less what people
> thought about him, and he assumed his origines. Even took advantage of them.
> I don't like the guy, but he had the guts to assume what he is.
In Japan, people who are not Japanese, or not Japanese sounding or looking are
still subject to unpleasantness. Resident Koreans may have learned the hard way
over their lifetimes, to pass themselves as Japanese, going so far as to take
on Japanese names, even if they are not willing to naturalize. I have known
some Koreans who are fiercely proud of their identities, who declare themselves
to be Korean or NOT Japanese, as soon as I've met them. But I have also known
Koreans who revealed their nationality to me only months and years later, who
want to keep such things private.
You're proud of who you are? You're free to reveal it and don't care what
others think?
That's nice. Real nice. Because unless you'd like to educate me otherwise,
French aren't generally known in Japan to be abused as badly as Asian looking
people, nor do French have bad reputations among Japanese. They aren't
denounced as criminals and potential criminals as Chinese are, nor cursed or
assaulted for being Korean. There aren't organized campaigns and media warnings
to look out for French and French looking or speaking people, as there are with
Chinese; and we don't see daily news stories and television shows to tell us
how bad the French government is, to cause French in Japan to be viewed with
suspicion or even threatened with death or assaulted, as happens with known
Koreans.
> > Just today, I signed up at a new video rental two blocks up the street
> > offering video and music rentals for TEN yen each. When the man asked me
> for
> > ID, I handed him my alien registration, as I usually do, just to see what
> he
> > would do.
>
> Why do you care ?
Because Japanese care, and even I have been discriminated against simply for
being a foreigner. Showing people my alien card up front, or hiding my identity
until it is later revealed, allows me to test people.
> > there was an immediate and visible change in his demeanor,
>
> Ah yeah ? They see imediatly I'm a foreigner everywhere. At the best 1% of
> the people are hima enough to notice me and stare 2 seconds before deciding
> I'm not dangerous or whatever. The people with 'strange reactions' are not
> so numerous.
That is because where you are, people are more enlightened about foreigners. Or
perhaps they are simply too busy.
I have personally witnessed people shrink back, and actually run screaming from
various foreigners. And when it occurs to a Korean, a Chinese, a Brazilian, or
a Japanese-American, with the ability to pass for a Japanese, I know it's not
because we are so big or loud or scary looking. It is purely because of what is
in their minds about foreigners. I know Japanese who explicitly express their
racist views concerning Chinese, Koreans, and other foreigners, which they may
not do if they knew foreigners were around. I also see how people may suddenly
react *positively* to me, simply because they find out I am American, when they
did not care less that I looked and acted like another Japanese.
> > for
> > example, he asked me if I wanted my alien card back to copy down my
> personal
> > information, as if I didn't know my own address or how to write it after
> seven
> > years. How stupid does he think foreigners are?
>
> I'm a stupid foreigner. I don't know my gaigin number by heart. I need to
> copy it.
I don't know my gaijin number. But it is unnecessary for my video membership.
We are talking about my ADDRESS. The man asked me if I wanted my card back to
copy my ADDRESS, after he suddenly realized I was a foreigner.
> > real estate agents
>
> The sort of people you meet once in a blue moon...
And very important, unless you'd like to risk homelessness.
How many times does one have to face discrimination or racism, before it
matters to you? It took me months to find this place, with people refusing or
hanging up the telephone on my wife (I deliberately had her make the inquiries)
nearly as quickly as they were informed I was a foreigner, with even the
landlord who accepted me giving me a long lecture upon first meeting me; and
I'd prefer not to go through that again, though I must in the near future.
> > And I registered my name there in my Japanese kanji, if anyone cares.
>
> IMHO, they couldn't care less.
Japanese do. Try registering your name in kanji at city hall.
> > didn't
> > feel the need to have a katakana or romaji membership card to make people
> > notice me unnecessarily.
>
> I've noticed that in Osaka, many nihonjins write their name in kana or
> romaji on such cards. At the sports club, we write the time and name when we
> check in, most names are in kana (2/3 katakana, 1/3 hiragana) or romaji,
> only a few in kanji.
