Japanese Windows Home XP
Marc
"mr.sumo snr." <mr_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c0hq9a$17jnqa$1...@ID-141600.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Marc" <box5...@spamtrap.net> wrote in message
> news:YBYWb.303324$na.456550@attbi_s04...
> > Anyone know what is the street price in Japan? I can purchase here in
the
> US
> > for about $330
> >
>
>
> www.kakaku.com quotes 19500 yen for the full XP Home version (not
upgrade).
>
> If you're desperate for a full Japanese language Windoze OS then why not
> just install the Japanese Multi-User interface (MUI) over a copy of
English
> Windoze. Sure, you're bending a few licensing laws when you do so,
> but...WTF. It's not a product that requires registration - or to be
> precise - it's not a product that comes with a serial number and/or any
> activation requirements.
so what would be the difference between using a Japanese OS and using an
English OS + Japanese MUI?
-Marc
Konrad Den Ende
> English OS + Japanese MUI?
Why not use English OS + Japanese IME?
--
Kindly
Konrad
---------------------------------------------------
May all spammers die an agonizing death; have no burial places;
their souls be chased by demons in Gehenna from one room to
another for all eternity and more.
Sleep - thing used by ineffective people
as a substitute for coffee
Ambition - a poor excuse for not having
enough sense to be lazy
---------------------------------------------------
mr.sumo snr.
Practically nothing except:
A. I assume that you already have a copy of English Windoze XP - so there's
$300 you've just saved or
B. You don't have a copy of English Windoze XP - but one of those can be
picked up for about US$80 at Ebay
C. Using the MUI onto of English WindozeXP would allow you to sort out any
problems in English and then just switch everything back to Japanese with a
simple log off and log on (that's basically the why and how it operates on
my wife's computer).
Let me now ask straight - do you want the MUI?
--
jonathan
--
"Never give a gun to ducks"
mr.sumo snr.
news:c0rf3d$du$1...@news.gu.se...
> > so what would be the difference between using a Japanese OS and using an
> > English OS + Japanese MUI?
>
> Why not use English OS + Japanese IME?
>
The Japanese IME displays no menus in Japanese - save the menus in the
Japanese IME itself (assuming that you switched the 'Display non-Unicode
Programs' to 'Japanese' in the Regional and Language Options part of Control
Panel). The Japanese IME 'merely' allows one to write in Japanese and/or
display Japanese text, homepages etc.
Anyway, the MUI displays everything in Japanese starting from "Yokosou" on
the splash screen right down to the display menus in the Administrative
Tools section - that's why it's about 100 mb in size but and has about 6000
files contained therewithin. Come to think of it I've never tried
installing the MUI on a system WITHOUT the Japanese IME already installed -
I wonder if it installs its own IME or if you still have to add it -
something to try out next time....
--
jonathan
--
"Never give an IME to ducks"
Dale Walker
<chamste...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> so what would be the difference between using a Japanese OS and using an
>> English OS + Japanese MUI?
You should look at
http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/DrIntl/faqs/Muifaq.mspx#MUIques4
It says that Western XP Pro + MUI has 97% of the functionality of the
real thing. With a pure J-OS, all your menu's, help systems, dialog
boxes, etc are all in Japanese. You still cannot mix say Swedish with
Japanese. Never seen a real J-OS in anything other than Japanese mode
but I would suggest if anything, the only other languages you might be
able to use would be US English and maybe Chinese.
The advantage of the MUI over the native Japanese version is that you
can have say Swedish & Japanese on the same system. You may have to
use different logins to get full functionality from both but at least
you get most of the menus, dialog boxes and help in the respective
languages.
>Why not use English OS + Japanese IME?
The MUI is appreciably better than English with the Japanese IME for
those that regularly use two (or more languages) a lot or for those
with say one user who can only use English and another that can only
use Japanese.
For those that just dabble in Japanese, the only real advantage the
J-MUI has is the ability to automatically change system fonts with the
login user. This means that keyboard layouts, etc can be kept separate
(useful for those European/English speaking people with non US
keyboards when they want to be in native mode, or those like me who
hate the Japanese yen sign appearing everywhere there should be a
backslash).
