Something I didn't understand [EVA Series and Movies]
Maeglin
During the serie (+ movies) we are presented three kind of endings:
1) An angel comes in physical contact with Adam
2) Gendou Ikari with embryo of Adam in his body (hand) comes in contact with
Lilith
3) EVA01 (with S2 engine inside) becomes a new deity by merging with Lilith
All kind of endings bring to the 3rd Impact, but what is the difference? And
what are the three post 3rd Impact scenarios?
And finally:
4) What should had happened if the Seele had not loose the lance of
Longinus? Why this was not indispensable (to do what)?
5) The 3rd Impact happened in the film, is the same wanted by the Seele? If
not what was wrong for Seele?
6) Why EVA 05 killed themself trapassing their own core with simil-lance of
Longinus? That is, why EVA 05 had to die?
7) At the end of the serie EVA 01 is a deity (fruit of knowledge [soul of
Yui] and fruit of Life [S2 engine]: what this implies? And why EVA 01 have
to merge with
Adam-Lilith to do 3rd Impact?
8) If the soul of Lilith is in Rei (that is "is Rei") how is it possible
that Lilith awaken and speak mentally with Rei when she approches Lilith?
Finished.
Thank you.
Bye
ten/mark
There are several different scenarios for Third Impact depending on how it
is triggered, who or what is at the center, etc. - Seele's desire was to
merge mankind into an Eva and use it as an ark to ascend to heaven. Adam +
the Lance were their original choice to trigger impact, but losing the lance
changed their tools - They wanted an empty Eva (without human soul) to be at
the center so there would be no deviation from their control. The Eva series
felt a dead Auska and Unit 1 would be a reasonable substitute. Seele is a
death cult and the death of mankind is an acceptable final outcome to them.
However, even when Shinji and Unit 1 become the center, Selle still rejoices
at the end of mankind as it is currently structured. Ultimately they come to
accept Third Impact, even though it does not meet their goals. Although it
wasn't their original scenario, it was acceptable to them.* The Lance could
regenerate an angel and in their scenario could be used to trigger their
desired Third Impact - the loss of the Lance meant they had to substitute
the empty Eva and the Eva series for Adam and the Lance.
*When Lorrenz dies you notice that he was filled with wires and devices,
presumably these kept him alive for centuries. I have seen it speculated
that Kiel was the wandering Jew of legend, cursed to live forever until the
messiah returns. I am not sure if this is Anno's intent (still waiting for
Anno to finish the damn manga!), but it would make his justification for
Kiel wanting Third Impact to kill off the human race as reasonable.
Gendo saw the human race as a flawed but independent creation. Internally,
the flaw of mankind is it's separation from others. His vision was to merge
with Adam/Rei/Lillith and guide third impact with his own vision of mankind
reborn (living and dead) merging their souls. Man would be reborn in almost
identical form, but with the living and dead able to communicate (and
various people merged at their cored - this is what Shinji saw when he was
absorbed by his Eva - he could be merged with Misato/rei and Ausaka. At
theior core they would be merged, but could still exist as separate people,
The irony here is that Gendo is more isolated from the human race than
anyone else - a bad role model to base the new human race on! Then again, he
expected to be merged with Yuo after third Impact and that was enough for
him.
To the angels, the human race is actually a flawed form of angel and was not
worth saving - however, Kaworu decided that Shinji was the human best suited
to decide the outcome of third impact.Angel Kaworu (actually "Tabris") could
have wiped everything out without recreating the human race, but chose not
to. Rei/Kowaru/Lillith left it to Shinji to decide the outcome of Third
Impact. there is a lot of speculation about this. I believe that Rei is
saying that Shinji chooses an open reality. Humans could eventually choose
to exist again, they will be able to return to the world. The potential for
both joy and pain will exist.
The Eva series is based on a core engine using Kaworu as the core. The Eva
series kill themselves as part of the ritual required to trigger third
impact.
Think of Eva as a form of a god. Not The God, but an important one. Eva
ultimately represents the immortality of mankind.
Lillith has been inert although with the lance it had regenerated somewhat.
I don't know if you can really say Lillith was alive in any sense that is
understandable, but I guess I see your point. All Humans came from Lillith
so whoever merges with it would be coming home. In another sense, Rei was a
composite clone and Lillith was part of her original material. The "welcome
home" may also be part of the ritual required for Rei/Lillith to ascend.
My opinion and welcome to it.
ten/mark
"Maeglin" <maeglin...@tiscali.it> wrote in message
news:7Wcsb.7215$ZH3....@tornado.fastwebnet.it...
wing
now this has explained to me some stuff i didn't know ^^''''''''''''''''
"ten/mark" <tenc...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Vhesb.20620$oB3.1773@lakeread03...