I am talking about more formal forms of ID, which are harder to alter, simplify
or falsify.
> Anyway what that makes people notice you ? You're ashamed of being a
> foreigner or what ?
No, I'm proud of being a foreigner.
I want to avoid discrimination, particularly now that I am married with
children. I don't need them pointed out as the children of a gaijin, or gaijin
themselves, among racists.
> > No, fact. If Japan were one of those countries which allowed people to be
> > citizens by birth, such people would be Japanese already.
>
> If they had accepted.
And Japan does not, because they are an exclusive country, with birth,
nationality, race and identity issues, which is precisely the point.
> > > Also possible that if Japan had been more opened, they'd be
> > > millions of foreign residents, like in many other countries.
> >
> > And what would be wrong with that?
>
> Nothing.
Precisely, though I do hope they assimilate to some extent, by for example,
learning the language and other things to allow Japanese to feel more
comfortable.
Now convince Japanese there would be nothing wrong with 30 million foreign
laborers plus their families, in Japan for the sake of their economy, national
pension, and taxes, as the UN recommends.
I try. And I have found zero supporters, even among those resident alien
Koreans and Chinese, and people who whine about the economy, national pension
and taxes.
> And those people could be native speakers of Japanese, and they
> could be it
> without being/feeling/wanting to be Japanese.
I don't want to be Japanese. I just want to be left alone by such as English
beggars, groupies and racists.
Ryan Ginstrom
> You're proud of who you are? You're free to reveal it and don't care what
> others think?
>
> That's nice. Real nice. Because unless you'd like to educate me otherwise,
> French aren't generally known in Japan to be abused as badly as Asian
looking
> people, nor do French have bad reputations among Japanese.
Eric, have you been in Japan too long? Why can't a French person be Asian
looking?
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Michael Cash
<gins...@hotmail.com> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
Europeans are white. Everybody knows that.
Eric Takabayashi
Because most aren't.
Eric Takabayashi
The vast majority are. After all the talk about how internationalized the UK is,
or how London was called the most internationalized city in the world based on
the fact that more than 300 languages are spoken there, I was surprised to see
one source saying that England was 93% caucasian.
> Everybody knows that.
They know most Europeans are white. And that in Japan, Europeans are not the
ones called criminals and potential criminals as Chinese are, or as brainwashed
supporters of a terrorist regime as North Koreans are. Just a few minutes ago,
there was some special on TV about Chinese criminal gang activities again. There
was a studio with a small crowd of victims of bank book fraud, and for some
reason, they knew Chinese gangs were responsible. Meanwhile, Tokyo Gov. Ishihara
appeared on a giant screen TV in the background looking somber and shaking his
head.
Viktoro 9
"Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote
>
> Now convince Japanese there would be nothing wrong with 30 million foreign
> laborers plus their families, in Japan for the sake of their economy, national
> pension, and taxes, as the UN recommends.
>
That would be interesting... Black kabuki actors, Swedish sumo wrestlers,
Iranian geisha,...
I can almost see it.
--Viktoro
The 2-Belo
>On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:22:35 +0900, The 2-Belo
><the2...@msd.biPOKPOKglobe.ne.jp> belched the alphabet and kept on
>going with:
>
>
>>Actually, I've been homesick before: when I was in the Philippines for months on
>>end knee-deep in caustic sludge, I was consumed with a fiery passion to get the
>>living fuck out of there and get the hell BACK TO GIFU*.
>
>Why were you wading? They had a bridge across that river back when me
>and Bryan were having our morals eroded there.
Heh. If you'd seen what I saw put into industrial water that was treated and
released into the common sewer system, you'd never take a shower again.
>God bless Ferdinand Marcos, may he rest in peace.
I hear Imelda the Shoe Beast still frequents several Japaneseish restaurants in
Makati City.