There's also a little utility called applocale
http://ftp.pu.edu.tw/cpatch/msupdate/applocale/apploc.msi
which is a Microsoft utility that allows you to use a different system
font within any current setup meaning you can run Japanese apps, with
Japanese menus, dialog boxes and everything within any other setup.
It's not perfect but for someone like me that only has a couple of
apps that need the full Japanese system font, it allows me to do
everything as the same login user using the western system font (with
lovely backslashes instead of yen signs).
I was hoping I could finally type Japanese directly into Forte Agent
Newsreader but alas, Agent 1.93 is still broken in that respect. I'm
on a 30 day trial of Agent 2.0 at the moment which comes tantalizingly
close but hangs when trying to exit Agent :(
Either Agent 2.0 is at fault or Applocale, I'm not sure. Either way,
until it's fixed, it's still too much effort for me to be bothered to
write anything in Japanese to a Usenet newsgroup. Haven't tried Agent
2.0 with a Japanese system font yet. Will do so, after I've finished
converting my home movies of my recent holiday from avi to mpg so that
I can view it on my DVD player.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Dale Walker London Techno Events Saiko!
da...@sorted.org lon...@sorted.org sa...@sorted.org
London, UK london.sorted.org saiko.sorted.org
Raj Feridun
wrote:
>There's also a little utility called applocale
>http://ftp.pu.edu.tw/cpatch/msupdate/applocale/apploc.msi
>which is a Microsoft utility that allows you to use a different system
>font within any current setup meaning you can run Japanese apps, with
>Japanese menus, dialog boxes and everything within any other setup.
>It's not perfect but for someone like me that only has a couple of
>apps that need the full Japanese system font, it allows me to do
>everything as the same login user using the western system font (with
>lovely backslashes instead of yen signs).
Thank you VERY much for this tip!! I have been SO sick of the
backslash and also the degree symbol for temperature always showing up
as a C or not at all. This is just what the doctor ordered.
>I was hoping I could finally type Japanese directly into Forte Agent
>Newsreader but alas, Agent 1.93 is still broken in that respect. I'm
>on a 30 day trial of Agent 2.0 at the moment which comes tantalizingly
>close but hangs when trying to exit Agent :(
>Either Agent 2.0 is at fault or Applocale, I'm not sure. Either way,
>until it's fixed, it's still too much effort for me to be bothered to
>write anything in Japanese to a Usenet newsgroup. Haven't tried Agent
>2.0 with a Japanese system font yet. Will do so, after I've finished
>converting my home movies of my recent holiday from avi to mpg so that
>I can view it on my DVD player.
日本語入力テスト。I am using Applocale with Agent 2.0. Let's see if it
hangs when I try to exit.
Thanks again!
Raj
Marc
Yes I admit it, I want the MUI, I am besmitten with the thing, the melodic
timbres of these three letter rolling off my tongue is irresistable, I will
sell my children, betray my friends, quit my job, anything.... for an MUI.
From the Microsoft Informaiton site:
"Although many customers deploy localized versions of Windows XP
Professional in a multilingual environment, the localization quality of
Windows XP Multilingual User Interface Pack equals a localized version, plus
it comes with added benefits. For this reason, the Multilingual User
Interface Technology is the default architecture for future localized
versions of Windows"
Raj Feridun
<rfe...@NOSPAMyahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>日本語入力テスト。I am using Applocale with Agent 2.0. Let's see if it
>hangs when I try to exit.
A quick followup: no hang on exit. Everything worked out perfectly.
I have the WinXP MUI here as well but I never really got up the energy
to bother with it. I also only run 2 or 3 Japanese native apps on my
U.S. English XP.
Raj
Don Kirkman
<1ll230h29v7djtijc...@4ax.com>:
Dale, since your recent email I've played around a bit and have been
able to type Japanese into a box above Agent's composition window, but I
haven't found how to transfer it into the message area properly--I end
up with asterisks or questions marks (forgot which). This was without
applocale, and Agent performed normally including exiting. I'll
continue to mess around with. There's gotta be a way.