Amani
I certainly can't explain everything in EoE, but I can attempt at some
things.
> During the serie (+ movies) we are presented three kind of endings:
> 1) An angel comes in physical contact with Adam
That would be the BAD 3rd Impact which would involve mankind being
destroyed, yadda yadda yadda.
> 2) Gendou Ikari with embryo of Adam in his body (hand) comes in contact
with
> Lilith
This would be the GOOD 3rd Impact, under the control of Gendou.
> 3) EVA01 (with S2 engine inside) becomes a new deity by merging with
Lilith
This is also a good 3rd Impact, but under the control of Shinji (in
Unit-01).
> 4) What should had happened if the Seele had not loose the lance of
> Longinus? Why this was not indispensable (to do what)?
I'm not quite sure, but I'm pretty sure it has something to do with them
initiating 3rd Impact so that they'd be in control of it.
> 5) The 3rd Impact happened in the film, is the same wanted by the Seele?
If
> not what was wrong for Seele?
I don't think it was their plan. They had planned to initiate it to be in
control of it.
EoE's a rough subject. I hope I helped where I could. ^_^;;
----------
Taryn : http://taryn.shirataki.net
Amani
> presumably these kept him alive for centuries. I have seen it speculated
> that Kiel was the wandering Jew of legend, cursed to live forever until
the
> messiah returns. I am not sure if this is Anno's intent (still waiting for
> Anno to finish the damn manga!)
Do note that Anno isn't the author of the manga. Sadamoto is.
----------
Taryn : http://taryn.shirataki.net
ten/mark
ten/mark
abashed!
"Amani" <am...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vr48o1f...@corp.supernews.com...
Maeglin
> There are several different scenarios for Third Impact depending on how it
> is triggered, who or what is at the center, etc. - Seele's desire was to
> merge mankind into an Eva and use it as an ark to ascend to heaven. Adam +
> the Lance were their original choice to trigger impact
This means that, for Seele, merge mankind all together is "Heaven", right?
So they want Eva01 (with S2 engine, so a deity) instead of an Angel or
Lilith for triggering 3rd impact. This is because they think
they can control EVA01, right?
> , but losing the lance
> changed their tools - They wanted an empty Eva (without human soul) to be
at
> the center so there would be no deviation from their control. The Eva
series
> felt a dead Auska and Unit 1 would be a reasonable substitute. Seele is a
> death cult and the death of mankind is an acceptable final outcome to
them.
> However, even when Shinji and Unit 1 become the center, Selle still
rejoices
> at the end of mankind as it is currently structured. Ultimately they come
to
> accept Third Impact, even though it does not meet their goals. Although it
> wasn't their original scenario, it was acceptable to them.* The Lance
could
> regenerate an angel and in their scenario could be used to trigger their
> desired Third Impact - the loss of the Lance meant they had to substitute
> the empty Eva and the Eva series for Adam and the Lance.
OK.
At the end, Rei/Lilith was not in their plain.....
so how they can cause 3rd impact without Adam (or surrogate) and Lilith (or
surrogate), just only with EVA01 deity (with a human soul)
and EVA05 (simil angel, no soul but with S2)
And a new question? What is the S2 engine in the EVA05? Is original or an
artificial one?
> Gendo saw the human race as a flawed but independent creation. Internally,
> the flaw of mankind is it's separation from others. His vision was to
merge
> with Adam/Rei/Lillith and guide third impact with his own vision of
mankind
> reborn (living and dead) merging their souls. Man would be reborn in
almost
> identical form, but with the living and dead able to communicate (and
> various people merged at their cored - this is what Shinji saw when he was
> absorbed by his Eva - he could be merged with Misato/rei and Ausaka.
So Misato, Yui, etc are still "alive". If so, when Shinji (in the end)
re-separe the souls of mankind, a could have bring back them to life.
Why not?
Final question: what happened, after all, to EVA01? Now is a deity (soul +
S2), what will be its desiny?
Thank you again
ten/mark
It's not that Misato and Yui are alive - they are in a state where they
have that potential - all people do (hopefully penguins too!). Shinji's
rejection of Human Instrumentality in Third Impact means that there is no
set design for the human race. Gendo, Seele, etc. all were looking to mold
the future - these are arrogant people, taking it upon themselves to decide
the future for all people!. Since Shinji is at the core of Third impact, the
design is up to him - (remember Shinji is extremely depressed - he almost
chooses death and an end to all mankind to avoid lonliness and pain).
However, in the end he creates "choice". Yui and the others can return
(according to Rei), if they choose to - it's an open ended future - each
person can create choose life if they desire but they have to be willing to
accept an uncertain, unplanned existence - to choose life will mean the
possibility (a certainty!) of pain, loneliness, etc. I don't think Yui will
choose to live again - you see her floating away from Shinji near the end of
Third Impact - I think Shinji understands that this is her farewell to him
(just my opinion).