Eric Takabayashi
> "Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote
> >
> > Now convince Japanese there would be nothing wrong with 30 million foreign
> > laborers plus their families, in Japan for the sake of their economy, national
> > pension, and taxes, as the UN recommends.
>
> That would be interesting... Black kabuki actors,
There is a caucasian kabuki stage drummer. At the time he was the only one. I
believe it took him 18 years to attain that rank. I've also seen a caucasian man on
TV who is the head of a shamisen style. He's been at it for about 30 years. There
was also a caucasian man in his 80's, who was claimed to be the last master of
inkblock printing to do all his own work at every step of production, from carving
to coloration.
> Swedish sumo wrestlers,
I've seen caucasian sumo wrestlers from the former Soviet bloc on TV. They are
novel. Mongolians and ethnic Samoans from Hawaii no longer are, as they've even
proven they can rise to the top ranks. Too bad Japanese whine now there aren't
"Japanese" yokozuna.
I'd like to see another black sumo wrestler, but one who wasn't mainly fat.
> Iranian geisha,...
We've had at least one white trainee already.
Whatever it takes to keep the numbers up. It could be awkward putting dark skinned
people in whiteface, however.
> I can almost see it.
I would welcome it. Until such became more common, I would even consider it cool,
and use such stories as examples of how Japanese are losing their own traditions -
to foreigners, in some cases. Problem is, it's hard to find Japanese who care.
The 2-Belo
>I would welcome it. Until such became more common, I would even consider it cool,
>and use such stories as examples of how Japanese are losing their own traditions -
>to foreigners, in some cases.
Hmm. Is a Japanese tradition "lost" if it's performed by a non-Japanese? I don't
believe that.
Bryan Parker
said:
>Eric Takabayashi and fj.life.in-japan is a baaaaaaaaaaad combination:
>
>>I would welcome it. Until such became more common, I would even consider it cool,
>>and use such stories as examples of how Japanese are losing their own traditions -
>>to foreigners, in some cases.
>
>Hmm. Is a Japanese tradition "lost" if it's performed by a non-Japanese? I don't
>believe that.
But would you guys eat sushi prepared by a black
sushi chef?
I don't even think Eric was around to chime in on
this fjlij flashback classic thread.
--
Bryan
the severe subnormal foreigner
http://www.trainerbryan.com/old_fjlij.html
Scott Reynolds
> The 2-Belo <the2...@msd.biPOKPOKglobe.ne.jp>
> said:
>
>>Eric Takabayashi and fj.life.in-japan is a baaaaaaaaaaad combination:
>>
>>>I would welcome it. Until such became more common, I would even consider it cool,
>>>and use such stories as examples of how Japanese are losing their own traditions -
>>>to foreigners, in some cases.
>>
>>Hmm. Is a Japanese tradition "lost" if it's performed by a non-Japanese? I don't
>>believe that.
>
> But would you guys eat sushi prepared by a black
> sushi chef?
>
> I don't even think Eric was around to chime in on
> this fjlij flashback classic thread.
Heh! Those were the days!
What ever happened to old Yoshida-san anyway?
--
_______________________________________________________________
Scott Reynolds s...@gol.com
Eric Takabayashi
> Hmm. Is a Japanese tradition "lost" if it's performed
> by a non-Japanese? I don't
> believe that.
It's lost to Japanese, if Japanese stop practicing it,
or foreigners take it elsewhere for other people, not
to mention if they change it along the way.
For example, have you ever heard of this man, claimed
(not by himself) to be the head of the only budo which
exists in its prewar form, precisely because it had by
the time of the Occupation, already left Japan?
http://www.advdojo.org/donangier.html
Here is one example of his story. He does not mention
that he was given the right to do with the art, for
example, even to pass it on or not, what he will.
His art is lost to the Japanese, because they no longer
have it.
Do I care that a foreign born man is teaching a
Japanese art to foreigners, or that he would have
passed the mantle to another American? No, that's cool.
It would also be cool if blacks dominated sumo and
became geisha. I am only disappointed in the sense that
Japanese did not care enough to preserve or maintain
such a tradition themselves.