--
Don
Old age is when you start saying "I wish I knew now what I knew then."
David Chien
> so what would be the difference between using a Japanese OS and using an
> English OS + Japanese MUI?
http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/muizone.mspx
start here and keep reading, faq first.
---
Jpn. OS can't switch to Eng. menus and all.
Eng. OS can with Jpn. MUI installed.
---
almost 100% compatible, but not quite. some things are still different
and won't work quite the same under English OS + MUI.
However, it's pretty good overall, and today, you can safely use Eng. XP
+ Jpn. MUI for just about everything and you may never encounter a problem.
Help and so forth are the common areas where they might not be displayed
in Japanese, but Eng. instead.
---
Eng. OS + Jpn. IME only doesn't display Japanese program windows text
correctly sometimes due to the lack of understanding of the Eng. OS w/o
Jpn. MUI. If you're running Jpn. programs, you really have to have Eng.
OS + Jpn MUI or JPN XP.
---
Eng. OS + Jpn. MUI is a very nice way to go however if you want both
interfaces. Install XP, then MUI, then add two users - English and
Japanese so you can pick one or the other on login. In the Japanese
logiin, make sure the language used, etc. (regional settings) are all
Japanese, and voila! everything should be that convenient - just pick
which language on login, and everything will be that way in use.
The only problem here is what happens when you install Partition Magic,
Antivirus software, etc. - Japanese or English version? And if English
version, will they work on Japanese filenames? (usually they're not
designed for Japanese, and most companies will say you should go
Japanese; most will work okay, but no guarentees....) Better be ready
because you'll have to start reading Japanesee fast once you've got the
Japanese apps installed......
Have to be careful which language you login as before installing
programs as well - some, such as Partition Magic, will autodetect the
language in use, and install that version. Watch out when you try to
run it when logged in as another lang. user!
Habar
>real thing. With a pure J-OS, all your menu's, help systems, dialog
>boxes, etc are all in Japanese.
Now if you just got a Mac, you would be able to use whatever language you
want, when you want it, at full functionality. Log in with one user, you
got a full Japanese, type in Indian and Swedish in that same system too,
click again, you've got an English system. No Windows B.S.
Don Kirkman
<k7b5309jdb5d1mlc8...@4ax.com>:
What IME settings did you use, Raj? The last time I tried to input
Japanese without applocale I was able to enter Japanese into a box that
came up over the top of Agent's composition window, but I couldn't
transfer it into the window area itself--it always came up as a string
of question marks that won't resolve in JWPce.
I've just downloaded applocale and need to configure it, I guess. It
looks like that may take a while, but if you're not having problems I
guess should be okay. Any suggestions or clues that might prevent
disaster?
From what I read on MS's site MUI isn't available for individual users.
Do you find it works as advertised?
Raj Feridun
Yeah, but then you'd have a Mac.
Raj Feridun
wrote:
>>I have the WinXP MUI here as well but I never really got up the energy
>>to bother with it. I also only run 2 or 3 Japanese native apps on my
>>U.S. English XP.
>
>What IME settings did you use, Raj? The last time I tried to input
>Japanese without applocale I was able to enter Japanese into a box that
>came up over the top of Agent's composition window, but I couldn't
>transfer it into the window area itself--it always came up as a string
>of question marks that won't resolve in JWPce.
Hey, Don. Yes, I was getting the question marks too until I configured
Agent 2.0 to run in Nihongo mode with Applocale. After that entering
the Japanese text worked properly. It's not perfect though and I have
other problems when I run the program with Applocale. For example, all
of the help screens become invisible and unusable. So for the moment I
run Agent without Applocale by default and I will just start it WITH
on the odd occasion I need to enter Japanese text in here.
>I've just downloaded applocale and need to configure it, I guess. It
>looks like that may take a while, but if you're not having problems I
>guess should be okay. Any suggestions or clues that might prevent
>disaster?
