NERV vs SEELE
Galaga '88
what SEELE's goals were. Obviously Gendou was using NERV to achieve human
instrumentality and be reunited with Yui, but SEELE seemed to want .. Third
Impact which was the same thing? Different somehow? A friend of mine after
watching EoE postulated that they were trying to fulfill prophecy of the
dead sea scrolls, and purge humanity to get a 'fresh start', and recreate
god in Unit-01 (Who had to stand-in for Adam).
Or something. Any thoughts?
Frank White
Gendo and SEELE want the same thing: Instrumentality.
But they each want to be the one to CONTROL Instrumentality.
And there can only be one.
FW
Ramandu
>Gendo and SEELE want the same thing: Instrumentality.
>
>But they each want to be the one to CONTROL Instrumentality.
>
>And there can only be one.
But if SEELE wanted control over Instrumentality, why was so much of it left up
to the control of Shinji?
--R.--
Bru
one being. I'm not sure why the rest of Seele wanted this (other than
humans suck), but I know that Keal (sp?) was the wondering Jew, damned to
eternal humanity. His only way to escape from this was human
instrumentality.
Now, my *PERSONAL* belief is that instrumentality was also supposed to
be escape from the Will of God. If Seele had had it their way, THEY would
have controlled the 3rd impact, and created any reality they wanted, whether
it be to become gods themselves or whathaveyou. Gendou, under the guise of
pretending to aid Seele, wanted to control the 3rd impact himself, in order
to get Yui back.. to create HIS own new reality. Basically, Seele's 3rd
impact was completely different from Gendou.
In the end, it seems that it was all up to Rei. As you know, Rei
regected Gendou and gave control of the 3rd impact to Shinji.. and look
what he did with it..
So, that's basically my explanation. Take it or leave it.
"Galaga '88" <no...@nospam.net> wrote in message
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Sam Reeves
"Bru" <mbr...@rcn.com> wrote in message
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>> In the end, it seems that it was all up to Rei. As you know, Rei
> regected Gendou and gave control of the 3rd impact to Shinji.. and look
> what he did with it..
Yeh! he screwed em all over!
bet none of their fantasies involved being turned into warm orange goo!
imagine: mwahaha! I shall lord over you all! for I am GOO! and my will is
indometable!
SAM
Diamon
<Spoiler Alert, just in case>
Ok everyone else is taking their shot, so I'll take mine. I've just started
re-watching the whole series for the first time (subbed this time first time
was dubbed) so bear with me if I've missed some things.
SEELE and Gendo don't really want the same thing. They seek two different
things but the human instrumentality project is the common means to the two
different ends.
Gendo seeks instrumentality to be reunited with Yui, that one's
straightforward. It is also a plus (but not his goal) that he then gets to
exist in a world without the pain of separation with the rest of the world.
Given his reaction to losing Yui, his fear of losing people is even stronger
than that of Shinji. So this is a good thing for him, but it wasn't his
primary goal.
SEELE seeks human instrumentality because they have the hopes that many
religious believers do. They seek the perfect world of unity with the
creator. Essentially one-ness with god. Which actually makes their goal a
somewhat noble one, they are seeking something which will lead all human
beings being one with god not just their selves.
Now where things get confusing to me is how SEELE through NERV have
controlled third impact and prevented the angels from being the creatures
that carry on and put humans in the place of continuation.
What do we know? Third impact ( or it's surrogate event if you want to
consider the angel only version as the true third impact ) occurs after Adam
( via Gendo's arm that Rei stole ) are reunited. Meanwhile the MP EVA's (
which contains clones on Kaoru in the dummy plugs ) form the tree of life
using EVA-01 in place of Adam ( since EVA-01 is a clone of Adam, but the
trick is it also contains one of the Lilim, Shinji ). The Lace of Longinus
is returned and pierces the core of EVA-01. At which point Fuyutsuki
comments "The Fruit of Life is held by the Angels. The Fruit of Wisdom is
held by man. Eva Unit 01 now posses them both, and, therefor becomes God."
We know from the comments from SEELE that Shinji's ego ( presumably the
portion of the mind that contains the concept of self and singularity ) must
be destroyed. Which if Shinji had accepted human instrumentality third
impact ( or retribution as SEELE called it ) would have happened. And at
that point all of humanity we be one with one another, and presumably god.
And we would exist in what many people would call an afterlife. A life
without pain, in the presence ( or as part of in this case ) the creator.
But how would third impact have had to occur for the angels to continue on
in our place? We know the angels were after Adam but they didn't seem to
know of Lilith, so her role becomes suspect as to if it was essential for
third impact. We know that Adam ( EVA-01 ) + Lilith ( Rei ) + Tabris ( MP
Dummy plugs ) + Humanity ( Shinji ) = God, but which were truly required?
And is there any significance to the true form of the MP EVA's being that of
Rei/Lilith? We know EVA-01 were crated from Adam, were the MP EVA's created
from Lilith, and if so is that part of the equation? If the necessary
ingredients ( for God ) are life and wisdom where would the wisdom have come
from for third impact without human instrumentality? Or do the ingredients
stay the same and just how they are obtained change?
The other thing that bothered me a bit after watching EoE the first time is
this. If third retribution/impact does lead to one-ness with the creator,
the did Shinji do the right thing? I assume Anno would say yes, but many
people of faith throughout the world would say no, I believe. Shinji
essentially rejects God, heaven and the afterlife in preference for the
separation of what he knows as life. What many have sought for so long
Shinji on his own rejects, and rejects it not only for himself but for all
mankind.
Any comments?
Kakarotto
Diamon
to www.evaotaku.com I go.
"Kakarotto" <kaka...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
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Frank White
rama...@aol.comnojunk says...
Because Gendo planned better than SEELE and he was the one who
set things up and triggered Instrumentality. Unfortunately for
Gendo, what he DIDN'T plan on was Rei III realizing she wasn't
a doll; and it was HER decision as to who would control
Instrumentality.
She chose Shinji.
Had SEELE's forces managed to reach and kill Shinji before
Rei made her choice, it is hard to say what would have
happened.
Fortunately - I guess - Misato prevented that.
FW
Bru
I think I remember that the Lance of Longenus had to do with the creation of
Unit 1.. And just whose blood was last on the tip of that spear?
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Triple W
<alaka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I thought he was leaving it up to themselves whether or not they wanted
to reform into humans. He obviously did it first, and Asuka did it
shortly after, but his rage boiled over and choked her semi-comatose
body. (probably that way since that's the way she was as the Rei/Lilith
shadows collected everyone)
It would've been nice to see a couple (days/months/years) later.
Imagine no one else reformed, and Shinji is defiling Asuka's corpse, or
a lot of people reformed, but Shinji is disappointed since Misato
didn't and wasn't able to fulfill her promise to 'do the rest
afterward,' the possibilities are endless.
--
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Bobby Heenan
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