Eva 1 - this has always troubled me. If I undwerstand Yui, Eva 1 has
transended existence and at some level becomes the Noah's ark that Lorrenz
imagined. but instead of asending to higher plain of existence (heaven), Eva
1 moves through space carrying the souls of human race - its a form of
imortality for the race- Eva 1 and the memory/souls of man will exist
forever.
ten/mark
"Maeglin" <maeglin...@tiscali.it> wrote in message
news:4USsb.3247$9k3....@tornado.fastwebnet.it...
[DFC]cOwMoO
I was under the impression Unit-01 had only the soul of Yui inside while
floating through the universe, after all it is mentioned that "Although it
will be very lonely, it will go on living as an everlasting reminder of the
existance of humans" or something to that effect.
cOwMoO
ten/mark
when you see the Eva she was doing the test on it was not the same headpeice
as Unit 1 (I believe it was one of the Eva skelletons in terminal dogma).
She may exist in unit one because that is Shinji's, but then how was Auska's
mom in Eva 2?
I think she is in the durac sea and is able to access unit one and possibly
others - but I wont bet on it.
My translation of Yui's speech leads me to beleive that the souls of all
mankind will be carried in it - in another sense it could be "the soul of
mankind" -
Anyone have other thoughts?
ten/mark
"[DFC]cOwMoO" <cow...@bikerider.com> wrote in message
news:bp7tij$459$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
[DFC]cOwMoO
> Maybe Yui was in unit 1, but I dont think she is confined to it. Remember,
> when you see the Eva she was doing the test on it was not the same
headpeice
> as Unit 1 (I believe it was one of the Eva skelletons in terminal dogma).
The eva she was doing the test in when the 'accident' occured WAS unit-01,
unless I'm mistaken.
> She may exist in unit one because that is Shinji's, but then how was
Auska's
> mom in Eva 2?
She apparently lost her soul in en experiment with unit-02, while working a
Gehirn, causing her to fall into derpression, insanity and eventually death
by her own hand.
The real question is what soul if any, is inside unit-00?
> I think she is in the durac sea and is able to access unit one and
possibly
> others - but I wont bet on it.
Are you referring to the Dirac sea that the 14th(??) angel consisted of? If
so I don't see how it is connected in any way. However if you are referring
to the sea of LCL (I believe it is called Tentai or something similar) then
Yui would not be able to 'access' unit-01, as it does not form part of the
sea.
Maeglin
but Lillith'soul (an angel's soul).
So Rei is the only key necessary to activate unit00.
But now something has raised into mind:
what about Adam's soul? We see his "body", but its soul?
[DFC]cOwMoO
> > The real question is what soul if any, is inside unit-00?
> I think EVA00 doesn't need a soul, because Rei's soul is not a human soul
> but Lillith'soul (an angel's soul).
> So Rei is the only key necessary to activate unit00.
Perhaps she can activate it in the same was Kaworu?
> But now something has raised into mind:
> what about Adam's soul? We see his "body", but its soul?
Wouldn't it be inside?
cOwMoO
Allan Matthews
maeglin...@tiscali.it says...
> > The real question is what soul if any, is inside unit-00?
> I think EVA00 doesn't need a soul, because Rei's soul is not a human soul
> but Lillith'soul (an angel's soul).
> So Rei is the only key necessary to activate unit00.
However, with the cross-activation test we also see that Shinji can
activate Unit-00.
allan
--
allan_matthews[at]bigfoot[dot]com
=========================================
"And the real lesson of the story?
Don't leave things in the fridge."
=========================================
http://allan.matthews.name
Maeglin
"[DFC]cOwMoO" <cow...@bikerider.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:bpfq7h$c9$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>
> "Maeglin" <maeglin...@tiscali.it> wrote in message
> news:XcGub.10732$9k3....@tornado.fastwebnet.it...
> > > The real question is what soul if any, is inside unit-00?
> > I think EVA00 doesn't need a soul, because Rei's soul is not a human
soul
> > but Lillith'soul (an angel's soul).
> > So Rei is the only key necessary to activate unit00.
>
> Perhaps she can activate it in the same was Kaworu?
>
> > But now something has raised into mind:
> > what about Adam's soul? We see his "body", but its soul?
>
> Wouldn't it be inside?
>
Hmmm, but Adam (as an embryo) is merged with Gendou (in his hand).
Well, these are the possibilities:
- Gendou has 2 souls (his and Adam's). So merged or separated?
- Gendou's body remain "separated" (but merged) from Adam's embryo filled
with its soul. Plausible
- Merged Adam's embryo is soul-less. So, what about its soul?