Applocale is a piece of cake. Just point it to whatever app you want
to run in Japanese mode and also tell it to create a shortcut for
future use. Be aware that Applocale does not put that shortcut on the
desktop but rather in the start menu under Applocale. I just drag and
drop it from there to the desktop.
>From what I read on MS's site MUI isn't available for individual users.
>Do you find it works as advertised?
I got the MUI CD from a friend. It does indeed work as advertised. A
quick logoff and logon will put the computer in full Japanese mode
with all Japanese menus, etc. But it is way more than I need.
Applocale fit the bill for me. I have a few select Japanese apps I run
occasionally and then a few non-Japanese apps that I sometimes want to
enter Japanese text into (like Agent).
Raj
necoandjeff
news:8kv730d0bsoq24h5m...@4ax.com...
Raj, people who have trouble understanding computers think that's a good
thing.
Jeff
Dale Walker
wrote:
>It seems to me I heard somewhere that Raj Feridun wrote in article
><k7b5309jdb5d1mlc8...@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:57:55 +0900, Raj Feridun
>><rfe...@NOSPAMyahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>
>>>日本語入力テスト。I am using Applocale with Agent 2.0. Let's see if it
>>>hangs when I try to exit.
>
>>A quick followup: no hang on exit. Everything worked out perfectly.
>
>>I have the WinXP MUI here as well but I never really got up the energy
>>to bother with it. I also only run 2 or 3 Japanese native apps on my
>>U.S. English XP.
>
>What IME settings did you use, Raj? The last time I tried to input
>Japanese without applocale I was able to enter Japanese into a box that
>came up over the top of Agent's composition window, but I couldn't
>transfer it into the window area itself--it always came up as a string
>of question marks that won't resolve in JWPce.
Before I start, It doesn't work with Agent 1.93, only 2.0 but I see
you're running that...
First you have to tell applocale that you want Agent to run in
Japanese mode.
First create an applocale shortcut (using the applocale wizard) so
that applocale can do it's thing with Agent 2.0...
Then, my settings in Display:fonts are...
Header bars : MS PGothic (S-Jis)
Browser : Arial
Status : MS SanSerif
Then in the specific language section for Japanese it's...
Var Pitch Body: MS PGothic (S-JIS)
Fix Pitch Body: MS Gothic (S-JIS)
Message List : MS PGothic (S-JIS)
Subject : MS PGothic (S-JIS)
Printer : MS PMincho (S-JIS)
As I said, it all works fine when creating and posting the emails but
when I try to empty the trash, Agent hangs. Unfortunately Agent
empties the trash on exit so the result is that Agent will hang on
exit.
>I've just downloaded applocale and need to configure it, I guess. It
>looks like that may take a while, but if you're not having problems I
>guess should be okay. Any suggestions or clues that might prevent
>disaster?
>
>From what I read on MS's site MUI isn't available for individual users.
>Do you find it works as advertised?
Yes. It works fine. No crashes, not too many glitches. e.g. Java
updates seem to be in Japanese now regardless of which system font I'm
in though.
My other PC (the one the rest of the household uses) has the MUI and
has a dual setup (one Brazilian user, one Japanese user and me. I hope
the license entitles me (as IT support guy for a translation company I
work for) to install it on my PC though.
Personally though, there's only three apps on my main machine I need
the system font set to Japanese to get them to work, so applocale is a
far better solution.
Raj Feridun
wrote:
>As I said, it all works fine when creating and posting the emails but
>when I try to empty the trash, Agent hangs. Unfortunately Agent
>empties the trash on exit so the result is that Agent will hang on
>exit.
Ah well that explains why I didn't experience these hangs. I don't use
the trash feature in Agent. I have it set to just immediately and
permanently delete as Agent did in the per 1.9x days when there was no
trash box.
Dale Walker
Now if I just got a Mac, I'd have to spend a bazillion bucks getting
it up to the speed and capability of my PC.
If I just got a Mac, I'd have to completely change my preferred way of
working, to a system that I find restricting and too inflexible.