I am aware that many "Japanese" traditions as basic as
writing kanji and cultivating rice did not originate
with Japanese or in Japan, but they came to be
considered Japanese simply because Japanese practiced
or adapted them over time. How long would it be until
black-dominated sumo or black people wearing kimono and
entertaining guests was no longer considered Japanese?
Eric Takabayashi
> But would you guys eat sushi prepared by a black sushi chef?
If they know how to make it according to health standards, I would eat it no matter who
made it, or if it were done by robot. I even eat things that should probably not be
called sushi according to the traditional menu or traditional chefs.
Some sushi traditions that are welcome to go are high prices, discriminatory pricing or
the chef serving (only) what they feel like serving a particular customer.
> I don't even think Eric was around to chime in on this fjlij flashback classic
> thread.
Was it a couple of years ago, after it was featured on a variety show, or are you
talking about something earlier? In the clip I saw, even the man who looked his sushi
over each time before putting it in his mouth admitted later that it was good. He's
ignorant, not racist.
Declan Murphy
> Bryan Parker wrote:
>
>>But would you guys eat sushi prepared by a black sushi chef?
>
> If they know how to make it according to health standards, I would eat it no matter who
> made it, or if it were done by robot.
Most of us have probably eaten a lot more sushi made by robots than we
realize. The sushi robots being made next door to where I work are one
of that company's faster moving products.
--
"Thank God I'm an atheist" - Luis Bunuel
Michael Cash
<eta...@yahoo.co.jp> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>Bryan Parker wrote:
>
>> I don't even think Eric was around to chime in on this fjlij flashback classic
>> thread.
>
>Was it a couple of years ago, after it was featured on a variety show, or are you
>talking about something earlier? In the clip I saw, even the man who looked his sushi
>over each time before putting it in his mouth admitted later that it was good. He's
>ignorant, not racist.
Enjoy yourself: http://tinyurl.com/tpi4
Eric Takabayashi
I was here. It was only when I had server trouble, switched providers or bought a new
computer that I ceased logging on every single day.
Bryan Parker
1998 or 1999? I don't know anything about the
program that you refer to. I might watch an hour's
worth of TV a month.
Haluk
yazd?:3FA8D286...@hotmail.com...
Can those robots greet "Maido!" ("Irasshai" for Tokyo folks)
The 2-Belo
>The 2-Belo <the2...@msd.biPOKPOKglobe.ne.jp>
>said:
>
>>Eric Takabayashi and fj.life.in-japan is a baaaaaaaaaaad combination:
>>
>>>I would welcome it. Until such became more common, I would even consider it cool,
>>>and use such stories as examples of how Japanese are losing their own traditions -
>>>to foreigners, in some cases.
>>
>>Hmm. Is a Japanese tradition "lost" if it's performed by a non-Japanese? I don't
>>believe that.
>
>But would you guys eat sushi prepared by a black
>sushi chef?
Sure I would. If he knows how to make it, then what's the difference, other than
"atmosphere", which is overrated anyway?
>I don't even think Eric was around to chime in on
>this fjlij flashback classic thread.
heh. I wondered how many times this subject's rolled its odometer.
Declan Murphy
> "Declan Murphy" <declan...@hotmail.com>, haber iletisinde ?unlar?
> yazd?:3FA8D286...@hotmail.com...
>
>>Eric Takabayashi wrote:
<snip>
>>>made it, or if it were done by robot.
>>
>>Most of us have probably eaten a lot more sushi made by robots than we
>>realize. The sushi robots being made next door to where I work are one
>>of that company's faster moving products.
>
> Can those robots greet "Maido!" ("Irasshai" for Tokyo folks)
I'm sure with a little bit of programming they could. The chances of a
customer coming close to one of those mass sushi production lines is
pretty remote though.
Haluk
yazdi:3FA9BB5E...@hotmail.com...
Well I'm capable of consuming tons of saba with Kgs of wasabi...