If I just got a Mac, I'd spend months and years finding software that
did the things that I want at a price I could afford (if the software
existed in the first place).
If I just got a Mac, I'd be at the whim of one company who's idea of
'taste' is bright, transparent cheap bits of old plastic that in less
than two years now needs replacing because it looks far too dated and
you can't replace any of the parts.
Trouble is with all that though is that I have got a Mac.
I use it two or three times a week for creating music and doing the
odd spot of development work.
Despite that, I still far prefer a PC for pretty much any task you
care to mention.
Raj Feridun
wrote:
>>I have the WinXP MUI here as well but I never really got up the energy
>>to bother with it. I also only run 2 or 3 Japanese native apps on my
>>U.S. English XP.
>
>What IME settings did you use, Raj? The last time I tried to input
>Japanese without applocale I was able to enter Japanese into a box that
>came up over the top of Agent's composition window, but I couldn't
>transfer it into the window area itself--it always came up as a string
>of question marks that won't resolve in JWPce.
Hey, Don. Yes, I was getting the question marks too until I configured
Agent 2.0 to run in Nihongo mode with Applocale. After that entering
the Japanese text worked properly. It's not perfect though and I have
other problems when I run the program with Applocale. For example, all
of the help screens become invisible and unusable. So for the moment I
run Agent without Applocale by default and I will just start it WITH
on the odd occasion I need to enter Japanese text in here.
>I've just downloaded applocale and need to configure it, I guess. It
>looks like that may take a while, but if you're not having problems I
>guess should be okay. Any suggestions or clues that might prevent
>disaster?
Applocale is a piece of cake. Just point it to whatever app you want
to run in Japanese mode and also tell it to create a shortcut for
future use. Be aware that Applocale does not put that shortcut on the
desktop but rather in the start menu under Applocale. I just drag and
drop it from there to the desktop.
>From what I read on MS's site MUI isn't available for individual users.
>Do you find it works as advertised?
I got the MUI CD from a friend. It does indeed work as advertised. A
Don Kirkman
>On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:45:08 -0800, Don Kirkman <spamb...@covad.net>
>wrote:
>>What IME settings did you use, Raj? The last time I tried to input
>>Japanese without applocale I was able to enter Japanese into a box that
>>came up over the top of Agent's composition window, but I couldn't
>>transfer it into the window area itself--it always came up as a string
>>of question marks that won't resolve in JWPce.
>Hey, Don. Yes, I was getting the question marks too until I configured
>Agent 2.0 to run in Nihongo mode with Applocale. After that entering
>the Japanese text worked properly. It's not perfect though and I have
>other problems when I run the program with Applocale. For example, all
>of the help screens become invisible and unusable. So for the moment I
>run Agent without Applocale by default and I will just start it WITH
>on the odd occasion I need to enter Japanese text in here.
Thanks, Raj. Big help - I'll forge ahead.
Don Kirkman
>On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:45:08 -0800, Don Kirkman <spamb...@covad.net>
>wrote:
>>What IME settings did you use, Raj? The last time I tried to input
>>Japanese without applocale I was able to enter Japanese into a box that
>>came up over the top of Agent's composition window, but I couldn't
>>transfer it into the window area itself--it always came up as a string
>>of question marks that won't resolve in JWPce.
>Before I start, It doesn't work with Agent 1.93, only 2.0 but I see
>you're running that...
>First you have to tell applocale that you want Agent to run in
>Japanese mode.
>First create an applocale shortcut (using the applocale wizard) so
>that applocale can do it's thing with Agent 2.0...
Thanks for the details, Dale. I'll watch for the trash feature, and
since I'm in Agent 2.0 shouldn't have any other problems.
Don Kirkman
<s34a30pok5m0q8dte...@4ax.com>:
Raj, Dale - it works fine for me with applocale. My Trash Bin is set to
purge at closing, and no apparent problems. I wouldn't have expected
the Trash function to change between Agent 1.93 and 2.0, although with
the port to wxWindows there's no guarantee all functionality was
preserved.
Anyhoo, it seems that it may be either a 1.93/2.0 inconsistency or
something specific to your system, Dale.
Now that I've got it working my remaining major problem is training the
henkan to avoid some of the ridiculous guesses for kanji.
I also have a font issue now, since Agent seems to think that Fixed
System is exclusively a Japanese font--that's probably in my system and
not in Agent itself since I saw several unexpected font changes after I
did some system maintenance and installed applocale..
Bob Biggs8
>
>
>
> --
> jonathan
> Let me now ask straight - do you want the MUI?
If he doesn't want the MUI can I get a copy of it? It sounds like just what
I need. I'm running XP home and using a few Japanese Aps..like my printer
and it always comes up in ????????????...So if you could help me out I'd be
thrilled.
Regards
Jimmy
Gabriel
> If he doesn't want the MUI can I get a copy of it? It sounds like just what
> I need. I'm running XP home and using a few Japanese Aps..like my printer
> and it always comes up in ????????????...So if you could help me out I'd be
> thrilled.
>
> Regards
>
> Jimmy
Actually if you use only 2 or 3 apps in japanese and 10 or 20 in your
default locale your best option is applocale.
http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/apploc.mspx
the only bug i encountered is that the MSI installer is always in SJIS
after i ran a couple of apps in japanese, my XP is in Spanish so all
accents appear as kanji in installers based on MSI after that.
But Yahoo! Japan Messenger works fine and i can search in japanese on
WinMX now.
HTH, Gabriel
mr.sumo snr.
news:de7f64a9.04022...@posting.google.com...
Yeah - to be fair I actually DON'T think the MUI would sort you out - well
it would, but it'd be overkill plus the fact that it needs XPee Pro to
function.
Try this - assuming that support for East Asian languages has already been
installed.
start, control panel, regional and language options, advanced, under
"language for non-Unicode programs" select Japanese. Apply, exit and
restart.
Now I'm assuming that these options exist on XPee Home - I don't know 'coz
I've never used it B4.
Let us know if that solves your menu display problems. BTW this will make
the Japanese IME menu appear in Japanese.
Err...like if you still want to talk about the MUI mail me at
fj...@jonasan.jp
Sryn
A Jpn Emb official recently asked me how they can make the locally bought
English-based XP PC to have Japanese menus and help files. I searced the
web that time and MS pointed me to the Jpn MUI, which can't be downloaded.
Now, opportunity seems to be beckoning. If it is possible, can I download
the MUI CD off you, Mr. Sumo snr., so I can try out this solution to the
official?
Thank you in advance.
Sryn
sr...@yahoo.DELETETHIS.com
mr.sumo snr.
news:c1d1e5$1hn2tq$1...@ID-162600.news.uni-berlin.de...
It would appear to be being seeded at the following location:
http://www.torrentreactor.net/torrents/download_3027
David Chien
Sryn
----- Original Message -----
From: "mr.sumo snr." <mr_...@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: fj.life.in-japan,sci.lang.japan
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: Japanese Windows Home XP
> "Sryn" <google...@google.com> wrote in message
> news:c1d1e5$1hn2tq$1...@ID-162600.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > A Jpn Emb official recently asked me how they can make the locally
bought
> > English-based XP PC to have Japanese menus and help files. I searced
the
> > web that time and MS pointed me to the Jpn MUI, which can't be
downloaded.
> > Now, opportunity seems to be beckoning. If it is possible, can I
download
> > the MUI CD off you, Mr. Sumo snr., so I can try out this solution to the
> > official?
> >
> > Thank you in advance.
> >
> >
>
> It would appear to be being seeded at the following location:
> http://www.torrentreactor.net/torrents/download_3027
>
>
>
> --
> jonathan
> --
> "Never give a gun to ducks"
Thanks for the link but it seems that either Musoyama-san was offline or I
don't know how to operate the torrent download. I looked but there's no
explanation on how to open the .torrent file. Any hints/help greatly
appreciated. Thanks again.
Sryn
sr...@yahoo.DELETETHIS.com
mr.sumo snr.
You've been mailed.